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40 heteroflexible Dominant white dude, he/him pronouns, monogamous, 24/7 power dynamic, married with kids, works in education, US east coast, into: spanking, cum play, watersports, and his submissive

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00:00:00:01 - 00:00:22:09

Luna

Our guest today is a 40 year old hetero flexible white dude who uses he him pronouns, who is in a monogamous marriage. They were high school sweethearts, and their vanilla origin story has evolved into a rewarding and nurturing 24 over seven years dominant submissive power dynamic as they also navigate family life that includes three kids in the spanking, rope and bondage.

00:00:22:09 - 00:00:30:15

Luna

Come play water sports and his submissive. He works in education and is with us today from the US East Coast. Welcome, Steve.

00:00:30:17 - 00:00:33:18

Steve

Hello, Ohio. Hi. How are you?

00:00:33:20 - 00:00:58:05

Luna

I'm awesome. We're doing my second favorite thing next to actual fucking. So thank you for joining me here for this conversation today. Before we dive into sexy, naughty details, let's start by getting to know you just a little bit. So first I would love to hear what in general brings you joy or excitement in this lifetime. What makes you go woohoo!

00:00:58:14 - 00:01:08:09

Steve

I love being outdoors. I love the people that I care about and I love being a highly sexual person.

00:01:08:11 - 00:01:13:01

Luna

Oh, have you always loved being a highly sexual person or is that part of a journey we're going to hear about?

00:01:13:08 - 00:01:33:13

Steve

It's definitely part of a journey. I think ever since I kind of began to mature as a very young man, it has been a large part of my life. So I'd say, yeah, but I was that kind of. I was not highly sexualized when I was a young boy. Yeah. So that that's something that developed for sure.

00:01:33:15 - 00:01:34:10

Steve

Okay.

00:01:34:12 - 00:01:36:19

Luna

What sort of outdoor activities do you enjoy?

00:01:36:21 - 00:02:00:06

Steve

I'm big into mountain biking. I'm big into kind of just getting out into the woods. I live in a highly wooded area, so it's it's certainly a lot to explore. And I just like being independent. I like to be able to go out and feel like I'm in charge of myself.

00:02:00:08 - 00:02:21:03

Luna

I totally feel that. I feel like also being in nature is such a healthy, helpful reset for me. You know, especially in the time of screens like just being feeling sunlight on my skin, breathing air that's near tree. Like, I love that. I would love to hear next. How do you will you tell us a little bit about your self-love?

00:02:21:13 - 00:02:50:02

Steve

I am the type of person who enjoys physical activity. I think in order to feel like I'm being a healthy person, I like to be able to use my body. I think my physicality and my physical being is a big part of what I feel important to me. It's just a big part of my life. So I think caring for my body, moving my body, feeling like I'm strong is something that's always been important for me.

00:02:50:08 - 00:02:58:10

Steve

Not in like, kind of like a jock meat head kind of way. But I just enjoy being a person who can do things. That's awesome.

00:02:58:12 - 00:03:07:02

Luna

I did not learn to love moving my body until just a few years ago. Do you feel like that was always a part of you, or is it something you've cultivated or perhaps a mixture?

00:03:07:04 - 00:03:36:19

Steve

It's funny because when I was a younger kid, I. I've always been a larger person. So I think people have always looked at me as a physical person, someone who can lift heavy things and be strong and do strong things. But I was kind of a clumsy child when it came to sports and things like that. And I think just recently, as a, as a older person, I've kind of just learned to let go of worrying whether I'm clumsy or not.

00:03:36:19 - 00:04:06:12

Steve

And I've turned into even a a better athlete. But I've always been really interested in and doing things with my body in terms of like building. I build things. I can work with wood. I can kind of figure things out. I'm handy. So, yeah, I mean, I think I've always been a physical person, but it's not until recently where I felt like I can just kind of not worry about whether I'm doing it right or not, and just become kind of more of a comfortable with my body.

00:04:06:13 - 00:04:19:02

Luna

Okay. That's great. It sounds like a lot of your self-love is very active. Do you have any more, like relaxing things? I'm totally biased because I'm like a bathtubs person. Like. Like, do you have any lazier self-love?

00:04:19:10 - 00:04:39:13

Steve

It's the bathtub. I am a I am a bath tub person. I have always been a bathtub person. And funny that you sit back because as soon as you said it before, you mentioned bathtubs. That's my spot. I've grew up in a house that had a really large bathtub that had like the whirlpool jets, which I actually don't like.

00:04:39:15 - 00:04:42:11

Luna

I don't yeah, I want it to be called.

00:04:42:12 - 00:05:06:15

Steve

Yeah, I like super hot, almost so hot I can barely get in, which I don't know if that's healthy or not, but I don't care. And I will force myself to get into the scalding water and then I can sit in there forever. I could probably stay in for like an hour to an hour and a half until I'm old and dehydrated, and then I have to get out and try not to pass out and drink water.

00:05:06:17 - 00:05:27:22

Luna

So how do I totally. Well, you don't look like you've boiled yourself, and if your body can handle it, you're probably okay. And there are all sorts of researchers that say that, you know, if we raise our body temperature before bedtime, I'm mean, I'm a nighttime batter, then it's easy to fall asleep because then our temperature, our internal temperature drops after we're very hot and I too will get into a hot bath because I like to turn red and pink.

00:05:27:22 - 00:05:40:01

Luna

Like I like to see my skin get red and pink. You know, spankings aren't the only way. And then I like to stay in until it's like, cold, you know, I'll read a book. I do try to bring hydration, but, yeah, I'm right there with you with the protein ish.

00:05:40:16 - 00:06:02:09

Steve

I've gotten into a bad habit where I've been bringing my phone into the tub with me, which is really, I need to get away. I used to bring books, but I was ruining all my books, even though I had like a special rack to put them on. Inevitably, you ruin the book. Either you dump the whole thing in or just slowly get steamed over time.

00:06:02:11 - 00:06:05:18

Luna

I have not yet dumped a book, but I have totally steamed them.

00:06:05:20 - 00:06:14:17

Steve

Yeah, yeah, so I need to get back to that. But yes, bathtubs is for sure. You know, pretty much anybody who knows me knows that. Yeah.

00:06:14:19 - 00:06:29:05

Luna

Oh, I love that I love that okay, so now tell us, how would you like to receive love from others or attention or affection? You know, anything that makes you melt, receiving from another human being. How do you like to be wooed?

00:06:29:07 - 00:06:59:00

Steve

The first thing that comes to mind is love, languages and how I identify with my love languages and I think for me, I'm very big into physical touch and I'm very big into acts of service. I do enjoy conversation, but it's for me, it's showing me how much you love me through touching me and pleasing me, and doing acts, specifically sexual acts of service for me is my love language.

00:06:59:00 - 00:07:05:19

Steve

That's that's what makes me feel appreciated the most. Yeah, totally hear that.

00:07:05:21 - 00:07:28:09

Luna

Now you are in a long term connection with a beloved partner. I would love to hear if you can articulate what makes you or helps you, where supports you in feeling connected to another person, and it can be the romantic partner or kind of in any context, like what is it that helps you feel connected to another human being?

00:07:28:11 - 00:07:36:12

Steve

I enjoy reading, I feel that I'm an empathetic person, and I know everybody says they're an empathetic person, but.

00:07:36:12 - 00:07:38:04

Luna

Not everybody does.

00:07:38:06 - 00:07:48:05

Steve

I know, I know, but I've met a lot of people who say they're empathetic, and you pay attention to them and they don't. I don't know if they know what the word means.

00:07:48:07 - 00:07:53:08

Luna

It can be confused with projection quite a lot, I think, you know, and that's also how we experience the world.

00:07:53:13 - 00:08:28:05

Steve

Maybe I do as well, I'm not sure, but I enjoy trying to connect with people on an emotional level where I feel like I am trying to identify with the way they're feeling and then I can kind of match that energy with them. You did mention my partner, who's a huge part of my life and has been for a very long time, and I feel that I connect with her in, in a unusual and unique way that I haven't really connected with anybody else.

00:08:28:06 - 00:09:18:10

Steve

So I think when when you ask the question, that's who I think about is I think about how do I connect with her and how is that, important for me? I'm not a religious person, but I am spiritual in a personal way, and I think the connection that I feel with her is a spiritual connection. What's fun and interesting and often problematic with that is that she has a different love language than I do, and we need to figure out how to meet each other's needs in a way that's beneficial for both of us and makes us feel as if we're both being even or fair, or connecting, to each other in a

00:09:18:10 - 00:09:42:08

Steve

way that's meaningful, because sometimes it gets uneven, or sometimes it gets, out of whack, and we have to reconnect. We've done this through our entire relationship is we've had moments of being disconnected, sometimes very severely disconnected to the point where we're not together, but we always seem to magnetically attract back to each other.

00:09:42:10 - 00:10:04:14

Luna

I love that answer. And you've nearly preempted my next question, which is what quality or type or texture of connection do you need to feel with a partner before getting physically intimate? You know, and there's there's the like broad answer that you could look out of, like winding back to the beginning, like, why did you escalate the connection?

