Hotel hallway handjobs, pegging with praise, and playful spank counts—Zoo returns to share how their sex anxiety, shifting gender journey, and queer connections are shaping a search for intimacy, pleasure, and community.

📈 STATS | 28 queer trans non-binary human, they/he pronouns, polyamorous, currently partnered, bartender, Shakespearean actor, based in Los Angeles.

🔗 ZOO LINKS | @zooholmstrom / thelongroadtolesbos.com

Zoo’s episode from April 2019 | The Fantasy Chamber

Zoo’s update from September 2022 | Phantom Dick Orgasms and The Long Road to Lesbos

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00:00:00:02 - 00:00:29:22

Luna

Our guest today is a 28 year old queer, trans, non-binary human who uses the he pronouns, has been poorly for seven years and is currently partnered. They are into pegging sensuality and have been collecting so many excellent updates for us. A bartender, Shakespearean actor and an O.G. past guest of this podcast who you can listen to. Firstly, in episode 19, The Fantasy Chamber, and an update a couple of years ago on the episode Phantom Dick orgasms and the Long Road to Lesbos from September 20th, 22.

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Luna

Welcome back, my sweet friend zu.

00:00:33:03 - 00:00:34:12

Zoo

Hello!

00:00:34:14 - 00:00:35:08

Zoo

I'm so excited.

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Zoo

To be here.

00:00:36:02 - 00:00:40:05

Luna

I'm so excited. The list of updates that you wrote.

00:00:40:05 - 00:00:42:12

Luna

Out for me is fantastic.

00:00:42:12 - 00:00:45:05

Luna

Do you want to give like an overview, or do you want to.

00:00:45:05 - 00:00:49:15

Luna

Dive into specifics like what has changed since 2022?

00:00:49:17 - 00:00:51:18

Zoo

Yeah, I mean, since 2022.

00:00:51:20 - 00:01:05:06

Zoo

Last we talked, I was, recording in a closet in New York on a road trip. I had just moved out of Vermont. So since then, I have been back in LA for about two and a half years and have, in that time, gotten.

00:01:05:06 - 00:01:09:06

Zoo

Married. And,

00:01:09:08 - 00:01:19:07

Zoo

You know, had some lovely little sexual experiences with my partner when we were first meeting. I've been trying to reconnect to my slutty roots, and it's been easier said than done.

00:01:19:09 - 00:01:20:09

Zoo

Okay.

00:01:20:11 - 00:01:24:06

Zoo

And, yeah, it's been it's been a wild couple of years.

00:01:24:08 - 00:01:35:10

Luna

Okay, so let's dive in. Can you please tell us about this weeklong conference that included some hookups and, Well, I'll let you give the the very exciting details.

00:01:35:12 - 00:02:00:09

Zoo

Yeah. So in 2023, I did a bartender conference and met this guy who is now my husband. And we were immediately like, oh, there's something here. Night two of the conference. We ended up making out in the hallway, super drunk at like three in the morning, and we're like, oh, that was fun. And then I thought nothing would come of it.

00:02:00:09 - 00:02:20:20

Zoo

And then we proceeded to, you know, have our days, do whatever, like working this conference, hanging out in New Orleans. And then every day I would get we'd get back to the hotel at two, three, four in the morning and we'd be like, either not get off the elevator when we were supposed to, or just like, send a text when we both got back to our rooms if we'd been sharing the elevator with other people.

00:02:20:22 - 00:02:26:18

Zoo

And then the conference was very strict. We were not allowed to have people over into our hotel rooms. We could only have. We are assigned.

00:02:26:18 - 00:02:29:05

Zoo

Roommates.

00:02:29:07 - 00:02:50:01

Zoo

And so we would just be making out in the hallway, dirty talking, getting, like real intimate and culminated. I think one of our the, the, the really fun moments was we were like, okay, we've been making out in basically the elevator, like where the elevator drops you off, like just in front, and then like somebody would come in and we'd just like, stop and just be like, yeah.

00:02:50:01 - 00:02:55:02

Zoo

So anyway, casual what's reasonable. For sure sure sure sure sure.

00:02:55:04 - 00:03:07:03

Zoo

And so we're like okay let's try and find some more privacy. And I had it in my head that like oh hotels have like ice rooms or like where you can like fill up your ice bucket. Maybe we can like go in there. Turns out that was just a door and couldn't fit it. A human in there.

00:03:07:05 - 00:03:10:22

Zoo

But right across from it, in this little alcove was a different door, and we.

00:03:10:22 - 00:03:15:17

Zoo

Opened it just to see if it was unmarked. And it had door number two behind door number two.

00:03:15:19 - 00:03:19:19

Zoo

And it was a room filled with like, microwaves and kettles, like for the hotel.

00:03:20:00 - 00:03:21:18

Zoo

Okay. What.

00:03:21:20 - 00:03:23:13

Luna

Like a storage room for, like, for guests.

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Zoo

Like a storage.

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Zoo

Room.

00:03:25:17 - 00:03:43:10

Zoo

Like, it was like just where they kept those extra appliances for that floor, I suppose. And it was unlocked. So we go in there and we start, like, really making out heavy, like, hands down my shirt. Some, like, choking action. And then finally we're like, okay, we should leave. We're, we're we've been here for a long time.

00:03:43:12 - 00:03:58:02

Zoo

And then we go out and then we just proceed to stand up against the door and continue to make out. And then I'm like, you know, we're getting hot and heavy. And so I'm like, reach my hands down his pants and then pull his dick out and we're making out. And I'm just, like, gently jacking him off in a hotel hallway.

00:03:58:04 - 00:04:00:18

Zoo

The Ritz-Carlton.

00:04:00:20 - 00:04:05:16

Luna

Did you make it to completion? Was it just a little play? Like, what did you do? If so, like, it.

00:04:05:16 - 00:04:07:12

Zoo

Was just teasing. Okay.

00:04:07:14 - 00:04:26:22

Zoo

Oh, it was just a little bit of play, edging and. Yeah, just a little hallway edging and, you know, just getting him riled up and weird. We were just talking like, oh, you know, like, we're doing this big thing tomorrow. Nobody's going to be in the room. So we should come back in, like the secret and like, be sneaky.

00:04:27:00 - 00:04:44:17

Zoo

And so we do that the next day, he gives me his hotel key, and I use it, and I, like, come in. And we proceeded to just have, like, oral sex and have a great time and then we start falling asleep, and we're not we can't we can't fall asleep because if anybody comes in the room, we're going to be a big trouble.

00:04:44:17 - 00:04:50:02

Zoo

We're also naked, and then we start to fall asleep. And he like, does this tiny little snore. And I'm like, okay, we got to get up.

00:04:50:02 - 00:04:53:06

Zoo

We got to go. We got to get out of here.

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Zoo

And so like, we had just been hanging out with all of our like friends from this conference, and then it's like 1130 at night. That doesn't mean anything in New Orleans. Time is has no meaning. And so we're like, okay, we got to go out and make an appearance so that people don't realize what we've been doing.

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Zoo

It has to be a secret.

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Zoo

And so we, like, get dressed super.

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Zoo

Fast and then like run to this event that's happening and are there for like the last like 15 minutes that it's happening. So we just like run around trying to get as many like pictures and merch and like candy as possible as like proof.

00:05:23:19 - 00:05:26:10

Zoo

Yeah. We're like and everybody's like, oh, where'd you guys get up to?

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Zoo

And we're like, oh, we just separately happened to take a nap and like, you know.

00:05:29:21 - 00:05:34:13

Zoo

I'm not okay. Oh, and then we're like, oh, well, we're both out. We might as well just go together. It's fine.

00:05:34:15 - 00:05:55:23

Zoo

And then the next night is the last night of the conference, and both of our roommates have gone home earlier. Like, we are all wrapped up. They're both gone. And so I'm like, okay, tonight's the night we're going to Bowen because this is happening in New Orleans. I live in LA. He lives in Vancouver, Canada. We're like, we never know when this opportunity is going to happen again.

