Rope for All Bodies: Jenna’s Update
- Luna Robbie
- Dec 4, 2023
- 35 min read
29 gay Jewish solo-poly top-leaning switch, author of Anthology of a Slut.
🔗 JENNA LINKS | @wildcardchaos / fetlife
00:00:00:02 - 00:00:23:06
Luna
From episode 183, originally titled anthology of a slut, but renamed to anthology of a switch because we are being weirdly censored on the Spotify, especially, they have recently started working, mostly unpaid for now. As an educator in kink spaces, they are working to revamp their local community and she just came out as gay. Here to tell us all the details.
00:00:23:06 - 00:00:24:17
Luna
Welcome, Jenna.
00:00:24:19 - 00:00:27:08
Jenna
Hi. And so I'm.
00:00:27:08 - 00:00:42:00
Luna
So excited and I'm so excited that I actually had to redo the intro several times because I'm that excited. But could you start off by telling us today, I know you were negative infinity on the shame meter before, but like, where do you fall now? Is it different? Has it changed? What's your current life relationship with shame?
00:00:42:02 - 00:00:48:19
Jenna
I think I'm still going to go with negative infinity, but like more negative infinity than before. Wow.
00:00:48:19 - 00:00:53:02
Luna
Congratulations. Is there anything specific to stay there or do you just want to dive into your updates?
00:00:53:04 - 00:01:04:22
Jenna
It's just been a lot of fun stuff, but I've just been figuring out and playing with and jumping right in. I'm in my whimsy era, so I playing. Yeah, okay.
00:01:05:00 - 00:01:16:07
Luna
Do you feel like working more as an educator has contributed to negative infinity, or do you feel like the whimsical, like it's not a competition? I'm assuming they both contribute to super duper negative infinity.
00:01:16:09 - 00:01:33:13
Jenna
Yes, they definitely do. I think working as an educator has helped me unpack a lot of the things that we're kind of holding me back, just because when you teach them to someone else, like you need to know where they're coming from, kind of because you have to have that leg to stand on for your own information, you know?
00:01:33:15 - 00:01:43:09
Jenna
So that helped me a lot. And then just having fun and like kind of finding my identity with this, like, playful, chaotic craziness that I'm doing.
00:01:43:11 - 00:02:02:18
Luna
Okay. When you say knowing where people are coming from, how do you do that? I've been interviewing people for five years, and I feel like I'm actually getting worse at it because I'm like, I can't have any assumptions here. Well, first of all, let me start out by telling us that I'm doing that thing where I ask all the questions in a row, but what are you teaching?
00:02:02:18 - 00:02:15:23
Luna
How are you educating? And then maybe work? And how the fuck do you figure out where people are coming from? And if you share all your own personal stuff, but then maybe you decide you are going to become an educator or you like, get into grad school for a degree in sexual wellness. You're like, I guess I'm going to do this.
00:02:16:01 - 00:02:17:22
Luna
Yeah. Where do you want to start?
00:02:18:00 - 00:02:36:05
Jenna
Yeah, I'll just jump in. There's. So I feel like all of that kind of plays in and I can use it as an example while I do it. So I have been teaching classes. A lot of it has been very like introductory. So intro to rope bottoming content negotiation, we call it the Bdsm boardroom. And a lot of things like that.
00:02:36:05 - 00:03:03:17
Jenna
I've developed some classes that I actually have not taught yet on it being a chaotic top, just because I have enveloped this new role of just like doing what I want to do and not feeling like I need to fit into the you know what everyone else around me is doing. So I have all these like, weird, chaotic things that I pulled them out of a bag and people are like, what are you doing with that?
00:03:03:19 - 00:03:07:18
Jenna
And it's just been such a fun adventure. So I developed a class around that.
00:03:07:23 - 00:03:18:03
Luna
You're like, I'm doing whatever I want because I'm in charge. What do you mean, though? Specifically with chaotic. And we'll get to all the questions. I'm going to interrupt you because I think you can chaotically handle it.
00:03:18:05 - 00:03:48:16
Jenna
Totally. Fine. I'm here for it. I have done as much as beating someone with a rubber chicken full of lead shot. I have done rope suspensions where I actually climbed on top of the bottom while they were suspended, and use them as a swing and just kind of ridiculous nonsense that like is just fun. I have an umbrella that I use as an impact toy while I sing Mary Poppins songs, like it's just what I love that.
00:03:48:18 - 00:04:00:16
Jenna
So I tied someone up and I have a thing with rubber chickens. I don't know what it is. I put rubber chickens under the rope while they were suspended, so every time they breathe, the rubber chickens would squawk.
00:04:00:18 - 00:04:05:01
Luna
Well that's it. Wait. What? That. How does that work?
00:04:05:03 - 00:04:15:00
Jenna
Because they were in between the rope in their body. So then when their stomach would move, when they were breathing, it was squeezing the chickens. And then when they would exhale, the chickens would make chicken noises.
00:04:15:05 - 00:04:18:14
Luna
So the chickens are squeaky toys or is it like, okay.
00:04:18:15 - 00:04:22:00
Jenna
Okay, whoa ho, squeezy rubber chickens.
00:04:22:01 - 00:04:31:05
Luna
That's hilarious. I think I don't have a lot of experience with rubber chickens. How did you come to get your first rubber chicken and then how did it get into a kink scene?
00:04:31:06 - 00:04:45:15
Jenna
I saw it on the internet and I was like, this is kind of ridiculous, and I kind of want it. Like, I'm scrolling through Amazon all day and I was like, oh, this would be fun to hit someone with. And then I was like, how do I make this heavier? So then I loaded it up with birdshot.
00:04:45:17 - 00:04:47:03
Luna
Wait, what is birdshot?
00:04:47:09 - 00:04:50:06
Jenna
What you put in shot? Show it in your.
00:04:50:08 - 00:04:56:17
Luna
Okay, that is what I was imagining. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't another, like, a rubber chicken version that was, like, clown related. Okay, okay.
