Daisy Chain Happy Place: Zachary Zane’s Update
- Luna Robbie
- Jul 9, 2024
- 27 min read
33 bisexual cis male, he/him pronouns, polyamorous, author of Boyslut: A Memoir and Manifesto, into: swinging, sex tourism, sex parties, kink, tantra, non-monogamy
🔗 ZACH LINKS | zacharyzane.com / @zacharyzane_
00:00:00:11 - 00:00:22:19
Luna
Our guest today is our favorite bisexual boy, slip, a polyamorous kink and author who has slept with literally thousands of people. Originally a guest on episode 230, Will You Do My Husband, which we renamed to do from fuck to try to be a little more euphemistic. From September 2023 here today to share with us new sex stories and relationship revelations.
00:00:22:21 - 00:00:26:15
Luna
Revelations. Welcome back, Zachary Zane.
00:00:26:17 - 00:00:34:07
Zach
Thank you. First of all, I love that introduction. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me back on. Excited to, talk sex here.
00:00:34:09 - 00:00:44:12
Luna
Me too. I'm always excited to talk all things sex, relationship, curiosity and also catch us up. Like, what have you been exploring since we talked last? What's sparking for you?
00:00:44:13 - 00:01:08:17
Zach
I feel like the biggest update, and I don't think I spoke about this last time, is I've kind of gotten involved in the swingers scene, but specifically the bisexual swingers, which I didn't know existed. Right? So obviously or not, obviously, but I think often when I thought of like swinger culture in the swinger events and parties, I'd been to and resorts and retreats and all that stuff.
00:01:08:18 - 00:01:28:04
Zach
It was like pretty straight, the men, you know, so like, the women would be potentially bisexual and they're bisexual desires. I think kind of could be anywhere on the spectrum from, hey, I'm actually really attracted to this woman and would want to date her or, hey, in this sexy scene, I'm down to go down on a woman, but that's not someone.
00:01:28:04 - 00:01:52:19
Zach
If I want to date or would have sex with outside of my husband. There is a little bit more performative bisexuality in a way that I think is actually fine, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not going to get on a high horse. And I think if everyone's doing it and enjoying it, it's fine. But if you were a guy that hooked up with another guy like, oh, absolutely not, that was really not a part of the swinger culture, but in the swinger events, I'd want to.
00:01:52:19 - 00:02:08:00
Zach
It's funny because I read as queer, you know what I mean? Like, no one looks at me and I'm in these events. I'm wearing my bright, you know, the gayest Speedo you've ever seen. I have my nipples pierced. And it's not like people are like, oh, yeah, that dude's like, straight, you know what I mean? Like, if you have eyes, you've heard me speak.
00:02:08:00 - 00:02:31:16
Zach
You're like, okay, there's this guy's a little fruity. I can say that. Probably you shouldn't, but anyway. But, like, so I it's funny because I've had so many experiences at these, you know, again, the regular traditional swinger events where a woman will come up to me, start talking to me, you know, seemingly flirt with me, seducing me, and then they'll kind of whisper, oh, are you into guys, too?
00:02:31:18 - 00:02:58:10
Zach
Clocking me as being by. And I'll say, yeah. And then they'll invite me back up to their room. So instead of going to, like, the playroom or the public space, which is what you usually would do. Yeah, they would invite me back to their room to do this in private. And this has happened a lot. Like, like this is not one of those things that just happened infrequently, which shows that there are a ton of bi sexual men who are out to their wives, you know, in the swinger space.
00:02:58:10 - 00:03:22:09
Zach
And I actually had one of the funniest stories where I went back one time, and this woman kind of looked like a younger version of, like, Goldie Hawn, like gorgeous, stunning, and like she was maybe in her like mid 60s, but clearly had money. So she looked like she was 35, you know what I mean? Like, you know, if you have my it doesn't matter age list.
00:03:22:11 - 00:03:41:15
Zach
And I remember like I was like, she really wanted me to fuck her husband and fuck her, but I'm like, fucking her husband. And I could see her, like, face is like an inch away from me penetrating him so I could, like, see my dick reflected in her eyes are penetrating him, and she was screaming like, fuck my gay husband.
00:03:41:15 - 00:03:58:09
Zach
And as her husband was being like, I'm so gay, I love being gay. And they were just shout, shouting this. And it was one of the funny like, again, like, this is their thing. They're enjoying it. But it was just such a funny I didn't like, know what to say. I'm like, all right, I'm fucking your gay husband.