00:05:56:00 - 00:06:09:08

Zoo

And so he comes over and we proceed to have sex in this hotel room, for the first time. And, you know, again, it's three in the morning. We had been out with all of our friends, and finally I was like, okay.

00:06:09:08 - 00:06:10:22

Zoo

We should probably go now.

00:06:11:00 - 00:06:12:02

Zoo

Kind of get them from the bar.

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Zoo

And people are like, oh my God, it's been so good to meet you. We love everybody so much.

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Zoo

That's like lovely, good, happy feelings.

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Zoo

And I'm like, no, we gotta go so we can go back. Yeah. Come on. We,

00:06:25:06 - 00:06:38:03

Zoo

And then second we get back to the hotel, and have sex dinner like all this, like sexual tension and, like, romance and, like, drama of, like, we've been teasing and edging and making out hallways.

00:06:38:03 - 00:06:41:03

Zoo

And doing all this stuff and, like, oh, God, what are.

00:06:41:03 - 00:06:43:02

Zoo

We going to do? And then it, like happens and we're like.

00:06:43:02 - 00:06:43:12

Zoo

Oh my.

00:06:43:12 - 00:06:50:07

Zoo

God. And then we finish and we're just like, looking into each other's eyes and we're like, this is perhaps more. And then both.

00:06:50:07 - 00:06:52:12

Zoo

Of us a back and thigh.

00:06:52:14 - 00:06:54:15

Luna

Really. Okay. Because I was going to say, this.

00:06:54:15 - 00:07:00:00

Luna

Becomes the person that you marry. Like, what did that initial spark feel like?

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Zoo

It was just.

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Zoo

Like this immediate connection to this person of like, I'm interested.

00:07:04:19 - 00:07:05:13

Zoo

In it and I don't really.

00:07:05:13 - 00:07:11:17

Zoo

Know why I'm intrigued. And we just happened to, like, match each other's, like, freak.

00:07:11:19 - 00:07:12:20

Zoo

I guess.

00:07:12:22 - 00:07:24:02

Zoo

And, like, even when we weren't, like, making out or whatever, we'd be, like, hanging out all night after this conference. And we were the most social people ended up being, which is very strange because both of us are like kind of introverted.

00:07:24:04 - 00:07:25:02

Zoo

But.

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Zoo

In this particular situation, we both like, fed off of each other and were able to, like, encourage this extroversion and the social ness and, you know, we were always the ones like closing down the bars and like hanging out every single night. And then he ended up booking a plane ticket to come and see me in LA, like we left on a Saturday and he booked it on Sunday to like, come see me like the next month.

00:07:48:17 - 00:07:58:12

Zoo

So it was like this very immediate thing and even like, like we had, we had sex and he has a little bit of sexual anxiety. And there is this moment where I was like, we can't I'm not going to let you be.

00:07:58:12 - 00:07:59:07

Zoo

Anxious right now.

00:07:59:07 - 00:08:16:10

Zoo

Basically, I was like, I need to get laid. And I was like, okay, you're having a hard time, right now. I'm just going to put on a song and we're going to dance naked. And like, that's how I'm going to solve this problem. I'm just going to get us out of this. And it worked really well. Like we started dancing, were naked and like halfway through the song, he pushes me up against a wall.

00:08:16:10 - 00:08:18:15

Zoo

We start making out and then it's golden from there.

00:08:18:17 - 00:08:21:03

Luna

That is so beautiful.

00:08:21:05 - 00:08:35:23

Zoo

I felt like such a superhero. Yeah, I was like, I figured it out, I did it. And just like being able to to get out of your head for a moment to, like, then reconnect and be like, okay, we're being silly. We've gotten distance from this. Now let's, you know, keep going.

00:08:36:01 - 00:08:37:09

Zoo

Yeah, yeah.

00:08:37:11 - 00:08:40:07

Luna

Oh, that's so good. I mean, and I know every.

00:08:40:09 - 00:08:45:12

Luna

I know because I've slept with many very anxious lovers. How does that sound? I know that.

00:08:45:12 - 00:08:58:17

Luna

Everyone's anxiety presents differently and how the different solves. And I also know that part of the piece of the puzzle is just being invited by a partner into a specific space, you know, which I've experienced or received.

00:08:58:19 - 00:09:17:11

Luna

Okay, I also just have to reflect on how funny it is that this conference was like, don't bond like, don't go fuck each other. Please stay focused. Like, is that? And also the beauty of humans, most of the time when I'm talking to people and they're telling me about funny places they've done it, it's usually because there's a rule.

00:09:17:11 - 00:09:18:22

Luna

In place of can't, you know, whether.

00:09:18:22 - 00:09:28:23

Luna

We're like in high school and finding parks or it's like summit, like, what is this conference that they're like, don't. But they're like, please pay attention to the bartending. Like, what was that rule about?

00:09:28:23 - 00:09:42:21

Zoo

It's literally like the first night we had like an orientation and they were like, all right, everybody, remember you have one roommate, you have one roommates. No one else is allowed to be in your room. You have one room. They said it's so many.

00:09:42:21 - 00:09:46:07

Luna

Okay. So maybe it's like politeness to the roommate so people don't get.

00:09:46:10 - 00:09:59:22

Zoo

Like it was part of it is like also like the hours were crazy. Like we were starting our days at like 7 or 8 a.m. and then working until like 6 a.m. and then you'd be out until like midnight to 2 or 3 a.m..

00:10:00:00 - 00:10:01:18

Zoo

Oh. So like.

00:10:01:20 - 00:10:16:06

Zoo

They were long days and I think they wanted us to be like, you know, focused on the work we were supposed to be doing. And we were like, we both worked very hard and like, we never missed anything. There was another person who was in the conference who did, like, push those rules a little bit too far and got noticed that they were pushing rules.

00:10:16:12 - 00:10:32:08

Zoo

And so like, we were like, okay, we have to be really good at our jobs if like we're going to be doing this and it worked out. But yeah, I think that is kind of the universal human experience is that if someone tells you you're not allowed to have sex, you're gonna find somebody that you want to have sex with and you're kind of figure it out.

00:10:32:10 - 00:10:38:16

Luna

It just gets more exciting. I mean, and I am by no means a rule breaker, but when a rule is silly, it is hard.

00:10:38:16 - 00:10:43:11

Luna

For me to, like, want to follow it, even if I might otherwise. By default.

00:10:43:13 - 00:10:45:21

Zoo

Yeah. I'm like, we're all adults.

00:10:45:23 - 00:10:54:11

Zoo

We're going to be polite. We're not going to like, you know, have loud sex. But there's another person sleeping four feet away. But, you know, I'm going to.

00:10:54:11 - 00:10:55:09

Zoo

You know, make out in the.

00:10:55:09 - 00:10:57:14

Zoo

Hallway and push those limits as.

00:10:57:14 - 00:11:01:14

Zoo

Far as I can. I'm thinking about the security cameras, like watching you.

00:11:01:14 - 00:11:17:12

Zoo

Just like I think about that sometimes. Like, I'm like, I wonder if they're a I wonder if there's a camera pointed in that area. I wonder if, like, there is a specific security person who just starts making out night after night and was like, what the fuck is with these kids? Like, can they like, get a room? Literally, we're.

00:11:17:12 - 00:11:20:15

Zoo

In a hotel.

00:11:20:17 - 00:11:21:23

Luna

Oh my gosh, I.

00:11:21:23 - 00:11:22:20

Zoo

Got a good show.

00:11:22:22 - 00:11:24:05

Luna

I fucking love that.

00:11:24:05 - 00:11:33:03

Luna

I want to interview a security guard at, like, a slutty hotel so badly. I feel like they probably just. I mean, they're probably, like, inundated and maybe desensitized, but.

00:11:33:05 - 00:11:33:12

Zoo

00:11:33:14 - 00:11:41:09

Luna

Okay. Can you tell us now about the different gender dynamics that you've experienced during your transition.

00:11:41:11 - 00:11:42:18

Zoo

Yes.

00:11:42:20 - 00:12:02:06

Zoo

So yeah, when I was first on this podcast I was a she her girly girl. And then since then I've transitioned to be more trans masculine, trans man, trans, non-binary, whatever wibbly wobbly gender. But something that I've noticed, particularly in like poly situations, is when I was a girl, it was.