00:04:56:17 - 00:05:06:00
Jenna
Act birdshot. Yeah. And so I closed up the chicken, and now he's an impact toy. And his name is Ronald, and he had his own.
00:05:06:02 - 00:05:11:12
Luna
Oh, I love it. I bet your bottom is a love hate Ronald.
00:05:11:13 - 00:05:14:01
Jenna
Love hate Ronald.
00:05:14:03 - 00:05:22:17
Luna
Amazing. So was there a specific thing since we spoke last that led you to embrace this new level of wild chaos?
00:05:22:19 - 00:05:34:15
Jenna
I sat down with myself kind of one day. I know in the last episode I talked a lot about the dominant submissive relationship that I was in, and that actually ended because I realized there is not a single submissive bone in my body.
00:05:34:20 - 00:05:37:12
Luna
Oh, I was going to ask you about that. Really? How did you realize it?
00:05:37:18 - 00:06:03:00
Jenna
Wow. Like, we were together for almost a year, and I got to a point that I was like, doing all of the things that I wanted to be doing, but they weren't the things that were in, like me as a submissive. So like, we had an open relationship so I could still go play with other people. And I was going and, you know, doing impact scenes as a bottom with people that I had no power relationship with.
00:06:03:00 - 00:06:25:18
Jenna
We just came in, hit each other and left, and I was like, oh, this is what I want. So I was just like, you know, this submissive side of things just really is not fulfilling for me in any way. So realizing that kind of made me sit down and unpack what it was that I wanted and kind of what my quote unquote brand like, what I wanted it to be.
00:06:25:19 - 00:06:30:03
Jenna
So I just wanted to be authentic and weird. And here we are.
00:06:30:05 - 00:06:37:17
Luna
Dude. That's amazing. So you still like the intensity of the sensations, just not in the container of I'm the submissive.
00:06:37:19 - 00:06:47:11
Jenna
Yes, I like to bottom, but I am not submissive. And that's been an interesting distinction that I've made as well. Like over the course of figuring that out.
00:06:47:13 - 00:06:58:18
Luna
So is this the type of stuff you teach about or kind of what do you specialize? We talk about rope stuff and you talk about stuff you're developing. Can you do we get a sneak peek or what do you want to talk about specifically? Yeah.
00:06:58:22 - 00:07:21:05
Jenna
So my real wheelhouse is safety. Be that emotional safety, physical safety, all of those things. You know, I've taught anatomy and body parts for not just rope but also for impact play and broken down, like, you know, here where all the important organs are like, this is where you need to be careful. Like not diving super far into the classes that I teach.
00:07:21:05 - 00:07:47:16
Jenna
But like, it's really important to me to kind of just teach with my own personal experience. And that kind of goes into the question from earlier of like not coming in with assumptions. I come in very much as just like, hey, I am teaching from my own experience. This is how I got to this point. You know, I have over my 12 years in the community, have had Xyzzy experiences which made me want to develop this class.
00:07:47:18 - 00:08:11:21
Jenna
Like the chaotic topping is kind of just more playing into yourself and what you want to do and not what quote unquote, society in the kink form of things. I'm quoting again says you should do so like women don't have to be bottoms and, you know, you can top without being a dominant or you can bottom without being submissive and things like that.
00:08:11:23 - 00:08:28:04
Jenna
So that's kind of where that chaotic play class is headed into that. Like here is how you can top someone with rope even if you're they're submissive and things like that. So kind of changing the societal dynamics a little bit.
00:08:28:06 - 00:08:47:22
Luna
I fucking love that. And I want to hear specifically to what you had to kind of study or I know you have a lot of experience, but in terms of was there formal knowledge or formal research you did to feel comfy telling people things like body part stuff, or for example, how to, I don't know, use a human as a thing when you have them died.
00:08:48:00 - 00:09:10:15
Jenna
So I have a background in emergency preparedness and I went through EMT training. I did part of a nursing degree that I never finished. So I've taken I have a very like deep understanding of anatomy, and that's kind of where the beginning of my safety talks are. So that's knowing, you know, where to stand on someone if you're using them as a sling and things like that.
00:09:10:17 - 00:09:33:18
Jenna
But then I also get into, you know, how to prepare for when shit hits the fan. Basically. So, you know, a lot of people play under the acronym of safe, sane and consensual or risk aware Consensual canker. The two, that I see most commonly, but I tend to play under risk of where shit happens. So I plan for anything that could happen.
00:09:33:23 - 00:09:45:13
Jenna
And then that's how I teach as well. So, you know, here are my backup plans. Here is why I'm doing the things that I'm doing. Here is how I keep myself and my partners as safe as possible.
00:09:45:15 - 00:09:48:14
Luna
I assume I know the answer to this. You like.
00:09:48:17 - 00:09:55:00
Jenna
Teaching? I do, why? I don't, but I really do. Really.
00:09:55:03 - 00:10:12:05
Luna
I'm finally going through all the emails with Kimberly. Kimberly's helping me gather them all up. All the people who have been ignoring because I'm like, I'm not an authority. Don't ask me questions. And I'm like, well, I guess I do have a ton of knowledge at this point. I am going back to get like a letters degree, but the reason I've been resisting all of that is because I'm like, go learn yourselves.
00:10:12:05 - 00:10:22:19
Luna
I don't know, but tell us about your relationship to teaching and what especially it sounds like it's related to the kink community that you're a part of. Like, what does it feed in you?
00:10:22:21 - 00:10:30:12
Jenna
Yeah. So I always joke that I run on spite and caffeine. Those are my two bites. Wait, you right there? Yes. It's a.
00:10:30:12 - 00:10:32:07
Luna
Funny joke. I don't get it.
00:10:32:09 - 00:10:34:03
Jenna
I'm a Capricorn. I run on spite.
00:10:34:05 - 00:10:36:03
Luna
But you seem nice. Despite spite.
