Navigating Jealousy & Noticing Needs: Leah’s Update
- Luna Robbie
- Jun 11, 2024
- 47 min read
30s queer woman, she/her pronouns, non-monogamous, married 11 years, screenwriter
🔗 LEAH LINKS | @newtononmonogamy / @leahfolta
00:00:00:11 - 00:00:22:12
Luna
And our guest today is a woman in her 30s who is portly and partnered. She's been with her husband for 11 years, and they've been monogamous the whole time. Open to dating other people for three years and polyamorous for one year. She's a screenwriter who's in the other kind? Slutty nerds. Originally from episode 20, the woman who asks you out with last year's update.
00:00:22:14 - 00:00:29:08
Luna
We are open and queer links are in the description below. If you want to go, listen to those. Welcome back, my sweet, friendly,
00:00:29:10 - 00:00:32:15
Leah
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so happy to be back.
00:00:32:17 - 00:00:46:10
Luna
I'm so excited to have you back. Let's start by getting today's baseline. If you had to rate yourself on a sexual shame, a meter with ten being the most full of shame and 1 or 0 being like, I don't have it. Where are we right now in general?
00:00:46:12 - 00:00:56:04
Leah
Wow, this is new. Sexual shame. And so separating that out from, like, regular anxiety or romantic shame or like, it's.
00:00:56:04 - 00:01:11:17
Luna
Specifically when you think about sex, I guess for you, maybe it has to do with polyamory or the fact that you're, you're on this podcast with me, you know, it can happen. And feel free to give details of the answer. Right. Like beyond the number, I'm like, yeah, tell us about your shaming poster or whatever, because my mind still gets squiggly sometimes.
00:01:11:17 - 00:01:20:23
Luna
Mostly it's like a one or a zero. But then sometimes when I'm with partners, I'm like nine, ten, 12, you know? So, I still get shy.
00:01:21:01 - 00:01:42:10
Leah
Yeah. You know, I might be at, like, a 2 or 3, because I, I think it generally is very low. You know, I just. Yeah. And I'm kind of, exhausted with trying to, like, entertain any of this shame ever. It's just like, I don't know, I just don't even know how to, like, incorporate this into my life.
00:01:42:11 - 00:02:08:16
Leah
Like, how do you deal with it besides just trying to tell yourself to ignore it? We were actually, before we started recording, talking a little bit about when you're dating men specifically who don't love, for you to be honest about how enthusiastic you are or just like you're your actual opinions and boundaries and stuff, like you need to, like, put on a little bit of, tease or something.
00:02:08:16 - 00:02:37:03
Leah
And it's like, even with all of everything I've been doing, being married for 11 years and like dating people and dating really open minded people and feeling like I'm doing a good job filtering for that, that still can be so true. So I think, I think that, put me in a little bit of, shame place. I also with all of that, like open, open minded people and, dating them and that being my world generally and stuff.
00:02:37:05 - 00:02:52:07
Leah
I'm on my period. That is still like complicated with but and with it really is and. Yeah. Which I don't like and resent. But, you know, wait.
00:02:52:07 - 00:02:57:02
Luna
But do you feel comfy unpacking a little bit of those details? I know that's not exactly what you came on to talk about.
00:02:57:05 - 00:03:35:21
Leah
I think I know, but it applies to a lot of people. Yeah, I just, I think I have different partners with various comfort levels. And they're all, yeah, I've still had a really hard time dating, women and, people, I think just like a lot of, and and, yeah, their various comfort levels with, sex on your period, and, I don't know, I at least the impression I've gotten is I'm not seeing anyone who is 100% comfortable with.
00:03:35:23 - 00:03:39:11
Luna
You have not met the lover. That's like, I'll go down on you.
00:03:39:13 - 00:04:00:18
Leah
Yeah. And I want that so bad. And it's like, I want it so bad. And I understand why it's not like something I want to hold against anybody for not doing. But, yeah, it's a dream of mine. I just, I think it would be very healing to be with somebody who, like, isn't, who doesn't care about it at all.
00:04:00:20 - 00:04:21:13
Leah
Yeah. And, and, I think, I don't want to say anything that, like, makes them look bad or anything. I, I think my husband has been on a journey with it, where now he is comfortable with it, but it's always like, I don't know. Well, what are we doing later? And I have to shower and, like, whatever.
00:04:21:16 - 00:04:27:20
Leah
And it's still like, yeah, not the the fantasy level of comfort that I guess I've been like, hoping for.
00:04:27:20 - 00:04:52:01
Luna
I guess I totally get that. And I will say, just like I did have the experience that did shift my internal world a lot when I was with a partner who was like, oh, so you're saying I get to have a bloody sword? And I was like, oh, you know, and then the first time that someone wanted to go down on me because I've had maybe 2 or 3 partners where I was at, the fluid bonded level, where they were allowed to have their access to me.
00:04:52:01 - 00:05:08:16
Luna
And I was on my bleed, and I had one that was like specifically into, not in a like, let me drink your blood submissive sort of way, but just just like, that hot. I like all of you. This is part of your divine feminine. I was like, oh, you know. And then I had another one that was just like, I am so attracted to you.
00:05:08:16 - 00:05:41:16
Luna
It does not matter. But also as a person who I have my own sensory like needs that are related to squishy things, you know, like there are certain things that I'm like, but I also, because of those experiences, have noticed how much my own anxiety around it has shifted, you know, and then and so that and then noticing how that plays off of people and also noticing when I'm with a new partner, if I'm on my period, I'll be like, because I have cramps, because I just feel grosser in my body.
00:05:41:16 - 00:06:06:00
Luna
It's not like, oh, I'm disgusting or dirty. It's just like I can smell me in a way that I don't love. And I also feel crampy. And so if I'm getting to be physical with someone for the first time, I'm like, I would rather wait to like, feel at my fullest self for a first experience. But if it's a partner that I'm already with, I'm like, well, if you're weirded out by that, you can just give me massages.
00:06:06:00 - 00:06:24:17
Luna
Or how about you rub oil on my ass? Or, you know, you can whatever. Like and so that's been almost an opportunity to discover other types of intimacy. Do you feel comfy sharing about the, like difficulty with pussy owner partners that you've experienced in terms of like dating or do you have. Yeah. Like what. Yeah yeah yeah.
00:06:24:19 - 00:06:37:23
Leah
Yeah. It just I mean I think a large part of it is just that in the numbers game of dating. Yeah, there are fewer, pussy owners dating women, you know,
00:06:38:00 - 00:07:05:15
Luna
I just have to still figure out the social dynamic of that leading to. I'm like, I already them. And it's so difficult. And dudes at least have, like, less emotions that they're willing to share publicly because of, you know, more normative socialization. So those ones tend to be more straightforward. Whereas I'm like, oh my God, what I'm trying to do a pussy owner person, I feel like there's tricks and traps and certain things signals that I don't pick up on.
00:07:05:15 - 00:07:09:15
Luna
And so I'm like, I really need a straightforward human to fuck you. No.
00:07:09:17 - 00:07:31:10
Leah
Absolutely no, I cause it's like, okay, I'm like this. So I feel like I should be able to find another, like person who is socialized this way, who still came out straightforward. I'm whatever who also is attracted to me. But again, that that is just, you know, you're just carrying on, cutting down on the numbers of people available to you.
00:07:31:12 - 00:08:04:02
Leah
I think what you touched on is huge. Just like that, I, I'm used to dating men and people socialized as men from birth. And that's. Yeah, what I'm used to. So that's what I'm bringing to the table. And I think I think it was my husband who said something, a couple of him and somebody else in a short span of time, said something about how it's so much more subtle when you're flirting with women or dating women.