00:12:02:06 - 00:12:04:06

Zoo

So easy.

00:12:04:08 - 00:12:09:15

Zoo

Like, I would go to this poly meetup that where I would literally just like sit down and then people.

00:12:09:18 - 00:12:10:17

Zoo

Just come up to me.

00:12:10:18 - 00:12:15:06

Luna

I remember you telling me this and be like, fascinating. It just works.

00:12:15:06 - 00:12:16:13

Zoo

Like that, okay?

00:12:16:15 - 00:12:36:17

Zoo

It just works like that. And like even or even just like meeting people in bars or like going on dates or being on apps, like it was always easy to like, let me like I didn't have to do much and have to try very hard, which I think is just this inherent societal thing of like the man or the masculine person has to be the initiator, be the, aggressor or whatever.

00:12:36:19 - 00:12:53:03

Zoo

And I've noticed that since I've come out of like when people are perceiving me more masculine, I don't get approached as much. I don't get like people coming on to me as much I have to be conscious of like, oh, I need to make the first move. I need to invite you out on a date. Which is weird.

00:12:53:03 - 00:12:53:10

Zoo

For my.

00:12:53:10 - 00:13:15:07

Zoo

Brain because, like, I'm anxious and I. And I don't want to do that. I'm like, but what if I read this wrong and, like, I go to make a move, and then they don't actually want that for me? Yeah. And so like I have I've noticed these, like different dynamics of like, you know, even just like being on dating apps and being like, oh, this is now the point where I need to ask them on a date.

00:13:15:07 - 00:13:21:15

Zoo

Otherwise this conversation isn't going to go anywhere. Oh, because I don't I can tell that they're not going to do it.

00:13:21:17 - 00:13:23:04

Zoo

How can you tell.

00:13:23:06 - 00:13:24:19

Luna

Just from like the pattern?

00:13:24:21 - 00:13:59:17

Zoo

Just the pattern and like the, the, the syntax, I guess that they're using the different like the vibe, the energy of being, you know, I'm like, okay, they're they're kind of talking around this subject. I need to be the one who goes, okay, let's make a date. Let's do another, which is especially difficult when like, you know, you go on a date with somebody and you're like, oh, and at that point where, like, I think the kiss is about to happen, but I need to be the one to initiate the kiss now because I can see the see in their eyes that they're waiting for that or that they're not going to, and

00:13:59:17 - 00:14:07:14

Zoo

then I have all that anxiety of like, did I read this wrong? What if they're not actually thinking that? What if they're thinking that I'm a crazy person? Then I like, go to kiss them or ask to kiss.

00:14:07:14 - 00:14:12:18

Zoo

Them, and then they go, no, no. Yeah. So that's not really interesting.

00:14:12:20 - 00:14:13:22

Zoo

That has never happened to me.

00:14:13:23 - 00:14:17:23

Zoo

Okay. Of course it hasn't. Because most of my anxiety is just.

00:14:18:01 - 00:14:18:22

Zoo

Made up in my brain.

00:14:19:03 - 00:14:20:01

Luna

Mine has.

00:14:20:01 - 00:14:25:02

Luna

Happened. I'm like, okay, I think I'm reading all these signals, right? They look like they want to fuck me. And then I'm like.

00:14:25:04 - 00:14:31:00

Luna

Do you want to have sex? And they're like, I mean, those are old stories. I also don't.

00:14:31:01 - 00:14:33:13

Luna

Give most people in the world the opportunity, like.

00:14:33:13 - 00:14:47:20

Luna

My days of fucking people I meet on the street are over as of last summer. Okay, so, I learned my lesson more than once. I won't do that anymore, you know? And it's it is tricky, like.

00:14:47:20 - 00:15:04:04

Luna

With anxiety on on both sides. Or at least it can be. And it is. I mean, I've heard all of these things about, like, the masculine needs to be the hunter and needs to feel like successful from it. And I'm like, but sometimes they do seem slow and scary. And I'm like, have I been initiating dates too quickly?

00:15:04:06 - 00:15:08:11

Luna

You're using apps. You said you're like, I am the apps. Yeah, okay. Do you do.

00:15:08:11 - 00:15:13:15

Luna

You ever, like, meet people out in the wild, like, do you go up and chat at bars because you, I.

00:15:13:15 - 00:15:16:18

Luna

Mean, you're or are you mostly only at the bar where you work.

00:15:16:19 - 00:15:18:10

Zoo

I so I'm.

00:15:18:10 - 00:15:24:04

Zoo

Terrible at like going up to people and like initiating a conversation. I wish that I was better at it.

00:15:24:04 - 00:15:26:11

Luna

Have you done it with a wing person?

00:15:26:13 - 00:15:46:06

Zoo

I do find it easier to, like, make conversation when I'm with other people, but I feel like I so often go to places, events, whatever alone because I'm like, oh, if I hook up with somebody I don't want to like leave my friend behind, but then I don't have anybody to like, you know, that one's energy off of me, so I don't end up talking to anybody.

00:15:46:08 - 00:15:46:22

Zoo

So like, it's.

00:15:46:22 - 00:15:47:21

Zoo

Like this weird.

00:15:48:02 - 00:15:58:06

Zoo

Like thing of, like, I want to have the space in the time to, like, the able to hook up with somebody. But then I don't want to, like, okay, be alone.

00:15:58:09 - 00:16:07:01

Luna

Okay? Kimberly and I don't really drink or go out late. And it might be an interesting experiment if we were your wing.

00:16:07:01 - 00:16:27:01

Luna

People and just we're like, hang it like, for the experiment sake, because, like, I have a lot of experience now, small talking in bars and like it would be going back to my decade ago early origin experience of like working with a pickup artist because that was their job and I would shatter them sometimes, but I was like, it's so loud, but I could like, wear my earplugs.

00:16:27:01 - 00:16:38:02

Luna

And Kimberly and I were like, they're observing. I'm just saying I'm noodling. Okay. Because that does seem fun. And I have been gathering details about how to approach people, so.

00:16:38:04 - 00:16:40:13

Zoo

I don't know. And that was it's.

00:16:40:14 - 00:16:48:16

Zoo

Funny that you say that because that was something that I had a lot more success with when I lived in Vermont. I think because Vermont is a smaller pool.

00:16:48:18 - 00:16:50:22

Zoo

And.

00:16:51:00 - 00:17:07:10

Zoo

Like I would go to these like queer events or whatever, and a I'd recognize most of the faces like week after week because it's, you know, it's a small state, an even smaller queer population. And so it'd be like, okay, I kind of have an understanding of who these people are. I know, like where their sort of dynamics are.

00:17:07:12 - 00:17:27:13

Zoo

I'm, you know, friends with this group of people. That is essentially a giant, like trans anarchist, poly cool and like, everybody's dating or fucking somebody else. And so it was like really easy to like shift into that. And I had a lot more success meeting people IRL and like pursuing that. And that felt really good. Feels way better than, like meeting people on apps.

00:17:27:13 - 00:17:41:18

Zoo

And I've been trying to find that again. And like, but I've been struggling with it because I think these events, these places are so much bigger. I think people here are also way more primed to, like, not want to be approached in public because it happens more often.

00:17:42:00 - 00:17:42:05

Zoo

Yeah.

00:17:42:07 - 00:18:02:08

Zoo

And so, like, I don't want to bother somebody who's just like trying to have a drink and I'm not great at reading like, okay, who in this bar looks like they're trying to like, hook up. And I do feel like that is a thing that is not as prevalent anymore of like, people going out specifically to try and hook up with somebody because there are apps and there easier or like more direct ways to do it.

00:18:02:08 - 00:18:36:15

Zoo

But like you watch a movie from like the 90s or like the early 2000s and like that's how people met. It's like they intentionally went out to bars and like, talk to people and like, I wish that that was more of a still more of a thing because, like, I think it's way more organic to meet somebody obviously in person and like, yeah, I feel like I tend to the people who I've met, not through apps and like gotten into relationships with have ultimately been not even necessarily like better or like deeper relationships, but there's been more of a connection right up the gate.