00:10:36:05 - 00:11:04:19
Jenna
Mean like verbal spite. It's not like it's certain. So I'll explain. And maybe this example will help a little bit. So my biggest like reason that I started teaching was because there is so much gatekeeping intent, and I don't love that. I hate the idea of having all of these resources of, you know, here, I'm showing you this thing that I learned how to do, but no, you can't learn how to do it.
00:11:04:21 - 00:11:06:08
Luna
Where do you see this happening?
00:11:06:10 - 00:11:21:12
Jenna
And it's a lot local to me, but I see it a lot kind of, you know, I've traveled outside of of my local community and it's not as prevalent in certain areas, but I would comfortably say that at least across the US, I've seen it in a lot of different communities.
00:11:21:15 - 00:11:30:13
Luna
When they say, like, you can't do it, it's it's like you're not experienced enough. Or is it like if this is behind a paywall or is it like you would need to be my mentee? Like, what exactly do you mean?
00:11:30:13 - 00:11:53:14
Jenna
There all of the above, you know, and mixture of those things. And I know that's something that's been very in the forefront of the community right now, just because that's where I spend the most of my time. I see it a lot that a lot of the things that have been historically behind paywalls and things like that turning out to be abusive in some way to some community of people.
00:11:53:14 - 00:12:18:03
Jenna
And there have been a lot of situations of that that have been coming out recently, and there's just so much of like people telling other people that they can't do rope or that they don't have the body for rope or know anything like that. And that is kind of what fuels, especially in rope, that's that's what fuels me teaching, because I was also told that I could not do rope at one point in my life.
00:12:18:05 - 00:12:29:16
Jenna
Oh, okay. Well, taking that and learning everything that I could to a point that I could then teach others so that, like, no one ever felt the way that I felt in that situation. Yeah. That's huge. Yeah.
00:12:29:22 - 00:12:46:03
Luna
Would you feel comfortable sharing? Is there an answer like is there a body that's not okay to do rope like perhaps one that gets numb too fast? I have stayed away from rope bottoming. It's like a level four on my bucket list right now. Where one is the top five is the bottom. Because I'm like, I know about myself.
00:12:46:03 - 00:13:02:09
Luna
I have poor proprioception and I require, in order to feel safe, a high level of knowledge and awareness. And I have body scared. So like, I don't want to fuck up my nerves because I know that the thing with rope. But that's not, I think, what you're talking about. Like what?
00:13:02:11 - 00:13:06:02
Jenna
The only bodies that can't do rope are the bodies that don't want to do rope.
00:13:06:05 - 00:13:07:09
Luna
Great. Okay, cool.
00:13:07:11 - 00:13:15:11
Jenna
Yeah, yeah. There's always some. It doesn't have to be suspension. You know, there's always some flipper of rope that if someone wants rope, they can do it.
00:13:15:13 - 00:13:20:12
Luna
You can always tie a single column around your own leg. I've done that. You know?
00:13:20:14 - 00:13:36:00
Jenna
Exactly. Like you don't have to be doing like, rope. Doesn't have to be a circus. It can be like, some of my favorite scenes that I've done have been me and a partner with, like, a single piece of rope in the middle of my dining room floor, like so. So it doesn't have to be anything crazy.
00:13:36:02 - 00:13:54:15
Luna
It is very interesting to me when people get these ideas about like, this thing has to be this certain way. And I'm like, but why are you not speaking in first person? Like, it's fine if you say that. If you say for me, it's this. So that's what okay, so so I love that you're doing that. What else is feeling juicy about it or.
00:13:54:15 - 00:13:57:14
Luna
Well, what else do you want us to know about your teaching self?
00:13:57:16 - 00:14:19:22
Jenna
I'm just having fun, honestly. Like I been able to teach a bit locally. I've taught a couple classes like outside of my local community, which has been awesome, and I've gotten to meet so many great people doing it and gotten to co-teach with people that I like have looked up to for years, which is incredible. And I'm always looking to build new content.
00:14:19:22 - 00:14:35:13
Jenna
So like, you know, I'm sharing my socials. So if anyone ever has ideas like I'm always down to help other people plan classes that they want to teach, that may not be something that I can teach her, that I want to learn or anything like that. Fuck yeah. Yeah.
00:14:35:13 - 00:14:41:03
Luna
Is there anything on your bucket list teaching or playing that you haven't crossed off yet?
00:14:41:05 - 00:15:01:10
Jenna
I think my biggest thing right now is just getting like, anyone who wants to be in rope and rope, that's on my bucket list right now and however that works. You know, I did two scenes with two of my very, very good friends few weeks ago, and it was the first time either of them had ever done suspension or like rope scenes like that.
00:15:01:12 - 00:15:17:18
Jenna
And in the meantime, another friend of ours came up and asked me because everyone had always told them that they were too large to be suspended. So they were like, well, I just saw you suspend someone your own size and then climb on top of them. So like, could you suspend me? And I was like, absolutely, let's do it.
00:15:17:19 - 00:15:22:05
Jenna
So yeah, that's kind of just helping other people find rope joy too.
00:15:22:11 - 00:15:27:15
Luna
Okay. So am I understanding correctly a suspension on their first time being tied?
00:15:27:17 - 00:15:39:11
Jenna
Yeah, I tend to do that. That's kind of I don't want to say a kink of mine, but it kind of is that I love to give people their first rope ride. So if they want it, I will show them the shuttle.
00:15:39:11 - 00:15:57:00
Luna
I fly on a plane right now straight to you this year. Oh, God damn it. Okay, we'll talk afterwards. Holy cow. I didn't realize that. Wow. So. Wow. Okay, I don't want you to give away all your secrets. I also don't want to be a gatekeeper. What if someone out there listening is like. Oh, I too have never tried.