00:08:04:04 - 00:08:19:17
Leah
Other, pussy owners in general. And I was like, oh, my God, that is not a thought that has occurred like it isn't working. And so it was like, oh, that may maybe part of what's wrong?
00:08:19:19 - 00:08:34:01
Luna
Yeah. And I'm still trying to understand romance and so many popular movies like Pride and Love, Romance and Being Romanced and are also used to dating dudes if they're if they're bi or pan or, you know, queer in that kind of way and they're open.
00:08:34:01 - 00:08:35:04
Leah
With numbers, that's.
00:08:35:06 - 00:08:59:05
Luna
I. So then I'm like, all right. And I do have a lot of masculine energy, but I'm still practicing the discovery questions and learning what to step into. Right. And I probably, I probably really need like a Nike type to just tell me what to do, you know, in my submissive heart of hearts. But I'm like, no, I have a lot of what you call qualities I'm learning, and I would apply it to a girlfriend, but I'm also like figuring it like a.
00:08:59:08 - 00:09:26:22
Leah
Thing about, you know, the top stories and whatever, and about how like, that's bullshit and it's contested and whatever, but just like, looking for more, women and femmes who are. Yeah, confident, taking control. And so it's like, I don't know, I generally think of myself as a sub and like, less of a top, but I've felt like, okay, no, no, no, I can, like, I could show up that way if it exists shortage I need, I can.
00:09:27:00 - 00:09:31:14
Luna
Yeah, yeah. Service topping is basically like deep, deep submission in service of the relationship.
00:09:31:14 - 00:09:44:07
Leah
Like it's all. It's all. Yeah, that's so bad. When I first heard some joke online that was like, are you a switch or are you just such a someday I'll do whatever it's somebody needs. It's like, yes, yeah, I love that.
00:09:44:09 - 00:10:05:17
Luna
I, I don't think it's rude at all. I'm like, I'm like, well, there's all sorts of different types of switches and because I was so resistant, because people often cast me in the role of authority, I'm like, fuck, you know, I'm a follower. Don't try to make me a leader. And I finally had to just sort of realize that my inherent differentness or uniqueness or whatever makes me, by default, that leader.
00:10:05:17 - 00:10:23:08
Luna
And because I realized that I've always been charged for work, I'm like, oh, wait, the deepest service is to give all of those people a little relaxation that they crave. Yeah, I can do that, you know? And so it's even though there's this part of me that's like, I don't want to talk from the bottom, I would never be that naughty.
00:10:23:08 - 00:10:37:20
Luna
I'm like, oh, but if it's a gift, you know, in some now it's a matter of finding conscious partners and and the dance in it. And I'm, I have not yet, tried hard to date regularly lately, so I, I hear that.
00:10:37:22 - 00:10:56:02
Leah
Well, yeah. And I have, you know, it's been maybe like a month or two where I. Because, you know, usually if I'm looking for attention or my schedule is just lining up with the current people I'm dating, I just had a break up or something, and I'm getting back on the app. A lot of times I can get impatient and it is just easier.
00:10:56:04 - 00:11:29:22
Leah
Another big reason it's easier to date men and other mask people is because, you know, and I am going to say men because dating apps, were made for men with men in mind with their the ways they date and are comfortable dating and it's less safe for everybody else. So it's like socialization and literal safety have also created thought numbers balance that straight guys, have to deal with and complain about a lot, where it's like, I don't know, be a feminist and.
00:11:30:00 - 00:11:31:14
Luna
They love to complain about.
00:11:31:16 - 00:11:33:01
Leah
Yeah, make it nice.
00:11:33:03 - 00:12:04:07
Luna
And like, what are you providing value or do you think dating apps are a free delivery service? Oh, without mean a human being? Yeah. Can you even be curious enough to ask a question? Because I wasn't, so I was I recently have been on Sex Panther, where people have to pay to message me and I'm like, oh, I don't mind doing all the work to like, pull out any interesting pieces of information from these people who I think are just very, very terrified when I'm getting paid a couple dollars a message.
00:12:04:09 - 00:12:11:08
Luna
And it's also helped me realize the parts about dating that really just don't work for me. Like show up with some offers.
00:12:11:09 - 00:12:29:01
Leah
Yeah, there's a putting in effort. That's always that's been a long term. Yeah. Requirement for me is I'll ask a couple questions, but then if you're not asking me a question, yeah, I just let that conversation die. Yeah. But except not when I'm trying to date friends.
00:12:29:03 - 00:12:30:00
Luna
Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:30:02 - 00:12:57:02
Leah
I'll be like, no, I'll put in more effort. Totally. Try this. Oh. But yeah. So it's been a couple months of, like, my dating apps have only been set, to women and non-binary femmes and stuff for a while, and, yeah, I don't know, it's still not happening, but. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. I realize it's also a very, like, incel thing of me to be like, I announced, I want a girlfriend.
00:12:57:02 - 00:13:01:11
Leah
Where is she's not person either.
00:13:01:13 - 00:13:09:17
Luna
I don't think you're coming off as but like I don't I don't hear any of the, like shoulds. I hear it's just it's a, it's a big learning curve.
00:13:09:19 - 00:13:27:15
Leah
Yeah, yeah. And I've heard to like queer events around the city are a good place to meet people and I like, I've met, bi lady friends who have been like, yeah, yeah, yeah, let's do it together. All go together and then it just, I don't know, it's so hard to get anybody to do anything and people's schedules to line up.
00:13:27:15 - 00:13:42:17
Leah
I ended up going to one by myself. Yeah. And I haven't had the guts and yeah, schedule something to come back. So. Yeah. I don't know. I'm comfortable with it being more of a long term deal. Yeah.
00:13:42:19 - 00:13:44:07
Luna
Planting the seeds.
00:13:44:09 - 00:14:07:04
Leah
Yeah, yeah. And just trying to be relaxed about it, because I feel like you relate to this. To where? I feel like the level of straightforward that I like to be is also too much for a lot of men. So it's like, totally. Yeah. I just, I don't know, I'm doing a lot of unlearning and, trying to be chill about it.
00:14:07:06 - 00:14:07:19
Luna
Totally.
00:14:07:22 - 00:14:29:21
Leah
Totally. Yeah, yeah. But and the way that you've echoed a lot of these issues, it's like I've heard that in a lot of other women who date women and, pussy owners who date put the onus. Yeah. So it's just, I don't know. Everybody's struggling. The numbers are smaller, the socialization is different, especially if you're used to not dating them.
00:14:29:21 - 00:14:32:23
Leah
And so it's okay trying to take my time.
00:14:33:01 - 00:15:04:07
Luna
Yeah. I also have a couple of like, success stories in my personal sphere about like, queer femmes, you know, finding deep, deep happiness. And it's been from their own social spheres, not necessarily events, you know, because for me, I'm like, I just want to go to the daytime events, you know, like, and I went I went to a queer clothing swap yesterday and, you know, there I got in and I was like, all right, I find events totally overwhelming because there's a lot happening and I don't actually need clothes, but I gave away a lot of my good clothes, you know, and so I didn't.
00:15:04:10 - 00:15:26:10
Luna
And then I was like, could I hit on someone I don't know, why would I hit on someone? Visual stuff that seems shallow, you know, like so I, so I, I found myself asking the question of like, yeah, what what piece of connection am I looking for in, you know, a human, etc.. Yeah. So many noodles. What has been going on in your polyamorous life?
00:15:26:10 - 00:15:36:15
Luna
Like? It's been a little over a year since we talked. Like how have things been unfolding? How has it been feeling like you're now polyamorous, not just open, like what's what's it been like?