00:10:04:16 - 00:10:25:14

Luna

But I think because we have the benefit of talking to someone who's been a long term connection, it could be really interesting to hear, like on a day to day way especially, you know, those moments where we fluctuate with closeness and distance with a partner. Like what quality of connection do you need to feel between the two of you for physical intimacy to feel the juiciest?

00:10:25:16 - 00:10:50:05

Steve

I think herein lies the problem that I just mentioned before is I need to touch. Like for me, I can jump right in and for me that's what's going to make me feel connected. So it's the act. It's doing whatever sexy fun thing or even if it's just something small, like hugging or being close. For me, it's that like, it makes me think, what's the song?

00:10:50:05 - 00:11:11:01

Steve

It's, enjoy the silence. You know, it's for Edison, but for me, yeah. Like, I don't need to have the long conversation. I don't need to check in about how the day was for me. It's that almost magnetic connection where we see each other and boom, like, our bodies just kind of come together and connect. And it's been like that.

00:11:11:01 - 00:11:50:05

Steve

And I said, I've been in a long term relationship. We have taken breaks, and both of us have been with other people and have had other experiences. And for me, it's just that's universal for me is it's I can I can go right to the physical, I can. It's not that that's how I feel connected. Whereas my partner is very much needs to have kind of the social conversation beforehand and make sure that that connection is made before they're in a space where they feel like they can have the physical connection.

00:11:50:08 - 00:12:15:17

Steve

And this has led to problems in the past. And I think us transitioning into our dynamic has actually really helped with this. It's helped with communication between us, and it's helped us verbalize what we're able to what we need from each other in a calm way, which has avoided a lot of our. So yeah, for me, it's like I can just go right, right to it, right to the physical.

00:12:15:17 - 00:12:17:17

Steve

And that's what I want.

00:12:17:19 - 00:12:32:15

Luna

So at the risk of jumping ahead a little bit, I would love to hear what has been helpful in the communication that it sounds like accompanies the dynamic between you and your partner. Like what have you discovered in that respect?

00:12:32:17 - 00:12:59:19

Steve

So we began our quest, and I want to say that I'm the one who's kind of been directing this whole adventure. And sometimes that has also led to problems where I'm kind of pushing my agenda and my partner, I submissive, is, pulling me back a little bit because of her own comfort level. And that's something that I've had to come to grips with.

00:13:00:01 - 00:13:30:07

Steve

But we began the adventure in a 24 seven dominant submissive dynamic in what I would say was like a very traditional way. I kind of read all the blogs, I read some books, I listened to some podcasts, and I created this monstrosity of a contract that we were going to follow that had all these rules that we agreed upon.

00:13:30:09 - 00:14:09:03

Steve

And what was interesting is when I made that contract and I did make it with her, we agreed that we would have monthly meetings to discuss how the contract was going, and we did that. You know, we weren't perfect with it, but we had these sit down meetings and try to do it in space, where we were both very neutral and calm and able to kind of discuss the contract from as much of an outside perspective or neutral perspective as possible and figure out what was working and what was not.

00:14:09:05 - 00:14:49:14

Steve

And this led to just really constructive conversation as to how we were feeling and how we were experiencing the dynamic and how our relationship was just doing, in general. So I think just allowing it was almost like a therapy session. And we've been to couples therapy before, so we knew what that was like. But being able to kind of just do it on our own and do it with this kind of fun thing that we've, we created or that I started and then she had her hand in as well, really led to some solid communication between us that we hadn't had before that.

00:14:49:16 - 00:14:50:05

Steve

Yeah.

00:14:50:07 - 00:15:09:09

Luna

So I'm hearing regularly structured check ins that create space for that communication, that co-create a sense of connection. That is, even if you don't need that kind of a connection to feel sexually aroused or wanting to physically connect, it sounds like it is supporting that connection for both of you.

00:15:09:11 - 00:15:29:14

Steve

Yeah. And I think especially those meetings were not there was no for at least for me, that was not it wasn't supposed to be like a sexual thing, like it was just a way for us to really check in with each other where we would feel comfortable doing that without any kind of sexual pressure. Right? Yeah, yeah.

00:15:29:20 - 00:15:41:18

Luna

Am I understanding correctly that the focus is about your sex life, like it's about your dynamic or your connection, your sexual connection? Or is it a general life check in? Like what's the structure of it? I love details.

00:15:41:20 - 00:16:08:20

Steve

It's well, it's very much about it started very much about the contract. And I think what we realize is that we are different in our sexual drives. I am very highly sexual. I'm constantly thinking about it. I that's my interest. I am very fascinated with her and she is very much kind of my muse and objects of desire, and it's different for her.

00:16:08:20 - 00:16:32:22

Steve

I think the drive is not the same. And I we've ran into some problems even when we were dating in high school, and we first kind of met each other all the way through our marriage, where I am just I have a drive and I'm pushing and I'm always kind of asking for things, wanting things, expecting things, which led to resentment when I wasn't receiving them.

00:16:33:00 - 00:17:15:17

Steve

And it just turned into something that was turning into this kind of beast. And I think by switching into the dynamic one, it allows me to communicate my needs and what I'm wanting more clearly and more reasonably. But to it also is allowing her to do the same thing, to say these are what I need or not need all the time, and it's just allowed us to connect with each other in a way that I think was clouded with a lot of resentment that I noticed in a lot of relationships, especially kind of monogamous, monogamous marriages, that it's always been something that I didn't want to become.

00:17:15:17 - 00:17:32:07

Steve

And I feel like we were becoming that in our in our marriage. So we're just really enjoying this. I love the new dynamic and what it looks like now, which is different than that giant contract I mentioned earlier. Yeah, yeah.

00:17:32:09 - 00:17:56:08

Luna

I love explicitly creating space for both parties to check in about needs, because what I've noticed from talking to people is not only do many long term partnerships who fall into a rhythm, you know, they people love each other. Not only do they forget to check in or share their needs with each other, oftentimes it comes from a place of not even having conscious awareness around what they actually need.

00:17:56:10 - 00:18:14:00

Luna

Because, you know, life is a lot like there's a lot to keep up with. And if it's not explicitly prioritized, it's easy to just let something go. I know that even as a single person in my own life, you know, as I navigate lover ships, I'm just like, I got to express my needs, you know, with each lover as it evolves.

00:18:14:00 - 00:18:29:14

Luna

And in relationships where I don't set up a pattern of that, I have a much more difficult time personally bringing something up, because then I feel like I'm creating a problem or I'm like, you know, whatever, being the buzzkill or something. So I love.

00:18:29:16 - 00:19:09:22

Steve

Ya. Well, yeah, it's funny because like, we have tried, I have a family and we have limited kind of alone time at least, you know, for dates and things like that. Yeah. And playtime. Just the time to really take that time to connect with each other. I think there are times where we've tried to squeeze our meetings into a date, where we've got all dressed up, we've gone out, we're sitting at a restaurant and we try to kind of hold a makeshift meeting, and it's not neutral.

00:19:09:22 - 00:19:36:10

Steve

It's not the time to do it. And it's ruin date night for one reason or another, but it's just not relaxed. And if it's not sitting on the couch and just looking at the contract or just having that kind of neutral discussion with each other. So we have done that a few times where we've forgotten what what space we're supposed to be in, and it doesn't turn out very well.

00:19:36:12 - 00:19:38:17

Steve

Yeah, it turns into an argument. Yeah.

00:19:38:18 - 00:19:59:07

Luna

Well, I mean, look, experiments are worthy and they sometimes the results are conclusive and not necessarily what we hoped to discover in that experiment. Right. And, you know, I think that sometimes there's only one way to, to discover that. And I totally could I could understand making that choice. And it sounds like you have learned from it in a apt way.

00:19:59:09 - 00:20:01:01

Luna

I would love to hear.

00:20:01:03 - 00:20:02:11

Steve

What.

00:20:02:13 - 00:20:20:02

Luna

Health and safety considerations or practices you do like. Obviously, you're in a long term connection, so it's maybe not the same as like going out and fucking lots of people, but it sounds like you have had experiences with other lovers in the past, so maybe whatever feels relevant to you. What are some of your health and safety practices?

00:20:20:04 - 00:20:48:14

Steve

Yeah, I do, I was thinking about this question because it's not quite the same for us. We we have talked about bringing in other people in the future, but I think that's always kind of remained the the distant future. So we're not actively testing or things like that or having to have those conversations with each other. We are fluid bonded.

00:20:48:14 - 00:21:25:12

Steve

We are comfortable enough with each other that we know we can trust each other. But I think what I had thought about when when I looked at this question was our kind of mental safety with each other, and are we treating each other in a way that's, being considerate of the other person's mental well-being and making sure that this kind of experiment that you mentioned, because it is, even though we've been doing it for going on three years now, is really what's best for us.

00:21:25:14 - 00:21:57:11

Steve

And is it really bringing all the benefits that we want it to bring? So, yeah, for us, or at least for me, being the dominant is I constantly trying to make sure that even though I am expressing all these needs and kind of like directing my sexual energy in the way that I want to, is that healthy for my submissive, intimate doing the things that she needs to to feel like she's also benefiting and feeling like it's a great thing that we have between each other.

