Exploring different kinks, sugar dating fails, motherhood shifts, and sex in love and lust—Sage opens up about reclaiming pleasure, healing from shame, and exploring sex, love, and power through every stage of life.

📈 STATS | 28 straight white female, she/her pronouns, slut, mom, healing from sexual assault, in a monogamous-for-now relationship, full-time animal science student, certified astrologer, ranch worker, based in Sacramento.

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00:00:00:04 - 00:00:23:12

Luna

Our guest today is a 28 year old straight white female, a fifth generation Californian with a Waldorf education, a mom and she is in a monogamous, for now relationship. A self-proclaimed slut for most of her life who is down to try most anything at least once. She's rediscovering sensuality after becoming a mother and is here to share about teaching partners about kink, consent, and really fun sex.

00:00:23:13 - 00:00:50:22

Luna

Navigating different kinks. Learning that she's not by why sex in both love and lust are fun in their own ways. Why being a sugar baby was not for her. Regret around being the other woman, healing from sexual assault, so much therapy, and noticing how the dynamics of different lovers is reflected in their birth chart. A full time student getting her bachelor's in animal science, a recently certified astrologer and a ranch worker from California currently living in Sacramento.

00:00:50:23 - 00:00:52:18

Luna

Welcome, sage.

00:00:52:20 - 00:00:56:00

Sage

Hi. That was awesome.

00:00:56:02 - 00:01:16:10

Luna

I'm so excited to have you here. And for our listeners who know that I have astrological proclivities. I do promise that when we get to talking about charts, we will keep it grounded and thematic. And I just want to remind everyone that astrology is simply archetypal storytelling, and we all contain all parts, and we humans, especially here at sex stories, love sex stories.

00:01:16:12 - 00:01:31:13

Luna

So, sage, please start off by introducing yourself to us, by telling us if you had to rate yourself on a sexual shame meter, with ten being the most full of shame and zero being like, I do not have any sex shame at all right now, where do you land?

00:01:31:15 - 00:01:41:04

Sage

I feel so lucky to say I'm under one. Amazing. I'm truly out of one. Like we're feeling embodied. We're feeling good. Very low. I love that. And when.

00:01:41:04 - 00:01:47:17

Luna

If ever has your shameful costar squiggle. And, like, what is the texture? Where does shame come up for you, if at all?

00:01:47:19 - 00:02:13:23

Sage

Yeah, it's definitely wiggled a lot. I grew up in a religious household. Not really a conversation that was able to be had at home, but I got really lucky and had some form of like sex education since fourth grade. So conversations about puberty, sex, dating, relationships, all those were happening from fourth grade on. So I was able to get a language and an excitement before I started puberty.

00:02:14:01 - 00:02:39:08

Sage

So it was pretty constant, like neutral. Like it wasn't that scary until I started experiencing boys and sex and things like that. And it was really fun. It was a zero or a one until word got out that I had had sex or I had done things. A lot of judgment came from that. It spiked way up to a ton for a while.

00:02:39:10 - 00:03:01:13

Sage

Reclaimed. Got in a monogamous relationship. Felt good about that. Then judgment from others. It would spike back up. So that kind of was a theme throughout my life for a long time where I would feel really good and in body, especially like while I was in the act, all those things, and then mostly just judgment from others is what throughout my life has spiked it.

00:03:01:15 - 00:03:23:19

Sage

And in the last maybe four years, I have really reclaimed who I am with my body within my Constitution. And it's kind of like settled at like a 3 to 0 depending on what's going on in my life. Hum around things like that. But it was up and down a lot from puberty until like 25.

00:03:23:21 - 00:03:36:21

Luna

I totally hear that. I relate to that in my own way. You know, sometimes it's like, doobly doo doo doo, I love sex. What do you think about sex? How dare you want to know about sex? Oh, you're right. I'm bad and wrong. You know, like, I still have these, like, you know, or like, two kids to do.

00:03:36:23 - 00:03:53:22

Luna

I love to be a sex worker. What do you mean? You have sex with people? I'm like, oh, we're right, I don't know. I don't know, but I like to think that I am always constantly grounded. And there still is this part of me that can get squiggly, you know, even though at my core I have trust, still I am an influence.

00:03:53:22 - 00:04:04:14

Luna

But I'm I'm quite mutable in some ways. But my moon and my rising are mutable signs, so, we'll get it. And can we tell people what you told me before we got run that you're a triple?

00:04:04:16 - 00:04:13:09

Sage

Oh yeah, I'm a Libra sun, Aquarius moon, Gemini rising. So all three air signs got a lot of access to that ability.

00:04:13:11 - 00:04:37:18

Luna

And can I, can I speak to my understanding of what that means? So a Libra sun is someone who has the personality of wanting balance here to be in right relationship, usually has a strong sense of justice. You are Gemini Rising right? Okay. And then the Aquarius moon what's going to come kind of naturally is like I can hang with group of maybe also some lone wolf qualities because Aquarius has that kind of duality.

00:04:37:18 - 00:04:39:19

Luna

Do you experience both pretty strongly.

00:04:39:21 - 00:04:44:21

Sage

Absolutely. Yeah. Which is the other that like of you completely enmeshed.

00:04:45:00 - 00:05:04:22

Luna

You're like, I need the group. You know, also there's some facility with technology. Usually you're like, I can kind of figure the phrase requires that I was thought is water poured forth for thirsty men, you know, the water bearer. And so there's, there's this like, you know, community aspect to Aquarius that can come naturally. And also it's like, well, there's there's the community, but where's my community?

00:05:04:22 - 00:05:22:10

Luna

It's kind of that lone wolf quality. But Gemini Rising means that you are here to be the messenger of goodwill. Gemini rules, research, connection. You know, I have some strong Gemini in my chart and wants to get the good message out. So I'm I'm very excited for you to be here to get your good message out.

00:05:22:12 - 00:05:24:10

Sage

Could you next tell us.

00:05:24:12 - 00:05:32:18

Luna

Tell us the message of what is sexy. This can be your personal definition and or things you find sexy.

00:05:32:20 - 00:05:56:14

Sage

So I wrote notes. To me, essentially like the mind. Like I remember the first time I heard the phrase gave you a sexual, which my understanding, especially as like a teenager was like, oh, your turned on by how someone thinks and how someone speaks and how their mind works. And that is a true definition of how and what I find sexy is like.

00:05:56:16 - 00:06:23:09

Sage

If you can stimulate me mentally, if you can tell me new information that I don't already know, or further into something that I'm interested in. But like you have a whole new lens on how to view that, oh my God, that is like a that part of me. So that's like first and foremost, like if you if you're boring to me, probably not going to be turned on by you no matter how hot you are to conventional standards.

00:06:23:11 - 00:06:45:08

Sage

I also find it really sexy, like confidence, like, oh my God. But a number of my long term partners are very short and I've had pushback from people in my life be like, oh my God, you like a short guy? Da da da da da. But like, they carry themselves so well, I don't care. They're smart and they're confident.

00:06:45:10 - 00:07:05:21

Sage

I don't care what you look like on the outside. Like, oh my God, it's embodied within. So the confidence is huge to me. Shaming self and like feeling down on self is a very big turnoff for me. I love hyping people up, even if it's fake. Like fake it til you make it. So like if you walk in the room and you're confident I don't care really what's on the outside if it's coming from within.

00:07:05:21 - 00:07:21:22

Sage

Oh my God, that's so sexy. That turns me on too much. I always say like, I don't have a type per se because it's that mind and that embodiment of confidence that I look for, not the outside of what it should look like necessarily.

00:07:22:00 - 00:07:25:04

Luna

My type is good vibes, basically.

00:07:25:04 - 00:07:32:16

Sage

Like, I think that kind of embodies like the gist of it. There's a lot of little things, but I think that's the main key points.

00:07:32:18 - 00:07:39:18

Luna

Beautiful snapshot. Can you give us a little overview of what your sex life is like right now, and like any favorite parts that you love?

00:07:39:20 - 00:08:07:03

Sage

So as a mom with a toddler who has a sixth sense for any time anything is going on, no where, oh my gosh. So I am with her father. So there's no such thing as like getting date night because we are the parents and it has happened so many times where we like finally get the foreplay, more like about to actually have sex and then she wakes up.

00:08:07:08 - 00:08:28:09

Sage

Okay, little pitter patter walk into a room like, oh God. So to me, my sex life is fulfilled when we actually can have it. It's not simple. It's like, oh my gosh, we're both such sexual beings. And I mean, hello, we have a kid that came very fast. Right now, it's like foreplay has gone out the window.

00:08:28:11 - 00:08:49:18

Sage

In the moment, it's like foreplay throughout the day. Throughout the week? Yes, even two weeks. It's like little tiny, like, oh, I want you. But then. Oh, my God, we have to wait. So it's a lot of buildup. It's a lot of talking about what we want to do to each other. And then when it finally happens, even if it's only for like ten minutes, which to both of us is very, very short.

00:08:49:19 - 00:08:57:06

Sage

It's like such a huge relief because we've been building up for so long that it finally happened. I think it's just exciting when we finally get to do it.

00:08:57:08 - 00:09:16:14

Luna

Totally, totally well. And thank goodness for at least the like part of you that likes the mental stimulation. Right? And I'm also just like, yeah, obviously I want to have touches as often as possible in the right circumstances. And then when life is there, if I can't have touches as often as I want them, I want to be able to look forward to touches.

00:09:16:14 - 00:09:26:22

Luna

And so the fact that you have that extended foreplay is, is awesome. Is that typically like a mixture of in person, through text message, through calls, like, what does that kind of look like for you?

00:09:27:00 - 00:09:50:20

Sage

We do like almost all of our communication calls wise. We don't live together at the moment. We're working on that and so calls. He's very big on like tension building and so like just eye contact. Oh my god, it's insane. That can just like activate so much. I'm a very touchy feely person. But for him, it's just like even just a certain look.

00:09:50:22 - 00:10:20:01

Sage

Yeah. And then like, withholding it and I'm like, oh, it's so good. So yeah, mostly calls or like in person. My daughter's even at this point where if we touch too long or if we kiss, she's mad and will like, physically separate us. So it's a lot of just like almost telepathy of like we both want this. Let's try to figure out how we can like, get her down for a bit sooner and then we can go play in the other room.

00:10:20:03 - 00:10:24:10

Sage

But yeah, it's a lot of communication for sure, I love that.

00:10:24:10 - 00:10:29:06

Luna

Can I ask, is there or where is the earth in your chart?

00:10:29:08 - 00:10:42:20

Sage

My mercury, the way that my mind, works the way I think communicate is in Virgo. And then I also have Jupiter and Neptune in Capricorn. Okay.

00:10:42:22 - 00:10:57:06

Luna

And I believe you told me when we were not recording that Jupiter is in the eighth house, which is typically known to be sex, death, money. And so Jupiter rules a lot less beneficence like a big Santa Clause. And, are they are they conjunct in the like? Are they close to each other?

00:10:57:06 - 00:11:01:18

Sage

Those are not the dimensions of mental health, okay. But oh.

00:11:01:20 - 00:11:10:23

Luna

Yeah. So is there a part of you that also likes to have to be a little bit adventurous with, or do you at least dream of adventurous, touches, or does the Capricorn kind of balance that out?

00:11:11:00 - 00:11:14:22

Sage

Oh no, Capricorn does not balance around,

00:11:15:00 - 00:11:18:18

Luna

No one's like, no, I really want to do it in adventurous places.

00:11:18:20 - 00:11:28:00

Sage

Oh, yeah, like sex in places that I'm not supposed to have sex. Oh, my God, do I love that so much? I get maybe there's that Capricorn lens of, like, who we shouldn't.

00:11:28:02 - 00:11:28:15

Luna

Yeah.

00:11:28:17 - 00:11:32:11

Sage

Yeah, we might get caught like, oh, it's not, it's not polite to do it here.

00:11:32:13 - 00:11:34:03

Luna

But the Jupiter in the eighth house is like.

00:11:34:04 - 00:11:55:20

Sage

Taboo is okay. Not in the carnal instincts come out. I'm like, but I have to like, oh my God, it's so much more hot. If we did it anyway. Like the first time I ever got fingered was in a movie theater and it was like full, like full out, like, I don't know how we were not told to leave, but yeah, I've had sex and a lot of interesting places.

00:11:55:22 - 00:12:13:12

Sage

I love that so much. And also like, fun thing about the ninth house stuff is like almost all of my partners are first generation or like just not from where I'm from. And so I think that's also interesting. I've just noticed that pattern. I'm like, that's a theme.