00:15:36:17 - 00:16:18:17
Leah
Yeah. Well, it yes, that was the big change I was excited to come and talk about. It's interesting, I think with that, the trying to learn to, I don't know, be less impatient and less just letting things unfold as they do has been a part of this as well. So it was, maybe a year and a half ago, a little over a year ago, right about the last time I came on, my husband said that he was comfortable with the idea of us, forming emotional connections with other people when previously it was like, okay, we're open, we're non-monogamous, but we're not, like, looking for other partners or anything.
00:16:18:19 - 00:16:54:13
Leah
And now it's more like we've been open to it, but it still didn't really happen until, and, it's still a pretty new thing, but I'm dating the first person who we've, like, stuck around with each other for, it's been like two and a half months. It's almost six months now. But they also are polyamorous and are in a seven year relationship, where, they've been poly, I think almost the whole time it was like right after the very beginning of their relationship.
00:16:54:13 - 00:17:26:13
Leah
So it's like also something they're open to. But it I don't know now that all of this is kind of on the table, and I'm doing something that is a little bit more emotional than it has typically been. All of my, like, past dating baggage is kind of coming up. And so it's been really, I think, healing and helpful, interest is like, oh, yeah, now that there are different boundaries as I'm moving through them, just different stuff is coming up.
00:17:26:13 - 00:17:48:07
Leah
And so it, it has been good and educational and, and I got word just in the beginning of it already, but, but yeah, it's, it's already been a lot of good learning and just the idea of, because I've been, trying to do couples and stuff, too, especially trying to date more femmes. It's like, okay, fine.
00:17:48:07 - 00:17:51:19
Leah
I feel like I like, yeah.
00:17:51:21 - 00:17:56:06
Luna
He can watch for starters and then we'll see. I don't know.
00:17:56:08 - 00:18:23:03
Leah
But we so I'm a little familiar now with, you know, the idea of hooking up with people where it's like you're not the priority emotionally in the dynamic, but, Yeah, me and this, other poly guy, with us dating each other, it's just new where it's like, this is a part of it is we both have partners who we prioritize.
00:18:23:03 - 00:18:28:13
Leah
And I know, you know, relationship hierarchy isn't for everyone, but,
00:18:28:15 - 00:18:48:06
Luna
But I know time is real. And when there's a hospital emergency, you can only be in one place at one time. So anytime someone's like, oh, I'm completely nonhierarchical, I'm like, okay, so you're a little bit unconscious and you're not, especially because they usually aren't able to articulate how they came to that, you know? And when I try to broach that conversation I get some interesting reactions.
00:18:48:06 - 00:19:17:01
Luna
So like for me, I'm like, I hear you. However, to me, like I hear the desire in that. And I think in my personal experiences so far, the people who subscribe to that are more aspirational in speech, and their actions don't necessarily match their words. And I'm open to experiencing something different. But I'm also like, is that a way for you to just tell me that you're not going to give me the level of attention that I clearly deserve, just at a basic human level?
00:19:17:03 - 00:19:49:05
Leah
Yeah. It's just announcing that you're not going to matter. Yeah. No, I, I totally I mean, and again, I don't believe that that's everybody I don't think yeah. In the ways that, shitty people have co-opted a lot of, non-monogamous language. That's definitely one of them. But, yeah. And it, I don't think that these people would necessarily be like, oh, yeah, it's always going to be number one and two or whatever, you know, like it's not that clear cut.
00:19:49:05 - 00:19:59:09
Leah
It's just like, oh, but if you guys have been together for seven years and we've been dating for two months. Yeah, of course it's going to be a different level of priority.
00:19:59:13 - 00:20:03:13
Luna
So it would be a red flag if suddenly.
00:20:03:15 - 00:20:03:20
Leah
They.
00:20:03:20 - 00:20:23:17
Luna
Gave me everything and were discarding their main part, like the partner that they have a bond with. You know, I also have had very interestingly confusing experiences with partners who, like, do have a primary partner and are clear about that and then love to tell me, like I've had to set boundaries on this, but like reasons that I'm better than that person.
00:20:23:18 - 00:20:41:16
Luna
And that's and that's something that like is probably like like from my early teen years, like a pattern that I seem to attract. But it's also because I'm like very comfortable being like a solo poly person and pretty autonomous. And so that I'm not like asking for more attention. And so then it's like, I think it creates a funny, funny loop.
00:20:41:18 - 00:20:58:01
Luna
So it's it's just interesting to notice all the layers because and to be clear, I think Nonhierarchical stuff is a great idea. And, you know, I think it's also just important for us to look at our actual behaviors and the way that we're communicating and what it really means, you know? Yeah.
00:20:58:03 - 00:21:23:13
Leah
Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, I can never I'm definitely I want to promise everybody I'm dating that I will treat them like a person and treat them with kindness and want to hear about their feelings. And I hope they want to hear about mine. Yeah. I think so much of the reaction against hierarchical stuff comes from, yeah, like you said, people who use it as an excuse to be dismissive to your feelings or something that.
00:21:23:13 - 00:21:28:03
Luna
Like to be like, that's not my problem. I don't have to worry about that. I'm not here to serve you.
00:21:28:03 - 00:21:51:17
Leah
Yeah, yeah. Something I actually asked him because I realized I was like, oh, I want to talk about this. And I'm curious what your answer would be. And I don't know if this is like a think nobody should ever say this. And when they're dating, I was like, I, I was like, I want to know why it's a bad reason to or what's a bad reason to date you or what's bad about you in a relationship.
00:21:51:17 - 00:22:25:03
Leah
And I'm just like, curious. Yeah. What your answer to that is. And he did give me a great answer and it was just about like, yeah, not being good at texting or something like that. And, I love that. Yeah. But I was like, oh, I know mine is not. I need a lot of reassurance. I just like, even with my husband of eight years and having been with him for 11 years, like my whole adult life, basically I just whatever last interaction we had, I there's a part of me that's always like, is this our relationship forever?
00:22:25:03 - 00:22:37:21
Leah
And so not even negative happens, just not effusively positive. There's part of me that's always wondering, like, oh, is this the and this is over? And like, I know my cousin. Yeah. That's me. That's an issue in.
00:22:37:21 - 00:22:56:04
Luna
The story our brains make because of whatever formative experiences we've had that have made us feel uncertain. And I know that when I am with someone who is a good fit for me, I'm allowed to ask for that reassurance or sometimes just to make sure we're on the same page. Sometimes for me, it's even in a positive experience.
00:22:56:04 - 00:23:12:13
Luna
I'm like, that was so hot. Oh wait, did you like it too? Did you? Were you as into it? I think I'm more into it, you know. And then. And then sometimes I just need to hear, like it is okay if I'm into it more, or it is okay if I this or that, the fullness of my feelings and my emotions.
00:23:12:15 - 00:23:31:10
Luna
And I think that's also just because I have like overwhelmed so many people. So that they've disappeared. And so then, you know, when I'm with someone who, like kind of hang, I also want to check in to be like, hey, do we need to adjust the way that we are sharing attention, emotion, conversation? Like, is this okay? Yeah.
00:23:31:11 - 00:23:53:22
Luna
And I think, I think, I think I have experienced narratives in the white guys about like quote unquote being a needy woman and so have reacted against that and then kind of judged myself every time that I'm like, actually, this a regular relationship check in. And if someone doesn't want to have this conversation now, I'm like, get out.
00:23:54:00 - 00:24:20:04
Leah
Yeah, great. Great. I'm so happy you're feeling that way. Because, yeah, it's a new era. Yeah, I struggle a lot with that too. And in addition to like, yeah, all of those romantic narratives and definitely experiencing like, guys who didn't want to be romantically involved and me being like, okay, okay, I want to, I want to be the cool, unattached woman.
00:24:20:04 - 00:24:55:14
Leah
I want to be the one who can handle the way guys like to do it. And, and then really only ever getting into a relationship with my husband, like, he's essentially the only emotional relationship I've ever had. So before then, it was like, oh, no, I can do hook up culture. That's like, what guys want, right? And what I, I thought that playing into that would lead to stumbling into a relationship, because we talked about like what would happen and then.
