Under the White Coat: Dr Amber’s Update
- Luna Robbie
- Aug 13, 2024
- 49 min read
40s solo-poly cis woman, she/her pronouns, private practice physician, writer, sexual health advocate, educator, into: power exchange, feminine domination, deep psychological healing, conscious relationship design
🔗 DR AMBER LINKS | Under the White Coat
00:00:00:01 - 00:00:31:05
Luna
This is a special past guest update episode, and our guest today is a solo poly private practice physician and writer in her 40s. She is a passionate advocate and educator on the intersection of sexual health as a vital element in overall integrative health. And current turn ons include power exchange, harnessing feminine domination as a means of deep psychological healing, and supporting others in crafting a life of wellness, both physical and relational, including understanding conscious relationship design, which you can read about on her Substack.
00:00:31:11 - 00:00:39:19
Luna
Under the White Coat. Originally a guest on episode 224 erotic audacity, wellness and Luxury. Welcome back, doctor Amber Hall.
00:00:39:21 - 00:00:46:12
Dr Amber
Thank you so much for having me back with you. And thank you so much for that lovely introduction. I always look forward to our conversations.
00:00:46:12 - 00:01:07:13
Luna
I love talking to you and I. I have learned so much from you, just like both. As we grow our friendship and our kind of like professional parallel isms over the time that I've known you. So could you please start off by telling our sweet listeners and myself today, if you had to rate yourself on a sexual shame, a meter with ten being full of shame and zero being like, I don't have any.
00:01:07:19 - 00:01:13:05
Luna
Where do you fall today? Right now? When if ever, has it fluctuated in the last since I've talked to you?
00:01:13:06 - 00:01:53:12
Dr Amber
So I think it was about a year ago that we first had our first conversation. And I think if I remember correctly, at that point, I probably said to wish, but I would say that that's decreased over the course of the time that we've known one another. In part because some of the things that I've learned from you, but I as probably down to a one at this point, I've gotten much more vocal and upfront about my preferences when it comes to relationship structures, which we'll talk about in conscious relationship design and, and, you know, sort of like expressing my desires in play space and what that looks like.
00:01:53:12 - 00:02:23:22
Dr Amber
And you know what I have to offer other people. And as a result of all of that, as a result of my decreasing shame and like exonerating myself for like holding on to some of these things where it's just like relics from childhood and like bygone era is. Right. The more that I've been upfront and shameless about what I'm interested in, the more people are coming to me to be like, so I want to talk to you, and asking both for personal and professional advice, which is cool.
00:02:24:00 - 00:02:24:22
Dr Amber
That's fun.
00:02:25:00 - 00:02:43:17
Luna
I fucking love that. I love that so much. And I love, you know, in the times that we've hung out in between recordings, I just you are a wealth of knowledge and fun. And I learned so much from just the way that you move through your relationships and the stories that you have told me as a result. So I'm really glad to hear that other people are benefiting from that too.
00:02:43:22 - 00:03:01:22
Luna
I also just I can't tell people like, I just remember because like, I was doing lots of, like research on prostate play and like I have like watched lots of videos. It's not that I have never done it with partners. It's just I haven't had one consistent partner to like, play with their butt over and over and over again.
00:03:02:00 - 00:03:17:04
Luna
And so I just have like a very vivid memory, like I sort of just always think of, like, you pantomiming in the air, like your process for like, but stuff with new partner. So that's like, have you gotten to teach anyone that yet besides me?
00:03:17:06 - 00:03:27:04
Dr Amber
Yes. This is one of my favorite things. But also, Doctor Evan Goldstein, who I admire so much, is a, like, an anal surgeon, less post-surgical.
00:03:27:07 - 00:03:28:09
Luna
He just has a new book.
00:03:28:09 - 00:03:54:00
Dr Amber
I saw him a new book out that's all about anal health. Anal sex and pleasure, like how to explore, how to do it safely, safely, how not to get hurt, how to explore on someone else's body. I actually just started the audiobook this morning. And yes, I have my own technique and experiences, and I've gotten to a point in my personal life where I put that out on the table right up front.
00:03:54:00 - 00:04:39:06
Dr Amber
Like if I am talking with a potential male like lover, playmate, friend with benefits, whatever. Like if they take anal play off the table, I'm basically not interested. And the reason is twofold. Partially because I just love the feeling of popping, right? Like I love when someone hands over to me the experience of just stimulating in a way that provides these like internal rolling waves of pleasure that like, like guys don't have to maintain an erection in order to have an internal orgasm in that way.
00:04:39:06 - 00:05:18:20
Dr Amber
And so taking that off the menu for me is like, like you took a whole array, a whole, like, box of toys that are like, I'm not going to have access to. But the other half of that is that men who allow themselves to experience these things are secure enough in their masculinity that they move through the world with a confidence that I just find magnetic, like, you know, because I think there's kind of this, you know, very sort of like internalized socialized homophobia element where men are like, well, if you play with my bat, that means I'm gay.
00:05:18:22 - 00:05:44:16
Dr Amber
And first of all, there's nothing wrong with being gay or bi. And secondly, like, is your masculinity so fragile that it will shatter if you allow yourself to experience this type of pleasure? Yeah. And so yeah, those two together, like the play itself, is very fulfilling, but also it's just the mindset of a man who allows me to have that and
00:05:44:18 - 00:05:46:15
Dr Amber
Yes.
00:05:46:17 - 00:06:12:14
Luna
I love that. All right. Well we are off to a strong start. I really love hearing the specifics of that. I think you told me a version of that last year or something sometime when we were, I feel like I was in the car with you or something. And I since then have have really paid attention to because I think the other thing that you put on my radar is when I'm with a dude who has had his asshole played with and penetrated, he's a different type of lover on my pussy.
00:06:12:16 - 00:06:54:21
Dr Amber
1,000%, yes, because an asshole and a pussy are very different things. And like, I think mainstream porn has sort of like, really like added fuel to the fire. This whole concept of gaping and like, you know, like anal should be on the menu for everyone, including like, I'm in PTA, work with adolescents and like, there's this, you know, whole generation of women who are coming up, like in the arena of digital porn, where they're just expect like they think that choking is to be expected, or they think that anal is to be expected because we're like people are being educated on sexual health through mainstream porn, which is like, you know, I mean, it's cameras
00:06:54:21 - 00:07:30:04
Dr Amber
and lights and it's it's fake. Right? And so anal penetration and I agree with you that people who have received anal penetration tend to be more thoughtful. They're like, good about getting the engine warmed up. Like that. You know, the increasing like getting all of the blood flow going to where it needs to go. Getting those like little nerve endings turned up the way that they need to be turned up so that the experi is like, you know, you're not just like ramming something into a wall that's not built for that.
00:07:30:06 - 00:07:42:21
Dr Amber
Right? And I agree with you. Like the lovers that I've had who have fun, receptive and like continue to engage in receptive anal penetration are just like they're lights out. Better lovers like enlightened died out.
00:07:43:01 - 00:08:09:14
Luna
Yeah, it's is yummy and it's the different. Yeah. There's essentialism. There's a connective like I think I think there's also like an intimacy piece that I've noticed too, at least in my experiences. Okay. So in as much detail as you feel comfy, what else has your sexual landscape looked like since we talked last? You know, I know you've been working with people, you've been exploring, you've been a little bit more open, but like, tell us whatever highlights you feel comfy to talk about.
00:08:09:16 - 00:08:42:04
Dr Amber
So I think I've gotten much more focused on what it is that I'm looking for. And I have come across a couple of people who have absolutely raised the bar on who gets access to me and I think that those are very good things because like many people, when I sort of started like wading into the world of non-monogamy and, you know, I was sort of brought into the culture through the swinging community, which is very different than the poly community, which is very different from those of us.