00:21:57:12 - 00:22:24:18

Steve

I had mentioned that we have had arguments, as I think everybody does, and if we are engaged in something like that, it leads to a drop out of the dynamic that said drop or damn drop, whatever. Whatever happens, we kind of get off of our rhythm and the conversation can come up when we're feeling insecure or I'm feeling insecure.

00:22:25:00 - 00:22:49:22

Steve

Is is are we doing the right thing and can we go back? Can we go back? Like if we were to just say we're done with our dynamic, can we just go back to having a normal relationship? I say normal, but a monogamous marriage that is looked at by the outside world as being totally normal. It's a difficult question to ask.

00:22:49:22 - 00:23:13:06

Steve

I'm personally not too concerned about it. I said that we have always had this magnetic attraction that no matter what happens, no matter if we have a fight or if we break up, or if we start dating other people, and then we realize that we need to see each other again. Whenever we do see each other again, we are back to where we were.

00:23:13:06 - 00:23:28:16

Steve

So I think making sure the dynamic that I've created in that she's joined in with me in doing is is it our, in our best interest? That's the that's the safety concern that I have from my perspective. Yeah.

00:23:28:18 - 00:23:58:01

Luna

I totally hear that. And I love that thoughtfulness. And also what I've noticed from talking to people who are in air quotes, normative vanilla relationships is that they're usually is some sort of unspoken dynamic with unspoken agreements, even if it's just like history of how the pattern has been. And they're often, you know, every relationship is some kind of power exchange off and on, you know, in a conversation, we are switching back and forth.

00:23:58:01 - 00:24:19:12

Luna

We're listening. We're hopefully actively co-creating an experience together, you know? And so it sounds like you two, regardless of where things go, are just developing open communication skills that I imagine benefit your connection, you know, even if it's not always easy. Right? What what long term relationship is? I haven't talked to anyone that was like, piece of cake.

00:24:19:12 - 00:24:21:12

Luna

Every day.

00:24:21:13 - 00:24:26:13

Steve

I agree with that. I just, I think that I don't know.

00:24:26:15 - 00:24:48:18

Luna

Well, I would also love to hear maybe specifically because before we started recording, you know, you revealed to me that in terms of like, skill building for specific things like rope, right? Which we have to be very careful of nerves and circulation and the comfort of a submissive. It sounded like you are also like learning how to safely play with the things that you're bringing into your dynamic.

00:24:48:20 - 00:25:09:08

Luna

From workshops, you mentioned doing research before diving into contracts, so I see that as part of like health and safety as well. And I'm also wondering now about come play like, are you able to are you in a position where there is some sort of like birth control or like a comfort with the calm, or do you put it in certain places, like what do you consider when it comes to that sort of stuff?

00:25:09:10 - 00:25:14:12

Steve

I got myself a vasectomy after our third child. Yeah.

00:25:14:17 - 00:25:17:03

Luna

Hot. Amazing. Oh, congratulations. That's a.

00:25:17:03 - 00:25:38:11

Steve

Fun. Yeah, I mean, I, I love it. I that's exactly what I wanted. It was a funny story, but I don't know if it's a sex story story, but just getting the procedure done was kind of funny that you couldn't get it done at a Christian facility, is what I was told by the doctor. So I had to do it offsite.

00:25:38:11 - 00:26:05:13

Steve

But then you could have it reversed at a Christian facility because that's what bringing, you know, you're you're getting brought back into the fold by reversing it. But no, I am very for male contraception. You like getting it done. What for me is a freeing and liberating thing. I don't want to have any more children. And it does just open up the whole world because, yes, I love to put it everywhere.

00:26:05:13 - 00:26:29:06

Steve

I love to put my cum everywhere on my submissive. I want it everywhere, even like. And I think that's led to some issues because she doesn't always want it everywhere. She knows that that you know, like the worship like it. That's what's going to make me feel like I am appreciated and worshiped. So she knows how to do it.

00:26:29:06 - 00:26:54:12

Steve

But she's a person and she doesn't need to say yes to having it everywhere all the time. But she also loves it as well. She certain places more than others. But for me it's just like I that's my thing. I and I think I'm in some ways claiming her in some ways I just love to see it all over her, like it is just a hot thing for me that I really enjoy.

00:26:54:14 - 00:27:15:15

Luna

That is amazing and makes me so happy to hear. Okay, so getting more explicitly sexy if you had to rate yourself on a sexual shame meter with ten being the most full of shame and zero being like, I do not have any, where do you fall today and when? If ever, has your shameful coaster wiggled up and down?

00:27:15:17 - 00:27:49:23

Steve

I'm very low on the shame meter. I think due to the person who I am am right now that I would be around a one. Okay. And I think the only reason there's any little bit of shame there is simply from social pressure from other people and just knowing that not everybody out there is wanting to shout from the rooftops what their sexuality is and what they're into, and that there's so much judgment out there.

00:27:50:01 - 00:28:07:20

Steve

It hurts me to like, think about it, because that's all I want to talk about, and I want to talk about it with everybody. I want to talk about it with friends. I want to talk about it with like, parents, like not. And I don't want to, like, go deep diving with my parents because I know they would have a crazy reaction.

00:28:07:20 - 00:28:29:14

Steve

But I just want to be open with everybody, coworkers. And I know that leads to a whole can of worms. So just like I want to just let it out and just talk about it constantly and I can't. And I think maybe there's a little shame in that, that I just know I can't quite fully express whenever I want to.

00:28:29:16 - 00:29:03:02

Steve

And I think I've always had a special place for religion in my life. I come from an interesting background where, my mother is a Protestant and my grandparents were Catholic, and I have Jewish family, and I've always been involved in holidays from all of those different families. I've been to church for all of the or whatever, you know, synagogue.

00:29:03:02 - 00:29:44:23

Steve

I've been to religious services from so many different religions. I went to Catholic high school and took religion class there. So I've kind of always had different experiences with religion, but I've always been a nonbeliever. I've always been agnostic. I've always felt like an outsider looking in and observing other people experience their religion. So I've kind of seen the Catholics team, and I've looked at kind of the rigidity of being Protestant and of the that I don't know how much Judaism has influenced me.

00:29:44:23 - 00:30:10:05

Steve

In fact, I think that part of my family, they were probably the most open bunch out of out of all of them. But just like looking at all these different people get really affected by religion to me was always disheartening for me, seeing that there feeling some sort of shame from whatever external influence they want to say, they're feeling it from or experiencing it from.

00:30:10:06 - 00:30:28:04

Steve

Not that it's their fault or anything, but just being able to avoid that and look at things as an outsider for me, has always been a big part of my life. Like, I enjoy being kind of, I always want to say I feel like I'm above it. I'm not above it. I just have never been a part of it.

00:30:28:06 - 00:30:30:11

Steve

Never been a part of my personality. Yes.

00:30:30:11 - 00:30:51:20

Luna

Well, it is so interesting to me to hear that even though you, in your upbringing, had these strong religious influences, unlike some other people I've spoken with, it just didn't stick. And there there are like swaths of humans who have that and you said you remember like, just always feeling like an owl. It's like it was a feeling like that's not for me.

00:30:51:20 - 00:30:59:07

Luna

Or like, okay, that's a story. It doesn't really apply. Like, how did you can you articulate how it didn't stick on you?

00:30:59:09 - 00:31:23:15

Steve

I just I never I never believed, I never believed in the higher power or it's there that it's not really concerned with us. Pascal, the philosopher, would say that's a bad way to be. You should just force yourself to believe just in case there's a habit so you could get it right lol. Okay, wow. Just in case. Just in case.

00:31:23:15 - 00:31:57:21

Steve

Yeah, but I like it. I've just I've always sat in the church and I enjoy learning. I enjoy learning religion. I enjoyed going to Catholic high school because it was fun to learn about religion, but I've always just sat in church and looked around at everybody and looked at all the statues or the, you know, in the Catholic Church, they had all the stained glass windows and admired kind of the beauty of everything and, really enjoyed the, the ritual of everything.

00:31:57:21 - 00:32:08:01

Steve

But for me, it was always something that just seemed like it didn't really influence me at all. It just never sucked me in. Wow.

00:32:08:03 - 00:32:37:14

Luna

I think for me, it's just so hard to believe that a god, this God concept who's supposedly the ultimate creator, the original creator, would have anything against our original creativity that is sex. Like, I'm like, all of creation is literally sex and procreation, you know? So I think that's where kind of the disconnect lies for me. I love hearing that you have that appreciation.

00:32:37:14 - 00:32:54:12

Luna

So I would love to hear next in the circumstances of your upbringing, what was her sex education like? Like take us through your personal timeline, maybe starting with when you first remember hearing about it. Did you get a sex ed in a Catholic school? Like, what was all of that like? Did you get to talk at home? Tell us.

00:32:54:12 - 00:32:55:20

Luna

Tell us what you remember.

00:32:55:22 - 00:33:30:08

Steve

I definitely don't think we got anything at Catholic school. This was Catholic high school. I went to, just regular, regular colloquial or public school for my younger years. And we did receive kind of the basic. It wasn't the separation. We didn't separate girls from boys, but we did have kind of it was it's funny because it's one it was one of the students moms come in to do the talk, and I forget if she was a nurse or whatever, but I just remember it was very basic.