00:24:55:15 - 00:25:09:19
Leah
Yeah, kind of did it. Yeah. So since since then is like the last time I was like dating where emotions were explicitly on the table,
00:25:09:21 - 00:25:26:01
Luna
Which is confusing sometimes because even when, like when a hookup bro has been, like, emotionally unavailable, just just hookup suddenly, sometimes right after they come, they're then telling me all these deeply emotional things.
00:25:26:03 - 00:25:26:12
Leah
Yeah.
00:25:26:13 - 00:25:52:09
Luna
And then I discover it just goes one direction, you know? And that. And that was past me, right? Like, and now I put myself in positions where, if that's happening, I am definitely being taken care of in concrete ways. So I have space for them. And so then it feels worth it because I'm like, oh, okay. Well, like if you're here to talk to your like secret podcast or boo about like your feelings because you feel like you can't share them with your wife, like at least that's now happening in container where I feel valued, you know?
00:25:52:12 - 00:25:53:13
Luna
Yeah, I.
00:25:53:15 - 00:25:56:10
Leah
Know what to look for. You know what to like because.
00:25:56:13 - 00:26:05:12
Luna
Because that one way street does not work. Wait, so. But this new connection for you feeling the buds of emotions. And how does that. By the experience of sex.
00:26:05:14 - 00:26:33:12
Leah
Yeah. That is a great question. Oh, and I wanted to say, because this is a part of this connection to, I just wanted to say that I heard, it was like some pop psychology headline. And so it's like I, it was also telling me what I wanted to hear. So I haven't investigated it really thoroughly, but I've heard that, giving an anxious partner who wants reassurance, giving them reassurance is a healthy thing.
00:26:33:12 - 00:26:41:01
Leah
It's not like, oh, indulging that will make it worse. It's like indulging that can make it better because you are dealing with some sort of past trauma.
00:26:41:03 - 00:26:59:08
Luna
And if it's if it's real, like because you if, if you're like, no, no, no babe, it's okay. And then you actually feel opposite and are going to go, yeah, that's very that's actually retro. Yeah. I mean it's the same. And a lot of people do fall into that same pattern. But it's but it's actually it's a really it's the path to secure attachment.
00:26:59:08 - 00:27:08:17
Luna
If we can just in a relationship ask for and receive the reassurance we need, especially in a, in a deep true love connection. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:27:08:17 - 00:27:23:00
Leah
Well because that is a thing for me is not trusting it. I mean that's why I want more reassurance or like it's like, okay, you told me that. But now we've had like a more neutral experience or a negative experience since. So I just want reassurance about the thing you said a while ago and and I would you.
00:27:23:05 - 00:27:37:04
Luna
I have learned that also both parts. Right. So like if the only way that you ever feel reassurance or any good feelings comes from outside of us, like if I if I can only it's, it's an unforgivable gaping void.
00:27:37:08 - 00:27:42:23
Leah
It is, it is very much like I know it's, a thing in me that I am also working on.
00:27:42:23 - 00:27:57:13
Luna
Well, and that's just it. Like, if it comes with the practice of like, hey, I'm continuing to build trust with myself. And in this connection that I think is, for me, the healthiest balance. And it's, it's that's where I allow myself to find the greater depths. Yeah.
00:27:57:15 - 00:28:13:22
Leah
That's a great point. Yeah. No, when it is, I think I've been you know, I've been going to the same therapist for like nine years or something like that now. And so it's like we've done a lot of work with ourselves. And now it is just like, oh, okay, I'm feeling this in a romantic setting for the first time in a while.
00:28:13:22 - 00:28:32:10
Leah
And, yeah, I should get back to your question. And I also, I'm feeling like an anxiety that, again, this is so new. I'm here, like, talking about it and it's like, oh, man. I mean, it could go away tomorrow, but like, also that's the anxiety I'm always dealing with is like it could go away tomorrow.
00:28:32:13 - 00:28:34:12
Luna
The whole human existence too.
00:28:34:14 - 00:28:43:13
Leah
Yeah. Yeah. That's true. That's that's the way he responded. It's one that I, he was like, oh, you know, we could all die like that.
00:28:43:17 - 00:28:55:23
Luna
Yeah. I'm like, well, what if this is our last day? You know, people are like, well, you're living this like uncertain life. And I'm like, we all are. We're just various levels of aware of how uncertain we are, you know, like.
00:28:56:00 - 00:29:13:10
Leah
Yeah. Do do what you think will make you happier. Yeah. And your question was how that kind of, like, anxiety and reassurance and stuff is manifesting in this new relationship and, how the romantic stuff is affecting our sex life.
00:29:13:12 - 00:29:15:06
Luna
I'm always curious about that.
00:29:15:08 - 00:29:48:13
Leah
Okay. Yeah. Basically, it is like, I just was honest that I was like that, and I'm trying to temper my need for reassurance. I'm practicing. Yeah. As well as, asking for it when it feels like I need it. And he's giving it to me every time and still hasn't gone away. I think easy Come, Easy Go has been a real sort of mantra of dating for me, where I was suspicious by just meeting somebody who I really liked, who seemed to like me a lot, too.
00:29:48:13 - 00:29:49:19
Leah
00:29:49:21 - 00:30:08:18
Luna
You know, funny humans are so funny. I totally relate to that. And I like, I have to, like, have my monitor. It's like this moment right now is all I need to think about. Like, I don't need to, you know, like, I try to just continue to ground myself in the present reality. And then if I have a big mind story that I need to talk about, great.
00:30:08:18 - 00:30:14:23
Luna
But I'm like, let's just take one little step at a time like that. So that's my easy come, easy go. I totally feel that. Dude.
00:30:15:01 - 00:30:19:23
Leah
I really like that. I also like calling them mind stories. Yeah.
00:30:19:23 - 00:30:29:09
Luna
Just, because there's a very creative. You're very creative writer. You can make some really wild, interesting creative stories in our heads.
00:30:29:11 - 00:30:45:15
Leah
Yeah. For me, it always just is like, okay, am I the thing that's making me feel bad? Is it something that has happened? Or is it like an idea that I. Yeah. And and usually that can help me come back? I do have an answer for how it's affecting our sex life. I mean, it is for the most part making it way better.
00:30:45:15 - 00:31:19:11
Leah
Like, I think it is so much more intense and fun and joyful and healing to to really like it, like someone and feel like they like me too. For all the, you know, emotional personality reasons and that we really, like, get along and value this relationship structure and, yeah, it just is, awesome. I have felt, in moments where I'm more anxious about, yeah, the emotional part of it and, wondering if it'll go away.
00:31:19:13 - 00:31:44:07
Leah
Then we have a really intense sexual connection. And that makes me insecure that that that all the emotional stuff is fake, but it's the sex that's real. So he's just, like, lying to me about the emotional stuff for sex. So then, Yeah, I think that's how that's how it's been affecting it negatively. Where it's like, I know this is just my anxiety.
00:31:44:07 - 00:32:27:22
Leah
That is one of those where it's like, okay, I'm anxious about something that hasn't happened. I've gotten so much reassurance that, that it is an emotional thing, but also, you know, not knowing any somebody at this point super. Well, it's like it still could go any direction, you know, a couple months in, but all of the concrete things that have happened, the action and the, the time we've made for each other and, the words that I've been told all of that has pointed towards, like, this is, healthy and honest.
00:32:28:00 - 00:32:55:12
Leah
Yeah. But yeah, that, oof, I don't I didn't, I didn't come planning to talk about this, but, sort of a negative habit that I've struggled with throughout my adult life that is, really dated to the whole, like, wanting to be the, the cool, unattached girl who can, like, be a good sex partner and not have emotional needs.