00:03:58:11 - 00:04:26:14
Zach
But yeah. So anyway, I always had these kind of clandestine, behind the scenes bisexual, encounters at traditional swinger events. Then I went to this event, called In hedonism, which is like, you know, a very popular swingers resort in Jamaica. Like one of the most famous ones. And they had a specific bisexual take over. And it was phenomenal.
00:04:26:14 - 00:04:52:23
Zach
Like, all the guys were equally as by as as the women were. And everyone was doing everything. And it was even like hornier, I think just the environment like that. Everyone one could fuck, everyone created a different dynamic versus like, oh, I'm trying to kind of swap with another couple or like the husband versus the husbands and the wife or like the like versus now it's just like everyone has the potential.
00:04:52:23 - 00:05:16:12
Zach
So it was even hornier. And I learned that there are like, again, specifically bisexual swinger events. And I just went to one recently in Vegas with my partner and it was called, it was through like buy out is what this event was. And it's kind of been cool. This is now like the third bisexual swinger event I went to.
00:05:16:12 - 00:05:33:18
Zach
So the first one was, in Jamaica at hedonism. The second one was called BFF off, which like, initially they're like, don't talk about it. And then they're like, Zach, can you write about it? So I think it's fine that I talk about it like like I think they want me to, but it's called bisexual fuck fast BFF.
00:05:33:20 - 00:06:02:18
Zach
And that's in Palm Springs twice a year. So I went to that in January, and now I went to this one in Vegas. And it ends up being like camp in a way where it's it's similar people. So you actually do know these people and they live, you know, all over. And so I only will see them twice a year, at these events and all of a sudden like, yeah, this is kind of like, oh shit, I have this little group of people who I get to see at these events and people starting to know who I am and who my partner is.
00:06:02:20 - 00:06:15:01
Zach
And so I have been a little, I don't want to say, shitting on polyamory, although I feel like I've been shitting on polyamory. I have to be careful about saying that because I literally write a polyamory column and it's a.
00:06:15:03 - 00:06:21:06
Luna
It's a, it's an umbrella. It's used for so many things by so many people who aren't on the same page.
00:06:21:07 - 00:06:44:08
Zach
So no, no, no, it absolutely is. And I'm absolutely non-monogamous. Yeah. But like as I've been struggling a little bit more with polyamory in my relationship and being like, hey, we are more in an open relationship than a polyamorous relationship, it's kind of nice to see these older swingers who are not poly, they are just swingers and often they have sex together.
00:06:44:08 - 00:07:03:13
Zach
For the most part. They are so happily in love. They've been together for 30 years. This is what spices up their life and there's just very little drama. Yeah, and I think it's like when you have kids, a lot of them, you know, have kids my age and they like, you know, they like bringing that up or they hate bringing that up totally.
00:07:03:15 - 00:07:17:04
Zach
It's either they're like, oh, I'm kids your age, or they're like, yeah, we're not talking about how old you are. Yeah. Yeah. You know, they have their kids. They potentially they just got out of the house, they're going to college or they're 16, 17 or whatever. This is the one week of the year they get to just go out and have fun.
00:07:17:06 - 00:07:39:11
Zach
And I feel like they're just been a lot of potentially drama in my polyamorous relationships. And navigating it, and was a lot of feelings, and I felt like it was taking over my life in a way where I was like, is this fun? Am I enjoying this? Like, am I actually enjoying this? Or is my life just becoming a revolving door of heavy conversations and navigating emotions again?
00:07:39:13 - 00:08:11:20
Zach
This is me personally. Polyamory obviously can work out long term. It doesn't have to be super dramatic. But it's kind of nice to see these. Yeah, these role models in a way, for being like, hey, we can have non-monogamous relationships and be so there's so in love. My God, there's so and love and there's so comfortable with each other as they've been fucking and been together for 30 years, as opposed to some of the, you know, some of the, events I go to in New York or these newer ones, like if people are new to the scene and they've been with their partner for a year.
00:08:11:20 - 00:08:28:19
Zach
Yeah, they're a little more insecure. They have to have those kind of quiet conversations with each other about, like, you want to do, like the check ins, and I understand you should do that, and that's important. But seeing these people just like, are just fucking killing it. After 30 years, I'm like, yeah, I think they're on to something.
00:08:28:19 - 00:08:33:12
Zach
And and I like this, I like this. So it's been a breath of fresh air.
00:08:33:14 - 00:08:37:15
Luna
I love that. Can I ask follow up question because I'm so pleased there was a law.
00:08:37:16 - 00:08:39:12
Zach
That was a big ramble. Sorry. Oh no.