00:15:57:00 - 00:16:23:20
Luna
I too would like to be suspended because I know just from interviewing people and talking to friends who are into rope, that there is also some potentially dangerous territory. If they're with a top that maybe doesn't know all the things. So if someone like me is an eager bottom that wants to, you know, or perhaps they've seen these pictures of beautiful suspensions, because I also get the feeling that a lot of it is like visual bucket list checking, kind of like when people go to like the vacation destination to snap the picture for Instagram.
00:16:23:22 - 00:16:29:19
Luna
What do people need to know at a basic level to stay safe if they're wanting to dabble in this realm.
00:16:29:21 - 00:16:57:13
Jenna
They need to be comfortable saying what they want. They need to be comfortable saying what they don't want. And I would say, especially if people are planning to be suspended, make sure it's someone that if a rope top has gotten to the point that they are doing suspensions, someone in their local community knows them. So I would say anyone that can be checked up on, you know, willing to do it in a public place.
00:16:57:15 - 00:17:24:18
Jenna
My consent and negotiation guide is always available. It's on a Google drive. Anyone just has to message me that once it talks all the way through negotiating a suspension, seeing as a top or a bottom to help figuring out what the knowledge of the top and the bottom are. So there are a lot of questions that are very bottom LED, but it allows the bottom to ask questions that you know, help keep them safe and anything.
00:17:24:20 - 00:17:37:06
Luna
And then because I know people can be divided on this for you personally, is rope inherently erotic? Could it be erotic or not erotic? Or is it just kind of like a thing you do?
00:17:37:08 - 00:17:51:21
Jenna
I think it's erotic, but not sexual. So for me, there's a very like stark contrast between that. Like I don't do sex scenes with my rope scenes, but it's still very sexy and very erotic and very intimate. For me.
00:17:51:23 - 00:17:57:16
Luna
What counts as a sex scene in that context and what makes it erotic when it's not a sex scene? For you?
00:17:57:18 - 00:18:07:13
Jenna
I would say anything that involves genitalia being touched, like anything that involves any type of penetration during rope would be considered a scene for me personally.
00:18:07:13 - 00:18:09:17
Luna
Okay, what about nipple pinching?
00:18:09:19 - 00:18:12:05
Jenna
Well, sometimes I do that with the rope and it's just fun.
00:18:12:05 - 00:18:14:11
Luna
So you can pinch nipples with a rope.
00:18:14:17 - 00:18:15:20
Jenna
Yeah. Tongues.
00:18:15:20 - 00:18:18:10
Luna
Nipple ears I like you're like.
00:18:18:10 - 00:18:29:17
Jenna
You're like my rope in the air. You can twist the rope so it's open and then every twist. Oh or ends and pinch the nipple in between them.
00:18:29:19 - 00:18:41:04
Luna
I'm going to do that to myself. That'll be in December. Okay. I think that's a new dude. Okay, I have another rope question for you because this is immediately I didn't realize we were going to talk about rope so much. This is this feel very relevant.
00:18:41:06 - 00:18:43:23
Jenna
Of like 3000ft of rope hanging.
00:18:44:04 - 00:19:01:02
Luna
So you're the perfect person to answer this question. What if, theoretically, someone's very good friend, it's me. But I'm not the friend. I'm the person. Someone's like, hey, I have a kind of random Christmas present for you. It's like kind of an ax. It's kind of a joke. It's not really a joke. You could probably use it.
00:19:01:02 - 00:19:17:12
Luna
I don't know if you'll need it. This just accidentally got delivered to my house from Amazon with someone else's name. And it's rope and it's white. It doesn't seem too stretchy. I can't tell what material it is, so I don't know how to use it or what it will do to me. How do I figure it out?
00:19:17:13 - 00:19:32:18
Jenna
So you have your main types of rope. You have synthetic, which are going to be your manmade fibers. You have natural fiber which is going to be obviously your natural fibers. Natural fibers are going to be more of a twisty plait type. Right? Okay.
00:19:32:20 - 00:19:48:21
Luna
Wait. If I go get it and show you, do you think you'll be able to tell? I want you to know that I am resisting all of my urges to pinch my nipples right now with this rope. I will save that for my bucket list exploration. It's very soft feeling happen.
00:19:48:23 - 00:19:50:13
Jenna
Okay, fine, I just can't.
00:19:50:13 - 00:20:00:05
Luna
Damn it. I was going to grab it first. Okay? But I really did get cotton out loud to my friend. Yeah. Okay. So what do we need to know about cotton ropes? And what's your favorite rope?
00:20:00:07 - 00:20:20:06
Jenna
Cotton is generally pretty easy. It's nice and stretchy. It sticks to itself well. So you're going to have a lot of the sliding issues that you'll have with like a nylon or something a little more silky. And I think it's a great beginner rope, and especially because it's cheap. And like if you get a knot tied in it, you can always that you can't untie, you can always cut it.
00:20:20:12 - 00:20:45:07
Jenna
It's surprisingly cheap and very easy to use, easy to work with. I know that's what we start a lot of our beginners in and we have like a fetish event that they go through like 33 miles of that every year. So that's so cool. Well, personal favorite is jute I love it. It's natural fiber and it's scratchy and it just gives all of the right sensations that I love.
00:20:45:07 - 00:20:49:15
Luna
So that's awesome. You like it as a top or bottom or both?
00:20:49:17 - 00:20:51:08
Jenna
Yes, both.
00:20:51:10 - 00:20:57:08
Luna
Tell us about your local rope community. Like what's getting revamped? What do you love? What do you wanting to inspire?
00:20:57:10 - 00:21:35:06
Jenna
Yeah. So my local community, it's very like this hat. It follows a lot of very heteronormative like gender roles, things like that. I guess it's kind of what you stereotypically even think of when you think of rope spaces, older guys tying skinny white women. And so my process of revamping is trying to create spaces and allow myself to be a space for, you know, queer people, for people of color, for larger bodied folks who generally aren't in rope or queer couples or any number of any combination of those things.