00:32:55:14 - 00:33:32:02
Leah
Kind of like a habit that's left over is, if we are on our way to having sex. And this isn't just with this partner, again, it's like a pattern I've noticed in me. If we're on our way to having sex or if we are having sex and I'm having emotional issues come up that kind of pull me out of it, I would rather just, like, finish sex quickly than stop, you know, like just the idea of, like, announcing that I'm having, that I'm, like, in distress or feeling anxiety or feeling detached and kind of like dissociating from my body.
00:33:32:02 - 00:34:02:18
Leah
I would rather just be like, okay, is there anything I can do to help them be done with that instead of, I suppose, stopping? And so I know it just. Yeah, it feels horrible. It is not good for either of us. Usually, whoever I'm with will like, notice, and either them pushing through it because they don't want to be rude or they don't want to ask.
00:34:02:18 - 00:34:22:00
Leah
Just makes me mad and hurts me because I'm like, do they not see, like, heart? Or they're just like, having sex with me as I'm feeling so anxious and just wanting this to be over, and they're not saying anything, or they're being selfish or they're not noticing. Even though I think that that's probably not typically the case.
00:34:22:01 - 00:34:33:13
Leah
And I'm just kind of trying to push through it for it to be over and feeling horrible either way. And, yeah, yeah. Sorry. That was a lot to say. I.
00:34:33:15 - 00:34:44:01
Luna
I appreciate you sharing that. And you can also feel into your nervous system feel into if it feels comfortable to share that publicly. But I think that's an extremely common experience.
00:34:44:01 - 00:34:48:18
Leah
And why do you want to talk about it. And, it's.
00:34:48:18 - 00:35:07:10
Luna
There's also it's like in a moment where I don't exactly know what I need. It's hard for me to ask for it. And in a moment where I may be overwhelmed and there's no clear social script in the general public, certainly not in the realm of casual dating, where we're not supposed to care about each other, because that's not cool.
00:35:07:12 - 00:35:32:05
Luna
I have feelings, but it's like, truly, you know, I hear from so many dudes that have so many feelings that they feel like they can't show or share. And now I'm starting to hear it increasingly from them. Types do, and I'm like, okay. And what I'm hearing in the business world, you know, and in, in the realms in which I work is that we are in the midst of an epidemic of loneliness.
00:35:32:07 - 00:35:55:07
Luna
And that is what's driving the podcast industry. And that starts to put into perspective some of the interesting messages I get and sort of this, like back and forth between people who want my like, friendship, but actually they're looking for some sort of like container for emotions. And it's and we don't have a script for it. And so it's like, yeah, I've finally gotten to the point where I can be like, hold on.
00:35:55:09 - 00:36:13:12
Luna
You know, however, I, I also know that I'm a really unique individual in terms of like knowing my feelings right now, I have kind of a I have the opposite problem with most people. Like we're talking at the beginning of this part about how that kind of like I call it pretzel behavior of like, oh, they said something.
00:36:13:12 - 00:36:33:16
Luna
I'm going to give them the response that I know they want. I don't have that skill. I'm like, well, that doesn't make sense. Because if this and this, then why don't you know? And so that same quality that can be really abrasive for people is also a gift for me in the in the bedroom realm, because I could be like, wait, I have a late cramp or like I need water or like I feel funny.
00:36:33:17 - 00:36:37:12
Luna
You know, sometimes all I can be is like, hold on, I feel funny, you know?
00:36:37:14 - 00:36:49:09
Leah
Oh no, not good. I want everybody listening to hear that script and just be like, oh, that is something where I feel funny. It can be something, or I don't feel good or like I need a second.
00:36:49:09 - 00:37:09:12
Luna
I need something and I don't know what it is, you know? And and also like, if I'm with a penis owning partner, they love to solve problems. They can get scared of emotions. But also, I've noticed that if I'm not scared of my emotion and often I'm too fast in my own experience to even like my fear happens later, right?
00:37:09:12 - 00:37:25:15
Luna
Like I'll drop in with a person, I'll be like, whatever emotions are present, and then I'll be like, wow, wow. Well. And then I'm like, oh shit, I'm making eye contact. Is it too much? You know? But that doesn't happen until, like, we're done fucking and then I get enough space to learn that actually, it was fine and it doesn't really matter.
00:37:25:15 - 00:38:00:08
Luna
And that's a whole different story to unpack. But I don't necessarily have to like real time anxiety or if something comes up, I have, I'm also kind of, if I get into a submissive nonverbal mode sometimes I'll just get like like I'll just get whimpering, like, not like like. You know, because I can't always words. And so that's where, you know, but also I'm not afraid to like, break a sexual connection because I'm like, well, if they can't hang with all of me, then, like.
00:38:00:10 - 00:38:21:06
Luna
What are we doing here? You know, and, and a lot of people can't hang with me. Here is what I realized. And it feels really yucky to discover that in real time and make up blocks and have them disappear because of it. But I've also started to really appreciate the amount of time that I've made people disappear by reacting honestly, you know?
00:38:21:06 - 00:38:23:19
Luna
And it's really uncomfortable.
00:38:23:21 - 00:38:39:02
Leah
You know? Yeah, learning to say this isn't working for me is something that just sexually is something that I've spent years getting comfortable with. And still I will do it now.
00:38:39:02 - 00:38:49:20
Luna
But you're saying you're just practice thing, and we don't have to be kind, but it's like, faced with two options of discomfort. Maybe you can practice the louder one.
00:38:49:22 - 00:39:17:08
Leah
Know you're like, just having a sex life where I'm not saying that was worse than dealing with the discomfort of learning to say it. And again, it's still in process, but yeah, this, the thing I just described with like, feeling upset or super anxious and out of it, but just wanting it, like to help them finish and then over and then it's just bad for everybody is that's a separate thing.
00:39:17:08 - 00:39:38:09
Leah
But I think comes from the same issue. And like you said, it's not wanting to speak up if I don't have a solution to and naturally, without the negative emotions, I never wanted to be like, oh, okay, I don't know what direction to give. So I can't say anything. I had to learn like, no, no, no, it still is helpful.
00:39:38:09 - 00:39:52:06
Leah
And and for some people, they would rather hear, this isn't quite working and then enjoy trying stuff themselves rather than having a clear direction, which I didn't realize. I thought it was like, no bother me until, you know.
00:39:52:06 - 00:40:15:01
Luna
Yeah, yeah, I mean, to to to your own personal defense, I, especially in the past years, have read so many like sex educator or writer or thought leader, people who are like, well, women need to know what they want. You are responsible for knowing your own body. And if you can't communicate it to a partner, how could you possibly expect to know?
00:40:15:02 - 00:40:37:02
Luna
And I'm like, that's true. I'm pretty robotic in a lot of ways, but I am a human being and my body, mind and like energy is different every single day and is also highly responsive to the partner that I'm with. So how fucking dare you shame me and try to make me feel like I should know what I like?
00:40:37:07 - 00:40:59:20
Luna
The last thing I need as a sexual female is another should that I'm responsible because sorry, but this is a partnership. Like any sort of relationship is a partnership. And so it's like I sometimes need and and also I enjoy it or what am I into the process of being explored with a partner who's present, who doesn't want to just boop boop, beep beep dun explode.
00:40:59:20 - 00:41:16:20
Luna
But you know, and if they want that, then just jerk off onto my belly and I'll watch and that'll be fun. But like, if you really don't care about my pleasure, don't don't go asking for like, a good boy or good girl points so that you can feel successful if you're not actually willing to, like, connect with me, to discover with me what is happening today.