00:08:42:06 - 00:09:14:09
Dr Amber
You know, now, I am solely polyamorous. I'm kind of like a free agent doing my own thing. But, you know, I made all of the all of the mistakes that a lot of people make when they first start out over the course of time, I've gotten really dialed in to what is it that I want, you know? And first of all, like if if it's a male playmate saying that they aren't open to receptive anal penetration is almost like a 90%, I'm not going to like, the relationship will remain platonic if those are the terms.
00:09:14:11 - 00:09:48:12
Dr Amber
I also have really been putting, a lot of time, energy, and effort into learning about domination. So I'm currently reading The Loving Dominant. I just got a whole like slew of new toys. I got my first cane. I had one of my like, internet world friends who is a like a leather workers. They're a doctor and they're like vanilla life, but they're a leather worker and they're in their, you know, personal life and sent me like a beautiful handmade flogger, like hand-stitched and got my first paddle.
00:09:48:12 - 00:10:24:00
Dr Amber
I got my first, prostate vibrator that is like remote controlled. So all of the toys that I got in my most recent shipment are all centered around providing pleasure to someone else. So I've been leaning into, you know, tapping and power exchange and like, you know, allowing my power to come from within. Because as it turns out, my dominant side can be facilitated by, you know, people who are there to encourage that.
00:10:24:00 - 00:10:39:06
Dr Amber
But the power doesn't come from them. It comes from within me. And that's where the psychology piece comes in. It's really cool, and it feels like I just opened up a whole new, like level, right? Like, I'm in a new level that I hadn't experienced before. So it's fun.
00:10:39:08 - 00:10:55:19
Luna
That's awesome. What was that evolution like for you? Like, were you were you like, oh, I'm doing more top behaviors. I want to go further. Like, what were you feeling into that kind of like energetic power piece, or was it something that more just naturally unfolded because of the types of partners you've been exploring last?
00:10:55:21 - 00:11:28:18
Dr Amber
I think it really unfolded as more as a result of my professional experience. And I actually wrote an article about this on my Substack that is available for free, called what I Learned About Power Informed on 101. And it talks about the disempowering, sort of like almost like emotional abuse of medical training. Right? Like we are trained to fall in line and even just to get into medical school, you have to convince people that you will fit the mold of what it's expected of a doctor with the social contract.
00:11:28:18 - 00:11:56:01
Dr Amber
And I take the social contract very seriously, and I take exceptionally good care of my patients, and I keep my nose clean. I don't drink like I don't do off color stuff and, you know, run a pill mill or anything like that. But at the same time, like, you know, attending physicians treat trainees, by and large, in a very sort of like, intellectually demeaning, condescending way of life.
00:11:56:03 - 00:12:13:08
Dr Amber
And they're able to sort of leverage like professionalism as a tool of like, if you don't do what I say, how I say it, you know, then we're going to haul you in front of a professionalism committee, and you're going to lose your career and lose the hundreds of thousands of dollars that you've invested in your medical education.
00:12:13:08 - 00:12:41:21
Dr Amber
And so unmarried, disempowered space. And even before I went to medical school, just by virtue of being a young woman who has relatively little power, I sort of fell into a submissive role naturally, like, oh yes, daddy, please. Like, oh, you know, like all of that, like stabby sort of stuff. Not really recognizing that in a true dynamic, the submissive has so much power, right?
00:12:41:22 - 00:12:51:09
Dr Amber
Like, that's the thing is, like, I just was submissive as a personality characteristic, not as a mindful approach to DDS.
00:12:51:11 - 00:12:51:19
Luna
Okay.
00:12:51:20 - 00:13:13:13
Dr Amber
Oh of course of time as I, you know, became an attending physician and was responsible for people's lives and you know, like making decisions and now in a position as, like in business as a CEO, you know, it's my ass. It's on the line. I, I do make the, the decisions and I have power over my own career and all of this.
00:13:13:13 - 00:13:39:02
Dr Amber
They all like everything related to my vanilla life. So like, how do I harness that psychology in a space that allows me to experience all of these fun parts of myself in a very like, mindful, conscientious way? And I'm not talking about, like, beating the shit out of people. Right? Like I'm talking about, like, how do I get into your core values, right?
00:13:39:02 - 00:14:09:15
Dr Amber
Like, how do I identify your North Star and like how you make decisions and like, talk to me about your, your fantasies and like, parts of yourself that you want to explore that you can't access in the vanilla world like those are the things that I want to play, that I want to play with. And it's like, how do we do that in a way that's, you know, conscious and mindful that makes both of us a better, more pure version of who we are.
00:14:09:17 - 00:14:32:08
Dr Amber
Like, it's just ecology, right? It's not about, you know, for me, it's not about bruising people up. Although that's great too. You know, for me it's more about like the psychology of power play and giving the submissive their power because I don't have like, I don't have any power over a submissive that's not relinquishing control to me. And that's an important position.
00:14:32:10 - 00:15:00:13
Luna
Yeah. It's like if the submissive is like me and I'm like, please, can I have a purple bottom next time? Like, that's the maybe I receive the bruises if I'm lucky. But like, if that's not part of the agreement or the ask or the turn on, you know, it's it looks so different for everyone. So it sounds like a lot of the private consulting work, physician work that you have been doing, like, has mixed with your personal life, has led to this.
00:15:00:13 - 00:15:17:21
Luna
Like calling for more far reaching, like wider education. Will you tell us a little bit about. Like what? Like what is your definition of conscious relationship design? Like how are you understanding it? How are you sharing it with people? And then like tell us like, what does a peek under the white coat look like?
00:15:17:23 - 00:15:38:00
Dr Amber
So I think that there's sort of this old way of thinking of like you're either single or partner, right? Like, or or you're divorced and it's like this very old like binary thing. But as with anything in the world, like there is a spectrum of, you know, options, right? Like you don't have to just like it's not just chocolate or vanilla.
00:15:38:00 - 00:16:02:06
Dr Amber
Like you can have strawberries and pineapple and sprinkles and sirup and like whatever you want. And the the idea of conscious relationship design is really sort of my push back against the concept of relationship anarchy. And I'm sort of talking in, you know, non-monogamy terms that I know that you understand, but some of you listeners might not. So solo polyamory is approach to ethical non-monogamy.
00:16:02:06 - 00:16:35:06
Dr Amber
That basically means that I am my own primary partner. I'm not entering relationship with the goal of like finding my soulmate or making one person responsible for meeting all of my, you know, intellectual, social, economic, emotional, financial needs. Right? Like relationship anarchy is more of like a philosophy of, you know, not having a certain set of milestones associated with defining a successful relationship.
00:16:35:08 - 00:17:10:01
Dr Amber
I just don't like the term anarchy, because it's kind of a little bit off putting. And people are like, you know, you're just like coming in and like, you know, wrecking the whole concept of a relationship I think consciously designed for me is a more intentional way of expressing that. Like, you can have what you want in a relationship if you if you want to have a, a primary sort of hierarchical partner and you want to have a couple friends with benefits, you want to have, you know, a few kink people that you see from time to time where you want to be like, I love being a destination girlfriend, right?
00:17:10:01 - 00:17:28:16
Dr Amber
Like, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can have what you want if you ask for it, honestly. And so that's where the conscious thing comes in in relationship to. It's kind of like the difference between buying a dress off of the rack at the store and having one custom made for you.
00:17:28:18 - 00:17:44:06
Luna
Oh, that's such a good analogy because like for some of us, the off the rack dresses fit great. And for some of us it's like this is wrinkly on me. And it's Bunchy here and it's going up my butt crack when it's not supposed to. It's a dress. You know.