00:18:36:15 - 00:18:56:18

Zoo

And, and like, you know, with my husband, like, we met doing this like mutual thing, like through a work thing or like, you know, another partner I had, we met through a job, and like, stuff like that of you, when you know that you have, like, something in common with somebody from the jump, that is something that is important enough to you both that you are meeting, doing it.

00:18:56:20 - 00:19:02:12

Zoo

I think that that says a lot versus being like, oh, I see on both of our Tinder profiles that we like movies.

00:19:02:13 - 00:19:02:17

Zoo

Or.

00:19:02:17 - 00:19:03:20

Zoo

Whatever, you know, like you.

00:19:03:20 - 00:19:05:06

Zoo

Make less.

00:19:05:06 - 00:19:06:09

Zoo

Of a jumping off point.

00:19:06:11 - 00:19:07:19

Luna

Yeah. And also just.

00:19:07:19 - 00:19:29:07

Luna

The way that human beings are wired, those apps are designed to ding, ding ding our dopamine bells, but it's in the app. And so then we're already quote unquote supposed to like this person when we go for the in-person part. And it's sort of like, yeah, the fun initial zing has already been like that. Bubbles already popped, and now it's like, I am supposed to like you in person.

00:19:29:11 - 00:19:34:06

Luna

Because the app said we liked each other, you know, and it's and it's.

00:19:34:08 - 00:19:56:01

Luna

Oftentimes disappointing because people's textures are so different. Because we didn't smell them. We didn't feel them. We didn't energetically vibe with them. Or maybe I know some people have a lot of success on apps, and they tend to be very like focused from what I've talked to. And I really like the openness and the unknown, and I've definitely found myself gravitating toward in-person experiences for certain.

00:19:56:06 - 00:20:19:14

Luna

Yes. Well, interesting. And I'm like, I really want to compare your masculine experience, like with apps and real life, but I think the point that you made to about how norms are shifting for meeting people, you know, in the cultural context is a big difference. I also have had some people tell me that they've lived on East Coast and West Coast, and East Coast has more of a culture now, I didn't say this.

00:20:19:14 - 00:20:36:19

Luna

I've had other people tell me this, but like one handful. So maybe it's meaningful. I don't know, everyone else can tell me, but I've I've heard that it's culturally more normal, at least in cities like New York, to go to a bar and just chat with people, whereas L.A. does have a little more. I don't know if it's like the car culture.

00:20:36:19 - 00:20:41:04

Luna

I don't know if it's because so many people came here and are like, who are you? What do you.

00:20:41:04 - 00:20:44:07

Luna

Do? Oh, you work in casting high, you know, like, oh.

00:20:44:07 - 00:20:45:15

Zoo

You're a photographer.

00:20:45:17 - 00:20:47:15

Luna

Could you take pictures of me? I don't have any money.

00:20:47:15 - 00:20:52:02

Luna

I'm good waiting for, you know, like like there is. I've still experienced that in LA.

00:20:52:06 - 00:21:06:22

Zoo

No, I mean, I notice that even, like, when I visit New York, like, I'll be sitting in a bar and somebody's next to me. I'll just, like, strike up a conversation. And it's always lovely. Like, even if it isn't like, a sexual thing or a comedic thing, but, like, people are more inclined to chat. Yeah. Out East, which I think is interesting.

00:21:06:22 - 00:21:23:20

Zoo

Like, I do think it is, I think of LA of like everybody's kind of in their own little insular bubble and everybody's like, oh, if I start talking to this person like, you know what, if they're secretly famous or like something and I just don't recognize them and then they're like, oh, yeah, I think I get that a lot at work.

00:21:23:20 - 00:21:32:10

Zoo

Or like, I see people who sit down at the bar and I'm like, are you just really pretty or are you actually famous? I cannot.

00:21:32:12 - 00:21:34:11

Zoo

So I just feel like looking at this person being like, do I.

00:21:34:11 - 00:21:40:05

Zoo

Recognize you or are you just hi, I can't tell.

00:21:40:06 - 00:21:40:14

Zoo

But yeah, I.

00:21:40:14 - 00:21:55:12

Zoo

Have a friend who just visited me and they live out in Rhode Island. And we met in Vermont, and they, they had an opposite experience of like, they're like, oh, I'm so popular in LA Twitter. There are so many queers out here. This is so much easier for me because, like, there isn't as much of that, like queer community out in, like Rhode Island where they live.

00:21:55:12 - 00:22:11:01

Zoo

So that was their experience of like, oh, this pool is bigger. And that's helping me because, you know, there's a pool at all. And it's not, you know, nothing or like weirdos or whatever it is. And they have like, they're like, I love L.A., I want to move here. And I'm like, great.

00:22:11:03 - 00:22:19:07

Luna

Okay. I mean, and that just goes to show that everyone has their different ways of connecting with people. Did you say they're connecting with people on LA Twitter? Is that what you said?

00:22:19:09 - 00:22:21:13

Zoo

LA Tinder tender Tinder.

00:22:21:16 - 00:22:24:18

Luna

Oh okay. Okay. Oh, interesting.

00:22:24:20 - 00:22:40:23

Zoo

And like yeah Tinder and Field I think that they were using maybe hinge too. I don't remember. But like, they were just like on apps as we were here and, like, straight up, like, went on a date with somebody while I was at work one night. Who, like, they're coming back to visit me in July, and they're like, all right, when I'm back and let's go on another date.

00:22:41:01 - 00:22:47:05

Zoo

I'm like, good for you. Yeah, I could never wait.

00:22:47:05 - 00:22:48:22

Luna

Really.

00:22:49:00 - 00:22:51:17

Zoo

I mean, I don't know, I think if I maybe.

00:22:51:17 - 00:23:04:00

Zoo

If I knew, like, I was going to be back in the inner city at like a certain time, I could go on a date with somebody. But like, if I'm going on dates with people in a city that I don't live in, it is purely to hook up and then probably never touch me.

00:23:04:01 - 00:23:05:14

Zoo

Okay, okay.

00:23:05:16 - 00:23:32:07

Luna

Like about having like someone in every port. I mean, I am a long term lover, like off and on if and when it makes sense. And most of my past lovers no longer make sense. But I am open if circumstances are correct. I just don't want to. Honestly, I don't want to do the work of fostering a deep, intimate connection with someone who I'm not going to deeply, intimately see regularly.

00:23:32:09 - 00:23:33:10

Zoo

That stops the.

00:23:33:10 - 00:23:39:12

Zoo

Struggle that I have is like, I love the idea of having like, casual partners and like different cities and being like, If I'm.

00:23:39:12 - 00:23:40:05

Zoo

Here.

00:23:40:06 - 00:23:55:00

Zoo

Like, there is a space for me, like, we can meet, we can hang out, we can have a good time. But I've had trouble cultivating that, partly because I think when I've tried to do that, it ends up just being in like we're in a long distance relationship and that's not what I want.

00:23:55:01 - 00:23:56:13

Zoo

00:23:56:15 - 00:24:17:11

Zoo

Like I'm like, no, I, we, we had a really good two weeks. And that doesn't necessarily mean that we need to jump into a long distance relationship that will ultimately fail because we miss each other. But like, I like, I like it is that balance of like I want to connect intimately and deeply with somebody and not have that be a relationship.

00:24:17:16 - 00:24:20:01

Zoo

Yeah, yeah. And that's hard to find.

00:24:20:03 - 00:24:35:04

Luna

It's a very specific balance and I think requires a very specific container, because sometimes even just like messaging in between, it's like small talk, small to us. I don't know, let's just catch up deeply when we see each other is kind of how I feel. And I know for many people that those threads of connection are very important.

00:24:35:04 - 00:24:46:13

Luna

So I try to balance it out again if it's meaningful. Have you found your attraction to other people shifting in your gender dynamic transition? Like what's that.

00:24:46:13 - 00:25:00:21

Zoo

Yeah, honestly I've, I, I'm, I'm still very much like bisexual queer or whatever. But like I, I've noticed especially like I was on hormones for a while. I'm not currently but I definitely have noticed a lot more attraction to masculinity.