00:41:16:22 - 00:41:37:16
Luna
And that's what I've sort of like, really. And also like other, I finally started realizing other people are very scared and that I scare a lot of people. And so giving them clearer, you know, as I am becoming a reluctant leader or a decreasingly reluctant leader, I'm able to be like, well, could you just pet me for a little while?
00:41:37:16 - 00:41:53:09
Luna
Well, could you just do this? Well, I want to feel this. Well, what about this? Well, don't you want to explore? You know. Okay. You're scared. How about I just touch you for a while, you know, and then that inevitably calms them down. But it's like, you know, sometimes I just need a cuddle, and sometimes I'm like, I'm done.
00:41:53:09 - 00:42:16:23
Luna
Let's go eat a snack. Like, how about how about you take the, you know, like, if the energy is really off, I am now okay. Especially if they're I've been in some situations where I've had some plop vibes lately and I would just plop like, that person is a plop like they're just there. They fell in their plop and they're not doing anything.
00:42:16:23 - 00:42:42:05
Luna
Not a swimmer. They're not there. They're more of a thinker than a floater, you know? And they're waiting for me to kind of like, pull them up and do all of this. And so when I realize I'm going to plop vibe, I'll go one of two ways, right? Like I'm like, well, if I like if I still want to have a physical connection, I may choose to do them work of like, now they're my toy and I will explore them, you know?
00:42:42:05 - 00:43:05:02
Luna
And all too often they're happy to just, like, lay back and do nothing. Or I'll be like, well, I'm fully in charge of this situation. I got to make it worthwhile for me. So I'll be like, my tummy hurts or whatever, you know, like, getting a headache, you know, like, and I, I'm if I'm at the point in a connection where in order to preserve their ego, I feel the need to create a story that's only mildly true, right?
00:43:05:02 - 00:43:28:16
Luna
Because a headache doesn't have to be a physical pain. A headache can be. I've noticed this thought pattern inside of me, and I'm now, like, heading in the direction of turn off. That, to me is a real headache, not a lie. You know, my tummy ache is like, I'm so turned on and I'm disappointed that you are a lazy lover who's not present with me or whatever, you know, and those are those are judgmental forms of those statements.
00:43:28:18 - 00:44:03:13
Luna
But that's when I'm increasingly, eager to break the energy, because I also have just become increasingly aware that to continue to go along with it has created my own participation in my personal patterns of being devalued, which I'm also learning is a kink of mine. However, it is no longer hot unless it's explicitly negotiated. So it's like, yeah, I have started to clock that, you know, and it and most of the time I will choose the physical connection because I'm such a touch slut, you know.
00:44:03:15 - 00:44:19:23
Luna
And if I have gone to the lengths to like, make sure that someone is safe enough to be in my physical vicinity, then I usually want to just, like, have some touches and I'll. And then I'll just, like, write it off and be like, well, I'm done with that, you know? And and those people are typically surprised.
00:44:19:23 - 00:44:29:16
Luna
So we're just exploring, dude. But it sounds like you're really bringing a lot of awareness to your experience. And that's beautiful. You're practicing.
00:44:29:18 - 00:44:39:16
Leah
Thank you. Yeah, I'm doing my best. And, you know, talking things over with my therapist all the time, which is all we.
00:44:39:16 - 00:44:47:09
Luna
Can do, right? Like, you're learning, you're growing, and we're we're just doing our best. You know? Even my best doesn't always feel like what I wish it were.
00:44:47:11 - 00:45:22:02
Leah
I know, I know, I think this I don't know if this feels like a jump in thought, but to me it's related. But is. So much of being non-monogamous has been just learning to, learning to navigate jealousy and so often not just announcing that I have it, or noticing that I'm having it and noticing that I'm feeling that way, and then deciding how I want to deal with that, differently than I did when we were monogamous.
00:45:22:04 - 00:45:23:12
Luna
That's big.
00:45:23:14 - 00:45:47:07
Leah
Yeah, yeah. And it's like something that it seems like I'll be feeling forever. I think, I don't know, I was going to say I think I'm particularly jealous, but also since I've been consciously announcing it all the time. Maybe I just hear myself say that I'm jealous more often than other people, but it's like, I'll be like, on a first date with somebody.
00:45:47:07 - 00:46:12:09
Leah
And, if they are talking about another partner, I know I will. Typically, if I'm into them, feel a twinge of jealousy and be like, oh, but I hope you know that you're, thinking of me as better than that person, or that you still like me more or something. And, I just know that, like, feeling that and acting on it, or, like, what I do with that feeling, are different things.
00:46:12:11 - 00:46:47:01
Leah
Yeah. I also and again, I don't know if I'm, like, jumping around too much, but something that I always want to say when I talk about jealousy, especially since we've talked so much about just like being socialized as, like a femme person and a woman is like, I think in non-monogamy, when we talk about, dealing with our jealousy differently, I always want to include a little asterisk of like, women specifically are so used to putting their discomfort aside for other people and for other partners.
00:46:47:03 - 00:47:14:12
Leah
And so where you're, like, pushing through discomfort and pushing through it and uncomfortable feeling, I think a lot of times that can be how women are manipulated into doing things that aren't good for them or like that are self-destructive or whatever, you know, or like a selfish partner might be like, ignore your jealousy when it's like, yeah, that's not we're still trying to pay attention to it.
00:47:14:12 - 00:47:39:09
Leah
It just is like I decided the the benefits of the things I can do when I grapple with jealousy in this way are worth it to me. And so that's why I want to push through it. But if it's like, if it's, a dude, usually if it's a dude pushing you through and devaluing your, your experience and telling you that your feelings are wrong, it's like, that's not good or healthy.
00:47:39:09 - 00:47:55:07
Leah
And that's what I want to aim for. Yeah, but, but yeah, I think in, in the practice of noticing your feelings and communicating and whatever jealousy has, has continued to be a big part of all of this for me.
00:47:55:09 - 00:48:21:18
Luna
That's an astute observation. You know, I think I do know a fair number of people who have stumbled into situations that they didn't really want because they wanted the attention that came with it, or they wanted the feeling of being maybe not even the best, but feeling uniquely special to another person. And I also, you know, it's it's one of those things that, I really just want to honor.
00:48:21:18 - 00:48:48:18
Luna
What I hear is your willingness to be in discomfort, which is not really taught to our current like modern American society, like we are taught so much that we should be able to get out of our uncomfortable feelings and that we should be able to just solve them, or bypass them, or stuff them away, or ignore them, or we're just if we're strong enough, it's like, I hear that you're allowing yourself space to be a human and to process stuff and to notice it as it comes up and to be like, that's interesting.
00:48:48:20 - 00:48:57:11
Luna
I'm okay. Next step, you know, and may we all get to the point where if we're not okay, we can be like, my tummy hurts, you know, or whatever.
00:48:57:13 - 00:49:19:06
Leah
Yeah, yeah. No it is. Yeah. Trying to decide is this feeling telling me that anything. Is that like does something need to change? Am I being treated badly? Is there something bad about this situation? And if not, if it just is like it's coming up because I have chosen I want to date people who date other people. Yeah.
00:49:19:06 - 00:49:44:11
Leah
And usually to the carrot for me. And the thing I compare it against is like, well, do I want to be able to talk about my other partners or whatever the jealousy trigger was? It's usually like, but I want to be someone who can share about this, and I want to be somebody who can date other people. So that is the the sort of reward that pulls me through, deciding I want to be a partner who can, like, allow that to happen for my partners as well.
00:49:44:16 - 00:49:57:07
Leah
Because if I could be somebody who was like, I want to be able to talk about my partners, but that's not something I can tolerate from other people. Like I have the option of saying that I'm not comfortable with that. And I think there are a lot of people who would be fine with it.