00:17:44:08 - 00:18:12:10
Dr Amber
Exactly. And that's not to say that, you know, and I think that there's a little bit of a push back amongst, you know, the monogamous in the world who are like, can you please stop talking about polyamory, like, and how enlightened you are about, like, finding, you know, polyamory, whatever. And for people who choose to be in monogamous relationships, whether it's a decades long, sexually exclusive, monogamous relationship that lasts until someone dies or it's serial monogamy, right.
00:18:12:10 - 00:18:47:00
Dr Amber
Which is far more common if you choose that as a relationship structure that works well for you, then so be it. The point that I would just like to re-emphasize is that that is an option. You know, it is one of many options, and it's okay for me to not want that as an option. And I think like as I've been more out about my non-monogamy more and more, especially women, especially professional women, many doctors are coming to me being like, you know, just coming out of a divorce.
00:18:47:03 - 00:19:04:02
Dr Amber
And I don't really think I want to do anything like that again, or I just want to have my body phase, but I want to do it in a way that's ethical and mindful and not damaging to myself or anyone else in conscious relationship design basically is like a framework for how to do that.
00:19:04:04 - 00:19:04:18
Luna
00:19:04:19 - 00:19:07:15
Dr Amber
And I wrote an article also in my Substack about it.
00:19:07:17 - 00:19:39:04
Luna
Fuck yeah. And again, the Substack that I was being silly, but the name is under the white coat so people can go find it. And we have a link in the description below. But as I hear you speak to for me, I wouldn't necessarily guess that conscious relationship design excludes monogamy. And in fact, based on my experiences talking to people, it seems like the monogamous ones who are in the most satisfied by long term relationships are consciously designing their relationships and or have various phases where they're like, now we're closer.
00:19:39:05 - 00:20:04:13
Luna
Never because we started like talking and like really thinking about what we want to build together, you know? And there's that statistic about how couples who have businesses together, you know, not just the project of unconscious life, family following the pattern that's like said to us through media or TV or whatever we saw our parents do. Like there is a consciousness to the most successful relationships that I know, whether or not they were like approaching it through conscious relationship design.
00:20:04:13 - 00:20:24:20
Luna
So it's like, it's so funny when I hear the sort of like arguments which I realize I'm not around lately because I've sort of like filtered out my little pool. But like, I remember in the very beginning, my dabbling in polyamory, I found myself on dates with people who the whole date would be just like angrily talking about monogamous people.
00:20:24:20 - 00:20:45:02
Luna
And I was like, that's also a huge turnoff for me. You know? I'm like, what? Why are you so focused on this thing that we're not here to do like that? So, yeah. So it's like, you know, I love, I love did you come up with the like, name conscious relationship designer? Is that already in the ether. Like, is that a doctor and.
00:20:45:04 - 00:20:58:08
Dr Amber
Stumbled upon it like out in the wild you're not. I don't know who to give credit for it. I just, you know, I, I had gone along like I'm a solo polyamorous relationship anarchist and people are like, here, what.
00:20:58:10 - 00:20:59:20
Luna
What? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:20:59:22 - 00:21:18:21
Dr Amber
Yeah. With conscious relationship design. I was like that more encapsulates the sort of core tool like put to a core tour and whatever. Like, you know, like the, the custom dress thing, like we were talking about like, well, yeah, that's the word I'm looking for. Like, I want something is made for me and I.
00:21:18:21 - 00:21:20:06
Luna
Get to help design.
00:21:20:08 - 00:21:20:22
Dr Amber
Yeah.
00:21:21:00 - 00:21:42:02
Luna
Yeah. And I also love what you said about relationship anarchy, because I too have always felt a sort of like, but that's because my personal experiences with relationship anarchists self-identified. And I do have a couple of good friends who like love that term, but also like, as a person who has been an accidental rebel her entire life, just by virtue of being accidentally different and trying to figure out why.
00:21:42:02 - 00:22:09:00
Luna
Like, I feel no need to be rebellious, right? Like my existence is accidentally rebellious. So I'm like, no, no, no, I don't. I'm not looking to explode. But no, no, no, I'm just trying to not a good girl because I know I won't be. But like, I just want to be like, come, you know? And I and I have certainly encountered people who use the term both polyamorous and relationship anarchist to mean, like, I'm actually just not going to give a fuck about your feelings, you know?
00:22:09:02 - 00:22:28:09
Luna
And I'm going to do what I want and I'm going to be an asshole about it, you know? So so I that is why I have sometimes been like, red flag. I don't know, you know, and it's, it's that imperfect thing about like, what words do we use to describe what ideas and how much time do we invest in a person getting to know what they actually mean by using those words?
00:22:28:15 - 00:22:44:11
Luna
And then how much does using different sets of words indicate that maybe we're just on different pages in our book or journey or whatever different chapters? I imagine that the people that you are attracting with this work are cool as fuck. What's it been like?
00:22:44:13 - 00:23:14:21
Dr Amber
Yes, largely has been sort of like people coming to me through the wilds of the internet again, like largely professional women, you know, middle age, like mid career successful. I've had, a few, like, married couples who are like, we're interested in this or like, you know, the the wife is like, I'm pretty sure I'm bisexual. Like, how do we begin to open things up to allow me to explore in this space?
00:23:14:21 - 00:23:47:02
Dr Amber
And you know, it just it's it's been really cool. And one of the things that I'll say about, like, medical training is that we're so conditioned to respect privacy, because. Right. Like, I can't just walk into the world and be like so-and-so said, such and such, and they have this and whatever. Like, I can tell stories and I can sort of address topics that come across my radar, sort of, you know, like a relationship and sex advice columnist or whatever.
00:23:47:02 - 00:24:11:06
Dr Amber
But like, I'm had ironclad privacy policies, both with respect to obviously with my patients, but with respect to people who ask me questions and also with my personal teammates. And I will tell you stories about my personal experiences, but you'll you would never like. I will keep the identities of the people that I play with. Veil in a way that you would never identify who they are.
00:24:11:11 - 00:24:43:02
Dr Amber
Yeah. And so I think the the privacy thing allows me to have access to people that have these just like really amazing stories. And, and there's so much vulnerability when you talk to people about this stuff too, right? Like people aren't talking to their doctors about this stuff. And, you know, when you talk about kink play and ways to play safe and anal penetration and, you know, even a lot of doctors aren't comfortable broaching the subject.
00:24:43:02 - 00:25:15:04
Dr Amber
And, you know, especially when it comes to like, receptive anal penetration or, you know, impact play or fire or electricity and all this stuff like, and people have good reason to withhold that information because the medical record is a medical legal document and there are no like with the exception of a couple of municipalities in Massachusetts and in California, there are no legal protections to allow for polyamorous relationships or swinging or kink or what have you.
00:25:15:04 - 00:25:35:10
Dr Amber
So if things begin to go sideways with people's partners or, you know, whatever, and you end up getting hauled in front of a judge, your medical record can be subpoenaed in court and leveraged against you. And so people are apprehensive about talking to their doctors about this for the same reason that sex workers are apprehensive about talking to their doctors about this stuff.
00:25:35:10 - 00:25:55:02
Dr Amber
Right? Because like, you don't want your vulnerable, like your medical vulnerability and your medical questions to be leveraged against you in a way that can result in losing your job or your, you know, kids or your housing or whatever absence I am. So it's like, this is the this is important.
00:25:55:04 - 00:26:19:06
Luna
Yeah, yeah. Oh my God. And as you're saying all of that, I'm like relooking at okay. So I well two things because I, well three things. Which one do I say first? Okay. I was recently talking to a podcast guest about the difficulty that he had in going to talk to various doctors, including specialists you know, about, like, hey, my sex drive is different.
00:26:19:06 - 00:26:35:00
Luna
Here's, you know, the mental stuff, my stress stuff like checking in holistically with them and they're like, yeah, yeah, yeah, here's some Viagra. Like, yeah, here's some. We can do the test. Well you're yeah, you're in the, the fifth percentile. But like it's within the normal range you know. So it's not. And I'm like we don't know how comfortable those people are.