00:25:00:23 - 00:25:02:02

Zoo

Than I have in the past.

00:25:02:02 - 00:25:04:00

Zoo

And like am seeking out.

00:25:04:02 - 00:25:04:19

Zoo

Men.

00:25:04:19 - 00:25:14:01

Zoo

Masculine trans mask, whatever kind of people more. Which is interesting is somebody who, like, literally found it a dark night where I'm now like, I want to date, ma'am.

00:25:14:03 - 00:25:17:06

Zoo

00:25:17:08 - 00:25:20:15

Zoo

And, like, I still like and, like even my attraction.

00:25:20:15 - 00:25:38:02

Zoo

To women slash gender expansive folks in whatever way is generally attracted to more like butch or masculine presenting people across the gender dynamic. Like, whatever your parts are, whatever your identity is, I tend to be more attracted to like, masculinity and butch ness.

00:25:38:02 - 00:25:39:08

Zoo

And that.

00:25:39:13 - 00:25:51:16

Zoo

And like, I'm I'm not a particularly like I want like a very feminine girlfriend or something like that. Like I think those women are beautiful. Yeah. But they're not necessarily my type, which is interesting. And it's not always been the case.

00:25:51:20 - 00:25:52:10

Zoo

Okay.

00:25:52:12 - 00:25:56:01

Zoo

Like, I've, I've always really liked butch women. Butch people, whatever.

00:25:56:03 - 00:25:56:08

Zoo

Yeah.

00:25:56:09 - 00:26:04:20

Zoo

And since coming out, I've been way more attracted to, like, that masculine kind of energy girl.

00:26:04:22 - 00:26:20:05

Luna

It's also so funny to me. I mean, not in a judgment way in a I love seeing these things unfold way, but I think it is also funny if you are attracted to more butch or like mask presenting types, that you.

00:26:20:05 - 00:26:22:17

Luna

Would still be the one to mostly make the first move or that you're.

00:26:22:17 - 00:26:24:16

Luna

Clocking those kind of dynamics.

00:26:24:16 - 00:26:27:16

Zoo

Yeah, well, because I think it's also.

00:26:27:18 - 00:26:47:08

Zoo

I, I struggle with this in a way of like I am comfortable with my, like the way that I feel my gender and like this masculinity within me. But I think to a lot of the world I still permit like come off as more feminine because I still have tits. And like, I get gendered as a woman a lot at work, which is very strange to me.

00:26:47:13 - 00:26:59:22

Zoo

But, you know, especially when I'm talking to, like, a cyst man or something, I'm like, oh, I think you I don't know how you're perceiving me. And so I don't know if you're attracted to me or how you're attracted to me.

00:27:00:00 - 00:27:00:21

Zoo

If that. That makes sense.

00:27:00:21 - 00:27:23:13

Zoo

It's like, I can't tell if you are perceiving me as like a non-binary girl, if that makes sense. Like you're like I is they them, but like, you still got tits and like a pussy, so, you know, you're kind of a girl. Or if they're reading me as a man and therefore they're not attracted to me, or if they're like a bisexual, I don't know how they're perceiving me or, like, what's going on.

00:27:23:13 - 00:27:44:18

Zoo

So, like, I feel more confused sometimes talking to to cis men specifically of like, I'm attracted to you, but I don't know if you're reading me as a lesbian and wouldn't think that I'm attracted to you, or if you're reading me as a man and you're less interested in men or like, whatever that is. So I. I struggle with that sometimes of like, are you flirting with me for real?

00:27:44:20 - 00:27:53:04

Zoo

Are you like, what is this? What are how are you perceiving me in my relationship to you?

00:27:53:06 - 00:27:55:02

Zoo

00:27:55:04 - 00:28:01:03

Luna

What would you ever ask a question of like, obviously would have to get to a certain.

00:28:01:03 - 00:28:06:02

Luna

Point, but, like, is there a fun version? There's a fresh noodle where you'd be like, so have you.

00:28:06:02 - 00:28:24:09

Luna

Ever been with like, I don't know, like, well, how would you even describe yourself? Have you ever been with a mask, a nonbinary masculine like, would you ever do something like that? Would you say something to someone like that? Or like, what? Do you need to feel safe to assert yourself as who you are?

00:28:24:11 - 00:28:39:00

Zoo

I mean, that's a great question because it's something that I'm currently. There's a person that I'm currently struggling that with, that with of like, I don't know what your perception of me is. I'm sort of in this moment and how that applies to your attractiveness. But like or attraction not.

00:28:39:00 - 00:28:41:12

Zoo

Attractiveness because yeah, I do.

00:28:41:12 - 00:28:56:08

Zoo

I am kind of curious. Like I wish I had the confidence to just be like, hey, how are you perceiving me right now? Like, what do you see when you look at me? And how does that match with your personal like, scale of attraction?

00:28:56:10 - 00:28:56:19

Zoo

And.

00:28:56:19 - 00:28:59:14

Zoo

Like, type like how where do I fall on the spectrum?

00:28:59:14 - 00:29:02:02

Luna

Okay. Are you open to more noodle, though? Because this is what I'm.

00:29:02:02 - 00:29:19:05

Luna

Practicing in myself. I am practicing getting out of their head and their experience, focusing on my desire and going from there. So for me, it would sound like, have you ever been with a really horny autistic sex worker?

00:29:19:07 - 00:29:26:22

Luna

You know, because I think you're cute and if that's something you want to explore, you know, like, I don't know. And these are all fresh noodles.

00:29:26:22 - 00:29:36:15

Luna

I have not met someone in the real world recently, although I have done some container shifts with people that I know. You know where it where I would like drop that because no one has been.

00:29:36:15 - 00:29:40:02

Luna

Compelling enough at first meeting for me to like, want to do that.

00:29:40:04 - 00:29:50:12

Luna

But I did recently have an experience with a long time person that I admired, who then expressed desire, and I was like.

00:29:50:13 - 00:29:56:00

Luna

I thought you were monogamous. How do you feel about a non-monogamous super slut? You know, like.

00:29:56:06 - 00:29:56:14

Zoo

You.

00:29:56:14 - 00:29:58:06

Luna

Think what do you think? You know?

00:29:58:06 - 00:30:05:01

Luna

And so that led to something. And then, of course, you can never really trust because they don't know. People don't know. So I don't know. I would just be curious to hear.

00:30:05:03 - 00:30:06:06

Zoo

On the next update, if.

00:30:06:06 - 00:30:23:05

Luna

You come from your desire and worry less about how they're perceiving. And because sometimes I think also people just need to be told because they might not, you know, they might not be thinking. What I've learned is most of the time people are not consciously thinking about all the little details, but I'm wondering about that.

00:30:23:05 - 00:30:28:06

Zoo

That's the ticket is that nobody is thinking about me as much as I'm thinking.

00:30:28:06 - 00:30:30:07

Zoo

About me for all. Nobody. Sure?

00:30:30:12 - 00:30:51:01

Zoo

Yeah, yeah. Nobody is perceiving me with the detail that I am perceiving myself through somebody else's eyes. And I struggle really hard to remember that, because that is how to fix that anxiety. And that has to just be like, no, how do I feel about this? This is who I am. Do that with what? What you.

00:30:51:01 - 00:30:52:12

Zoo

Will. Yeah.

00:30:52:14 - 00:31:13:15

Zoo

And not thinking like, oh, is this person attracted to me? If I wear this outfit, will they perceive me this way or that? Because that's also something of like, okay, I'm going on a date with SS man, do I want to dress more masculine and more feminine? What will he like more? What will my perception like? How will I feel in my gender if I dress this way versus this way?

00:31:13:17 - 00:31:32:05

Zoo

And these are all things that I think about constantly, even like getting ready for work or whatever of like, you know, if I show up to a work meeting wearing this, all my coworkers think of me this way or that way. And it is hard to get that out of my head of like, no, I just need to wear what I feel comfortable in and what feels good to my gender today and in this moment.