00:12:13:14 - 00:12:34:05

Luna

Yeah. And for our listeners, the ninth house, typically, in my understanding, rules travel and higher education, literal or figurative. Right. So it can be higher learning people who are seekers, you know, I have I'm a Sagittarius Rising and Sagittarius is associated with the ninth house. You know, they all kind of line up. And so it's like the travel comes to you though, it's almost like the you're the drama that's so cool.

00:12:34:05 - 00:12:38:16

Luna

Or you can travel from wherever you are is and learn through people who are from other places.

00:12:38:16 - 00:12:45:15

Sage

That's that's what it really feels like. It's like I've always wanted to travel, but then the travelers come here. Yeah. And like they find me.

00:12:45:15 - 00:13:05:13

Luna

One leads to the other. Tell us about what it feels like to have mercury in Virgo. So Mercury is the planet of communication. Virgo I know as the high Priestess also very grounded also rules the harvest. And it's, you know, at the greatest, it's the great editor it has an eye for can be perfectionist if, if the if it's out of balance.

00:13:05:13 - 00:13:15:22

Luna

But it kind of has this beautiful ability to cultivate. So is that like goddess goddesses communication like how do you experience your mercury in Virgo?

00:13:16:00 - 00:13:45:18

Sage

That's a really great question. I feel like I'm really adept at finding how to improve things or or literally finding things like I seem to have grown up with and dated a lot of people who are more absent minded and like very ADHD type vibe where, just they lose things all the time. And I always have a full mental picture of where everything is in my head at all times, and it doesn't feel overwhelming.

00:13:45:18 - 00:14:16:12

Sage

It's just like, oh yeah, you lost this. It's right here on this place, or I can walk into a space and it looks disorganized, and I just know exactly how it needs to be organized. Well, it's never been a problem for me. Or like the remedial bookkeeping tasks or busy, like, boring things like that I love. They satisfy me, like, let me come into a desk and find it in disarray and I will my whole task for the day will be organizing it and making it pretty with labels.

00:14:16:14 - 00:14:18:06

Sage

That is, to me.

00:14:18:08 - 00:14:22:15

Luna

I love. I mean, that's that's pretty mercury in Virgo because you're like concrete you.

00:14:22:17 - 00:14:26:06

Sage

But yeah, you're you're so cool.

00:14:26:06 - 00:14:40:02

Luna

Okay, before we dive into all sexy details, I would love to hear how do you love to woo yourself and how do you love to be wooed? Like, what's the dynamic between the give and take? Tell us about self-love and receiving love.

00:14:40:04 - 00:15:05:13

Sage

So for me, self-love, it's I guess very practical as well. Like literally just taking time, getting a facial, getting my nails done, taking a nice long bath without anyone interrupting me. Like taking time to just like, totally zone out, watch a show that I know no one else wants to watch. But I get to watch it. That feels really good right now.

00:15:05:15 - 00:15:25:22

Sage

The dancers were very different before I had a kid, but currently it's like, oh my God, I don't have to watch a toddler show. This is amazing. And like, how feels like extreme self-care for me right now. Or getting to spend time with friends without anyone else. Like needing my time. That is so healing. I get to have conversations that I don't have to edit myself.

00:15:25:22 - 00:15:50:13

Sage

That feels like there. It's mostly just like kind of finding little semblance of ways that I used to exist without thinking before I became a mom. And now it's like, that truly is self-care. Also, being outside, I have to be outside very regularly outside of the city. So like, I worked on a farm that was in my intro and that every week is just, oh my gosh, it grounds me and it makes me feel so much better every time.

00:15:50:13 - 00:15:58:15

Sage

And it's like, if I miss it, I feel a little scattered. But then if I can go back to farm with beautiful animals, oh my gosh, I'm like a different human.

00:15:58:17 - 00:16:17:03

Luna

I totally hear that. I go watch my family farm every so often and it doesn't. It's not like a working. I mean, agriculture, yes, but animals are like dogs and cats now. But just being able to put my feet on the ground and walk around barefoot and look at clouds without sirens and helicopters going all around me is really nice.

00:16:17:03 - 00:16:18:16

Sage

00:16:18:18 - 00:16:23:09

Luna

What about the parts of you that love receiving love. What feels really nourishing to you.

00:16:23:11 - 00:16:54:20

Sage

Oh so receiving love. Ask me about my day and be genuinely interested. Like, like I said at the beginning, like if we can have a stimulating conversation. Oh, my gosh, that makes me feel so good. So it's like, tell me about your day, but then ask about mine and and ask follow up questions that makes me feel so seen and loved and then and the broader sense of things of like new partners or anything like that.

00:16:54:22 - 00:17:23:01

Sage

I would love to share about my sexual experiences and my history, my game history and all those things, and having a safe container that feels like I can share everything and it can be like a fun, stimulating conversation instead of, oh, God, this is too much. I don't approve of this conversation, but when that happens, and thank God I've had that often enough, it's like, oh, I feel so loved and and like that just does everything for me.

00:17:23:03 - 00:17:24:00

Sage

00:17:24:01 - 00:17:40:07

Luna

Oh, I'm so glad to hear that you've had nourishing versions of that. I know that I definitely still contract when I feel like too much for some, even though I'm like I am too much for most people. Like it's quite true and okay, you know, and it's like it's all it's all good. And, it is so nice.

00:17:40:09 - 00:17:50:12

Luna

Have you ever had instances where you want to receive more attention than maybe you're getting in a moment and have been able to success, ask for it or invite it?

00:17:50:14 - 00:18:20:21

Sage

I've gotten really good at that in the last like 4 or 5 years. I think through therapy and not necessarily just what I've talked about in therapy, but having an outlet to spend a dedicated hour just discussing the things that I need to discuss, getting those feelings out there to a third party. Then when I come to my partners or friends or family, it's like I've gotten better at instead of shutting down because that's my normal is to like, retreat, shut down, associate.

00:18:20:23 - 00:18:48:04

Sage

Instead of doing that, it's like, hey, I'm feeling on received right now. I'm feeling like for disconnected, I'm feeling like we're not having a conversation. And I would like this to be a two way street. I would like to have a back and forth with you, and it feels like you're talking about me. Not to me. Learning how to establish that and learning how to phrase that in a way that it's received as like greatly improved, like all relationships.

00:18:48:06 - 00:18:57:22

Sage

But I think definitely just having it someone that's dedicated to you and only you. And it doesn't feel selfish because they're your therapist, has been really helpful to me.

00:18:58:00 - 00:19:18:01

Luna

I totally relate. I'm like, no, this is the time where I could to noodle out loud with a person who's there to hold space for me and support my my growth, my healing. You know, I'll always I want to hear a little bit more about you also told me before we started recording that you have Mars and Venus and Lilith in Leo.

00:19:18:01 - 00:19:38:10

Luna

So that's also why I ask about attention. You know, in this kind of like love. Like, what does it take for you? You know, we heard a little bit about foreplay. We've heard a little bit about, like, the attention you like to receive. Is there more to it? Like, what are those parts of you? Because Mars typically rules masculine, you know, classic masculine energy, forwardness, and it can be associated with passion and sex.

00:19:38:11 - 00:19:51:16

Luna

Also war. And then Venus, as I understand it, is what we love, what we value and can often have to do with relationships and, you know, divine feminine. So how do you experience that? As someone with Mars and Venus in Leo?

00:19:51:18 - 00:19:57:21

Sage

So for me, I've been called a selfish lover.

00:19:57:23 - 00:19:58:13

Luna

How do you feel.

00:19:58:13 - 00:20:30:14

Sage

About all that pisses me off. Okay. So, it a I guess it could be a negative connotation of Leo. It's like we with strong Leo placements can feel like it's an honor for you to be in my presence, but I at times genuinely feel that. Like, I feel that my body and my sensuality and my, like, presence and mind and everything that I come with is a gift.

00:20:30:16 - 00:20:51:16

Sage

So you should be so lucky to be able to experience me and enjoy me. And I think we're going to get to kinks later. But like, I have a very big kink, so I like being like, no, no, no, no. But then if you can activate and become that dominant partner of like, you are going to listen, you are going to do this for me.

00:20:51:21 - 00:21:11:12

Sage

I don't care what you want, I'm going to do this first. I will turn into the best lover ever and like literally give everything. Like I will do anything you ask, but you have to get me past that. Like, brat thing. No. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I feel like that, that Leo is, like, very strong in that of like.

00:21:11:13 - 00:21:26:07

Sage

No, I am the most important. You're going to do everything for me first. But they can activate that and they can, like, get past that. Oh my God. Like, I'm such a giving lover. But unfortunately, if it's not activated, then I'm like, I mean, you're just lucky to be here, right?

00:21:26:09 - 00:21:53:01

Luna

I love, I love, love, love I mean, I love hearing about sex, I love astrology, they're both great frameworks for getting to know people, but overlap them because Leo at the highest is the generous hearted lover. Leo shines their capital as self so that all others may see and shine their own selves. You know? And the lowest it can be, the, endlessly hungry narcissist that can never have enough, you know, never, never feel enough, you know?

00:21:53:01 - 00:22:06:03

Luna

And at the highest, we're all our own kings and queens or whatever the non-gendered, whatever royalty with our own like royal selves. So I love thinking about how Leo relates to branding this.

00:22:06:05 - 00:22:08:06

Sage

I excited for people like, oh yeah.

00:22:08:08 - 00:22:20:21

Luna

Oh, that's gonna be so fun. Okay, okay, before we get into all of the details, is there anything else to say about what needs for your self connection wise need to be met before you want to get physically intimate with a partner?

00:22:20:23 - 00:22:44:01

Sage

I mean, I sleep with people pretty easily, and I feel like if we meet and we've talked all day and it feels like I can't go home or you can't go home, we will be sleeping together because that's all it takes is like that. That sounds very, simple. But, like, if I don't want to stop spending time with you work, it's going to lead to great sex.

00:22:44:01 - 00:23:07:03

Sage

And and in my experience, it does. So, like dating apps when I've been on those short lived. But I have it's like if we're texting nonstop long paragraphs, you can come over. Okay, but if I'm getting dry responses or you don't have much to say in person or on the phone, it's like, no goodbye. I don't want to talk to you.

00:23:07:03 - 00:23:14:11

Sage

Like you don't get to explore the body part. If we're not having a good back and forth, the brain part can even love that.

00:23:14:13 - 00:23:35:00

Luna

I love that, okay? I also think sometimes simplicity is just the most beautiful thing, right? Like, it doesn't have to be complicated. It can be straightforward. It can be as straightforward as desire and a good reason. And the good reason can be because I want to, you know, for me, for me, I'm so logistical, I'm like, well, because otherwise I'm like a wide open floodgate of yes.

00:23:35:00 - 00:23:51:00

Luna

And I had to learn how to close that and to have, you know, good for me reasons. And they changed the course of my life. But, I love that. Okay. Tell us now before we get into all of the details, both in monogamous relationship and before when you were dating, what are your health and safety practices like?

00:23:51:00 - 00:23:55:04

Luna

Like what sort of conversations do you have? What sort of protection do you prefer?

00:23:55:06 - 00:24:14:19

Sage

I have always been tested really regularly. Going back to that, like really early sex ed class that we had every year from fourth grade on, testing was never something that I was ashamed of. It was like, this is the most practical and logical thing to do. If I have a partner, I'm going to get tested after them.

00:24:14:21 - 00:24:42:05

Sage

I honestly hate condoms. They I feel like there's never enough lube, so getting proof that they've gotten tested. I don't like hearing the answer. Oh, I just did like, show me. Yeah. So I need to say that, because I get it regularly, so I'm not going to put myself in jeopardy just based off your word. So that's another thing is like, if a new partner and I, we have a really great conversation easily, we should be able to talk about these things ahead of time.

00:24:42:05 - 00:25:05:11

Sage

So that's part of like the build up of if we're going to sleep together. We've also talked about our history at least recently and how like, how recently I've been tested, showing me that I have gotten into some situations where I believe people and they're like, oh, I got to answer to anyone since. And then they weren't tested after their most recent partner.

00:25:05:11 - 00:25:25:23

Sage

And, you know, some stuff happened easily fixed. But getting that proof is the most important. Even getting tested while I'm in this relationship is important. Yes. I also pretty in tune with my body. So the two times that I have contracted something, I knew immediately, like next morning woke up and I was like, oh, we're getting tested today.

00:25:26:01 - 00:25:39:02

Sage

And it was quickly fixed. So yeah, tested is the most I'm finding proof of the tests. It's the most common way for me. I do use condoms, but I try I hate them. Yeah, it's not pleasurable. Okay, okay.