00:26:35:00 - 00:27:00:03
Luna
And then also I was talking to a cool urologist, Doctor Elliot Justin recently who invented a cock ring that we have a special code for. Buy it. And you get 15% off with the sex stories link. I don't know if this is going to come out. I don't know the order, but like, it's just to say that it's really cool because it measures nighttime erections and also hooks and hooks like a bra strap instead of the like squeezy kind where you have to get over the cock so that once you're done, you can just pop it off.
00:27:00:05 - 00:27:25:06
Luna
And so I was talking with him about sex and for doctors, and I know this is something that I've talked about with you before, but like, I, I've been noodling a lot lately. Like, what would not just, like, better sex ed for medical professionals be like, but like, kink ed, you know, because also, I was a few months ago, I was at the gynecologist, like, and it was a new to me gynecologist, my first ever dude, because I was like, I need to get in right now.
00:27:25:06 - 00:27:44:03
Luna
When was my last thing? You know, when I have whatever my health care, it's not like one person. It's a whole I'm with Kaiser, so it's a whole thing. But I was I was there and he was a sweetie pie, like he was my dad's age. He had a daughter my age. It was like good vibes. I also didn't realize that there, like, had to be, like, nurse in the room with us just for, like, visual purposes.
00:27:44:05 - 00:27:59:10
Luna
So he was like, checking me out. I was like, I want to make sure, is this a sebaceous glands thing or is this something I should be worried about? He's like, no, no, no, you're fine, you're fine. You know? And then I had told the nurse who took like my blood pressure and stuff ahead of time, I'm like, oh, just so you know, I have bruises from some, like, kinky play.
00:27:59:10 - 00:28:10:19
Luna
And she's like, okay, okay. But I forgotten to tell him that. And then also when I was like telling him, he's like, we'll get you these sti tests. I was like, oh, no, I was just tested. Like, he's like, are you sure? And I was like, yeah, yeah, I get tested like once a month. And he was like, what?
00:28:10:19 - 00:28:23:00
Luna
He was like once a month. And then I was like, oh, well, I'm a sex worker, so, you know. And then he was, he was really chill and cool about it. And then he did check and he was like, so I just have to ask, is there bruises and domestic blood, which I didn't even realize that stuff could go in my records.
00:28:23:00 - 00:28:40:00
Luna
So now I'm like, Thank God it has kids. I don't have to worry about that because I know some people have had horror story experiences anyway. I don't know if he was cool because Los Angeles, because he's old, he's been around the block. He was like, oh, maybe I should meditate like you. What? I was like, you definitely should, but I'm not preaching.
00:28:40:02 - 00:28:56:21
Luna
But anyway, all of that is to say, I don't know if he got a good sex ed training. I don't know if he, like, is kinky. So, you know, some stuff. I don't know why his vibe was so, like, sweet and comforting and just like, like sweet man. Because he was like, oh, he's like, you're a sex worker and you're not on birth control.
00:28:56:21 - 00:29:18:11
Luna
And he's like, I want to be on birth control. He's like, let's give you some morning after pills just to have on hand. And I was like, cool, you know, so very, very sex positive. But like, as a physician yourself, I would love to hear your dream noodles about what more holistic sex and kink friendly education training we might develop for health care professionals.
00:29:18:13 - 00:29:47:13
Dr Amber
Yeah, I'm actually working on this. And, yeah, so I had the retreat last summer. I'm not planning to have another one, for the foreseeable future, but really, I feel like I found my home on Substack and I published an article last weekend that is an interview between myself and a physician who is a submissive. So the whole is a back and forth about like, how how do you have these conversations?
00:29:47:13 - 00:30:12:06
Dr Amber
Respectfully? How do you make patients feel safe? Like what are some sort of like you know, signals or jewelry and signage like that, tattoos that would indicate that someone is then to display it because like there are certain necklaces or, you know, like the Triskelion, for Bdsm. And how do you ask about bruises in a way that's non accusatory and some of the things that we're talking about.
00:30:12:06 - 00:30:34:12
Dr Amber
And so there are a few doctors who are sort of out in the wilds like teaching good sex education. Kelly Casper is one of them. The You Are Not Broken podcast. And she talks about menopause. She's very sex positive. Even Goldstein is another one. But there's not very many people that I know. What? I think I'm really the only person who's out here like talking about kink education for doctors.
00:30:34:12 - 00:30:54:15
Dr Amber
Like my dream would be to be the doctor who talks to other doctors about how to have conversations with patients about kink and sex work and sex positivity in general, and polyamory specifically. Like, I want to be the doctor who's teaching other doctors, but I want to keep the room open for the public so that they can hear what I'm saying.
00:30:54:15 - 00:31:14:18
Dr Amber
And we were talking before, like, I feel like Substack is a good platform for that because I can also fold in, like, how do you access direct primary care if you don't have insurance as a sex worker? And how do you navigate this system to get cash paid discounts? Or, you know, where do you look for to get discounted prescriptions?
00:31:14:18 - 00:31:48:03
Dr Amber
And like, how do you ask for cash pay pricing if you need imaging? And I've really also started to get into integrative health care. And I'm taking a course right now through the University of Arizona that's all about vitamins and supplements, because like, there are all these snake oil salesmen on the internet who are like, yeah, I'll take this supplement and you'll live forever and like erections, like 15 hours a day, like, you know, and how do I really filter the bullshit from what's true and advocate for patients and doctors in a way that is holistic?
00:31:48:03 - 00:32:11:11
Dr Amber
Because I think that these are all important conversations, especially as the health care infrastructure is being more and more like commercialized and patients are, you know, I don't I don't want to sit at Kaiser and like, have all the stuff on my medical record, but I also don't want to go to like, somebody, you know, who doesn't know what the fuck they're doing or like just by random internet.
00:32:11:11 - 00:32:27:08
Dr Amber
And so I think that there's this like golden opportunity to, you know, both educate and advocate for positive health information, wellness information, integrative health and sexual health, like it's all intertwined.
00:32:27:10 - 00:32:54:08
Luna
In your perfect world, because I know doctors have a fuck ton on their plates already. How would you deliver this information? My brain is always like dreaming about like retreats where people are first luxuriated and then educated and luxuriated in between the educations. But like in your perfect world, like, how would this information get delivered? And then like, how do we address the issue that like shame is still a big stopper, whether someone's a doctor or not?
00:32:54:08 - 00:33:11:16
Luna
Right. Like, I've talked to so many people who are who are self-described as like frozen by shame in many cases. So it's like Eve and then that's like, so even if you're not talking to a kinky doctor, like just the vanilla, there's like the vanilla ones that are cool with sex, but then there's the people that are like, I can't even sex, you know?
00:33:11:16 - 00:33:30:17
Luna
So like, what? What do you imagine would be the best environment or environments? You know, if doctor Amber were given like big unlimited budget and you had a team to kind of carry out this vision of like being the point person for doctor to doctor education and the, you know, general population can sit in on the conversations like, what?
00:33:30:20 - 00:33:32:22
Luna
What would you like it to be like?
00:33:33:00 - 00:33:57:23
Dr Amber
I just love all of the power that you just gave me by, like opening this up to, you know, I if I were given an unlimited budget and unlimited staff to carry this off like I, I think that it it needs to be accessible in a way that people feel comfortable accessing it in their homes, which is where I think that finding the right digital platform to access that information is important.
00:33:57:23 - 00:34:17:13
Dr Amber
But as you know, in so much of digital media, there's so much censorship. So it's all in the execution of the message, right? Like I have, you know, sex worker friends that I, you know, do advocacy and like advising work for and their YouTube channel got shut down for doing product reviews on toys fully clothed. Right.