00:21:35:06 - 00:22:01:16
Jenna
So I started out a lot of just trying to, you know, take the identities that I have as a queer person, as, you know, femme presenting person as a large body person and just kind of be that representation in those spaces. Whereas now I'm trying a little more to, you know, taking on the role of a as an educator to teach, you know, tying someone with a larger body is no different than tying someone with a smaller body.
00:22:01:16 - 00:22:25:13
Jenna
You just need more rope. So, like things like that and just making that space, you know, learning from queer instructors, educators from elsewhere, learning from, you know, there are some really great women of color who are also educators and things like that. So like learning from them and giving them credit and sending other people to them has kind of been been my goal.
00:22:25:13 - 00:22:38:07
Jenna
And I'm currently noodling with the idea of starting a queer like femme and gender expansive group for. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
00:22:38:09 - 00:23:02:08
Luna
I want to circle back to what you said at the beginning about, you know, understanding where other people are coming from, how to put words in your mouth. That's how my brain remember it right in this moment. But you know what I heard you say? That's informed by your own identities, many of what you just mentioned. And I also imagine you still encounter situations where there are people who have different backgrounds than you do.
00:23:02:10 - 00:23:14:14
Luna
What are sort of the efforts you make to connect, like what is kind of your process around opening up to see as an educator, like who's in your space, right. Also, is it all mostly in person right now or do you do online stuff too?
00:23:14:14 - 00:23:17:01
Jenna
Okay, hopefully done in person so far.
00:23:17:02 - 00:23:34:00
Luna
I was like, teaching stuff online sounds really tough. I mean, I know it's what I have their versions, but 2024 is the year of I really want to be in person with people. So how do you kind of get a baseline and, you know, stick that measuring stick in to see where people are coming from.
00:23:34:02 - 00:23:56:14
Jenna
So my teaching style in itself kind of allows for that. I like my classes to be collaborative, so I'm always going to start my classes with some kind of an activity. I have a pile of poster boards behind me that I teach, and, you know, I'll take in a blank if it's a rope class specifically. Like I will try and have people write down what their stereotypes of riggers of rope.
00:23:56:17 - 00:24:21:21
Jenna
I say rope bunnies. And then I explain why I don't like rope bunny as a term, and then also a self tires. And I will take in blank boards and have people write on those boards, like what they think of those stereotype types. And that gives me kind of a base level of the class that I'm teaching, you know, where they're coming from, where they are kind of in their journey, even just by doing like a simple activity like that.
00:24:21:23 - 00:24:22:20
Jenna
Okay.
00:24:22:22 - 00:24:45:12
Luna
Are you getting people from all sorts of background levels? Because I would qualify as a beginner. Beginner like I have been to one introductory rope class, and the organization of the class was difficult for me to follow. And I learned a single column time. And that is what I learned. And they taught a couple other things. But you know, are you getting baselines for like, I wouldn't even have any one of my stereotypes about a roped up.
00:24:45:12 - 00:25:05:04
Luna
Can I answer your prompts now that I'm thinking about it? Yeah, a rope top is very knowledgeable in rope. I would hope if I was talking to them they should have safety scissors and like lots of knowledge about how to walk me, the inexperienced bottom through my own if stuff goes numb and what I should be looking for.
00:25:05:06 - 00:25:45:03
Luna
And I guess they have to be tall enough to reach a loop on the ceiling, or know how to get a rope through it, and then a bottom. I don't really think about when I think about bunnies. I do think about Playboy bunnies and ranch bunnies, meaning like beautiful ladies who get paid for work things. And so I think about rope bottoms as people who have to have really intense body awareness and maybe, depending on how sadistic their rope top is, like some discomfort and like to get squished up depending on whatever the agreement is or like some form of bondage and compression, even if it's just on their actual skin and body.
00:25:45:03 - 00:26:04:18
Luna
So maybe they are very sensational, sensational, sensory oriented. And then a what's the other, what's the third thing? Oh, a self-timer. Oh my gosh, I guess I have a stereotype here because it's I'm like, that's just a person who's learning. I also will admit I'm pretty heavily biased of like for me when I'm like, masturbation. I love masturbating.
00:26:04:19 - 00:26:22:02
Luna
I do it daily usually unless I'm very tired or traveling, but for me it's still a different thing from a partner experience. So I guess I guess some of the judgments I have around myself there are. I'm either too lazy to find a partner, or too scared or too inept. Those are my favorite. Like, do you get answers like that?
00:26:22:02 - 00:26:24:09
Luna
Are there other things that are like way more common?
00:26:24:11 - 00:26:57:18
Jenna
I can say honestly that I have not hit a common answer yet. Okay, cool. Sometimes the trigger, they'll just put like, man, that'll be the whole answer. What really? Or like the stereotype of real bottoms is like woman. That's it. Oh but I'll also get you know, a rigor is confident and skilled and blah blah blah or I'll get you know, a bottom is knowledgeable and comfortable in their body and self tires.
00:26:57:18 - 00:27:10:20
Jenna
I think especially I wouldn't say just in my community because I know a lot of other like very, very skilled self tires, but we have a lot of self suspenders in our community, including myself. What?
00:27:10:22 - 00:27:13:03
Luna
So if I knew that was a thing.
00:27:13:05 - 00:27:30:22
Jenna
Yeah. So that pushes the bias a lot in the self tying stereotype because it's people that are like, oh well, they're confident and skilled and brave and blah blah blah. So like it's all things that fit into that self suspending like a beginner like you said. So in a whole range.
00:27:31:00 - 00:27:39:11
Luna
Where do you keep your do you keep scissors if you're self suspended or do you just like know what to do so you don't like and what if you cut yourself down like.
00:27:39:12 - 00:27:43:04
Jenna
I actually I also scuba dive. I don't know if we've ever talked about that little bit.
00:27:43:05 - 00:27:43:17
Luna
We have.