00:25:39:04 - 00:26:00:15

Luna

And then how much do you like to talk about sex with your partners before you do it? Like, it sounds like you have a good conversation. It also sounds like, based on the information you gave me, that you've been a teacher to many partners. But like, especially when you were in the single dating phase, like, how much would your ideal talking about sex with a partner ahead of time be for you?

00:26:00:17 - 00:26:20:21

Sage

Oh, I feel like that's most of the foreplay. Like sex long, like there is a one point a ruin and I we both were single. Like newly single, out of long term relationships. We had this beautiful house that we got to live in together, and we both got on dating apps together because we, like, we've never done this.

00:26:20:23 - 00:26:41:01

Sage

Let's get back out there and our opening lines with guys would be about sex. Like it was like off the bat, like on Tinder. Let's talk about sex right now. Like, what is your king like? That was like, hello, how are you? What are your kings? So like I am.

00:26:41:03 - 00:26:57:01

Luna

I'm shocked right now that that has not previously occurred to me. Never. Because I was always like, oh, I'm trying to be normal. I try I don't want to scare these people with how sexy I am. I've been getting rejected my whole life for being sexy. Oh my God, what was that like? Did you. Yeah.

00:26:57:03 - 00:27:32:22

Sage

Freaking awesome. Okay. Oh my God, it was so awesome. Like, I actually got to meet some lightweight famous people through that. Like, they just happened to be on Tinder, and it worked right away. Not as exciting as it sounds, but cool experience. I've found like really great expansion through kink with that, because if a guy is like turned off by that right away, it's like, well, I'm not going to have fun with you then if we can't play like, yeah, but then if and also guys aren't used to a girl opening the conversation like that, they're used to being the one that's pursuing.

00:27:33:00 - 00:27:53:05

Sage

But getting in my masculine in that way. And just like initiating those conversations, they're like, oh, oh, I can talk about things I'm not supposed to talk about women with. Oh my gosh, let's go. And so I feel like that kind of relates to that teaching aspect of, oh, well, here's like the Bdsm website where you can get like your kink test.

00:27:53:07 - 00:28:17:02

Sage

I would send that to people to have, like, you need to fill this up before you come over. And then we could talk about it like, I love that. Like I was experimenting a lot and it was really, really fun. And I met a lot of like very interesting people who a few of them are actually still in my life of like, we're now just great friends because I am in a relationship now, but oh my gosh, starting conversations that way.

00:28:17:02 - 00:28:38:11

Sage

Starting dates that way is like the most fun. And it opens so many doors because I feel like a lot of guys are too ashamed to bring up the things that they desire to do. And I like to play and I like to experience new things. So it's like, tell me what you want to experience and we can make that happen.

00:28:38:13 - 00:28:50:19

Luna

Yeah, I mean, Leo also rules play. So having Venus and Mars in Leo also I hear I hear Jupiter in Capricorn in the eighth house. Like tell me about your kids.

00:28:50:21 - 00:28:57:02

Sage

Like, oh, you create Leo like, take this test and then, okay.

00:28:57:02 - 00:29:12:09

Luna

Let's dive into your personal timeline. Like tell us when and how did you learn about love, sex and connection and pleasure growing up? Like, start wherever you want. I love to hear what your first memories about sex work take us through sex Ed. Take us through what feels relevant for you.

00:29:12:11 - 00:29:34:20

Sage

Okay, so first, like, oh, learning vagina is still good. We're going to start way back. Yeah. So I remember I think it was literally the first time I took a bath by myself and I was like, so I was like five maybe earlier. I don't really know exactly how old I was. And I was really young now.

00:29:34:21 - 00:29:50:22

Sage

Yeah. And I was like, so proud that I got to, like, take a bath without any adult needing to do it for me. And I was like, I will wash every part of my body with my washcloth and I will get the soap and that'll be great. And then I got down to my private parts and I was like, well, I want to keep washing here.

00:29:51:00 - 00:30:14:20

Sage

I just want to keep going. And it didn't like make any shameful things. But like, I knew that, my parents weren't doing that, but like, why is that? They miss this part. This feels great. So for for a long time, the bath faucet, I would put myself under that and it was like, okay, I'm going to take a bath, lock the door.

00:30:14:22 - 00:30:37:19

Sage

And while it's filling up, just like put myself right under that and we're just going to stay here until the bath fills up. And I never knew that I was playing with myself when I was that age. I just was like, this is frickin great. Oh my God. I also remember discovering a literal massage. It was like a really big, bulky one for like back massage or whatever, and discovering that was like, oh, so great.

00:30:37:19 - 00:30:55:14

Sage

I put like a washcloth over it so it wouldn't get my vagina juices on it. And then it was like, I would do it for too long and then it would hurt and be raw and like, rubbed the wrong way. But I was like, but this is also so great. So those are like, you know, before we realize those are like, oh, I'm horny.

00:30:55:17 - 00:31:15:12

Sage

That was just this feels good. And we're going to do this when we're alone. And that I feel like very early on and it, I didn't talk about it, but I was like, this is great. I look forward to this time. So the first time I like, started exploring kissing or anything like that. It's probably sixth or seventh grade.

00:31:15:18 - 00:31:37:18

Sage

I didn't go to an all girls school, but I had mostly all girls in my class and we would have big sleepovers and our whole thing was like, we have to prep for our boyfriends that we're going to have someday. So we would practice kissing. We would practice giving hickeys to each other. Like dry humping, like all of that.

00:31:37:18 - 00:31:45:09

Sage

But it was all into the preface of we are practicing for when we have boyfriends, because we have to be experienced with it and was like training.

00:31:45:13 - 00:31:53:08

Luna

Where that idea came from. I'm like, I wish I'd gone to some more interesting sleepovers. I would have liked to have practiced.

00:31:53:10 - 00:32:15:01

Sage

I honestly think I had like two key friends that I don't know where they learned it from, and I don't know if it was books or TV shows or I don't know where it was from, but I know that they were always the ones that were like, oh, we have to try this, or I just like learned about this thing that boys really like, probably from one of those magazines that were like, oh, we're going to learn how to do this.

00:32:15:01 - 00:32:22:02

Sage

And we're going to rate each other on a scale of how good you are, a kiss. So the competition. Oh, damn.

00:32:22:04 - 00:32:31:18

Luna

Oh, man. Okay. Do you remember? Yeah. Like felt emotions wise to you at the time. Was it like fun? Curious. Interesting. Read it. Like, how did the readings feel?

00:32:31:20 - 00:33:05:19

Sage

Well, I was determined to be the best. Honestly, I was like, shit, I better at first place. I was in a group of friends that they were all Firesign. So for, like, the fire signs are, like, very boisterous, outgoing, loud, passionate, passionate and playful. All of my friends were Firesign, and I was like, this little air sign is like, did it still do whatever you guys think about stuff like that stuff, but also like to be the best.

00:33:05:21 - 00:33:27:10

Sage

So it was very exciting. It definitely was like, this makes my whole body tingle. Can't wait to show a boy like show him what I've learned and what I know. Look how well-practiced I am. I completely, completely like, I'm going to show you what I what I've practiced this whole time so that was an interesting experience with all my girls.

00:33:27:10 - 00:33:54:21

Sage

And we didn't think anything like of it necessarily. Like it wasn't, like the, the term or the idea of being gay was never even in our minds. It was just like, well, we can't practice with a boy that's on her boyfriend, so we have to practice with each other like it was still matter of fact. Yeah. Which is really funny to think about because this was in like 29, 2009, 1011 is that we're like practicing these things.

00:33:54:23 - 00:34:19:07

Sage

So yeah, the whole gay conversation was not really there. It was just we're practicing. So already in eighth grade, I think this is like where my sexual awakening kind of started. School dances started. And when you're in Waldorf, you have a really small school. But there's a ton of other Waldorf schools around. So it's like you all start going to dances and group activities with all these other classes of all the people your age.

00:34:19:09 - 00:34:47:03

Sage

And there's this one class that had mostly all boys and they were hot. They were so hot, and they were so much more experienced, like they were from this kind of more intense part of town and had like crazy experiences. And, we immediately all started dating each other, like off the bat, like going on small group dates and movie nights and stuff like that.

00:34:47:03 - 00:35:06:09

Sage

And oh, you're getting him this week and I'm dating him this week and whatever. It was just like all that stuff. So I remember during that time I had a phone, not phone. It was like an iPod touch, and I would be up all night texting all these boys and they'd be telling me what first, second, third and fourth base was.

00:35:06:09 - 00:35:32:06

Sage

I didn't know what that was. Or like the most intense, dramatic sexting that still to this day I've ever had. Like, is were like, yeah, one of the most notable ones. He was a Gemini, the communicator and oh yeah, oh my gosh. That went on for about a year. Where were you? Just like, I've never talked about more intense fantasies than with that.

00:35:32:10 - 00:35:55:07

Sage

That guy who were both in eighth grade, like, wow, so much was just laid out and I'm sure he was watching porn, but I'd never seen porn by that time. So I'm just like, oh my gosh, he just knows all these things. So that guy actually was the first for most of my experience experiences sexually. Everything except giving him head.

00:35:55:07 - 00:36:01:01

Sage

So he was my first kiss. He was my first second base, fingering and handjobs.

00:36:01:01 - 00:36:02:02

Luna

In the movie theater.

00:36:02:04 - 00:36:27:19

Sage

Yes, exactly. Movie theater. We eventually even had sex. I wanted it so badly because we had this, like, year long buildup of wanting to have that. And that was great. It ended up not so great because, like I said, all of us were dating each other, right? And at that time, we had moved to high school. I was at a different school.

00:36:28:01 - 00:36:50:05

Sage

He was on and off with one of my best friends, and he was at an awful time when we decided to have sex. And then they immediately started dating again. And she was a virgin. He was a virgin until me. I lost my virginity to him. So that was the whole thing. That was really not cool. And that's like what really spiked my shame.

00:36:50:05 - 00:37:11:00

Sage

I mean, meter initially like to 2020, I actually ended up losing all my friends that I had gotten my whole life from, that they shamed me pretty greatly for that. He never talked to me. It took me like five years to talk to me again. That was intense. But the sex part itself was like, whoa, I finally had sex.

00:37:11:02 - 00:37:12:11

Sage

Damn.

00:37:12:13 - 00:37:15:13

Luna

That's a heavy social repercussion.

00:37:15:15 - 00:37:35:14

Sage

Oh yeah, oh yeah. And then the night after I lost my virginity, I wanted to hang out with him again. But I was, like, in pain because, like, even though it great, it still can hurt. And I was like, I just want to be around you. I want to have sex again. He listened to not anything I said forced himself on me.

00:37:35:16 - 00:38:12:09

Sage

We had sex again. He was like, well, you already done it, so you have to. So like losing my virginity, getting raped, essentially. And then it coming out to all of my childhood middle school friends that. Am this bad person who took my friend's boyfriend away from him. All these things all happened at one, and I, I like to share this because I feel like it's kind of what, like, ignited my hyper sexuality because I was reclaiming what the repercussion was.

00:38:12:09 - 00:38:39:17

Sage

Because it's like if I lost all my friends, I am labeled as this big slut who just can't respect any boundaries. All these things. It's like, well, this disturbance has already been said about me, and I really like sex. I really like how this makes me feel. I really like how this make my body feel so from that point on, I kind of just like was very loose with my feelings.

00:38:39:19 - 00:39:03:11

Sage

Like I didn't want to get attached to another guy. But I loved having sex, so that kind of clouded my, my sexuality for a long time. So I was like, when I meet a new guy, we're not dating, we're not going to get in a relationship, but we can talk all day and do physical things together. So I was like, too scared to get attached to someone again.

00:39:03:13 - 00:39:04:05

Sage

Yeah.

00:39:04:07 - 00:39:23:19

Luna

I would love to hear before we move on to like the next set of details, rewind as to your sex act. So you said you got sex ed starting in fourth grade. How, if at all, did that kind of like, inform any of the explorations that you actually had that were hands on? Like, it sounds like it helped by making you open minded.

00:39:23:21 - 00:39:37:18

Luna

Maybe you got some good information. What do you remember about sex ed? And like, before you got to trying things, it sounds like you talked with girlfriends, but like, did people talk about sex before doing it? Like, tell us both the social education and the school education pieces.

00:39:37:19 - 00:39:57:11

Sage

So it started in fourth grade. In the fourth grade, like it was very like her age. So initially it was just like, boys, come on girls, go another. We're going to talk about periods and then erections. And that was it was one day. And throughout the years it got more and more of like practical in terms of dating and all those things.

00:39:57:11 - 00:40:30:03

Sage

Like I remember by the time we were in eighth grade, it was a weeklong seminar, essentially, and there was this one part where there were four corners, and each corner was like, how comfortable you are with something. So it's like not comfortable at all. Sometimes. And most of the time always. And our teacher who was leading the seminar would like ask questions of like, oh, or they would make statements, I am comfortable with this on the first date.