00:34:17:13 - 00:34:27:05
Luna
Like I just got a video taken down and I'm like, what in that conversation could have even what the fuck? Like what?
00:34:27:07 - 00:34:59:00
Dr Amber
So it's all like, any educational content that goes out in a broader population has to be very thoughtfully executed, which is why I feel like Substack is a good home for this content for me. At the same time, I also am working on doing continuing medical education content, specifically for doctors to put it on a CME platform. So and I had a meeting about this with, a tech person a couple weeks ago to discuss this because there are lots of different continuing medical education platforms out there for doctors and therapists, right?
00:34:59:00 - 00:35:23:13
Dr Amber
Like, yes, nurses and, you know, physical therapists and psychologists and you know, licensed clinical social workers. And so getting this information out on professional platforms so that people can be like, well, I have to have 35 hours of continuing medical education to maintain my state license anyway. Might as well get it in something that's both interesting and relevant.
00:35:23:15 - 00:35:50:20
Dr Amber
So those types of things. But I also like I would love to have another retreat in Vegas and like have the, you know, like like the last one where it was just like amazing catered food and, you know, Cirque performers and shibori demonstration and, you know, like these closed door discussions. It's almost like a support group for people who are just curious about sex and is not a play party.
00:35:50:22 - 00:36:10:14
Dr Amber
Right? Like it's just let's get the adults in the room and, you know, create a space that's safe enough for people to share vulnerabilities and ask vulnerable questions. And I've had many people who were present at that retreat last summer who were like, let me know when you do that again. I will absolutely, 100% come again if you do it again.
00:36:10:16 - 00:36:11:13
Dr Amber
Again.
00:36:11:15 - 00:36:42:13
Luna
They're totally I mean, I think there's something very special and powerful about dismantling, unpacking and smashing shame that I think in certain ways really can only happen in a certain container in a space where there's trust, where there's people, where as humans, like, I know that I myself have a completely different experience from interacting with another person in person versus through a one on one video versus like just receiving one way information from their video on the internet.
00:36:42:13 - 00:37:10:18
Luna
All have their different values, like I'm able to process at my own speed, pause, replay if it's just me in a video, but like me in a group of people in a room is a completely different experience when we're talking, sharing, listening and like feeling because it's takes the human animal body sync up thing that happens to. And so like if you can have one person there who's like, I am, you know, I'm a one on the shame a meter, then suddenly maybe someone who's at an eight is like, oh, I'm trickling down, maybe I'm a four.
00:37:10:18 - 00:37:17:10
Luna
Now, you know, who knows. Damn. Yeah. I want your retreats. Do.
00:37:17:12 - 00:37:41:00
Luna
I love the idea of like having it start off like educational and then getting increasingly just entertaining as the day wears on, you know, or, or even I imagine like a pick your own adventure style thing where it's like what? You know, maybe it's organized by millimeter like because because I think that's what I've learned over the past several years is I'm still figuring out.
00:37:41:00 - 00:37:56:08
Luna
And I'd be curious to hear your noodle on this, because I know you work with people a lot, one on one, but it's like figuring out the baseline of where that person is right? Like, that's why I like to ask the shame meter question. But it's also like your decision about your own schema meter doesn't necessarily line up.
00:37:56:08 - 00:38:06:12
Luna
You know, it's a calibration tool, but it's a very imperfect one. And that's where I'm always just like, well, how do we sort? How do we know where we are at to begin with? You know?
00:38:06:14 - 00:38:34:18
Dr Amber
Yeah, absolutely. And this goes back to the point that we were talking about earlier with monogamy. Right. Like when you get a roomful of people together and like some people are just like monogamy is their lane and, you know, and they don't want to be pandered to. They don't want to be, you know, consented to they don't want to have their decisions to pursue that relationship structure ridiculed by people who are non-monogamous.
00:38:34:18 - 00:38:57:12
Dr Amber
Just like non-monogamous, people don't want to have their relationship preferences shamed by folks who are monogamous. And so I think, like creating a space where everyone can sort of like, participate at their level of comfort, where they're not going to be forced, like feel like they're being forced to have conversations that they're not comfortable with, which is why the space matters so much.
00:38:57:14 - 00:39:28:04
Dr Amber
And yeah, you know, like being able to just like, you know, and and we would say this at the beginning of some of the talks, like if you are feeling uncomfortable about the things that we're talking about, take care of yourself. Right. Like participation and consent are ongoing processes. And, you know, if you if you need to take a moment to walk outside or take a break or, you know, whatever you need to do, get a snack, get a drink, take a breather, take a breath.
00:39:28:06 - 00:39:51:11
Dr Amber
You don't even have to come back, you know, and just allowing people to experience themselves because there's, you know, so many people have a history of sexual trauma to. So some of these conversations are, you know, can be very triggering for some people. I think it's like 1 in 3 women and like 1 in 7 men have been victims of sexual assault at some point in their lives, myself included.
00:39:51:13 - 00:40:15:13
Dr Amber
And so I also want to be very mindful of like, you know, just because I'm a woman on the shame meter and out here playing with fire and electricity and, you know, ropes and all this stuff doesn't mean that that is or should be of interest to everyone. Yeah. I just want to sort of create a space where it's like whatever question that you have.
00:40:15:15 - 00:40:35:20
Dr Amber
Chances are, if I haven't heard it before, I've heard something that's adjacent, you know, and that comes from like parenting and some of the, like, gynecological things that we've talked, talking about to ask play to like impact and fire and like where to avoid on the body so that you don't end up doing nerve damage or like, you know, having some sort of like vascular accident.
00:40:35:20 - 00:40:43:07
Dr Amber
The results in, you know, permanent disability, like it's again, it's all an execution of the message.
00:40:43:09 - 00:41:04:23
Luna
Yeah. No, it's so true. You know, and even within any of these subcategories, let's take monogamy as an example. It's not like there's one version of monogamy, right. Like there's the one where she wears the pants and the heteronormative one. There's one where they are queer but monogamous. There's one where they're like kinky and monogamous. There's one where they're like, you know, monogamous, but they're definition is totally different from theirs.
00:41:04:23 - 00:41:29:05
Luna
There's the one that's like very, very traditional and, and or like is kind of in some ways an unconscious kink dynamic. But it's like because they're vanilla supposedly that's, you know, and so it's it's very interesting to me, I think, I think the thing that is like cool and also overwhelming of all of these explorations of mine in the past six years of just going deep with so many people, I'm like, we're all the same, but so different.
00:41:29:05 - 00:42:00:07
Luna
Okay, well, I don't know how to summarize for people, you know? So I just think a lot of us spend a lot of time thinking about to what we actually as much as I love to fantasize about the larger, if you had the budget, if you had the reach, if you had everything, if, I mean, I probably spend most of my time fantasizing every day about like, and when I have the budget for my sex ed museums that are also like photography, photography, studio, you know, so slutty.
00:42:00:07 - 00:42:19:23
Luna
We works, play spaces, education centers with the best museum gift shop ever. Then I can have these types of events like that, you know? And still, that's why I'm constantly noodling, you know? And of course, it doubles as a play space on the weekends during the whatever play all day parties. And and like, I'm always, always thinking about that.
00:42:19:23 - 00:42:37:09
Luna
And I also always want to boil it back down to like, well, today with me by myself, as is what ripple of love do I spread right now? Like where do I drop? What do I drop into? Which pond? At which point? Yeah. Do you have any thoughts? Or can I ask you a couple fantasy questions? Or like what?
00:42:37:09 - 00:42:41:23
Luna
What? I know that I just like, said a lot because I'm, I also experience you as a number one noodle friend, but,
00:42:42:01 - 00:43:03:16
Dr Amber
Yes, absolutely. I mean, I just the one thing that I wanted to put a pin in and I think it kind of gets to the question that you didn't really ask, but it's this whole idea of like shooting on other people, like there's it's not like you should do things this way. Like, I'm not here to tell people what they should do in their relationships or what they should do in their bedrooms or in their sex life.