00:27:43:17 - 00:27:55:00
Jenna
I have, safety hook that I use for scuba diving that has Velcro on it, and I'll usually Velcro it somewhere on my person, like in my bra or something like that. So while I'm talking, it's way on.
00:27:55:02 - 00:28:07:22
Luna
I have a related but unrelated question, because one of our sweet listeners continues to email me like Aqua philia content. Is that a thing for you at all? Like, have you ever gotten sexy while scuba diving? Because it is a thing.
00:28:08:00 - 00:28:13:17
Jenna
I have, but I wouldn't say it was like a kink thing. It was more just like, I want to see if I can make this work. Tape. Hold on.
00:28:13:19 - 00:28:16:06
Luna
Yeah, yeah, okay. And did it work?
00:28:16:09 - 00:28:24:22
Jenna
What did you do? Oh, yeah. Okay. It was famous doing it on land. Except a little more complicated. Okay.
00:28:25:00 - 00:28:26:12
Luna
That's right.
00:28:26:14 - 00:28:32:12
Jenna
I do really want to do a rope scene underwater, though. I haven't quite figured out the existence of that yet, but I'm working.
00:28:32:12 - 00:28:47:21
Luna
Oh, that would be very beautiful. I would get roped up and, like, tossed into a pool if I knew someone was definitely going to get me out in a certain amount of time, like, that's something. And now that my hair is long running, I could do cool underwater shoots, you know, which was which was really the only thing about not having hair.
00:28:47:21 - 00:29:08:15
Luna
Besides, I couldn't get it pulled that I didn't like, so. Okay, here's a follow up question. It's fun for you. How do you make sure that you are feeling a appropriately valued, whether as a rock top, an educator, etc.? What is the piece that helps you know that you were being like, valued in a way that is meaningful and important to you.
00:29:08:17 - 00:29:28:22
Jenna
Some type of connection with the person. So I will give an example here. And it doesn't have to be like a super deep connection. It can be, you know, hello, my name is I'm using you as an example. Hello, my name is Y0, and I saw what you did over there, and I really enjoyed watching you. And I would like to do that sometime.
00:29:28:22 - 00:29:49:04
Jenna
Like, would you be willing to talk with me about potentially doing that or see if we met? I did, I've seen a couple of weeks ago with someone that we finished and the person it's another third party, walked up to me and said, if you ever need a rock bottom, let me know. Someone I did not know the wall like so.
00:29:49:06 - 00:29:56:10
Jenna
Just that connection of like, I recognize you as a person. You are not a rope dispenser wants to. Yeah. Yes.
00:29:56:13 - 00:30:14:13
Luna
Oh, I really love that section. You are so articulate. Anything else to say about like, rope or updates in that realm, or do you want to move on like you came out as gay? Tell us about that. You were bisexual when we talked last time or identifying as such. You're always the same person. But, you know, tell us how that story has evolved.
00:30:14:15 - 00:30:40:04
Jenna
So I actually still have a man partner that, you know, I love very much. And I think he is my one exception that makes the rule currently. And I was I started dating, you know, someone new. And I have realized within the past year and a half or so that a lot of the, you know, attraction that I was having was leaning a lot more heavily toward women.
00:30:40:06 - 00:31:09:20
Jenna
And I spent a lot of time in therapy. You talked about it, and I think a lot of the, you know, things that I was having that were saying that I shouldn't be dating men or anything like that. It was a lot of like internalized homophobia and things like that. So I think there was a lot that I was just not realizing that, you know, I was dating men a lot more because which I haven't done a lot as of late anyway, like dating men.
00:31:09:22 - 00:31:21:00
Jenna
Yeah. But I'm not that attracted to men. And, like, women can give me all of the things that men can give me, like, physically. And I was like, I want to be like, yeah.
00:31:21:02 - 00:31:37:20
Luna
I'm going to make a comment or something that I personally feel lines up with my experience. And I'd like to hear your reflection on it. As a person who has self-identified also as neurodivergent, do you find femmes socially more complicated, though?
00:31:37:22 - 00:32:01:02
Jenna
I think I always have, yes, and I've been kind of terrified of them since I came out as bisexual, even. But I think also like I have really surrounded myself in this incredibly, like wonderful, supportive, like neurodivergent, kinky, like where all of my bits kind of intersect, like the community that I've built around me has all of those pieces.
00:32:01:04 - 00:32:20:18
Jenna
And the more time that I've spent around those people who are also polyamorous and also, you know, queer and also kinky and also neurodivergent, like, it's just easy to be around them, you know, the same people that I have been aligning myself with, like, they're not scary anymore.
00:32:20:20 - 00:32:51:12
Luna
Amazing. Okay. That's really helpful for me to hear. And just I'll just admit what I was saying to you before we started recording, which is like, you really are a touchstone in my brain of possible ality of, you know, involved community just as a person who the more that the podcast grows, the more difficult. I find all social interactions because people come from so many different places in my life, and the more I explore the hierarchy and do sex work related things, the more I'm just like, oh my God, the expectations make no sense in this world.
00:32:51:12 - 00:33:03:02
Luna
So what feels most important about that kind of label shift, or does it feel like an identity shift or just an identification shift? Like how do you language the important parts?
00:33:03:04 - 00:33:21:08
Jenna
I usually don't unless I'm asked to. So coming out with that label on my own was kind of a new thing for me. Just because I I'm not usually one that tends to feel the need to label things, but I'm around a lot of people who do want to label things like, well.
00:33:21:10 - 00:33:28:20
Luna
And yet you also spoke about it in therapy. You said, so there's something that was important, or was it because of the social pressures?
00:33:28:22 - 00:33:50:11
Jenna
I think it was just a lot of like, I'm hanging out around these people who, like, make me feel like my authentic self. I've been able to unmask a lot more. Being able to do that kind of just shifted. I don't want to say it shifted my identity, but it shifted like my outward identity and helped me figure out a lot more internally.