00:40:30:05 - 00:41:07:05

Sage

And then we would go to whatever corner. And so opening up conversations like that was really, really helpful because she kind of gave us this outlet or this idea of, okay, we all actually are kind of on the same page. It's okay if we are on different pages of what we're comfortable with or not comfortable with. I gave us a language for those type of conversations with someone that's trusted and has taught a million these seminars that we had to send such an early age, talking about the really basic, you know, reproductive of what those organs are all the way up to.

00:41:07:07 - 00:41:35:18

Sage

Okay, we're going on dates. Are you okay with kissing on the first date? Are we okay with holding hands? Are we okay with oral sex? Are going to go all the way. All these things, having conversations with a whole group of people that you knew really well and a trusted adult kind of gave us this rapport that when I went to high school and we had the typical, like, American sex ed and it was only like a week about, oh, you get a sky, you're dying, or look how big the condom goes.

00:41:35:20 - 00:41:38:05

Sage

Yeah.

00:41:38:07 - 00:42:08:17

Sage

Never. That was like, oh, you're taking over my whole I don't want it, you know? It's not too big. Those things weren't really talked about in that way. It wasn't a shame. It was like, here's how you have the birth control, here's how abortions work. Here's how consent works. It was so many conversations that were able to be had that like, by the time that I got into the dating world and having these conversations, it was like, oh, these aren't uncomfortable for me.

00:42:08:17 - 00:42:28:19

Sage

These aren't weird because I already had all of these with a trained professional in front of 30 other people that I know well, like, what's the problem? So I think it definitely helped me a lot, helped me comfortable with my body a lot, especially in a household where I didn't feel like I could go to my mom necessarily for these things.

00:42:28:19 - 00:42:41:16

Sage

I had a place that I could ask these questions that like, I think every pre-teen and teenager wants to ask, and if you don't have that outlet, you're just googling stuff. And that's kind of scary sometimes. Yeah, especially now.

00:42:41:19 - 00:42:42:14

Luna

Increasingly.

00:42:42:14 - 00:42:44:09

Sage

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:42:44:11 - 00:42:45:23

Luna

Wow. Okay, so you.

00:42:46:04 - 00:42:46:14

Sage

You.

00:42:46:14 - 00:42:55:04

Luna

And your peers had this education and yet there still was all this social shaming once, once. Like, it actually happened.

00:42:55:04 - 00:43:14:13

Sage

That's I think that's what hurts the most. That's what I heard the most I think is like, I thought we were all on the same page, but I think we were comfortable talking about it. No one was comfortable doing it, and I was the one that was like I was one that kissed someone first. I was the one that went to second base, third base first.

00:43:14:13 - 00:43:24:11

Sage

So all of those things being first, even though I thought we were all like, we're practicing for her boyfriends, they were like, wait, not yet. Oh, what do you mean how?

00:43:24:12 - 00:43:26:16

Luna

Yeah. Wow.

00:43:26:18 - 00:43:28:07

Sage

Very thing.

00:43:28:09 - 00:43:35:11

Luna

Okay, so any other, like, formative learning pieces that feel important to share. Before we go to your next chapter.

00:43:35:13 - 00:44:00:00

Sage

I think my first, like, kinky experience is something I want to share about. And it was I think I was like 17. I know it was a year between my junior and senior year. There was this guy he had like all Leo placements, like literally like sun, rising Mercury, Venus, all Leo. And then his moon was in Aries and Mars got cancer.

00:44:00:02 - 00:44:43:09

Sage

Anyway, sorry guys, lots of lot of, you know, just like, oh, I'm gonna make you feel so good. I'm going to look so good. We're going to be like, so, like passionate and big. Yeah. Wow. Super romantic. It was so fun. And this man, he unlocked I think my sub kink that I didn't know I had. So I want to speak about like, this one particular sexual experience with him that I think kind of like opened this whole Pandora's box of it's not just mentally stimulating, but the things that are physically super stimulating, like it was the first time that I like, I think probably orgasm from sex genuinely.

00:44:43:11 - 00:45:07:09

Sage

And we or at this party, making out on a couch way too much. So much PDA. And one of the friends whose house it was was like, oh, do you guys want to go in a room? And I was like, I guess, sure. And it was like Tumblr girl Eris. I was wearing this, like, choker, but it was literally a doll collar.

00:45:07:11 - 00:45:40:09

Sage

This pertains to. Sorry, I promise. Okay. And we start having sex, and he's hitting it in the back and grabs the collar and it, like, chokes the hell out of me. And all of a sudden, like, all the endorphins in my body just were like, on level million. Like, everything just felt so much better. And it was like the craziest sensation that I'd ever had up until that point in, like, sex was good with him before that.

00:45:40:11 - 00:46:05:17

Sage

But like that experience just like activated something in me that I was like, I didn't know I liked being choked, I didn't know I liked being restrained, but holy shit. Like this is what sex is like. It was like whole. Oh yeah, in every way. And then afterwards it was so kind and tender. It wasn't aggressive in a mean way.

00:46:05:17 - 00:46:33:00

Sage

It was just passionate and primal and so sexy that after that experience and being with him, it was like, I don't think I can have regular sex ever again. Like, I kind of started seeking out those type of partners. That could kind of take me in that way and be that primal, like just do it in the moment.

00:46:33:02 - 00:46:47:11

Sage

Yeah. It just activated something that I didn't know was possible. So that was mind blowing and beautiful and amazing. And I love him to this day. Like, we're still connected. He's amazing. Man. It sounds like the.

00:46:47:11 - 00:46:53:19

Luna

Collar grabbing which created some choking was a surprise, but it also sounds like you were not scared.

00:46:53:21 - 00:46:54:06

Sage

You know.

00:46:54:08 - 00:47:16:12

Luna

To get that right. Okay. Did you have an awareness of kink like you learned about kink through it, but like, did you already know what it was because you're eight years younger than I am? However, generationally and with where internet had evolved during that, like those formative years, I know that people who were even slightly younger than me or, you know, you can also like, know a whole lot more about kink at a younger age or, yeah, way younger ages.

00:47:16:12 - 00:47:29:03

Luna

I also grew up on a farm, pretty, you know, didn't learn all the things I'm still learning. It's still learning. But, you weren't scared. It sounds like you felt safe even though there was no explicit conversation about choking. Did I get that right?

00:47:29:05 - 00:47:39:23

Sage

I don't think there was an explicit conversation about it, but I do think that he checked in of like, is that okay? Okay. And I was just like melting, like,

00:47:40:01 - 00:47:45:22

Luna

But so did you know what kink was or were you like, what is that? And like, what was your understanding of kink and power dynamic?

00:47:45:22 - 00:48:11:23

Sage

I know I had a Tumblr, okay, I know I had a Tumblr. I know that like, that was my like intro to porn or anything like that. Okay, I think I had oh skins that shows skins at British UK show of skins that kind of lens of sex was something that was like very interesting. Me, I'd watched a lot of sexual movies up at, like I watched a lot of indie movies and things like that.

00:48:12:01 - 00:48:45:14

Sage

At that point, but I don't think I knew the language of kink or anything like that. I didn't have the language, but like, I was interested in all the themes. I just didn't know. That was like a thing real people did. I thought I was like, on the internet or porn stars or things like that, because leading up to this experience, I was really interested in, like watching documentaries about porn stars, researching sex, researching these things, watching really racy teenage things, like angsty stuff.

00:48:45:16 - 00:48:48:21

Sage

So I was like, very interested, but I don't think I had the language for it at all.

00:48:49:01 - 00:48:57:02

Luna

Okay, so did you keep seeing him and like you, you're like, I want more of that. Like, how did you help? What did it do next?

00:48:57:04 - 00:49:14:04

Sage

It was the most classic summer romance. We saw each other the whole summer, and then right before school started, he cut me off. And it was like, out of nowhere, like it wasn't really a conversation. I had to come to him be like, hey, we text every day, and now we're not texting at all. What's going on?

00:49:14:04 - 00:49:35:17

Sage

Like, I called him and he's like, yeah, I just can't do this. I started seeing someone else and dude, I can't do that to you. And I was like, the fuck you already did. Yeah. Like that was that hurt a lot? Yeah. But yeah, it was because we weren't ever, like, officially dating. It was just like, beautiful, wild, crazy hot summer romance.

00:49:35:18 - 00:49:59:10

Sage

But yeah, I didn't continue in the school year. And then I found out, like, years later that a lot of his friends, he was really popular, just prefacing like, prom king, popular. I was not, so I found out that a lot of the other popular girls didn't like me and straight up told him if they saw him with me, he was no longer allowed to, like, be in the cool kid area.

00:49:59:12 - 00:50:03:10

Sage

So that was a just. I didn't learn that till later.

00:50:03:12 - 00:50:04:05

Luna

Wow.

00:50:04:09 - 00:50:07:17

Sage

Okay. So interesting.

00:50:07:19 - 00:50:22:05

Luna

Yeah. So what were your next experiences like? After this? You have another year of high school to go here. You have kinky inklings. And was it a heartbreaker? Was it disappointment or like did you let yourself get attacked? Like how did your emotions kind of apply there?

00:50:22:07 - 00:50:49:14

Sage

It hurt a lot. It really hurt. I felt like we had a really beautiful connection. I felt like it was getting really serious and I came from my older school and went to public schools, where I knew no one on the whole campus. I made friends, but like, I felt like he also kind of was this, like, shining beacon of like, oh, I'm not just like the weird kid from a different school anymore if I'm with them.

00:50:49:16 - 00:51:13:05

Sage

So it was like all the relationship part made me feel great, but also like, oh, maybe I'm not just this outcast anymore from with him. And then that ending was like, yeah, it hurt a lot. But then my next experience was like next level of kink awakening, which also I love to talk about. It was with this guy who he didn't go to our school anymore.

00:51:13:06 - 00:51:33:09

Sage

He had gone there before I came there, but there were rumors about him of like freshman year having sex in the pool, like weird rumors. And that was like most all I knew about him when I couldn't ask people about him. But we somehow connected, I think, on Snapchat, I don't remember exactly how it connected, to be completely honest.

00:51:33:09 - 00:51:58:22

Sage

But I know we started talking online and finally were able to meet up and he takes me to this true trap house apartment, literally like nothing in there. Kind of crazy. Like, it was a weird environment, but I was like, I get to hang out with him finally. Oh my God. Like, to me, he was the coolest guy in the whole world and the hottest.

00:51:58:22 - 00:52:18:02

Sage

And just everything about it was like, oh, so good. Now I love chatting to him. So anyway, we hang out, I'm with all these, like his friends that are also like a little bit older and cool, and they none of them are in regular high school. And they all have like jobs that are like kind of underbelly jobs.

00:52:18:02 - 00:52:39:03

Sage

Right? And that was just very interesting to me off the bat. But when it was time to go to bed and it was just him and I, and I had been tension building the whole day that we were together, it was like, oh, I just want to like, grab everything about him. But he was very kind of like cool, calm, collected, standoffish physically until we were alone.

00:52:39:03 - 00:53:08:19

Sage

And then I don't even know how sex started, but we had sex for four hours straight, four hours straight. We had sex and it was like the most intense mind blowing, like, whoa, I didn't know bodies could do this together. He was really strong and a lot bigger than me. Like taller. So he could, like, throw at me and put me in positions and possible.

00:53:08:21 - 00:53:31:12

Sage

His dick was so much bigger than anything that I'd experienced, but I was so turned on like it worked and it was, like, painful, but in a really good way. And again, it was kind of like like the restraining and the choking, but in a healthy way. And like, all of that allowed me to be able to deal with his penetration and a level that I didn't know was possible.

00:53:31:14 - 00:54:00:14

Sage

So it was like kind of pushing me to my edge physically and like doing quick water breaks and a lot of checking in of like making sure I'm okay, but then removing himself so quickly from that situation, like physically that I was like, clamoring for more and then it'd be like, pull in again. So there's a lot of like push and pull that I think made that previous experience like, that wasn't it.

00:54:00:14 - 00:54:22:08

Sage

That was just the tip of the iceberg. Like, I didn't even know my body could be pushed to these limits. And I was like, Holy shit, this is amazing. So I think those two experiences are kind of what, like, set off my whole like, oh, I really do like the restraints and begging for more because they're taking it away from me.

00:54:22:08 - 00:54:35:09

Sage

But then I'll do anything for you if because you keep taking it away, but then making it so good, like it was a lot of that push and pull that kind of activated the rest of my sex life, to be honest. Wow. Okay.

00:54:35:11 - 00:54:39:21

Luna

So you're still at the end of your teens in this part, right?