00:43:03:18 - 00:43:29:02
Dr Amber
Like, I'm here to provide information and to answer questions in a way that is honest and based on the knowledge base and skill set that I have obtained so far. But what's right for me is not going to be right for everyone. And what's, you know, and I think there's also like and this goes back to the customized relationship design thing.
00:43:29:02 - 00:43:37:00
Dr Amber
Like you can design it is a choose your own adventure thing, like your sex life is neutral. Choose your own adventure. Your relationship landscape is a choose your own adventure.
00:43:37:00 - 00:43:45:18
Luna
Hopefully, hopefully you're choosing instead of just falling into it. I mean, I've fallen into some wonderful things, but I want to have some more choice.
00:43:45:20 - 00:44:08:13
Dr Amber
Yes, absolutely. And I'm here to facilitate and normalize that because fortunately, I'm in a position of privilege where, you know, because I'm so low, because I don't have kids, because I'm self-employed and because I live in Sin City where people think we're all crazy anyway. Like, I can get away with some of the stuff that, you know, other doctors who are like married with kids in Topeka.
00:44:08:14 - 00:44:18:22
Dr Amber
Can't say. And that's starting to sort of like recognize the value that I bring and really, like put myself out there in that way.
00:44:19:00 - 00:44:39:12
Luna
Yeah, yeah, dude, it's such a such a good point. It's such a real thing. And there still is this little voice in my head that's like, well, we if we all said it, then there's no possible way the consequences would be big enough to get all of us all at once. We just all got to take one, two, three, say it, you know, and that's like probably my other recurring fantasy.
00:44:39:12 - 00:44:58:01
Luna
I'm like, hey, everyone in the corporate world. And it's not to say. It's not to say that we don't continue respect. Right. So that that's the other pieces. I'm like, oh, we don't have far reaching enough education for the new way of doing things quite yet, or at least we do. But it's actually getting censored a lot. Oh, this is what I wanted to ask you about Substack.
00:44:58:03 - 00:45:35:16
Luna
Because I get Gigi Angles Substack as well, and it is full of on purpose. I'm going to call them spelling errors, like the SDGs for sex. Like. And that breaks my brain. Like just as a human being. I'm like, so we know what these words mean. It's a weird code and I wonder, I would love to hear your opinion on, you know, you're talking about communicating these things in careful ways that deliver the information, but also kind of basically, if I'm understanding you correctly, helps us squiggle around the weird censorship that exists in this puritanical, strange culture.
00:45:35:18 - 00:45:59:15
Luna
As a person with a very literal brain who has really been struggling to to learn, like polite euphemism my entire life, like I find that terrifying, harmful and sad. Like, how do you. Because. Because euphemism creates a lack of clarity in which I personally have experienced some of the biggest harms. You know, both directions on accident, sometimes on purpose.
00:45:59:15 - 00:46:13:07
Luna
Right. Like it creates this like big gray area space. But I personally have a big don't like, like how do you. Balance clarity with navigating that.
00:46:13:09 - 00:46:26:14
Dr Amber
It's it's hard and you know I so you've interviewed Zachary Zane Boyce lead and I didn't like promote his material but he's on Substack to and he writes like Mary like.
00:46:26:16 - 00:46:28:04
Luna
You had no idea.
00:46:28:06 - 00:46:51:00
Dr Amber
Yeah. Of his personal sexual experiences. And I'm like, you know, if he can get away with that shit. And I can say what I'm saying and I can do what I'm doing, right. And so I sort of, you know, as much as, like, taking permission from the leadership of a man like, I'm really, like, exonerating myself based on some of the, like, boundary pushing stuff that he's been doing.
00:46:51:02 - 00:47:32:15
Dr Amber
Another piece that I think is really important is, you know, clarity of language for minors because overage age of exposure to digital pornography is like 12. Yeah. And that's if you have not given your nine year old like my niece is nine. I'm spending the weekend with her. Like if you've not given her access to a phone, even if you've locked down all of the like controls of on a device for a child, there's someone on the playground, there's someone at school, there's someone on the sports field who doesn't have that stuff locked down, and who are going to utter the words blowjob or anal sex or whatever to minors.
00:47:32:15 - 00:48:06:17
Dr Amber
And like if we as the grownups in the room don't have the language to talk with children about bodily autonomy, about privacy, about consent, about technology, then the internet will teach them. Right? They are digital natives, and they'll find access to that information whether we want them to have it or not. And so that's why I think the important, the importance and clarity of language comes in, including teaching, teaching kids things like bodily autonomy and consent and like, these are the appropriate.
00:48:06:17 - 00:48:27:20
Dr Amber
And this is your vulva and this is your clitoris. This is like exclusively for pleasure, normal to touch yourself, go into your room to do it. We don't do that in front of grandma in the living room, you know, and like, how do we have these conversations in sane ways. And the other books that I would recommend from another expert that I have a tremendous amount of respect for, is called Not Your Kid by Doctor Debbie.
00:48:27:20 - 00:48:47:15
Dr Amber
Her she's a, researcher at the Kinsey Institute. I actually met her at the International Society for the Study of Women's Sexual Health, and her book is on my nightstand right now. I'm reading it, and she talks all about, like, the intersection of child rearing and digital porn and how to talk to kids about these things incredibly is appropriate language.
00:48:47:15 - 00:49:13:22
Dr Amber
But in in the context of censorship, whether it's through meta or YouTube or, you know, what a like insert name of platform here, when you're censoring the spelling of these words and like putting shadow bans on on educators, you know? Yeah. Like maybe you're. Like, I just think it's a double edged sword, right? Like you can't have it both ways.
00:49:13:22 - 00:49:25:02
Dr Amber
You can't have, like, complete censorship and access to good sex education. Like, it's just a very difficult line to ditto.
00:49:25:04 - 00:49:43:20
Luna
I find it tough to navigate. And yeah, I free myself from the responsibility of figuring it out because other people are doing a much better job of it. And I'm sort of like, I'm going to lean heavily on the artist thing, and if people learn from me, then it's probably because I'm uplifting another educator and that's great. Like, that's my that's my contribution.
00:49:43:22 - 00:49:55:15
Luna
Yeah. Okay. Is there anything else you want to say, doctor Amber whole update wise either in your personal or professional life, where can I ask you? Can I ask you a fantasy question?
00:49:55:17 - 00:49:59:04
Dr Amber
Ask me the fantasy question. Okay.
00:49:59:06 - 00:50:24:14
Luna
If we suddenly all lived in an alternate reality where health insurance cover sex work of all kinds, it's legal, it's consensual, and in fact, everyone in the whole wide world now has to be a sex worker for at least two years in their adult life to serve their fellow mankind. What kind of sex worker would you want to be?
00:50:24:16 - 00:50:55:11
Dr Amber
I first of all love this question. Because I think that, you know, again, our sexuality and pleasure and connection are such an important part of our overall mental health. I think it does like sex workers I advocate for. I'm planning to put an interview on my Substack about providing appropriate care to sex workers. My fantasy role in all of this, I first of all, I think I would be an outstanding professional dominatrix.
00:50:55:13 - 00:50:56:09
Dr Amber
One. Yes.
00:50:56:13 - 00:50:59:14
Luna
Yes. Doctor. Dominatrix. Yes.
00:50:59:16 - 00:51:18:18
Dr Amber
Yes. As part of that, I would take PIV entirely off the table. So there is this sort of perception, you know, like when I say or when a guy says to you, like, where do you want me to finish, right. Like, do you want me to end? Like, where are your body? Do you want me to finish?