00:08:39:12 - 00:09:04:14
Luna
No, I love your rambles and I'm tracking you and I, you know, as a person who's been like, single and seeking single lish dating like, you know, dating on the edge of other people's molecules. But really, truly, I'm not a Google Calendar person. And because I've had more like therapy and space holding experience than a lot of people, I don't want to be in a situation where I become the groups free therapist and I fall into that trap, you know?
00:09:04:14 - 00:09:25:20
Luna
And so I've learned to set those boundaries. But my real question is like, so these spaces, are they also cookie or is it a bunch of I feel like there's a lot of overlap, but not necessarily a given. So what's the kink versus queer dynamic that you see? Like I'll start there. I'll start out with one question.
00:09:25:22 - 00:09:49:00
Zach
Yeah. I think it's both. Right. So there can be some of these people are kicking ass, mom fucker. I mean, I think it's I don't say a case by case basis, but, you know, there's always, you know, they have, like the sex rooms, which has, you know, a Saint Andrew's cross and a sex swing. So it has kind of those staples and people bring out their flaggers and things like that.
00:09:49:01 - 00:10:07:22
Zach
So I think more introductory or rudimentary or like classic Bdsm in a sense. But again, like, I think a lot of people are open to a lot more. It just also depends on like, is the space kind of set up for. Yeah, yeah.
00:10:08:03 - 00:10:35:18
Luna
I'm wondering about and also power dynamics and interpersonal like negotiation because as a person that has, after so many years of exposing myself to other people and getting lots of questions of like, are you on the spectrum or are you on the spectrum or are you on the spectrum? I've learned and probably am. And so I'm like, oh, my struggle has always just been getting on the same page socially, because I do actually need like a lot of dialog, a conversation, like I experience with someone who's pretty like down to go for it or has a good sense of that.
00:10:35:18 - 00:10:37:22
Luna
What what's it actually like for you?
00:10:38:00 - 00:10:59:02
Zach
So, it's I kind of like that. I mean, there definitely still is conversation, you know what I mean? Of course, consent is key. People will be asking, you know, if you want to hook up and people aren't going to be touching you without your consent. Yeah, yeah, for the most part, you know what I mean? So I think it's a light touch, whatever it is.
00:10:59:04 - 00:11:23:10
Zach
But it's, I know I kind of like for me, and I think I create this vibe and kind of cultivate. And people can see this in me as I kind of like a little more of a free for all in the setting, like I go in specifically, it's somewhat out for that, for it, because I've been to a lot of play parties in New York, and I understand, of course, the need for enthusiastic consent.
00:11:23:10 - 00:11:40:09
Zach
This is important. You want to make sure you're on the same page. I also think there's certain kind of issues with enthusiastic consent, and people rely on it instead of like, looking at body and noticing. And then and it could be very aggressive once was, hey, can we do this? And you're kind of like, no. Yeah.
00:11:40:11 - 00:11:46:05
Zach
What? As opposed to being like, I wish you would read my body cues, which clearly indicated you should not be fucking even asking this question.
00:11:46:05 - 00:12:06:04
Luna
Yeah, yeah. You know, for me, it's like the getting started part because I'm like, how do I get over the hump of, do you want to fuck? Because it's literally just the social cue once I'm touching someone, I know exactly what to do. And I am so good and I'm the best service. Anything. But like it's getting there for me that I struggle with.
00:12:06:06 - 00:12:16:23
Zach
I, I mean, I just assume and maybe this is a little bit arrogant, but I've given this advice to other people as well that if you talking to me and you come up and talk to me, you want to have sex with me, especially in.
00:12:16:23 - 00:12:18:21
Luna
This outer part,
00:12:18:23 - 00:12:37:10
Zach
You know, so we're we're we're at we're at a sex party, and. Yes, you could like this is not if it's a bar, it's a little bit different. You could be flirting and friendly and whatever it is. But if someone goes up to you and I mean, hey, how's your night going? I'm assuming they come up to me because they're attracted to me and that's we're going to go through the necessary dialog.
00:12:37:15 - 00:12:49:23
Zach
That's you. So I'm just being like immediate, like, let's go fucking no. You want to talk a little bit here, but especially because of that setting and space, I, I would just assume everyone's trying to fuck if they're being friendly and nice to you.
00:12:50:03 - 00:13:09:23
Luna
So maybe I just need to lead the way. Yeah. And practice laptop parts out in regular life. I have another question, which is really just a fantasy. I really have a fantasy about a bisexual daisy chain that includes cocks and strap ons in a big circle. Is that. Does that happen?
00:13:10:01 - 00:13:16:15
Zach
That's happening. I gotta go, I gotta go, girls. Have you been past everyone?