00:54:39:23 - 00:54:41:01

Sage

Okay. Wow.

00:54:41:02 - 00:55:10:19

Luna

And you learned so much. So much. I mean, divine timing for everyone. Literally, though, I can't like I feel my own little comparison monsters come up and I'm like, oh, I was still getting rejected until I was like, no, no. Good, good. So okay, so how how did these early learnings shape your coming years? Like, how did we get from these experiences to like you helping partners understand consent and kink and really fun sex like fill in the gaps for us.

00:55:10:19 - 00:55:12:08

Luna

Whatever feels important.

00:55:12:10 - 00:55:35:02

Sage

Totally. So right after high school because that one partner, the for our sex partner, ended up getting his act pregnant. Oh, that relates to my intro. Oh yeah. The whole time him and I were talking, he was still with his partner, who we ended up having a kid with and lied to me the whole time. And she even was did that classic hey girl thing in my DMs.

00:55:35:02 - 00:55:56:09

Sage

And I called him and I was like, what's up? You told me that they you guys broke up and he's like, yeah, she's just fucking insane. Ignore her. They had a kid together. Wow. Okay. Like, I know that he got her pregnant by someone else in my school rent, not even knowing him and I were talking and I was like, whole heart sink.

00:55:56:11 - 00:56:24:03

Sage

So sad. Oh, I can't, My God, it was, like, just ripped away for me. So after that, the last week of high school, I met my ex who him and I were together on and off for like 5 or 6 years. So he was my, like, first, like, real, real relationship. I learned so much with him, did so much with him, but he wasn't someone that I've necessarily explored a lot of kink or sex with.

00:56:24:05 - 00:56:53:08

Sage

Our relationship was like learning about spirituality. We did a lot of mushrooms and psychedelics together. I learned about Kundalini and eating and semen retention and all of that. Through him. We explored those things together. So kind of like turned off the whole slut factor, take me factor. And it turned into like a very okay, let me connect with someone emotionally.

00:56:53:12 - 00:57:15:15

Sage

So it's like, this is the first person after that whole cycle cycle of like high school can't really trust, but also like awesome kinky sex. I learned how to like, emotionally connect again. Yeah, we didn't have sex that often, but when we did, it was like very loving. I learned how to have sex eyes open for the first time.

00:57:15:17 - 00:57:44:16

Sage

Oh wow. Or like making eye contact during sex. I couldn't do that before. It was like, so, like porn star ish physically. And then with him, it was like he was very big on, like, you will make eye contact with me and you will look at me deeply connect. What was that like for you? It was really weird because I had just figured out like, oh, I need all these, like, restrictive sensations and like, mind games to it off.

00:57:44:16 - 00:58:00:03

Sage

And now I have to fully drop into my body actually, and have slow in my head vanilla sex that isn't that exciting, that isn't that crazy. But like, well, we are connecting physically to.

00:58:00:03 - 00:58:01:02

Luna

Different intensity.

00:58:01:06 - 00:58:23:15

Sage

Completely different intensity. And like having sex on psychedelics. I don't know if I would recommend that to anyone, but like for us, that was a huge unlocking factor of learning how to be vulnerable emotionally because that was something that I wasn't doing. I was talking about all these emotions with these things, but I wasn't feeling any of them.

00:58:23:15 - 00:58:41:18

Sage

And then with him, it was a first time, I think probably ever, that I was like safe emotionally, long term. It wasn't just like a fleeting moment thing. It was, oh, wow, he's really there and he's staying there and all of that. So that was beautiful.

00:58:41:20 - 00:58:44:08

Luna

I got to ask some nerdy questions.

00:58:44:10 - 00:58:44:20

Sage

Please.

00:58:45:02 - 00:58:53:08

Luna

Do you know what your progressed moon was doing at the time and how what water was in his chart? And like, what water is in your chart?

00:58:53:08 - 00:58:54:07

Sage

I have zero.

00:58:54:09 - 00:59:12:14

Luna

Okay, okay. Because because for our listeners, water is emotion. And, you know, the deep, deep feeling. I'm a Pisces moon. I'm a deeply sensitive creature. I just happen to be highly functional. I have a first house full of like Capricorn that can do and get the work done. I'm so curious. Yeah, I mean, probably off the top of your head.

00:59:12:14 - 00:59:22:02

Luna

Do you know what your progressed moon and like? Is it a progressed moon in any water sign? Like during the course of, you know, I had to be somewhere for probably a couple different signs, I think.

00:59:22:04 - 00:59:26:11

Sage

I think towards the end of our relationship is in Scorpio okay okay.

00:59:26:11 - 00:59:29:11

Luna

So right relationship and going into the emotion into the deep down.

00:59:29:11 - 00:59:34:04

Sage

Yes. And then yeah, I don't think at the beginning of our relationship it was in any water.

00:59:34:04 - 00:59:40:12

Luna

Scientists believe it would be Libra before that though. But that makes perfect sense of like finding the balance you know.

00:59:40:14 - 00:59:41:12

Sage

Yeah. For yeah.

00:59:41:13 - 00:59:44:22

Luna

Before Libra is Virgo if you're exploring you know like this is just.

00:59:44:23 - 01:00:20:06

Sage

Guessing but I think yeah. But yeah I think that the end of our relationship it was in Scorpio okay. And so his water placements Scorpio moon Venus in Pisces Saturn in Pisces. Wow okay. Yeah. So and he's all fine otherwise like Aries sun or not not all fire. Every sun. Aries. Mercury, Mars and Leo like mine. And so he was a very, like, fiery person, but had that like deep Scorpio moon, which is like so intense and secretive.

01:00:20:06 - 01:00:39:11

Sage

And I don't open up easily, but when I do it, it's like you're mine. And that was so different for me because no one, it felt like no one claimed me before him, and he finally claimed me and I was like, oh, this is actually what I wanted. Holy shit. So even though I don't have this like crazy fun sex life is like.

01:00:39:13 - 01:00:46:01

Sage

But I get to be yours. And it was like, oh my God, so good, so good.

01:00:46:03 - 01:00:54:08

Luna

What a huge learning. And where in your timeline did you learn that you weren't? But am I jumping ahead too far? I'm like, I don't want to. I want to make sure I didn't miss it.

01:00:54:10 - 01:01:14:14

Sage

Okay, so that relationship was like collectively six years, but there was a lot of on and off breaking up very toxic and a lot of like fighting ways, a lot of abuse in a lot of ways even I was so held, it was a lot of back and forth. Think that's why I stayed through a lot of the abuse, because it was like, but I get to be yours.

01:01:14:16 - 01:01:33:14

Sage

But I think during one of those times where we were broken up and it was like a nine month, two year long breakup, that's when I got on dating apps and found you and all of that. And so during that time, I had a friend. She's actually still my friend. She's the one who introduced me to the father of my child.

01:01:33:16 - 01:01:56:22

Sage

I always loved her. She's this gorgeous, shining light in my life. We don't see each other off the moon when we do. With great. And I've always known that she was bi. So there was this one time where I went to her place. She lived in the Bay area. I was staying with her for a little while, and I was in my, like, kink X exploration on dating apps, finding you all these things.

01:01:56:23 - 01:02:17:22

Sage

But my mind was just like, we're turned on again with sex, right? And there was one night where just super plainly came out and said it was like, hey, so I've never had sex with a girl, and if I were, I would want to have sex with you. And just a quote, we can make that happen. But my partner's got to be there because she was in a partner relationship.

01:02:17:22 - 01:02:39:17

Sage

But it was like open. So it's like, but that sounds awesome. Like I can still have a comfortable like male partner, but I could also be with you. This is awesome. I kissed her a ton of times up at that point. Like we were super like lovey dovey, comfortable with each other. We met at a rave. So like that, that relationship was there.

01:02:39:19 - 01:02:58:03

Sage

But, we had a threesome and it was really fun. But I kept finding myself like only wanting to kiss her, but not wanting to do anything below the waist. And she was doing it to me and I was like, oh, like the whole time in my head I was like, I should be doing stuff back to her.

01:02:58:03 - 01:03:16:00

Sage

But I'm not down. I'm like, I just didn't feel it, like I was just I was actually almost confused with myself because I was like, dang, I really thought that I was turned on by her and that she's so gorgeous and so beautiful, but I don't want to touch her vagina at all. And I would and be like, I don't know what I'm doing.

01:03:16:00 - 01:03:37:05

Sage

This feels weird. Like I have a vagina. I should know what I'm doing, but I'm just I'm not even interested necessarily in like stopping this and asking questions, which is not the type of person that I am. So it wasn't a bad experience. I'm really happy that I did it, but like kind of learned after that that I was like, I am such a give and take.

01:03:37:07 - 01:03:59:14

Sage

I want it to be. I want it to feel equal, that if I'm not willing to even ask or like, try that this is not really for me. Yeah, I've had a few other experiences. It was like another experience in the past with someone that was a girl. We were going to try in front of the boyfriend, and that also just was like, gnarly making out.

01:03:59:14 - 01:04:15:20

Sage

So fun. And I love touching a bit and this is so fun. But like, you don't really need to touch me and I'll let you touch you down there. And so it felt like, I don't know, I was just I'm not going to I'm not a taker. And I've been around other women who are by their like, I'll just do everything to you.

01:04:15:20 - 01:04:35:01

Sage

And I'm like, but that doesn't feel right to me. Like, if I'm not doing this to you, we don't need to do this. So yeah, that was interesting though, because I always thought that I was probably bi, especially from those like, very beginning experiences of who I make up with girls and more practicing for guys. So I probably am bi because I've had all these like experiences that really turned me on.

01:04:35:03 - 01:04:46:18

Sage

But then, yeah, anything that came below the waist, I was like, oh yeah, you're not turned on by this and actually turns you off. So I guess we're not I haven't touched on yes.

01:04:46:19 - 01:04:59:12

Luna

With the phrase that I'm fully making this up. Maybe someone else has made it up before. I don't know, maybe it exist. I don't know above the waist by resonate because it sounds like making out as if it's a turn on above the waist, but it's got a.

01:04:59:12 - 01:05:01:12

Sage

Ring I don't know, I like.

01:05:01:14 - 01:05:04:10

Luna

I like that I.

01:05:04:12 - 01:05:08:14

Sage

Oh, I love that because, yeah, like I love making out with girls.

01:05:08:16 - 01:05:12:06

Luna

They're so soft and pretty and boobies are nice.

01:05:12:08 - 01:05:18:14

Sage

Literally like all of that is that. Oh, I feel so good. Yeah. But yeah the waist. And so yeah.

01:05:18:16 - 01:05:35:00

Luna

I also have felt the pressure of like, I should know what to do because I have a pussy. And I've interviewed so many people that are like, well, I have a pussy, so I know what to do. And I'm like, well, I've interviewed and touched so many people and I know that so many pussies are so vastly different.

01:05:35:00 - 01:06:04:20

Luna

So I don't know what to do, you know? And I have to have a person who I want to communicate with and who I feel comfortable communicating with, because I definitely have had partners that we're exploring and in their own comfort levels and all of it's fun. Like, I think, I think all explorations between two parties who are open with themselves and on the same page are, are worthy, you know, and with one of my past partners who was totally open and honest about she was exploring, she was curious, you know, and we didn't have a whole bunch of communication.

01:06:04:20 - 01:06:20:01

Luna

And so I was like, you know, we kind of found the vibe, but I was like, I don't really know. And, you know, I kind of maybe she was like having an okay time, but I could tell that she was like somewhere else. And then I think she's like, well, thank you for that. I think I'm just really straight.

01:06:20:03 - 01:06:22:07

Luna

And I was like, that's totally fine.

01:06:22:09 - 01:06:22:18

Sage

All good.

01:06:22:19 - 01:06:42:05

Luna

Like, you know, it's like it was cute. We hugged all of that. But, yeah, I mean, I especially for someone like you where communication is so important, I can absolutely understand how not feeling the impetus to be like, where do I what do y you know would be. And also, I've talked to so many people whose sexualities have fluctuated throughout their lifetimes.

01:06:42:05 - 01:06:45:21

Luna

So I always just hold a maybe for everyone.

01:06:45:23 - 01:07:14:02

Sage

Yeah. You know that actually I think I just had an moment. So thank you. I just realized I have never been intimate with a woman without a man there. Oh, I think that actually might be a pretty big factor where it's like a performance for the guy. And I'm wondering if I actually was having sex with another woman, and it was just us.

01:07:14:04 - 01:07:32:20

Sage

And it wasn't for the sky or in front of him, the boyfriend or my boyfriend or whatever. Know that would have a completely different effect. Because when you're in this like threesome dynamic and they're already by, they've already had sex with a lot of other women. Yeah. The guy is like, oh, I'm going to do this for you too.