00:51:18:18 - 00:51:50:12
Dr Amber
Like respectful question. It should be negotiated. But why does his ejaculation have to mean it's finished? Right. So if you take PIV off the table and you are now working with your hands, you're working with your tongue, you're working with toys, you're working with your mind, you're working with internal stimulation, you're working with massage oil and music and breath.
00:51:50:12 - 00:52:18:11
Dr Amber
And, you know, this sort of like deeper connection. When you take PIV off the table, it forces a level of crea tivity that opens up entire new realms of pleasure. So if I were going to be a professional sex worker for two years, first of all, I think I would be very good at it because I know my anatomy really well and I know psychology really well, and I know human sensitivity really well.
00:52:18:13 - 00:52:53:03
Dr Amber
But if I were going to do it, I would do it as a psychological dominant where he ideas off the menu. And I think that people would end up being better lovers as a result of having what is traditionally thought of as being like sex. Right? And the like the analogy that I would use is like, if you're if you're going to dinner and a pig is like the filet mignon and you're like, you have, you know, you have the crab cake appetizer and you have the soup and you have the salad and you have the dessert.
00:52:53:05 - 00:53:16:09
Dr Amber
But like, really the main event is the filet mignon. I want to encourage people to think of sex more as like sushi. I'm there for the nigiri. I'm there for, you know, the salmon and the octopus and the scallops, and I'm there for the green tea ice cream, and I'm there for, you know, the miso soup and I'm there for, you know, I'm there for all of it.
00:53:16:14 - 00:53:36:02
Dr Amber
It's not like there's one main event. I, I like all of the stuff on the menu. I want more and more and more of everything on the menu. And so that would be my contribution to my fellow humans would be like to teach and not to get so focused on the one thing like.
00:53:36:04 - 00:53:36:22
Luna
Yeah.
00:53:37:00 - 00:53:38:19
Dr Amber
Creativity.
00:53:38:21 - 00:53:59:11
Luna
Okay. So follow up question since you're the one in charge, when when does sex end? Because I think the easy thing that's built in for most people about like orgasms for either partner. Right? Not just for the penis owner, but also for the pussy owner. And like maybe pussy owners can have more of them. Depends on the person.
00:53:59:13 - 00:54:20:09
Luna
Like there is a natural story arc built in there, right? Like a climax, like, you know, and then we have the resolution, we cuddle what you know, and I'm in situations where like, I have found myself the more injured person lately because I am now, just by default, more experienced sexually than a lot of the lovers that I'm taking on.
00:54:20:11 - 00:54:39:00
Luna
I'm like, oh, I got this. I gotta wrap this up. I gotta call it. We got to go. You know, like like, how do you kind of like to hold that space and also. Okay. And second half of question. Sorry for overloading, but this is my pattern. I had a friend that was just telling me about a dominatrix that she was listening to in a talk.
00:54:39:00 - 00:55:10:09
Luna
Says she never lets her penis owning submissive ejaculate. She said that as if she has a femme submissive. It's like built into submission for a femme to like, receive, receive, receive like pussy. Owners are built to receive. And so us having more orgasms as submissive makes logical sense. But like for guys because she said that in her experience penis owning submissive get bratty or and rowdy or after they come or something where they, they it's there's like some sort of like dominant bratty energy that comes out.
00:55:10:09 - 00:55:30:14
Luna
So she just never lets them ejaculate. They're allowed to have like prostate based orgasm, but they're not allowed to like, shoot cum anywhere. So what do you think about that. And also like yeah, what container would you propose in this in this new reality to like, you know, still give a human being this, this sense of an arc and satisfaction.
00:55:30:16 - 00:55:40:19
Dr Amber
So oh the so it's two questions. So I'm going to kind of try to break them up. First of all I love this concept of not allowing the penis owner to actually well.
00:55:40:19 - 00:55:53:15
Luna
And I do that all edge myself. I have a partner recently who I'm like, I don't want to get too close to you. I have a request. I'm not allowed to come in our sessions, you know, and so like I and that also turns me on so much like, if I'm not allowed to come, then I'm about to come most of the time.
00:55:53:15 - 00:56:05:20
Luna
But it's a really hard game. And so like, I had to, like, pop up the other day, be like, I'm not allowed to come. And he was like, you're not allowed to come. And so it's like, you know, it's just like very fun. And I know that's opposite of what this person said, but I'm like, I'm allowed to choose my own game.
00:56:05:20 - 00:56:10:00
Luna
Sorry for interrupting and making it about me more long question, but okay. Yeah, I want to hear your thoughts.
00:56:10:02 - 00:56:20:10
Dr Amber
But no, I love it. And thank you for sharing that story with me. And I'll I'll take you back into an experience of mine. So I was recently turned on the the concept of caging like cock cages cage.
00:56:20:10 - 00:56:21:10
Luna
Oof! Oof!
00:56:21:10 - 00:56:53:22
Dr Amber
I been like, you know, aware that there's sort of, like out there in the ether, but like, it really came into my world in a meaningful way, like within the last year. And it's like having the idea and and the reason why I said professional dominatrix is like having someone who is willing and not only willing, but desires being caged so that I know and they're constantly reminded that they are there for my pleasure and my service.
00:56:54:00 - 00:57:19:00
Dr Amber
Like, is unbelievably hot, right? Like, yeah, I like, dream World Service submission. Like, come. Yes, come to my house, clean my house, go grocery shopping, make me a meal, run me a bath, bathe me by hand like, rub my feet, paint my toenails, suck my toes like, yes, yes. All of the things wear a cage for me.
00:57:19:00 - 00:57:32:00
Dr Amber
So that that's a reminder of like who is in charge and that that he is there for my pleasure and my satisfaction. Like no. Amazing. Yeah. Where do I. Good. Mine. Right.
00:57:32:00 - 00:57:33:14
Luna
Good little toy.
00:57:33:16 - 00:58:07:23
Dr Amber
So delicious. But that doesn't mean that I'm entirely self-serving, right? Because, like, I don't want to. I don't want to engage with someone who doesn't also get off on that dynamic. Like, genuinely like hungry for that dynamic. But, you know, I in turn, would encourage, you know, like stimulation of the penis, almost like it's a clit and internal stimulation of the prostate, like there are there are bazillion ways to get men off without ejaculation.
00:58:07:23 - 00:58:42:03
Dr Amber
And so I think aging is a piece of that that I just wanted to point out. Like if you haven't, if that hasn't been introduced to your world, there you go. There's a pearl. But how do I, you know, put boundaries on like when does an encounter stop and when does it end? So, you know, one of one of the most amazing recent experiences that I had was, you know, I had an a long distance boyfriend time share, joy, find, if you will, who came in from out of town, and spent a weekend with me and it was like from the time I picked them up at the airport until the time that I
00:58:42:03 - 00:59:14:00
Dr Amber
dropped them off, like two days later. It was just the sort of like waxing and waning of sexual energy and like, multiple orgasms and like, basking in afterglow and taking naps and eating snacks and, you know, and, like, come back and do it all over again and, you know, this is again why like expanding the definition and getting creative when it comes to play can be so like such a powerful force and connection and so I think the starting and stopping point kind of it depends on your time frame.
00:59:14:00 - 00:59:39:03
Dr Amber
Right. Like if, if I have an hour before I have to be back at work, then, you know, we have a defined limitation on what this encounter is going to look like versus if I have an entire weekend to, you know, host and entertain and be there and really immerse myself in someone, then, you know, turn the ringer off like, we're going to be here for a while, you know?
00:59:39:05 - 00:59:40:01
Luna
Yeah.
00:59:40:03 - 00:59:41:12
Dr Amber
The answer question.