00:49:57:07 - 00:50:14:09
Luna
There are a lot of people who do that, like in in their poly practices or like, I just don't really want to know the details. And for me, I always want to choose connections where I really get to know the person and I want to know the fullness of it. And for me, I don't want to get surprised.
00:50:14:13 - 00:50:40:22
Luna
And so for me, having more information about where they're accurately feeling helps me feel actually more secure. Now that said, I also have the benefit or if we want to call it a benefit of, I think my degradation kink and my like rejection kink here work in my favor. Right? So, I, I consciously am able to clock I'm like, yes, of course he's going to go home to his wife.
00:50:40:22 - 00:51:01:21
Luna
Well, it's only a matter of time before I'm discarded again. Will be delicious and terrible. I'll cry about it, you know. And it's also but it's but it's that like, I'm now able to see it as it's happening and be like, yeah, that's so cute. Because they're literally telling you how valuable you are and that you are adding to their primary relationship.
00:51:01:23 - 00:51:21:03
Luna
But me, but me being able to like, notice that existentially kinky dialog in my head and and just be like, oh, it's cute. She's finding some deliciousness in that degradation. Like, you know. Well, and I've been told one of my partners about it recently is like, that's not what I want for like, we didn't need that. And I'm like, and I'm like, right?
00:51:21:03 - 00:51:48:08
Luna
But it's part of my landscape. And also it helps me be comfortable remembering that all of this could end. Any relationship can end. Full world could end tomorrow, no matter how secure I think I am. I'm still just a little human in this meat sack container. Right. And so then when the scary things come up, I have really been thinking about life a lot as a roller coaster.
00:51:48:08 - 00:52:07:19
Luna
I choose to ride. And so I'm like, it's thrilling. Like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And it's actually that willingness to feel the pain instead of like, past me was like, no, no, no, no, I can't possibly feel, you know? And so I would try to build these walls to avoid the feeling of pain. And I'm like, well, pain is inevitable because of how the human dopamine system works.
00:52:07:19 - 00:52:27:13
Luna
Like disappointment is inevitable. What if I create story frames that allow me to, like, really appreciate every step of the experience and allow me the closeness with each person I'm choosing to engage in to the depth that is available in that relationship, then able to be more in honest connection with my own self, my own desires, my own needs.
00:52:27:15 - 00:52:46:12
Luna
And that has led me to a place where, like, oh, I like you so much. I'm so attracted to this by your behavior clearly isn't working. You don't like me enough. I desire you so much more. That's a comfortable. I'm working to change that pattern in my life. Like I really want to have this. And then the entire relationship changes.
00:52:46:14 - 00:53:03:01
Luna
The way people show up for me changes because I'm willing to just be like, well, it's okay that I'm not your number one bay, but it's like we're so far disparate that I'm like, I'm out. And then they're like, no, no, no, what do you need? You know? And so I'm like, oh, and that's where I get into my own relationship patterns.
00:53:03:01 - 00:53:21:18
Luna
And I'm like, oh my God. She doesn't want too much attention because I feel clogged. So, you know, it's we're all just doing our best. And I really hear what you want. And I know I've made so much of this conversation about me, but I just am like, reflecting because I feel like I'm I'm an opposite in a lot, or like I'm the same, but for different reasons, I guess.
00:53:21:18 - 00:53:48:03
Leah
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll end it. I wanted to say to like to you and for everybody listening that like you've done enough work to know, to like the different options available to you when you have those feelings, both like embracing them, the narrative you have and the kink you have where you can enjoy part of that, letting them know it isn't, a type of dynamic that is working for you.
00:53:48:03 - 00:53:53:06
Leah
And you can address it that way, or like some other form of self-care. So it's like, and I.
00:53:53:12 - 00:54:19:05
Luna
Know I never know the answers. I'm just willing now to experiment because I am goes back to what we were saying earlier. I am developing a larger framework of trust in myself and in connection, and I trust that the more that I show up for myself, the other stuff will fall into place. And it's scary. And I don't know the answer in in the like micro day to day way, I'm like, I don't fucking know what's happening most of the time.
00:54:19:05 - 00:54:39:08
Luna
And I'm scared. Like my I've never in my adult life had a stable living. I just turned 35 and I'm like, oh my God, you're so artistic. But I've never been a starving artist. I've just run out of money once, you know? And so it's like, I know. So I have trauma. I don't want to do that again, and I don't want to work five passion jobs, you know.
00:54:39:08 - 00:54:55:12
Luna
So so I'm making new adult choices in my life. And I'm willing to just kind of like, see what today is. And that's also really allowed the people in my life to show up for me in ways that I was too scared to ask for because I didn't, or I didn't know how to ask because I didn't know I needed to ask for something.
00:54:55:14 - 00:54:58:12
Luna
Yeah, and we don't know till we know.
00:54:58:14 - 00:55:27:10
Leah
Yeah, I didn't know that a big part of being this way is conflict avoidance. And that's like, did I put on it? Yeah. For myself I too. Well, yeah. Where until me and my husband were in couples therapy because of, like, opening up and stuff, I didn't know what I didn't know about myself. Yeah. And so that trying to anticipate a reaction and only reach out if I think I'm going to get what I need, and I know exactly what I need like that.
00:55:27:15 - 00:55:28:13
Luna
Oh my God.
00:55:28:15 - 00:55:29:11
Leah
2.8.
00:55:29:13 - 00:55:48:01
Luna
That's like been a big piece of my like last week and a half because I had a partner be like, you need to ask me for what you want or I can't give it to you. And I like to win points. So come on. And I was like, that puts the entire burden of vulnerability on me. And I don't know what's available here.
00:55:48:01 - 00:56:06:17
Luna
So let's have a conversation. But that's like probably the most open and honest like connection I've had with a person who I know can hold all parts of me. And we may not continue to see each other or it will shift and morph, but it's like at least we're both kind of being like, is this still good for us?
00:56:06:19 - 00:56:11:14
Luna
And that's a new level of dialog where I'm like, okay,
00:56:11:16 - 00:56:15:08
Leah
Yeah, yeah, you're at least getting to a new level, even though it's not like, oh.
00:56:15:09 - 00:56:18:15
Luna
It's the next level of the spiral. It's all I can ask for.
00:56:18:17 - 00:56:25:10
Leah
Yeah. No, I too have had partners angrily say that exactly to me.
00:56:25:12 - 00:56:32:06
Luna
Well, yeah. It doesn't make it easier to ask for me. Yes, but it goes back to what you're saying about the trust building.
00:56:32:08 - 00:56:41:03
Leah
Yeah, yeah. And the way that it is putting the burden on you is like, important to acknowledge, but also the way that it's unfair to them is important to acknowledge. So it's just.
00:56:41:03 - 00:57:06:12
Luna
Yes. Well it's both and it's, and it's, it like that interaction was indicative to me of like, oh, we just haven't been having a conversation because our origin story was in this tight little hot, kinky container. And we've been great play friends, and I've been doing the thing where I'm like, I like you so much. I know I like you more than you're available, but also me sharing that allowed them to be like, I really like you.
00:57:06:14 - 00:57:25:01
Luna
This needs to work though. Like. And also, if it doesn't work, that's okay. And I'm like, yeah, it is okay. You know, and also and I'm like, but I crave you so it doesn't feel okay, you know. Yeah. So it's it's all of that. Okay. I know we have to wrap up soon, so I'd like to hear like, what's on your next horizon.
00:57:25:01 - 00:57:31:18
Luna
What are you most excited about? What are you thinking about? What are you Luling on. Like what's and or what's turning you on right now?