00:33:30:10 - 00:34:02:11

Steve

It wasn't, a abstinence lesson. And it had, you know, kind of the scientific birds and the bees aspect to it. But the moment that sticks out of my head is the moment that the mother of the kid takes out the, like, English cucumber in the condom and demonstrated how to put a condom on. And I just remember that student dying because they were watching their mother apply the condom to the cucumber in front of all of their friends and classmates.

00:34:02:13 - 00:34:41:10

Steve

And just that, that really stuck in my head. So we did have. But I think that was one class period out of the entire school career that was dedicated to that. And maybe I remember mis correctly or incorrectly, but that that was the extent of it. And I mentioned that my my mother was is a cool lady who grew up in the 70s and likes to paint herself as being this kind of hippie college kid, but I think she her influence, like I said, she's Protestant.

00:34:41:12 - 00:35:08:09

Steve

She came from kind of a very proper family that has very strict morals and manners, and everything was was taught to be kind of proper. She had a certain aversion to talking about health with me, I think. And, her version of, of having the talk with me was leaving her. What's the book that everybody had from that era?

00:35:08:11 - 00:35:33:04

Steve

The, our bodies, ourselves. So she had a copy of our bodies, ourselves. And I think she left it in a place where she knew that I would see. So I got to discover, like, literally the 70s version of that book and rifle through it as a young man, you know, probably like ten years old. I discovered it for the first time, and I would revisit it wasn't necessarily reading it.

00:35:33:04 - 00:35:57:15

Steve

It was more just like getting that like little pencil drawings and kind of learning anatomy by looking at the detailed drawings that were in there. But it was also exciting for me. And then at some point, so she I grew up being, her only son, although she remarried and, gained a stepbrother out of that. So she remarried.

00:35:57:17 - 00:36:20:10

Steve

Very nice guy. And, all of a sudden getting this brother when I was three years old and when we were. And he's my brother now. He's not my stepbrother. But when we were of age, probably, like 13, 12, 13, they showed us the video. I don't know what video it is. I don't have the title, but it was a very, graphic video actually.

00:36:20:10 - 00:36:43:06

Steve

When I go back and think about it, I think it had like an internal video of penetration, like, okay, the penis in the vagina and shooting semen in the vagina. Like, I may have made the semen part up because maybe that's what I'm into. But like it, it was like it was like an internal view of what was going on.

00:36:43:06 - 00:37:05:08

Steve

And I just remember being in the living room watching this video that my parents said I had to watch with my brother, and I feel like my parents were sitting there too, and there was no conversation. We were just sitting watching like a documentary. It was very educational, but I just remember, like, there was kind of a hold up having that conversation with the parents.

00:37:05:09 - 00:37:08:10

Steve

It didn't happen. Wow.

00:37:08:12 - 00:37:28:16

Luna

That's so interesting. Those are the moments where I'm like what is the emotional context here? Like for me sometimes being observed when I am encountering a new situation and I'm finding myself in freeze mode because I'm like, what are human protocols? What it what will elicit good or bad reaction from people? You know, it's like, and I don't know what to do.

00:37:28:16 - 00:37:38:18

Luna

And so then instead of, you know, having a jumping off point of connection or dialog, I find myself in total freeze mode and then I don't know what to make of it, you know? So.

00:37:38:20 - 00:37:52:23

Steve

I mean, I think I was in freeze mode there because I had an erection and I was, yeah, on the couch. Families around. I'm like, this is strangely arousing and totally really? No way. And maybe I had discovered masturbation at that point. We'll go through.

00:37:53:01 - 00:37:55:00

Luna

That to my next question.

00:37:55:02 - 00:37:56:21

Steve

Yeah, yeah, yeah, like.

00:37:56:23 - 00:38:07:19

Luna

Like masturbation, talking with friends. Like, did you talk with your brother about seeing, like what, what sort of peer discussions or learnings or self-learning did you uncover next?

00:38:07:21 - 00:38:30:06

Steve

Definitely no conversation with my brother. He he was kind of a different kid than me. He was a athlete. And I was kind of his, like, athletic punching bag, like, okay. So like we were we were like in a different social category. Different we related with like over Legos, but that's about Legos and video games. But everything else was people.

00:38:31:17 - 00:38:57:13

Steve

So no, not with my brother and then friends. Not really either. I had a habit of hanging out with the kids that were kind of goofier, like video game kids, and that just wasn't the topic of conversation. And then I heard about all the kind of popular kids that were very popular boys that would be hanging out with the popular girls and all the shenanigans that they were up to.

00:38:57:13 - 00:39:16:13

Steve

But you never really knew what was going on. Like, I always imagine they're playing Spin the Bottle or like all those kind of classic tropes of, you know, what do you do at a party? And that wasn't me. I was wearing sweatpants and turtlenecks and being a goofy kid when I went, this was probably fifth or sixth grade.

00:39:16:21 - 00:39:45:15

Steve

But my first experience that I can recall with being highly aroused and discovering masturbation was and it's kind of strange to think about, but my grandfather gave me a book that is it's a historical fiction book. It's called The Clan of the Cave Bear. And it and I do want to say there's trigger warnings in there.

00:39:45:15 - 00:39:52:12

Steve

It's a very controversial has some controversial scenes in it because it sounds like maybe you're familiar.

00:39:52:14 - 00:40:04:14

Luna

Well, one of my dear friends just borrowed it from a bookshelf at my parents house when we were there. Like a few months, you know, so. And then give it back to me. And so I have it. But I was like, oh my God, I didn't know what was in it, you know?

00:40:04:16 - 00:40:33:18

Steve

Well, just be prepared. It's that I would say the first book is traumatic and not sexy at all. It's about a young homo sapiens woman who is. It starts when she's a girl. She's beautiful. She sounds like this tall, blond, skinny, beautiful woman. And, she gets separated from her people, and she gets, adopted by Neanderthals.

00:40:33:20 - 00:40:57:14

Steve

And all of a sudden, she's the ugly duckling who doesn't fit. And it's how she fit that society. So that whole book, and there's some scenes that involve her being assaulted, sexually. And it's. I know my grandfather, he was a nature person. He knew I love nature. He knew this was. It's a great book. I'm not saying it's a bad book.

00:40:57:14 - 00:41:27:01

Steve

It's fantastic book. Written. But I don't know if I should say the author, but he doesn't mean I've already said the title of the book. She was, written by a woman who just, you could tell knew her stuff. And it's very detailed. And you, you'll get sucked right in. So I highly suggest it. And then once you get done with the first book, she gets separated from the Neanderthals and she's had this horrible, awful childhood growing up with these Neanderthals.

00:41:27:03 - 00:41:59:05

Steve

And then she gets separated and she meets the Homo sapiens man and he's got like a really manly name, and they develop this. So it's a whole series. They develop this romantic relationship where he's basically teaching her what a real, genuine sexual connection is afterwards. So she's only experience kind of abuse, and she just makes this connection with this guy in total private.

00:41:59:06 - 00:42:23:20

Steve

There's no other people around. It's just her in him. And they're stuck in this like, cave and there's just hot, steamy sex scenes where he is in. They're both. It's reciprocal. At first it's just him, but it's this, you know, this female author who's writing who. Her ideal. I don't want to put words into her mouth, but it's his ideal guy.

00:42:23:22 - 00:42:50:06

Steve

Treating a woman like an actual absolute princess. Like that's just treating her the way she wants to be treated. And and it's very graphic and very sexual. And I think it's when I was sitting there as a probably 13 year old, late at night, reading this book, realizing what I've just discovered in it is like hot, steamy sex scenes and reading how graphic it was.

00:42:50:08 - 00:43:15:08

Steve

That's when I discovered, and at least in my recollection, what I could do with my own body. And I do want to just pause real quick. I'll describe what my first masturbation session was like, because it's very funny. I think from my perspective. But I have always been someone who wants to please the woman that I'm with.

00:43:15:14 - 00:43:42:06

Steve

And I think when I and I, it may be weird to kind of dive into my own head, it goes back to when I was just me and my mother, and I'm watching my mother all the time. So I was raised in my first couple of years just by my mother. My father passed when I was very young, and I've always had an attention to how she's feeling and what she's doing, and I think that's kind of carried throughout my life.

00:43:42:06 - 00:44:12:15

Steve

So when I read this book where this guy's paying super close attention to how this woman's feeling and experiencing these sexual things, it just really resonated with me. And I think that's something that's carried throughout my sexual development, is that I'm always kind of focusing on signals and body language and watching specifically women's faces and how they're feeling, and it's just something that I feel like I can I can do amazing and that's different.

00:44:12:15 - 00:44:39:23

Steve

That's like that, that can get discussed later. But what I did was so I read this scene and I started kind of rubbing myself on my bed sheets, and I literally just sat there and in my bed, humped my bedsheet to the point that I came all over my bed sheet. And that was the first time I ejaculated by rubbing it.