00:31:32:07 - 00:31:44:08

Zoo

And the people who like me will like me no matter what. And the people who are attracted to me will still be attracted to me or not. It doesn't matter what I'm wearing necessarily. And it's hard to, get my head around.

00:31:44:12 - 00:31:59:12

Luna

Well, it's all a practice. And I definitely noticed that, like, when my anxiety brain is going, it's going to focus on something to to be anxious about, no matter what. And so funny, because I always end up I almost always end up like anytime I'm going out into the world to do a thing, I'm like, what do I wear?

00:31:59:12 - 00:32:12:00

Luna

Whatever. Oh my God, I don't even have clothes. I don't really have clothes. I should, I have fancy dresses that's too fancy, I don't know. And I almost always end up in my same pair of leggings and a white tank top, like, almost, you know, and then a various jacket, whether.

00:32:12:00 - 00:32:15:15

Luna

It's the yellow one or the red one of the one, like, depending on the time, like almost always.

00:32:15:20 - 00:32:18:16

Zoo

Some sort of boots or Flip-Flops. I don't know.

00:32:18:18 - 00:32:21:01

Luna

We have our comfy spot.

00:32:21:03 - 00:32:31:21

Luna

Oh, yeah. That's so interesting. Okay, I want to hear about the time that someone who was allergic to latex didn't bring their own condoms.

00:32:31:23 - 00:32:35:06

Zoo

Oh my God. So this was somebody who I met on a dating app.

00:32:35:08 - 00:32:37:01

Zoo

Okay. I think I had mentioned them on.

00:32:37:01 - 00:32:54:09

Zoo

Multiple dating apps even. And they're a trans and non-binary person. And the first date we, like went back to their place. And we had kind of been talking about, they were like, oh, I'm interested in starting to create like OnlyFans content. And I was like, you know, that's something I've been thinking about.

00:32:54:11 - 00:32:57:09

Zoo

Let's talk more about this.

00:32:57:11 - 00:33:12:04

Zoo

And so like, we ended up going back to their place. We like show each other porn that we like and like would like to emulate in an ideal world or whatever. And we hook up and mostly it's like oral hands, whatever. And there's like a brief moment of penetration where they don't use a condom. And I'm like.

00:33:12:09 - 00:33:12:22

Zoo

00:33:12:23 - 00:33:34:19

Zoo

I don't love that. I just met you. We didn't talk about, safety or anything. And, like, I'm on, I have an IUD, like, it's fine, but, like, I don't. We didn't talk about our last tests or anything like that, but it didn't last very long, because, like, they had had difficulty maintaining an erection. And so they're probably only inside of me for 30s.

00:33:34:21 - 00:33:54:14

Zoo

Maybe a minute. And then we decide to film something at my house. One day before work, and they come over and I've, like, you know, cleaned my room. I've, like, got my light out, and then we start, like, hooking up, and I'm like, I actually don't like this person. The feelings are not feeling good.

00:33:54:16 - 00:34:04:01

Zoo

And I had, like, made a list beforehand of, like, stuff to talk about, and, like, we didn't end up talking about anything. And then, you know, we start to have penetrative sex or whatever. Oh, this is on camera, by the way.

00:34:04:03 - 00:34:05:13

Zoo

00:34:05:15 - 00:34:17:06

Zoo

And then I go, hey, you know what? I'd actually like to use a condom. And then they, like, stop. And they kind of look at me like I'm crazy. And they're like, okay, well, first I'm allergic to.

00:34:17:06 - 00:34:18:02

Zoo

Latex.

00:34:18:02 - 00:34:24:13

Zoo

And I didn't bring any of my, like, non latex condoms. And I'm like, okay, that's like crazy to me.

00:34:24:17 - 00:34:25:13

Zoo

00:34:25:13 - 00:34:44:10

Zoo

That you have this allergy. You didn't talk about this and you didn't bring condoms to an event, to it, to a date where you knew you would be having sex. Yeah, that's a little bit weird for me. And then they go on to say that wearing condoms also gives them dysphoria. Which is valid and fair. Whatever. I'm not going to whatever.

00:34:44:10 - 00:34:50:06

Zoo

And then they're like, well, but you know, I always, you know, talk about I always check with my partners, like when I'm even tested.

00:34:50:06 - 00:34:51:02

Zoo

And like, I talk about this.

00:34:51:02 - 00:34:52:08

Zoo

A lot, but I'm having sex.

00:34:52:08 - 00:34:53:12

Zoo

This one of the person right now, and we're.

00:34:53:12 - 00:35:04:16

Zoo

Also not using a condom, but like, I know that I was tested recently and they were tested recently and I was like, so I know that you're lying to me because you did not ask me those questions.

00:35:04:18 - 00:35:05:19

Zoo

And like you.

00:35:05:19 - 00:35:08:18

Zoo

Straight up are lying to my face. And so I, I'm like.

00:35:08:18 - 00:35:12:06

Zoo

Okay, well, cool. Like maybe we can just like make out or whatever.

00:35:12:08 - 00:35:16:14

Zoo

And then I'm, I get really uncomfortable and I'm like, and the mood kind of shifts and I'm.

00:35:16:14 - 00:35:17:16

Zoo

Like, oh, you know, I just.

00:35:17:16 - 00:35:21:00

Zoo

Remembered, like, I need to meal prep and I like, kick them out of my house.

00:35:21:00 - 00:35:23:09

Zoo

Basically, it's good for you.

00:35:23:11 - 00:35:34:10

Zoo

And they got like kind of annoyed with me because they, had to drive a while. They're like, but I, you know, I drove all the way here. Are you sure you don't want to, like, watch a movie or, like, whatever.

00:35:34:10 - 00:35:40:11

Zoo

And I'm like, no, I'm okay. I got to get ready for work. I'll text you.

00:35:40:11 - 00:35:44:08

Zoo

And then they go, will you? Because you're kind of bad at texting. And I'm like.

00:35:44:10 - 00:35:49:00

Luna

Okay, you're like, I'll text you if I feel like it.

00:35:49:02 - 00:35:58:20

Zoo

And then they leave and then they, like, text me the next day. And they're like, I was looking through the footage and there's like, still stuff like I could use. So like, you know, I'll give you a cut or whatever. And I'm like.

00:35:58:22 - 00:36:00:08

Zoo

You know, use it over. You want.

00:36:00:08 - 00:36:03:04

Zoo

I don't really care. I don't want to see you again by. And then.

00:36:03:08 - 00:36:05:22

Zoo

I and then like two.

00:36:05:22 - 00:36:28:23

Zoo

Days later, I'm like, I'm really itchy. That's weird. And then, like, I look up the symptoms and I'm like, this motherfucker in literally, like, 30s of being inside me unprotected gave me a goddamn yeast infection. I'd never had one before. I didn't know what it felt like. And I was like, this is. And I had coming up like a date with somebody who I like, a partner who I very much loved and had not been able to be intimate with for a while.

00:36:28:23 - 00:36:29:06

Zoo

And I was.

00:36:29:06 - 00:36:30:11

Zoo

Pissed that I wouldn't be able.

00:36:30:11 - 00:36:39:08

Zoo

To have sex with them because that fucking yeast infection, because this person didn't use a condom frequently and didn't wash their fucking dick.

00:36:39:10 - 00:36:41:03

Zoo

And I'm still very pissed off. And like.

00:36:41:03 - 00:36:56:05

Zoo

That was like the least comfortable sexual experience I had had in many years. Yeah. To the point where, like, after they left, I, like, I called Kimberly and I called like another friend of mine to be like, I just had this experience and I felt really gross about it and really weird. And what the.

00:36:56:05 - 00:36:57:18

Zoo

Fuck?

00:36:57:20 - 00:37:00:22

Luna

So utterly valid. And I.

00:37:01:00 - 00:37:02:12

Luna

Also.

00:37:02:14 - 00:37:05:12

Luna

This is not scientific. Let me preface.

00:37:05:12 - 00:37:06:23

Luna

This. Everyone, anyone.

00:37:06:23 - 00:37:19:15

Luna

Listening? Not at all scientific handful of anecdotal data. And because so many friends tell me when they get yeast infections.