01:07:32:20 - 01:07:35:21

Sage

Like, I think there's too much going on.

01:07:35:21 - 01:08:01:02

Luna

It's overstimulating for me sometimes. Yeah, I love threesomes, and if I'm with a couple and they're doing that, I fucking love threesomes. And it's a completely different experience from the dropped in intimacy of a single partner to explore with. And I do find it more difficult to explore parts of myself and an individual because there are so many more dynamics and I'm such a sensitive creature that I'm like, I'll look at you, I'll look at you.

01:08:01:02 - 01:08:20:18

Luna

You know, in tracking two people. That's why I even no longer do interviews with more than one person. You know, I've done a couple in the past. They're so difficult for my brain, like. And I really want to give people. Okay, well, divine timing, no rush. It's monogamous right now. That's all fine, but, I would be curious.

01:08:20:18 - 01:08:22:15

Luna

I would just be curious to know.

01:08:22:15 - 01:08:48:22

Sage

I think that's just I never thought about it like that, but. Yeah. Yeah, because I've, I've even had another, like, partner play with that same girl with my now partner. Like, it was like, you know, two couples type vibe and we like kind of played and all of that. But again there's two men watching and I think, wow, wow.

01:08:48:23 - 01:09:13:01

Sage

Okay. I actually am like kind of reestablish my, my definition because I would love to have threesomes way more, but I think I probably need to have sex with a girl and it's just us and not a guy there, because that might completely change the dynamic. And like, have the space to have those conversations that I don't feel like when we're all just like in the heat of the moment, those conversations don't necessarily happen.

01:09:13:01 - 01:09:19:06

Sage

There's not that space to just like, hold on. You go over here, man. Yeah, yeah, well, you think your boyfriend is.

01:09:19:11 - 01:09:54:00

Luna

One of the things that I really love about one on one connection. And this is not to say I do not love group connection. They are two unique, incomparable circumstances. And the thing that I really treasure about one on one connections is I typically get deeper amount of information from a person when it's just me and them. And what I've noticed from accidentally stumbling into group dynamics is that just because I have shared deep information with one party and deep information with another party, and I know through those deep shares that they also have shared that information with each other.

01:09:54:06 - 01:10:14:03

Luna

There's something that happens in the triangulation where I should not share those depths or even acknowledge those depths among the three of us. So there is always a shift that I notice occurs. And I again, I'm a highly sensitive creature. I love groups, they're tough for me. You know, I am in spaces now where sometimes I, I'm the magnet that creates a group.

01:10:14:03 - 01:10:32:13

Luna

And sometimes I'm like, well, can I just splice all five of you off and have each of you in the hot tub for like 20 minutes at a time? You know, like those groups are totally different, dynamic and different parts of people, including in sexual situations and not limited to sexual situations. I think there is such a group norm.

01:10:32:13 - 01:10:53:11

Luna

This is all fresh noodle. I'm not I'm not an authority here. But what I think I'm noticing is that I'm less judgmental than most people. So most people feel very comfortable to be themselves. And then in a group dynamic, we all have to make sure that we're kind of like sinking up enough because we're social creatures. And so then it's kind of defaulting to the least vulnerable certainty, if that makes sense.

01:10:53:11 - 01:11:08:03

Luna

Like the, you know, if we haven't gone deep. So, I don't know, I would be curious. I would be curious to hear if that exploration unfolds for you. And at the very least, I think holding space for curious noodles is such a Gemini Rising thing. And with other I mean, oh.

01:11:08:05 - 01:11:37:09

Sage

You know, honestly thank you. Like I oh my gosh, that that just completely unlocked a whole new thing because let's talk about my partner currently because I think this has a huge part of this conversation. So one of the things that really intrigued me about him initially was I again, I met him through this friend that the woman that I had sex with and right off the bat, like one of our first like deep conversations was, oh yeah, I have sex parties with my friends all the time.

01:11:37:09 - 01:11:56:07

Sage

Like, we all have been hell raised together. We've done a lot of money together. It's just like a thing that we're all comfortable with and known each other for like 15 plus years. It's no big deal. My last partner was bi. We would have new people in our relationship all the time, but we had really clear boundaries.

01:11:56:09 - 01:12:36:18

Sage

So all of that sounded like very exciting to me because I was like, oh, cool. Like, I can be in this monogamous relationship. But then, like, it's still open and we have the keys experience with this. He's not a jealous per se type, which I had experienced in a previous relationship. And so it's very exciting. But there's also been this like pressure of, I just wish you were bi so we can invite another girl in because I after I come get tired and you guys can keep playing because girls have so much more energy sexually while I recharge and then I can jump back in.

01:12:36:20 - 01:13:04:15

Sage

And that mentally sounds exciting. But since I've never been with a woman one on one, I'm like, again, that block comes up with like, oh, but like, I don't know about this. Yeah. And I don't know how I feel if you two are able to have this sexual chemistry and I'm not. And those type of dynamics. And so it's kind of almost put up a wall of like, absolutely not.

01:13:04:15 - 01:13:14:15

Sage

I am not into woman because I'm so excited for me to be into women that it's almost like a very Aquarius, like, don't tell me what to do. Don't tell me who I am.

01:13:14:17 - 01:13:25:22

Luna

Any sort of pressure for me is not hot, even if it's exactly what I would have wanted to do. If suddenly now someone is like expecting a thing in a way that feels.

01:13:26:00 - 01:13:26:23

Sage

Like there's a.

01:13:27:02 - 01:13:34:23

Luna

I don't want to call it a like a lack of curiosity. Like if I feel like I have to perform at all, I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, no, thank you. I'll just run away.

01:13:35:01 - 01:13:50:16

Sage

Yeah, exactly. And it's like, it's so funny because I love performing, but don't force me to. I naturally want to step into that role of performance. Not I am being asked to put on a show that I wasn't prepared for and I didn't have a script for.

01:13:50:17 - 01:13:53:18

Luna

Yeah, now I don't want to be a dance monkey dance without preparation.

01:13:53:18 - 01:14:20:20

Sage

You're exactly, exactly like, I don't know. So I think that's like a huge aspect of what kind of like, solidified that title for myself of like, nope, not happening. Was his kind of persist. And he's a very like. He's also a Scorpio moon with a ton of fire and a ton of Capricorn, like 4 or 5 planets in Capricorn, including Saturn.

01:14:20:22 - 01:14:39:21

Sage

So it's like very daddy mode. He's also a lot, but not a lot, but a good amount older than me. And I've had so many more relationships and experiences in me that it's like he technically does have an authority to say, I have done this so I know better, but that just activates every defense of like, no, you don't know me.

01:14:39:21 - 01:14:44:16

Sage

He doesn't. Even if he does, it's like, I want to fight back and say, no, you don't.

01:14:44:21 - 01:14:51:21

Luna

Totally. And no one will know your own inner authority better than you. Yeah, even if you're still getting to know it, you know.

01:14:51:23 - 01:15:10:23

Sage

Exactly. So he stopped pushing that on me. Like we've had conversations and we've gone past it and it's cool, but it's also something that I still want to explore. Like I do want to explore those those things. And also like, well, a lot of the time when he brings it up, then it's like automatically I go to, okay, so I can be another guy in.

01:15:11:00 - 01:15:19:23

Sage

Yeah, right. You want to bring another girl? I'll bring another guy. Like, let's go. Like I got I got desires as well, like I've had, I've also had a threesome with two guys.

01:15:20:01 - 01:15:24:06

Luna

Oh you have I still haven't. Oh. What was it? Life. Can you pause and tell us, please?

01:15:24:07 - 01:15:45:10

Sage

Oh, that was freaking amazing. So this was this guy that I had slept with, like, once or twice before, I don't remember. We met at a bar of super drunk, but it was great. It was great sex. And he was like, very forward at the bar, like, literally like walked through a whole crowd to me and like, I want you to know, like, oh, okay.

01:15:45:12 - 01:16:01:14

Sage

So it was like fun interaction from immediately. And he had a friend that was with him at the bar. So like, I met him and even when we went back and had sex for the first time, we were in like in a hotel room and it was like to bed and we both were having sex with our individual partners.

01:16:01:19 - 01:16:21:05

Sage

So I already knew this other guy for like a month or something. We met up randomly at the bar again, and they kind of like proposed to me of like, hey, we both want to take you home tonight. And I was like, what? Really? Like, I feel like it's hard to find two guys that are straight that want to do this.

01:16:21:05 - 01:16:32:20

Sage

Like, because it's always been a fantasy to me to have both guys seem like, oh my God, please. But I just felt like I couldn't find two guys that were actually down to not compete with each other.

01:16:32:22 - 01:16:34:17

Luna

We're chemistry. Absolutely.

01:16:34:17 - 01:16:58:09

Sage

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And apparently they already have like a history of them. Oh, I think they're both sex workers in some form like OnlyFans or something. I don't remember exactly what their history is, but I know they're both like very comfortable with these aspects. And so then proposing I was like, I've kind of been wanting this forever. Like you had no idea you said the exact right thing.

01:16:58:14 - 01:17:24:05

Sage

So I went back to the house and that was just an amazing experience. Like having both ends stimulated the whole time and like not having a break because I have a very high capacity to go a really long time sexually. Yep. And like I go longer than most guys. It's funny because I've talked to a lot of girls and they're like, I just wish you could finish.

01:17:24:05 - 01:17:32:11

Sage

And I'm like, if it's good, I never want to finish. Like until I'm physically like hurting. I don't want to go right.

01:17:32:13 - 01:17:40:05

Luna

I get in touch ups and I'm like, more touches, more touches, more touches. I'll be tired, I'll fall off and I'll be like, I still know.

01:17:40:05 - 01:17:58:12

Sage

Completely, completely. It's like, until you hate it. So yeah, having both men was like, so great. They kind of controlled the whole thing, which is all I ever want. It's fine. I don't want to think. Just tell me what to do and I'll do it. And since the initial guy and I already had that, like, I knew we had good chemistry, actually, yeah.

01:17:58:12 - 01:18:13:17

Sage

When that happened, it was like, oh, this is possible. So then with current partner, when it's like, oh, you want to bring in another girl? Okay. I'm don't think I'm necessarily gay. You don't think that you're gay. But like, if we're both doing this for each other, then like we got to make it even.

01:18:13:19 - 01:18:20:04

Luna

I love that. Oh, I love that. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't like one way streets. I don't do one way streets.

01:18:20:06 - 01:18:42:15

Sage

No. Exactly. So it's a funny little conversation that, Yeah, we're rebuilding trust for that to even be an option. But when it does, like whether it happens with sex parties or two couples or whatever it ends up with, I'm like, as long as we can be equal, I am okay with this. This is fine. Yeah.

01:18:42:17 - 01:18:46:19

Luna

I want to hear you talk about sex in love and lust.

01:18:46:21 - 01:19:16:07

Sage

Okay, so I feel like they're two completely different animals. I feel like sex and lust. Very much like the kink side of things. Because, like I said, I'm really good at asking what those are. Setting the boundaries, establishing safe words, all of that. And I'm kind of more comfortable establishing those things before the feelings. Right? So that aspect is like a very erotic and exciting and we can go all night type of thing.

01:19:16:07 - 01:19:35:00

Sage

But then since I don't have that emotional intimacy or connection, I can kind of do okay with not seeing them for a while. And then when we see each other again, it's just like very exciting and passionate. But like, I recognize that our lives are not aligned in that way. We both aren't really in a space to be in a relationship, yadda yadda.

01:19:35:00 - 01:20:03:16

Sage

So that lust aspect is like, oh, when I see you, it's going to be so activated and turned on. But then I'm not too concerned. Neither of us are too concerned of what's going on otherwise in our life versus love. Because now I've had like three pretty stable, serious, loving relationships. We've, like, built that connection and trust. It's so much slower and it's so much more like soft and sweet.

01:20:03:18 - 01:20:29:19

Sage

And even if it can't get primal, it's like, I don't need all the extras. I don't need all the restraints or anything like that, unless we're having sex, like every single day, then I need that eventually. But it's like just that softness and the eye contact that's also huge is like, if I don't know you super well, we're not going to be making deep eye contact during sex.

01:20:29:21 - 01:20:53:19

Sage

Whereas if I know you very well, it's like it's just so much softer. And I feel like a lot of women that I've talked to, that's the only way that they can get into that kink aspect is that they have that first. But for me, I need so much more groundwork to establish that soft side of me. And I would rather just go all in like, like aggressive sex.

01:20:53:21 - 01:21:01:07

Sage

And then that softness opens up over time. It's very interesting, though. It's like it's like two completely different animals that you're dealing with.