00:44:39:23 - 00:45:09:16

Steve

It's funny to think about now, because I rubbed with so much friction that it was like ironing, you know, like. But it was so exciting, so interesting. And I just made a mess out of my bedsheets. And I just remember being surprised, not being ashamed of it, but just like, surprising myself that that happened. I don't remember if I'd seen the video before or after that I mentioned earlier, so I think I knew that it was okay to ejaculate like it wasn't.

00:45:09:18 - 00:45:33:10

Steve

It's just something that I hadn't done as of yet. But once I discovered that I could do that, I earmarked those pages in the book so that I could return to those scenes again and again. And there's probably 2 or 3 scenes or 4 or 5, I don't know, per book. And there's many books in that series, and those I suggest go read them all, because they're really fantastic.

00:45:33:12 - 00:46:00:23

Steve

I think the second or third book she like, gets attracted to another guy. So they like deals with relationship issues and things like that. But the point is, I found those scenes and I just that was my first porn or whatever, smut for me. I would sit there and I would just read the sex scenes over and over again, and I would rub my dick on the bedsheet and I would actually, but I was doing it so much that I eventually got, like, rug burn on my penis.

00:46:01:01 - 00:46:28:17

Steve

Oh, you. So I would do it, and then I would have to stop for like a week because I needed to heal. And so I realized very quickly that even though that was very fine and I enjoyed the sensation, I needed to figure a different way. So I evolved. I evolved my game, and I realized that I could use my hand and more than just use my hand, I needed a lubricant.

00:46:28:17 - 00:46:53:07

Steve

But in my head, the thing that I chose was baby powder. So I started masturbating with baby powder, which is funny now when I think about it, because I enjoy. I actually don't enjoy having a lot of lube on me. Like like liquidy lube. I enjoy dry, I like, I enjoy holding the skin and creating friction that way, like on the muscle rather than actually on the actual skin.

00:46:53:10 - 00:46:55:08

Steve

And that's very important for me.

00:46:55:10 - 00:46:56:01

Luna

I love that.

00:46:56:01 - 00:47:18:23

Steve

Detail. But yeah, I went from like chafing myself on bedsheets to rubbing myself with baby powder. And now that I'm an adult and I have my own kids, I'm like, imagining what it was like to, like, come into my room afterwards and it smells like baby powder or like my sheets are a total mess. Like, what was it like to be on the outside looking in, seeing me develop?

00:47:18:23 - 00:47:43:03

Steve

Because I'm sure there were signs of that. I don't know that it's hilarious to think about. I love, and I notice that after that, like, while I'm doing all that, I enjoy the smell of my own cum. Like, I enjoy the smell of, like, just that. That whatever you want to call it must be just, I don't know, I just enjoyed it.

00:47:43:03 - 00:47:49:13

Steve

It was my my own thing and it and I knew what it smelled like. Yeah. I just I fucking love it.

00:47:49:15 - 00:47:54:10

Luna

When did you start exploring with partners and how. And what do you remember?

00:47:54:12 - 00:48:16:12

Steve

Oh, this is perfect. It leads into my next thing I was not like I said, I was kind of a goofy kid. I think I was well liked, I don't know, but I was certainly not a popular kid, and I had I was shy when I was a kid, I was shy, I was not interested in really talking to girls in any kind of romantic way, and I did.

00:48:16:12 - 00:48:58:11

Steve

No, I think at that point that it was women that I was mainly interested in, but I was terrified to try to actually explore. So I did not physically explore anything with women, at least not until later in sixth grade. But my the next adventure that happens is that we got a doll on the family computer. So I am of the era where as I was a young teen that, AOL, ehm, chat rooms and all those thing, all of a sudden just became available to me on the family computer, which was like in a little room off to the side of the family room.

00:48:58:11 - 00:49:17:11

Steve

So there was like, it wasn't privacy, but it wasn't closely monitored. So I had the ability to just kind of jump on and start chatting with people. And I did the whole like ASL, you know, you know what that means. Age, sex, location. So you would just jump, you would just jump in an AOL chat room, any random chat room.

00:49:17:11 - 00:49:37:04

Steve

You'd be like, hey, I'm looking for, you know, hot chicks or something. And you would say, ask how? Because you wanted people to tell you what their age was, what their sex was, and where their location, which was so dumb because like, it people would just make up whatever they wanted to. And that's what I was doing, is exactly what I would do.

00:49:37:05 - 00:50:04:10

Steve

I got on, I was a young teenager, but all of a sudden in my head, I was a young twentysomething hot dude cruisin for babes, and that was what I was doing. So I was literally on there looking for girls to chat with, and I think I became pretty good at it where I would. And it's funny thinking now, like, I don't know who that guy was talking to.

00:50:04:16 - 00:50:35:08

Steve

Yeah, but head, I'm talking to hot babes and I would get on there and basically start private chats with people that I assumed were women and would have essentially not phone sex, but chat sex with them and get really physical and very explicit and basically mimic kind of some of the language that I was reading in the books that I was just talking about.

00:50:35:08 - 00:51:01:07

Steve

Okay. So like very intimate, very kinky, whatever. Like very, just very sexual, like I was having phone sex on AOL chat rooms with my family in the other room and finding that extremely exciting. I wouldn't say I might have been, like, touching myself while I was doing this, but the goal wasn't necessarily to ejaculate. I'm not going to say it never did.

00:51:01:09 - 00:51:29:14

Steve

Yeah, but, you know, my family was right there. So there was a certain amount of risky excitement that came out of doing that. But I remember very clearly I had it wasn't a girlfriend, but I had a, an older woman that I had regular conversations with. And it was explicit, like we were having phone sex on a regular basis, and I was lying to her and telling her that I was an older person.

00:51:29:21 - 00:51:51:14

Steve

But just I felt very comfortable with having those conversation. It felt empowering for me. It felt like I was doing it well, like it was validating for me. So it was just something that it was a way for me to feel like, yes, I can do this and I'm good at it, and I really enjoyed doing. Yeah.

00:51:51:15 - 00:52:11:16

Steve

AOL was a wild, wild place back then. I just felt very comfortable on there. Okay. And it even got to the point in this, this part's a little strange because I, I had crushes at school, like, I had people that I was interested in. I think it. And at one point during the sixth grade, I did end up going to a party.

00:52:11:16 - 00:52:51:21

Steve

It wasn't like the cool kids party, but it was a, you know, mixed gender party. And we played Spin the Bottle and I did kiss someone, but for me that it was just, like, awkward. It wasn't sexual for me at all. It was just like, you do it because those are the rules of the game. But I remember there was a classmate that I was extremely attracted to, and I attempted to reach out to this person on AOL Instant Messenger, and I started saying some things to her and as far as I as far as the communications back to me, they were being flirt to Lee received.

00:52:51:23 - 00:53:11:15

Steve

Okay. I think it would have been inappropriate if it had been discovered, what I was saying, I was basically propositioning her. We were both super, you know, it would have been, I don't know, I don't want to say it would have been too young, but it just it would have been, you know, it's like if our parents had found out, it would have been a problem.

00:53:11:17 - 00:53:41:01

Steve

But I always had in the back of my head, like I'm saying these things, I feel comfortable saying that I'm excited that there seemed to be received and almost reciprocated. But then I always wondered, like she was one of the more popular girls. Like, I always wonder, like, are they just sitting there like a group of girls? And are they, like, laughing about this like I always had and I don't know, there was never I think if that were the case, I would have heard about it at school.

00:53:41:03 - 00:54:07:13

Steve

Yeah, like it would have come up. So I've always wanted to know, like, was that for real? You know, like I didn't have the guts to say like, let's go to the next level. Wow. But I did enjoy, like, flirting with that, like I flirted with could I in real life, kind of apply some of this knowledge I have to someone that I'm really attracted to?

00:54:07:15 - 00:54:30:08

Luna

Wow. Also, I'm like, it never occurred to me that the popular guy I was instant messaging with might have been sharing with friends, and looking back, I'm like, maybe he did. Now. He did turn into my secret hookup buddy, but that was. But he initiated all of it. Like I, I think now look at him. I would have been so mad if all of those things had been, like, not followed through on too.

00:54:30:10 - 00:54:31:02

Steve

Right?

00:54:31:04 - 00:54:37:01

Luna

I know, I know, teasing has its place, but I am because my brain is so literal. I'm like, we had a plan.

00:54:37:07 - 00:54:43:23

Steve

What do you mean? If it's just for fun, right, you should just go, wow, okay.

00:54:44:00 - 00:54:52:02

Luna

It sounds like there was a lot of confidence in the chatting, though. It sounds like there was a lot of confidence still, like in the words, in the exploration of it.

00:54:52:04 - 00:55:22:06

Steve

It's funny, you know, because. Yes. And I think I'm rediscovering my voice now. I think being dominant and assuming, you know, just I'm a dominant now, like I feel like a dominant and I am now much more comfortable kind of voicing myself in a sexy and fun way. Whereas I think a lot of that got suppressed for a while.

00:55:22:08 - 00:55:45:16

Steve

And I have different theories as to why I feel that way, but I want to get back to that. Like, I almost would like to try writing, and it's funny because they do a little bit on certain websites or certain, social websites that are kinky. I do do some writing and some journaling, and I like to write about experiences I've had.