00:37:19:17 - 00:37:29:07

Luna

My observation is that in my personal life, when that has happened, and in my own experience, it often seems to be related to people they.

00:37:29:08 - 00:37:29:19

Zoo

Don't.

00:37:30:00 - 00:37:53:17

Luna

Like, like, and it's skin to skin, you know, and it can be hands as well because it's yeah, it's whatever fucks up the pH and whatever kind of like bacteria are getting in. And every pussy is different. They are self-cleaning organisms. And it seems like when the person has a negative feeling toward the partner and there is any sort of unprotected contact, the body's like, nope.

00:37:53:19 - 00:37:55:01

Zoo

So that's fascinating.

00:37:55:01 - 00:38:21:05

Luna

That. And that is, again, just like a handful and a half of data points. But like I've also experienced that and I've gotten yeast infections for other reasons. Sometimes I've gotten them after using a condom, but it's also like I don't know what else happened hand wise. You know, for me, it's only in the last couple of years that I have been adamant about partners washing their hands before touching my pussy, you know, and sometimes, sometimes people just don't think or even, you know, people will pick up their phones and then go to touch my pussy.

00:38:21:05 - 00:38:21:12

Luna

And I'm like.

00:38:21:12 - 00:38:24:08

Luna

Go wash your hands again, please. You know?

00:38:24:10 - 00:38:35:18

Luna

So that's, damn sorry to hear that that happened. And very glad to hear that yeast infections are not the norm for you because some people are, like, riddled with them. And that's that's a bummer.

00:38:35:20 - 00:38:48:00

Zoo

I'm incredibly lucky in that I don't get yeast infections. They don't get you. UTI is like generally I've a very healthy pH going on down there. So it was also like just a surprise of like I was like at work and I was like.

00:38:48:00 - 00:38:49:23

Zoo

Why am I so itchy? This does not.

00:38:49:23 - 00:38:50:11

Zoo

Happen to.

00:38:50:11 - 00:38:52:20

Zoo

Me. That's a bad

00:38:52:22 - 00:38:56:00

Zoo

But yeah. So that was my one experience with attempting to make OnlyFans.

00:38:56:00 - 00:38:57:17

Zoo

Content, and I've not.

00:38:57:19 - 00:38:59:10

Zoo

Tried to do it since.

00:38:59:12 - 00:39:03:21

Luna

Yeah, it's a, it is a whole thing. And that that communication process and.

00:39:03:23 - 00:39:19:00

Zoo

Is is a thing. Yeah. I was like, you're not a safe person to do this with because you're not. And also like they were like, well, the only thing I've been thinking about this week and doing is like this, like working on this project of mine, like I'm unemployed and I'm not. This is the only thing I'm doing.

00:39:19:01 - 00:39:22:13

Zoo

And I was like, you're not doing anything else you don't, like, have a hobby.

00:39:22:15 - 00:39:30:09

Luna

Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I mean, we definitely learn our lessons one experience at a time.

00:39:30:11 - 00:39:32:02

Zoo

Yeah.

00:39:32:04 - 00:39:41:13

Luna

Tell us about getting spanked every time you said a certain phrase. Give us a context. Lay it out. Tell us about the spankings and.

00:39:41:13 - 00:39:43:15

Zoo

Yeah, please.

00:39:43:17 - 00:40:03:08

Zoo

So this was in that month between, hooking up with my partner at this conference and then them coming to see me. We'd be texting or, like, talking on the phone or whatever. And I am always right. Just in general. I'm almost always right. I say that in a lot of contexts. I'm a very smart person.

00:40:03:08 - 00:40:22:14

Zoo

I'm very perceptive. I know kind of what's going on. And so whenever we'd like have, you know, we'd be debating about something or I'd give advice and I turned out to be right, or something like that. I'd be like, you know, because he was always right. And then my, my partner now goes, you know, when we meet up, I'm going to start keeping a tally.

00:40:22:14 - 00:40:27:12

Zoo

And every time you say that, I'm going to spank you. And I'm like, all right, cool off, go off.

00:40:27:13 - 00:40:28:23

Zoo

00:40:29:00 - 00:40:37:12

Zoo

And so, like, every time I'd like, text it or say or whatever he would just send me like a little emoji, like those little like the count, like the number emojis.

00:40:37:14 - 00:40:38:09

Zoo

00:40:38:11 - 00:40:53:03

Zoo

And like, you just react with, like that emoji, like in WhatsApp or whatever. And then it got to be over that number. So he would just be like, all right, that's ten 1115 whatever. I got up to I think like 22 or 23, in about a.

00:40:53:03 - 00:40:57:09

Zoo

Month, month and a half. You're so right it up.

00:40:57:11 - 00:41:01:17

Zoo

I'm so right. And also like, there got to be points where he'd be like, you know. And why.

00:41:01:17 - 00:41:05:07

Zoo

Is that? And this is like, right.

00:41:05:09 - 00:41:26:11

Zoo

Like he would go me on and sometimes I'd be like, I'm feeling sassy or bratty or whatever, and I'd, you know, give it to them. And then so yeah, when, when I, when he was visiting, if we'd like, gotten home, I was like late at night and he's like, all right, it's time. And he liked that me over and I have like, a paddle, and he started using that, and I was like, oh, that's actually very painful for me.

00:41:26:11 - 00:41:44:07

Zoo

And not in a fun way. Like, I'm not appropriately warmed up for this. I hadn't done like. Yeah, hard like impact in a while. Yeah. And so I was like, oh, this is actually right. And so just switch the hands. And he was like, making me count along, like, every time. And I was like, I'm not learning my lesson.

00:41:44:07 - 00:41:48:05

Zoo

But like.

00:41:48:07 - 00:41:49:10

Zoo

00:41:49:12 - 00:42:04:14

Zoo

But it was funny because I was also a moment where like because like, with him and I at first, like even in the hallway, he was like, call me sir or whatever. And like, we'd joke and I'd call him sir or whatever. And then we did that, and that was the experience where I went. I'm actually way less of a bottom than I used to be.

00:42:04:16 - 00:42:25:00

Zoo

Like, really, I'm having a good time and, like, nothing's wrong or whatever, but, like, this isn't doing it for me in the way that, you know, a spanking used to necessarily. So that was just an interesting thing to also find out of, like, oh, you're like punishing me. You're, you know, we're having this dynamic moment and I'm actually like, this isn't the dynamic for me right now.

00:42:25:02 - 00:42:36:17

Zoo

And so since then, actually, like, in our relationship, it has switched. So I'm way more of, like, the top, the aggressor, the Dom, whatever in, like, our sexual dynamics. So that is also been very fun.

00:42:36:19 - 00:42:37:14

Zoo

Okay.

00:42:37:14 - 00:42:42:21

Luna

Oh, are there details worth mentioning there before we go on?

00:42:42:23 - 00:43:05:18

Zoo

I mean, I, I love pegging as as we said earlier, I love pegging, as you talked about in my update, a couple years ago, I'm, I love my strap on. I love fucking people with my strap. And we've discovered that my partner is a, can really handle it. And, like, because I have a, I have a seven inch and that's been my, like, standard dildo that I've been using.

00:43:05:18 - 00:43:11:22

Zoo

And then I was he was like, okay, I'm interested in like, pegging, like with you. I want you to fuck me. And I was like, hell yes.

00:43:11:22 - 00:43:14:07

Zoo

Thank you so much.

00:43:14:09 - 00:43:27:23

Zoo

Let's go. When you're here, let's buy a smaller dildo because I've gotten comments in the past that this one's a little bit big for people. So we're like, go and buy a smaller one, and I'm using it and like, you know, we have our session and like, do it. And then he goes, next time is the bigger one.

00:43:28:01 - 00:44:01:01

Zoo

Like, that wasn't enough for me. And I was like, music to my ears. So like, we've been, you know, getting used to doing that and like, you know, he'll tell me when he's like wearing a plug to, like, train himself and like, before we, you know, our together. He'll he'll put in a plug, for, like, leading up to it, we've also discovered that he has, like, a praise kink, and that is like one of the ways to sort of, combat his sexual anxiety is for me to just be, like, telling him what a good boy he is.