00:33:50:13 - 00:33:52:10
Jenna
That's cool.
00:33:52:12 - 00:34:01:23
Luna
And then I would love to hear when we spoke last you were telling us about anthology of a Slut. Yeah. Are you still writing. Where are we, where are we at?
00:34:02:00 - 00:34:31:15
Jenna
We're still writing. So, there was a shift in idea where, I was having a lot of, like, chaos. I guess I can say between. I was writing a lot about the people that I've had sex with, but also the people that I've had kink relationships with. And I was getting to a point where now that I'm where I'm at with kink and things like that, that those two things aren't always enmeshed with each other, like the kink in the sex are separate.
00:34:31:17 - 00:34:46:15
Jenna
So I've actually started splitting them and I'm going to do a specific Bdsm one, and then also anthology of a slut. So I'm in the process right now of having everything written, and I'm just dividing and figuring out what needs to go where.
00:34:46:19 - 00:35:06:02
Luna
Totally relatable. Damn. Very relatable. It's funny too, because as you were talking about being in community where you feel like you're able to express your whole authentic self, that is how I feel around sex workers. I'm like, oh, oh, there they like my keep. Oh, it's so supportive. Oh, there's no judgment here. You know what it sounds like?
00:35:06:02 - 00:35:14:06
Luna
Maybe you're finding that. But organizing the fucking writing, dude. What's your process like for that? Do you have like a rhythm and flow or is that also chaotic?
00:35:14:08 - 00:35:26:09
Jenna
It is a physical process for me and it's chaotic. I actually print everything and have hard copies of everything and I'm sorting it. I also I'm like, okay, I was here, this pile is here. Like I need to touch it.
00:35:26:11 - 00:35:40:13
Luna
That's really cool. When you say that, I'm like, I hope there's someone that sneaks in and like documents the process I'm making a gesture of taking a picture of them. Or maybe that you do it. I don't know, I really I love that sort of like documentation process. I guess that's another thing to organize, but not.
00:35:40:13 - 00:35:41:11
Jenna
Yeah, I it's.
00:35:41:13 - 00:35:51:11
Luna
Also in our first recording, we briefly touched on, but never got deeply into the details of how would you describe it? Religion. King spiritual sex.
00:35:51:11 - 00:36:38:04
Jenna
Like what do you think about I realize that my religion kink is actually not as much of a religion kink as much as it is a like desecration kink. So like the with the background that I have in religion, you know, being raised Catholic and jumping around to the religions that I've jumped around to and keeping the spirituality that I keep and things like that, I have realized that, you know, just because of my experiences with, like, the Christian faith, any instance that I can get to like, desecrate some things that were like, I don't want to say traumatic, but like heavy in my life and like make them into fun, enjoyable things has just
00:36:38:04 - 00:36:43:03
Jenna
been like the bread and butter of this year and I was beautiful.
00:36:43:03 - 00:36:47:14
Luna
Do you feel comfy sharing a couple of examples that were particularly gratifying.
00:36:47:16 - 00:37:09:09
Jenna
So there's actually there's a dungeon that I really love that had a blasphemy party earlier this year, and it was all like they did a black mass at midnight, and there were people, like being flogged and like we took communion naked, like it was just a lot of. And it was kind of just an anything ghost type thing.
00:37:09:09 - 00:37:38:00
Jenna
So like, I suspended myself and my partner, like, did that, like Ash Wednesday cross with Holy Oil and Paul mash on my forehead, and I poured wax on myself and stamped it with a pentagram, wax seal. And we had an altar cloth that I may or may not have borrowed from the church that I grew up in. When I left that Kirk moments are like forever, long since borrowed forever.
00:37:38:02 - 00:37:48:15
Jenna
We did a scene where we laid the altar cloth out on the table, and my partner like carved crosses into my back and like upside down and up crosses with the scalpel carved.
00:37:48:18 - 00:37:53:16
Luna
And it was helpful. Whoa, wait. So does it scar or is there a carving that doesn't fit?
00:37:53:16 - 00:38:02:03
Jenna
It didn't. I mean, you could if you wanted to, realistically, but that was a really, like, cathartic evening for me. And I really enjoyed that.
00:38:02:05 - 00:38:26:13
Luna
That's really beautiful. Yeah. And for me, when I think about these things like desecration, I respect people's religions, I respect their faith. And for me, any religion that claims to be about love. And then I interview people and over and over and over and over and over again, like the actual biggest problem in their whole life created a lot of like the hatred, self-hatred and shame.
00:38:26:13 - 00:38:32:01
Luna
When that's religion, I'm like, there's some problems here. So I fully support that.
00:38:32:03 - 00:38:50:21
Jenna
And like the desecration side of it, like it's the same thing. Like I have nothing against the Christian faith. It's more the idolatry and all of the show bits of it that I'm like, this is not your faith, I guess. Or not my faith. I'm right. I'm speaking in first person here. Like, this is not my faith. This is how I was raised.
00:38:50:21 - 00:38:56:07
Jenna
And even if this is what I believe, like, these things are not. Yeah, they're just physical things.
00:38:56:09 - 00:39:11:04
Luna
And you reclaim them. It sounds like in a very delicious way. I would love to hear if you could enlighten those of us who maybe don't fully understand or understand some layers, but maybe, like every day we're like, I understand a new layer. Fuck how am I doing this for five years? And I keep learning new things every day.
00:39:11:04 - 00:39:26:09
Luna
I don't get it, but I would love to hear today kind of, how do you organize in your brain or your heart or your body or wherever it feels sex and keep like kink turns you on? Does it feel your sex, the sex feel? Is there a relationship? Is there ever still crossover for you? Like how do you.
00:39:26:12 - 00:39:37:02
Jenna
Expect the women I explain it to people that feels like the most concise way is that my sex is always kinky, but my kink isn't always sex.
00:39:37:04 - 00:39:41:02
Luna
So I get that. Squares and circle or squares and rectangles.