00:55:46:14 - 00:56:16:04

Steve

But I would love to just. Yeah, like try writing some, maybe even some fiction smut. Just like, really get back to that, like the AOL chat room roots and and see if I still have it, you know. Yeah, I know I have it, but like to just do it, to just do it. But I think my first theory as to what suppress that is the visual is discovering, because what happened next in the house was satellite TV.

00:56:16:06 - 00:56:35:04

Steve

So I lived in a rural area. There was no cable. Yeah. Sam. No. You know, the best I got was like, we'd go to the summer. There was a summer house, we go to the summer house, and the was like the squiggly, squiggly, fuzzed out porn channels. Like, we catch like a boob every three minutes. Yeah, I've.

00:56:35:04 - 00:56:37:00

Luna

Heard of scramble porn.

00:56:37:02 - 00:57:00:19

Steve

Oh, my God, it's hilarious. It did it. It's done it before, you know, like it was. It was good. But my parents got satellite TV, and all of a sudden all these movie channels were available to me and all the, like, goofy softcore productions that comes along with that. And I say goofy just because the acting was like and was always funny to me.

00:57:00:19 - 00:57:24:03

Steve

I think it's supposed to be kind of funny and just regular rated movies that I wasn't allowed to watch. Like, I all of a sudden had everything at my fingertips and I was able to explore my with my visual eye, which I think is what was lacking before that, because my first experience was books. It wasn't. Yeah, the visual.

00:57:24:05 - 00:57:51:16

Steve

And I wonder if that kind of ruined or not ruined, but suppressed the written aspect for me. I remember specific scenes. I remember certain actor, like a lot of it's funny because guys, guys froze, like document boobs that they've seen, they, like, know exactly which boobs they've seen, but, like, I can do that. Like, I know certain foods that I've seen, you know, like, I.

00:57:51:18 - 00:57:53:06

Luna

Sure know.

00:57:53:08 - 00:58:25:23

Steve

They're categorized, you know, but that wasn't always, like, super exciting to me. It's just fun. Like, yes, I've seen so-and-so's boobs, but certain scenes in certain movies stuck out and just, like, opened up my kinky brain to a whole different world of what I was interested in and what was, sexy for me. There is a particular actor named Carrie where, and I don't know if name and saying her last name correctly.

00:58:26:06 - 00:58:48:12

Steve

She did move into, I think, a music career or something after that. But there's this movie called and I think I had different names, but there's one movie title that it's named by called Hit and Run, and it's a shitty movie. It's bad movie. But there's this particular scene where she is playing the role of this kind of badass.

00:58:48:14 - 00:59:17:12

Steve

She's like the criminals girlfriend who's running away from the criminal, and she basically is manipulate this young man to help her escape. So he's got the car, he's helping her escape. But there's this scene where they stop in a motel and she dresses herself in a full body suit. It's funny because it's not a revealing outfit, but it's for me.

00:59:17:12 - 01:00:03:01

Steve

It is just that all black body stocking with sexy black underwear underneath. And she basically plays the role of a dominatrix in this scene where she handcuffs him to the bed. She's dripping hot wax on him. She is rubbing herself all over his crotch and just beating him with, I think she has a crop she's hitting with a crop, and it's something about that scene and her specifically, that outfit that just like it will it won't leave my hair like that embodies a lot of kind of the the type of physical outfit that I'm interested in.

01:00:04:01 - 01:00:37:23

Steve

It's not the only outfit, but it's that that idea that you are dressing yourself in a completely sexual manner and behaving the way she was, that was just sparked something in my head. And it's funny now because I think about it, I'm not I'm not seeking to be dominated like that, like I think the scene itself and what she was doing isn't what I'm actively seeking, but it's it's that idea that she was like a complete sexual in that scene that was extremely attractive to me.

01:00:38:01 - 01:00:51:03

Steve

And dark, sexy, slutty even. It was wild, wild for me. And I had never seen anything like that when I was at that. I had read, but I hadn't seen it.

01:00:51:05 - 01:01:06:02

Luna

I totally get that. For me, witnessing embodied, confident sexuality of a person of either gender, any gender is one of the most erotic and impactful things that I can experience.

01:01:06:04 - 01:01:09:11

Steve

I like yeah, confidence, that confidence.

01:01:09:13 - 01:01:39:16

Luna

Willingness like when someone knows what they want and is willing to get it in a way that is, you know, in collaboration with their partner. But that certainty, too, is what really has allowed me to embrace my own confidence. Right? Like having partners where I got to experience how they held space for me is what helped me discover my own erotic creature and my own confidence.

01:01:39:16 - 01:01:59:13

Luna

And now I love being able to like, create and offer that to my other lovers, you know, and still invite in lovers to my life where I can be fully held so that I can relax too. So I like seeing that, you know, I'm being on either side of that sounds really hot to me. But I'm like, oh yeah, no, I want to drip wax on someone and I want them to drop in on me.

01:01:59:13 - 01:02:01:10

Steve

You know?

01:02:01:12 - 01:02:12:13

Luna

Does that is that when you, like, identified yourself as having kink your proclivities or like, I mean, because this is all still before you've even, like, erotically touched another human being, right?

01:02:12:15 - 01:02:36:14

Steve

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I do think I realized like I liked kind of the that bad. And I think at that point I realized that was bad. You know, like it's not monogamous. Yeah. It's not. Yeah. It's. Yes. It's funny I say the term like woman of the night, which I knows brings like a whole bunch of, like ridiculous connotation with it.

01:02:36:14 - 01:02:53:03

Steve

But it's like that idea, like you are a, it's a purely sexual creature at that moment. You're not a submissive housewife who's doing her duty. Yeah. It's not a religious, you know, experience. It is primal sexual. Okay.

01:02:53:03 - 01:03:07:00

Luna

So do you want to take us into the physical connection, like what unfolded was your first physical experience with your wife now submissive or what? What kind of came first in partner touching?

01:03:07:01 - 01:03:37:02

Steve

Yes. So beyond that kind of first kiss that I mentioned earlier that didn't feel very romantic at all. And of course, you know, kind of a weird situation. Rite of passage, if you will. Yeah, yeah. Yes. I met my current partner in high school. And it's funny because we were both sophomores. We were both attending Catholic high school, but different high school.

01:03:37:02 - 01:04:01:06

Steve

So I went to, an all boys high school, and she did not. But we would host dances at our high school that were kind of the talk of the surrounding area. And women or wimp girls would just flock from everywhere wanting to meet one of, you know, the the boys that went to our school, which were weird experiences.

01:04:01:06 - 01:04:34:07

Steve

So we we met at this dance and I approached like, the girls used to like, dance in these, like, tight circles. And we had they would just like groups of friends that showed up together and like, you'd have to try to, like, get in there somehow to dance or just to say hello and meet somebody. And I think I just started dancing with this girl, and I didn't really know what the hell I was doing, but I know I wanted to meet a girl, so I was attracted to this person.

01:04:34:19 - 01:04:59:08

Steve

Started dancing with her, danced a few dances with her. Which I'm not going to say I was a good dancer, but we did. We danced. I must have impressed her, impressed her enough because we went to the kind of, like, social cafeteria area and started talking, which went, I think went fine. But what's funny about the whole interaction is that I asked her not for her phone number.

01:04:59:08 - 01:05:06:15

Steve

I asked for her AOL screen name because that's what I thought. Yeah, I think that's what I was comfortable with.

01:05:06:18 - 01:05:14:06

Luna

Did you even have I mean, because the phone's back then you didn't necessarily have a cell phone like that, or if you did, it would be really early. Like, it's like the house phone, right?

01:05:14:08 - 01:05:22:13

Steve

It was. It was either house phone or like, I would get the house cell phone right to go out with, you know, for emergency.

01:05:22:13 - 01:05:25:02

Luna

Like a family. So yeah, exactly.

01:05:25:04 - 01:05:28:03

Steve

But that wasn't the number. You get that you get the house.

01:05:28:03 - 01:05:31:12

Luna

But, I remember.

01:05:31:14 - 01:05:58:23

Steve

I didn't have the guts to ask for the number, so I didn't want to have to talk on the phone. I wanted to be able to sit there and type and think about what I was going to say. But when, like, one thing led to another, another. And we ended up dating and we met, I remember the first date I had my brother drive me to pick her up in the family minivan and went to a movie, Bewitched, which is another horrible movie.

01:05:59:01 - 01:06:18:14

Steve

Maybe some people like it. I don't know, but it wasn't very interesting to me. I was more interested in this girl who I was on a first date with is my first real date I'd ever been on, and we're in a movie, so we're not really like talking to each other. We're just kind of next to each other.

01:06:18:16 - 01:06:45:01

Steve

And we had spoken on line quite a bit, so I like I felt comfortable knowing who she was, and I think she knew who I was as much as you can at that surface level. And I made the like classic movie moves with her. We're like putting my arm around her and just experiencing that, like really electric, physical touch of touching a leg.

01:06:45:03 - 01:07:06:07

Steve

I think she was just wearing jeans on that day, so, you know, it was. And I had no intention of doing more touching than just touching a leg or touching a shoulder. But I got the guts to kiss her, and I kind of. I was a big guy back then. I was like I said, I'm a larger person, but I was like football player, big guy.