00:44:01:03 - 00:44:15:05

Zoo

And, like, playing with that dynamic, which is new for me because like, in the past, partners have I been, like more dominant towards have been more on like the degradation side, which I am not as comfortable with. That's harder for me. And I'm like, oh, it's so much easier to just be like.

00:44:15:05 - 00:44:19:04

Zoo

Oh, you're such a good boy. You're taking this so well.

00:44:19:06 - 00:44:41:02

Zoo

And like playing with that. And so that has been really fun or like, you know, with, with the like playing with impact in that, like, you know, you're taking like you're taking these things so well or doing whatever that might be. So that's been like a fun little switch of like instead of this like punishment spanking for me, it's turned into like praise spanking for him.

00:44:41:04 - 00:44:41:12

Zoo

Which is.

00:44:41:12 - 00:44:42:18

Zoo

Been really fun.

00:44:42:20 - 00:44:53:00

Luna

Oh my gosh, I really love that. Tell us now about your libido returning via, reading some fan fiction. And like.

00:44:53:00 - 00:44:55:11

Luna

When did it go away?

00:44:55:13 - 00:44:57:01

Zoo

Yeah. So for the.

00:44:57:01 - 00:45:06:16

Zoo

Past year or so, so my partner and I are long distance. He lives in Vancouver. I'm still in LA, and.

00:45:06:18 - 00:45:19:07

Zoo

I've been having a harder time, like being sexual both in person, because I think for me, after not having sex for a while, it's harder and harder for me to, like, get back in that rhythm.

00:45:19:09 - 00:45:21:13

Zoo

Of, like, being a sexual human.

00:45:21:15 - 00:45:25:06

Zoo

Like I need sort of like, regular reminder.

00:45:25:10 - 00:45:25:22

Zoo

I get.

00:45:25:22 - 00:45:27:08

Zoo

It. There's that I enjoy sex.

00:45:27:08 - 00:45:29:18

Zoo

No, I feel not right.

00:45:29:18 - 00:45:39:11

Luna

If I don't know when my next sex is happening and waiting a long time and I can masturbate like I do, I do a lot, but it's not the same nutrient. Yeah.

00:45:39:13 - 00:45:40:09

Zoo

00:45:40:11 - 00:46:09:14

Zoo

And so yeah I was having that sort of like difficulty for a while and like have been less interested in like sexting and like that kind of like long distance sexual connection that you can have. And like it's been a lot harder for me to like feel sexual. And that was also sort of tied into something with is later on in this list because I have it next to me as well of like over the last year I haven't been I've only slept with my partner like he's the only person I've slept with since we started sleeping together, which was about a year and a half ago, which is crazy for me.

00:46:09:16 - 00:46:29:04

Zoo

I haven't done that since I was, you know, 18. In my first relationship, I was like only sleeping with one person for over a year and I can feel how that is, like changed the way that I interact sexually. And it's been difficult for me to even like, you know, know that I want to be having sex and like, pursue those with other people necessarily.

00:46:29:06 - 00:46:54:21

Zoo

And so I got really into this video game called Stardew Valley, which is a farming sim. It is not a sexual game. It is a very family friendly game, like, I know people play it with their kids. It is like a very like basic like you farm and you raise chickens and you, you know, build things and like materials.

00:46:54:23 - 00:46:55:14

Zoo

It's I mean.

00:46:55:14 - 00:47:08:11

Luna

It's a little bit like there's something about homesteading family, like, I mean, and I think a lot of us are so in screens that were like 3D world, classic hard work. I don't know, it makes me feel in touch with my human body. I've been.

00:47:08:11 - 00:47:13:10

Zoo

Hearing inklings that it's that like, maybe I could be a farmer on a.

00:47:13:10 - 00:47:23:17

Zoo

Commune. And like, all I have to worry about is like feeding the chickens and making bread, and then, you know, it's, you know, you have to stop work when the sun goes down. So what are you going to do? Guess we'll burn all night.

00:47:23:23 - 00:47:25:10

Zoo

00:47:25:12 - 00:47:43:22

Zoo

So I was on, like, literally like Reddit for this video game, like looking at something and somebody recommended a fanfic that they had been reading about it. And I was like, I didn't even I haven't read fanfic since I was in high school. I didn't even think that this was like an option for this game. So I read this fanfic and it's like a sexy one and I'm like, oh my God.

00:47:43:22 - 00:47:48:20

Zoo

And then I get really in to sexy Stardew Valley thing.

00:47:48:22 - 00:47:52:14

Zoo

And yeah, it's so it's like.

00:47:52:14 - 00:48:21:11

Zoo

So divorced from the actual, like content of the game. And, you know, it takes these characters who have specifically. I've been reading one about a character in game who's like an alcoholic and, like, kind of a dick. And it's like all of these, like, farmers being like, he's so prickly and stony and, like, mean. And then he's also, like, mean and bad, and then it's like this really intense, like domination, like sexual experience is like in a barn.

00:48:21:13 - 00:48:21:16

Zoo

I.

00:48:21:16 - 00:48:23:20

Luna

Was going to say. Is there a hayloft? Okay.

00:48:23:22 - 00:48:44:06

Zoo

There's a hayloft. And like, you're reading those and, like, get it? And also like, they're fairly like the ones that I read were, like, fairly well written. So I was like, oh, also a compelling story. And like getting into those I started, like, masturbating again for the first time in like six months at the time, or like, I just hadn't really felt any libido at all and like, just very disconnected from my body.

00:48:44:12 - 00:49:01:08

Zoo

And like, that helped me get like back into it and like, think about, like, you know, how do I feel in my body even if it's like, you know, just me and my Hitachi alone in my room, like, still getting some of that, like, energy and like, sexual expression out in a way that is like, been helpful for me.

00:49:01:08 - 00:49:04:12

Zoo

Like I've coming back into this, this experience.

00:49:04:14 - 00:49:07:15

Zoo

Yeah. Yeah.

00:49:07:17 - 00:49:18:01

Luna

I would love to read to anything else you have to say connected with your like mental health when it comes to being less slutty, you know, and kind of like, you know, out with that.

00:49:18:03 - 00:49:19:02

Zoo

Yeah.

00:49:19:04 - 00:49:38:17

Zoo

It's funny, it's also it's something and it's come up again recently in that like I'm like, oh, I'm like very disconnected from my body because I'm not having sex as much. And then that makes me feel like disconnected from the rest of the things that are going on in my life. And like, you know, it doesn't help that we're going through a horrible political time.

00:49:38:19 - 00:49:39:05

Zoo

Everything.

00:49:39:05 - 00:49:40:10

Luna

Has a lot right now.

00:49:40:12 - 00:50:08:18

Zoo

Everything's a lot right now. And normally when, like, everything is a lot right now, in the past, when I've been going through, like, depressive episodes or the world has been shitty and terrible or I've been struggling or whatever, something that has always helped is being able to just, like, lose myself in sex. And like allow myself to connect entirely to like the animal body that like deep sort of intrinsic sense of self that you have when you have sex.

00:50:08:20 - 00:50:30:14

Zoo

And like when you, you can only think about how you feel and how your partner's feeling and how you guys can make each other feel. And like that has always been something that is like helped me out of depression. And it's like given me, a light spot to sort of like focus on when I'm, you know, feeling this way and not having access to that, being in a long distance relationship, being in a long distance relationship with somebody who has some sexual anxiety.

00:50:30:14 - 00:50:49:22

Zoo

So even when we're together, sometimes, like having sex is difficult and it's not like doesn't get quite where we both want it to be sometimes. And then because I haven't had sex in a long time, I'm not feeling particularly sexual. So it's hard to like try and pursue that in other avenues. And so it is just just like Self-feeding perpetuating cycle.

00:50:50:00 - 00:51:03:03

Zoo

And it's made me realize that, like, being polyamorous is actually very important to my identity and like, very intrinsic to who I am. And that I don't feel quite as fulfilled quite as myself.

00:51:03:05 - 00:51:05:02

Zoo

When I'm not.

00:51:05:04 - 00:51:29:06