01:21:01:09 - 01:21:16:10

Luna

I love hearing you talk about it and, you know, and I can't help but noodle on my own experiences that I hear you share because I'm like, oh my God, I am the weirdo that wants to stare at everyone in the eyeballs. Part of that is because I was a headshot photographer for many, many years and I will.

01:21:16:10 - 01:21:34:02

Luna

I've always just been. I feel like if I look at people's eyeballs, then I can understand them better, like their words. And that's I'm still wrong a lot. It's fine. And, you know, but. And during sex. Oh, totally. Like staring eyeballs. And I've had to, you know, learn to clock when people are just comfortable and look away.

01:21:34:02 - 01:21:50:14

Luna

And then I will be like, oh, right, I'll go over here, you know, and that softness is so beautiful. And it helps me kind of realize that there are many different ways in for all people. And now that you're saying and I'm like, oh, I've clocked this in different partners and, you know, I am a Pisces moon, like I have an ocean of love for everyone.

01:21:50:16 - 01:22:18:01

Luna

And I have not been in deeply committed partnership that has like long term trust building, in a while. So, you know, that's it's a totally different texture. And I love hearing distinctions, and I love hearing the parts of you that need softness and the awareness around that, too, because it comes from all sides. Wow. Okay. I really want to hear about why it didn't work for you to be a sugar baby.

01:22:18:03 - 01:22:44:14

Sage

Okay, so I think it was right around the time I turned 18. I was trying to find ways to make money, and I had some friends who would go on. I can't remember seeking arrangement that classic Sugar Baby site and the way they prefaced it to me, because they were like, oh, I make so much money. They were doing things that I never considered sex at all.

01:22:44:16 - 01:23:09:09

Sage

What for? Like, oh, if I just send them like a picture in my bra, but then talk to him all day? He sent me exorbitant amount of money and I'm like, oh my God, this is the greatest thing ever. Because all I can do is talk perfect and boobs. Okay, cool. In a bra, that's nothing. So fast forward to like for the next like five years on and off, I would check into this site and be like, I'm going to be a sugar baby.

01:23:09:09 - 01:23:37:17

Sage

And I get to essentially get paid just to talk, and I don't have to do anything. I don't have to meet up with anyone. It's like basically anonymous da da da da da da. And I goddamn could. I never find anyone that was willing to pay me just to talk to them. So eventually I ended up meeting up with someone who told me all these plans of, I'm going to take you to a five star restaurant.

01:23:37:19 - 01:23:57:05

Sage

I just want you to look so good on my arm. I'm going to pay you X amount of money just to do that. Did it just meet me at my house first and then I'll drive us together. And I was like, okay, that sounds perfect. Get to his house. Very. Not looking like you have any money to spend house.

01:23:57:07 - 01:24:14:21

Sage

So, like, how are you? I don't know that I should have left her then, but I didn't. And then it was like I just went into this whole thing where we ended up not going to dinner. We ended up not doing anything. And he essentially just wanted to use a vibrator on me up on top of my jeans.

01:24:14:23 - 01:24:23:18

Sage

And then I was like, okay, I'm going to go now. This is not what I signed up for. You want to pay me? And he just gave me $50 and I.

01:24:23:18 - 01:24:25:14

Luna

Oh, that's a bait.

01:24:25:14 - 01:24:52:00

Sage

And so my cell phone. Yeah. And I didn't have a car so I like paid for my Uber to get there and back. All of it. Like that was really shitty. Fast forward to like, I think a year and a half, maybe two years later, I tried again and essentially the same thing happened where I was like, promised so much money, such great dinner and drove pretty far to get there.

01:24:52:02 - 01:25:14:23

Sage

I don't know how I wasn't ever scared for my safety, but I wasn't. And we have dinner. It was fine, but I wasn't paid until like we go hang out at his house and I was like, well, I need gas in my car. So like, sure, he filled up again. I think that was cool. Get back to his house and he had all these, like, huge, lofty things of like, I own so many properties and I'm so wealthy and blah blah blah, blah blah.

01:25:15:01 - 01:25:38:20

Sage

It was the crappiest house I've ever seen in my life. He ended up not wanting to give me money until we have sex. And I was like, okay, that's not part of the deal. And he's like, no one on this site does anything unless they have sex. Like no one gets paid. It's impossible. I've had a million sugar babies, and that's the only way any of them ever get paid.

01:25:38:20 - 01:25:58:16

Sage

So if you don't do this, you're leaving, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I really needed money at that time, which is why I, like, went out there. I didn't have a job, so we ended up having sex. It took a lot to convince him to use a condom, which was crazy to me. Finally convinced him. Worst, weirdest sex of my life.

01:25:58:18 - 01:26:17:07

Sage

Still didn't pay me till the next morning, and it was like a quarter of what he promised me. So after just two failed experiences, I was like, okay, I'm not for me, not for me, not for me. Like if I was signing up to have paid sex. Okay, I get that. I learned from friends after like you always get paid beforehand.

01:26:17:07 - 01:26:43:04

Sage

I learned so many things after totally of how to like go about that. But I was promised the easiest, most extravagant form of sugar baby of like, all these things never was sex. All this money and instead like paid so little for so much more than I signed up for. And after that, I was just like, yeah, we're going to get off this one time.

01:26:43:08 - 01:27:07:06

Sage

Yeah, yeah. So yeah. Then also, like, I can't lie, I'm really bad at lying. So I'm telling a man that I'm not into all these things about him that I don't believe. That's not my jam. I have friends that are, like, really awesome dominatrix who can, like, completely curate this whole their personality. That isn't what they feel or think at all, but like, they can do it.

01:27:07:06 - 01:27:17:03

Sage

And it worked so well for them. And I'm still like, that's awesome. But that's not me. Like, if I don't feel a genuine connection, I'm not going to, I can't lie, I'm really bad at lying.

01:27:17:07 - 01:27:43:20

Luna

I totally feel that. And I will say I've done some deep dive research, both directly and through talking to many other sugar babies and like, heaven bless any lady who can make it work for her and have it feel good. But what I've found is overwhelmingly the clients. Well, shall we call them that are on those sites are like the most unconscious, like they are lying to themselves first and foremost.

01:27:43:20 - 01:28:14:19

Luna

Like they're lying to you, spinning, spinning these truths, which is very different from someone who's straight up like, no, I'm not going to do dating. I want to pay for sex, you know? And so the sugar world is a very specific I've discovered, kind of it's a web of implicit communication, and I'm simply not built for it because I'm a little too honest and a little too direct and a little too like I, I was under the impression that you want to have a nice relationship with me and give me an allowance, and they don't want a relationship and they don't want to give the allowance like it's a very strange, you know.

01:28:14:19 - 01:28:19:05

Luna

So I went on a lot of weird dinners.

01:28:19:06 - 01:28:40:12

Sage

Yeah, yeah. And then you're like, oh yeah, the allowance part isn't real. And whoa, oh my God. Yeah, yeah. It was just so different than what I expected it. And again, it's like if I was wanting to sign up to have sex for money, that's a different clientele, that's a different world. And I wasn't signing up for that in my head.

01:28:40:12 - 01:28:45:17

Sage

And so, yeah, the fact that it turned into that was like, oh, And I think, you know.

01:28:45:19 - 01:29:04:00

Luna

Slippery slope. Yeah, I did, I did have a friend who, well, with my strategic counsel, like, definitely sex was on the table in this connection, but like, you know, I wasn't able to ever carry things out successfully for myself, but I was able to help a few other people, like strategic receive more money, you know, with some of that.

01:29:04:00 - 01:29:14:06

Luna

So, you know, we take it all. And the curious part of me is like, so glad that you did the exploration. I mean, I don't know, I don't know if Gemini operates that way for you, but like, I'm just like, oh.

01:29:14:08 - 01:29:35:15

Sage

So curious. So no, I just I wanted to know, like, I was like, is this real? Because I'm, I'm such a person that unless I experience it myself, sharing stories is cool, but I like I need to explore by myself and I need to try it twice. Like I thought the first time. That was a one off experience, which is why I've had sex with girls twice at least.

01:29:35:15 - 01:29:51:03

Sage

Which is why I went on another date with the sugar baby thing, which is there's so many things that I need to try at least twice to be like, okay, yeah, actually that's not for me. And then getting more insights also is like, maybe I could try it again with this new lens. And so yeah, it's definitely all about the exploration.

01:29:51:03 - 01:30:07:13

Sage

And I don't I don't regret those experiences. But it, it was vastly different than what I was promised. Do it. Damn it, I thought I did the research. I didn't though.

01:30:07:15 - 01:30:20:16

Luna

Is there anything else you want to say about kinks or, like, experiences? Like what else feels like important to say in this version? To, you know, complete the picture of you, like, we got to talk about at least. At the very least.

01:30:20:18 - 01:30:46:20

Sage

Yeah. So being able to have like a back and forth conversation about, like, with men who have explored a lot of their kinks and figuring out how their brain works and what turns them on. It's it's truly different with so many different partners. So I've learned for myself that there's certain partners that pure brat comes out where it's like they piss me off.

01:30:46:20 - 01:31:16:20

Sage

They don't give me what I want. I have known them for a while, and there's always just kind of this, like, back and forth, shit talking type of personality that in the bedroom it relates to withholding and almost like forcing, but in like a consensual way, but like forcing me to do things and I'm like, no, I just want to have sex down there like, no, I'm going to keep doing this or you're going to keep looking my dick or whatever until I say that you're allowed to.

01:31:16:22 - 01:31:42:05

Sage

And so that dynamic is like, oh, it's so exhilarating, and it feels so good. And it's like by the time that they finally let me take it out of their mouth or stop, like fingering me or something like that. Like by the time I finally get to have sex, like, penetrative sex is like, okay, now I'm no, no, I'm fully anything you want is yours.

01:31:42:05 - 01:32:14:00

Sage

I will give it to you. And then there's another aspect that if that brat isn't activated, I sometimes almost turn into more of like a Dom where it's like, you're not doing that, right? No. That's wrong. And I'll get, like, very matter of fact in, like almost a little rude. And I kind of like, take the reins and it's definitely more of like, you're doing what I want because you're not doing what I want someone to tell you exactly what I want.

01:32:14:00 - 01:32:34:19

Sage

And I'm no, I'm not going to suck. Like, no, I'm not going to do this because they're not taking control. And so it's like it brings up this whole other side of me, but it's like it'll have to be in the moment because I've also been asked to like, take advantage of a man and like, like step on his balls or like tease him or force him.

01:32:34:19 - 01:33:06:04

Sage

And the second he shuts me down, turns me off and makes me completely dry up, which is a really no about myself. Or like I've been proposed with, like, would you ever do blood play? But it's just not as sexy in the moment conversation. It's just like we're talking matter of fact. And I'm like, you know, but knowing myself, if he had unlocked that brat part of me, that would absolutely be on the table.

01:33:06:06 - 01:33:19:10

Luna

I'm like, I'm like imagining like a bratty, top vampire role play that works it in and then gets you excited to do it. I don't know, I don't know, I just had a vampire blood fantasy, you know, just pop up into my brain right now. Okay.

01:33:19:12 - 01:33:45:16

Sage

Exactly. So it's like, it's so funny because I think if a partner wants me to kind of, like, do anything for them, even if that is like being a dumb to them. Yeah. But, like, exactly in the way that they want it and like, go all the way and not just kind of be like rude about it, but like, I'm fully in control and will do all of these things.

01:33:45:18 - 01:34:14:21

Sage

I think you need to kind of like work your way up and activate, get past the brat to the sub and then whatever you want. Daddy, I am there and I'm doing it. So if you want me to now, baby the fuck out of you. That's there, that's on the table. But like, it takes those levels to get there and, it's interesting because I got lucky with a lot of my first sexual experiences where I just kept meeting Doms and were like, just so natural at it.

01:34:14:21 - 01:34:38:13

Sage

And like, just put me in my place, like, so deeply and immediately that I kind of expected most men to, like, secretly want that. And then when they didn't, I was like, wait, what do you mean? What do you mean? No, you're not going to just do this naturally. Because before when I was young and got the language and everything, it was just it wasn't a conversation.

01:34:38:13 - 01:35:00:16

Sage

It just happened. And I felt safe with them and all the things that when I did start having these conversations, I started running into men that were not natural doms. And that whole side came out and I was like, whoa, this is such a different aspect. And okay, there are a lot of guys that would rather be led through this than lead me through this.

01:35:00:18 - 01:35:20:13

Sage

So yeah, I think that's that's the most interesting thing I've learned about kink within myself and with other partners through having so many experiences, because, like, I've had a lot of experiences and a lot of different partners because again, it's like, well, I'll try anything with, with whatever. And then when it doesn't play out. Yeah, that was a good experience.