00:13:16:17 - 00:13:18:10
Luna
Oh, absolutely.
00:13:18:12 - 00:13:47:09
Zach
No, no, I my happy place, is being in the center of a daisy chain. So if I'm getting, like, fucked in the ass while fucking someone's ass or pussy or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah. And especially when it is mixed gender, it's actually very affirming for my bisexuality, you know, because it's, like, so hot. I mean, it's so hot, like, it's so hot, but it's like, we know when I'm fucking a 250 pound muscle power bottom, who is hair all over his body.
00:13:47:09 - 00:14:03:18
Zach
I'm not thinking like, oh, this is bisexual. I'm thinking, this is some gay shit I'm doing right here. You know what I mean? Or I'm having sex. You know, if I'm having sex with a high femme, high femme, fab woman or whatever, like, I'm not thinking like, oh, this is some gay or this is some bisexual sex.
00:14:03:18 - 00:14:27:18
Zach
I get it feels very straight, right? Right. And there is something just beautiful and, dare I say, spiritual about having these, like, mixed gendered, sexual experience is where, yeah, I'm engaging with both. That is just really again, it's it's hot, of course, but it just feeds my soul. It really does.
00:14:27:20 - 00:14:46:12
Luna
I love that, I love that, I love also just the idea of being in a place where because I have a don't I don't have a gaydar, I do not have a gaydar. And so I like being in a space where I could be like, you know, make a certain amount of assumptions, right? Because like, my artistic difficulty is I have to everything is too many possibilities until I get frozen.
00:14:46:14 - 00:15:04:10
Luna
Yeah. Has there ever been a daisy chain circle? Do you think that's logistically possible? Because that's my like. I want to just like, create that and then I and then I want to, like, go around and touch everybody in it. I don't know, I'm not sure. But that's like something I've been fantasizing about a lot lately. And logistically, is it possible.
00:15:04:12 - 00:15:11:19
Zach
Like, if it's an actual circle? I do not think so. I don't think you could, like, close the circle. I think, like.
00:15:11:21 - 00:15:16:07
Luna
But maybe mouse, if mouse are a part of it to. Then maybe there's another part of it.
00:15:16:09 - 00:15:24:18
Zach
You gotta, you gotta because I unless of. I feel like everyone's penis would have to strap I would have to like hook. Everyone would have to, like, have a hooked penis and then.
00:15:24:20 - 00:15:38:23
Luna
With a long enough strap on, you know, I'm like, oh, there's got to be a way that. And so that's like, I have these, like wild fantasies that I'm like, am I just trying to create art films? Do I really just want sensation experiences? I'm not sure. But it's like, that's like what I fucking fantasize about a lot.
00:15:39:01 - 00:16:04:15
Zach
It's I've definitely been in like, I think the most of, like train like Daisy chain train, I think has been like five people who are just doing it. And by the end, I mean often what ends up happening because kind of all bodies are different, okay? The sizes of strap ons are different. And, you know, if like, one person falls out in the middle and the fucking, you're like shit.
00:16:04:15 - 00:16:23:04
Zach
Like the whole the whole thing kind of crumbles here. But it was more to be like, you guys were doing this. Like it was like, we all like, we're in this together. And, like, everyone gets super fucking close to each other and the person in the back, you penetrate us into that person. It's not like everyone's actually like, move.
00:16:23:05 - 00:16:26:14
Zach
It's. I guess it's a podcast I'm making, like, all these, like, hand doorknobs that I know.
00:16:26:15 - 00:16:30:18
Luna
Will be video. There will be videos on YouTube. I want to go to YouTube. They can see video. Yeah.
00:16:30:23 - 00:16:46:17
Zach
Oh okay. Yeah. Like but it's it really is. I think the key to when you have that many people is like one person's really like fucking that person who's fucking then into that other person. But it's not all of you penetrating and going out and then because otherwise you have to coordinate that.
00:16:46:22 - 00:16:47:09
Luna
Right? Right.
00:16:47:09 - 00:17:08:00
Zach
But I had a position which was I don't know how this was possible, but speaking it was kind of like a daisy chain, but in that so I was in the middle and I was getting fucked while I was fucking, a vagina. But we were completely flat on each other, so like, it was just like. Like she was just lying horizontal.
00:17:08:00 - 00:17:25:00
Zach
I was lying completely flat on top of her, and he was lying completely flat on top of me in a way. So it was just like all of us. So I'm like, are you okay? Like you now have like, I'm I'm 200 pounds. He was like, he's my size. So another 200 pounds of me. And she was loving it.