00:39:41:04 - 00:39:54:23
Jenna
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. They can get something in itself that like it may not be sex for me, but it's still something that's intimate. It's still something that is fun and still fulfills a need that I have, whether that is a sexual need or not. Yeah.
00:39:55:01 - 00:40:00:04
Luna
So now at this point in your life, what are your sexual hopes going forward?
00:40:00:06 - 00:40:06:13
Jenna
Oh man, I even relisten to that episode today and still was not planning for this. Man.
00:40:06:15 - 00:40:10:08
Luna
I wasn't either. I just surprised with the question, but it seems like the logical.
00:40:10:10 - 00:40:26:13
Jenna
Part of my sexual hopes going forward are to. I mean, just keep being weird. Like, I like to be weird and it's fun, so I'm just going to keep doing that. Yeah, yeah.
00:40:26:15 - 00:40:55:15
Luna
Okay. Now I would like to enlist your help. So I don't want to get sucked into the downward spiral of like, how fucking stupid censorship is. However, I have continued to receive messages upon messages from people that are like, I miss your podcast. Why did you stop doing it? Because even people who follow us on Spotify, and I guess there's a lot of Spotify listeners that can't find it, like Sex Stories is being buried beneath things that are much more salacious, much more slutty.
00:40:55:15 - 00:41:17:10
Luna
We even switched to be hosted at megaphone, which is owned by Spotify. We are banned from the Spotify Podcast AD network, which has the highest levels of programmatic ads. So podcasts, just like sex stories, perhaps maybe even slightly more salacious ones, are getting this like the highest tier advertising, which is like the difference is a zero at the end of it.
00:41:17:10 - 00:41:37:21
Luna
Right? So we're getting a few hundred dollars a month from programmatic ads. Spotify, like it's next level. Meanwhile, our numbers are dropping because people literally can't find it when many people have let me know that when they type when I type sex stories into my Spotify, depending on the day, I have to scroll through between 20 and 70 other search results, even in the podcast category.
00:41:37:21 - 00:41:56:13
Luna
Before I can find it, I copy and pasted the entire name of an episode into the search bar because I was looking for it and it didn't show up at all, so I don't know what's happening there. I've reached out to Spotify Help several times and they say everyone's algorithm is different, and they say it may have to do with the recent ratings.
00:41:56:13 - 00:42:15:23
Luna
So January of 2023, we had like a four point something rating. It's currently sitting at a 2.9 because we have been, I guess, attacked by trolls. I wasn't really paying attention. I try to not like pay attention to trolls and things. So all of that is to say, I think we might need to rename the podcast. And also I think I might be branching out.
00:42:16:01 - 00:42:37:22
Luna
Obviously I still love sex stories forever. It it's fueled my entire life. All of my stuff going forward is sex and creativity related, right? Sex is our original creativity. But I'm wondering what is like an umbrella term for like like what drives me is the search for connection, right? I'm always trying to understand why and how people connect in sex.
00:42:38:04 - 00:42:59:21
Luna
I've always thought of sex stories as offering kind of the emotional containers, like filling in the gaps. Even if someone got really excellent, fact based, medically appropriate, age appropriate sex education. There usually isn't emotional context, but like, what's a non nerdy way of being like connection stories or like more, you know, like I'm playing around with play stories.
00:42:59:21 - 00:43:12:20
Luna
I'm playing around with something that could be a preface, you know, like connection stories, sex story. How, how do you human sex stories. But I'm also trying to think of searchable things. This is not your job, but do you have any noodles?
00:43:12:22 - 00:43:24:13
Jenna
Oh, my gosh. I mean, I feel like in like, the first thing that popped into my head was something play related that feels so authentic to you and to what this is.
00:43:24:13 - 00:43:40:22
Luna
I was thinking, play with me because also it has a little bit of in know, but I'm like, is that too much? I can't tell what's going to be too much, you know, like play with me sex stories play with me. Because I also have many other question lists on the website that wildly.com/share. I have divorce stories, creativity stories, love stories, relationship stories.
00:43:40:22 - 00:43:51:16
Luna
Because the more that I find out about sex, the more I'm like, well, fuck. I think I understand people way less than I realize. Okay, so what do you think of play With Me?
00:43:51:18 - 00:43:52:09
Jenna
I like that.
00:43:52:14 - 00:43:58:00
Luna
But does it imply stories? How do we talk about friendship? Because I also really want to understand friendship.
00:43:58:01 - 00:44:03:05
Jenna
What about play? Space? Play? Oh play space.
00:44:03:05 - 00:44:06:14
Luna
Why? Oh, play space. Okay, I like play space.
00:44:06:14 - 00:44:12:02
Jenna
Channel my muse. Because that implies that there's a lot going on. Like, there's more.
00:44:12:07 - 00:44:13:10
Luna
Space.
00:44:13:12 - 00:44:14:11
Jenna
Purpose.
00:44:14:13 - 00:44:34:17
Luna
And then because it could still be like, play space. Genesis sex stories Update Kimberly is in the process of slowly but surely going back through all the old episodes to save for work ify them. Yeah, in an effort to get advertising. Meanwhile, we are actively like approaching sponsors that are like cool with me being a sex worker and cool with like explicitness.
00:44:34:17 - 00:44:53:10
Luna
But also in the meantime, we're trying to figure out how to make sure that we can, you know, keep it all afloat. So damn, I love that noodle place. Place is good. I mean, I do want to have a play space, creation space. And it's all about creative. Okay. Damn, Jenna, thank you so much for coming back to share your updates with our Sweet Sex Stories audience.
00:44:53:14 - 00:44:54:16
Jenna
And happy to.
00:44:54:18 - 00:45:05:11
Luna
Lovers. You can find Jenna on the internet at Wild Card Chaos that's both on Instagram and also on FET life, and the links are in the description below. Jenna, thank you so much.
00:45:05:13 - 00:45:06:06
Jenna
Thank you.
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