01:07:06:09 - 01:07:35:21

Steve

And I pulled her in and I started kissing her in the movie. And that was, for me, my first sexual exciting touch. And I was so into it and we were just kissing, kissing. And at one point she pushes away from me and says, you need to stop pulling me in so tight because you're crushing me against the armrest of the chair.

01:07:35:22 - 01:07:56:23

Steve

I was so into it that I was trying to pull her so close to me that it was squishing her into the armrest of the chair, and I didn't even realize it. I was just so excited that. So I obviously wasn't reading her cues at that moment, I think because I was so intoxicated, so in my own head that I, yeah, squished her.

01:07:57:01 - 01:08:03:18

Steve

So that was my first physical experience and it was amazing. It was great.

01:08:03:20 - 01:08:23:13

Luna

So from there, when did you start getting sexy with a partner? Like what? What have you learned from the evolution? It sounds like you guys were together, had other partnership a little bit and now have like reconnected. So take us through whatever highlights feel relevant. You know first time not not the first or the most important, but they're often formative.

01:08:23:13 - 01:08:33:08

Luna

And you know, and then tell us how you got like we heard a little bit about how you got kinky, but tell us about moving into kink whenever it feels good.

01:08:33:10 - 01:08:42:18

Steve

Yeah, I know, I feel like I could just go through like every single sexual encounter with this particular person, with my partner. Amazing.

01:08:42:20 - 01:08:55:18

Luna

Do you just document it in your head or do you like, is it just up here or do you like. I remember a lot of stuff because I or a sexy journal a lot like when I have experiences. But is yours just cataloged in your brain?

01:08:55:19 - 01:09:04:10

Steve

I'm not going to say I'm like, photographic. But you have like, I think the ones that stick out to me the most stick in my head for sure. Yeah.

01:09:04:11 - 01:09:07:13

Luna

There's a lot of vivid description in your speech.

01:09:07:15 - 01:09:15:15

Steve

Yeah, yeah. And I do want to go through, I think like I just described my first kiss. Kiss. Maybe that wasn't the most exciting sexual, but.

01:09:15:20 - 01:09:16:21

Luna

I love it.

01:09:16:23 - 01:09:46:01

Steve

I loved it too. There was a few dates later that I just brought her to my parents house, and we have woods out back. That you? It's very private. And I told my parents we're going to go for a walk. And we went out into the woods and we were making out, kissing, kissing. And I decided that I was going to put my hands down her pants and explore something that I had never done before.

01:09:46:01 - 01:10:11:03

Steve

And she was just reading the cues was extremely ready for me to do that, and I can just remember every single kind of inching down her stomach. And the way I use my hand to, as it were, kissing the whole time just bases against each other and just were standing in the woods and I'm pushing my big hand just down.

01:10:11:03 - 01:10:42:08

Steve

And I just remember, like like I knew exactly what I was doing. Just pushing her panties down with the back of my hand and just feeling that wetness for the first time and just feeling something I never touched before. But it was making me so absolutely aroused and just putting one finger very just gently and delicately on the outside and just feeling how amazing it was.

01:10:42:10 - 01:11:08:14

Steve

But I that sticks in my head and I do like to, like, bring that up while we're having sex now. Like, I like to I like to tell stories of things like that while we're in the middle of having sex. And it brings us back. I think it brings me back. Yeah, I think it raises a level of excitement by bringing up those details, because they are there right in my head.

01:11:08:16 - 01:11:28:07

Luna

To me, that is so I think that's romantic. I mean, I'm always trying to figure out what is romantic, but like, to me, the level of attention, the storytelling, the remembering of the detail and using that to connect in a present physical moment. I think that is so beautifully hot. I think I would call that romantic. Like, that's because it's so personal.

01:11:28:07 - 01:11:30:00

Luna

It's so personal.

01:11:30:02 - 01:11:53:08

Steve

Yeah. No, that was a big that was a big moment. And I'm I hope that romance. It's something cool. Yeah. And then and then we moved on. We just can we kept progressing. And I knew back then I had an absolute love of blowjobs. Like. And I had discovered porn at that point, which I also think, like the movies.

01:11:53:10 - 01:12:20:12

Steve

It's like it's almost like too stimulating. But I just, I knew I knew, knew, knew that I wanted blowjobs. I wanted her mouth on my penis constantly. Like, I just it's something about watching someone please me. It's something about the feeling of it. It's just knowing that it is an act of service that is meant for my pleasure.

01:12:20:14 - 01:12:49:17

Steve

I was addicted to not only touching her, but being touched by her, and I think it at some point caused us strive just because, like my desire was so intense, like I just I had it and desire to constantly be exploring and doing it. And she was a willing participant. But I think like she she would be sick and I'd be like, well, are you well enough to do this right?

01:12:49:19 - 01:13:03:03

Steve

And for her, that was like ridiculous. Like, no, I don't feel well, I'm sick. And I wasn't being considerate of the other person, but I just I knew that that's what I wanted all the time. Yeah, yeah.

01:13:03:05 - 01:13:19:18

Luna

I mean, it's finding a balance, right? Like, it's just as easy to on the side of never asking for needs to be met. And, you know, hopefully we have partnerships that can weather the discomfort of like, no, idiot, don't ask right now, or hopefully it's set in a nicer way. And then we learn. We calibrate.

01:13:19:20 - 01:13:44:04

Steve

Yeah. But even if it's not, at least that way. Yeah yeah yeah. But yes. So I said and we kept progressing. So I think we moved on. I like to explore her with my mouth. I was encouraging her to explore me with my mouth. I would ask her in the most inopportune times, like we'd be in the car with like my mom driving up front and I'd want her to be touching me.

01:13:44:06 - 01:14:08:05

Steve

So I was just like, it's to the point of being unreasonable, you know, like, but I would just I couldn't and I didn't really have shame about it. Like, if I had gotten caught, I would have had shame about it. And it's funny because thinking back on it, like she was pretty much gay like that, we had some close call exciting experiences, probably at the expense of my mom.

01:14:08:05 - 01:14:37:16

Steve

I feel bad about stuff like that, but it was. It was almost like being an exhibitionist. Like I was excited to just like, do it whenever, wherever. And then I think in our discussions we decided to progress to having sex and I think it was a nice experience. I'm not going to go into crazy detail about it because it was also awkward and I think painful for her.

01:14:37:18 - 01:15:01:04

Steve

I'm not going to see I'm a gigantic person, but I've got a decent sized penis. But we did enjoy the intimate experience of it. Like we still talk about it. So the first time I'm not going to say it was like this amazing magical experience. It was awkward and but I think once it happened it just that was the floodgates had opened at that point.

01:15:01:04 - 01:15:11:17

Steve

Then we were open to having sex constantly and having sex outside, having sex in her bedroom, having sex wherever we could wait.

01:15:11:18 - 01:15:15:00

Luna

Like outside. Like the words like where?

01:15:15:02 - 01:15:44:17

Steve

Yeah, yeah, outside in the woods. Outside in fields. To this day, that's something we enjoy. I'm not going to say it happens all the time. And I think the reason that it maybe does now is because it's harder for her to climax outside. But we still do. We still fool around outside and we just don't. We're not going on dates as much because we've got kids and but yeah, everywhere.

01:15:44:18 - 01:16:17:06

Steve

And then yes, during those high school years, we had a couple break ups where we both kind of explored other people. I don't know if that's where my focus is. So like with those other people, it's yeah, it's funny. I enjoy that. I got to experience other people and just kind of understand that there are so many different people out there and that everybody is so very much different in how the way they like to be pleased and pleased.

01:16:17:06 - 01:16:21:09

Steve

Me so that was a valuable experience, I think.

01:16:21:11 - 01:16:40:12

Luna

Yeah, totally. But it also, this whole experiment that we're engaging in right now is about unpacking your own personal wisdom. And sometimes the wisdom is like I discovered, I want my partner, you know, I discovered that I'm the most magnetically attracted to my submissive who is my life partner.

01:16:40:18 - 01:16:41:08

Steve

Yeah.

01:16:41:10 - 01:17:13:04

Luna

So I would love to hear. In the years that followed, you know, you explored with other people, you got back together. What, if anything, feels important to share about the time before you got into the clear discussions around kink and then how has your sex life changed since bringing kink into it? You know, we heard a little bit about the frameworks, but I would love to hear specifics, you know, both physical and the connection quality of the relationship.

01:17:13:06 - 01:17:39:06

Steve

Yeah. So I think I mentioned I love Come play, I love blowjobs, I love like I had certain things that I just, I knew that I loved. And I did have certain other partners that just gave me different experiences there. I was like, well, like there's so many different and unusual things out there, but I want I wanted them from this person.

01:17:39:06 - 01:18:00:02

Steve

I wanted them from my partner. Yeah. Obviously I don't want her to be a different person, but I just like, I just knew there was so much for us to explore. Having all of those other experiences made it so that that I could feel like it was okay to desire those things, feel like it was possible to be given those things.