00:17:25:01 - 00:17:36:20
Zach
But I've never been able to kind of like actually lie flat completely without having the angle myself. In a way, it was it was phenomenal. And it's like I hadn't even.
00:17:36:20 - 00:17:40:04
Luna
Attempted like missionary or were, you know, from behind. Okay.
00:17:40:04 - 00:17:41:16
Zach
Oh, for me, I.
00:17:41:18 - 00:17:44:06
Luna
It's like the best weighted blanket ever.
00:17:44:08 - 00:17:58:18
Zach
It it was it that's what it was. And I'm just like, thinking like how like. And it just happened to be our bodies. Yeah. Melded together were puzzle pieces that work. And that's one of the fun things, you know, you think you've done it all sexually or every.
00:17:58:19 - 00:18:04:12
Luna
So I don't I had a long bucket list. Take too many things.
00:18:04:12 - 00:18:22:02
Zach
But. I think naively for a while I was like, oh, I have to. And then you just hear of stuff. Yeah. That like again. And that's not something like I even like thought to like a dream. I was just like, oh, here's a new sexual position, a threesome sexual position that was.
00:18:22:02 - 00:18:22:22
Luna
Happen upon it.
00:18:22:22 - 00:18:26:00
Zach
Just so good. Yeah. That was so good.
00:18:26:02 - 00:18:46:19
Luna
That to me, going back to what you said about the kind of like spiritual experience is the stuff that of like, I don't it's not like I'm like strategizing where to put my physical human body in time or space to do this thing. It's like I'm so turned on. And then sometimes I find myself, like, somehow scissoring a dude and like, using his leg to just get him deeper in me.
00:18:46:19 - 00:18:58:05
Luna
And we're like, at the other end. I'm like, what am I even how did I get a play down like this? You know? And it's like, it's this stuff where I'm like, this is a lot. So, you know, I, I have a lot of fantasies. I'm going to have to go to BF Palm Springs is not that far away from me.
00:18:58:06 - 00:19:08:22
Luna
Damn like lower like other highlights are like like. And do you go with anything in mind specifically or do you just like go to see what happens? Like how do you approach these things now?
00:19:09:00 - 00:19:35:18
Zach
It's so I go with my girlfriend. So I have it's nice kind of having the same person you kind of go with and you build each time around. And I think we just go with the intention of meeting and hooking up with new people, like, so yeah, I guess that's really it. I think we just like, have an open mind and make sure to not get overwhelmed too, because, you know, it can be like four days of fucking ten different people a day.
00:19:35:18 - 00:20:08:12
Zach
And, you know, day 2 or 3, you're like, all right, maybe we just take it easy tonight. You know, it's a marathon and not a sprint here for sure. But it's I think it's one thing I love, especially about this. Like, everyone is so fucking friendly. Like, like in a way where, again, not to stereotype, but I'm going to know I like I come from a place of, like, gay culture in New York, where I can go out in Hell's Kitchen and it's like they are some mean gays.
00:20:08:13 - 00:20:25:05
Zach
That's just the truth of it. And I go out and, like, I'm a pretty secure and confident person, and I see myself just, you know, trying to talk to people and people giving me side eye or looking me up and down or flirting with someone in mid-conversation, someone else hotter walks by and they just stop to go talk to the other person.
00:20:25:06 - 00:20:56:08
Zach
You're like, really? What the fuck? Like, like, but I've just had a lot of not great experiences, if I'm being honest at a lot of these very popular gay spaces, and to the point where it was a shame because it kind of turned me off from them. So, you know, I want to be part of this community, but I'm like, if I'm feeling shitty about myself and insecure, all the sudden I'm body negative and obsessed about how I look again, like, oh, I think, oh, I think we were talking about this maybe before, this turned on.
00:20:56:08 - 00:21:22:19
Zach
But like, I'm asking myself like the question, am I enjoying this? Yeah. Like and the answer was I wasn't enjoying. Gay spaces are many gay spaces I have found once I feel comfortable in and feel embraced and accepted and less judgy. So I think I came from that atmosphere for many years where I'm like, what's going on? I'm not loving this, and I feel like this was my only option.
00:21:22:19 - 00:21:37:06
Zach
And I think that was also the fear where it's like, well, if I don't do this, I don't go out. I don't meet queer people. So then to have almost the exact opposite of these people who are like telling you how beautiful you are and everyone is friendly and down to talk and you just say, hey, how's your day going?
00:21:37:06 - 00:21:45:03
Zach
Great. How about you? And like, that that level of friendliness I really enjoy. Yeah.