00:57:31:19 - 00:58:09:02
Leah
Haha. I will say in a way that I am far too ahead of myself and separate from my husband currently is I mean, I've done a lot about, thinking about, how I do want to have a kid. That was like a question for a while. I was like, certain my whole life. And then in the past couple of years, I think with the world and stability, my career and stability and enjoying the freedom of dating other people for the first time, I was like, oh my God, this is the first time in my life where I don't know if having kids is for me.
00:58:09:02 - 00:58:28:18
Leah
And that is distressing. And I was so scared to tell my husband and I did and in therapy. And it turned out to be kind and like just a friend that he how much he loves me and like, wants a life with me. And that is not the reaction I expected. I thought that would, you know, could be a relationship ending revelation.
00:58:28:18 - 00:58:51:00
Leah
So, it's been a huge thank you. I didn't know if I had talked about that. The one of the last couple times I came on, but I just, I thought that was such an incredible gift of, like, all of the work we've been doing because of being open, me being able to be honest with him about that and then hearing that reaction that he, that the priority was a life with me.
00:58:51:00 - 00:59:18:05
Leah
It's just like, that's not how I expected that to go. And like, felt like such a huge gift of that moment for our relationship. But so that was a couple years ago now, and it's been still a lot of, yeah, just uncertainty and back and forth on my part. And I think it will continue. Maybe to feel that way, but I've been, I don't know, maybe, six months ish, very solidly on, like, of course we are going to have a kid.
00:59:18:05 - 00:59:44:18
Leah
I really want him to be a dad more than I want to have a kid. I'm so grateful. Anyway, that it's relevant to this podcast is because I, like neither of us, have a ton of family who would like be geographically here or be able to help, which is a huge part of it. And my fantasy is having some sort of like poly community where we're like raising kids together.
00:59:44:18 - 01:00:05:11
Leah
And that could be, you know, something we do, you know, trading off childcare with friends and stuff like that. Just like, yeah, my fantasy lately has been like with other poly couples, just because I love that kind of like love and those kind of relationships being involved sounds super fun. Oh, I love that shit. Yeah.
01:00:05:12 - 01:00:26:14
Luna
Yeah, I have no, but I have a fantasy of being like the auntie in her own little cabin on that poly compound, because I. Because it was it. When I was 27, I did my South America walkabout and shaved my head. I was like, man, I'm giving myself space to not have kids. I'm not on that path. I'm in too much self judgment about where I am because of the resources issue.
01:00:26:16 - 01:00:47:21
Luna
And I finally was like, oh, it's truly not my priority. And so giving myself that space these past several years, I'm like, I love kids, I now have a great nephew. I have a great, very goddaughter. I'm about to have another nephew. I just found out, you know, and so so I kind of think you and I've sort of, like, come to the conclusion that, like, this world is so full of kids who don't get nurtured.
01:00:47:21 - 01:01:07:01
Luna
I'm a nurturer. I'm not I'm not unclear about that. But, like, does it need to be my own flesh and blood when I also do have a lot of fear around, like my physical container and like making sure I do everything right? I need to put that level of pressure on myself, I don't know. And for me, not having a partner like it's so hot to me that you're like, I want to see him be a dad.
01:01:07:01 - 01:01:09:06
Luna
And now that you say that, I'm like, I do to.
01:01:09:06 - 01:01:09:21
Leah
Look.
01:01:09:23 - 01:01:11:13
Luna
Like, you know, like.
01:01:11:15 - 01:01:14:03
Leah
Oh, that's just the moment I'm. Yeah, you know.
01:01:14:03 - 01:01:32:19
Luna
It's so it's so true. And so it's like I hear all of that. And again, I just want to like, honor how fucking rad it is that you're in these big question moments of, like, discomfort and unknown and just continue to like, co-create a life with a person you love in those ways.
01:01:32:21 - 01:01:54:15
Leah
Thank you so much. Knowing I'm I'm like tearing up. Okay. Yeah. No. And Jesus, he's he's like no. Like we would need to do the kind of thing I'm talking about. He's like, we essentially would need to meet other people. We feel mutually good enough about to like, marry again. So it's totally like, that is just so unlikely.
01:01:54:15 - 01:01:56:19
Leah
But I, I don't know, it's something I've fantasies.
01:01:56:22 - 01:02:13:07
Luna
I believe in big dreams. And where there's a will, there's a way, and there has to be the underlying belief of possibility, you know, and it doesn't have to mean that you're going to, like, force people who are not a good fit into that. But like just being open to it is the first step.
01:02:13:09 - 01:02:22:07
Leah
So and just knowing, like I'm going to enjoy the fantasy and the like, I know it's me getting ahead of myself and having a mind that likes to tell those stories. Like, you're so.
01:02:22:07 - 01:02:24:17
Luna
Creative that you're so creative.
01:02:24:19 - 01:02:26:17
Leah
Truly creative. We're so.
01:02:26:17 - 01:02:34:14
Luna
Creative. We're excellent stories. Anytime someone's like, I'm not creative, I'm like, that's a creative story you're telling yourself.
01:02:34:16 - 01:02:35:22
Leah
Yeah. Yeah.
01:02:36:00 - 01:02:37:13
Luna
Very annoying.
01:02:37:15 - 01:03:03:15
Leah
No, no. It's true. But yeah. And so it's like, I hope, I hope I do as far as, like next on the horizon. And I hope I do continue to be, with this person and, a habit I'm also aware of. And I know I'm currently doing like this weekend with all of it where it's like, I know if I'm anxious and uncomfortable, I do try to stuff it with more people, like dating more.
01:03:03:17 - 01:03:22:08
Leah
And, because I think for so long when it's like, oh, if I'm not getting what I need from or what I want from a relationship, it's like, just be detached. You don't expect them, try to get it somewhere else. And so it's like there's a defense mechanism in there for sure. There's conflict of things in there for sure.
01:03:22:10 - 01:03:43:15
Leah
There's mistrust, there's old wounds and whatever. And I just know and also an unwillingness to sit in discomfort, which is like what I talk to my therapist about all the time. So it's like, I know I'm doing that. I know I'm in a period of doing that particularly strongly the last few days. And so I'm working on that.
01:03:43:17 - 01:03:45:23
Luna
We're just practicing doing our best.
01:03:46:01 - 01:04:14:09
Leah
Yeah, we're practicing. We're getting our repetition. But. Yeah. And, Oh. And what's turning me on right now? I guess, I mean, the the thing that comes to mind first is like, I comfort, like trust, but also just. Yeah, really like somebody who is super into me as a person is like a giant turn on.
01:04:14:11 - 01:04:43:15
Leah
Yeah. Yeah. Other other polyamorous people who want that to be a big part of their lives is also a big turn on to me. And, I, I keep just dating by men. I'm so much more comfortable. Well, I think, yeah. With by men. And I love that they've like, to some extent, like, grappled with that part of themselves and grappled with homophobia and, like, had to overcome that.
01:04:43:15 - 01:04:57:11
Leah
And like, I just think it's hot that they've done that and makes me more comfortable with them. And I think that they're a cool person. And so, yeah, I don't know, that's like really who I've been responding to and dating lately.
01:04:57:12 - 01:04:58:10
Luna
I love that.
01:04:58:12 - 01:05:01:01
Leah
Well and the movie challenge.
01:05:01:03 - 01:05:02:04
Luna
And was.
01:05:02:06 - 01:05:04:02
Leah
Behind that whole calendar is.
01:05:04:04 - 01:05:04:19
Luna
I need to.
01:05:04:21 - 01:05:15:22
Leah
Yeah. Yeah. It was like that and my dating turn on set by men go very much hand-in-hand. I recognize. Oh. Oh yeah.
01:05:16:00 - 01:05:22:14
Luna
Leah, thank you for being so vulnerable and open today. And thank you for coming back and sharing your sex stories.
01:05:22:16 - 01:05:24:23
Leah
Thank you for having me. Thank you for this outlet.
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