00:59:41:13 - 01:00:07:19
Luna
I don't know, because I'm like, yeah, I get the thing about the hour and there's like a logical time boundary. But I guess my question for myself is like, well, and again, I'm not an orgasm focused lover, but I as I find myself increasingly holding space for other people, you know, and I mean, in a photography session where I'm like being photo dumb and I'm basically having them do like joy stuff in front of me, like I do give them the countdown if they want to come.
01:00:07:19 - 01:00:30:21
Luna
Right. We negotiate that ahead of time, but if not, then I usually find a certain position or. But like energetically, I want some sort of like status factory finale feeling not just like, time's up, gotta go. Bye. You know? And so I've been just wondering about, like, what in creative ways makes that feel satisfying? For me, if I'm in charge, like, right.
01:00:30:21 - 01:00:50:13
Luna
Like, if I, if I'm doing the job. Because for me, it still does feel like work. I'm like, let me be the submissive and like, get worshiped by serving because I really love just like turning off my brain. And I have a little like wild little Tasmanian devil body that just go. And that's a huge gift that right now I only really give to one partner, you know, like, it's like I don't surrender to other people.
01:00:50:13 - 01:01:15:04
Luna
I'm usually in a space where it's like it is work to hold space. And so I make sure that I'm feeling appropriately valued and only really receiving that as worship and make it fun for me. I'm like, yeah, what's the as a writer like? What's the arc that I'm building here? You know, and maybe it's just words, but I'm just curious if you have, like any particular, like, satisfying, like, is it your orgasm instead?
01:01:15:05 - 01:01:19:19
Luna
You know what I mean. Like, or is it not orgasm focused at all?
01:01:19:21 - 01:01:24:15
Dr Amber
So I think it depends on the encounter. Right. Like and this is like.
01:01:24:17 - 01:01:30:14
Luna
Yeah, I'm not implying there's one right answer. Just to be clear, it I was.
01:01:30:16 - 01:01:36:07
Dr Amber
Yeah. Are you asking me to to should I don't know that I can should because I'm going to.
01:01:36:07 - 01:02:03:07
Luna
Be asking I'm asking for noodles because what it feels like is an opposite not should around orgasms. And so what I know from talking to people is there's a lot of not shooting going around, especially in conscious communities. And it's like, all right, but what are some other options for people to feel satisfied? Because in in a default zone without examples, people will default to what is familiar.
01:02:03:07 - 01:02:18:20
Luna
You know, this I know and so and just for myself as it's been coming up, this is just a question I've been asking myself and I can and I can tell you some of the things I've played around with, and, you know, for me, sometimes it's just like light touch on a person at the end. Sometimes it's creating an intimate moment where I'm staring to their eyes.
01:02:18:20 - 01:02:38:10
Luna
Sometimes I'm like planting the seed for the next time I'll see them. Sometimes I just, like, scroll through the photos and I'm like, nope, you can't touch me. Remember? That's the boundary. Like, that's that's what makes this session allowed. You know, and so I'm finding all my different ways, but I'm just like, yeah, if orgasm is not the focus, that is the default for a lot of people because it is like a built in physical thing.
01:02:38:10 - 01:02:54:02
Luna
But I just it's more just like a curious noodle brainstorm of like, what might other people find satisfying to like tie the bow on the present? Or I guess, like maybe pull up the wrapping paper and toss it in the trash you like. You can take that. Another metaphor other way.
01:02:54:04 - 01:03:24:21
Dr Amber
Yeah. So I, I, I'll give a few examples that come to mind. So, I think aftercare after, you know, if you have an intense scene, whether it's like with ropes and fire or electricity or even like erotic massage, right. Like, you know, you get two hours into an erotic massage and, you know, the the top is tired from doing what they've been doing for the last two hours.
01:03:24:23 - 01:03:50:21
Dr Amber
The bottom is like fully relaxed, like all of the blood vessels are open. And, you know, there's like maybe a little kissing and a light touch on the back of the neck or the ears or just sort of like a petting of like, okay, and now we're finished. Right. Which is going to be different from, you know, an A scene or an encounter where it's like there's, you know, someone like writing me in there.
01:03:50:21 - 01:04:25:01
Dr Amber
I'm pegging them and they like go into this like orbit, sort of like, you know, head space, sort of like internal. And this gets back to orgasm. But like once they're finished and just sort of like petting and coming down a shower after care, you know, kissing, eye gazing, like all of these things, but like what? What that, like grand finale explosion is going to be is going to vary from encounter to encounter and from like.
01:04:25:01 - 01:04:43:06
Dr Amber
And this is where like the negotiation of like boundaries. And what's your goal and what's the meaning that you're trying to get out of this experience. You know, like what what is this going to mean for self-discovery? What's it going to mean about our, you know, exploration of our relationship together? Like, all of these things are kind of questions.
01:04:43:08 - 01:04:44:17
Dr Amber
Let's create.
01:04:44:19 - 01:04:48:20
Luna
You be such a good doctor, dominatrix.
01:04:48:22 - 01:04:51:20
Dr Amber
And.
01:04:51:22 - 01:05:07:19
Luna
I like to get squished to like, if I'm if especially if I'm in receiving mode, I'm like, no, lay on me. I love that, and I know I could probably just get a weighted blanket and give that to myself at home, and maybe I should. Maybe I should do that after I, Andrew, myself and dotcom, I don't know.
01:05:07:21 - 01:05:09:09
Luna
01:05:09:11 - 01:05:12:08
Dr Amber
Yeah. Okay. I star as highly recommend.
01:05:12:10 - 01:05:33:11
Luna
Oh, it's my favorite. It's my favorite. And that's why I'm like, yeah, no, orgasm is not the focus for me because I'm like, I could just stay in arousal and turn on. And that's been most of my life to right as a highly arousal person. Orgasms not the goal because I can come whenever I again get my own private space where that's a thing that I can do or want to do, and sometimes it's just fun to keep living in the tunnel.
01:05:33:11 - 01:05:49:08
Luna
And so what else is on your horizon like either to make your personal sphere sexier, more loving place or what else that we haven't already talked about. Do you think the world needs to be a sexier, more loving place? Like what? What do doctor Amber Hull's horizons look like right now?
01:05:49:10 - 01:06:29:13
Dr Amber
So I my relationship landscape is, well, manicured at this point. I'm not like, seeking additional playmates, which is a nice place to be. I really am putting a lot of energy into creativity and to the Substack and like, coming up with an editorial calendar I'm going to be writing about, like transhumanism with respect to like the human eye interface and these like implantable brain eye devices that, you know, I think have the potential to change human connection over the course of the next couple of decades and do the writing about integrative medicine.
01:06:29:13 - 01:07:01:19
Dr Amber
I'm going to be writing about the changing health care landscape. I'm going to be writing about, you know, Gen Z's take on found family and community. I'm starting office hours, so I've been on Substack now for, almost a quarter, and I want to start doing a quarterly office hours. That'll be for my paid subscribers. But where people can come into a zoom room and either submit a question anonymously in advance of office hours, or ask it on the fly, and I can and it can be about anything.
01:07:01:19 - 01:07:22:15
Dr Amber
It doesn't have o be related to sex. It can be about like how, you know, I'm losing my insurance. You know, what are ways that I can access care without access to cigarets or whatever? Continuing to do the private consultations. And I'm starting to put together a book of, I'm looking at it being a fiction novel.
01:07:22:15 - 01:07:47:14
Dr Amber
That's sort of a collection of my sexy experiences and also my reflections on medicine and, power play dynamics. So, a very like, feminine approach to these dynamics through the lens of health and, medicine.
01:07:47:16 - 01:08:00:11
Luna
I fucking love that. Lovers. Doctor Amber Holt substack.com. The link is in the description below. I fucking love talking to you. Thank you for coming back and sharing your updates on sex stories.
01:08:00:13 - 01:08:04:17
Dr Amber
Thank you. It's always a delight to talk to you. I really appreciate the space.
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