00:21:45:05 - 00:21:53:01
Luna
Yeah. What's the space like? Like, is it nice? Does everyone stay at the same hotel? It's a takeover, right? Like it's all one spot.
00:21:53:03 - 00:22:10:04
Zach
So it depends like which takeover it is. Some of the hotels are like. They're definitely the ones that are more expensive, right. That are boozy are and nicer. And they have all the amenities and yeah, very nice food and stuff like that. And then they're the ones that are just like pretty cheap, like like, you know what I mean?
00:22:10:04 - 00:22:29:08
Zach
Like this will be a specific like swingers or sex resort in Palm Springs that makes it very affordable. You know, for food, they might be like, hey, we're just ordering pizza, or we're getting Panda Express, which I think is so funny considering people are bottoming. I'm like, please don't order Panda Express for me right now. Like, that's like the last thing I want.
00:22:29:13 - 00:22:45:23
Zach
But like, that doesn't advertise as being like, oh, this is like, this is a lot more affordable. And yes, they will set up and have a good sex space with whatever it is. But so it kind of. Yeah. Do you want to spend $5,000 for the week, or do you want to spend a few hundred dollars for the weekend.
00:22:46:00 - 00:22:54:15
Zach
You know what else. So it depends what it is. But I think there are. Yeah. Lower range to like upper range. Options.
00:22:54:17 - 00:23:06:11
Luna
Okay. Wow. What about outside of these? Like, wild sex parties? Like what? What else have you been either enjoying and or learning about yourself?
00:23:06:12 - 00:23:25:03
Zach
Oh my goodness. So this this is going to be my new book is about. But, no. So I think, I've really been working on, like, cultivating intimacy. And I feel like I've been someone who's been very good at having sex. And I write about sex professionally. Right. I write the sex and relationship advice column for Men's Health.
00:23:25:03 - 00:23:30:12
Zach
I love the column I Cosmo. I have a book called Boy Slut, which everyone needs to buy. It just came out on paper, but,
00:23:30:14 - 00:23:31:07
Luna
Yeah.
00:23:31:09 - 00:23:58:06
Zach
So you have no excuse. It just came out. Yeah, the paperback was just released, and that's a fun, educational, but like the sexy book. And I think what I've kind of realized is intimacy and actually falling in love and having, like, I, I've been someone who's been somewhat avoidant my whole life in my, serious relationship or purposely I dated people in my 20s who I didn't see long term potential with.
00:23:58:08 - 00:24:20:18
Zach
So like for any number of reasons, that doesn't mean they are bad people or that like, it doesn't mean I didn't love them, but oh, we weren't compatible. You know, I dated someone who I'm an author and a writer, and they were like, oh, I've never read a book. And they just didn't read. And so like, oh, I didn't I wasn't sharing in that connection with them, which is now very important, you know, for me.
00:24:20:21 - 00:24:29:09
Zach
And now I have a partner who worked as a literary publicist. And so, like, is introducing me to new authors and new writers. And she also edits my work, which is really cool, sexy.
00:24:29:09 - 00:24:31:09
Luna
That's so hot.
00:24:31:11 - 00:24:56:05
Zach
To have that. And it just so wow, like, like this is such a level of depth that I didn't have before. So I would purposely date people and I again, this was unconscious, but in a way where I'm like, oh, this will just be a few months and it's fun. And then finally in my early one of my early ish 30s, like I was like, yeah, I think I'm ready for something a little bit more.
00:24:56:05 - 00:25:11:23
Zach
And I was putting out that energy and I was kind of being a little bit more discerning of people where I'm like, hey, I actually don't see this working out long term. So let me not engage and date them. I think for a while I had this mentality of like, well, I'm not looking to settle down. And if I enjoy, I'd like a polyamory aspect too.
00:25:11:23 - 00:25:21:01
Zach
It's like, well, if I had a really beautiful relationship with someone for a year. Yeah, that's beautiful again, like I especially because I don't want kids. So there isn't like a time I.
00:25:21:01 - 00:25:21:12
Luna
Totally get.
00:25:21:12 - 00:25:50:18
Zach
It. Yeah, like like if I wanted kids, you can feel like, oh, I kind of wasted a year of my life, but it's like, oh, whether I spend, you know, I end up spending 45 years with my long term partner as opposed to 50, I think I'll be I think I'll be okay. So yeah, I fell in love with this person and we've been dating now for not that long maybe, but like seven, eight months, but enough that it's like, oh, like by now I would usually know, do I want to be with this person or not?