01:35:20:13 - 01:35:26:04

Sage

Learned how to communicate in this way or this way. But that wasn't what I wanted next.

01:35:26:06 - 01:35:39:02

Luna

Okay. Are there any of those experiences that stand out in your mind as just like, funny, strange? Like maybe things that I don't know were surprising and or other locations that you have been in?

01:35:39:04 - 01:36:00:17

Sage

Well, location wise I've had a lot of outdoor sex, like on hikes or like by creeks or things like that. Those are always really fun and hurt, like tripping your knees on rocks because you're against a rock or something like that. But it's like also so hot in the moment that it's like you look down after he's like, oh fuck, I'm bleeding.

01:36:00:17 - 01:36:23:05

Sage

That's well, I didn't know that. Those are always fun. And it's always just like, are we going to get caught if someone's going to walk around the corner like, oh, I love that so much car sex. There was actually one time that this is funny. I was like picking up this guy that I was sleeping with pretty regularly at the time from work, and we like parked around the back of the parking lot.

01:36:23:05 - 01:36:43:01

Sage

It was a pretty big like area. We were smoking in her car and all of this, and then we started having sex and cops rolled up on us. And the car was like, fully hotbox. We had her clothes.

01:36:43:01 - 01:36:46:08

Luna

Off, like, officer, you weren't invited.

01:36:46:10 - 01:37:05:01

Sage

Yeah, like, I don't think we were like, Holy Maid act when he walked up. But, like, basically just like throwing on clothes so fast. By the time he finally got to the window and I said nothing happened, thankfully, like, kind of just shoot us away. I'd like to go home. I can go home. And we're like, okay.

01:37:05:03 - 01:37:29:00

Sage

That was really funny, though, of like, oh yeah, I can't believe it hasn't happened at this point yet, that this is the first time I've gotten that. Now, had sex on top of cars behind a lot of buildings. I haven't had alley sex yet, which is very unfortunate. Yeah, I really don't know how that hasn't happened yet, but that's something that.

01:37:29:00 - 01:37:30:11

Sage

That's on my bucket list for sure.

01:37:30:11 - 01:37:35:13

Luna

Let's say now the intentions out there. I'll look forward to it in your next update.

01:37:35:15 - 01:37:58:13

Sage

Please. Just like fuck me in the back and oh, concert I've been like, but not necessarily full blown sex, but there's been a lot of concerts that I've gone to in the earlier years where, completely random stranger we just start dancing and then I just get fully finger banged and it was like, so good. And it was so stimulating.

01:37:58:13 - 01:38:27:02

Sage

And it was just like this random stranger. It's just all the sudden in my pants. And it's just like sweaty, hot concert loud music. Oh my God, I don't even know what he looks like. I don't even turned around and it's just like, so fucking hot. Yeah, that's happened a few times. And it's it's all it's like the excitement and like the wondering, I don't know if I would have sex with a complete stranger without knowing them, like without seeing them, but I just know it's been a lot of nature.

01:38:27:02 - 01:38:45:23

Sage

Sex for sure. A lot of camping sex where it's like, oh, where campsite and tent is not that enclosed. Yeah. And we're going to do it anyway. That's always like just to me. I don't even see it as bad or like, in front of people. And then afterwards I'm like, oh shit, people could definitely walk up on us.

01:38:45:23 - 01:39:10:19

Sage

Don't even think about that. I was so in the moment, you know, there was one time where I was at that first boyfriend's house when we were like, really young when we first started dating like 18 and 19. So he was living with his mom. I was definitely not allowed to come over. I snuck through his window. We were in the middle of having sex in his bedroom, and his frickin stepdad runs in the room.

01:39:10:19 - 01:39:37:06

Sage

I somehow, I don't know how I got away with hiding, but I did, and he's like yelling at my boyfriend of like, I hear voices. La la la la. What the hell is this? All this stuff? His mom helped me sneak out later. Oh my gosh. Oh, because his mom never had an issue with stepdad daddy issue. So that was like, even though it's in a house, it felt very like off limits.

01:39:37:06 - 01:40:03:05

Sage

Definitely should not be having sex here at all. There was another time in high school where this guy would come over and we would just do oral, and he would leave, and he was over at my house. I was in my parents house and my mom came home late earlier than expected. So I had to have him hide in my closet, be like, hi, mom, get the the, and then have him run out my back door, out the side gate.

01:40:03:05 - 01:40:32:16

Sage

That actually happened twice to different guys. Sounds like to me the locations don't feel that crazy like on paper. But then the experience itself was like extremely forbidden. It definitely should not be happening or with this person should not be happening. And that's always very upsetting to me. Like, I get a lot of couches with people that should not or like there, there's people there that one of us having sex that happens.

01:40:32:16 - 01:40:51:02

Sage

That happened a lot. I been eating out in middle of a party before, okay. With my partner. That was fun. Like, we were all just on Molly, and he just, like, lifts up my dress and I'm sitting on the barstool, so I'm like, way up there and just what's going on? And I was like, what the fuck?

01:40:51:02 - 01:41:14:09

Sage

Like, what? It was like pretty early and me meeting all this friends and I'm like, is this okay? Am I offending them? And it was not an issue at all. But yeah, I've had a lot of experiences like that where it's like. I tell people who aren't very explorative sexually and they're like, whoa, sage, oh my gosh, didn't that's crazy.

01:41:14:09 - 01:41:31:10

Sage

And I'm like, well, that's not that crazy. I've had so many figures like, listen to this podcast. I'm like, what? That's not even that crazy. I don't know what you're talking about. But then, like when I say then people that have exported sex, it's like, oh yeah, I guess that's not what everyone does.

01:41:31:12 - 01:41:35:09

Luna

My barometer is definitely,

01:41:35:11 - 01:41:49:21

Sage

Abnormal, right? A bit off. Yeah. And that's again when the shame meter, like, spikes up is when I get interesting looks are reactions from the same. I'm like, wait, we're not all this comfortable with this? That's so confusing.

01:41:49:21 - 01:41:59:06

Luna

Yeah, I'm mostly afraid of making other people uncomfortable. And I get uncomfortable if I think I have made someone else uncomfortable. Oh, sorry sorry, sorry. You know, and I do get a.

01:41:59:08 - 01:42:06:17

Sage

Little at that. Real about, yeah. Let's talk about your life. What is this? Feels actually totally.

01:42:06:19 - 01:42:29:03

Luna

You know, and what I noticed is, most of the time, if I am comfortable with myself and don't have my own backlash, and if I just own it, it is fine, and then they get more comfortable. And, you know, sometimes I can do that, sometimes I'm. It's not available to me. And that's okay. You talked about this a little bit at the beginning, but I just wonder if you would want to talk about kind of the contrast, now that you're a mother.

01:42:29:05 - 01:42:57:16

Sage

Yeah. So I think the relationship that I'm in now has a really big aspect to how I feel sexually. So him and I got pregnant only three months into dating, knowing each other. A lot of things happened very quickly with us, and we broke up pretty early into my pregnancy on my behalf. I didn't want to. I saw a lot of things I didn't like, didn't want to raise my kid in that relationship, whatever.

01:42:57:18 - 01:43:22:09

Sage

And so I was like, single. And I'm also living with my mom right now, which creates a very different dynamic sexually, and having a baby. So there was a lot of factors at play, but essentially, like, I didn't want to meet anyone new because it was like, oh, I have all this baggage now, and I'm a single mom and I can't date, and I have all these things.

01:43:22:09 - 01:43:43:02

Sage

And so for most of the time that I've been a mom, it's been two and a half years since I had her. I've gone back to partners that I had previously that we have really great foundation. Never necessarily like full, committed relationship dated, but like, we have a very good history with each other, right? A lot of trust.

01:43:43:04 - 01:44:04:13

Sage

No, the sex is great. Sex would always be very like, on the back burner. But when it happened, it was, like very awesome. But when you're single mom and you're breastfeeding and babies kind of just always on you and you don't really have a babysitter unless it's her dad who you don't like at that time, it's just very few and far between.

01:44:04:15 - 01:44:30:23

Sage

But you know, it's happened and it's been great, but it's just it's very uncommon. And then dad and I have gone back and forth with, like, being with each other. And in August of last year I actually got pregnant again by him. But had not decided I want to be with him at all. So I actually ended up getting an abortion.

01:44:30:23 - 01:44:51:10

Sage

I had taken a plan B did not work. So I ended up getting an abortion. Yeah, no, I literally took a plan B the very next day. Did not work. Still, I ended up pregnant, so that scared me sexually a lot to where I was like, I can't ever have casual sex again. And it, made this weird dynamic.

01:44:51:10 - 01:45:15:21

Sage

And then I actually got into a relationship with this man who essentially we had, like a long distance relationship and finally made things official in the like a month or two after my abortion of last year. He lives out of state, so he came here. It was a time when my daughter was finally old enough where I kind of was like, okay, she can have overnights outside of me.

01:45:15:23 - 01:45:37:11

Sage

So our time together was really great. It was like basically the first person knew that I'd ever slept with since having my daughter. Yeah, I was it was the first person who we ended up getting engaged, and it was like just this beautiful dynamic where I finally felt like I found someone that, like, I checked all of his boxes.

01:45:37:11 - 01:45:57:01

Sage

He checked all of my boxes sexually, emotionally, everything. It just checked all of these boxes and it was like, whoa, I actually can date again, and I can't have sex with the new person. And there is all this that I was ashamed of for being a single mom, or all these things, these thoughts that I put onto myself that this person is holding.

01:45:57:01 - 01:46:15:03

Sage

And it's great. And like we shared so many things. But then he broke up with me basically. February 1st, broke up with me, decided he didn't want to be a stepdad, didn't want to move all of that. So that was like kind of confirmed all the fears that I had about dating someone new. Yeah. After being a mom.

01:46:15:05 - 01:46:40:01

Sage

Wow. So that was like, kind of put a damper on my sexuality, kind of like, shit, I thought I opened up and it's like, found these new experiences that were really healthy and blah, blah, blah, and, shut it all down. And so during that time, I also was going through custody, like legal and physical custody, through the courts with the father, my child.

01:46:40:01 - 01:47:00:01

Sage

And funny enough, the day we established custody, he the father, my child, kind of jokingly but not jokingly, was like, I think we should have sex one more time before we, like, fully closed the door. And I was like, hahaha, that's so funny. He did the right before we go into the court and I was like, you're funny.

01:47:00:01 - 01:47:28:04

Sage

That's hilarious. Absolutely not. But then afterwards we ended up just hanging out for like most of the day. We had a baby sitter, so we had to go to court together and got our daughter later, and I ended up just staying over. And since then we've been back together and working on things. Wow. So yeah, now our sex life is as a parent to a baby, and he has another daughter who's 12.

01:47:28:06 - 01:47:48:02

Sage

So that dynamic is interesting because now we finally have this shared custody where we have every other weekend off. So like essentially we could both date and have fun sex lives without this baby and all the things. But then now we have to be together. So it's like put another block of like, oh wait, I have every other weekend off where if I was dating.

01:47:48:02 - 01:48:16:05

Sage

Otherwise I could have a whole weekend with a partner and I can have so much fun playing. But then we decided to be together and I would never have any time off. So that's my body. My body is so different. My energy levels are so different. My boobs and stomach and butt and just everything that pregnancy and breastfeeding for two and a half years and all of that affects is like, whoa, that's crazy.

01:48:16:06 - 01:48:39:12

Sage

While you're breastfeeding, you genuinely do dry up. Getting wet while I was breastfeeding was like, not a thing which I had never had experiences with in the past. I never had an issue getting wet, and until I stopped breastfeeding, her was like, I think I'm broken. It's like it's like, doesn't matter how much foreplay dry. Like.

01:48:39:14 - 01:48:42:21

Luna

Your body's like, cool. Nurture that one. Don't make another one.

01:48:42:23 - 01:49:04:02

Sage

Exactly. And it's real. And also the libido is like, unless I'm ovulating, we're not horny because. Yeah, taking care of new baby. Yeah. Which before I was always horny and it had nothing to do with, like, my cycle because I've been off birth control most my adult life. I just broke my cycle. Yeah, before it had nothing to do with my cycle.

01:49:04:02 - 01:49:22:15

Sage

I was just always ready to go. And then since having her, it's like, oh, you get your, like three day window during ovulation when you're most at risk for being pregnant and that's the only time you're horny. Otherwise, like, don't touch me, don't look at me, I'll kiss you. But I still feel like, sure, I guess, like, that's just so interesting.

01:49:22:15 - 01:49:45:10

Sage