00:25:50:18 - 00:26:03:22
Zach
And I really do love them and I want to be with them. And now I'm almost find myself. It's like, oh my God, I'm getting jealous in a way that I used to not. Which is funny, because I think a lot of the people I dated, I wasn't really worried if they left me, you know what I mean?
00:26:03:22 - 00:26:24:16
Zach
Like, I like even though I love them. Like I didn't see this being long term, so, oh, how do I navigate this? How do I cultivate? And we have meaningful sex over this long period of time? You know what I mean? I want to have a highly sexual relationship, but also it's tough, you know, having sex and intimacy with the person that you really, really love as opposed to a hot stranger.
00:26:24:16 - 00:26:34:22
Zach
It's different. That's a little more challenging for me. So this has kind of been my new journey. I've been getting a little bit. We will not annoyingly we will hopefully, but definitely.
00:26:34:22 - 00:26:38:10
Luna
Opinions on who you're around. Some people are easily annoyed.
00:26:38:12 - 00:26:58:03
Zach
It's more easily annoyed. But I've been get a little way when trying to do a little bit more tantra and stuff like that. And this is kind of been it's like my new, what's the what? I'm looking at the new frontier. And, and so that's been really exciting to kind of embark on this journey with my new partner.
00:26:58:04 - 00:27:06:03
Zach
We're doing it together and it's been challenging but also like beautiful and really rewarding. And so that's kind of where I am now.
00:27:06:05 - 00:27:31:05
Luna
I love that so much. And it mirrors so much of what I've been hearing from other people a desire for intimacy, a desire connection, and my own kind of like take on relationships lately has been, well, whatever size or depth or commitment level. Right? Like even if it's a just a casual coming together for a weekend or this boundary period of time, because we're playing this fun game, I am seeing every intimate connection as a co-creation.
00:27:31:06 - 00:27:51:03
Luna
And I just want like I want co-creators. I want play friends who, like, really want to be there with me and play and co-create and yeah, share themselves, you know, and like, yes, the holes. Yes. I want to be like dirty split and get used properly. But I'm also kind of looking for an I'm not quite as far along as you.
00:27:51:03 - 00:28:10:08
Luna
I'm sort of like, well, we'll see who gets that into the inner sphere long term. I'm open. I'm now beginning to be open, but I have been so just sort of like guarded looking for that meaning. And so I kind of hear I have my own version of that, as I hear you say that, how can I ask you out to stuff like, I'm curious about Tantra?
00:28:10:08 - 00:28:13:08
Luna
Like it's a bit eye gazing, breathing. Like, how has that been.
00:28:13:10 - 00:28:32:11
Zach
If I'm really just starting the stream? Yeah, but it's it's amazing how, just like eye gazing while you hold your partner or looking to each other or like, you know, have your hand on each other's hearts and you look into each other's eyes and I'll just I'll just start, like, crying, you know, like, if you do it like, for long enough and I'm like, oh my God, you feel yourself get a little anxious.
00:28:32:13 - 00:28:52:08
Zach
Yeah. Breathing and slowly regulating your breathing. And you're just like, the fuck is going on. Like I guess I just didn't expect such a, you know, it sounds so silly and so ridiculous and some of the people who practice it and talk about it are so fucking annoying. And I.
00:28:52:08 - 00:28:52:20
Luna
Think.
00:28:52:22 - 00:28:54:06
Zach
If I'm being honest, you know, I.
00:28:54:07 - 00:29:10:07
Luna
Mean, I've, I've literally only like read books about tantra, watched videos about tantra, and then encountered people either in real life or on dating apps that gave me those kinds of feelings, like the conscious. Yeah, like more of the words than the connection.
00:29:10:09 - 00:29:26:06
Zach
And some of those people in those spaces are predators, you know what I mean? And they're very smart and able to use it not to get dark very quickly. But, you know, they know how to use this language in a way that kind of you think is intimate. They're helping you and supporting you. And in the end, they're actually not.
00:29:26:06 - 00:29:41:22
Zach
So it's something like, I think people have been exposed for this. So it's yeah, it doesn't necessarily have the best rap, but some of these just simple exercises. We're starting with. And yeah, the eye gazing is something that's like, love can be really. Yeah.
00:29:42:02 - 00:30:05:07
Luna
I well, it took me a long time to learn to like stare into people's eyes. Less like both in real life and also in sex. And so I now like depending on the scenario, I will ask permission or if I catch myself glancing and the sense a discomfort, I'll check in. But like I was a headshot photographer for years for my bread and butter and so like my job was to like up close, zoom in on eyeballs and I just fucking love them.
00:30:05:07 - 00:30:20:14
Luna
And if I can stare eyeballs and breathe and they want to stare back at me, I love that because when it like I've always, ever since I was a little kid, I've always just felt like, who's in there? You know, like, yeah, like, what is that? But yeah, I know it's intense for people.
00:30:20:16 - 00:30:25:08
Zach
It's. Yeah. And thinking of me. Why is it intense? You know what I mean? Like what?
00:30:25:08 - 00:30:36:23
Luna
What are either our brains, but yeah, it's our little pieces of our brain that are just out. So it's super literally vulnerable maybe, I don't know. Yeah. Being seen. Seeing. Yeah.
00:30:36:23 - 00:30:56:04
Zach
Being seen. It's scary. So it's been, it's been an exciting journey. And I'm kind of, you know, exciting to. It's been exciting to, like, write about it and unpack it. And this is kind of one of those things which has been cool of, yeah, for this new book, which I need to really get some of these chapters in.
00:30:56:04 - 00:31:17:10
Zach
But like, I'm not coming it from this place of like, expertise where it's like usually it's like, oh, I'm the sex expert. I never claimed to be the intimacy expert per se or not, per se. No, I just haven't. But like so this is just more of me being like, hey, I'm going through this. And one thing I've learned from being a writer, is that I'm not special.
00:31:17:13 - 00:31:35:06
Zach
And this has been kind of such a great thing where it's just like, if I'm struggling with something or going through something that means millions of other people are too. Yeah, my experiences are actually not as unique as one might suspect. Maybe we've been to a few more sex parties than you, but what I struggle with intimacy is going to be universal.
00:31:35:08 - 00:31:50:01
Zach
So just being like, here's what's going on in my life. I think this might be pretty helpful or just, if nothing else, a little interesting and help you unpack some of your own stuff, too. So it's kind of nice to approach it from this lens.
00:31:50:03 - 00:31:59:15
Luna
Oof, I love the any other, like, specific updates you want to give or anything else you want to shout out or like work wise, you know, people can go subscribe to your Substack. What else do we want to say?
00:31:59:15 - 00:32:26:16
Zach
Oh yeah. So everyone should really grab a copy of Boy Slut, a memoir manifesto, which is my memoir, obviously, that just came out on paperback, available everywhere. Books are sold. Oh, you have to do boy slut is one word because of sex, negativity, and people get dinged if it's two different words. I also have a Substack called Boy Slut, which is either, great branding or extremely confusing.
00:32:26:18 - 00:32:49:02
Zach
Like so the the zine or the Substack is just like kinky as fuck nonfiction sex stories for me and other authors. The book is a little bit more education, looks at my history and adds a little bit more like it has more like sex advice. Kind of the columnist hat on versus the Substack really is just like, here's some kinky ass queer shit.
00:32:49:02 - 00:32:50:04
Zach
Enjoy it with.
00:32:50:04 - 00:32:52:00
Luna
Great illustrations also.
00:32:52:02 - 00:33:13:05
Zach
Oh my god, I just started doing that. Maybe like six months ago, like a year ago, where I was like, hey, instead of using like, Getty Images, let's actually, like get queer artists to give their rendition of the piece and everyone blows me away. They're like everyone that comes in. I'm like, this is phenomenal. So, that's been really cool.
00:33:13:07 - 00:33:13:23
Zach
Yeah.
00:33:14:01 - 00:33:33:13
Luna
Yeah. Okay, so I have one final question for you. At this point in time today, I know you're not an expert, you're just another person. But because we're all here to share our own experiences and spread ripples of love across the world, what do you think we need right now? Collectively, individually, whatever, to make the world a sexier, more loving place?
00:33:33:15 - 00:33:57:21
Zach
Oh my God, it's, I think just a little bit more self forgiveness. I feel like we are often our own biggest critics and we judge ourselves so hard. And I've almost learned to kind of sometimes I speak it like almost of myself in third person, because I know that if I was giving advice to someone else, I would be so much kinder to them.
00:33:57:23 - 00:34:14:10
Zach
And versus if I speak. Yeah, like almost creating that differentiation between, you know, me, the advice giver and me myself has been helpful. But I think if we could all just be a little bit kinder to ourselves, we'd start being a little bit kinder to other people, too.
00:34:14:12 - 00:34:31:13
Luna
I feel that's so hard. That is, full heartedly lovers. You can go to Zachary zane.com to find links to all these things. Follow him on Instagram at Zachary Zane Underscore Zachary Zane, thank you so much for coming back and sharing your updates on sex stories.
00:34:31:15 - 00:34:33:18
Zach
Thank you so much for having me on. This was a lot of fun.
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