01:18:00:07 - 01:18:41:14

Steve

And after we had our couple breaks, it also became difficult for me. I think we knew that the relationship we had was heading towards a marriage because we were both had very traditional backgrounds. It was a trust situation where I think she wanted me to propose to her and get married, and I wasn't sure that she was dead set on me, because we had had kind of breaks that were generally, in my perspective, started by her wanting to take a break.

01:18:41:14 - 01:18:58:14

Steve

That was often the terminology is is taking a break. And she would explore with other people. So I would say, oh, we're on a break and I would go explore with other people. So I think when it came to marriage, I said, I told her, if you want to get married, that you need to propose to me. And that's how it happened.

01:18:58:14 - 01:19:36:04

Steve

She ended up proposing to me and we got married. And that's how I knew that she was serious and wanted it to be monogamous, and wanted to make it official and be with me forever. So yeah, it's just a reversal of tradition. I love that. I think what's important is during our time, like we have a loving relationship, but during that time we fell into a marriage right where I had a lot of sexual needs and she had a lot of emotional needs.

01:19:36:06 - 01:20:04:18

Steve

And our love languages weren't matching and we weren't communicating about it, or the communication that was coming out was heated and, full of emotion, and it was just leading to strife between us. And I think what's funny now is like being a dominant now and thinking about how I behave now that I have assumed this role, that I, that I identify with, that that is me.

01:20:04:20 - 01:20:25:05

Steve

I wasn't being dominant during those portions of our marriage where it felt like I was being like a spiteful kid, and my mom just asked me to do too many chores, and I was crumbling onto my breath because I didn't feel like I was getting I wanted. But I was still expected to just be part of this marriage relationship.

01:20:25:07 - 01:20:49:03

Steve

Yeah, well, and as much as that, I didn't feel like my needs were being that I think my wife also was feeling that her needs were being met. So it's interesting when we decided to, embark on this transition and I read a number of books before I decided to kind of even broach this question to her was to kind of make this jump like I remember it.

01:20:49:04 - 01:21:13:02

Steve

It's very funny. We had, canoe ride and I actually videotaped some of it, which was I was taking pictures of her because she looked beautiful in a canoe. So I'm taking these kind of sexy upskirt photos of her sitting on a canoe. We're facing each other out on this beautiful lake. And I remember I am proposing this idea.

01:21:13:04 - 01:21:35:12

Steve

I said, I've been doing this research, and I've decided that I'd like to try a dominant submissive relationship and I don't think I said 24 over seven at that moment. And I don't know if I exactly knew that's what I meant. I was listening to podcasts, I was doing reading, so I knew what they were. But I didn't know it was right for us.

01:21:36:00 - 01:22:00:03

Steve

But I remember just having a very kind of frank conversation. Maybe that was our first contract meeting was out on this canoe while and taking photos of her. And she knows I'm taking she's watching me take photos of her being kind of bashful. And it was just it magic, beautiful moment where we are going to embark on a new adventure.

01:22:00:03 - 01:22:23:21

Steve

And it was roughly around kind of like Covid times. So things were crazy. The timeline. I can't keep the timeline straight in my head, but things were, you know, things were tumultuous and we're having this conversation like, we've been married for over ten years. Do we want to try this new, exciting thing? And we're both kind of like tingly saying, yes.

01:22:23:21 - 01:22:49:15

Steve

We're going to explore a dynamic together and see where it takes us. Super exciting, super exciting. And it allowed me to feel like I could be an active member in the relationship and kind of designing it, rather than just letting it steamroll, as maybe that's what I've felt for a long time, is that we're just becoming older, married people.

01:22:49:17 - 01:23:15:21

Steve

Yes. Now we get to examine it. We get to make it work for us. We get to express ourselves. And while I may not get every single mean need met that I want every single moment of my life, the amount of exploration that we've done together because of this is amazing. Absolutely amazing.

01:23:15:23 - 01:23:48:09

Luna

I love that so much. And I hear so often that the momentum of marriage, of life or whatever, you know, does create space where there isn't necessarily active co-creation or collaboration because it's just following the norms in the hustle and bustle of life. And I would love to hear specifically any like standout moments from your experiences since entering this dynamic together that, you know, leave you feeling sparkly and or any other aspects of the dynamic that just light you up?

01:23:48:17 - 01:24:19:17

Steve

I'll be selfish at first because I just wanted certain kinky things for myself. Specifically, I wanted to videotape things I wanted to explore, press play, I wanted to explore, come play. And I the thing that sticks out for me the most is the come play. Because I. And it always been a desire of mine. She had always known independent desire of mine.

01:24:19:23 - 01:24:50:04

Steve

And years before we had decided on the dynamic. We had gone on vacation once and we had kids at the time with us. But we had space enough that I decided I was going to have a very careful conversation with her about why, like why what was so interesting for me about it and why I wanted it so much with her because I think she immediately assumed it was degradation.

01:24:50:14 - 01:25:22:01

Steve

Which is not into at least not extreme degradation, and that it was me objectifying her in a way that was not good. And I had like, I created a whole argument in reasons as to how and why it was so important to me. And we had a very good conversation, I think, sitting out on like a balcony and just having this really kind of fun, sexy conversation where I'm basically convincing her to say that it's not that bad, that I want it.

01:25:22:03 - 01:26:06:16

Steve

And she did actually let me do it that vacation. But it was like very much in the context of what I think of, like traditional marriage, where you are kind of rewarded with these magical experiences only as like a rare gift, like, on our anniversary or on Valentine's Day, like, and and we had done that for years where I just expected this amazing experience without communicating with her, that that one time that I just spoke of ended up working out very well because I communicated so carefully with her, but so much on a regular basis.

01:26:06:18 - 01:26:32:09

Steve

I expected, like the magic in the bedroom that happens on Valentine's Day once a year without any communication. And when it doesn't happen exactly the way I thought it would happen, that it was kind of a letdown or if I put so much pressure on her to make it happen that day. Which is funny because it's me putting pressure on her rather than we're both making a scene happen.

01:26:32:11 - 01:26:52:12

Steve

She feels too much pressure and it turns into something that it shouldn't be. You know, I don't want to make a broad generalization, but it's a very common thing. Yeah. For us to do that, to like, make, you know, what happens on Valentine's Day is this amazing thing. And it just puts a lot of pressure on everybody and upset and unhappy.

01:26:52:14 - 01:27:24:19

Steve

So the dynamic bring us back to the original question. For me, being able to express all these things has allowed us to really just do that on a much more casual basis. And I mentioned earlier that I had like big contracts, that big, kind of like bulky thing with like a list of rules and a list of kind of do's and don'ts and kinks and, and things that would be good or things that would be bad.

01:27:24:21 - 01:27:47:04

Steve

At least in doing that, I was able to express what I want and we could do it on a much more casual basis where there was much less pressure. I think I also want to talk about the fact that I designed the contract by reading all these blogs, looking at other people, looking at other Doms and what they do.

01:27:47:13 - 01:28:18:19

Steve

And after going through kind of like a hardcore contract like that, we came to an understanding to our meetings that it wasn't quite servicing us the way that I think it does with other dynamics. So in this may be controversial to some people, but what I just talked about with Valentine's Day, like, even when we're deciding that we're going to have playtime, it's almost works against us to one have too many rules.

01:28:18:21 - 01:28:54:20

Steve

Yeah. And two to plan too much. I know a lot of people like to plan things very explicitly and I, and I understand that especially if you are meeting new people and you need to make sure the boundaries are very clear and set. Totally. But coming from our relationship where we know each other and we trust each other and we have had so much sex without a plan, like we have just had years and years and years of sex where there is no plan.

01:28:54:22 - 01:29:19:09

Steve

I think as long as we are aware of kind of our hard limits, yes, things tend to work better if we don't overplay in our scenes. And I think that's the same thing that happened to the contract, is the contract just was trying too much to be something else and got exploded. So we ended up dialing way back, and now we really just have kind of a set of principles to live by.

01:29:19:09 - 01:29:47:11

Steve

There are some certain rituals that are expected every day. Like what? So what? Yeah. What is kind of survive? The cut is what I like to think about, is that there's a nightly submission from my sub who is going to prepare herself for bed. It's it's I at my. I really am like a daddy Dom. I take care of her.

01:29:48:02 - 01:30:09:19

Steve

And then she takes care of me, in the ways that I need to be taken care of. So I am very much making sure that she is. She's a professional person, and she needs to shut down at some point. You know, whether it's the nights, whether it's the weekends, whether it's vacations. So my job is to help her get there.

01:30:09:21 - 01:30:35:08

Steve

So the nightly submission where she gets herself ready, whether it's for bed or for play, and she kneels and we have a script that we say to each other like it's just a mist or whatever you want to say. It's a saying that we say to each other. She says something to me, I say something back to her, and that's developed over time.

01:30:35:08 - 01:31:01:01

Steve

But I think we're pretty set on where we are now. And she has her head at my kind of criteria. Doesn't sound very romantic to say criteria, but she's kneeling in front of me. But it's just a nightly ritual where she submits to me, and I then either help her to bed or we play and back and that's awesome sex and do great things.

01:31:01:01 - 01:31:18:23

Steve

And then I put her to bed. And then I either come to bed with her or not. But yeah, we we make sure we're meeting each other's needs. And I think that's what's really important about where we developed. That is so fucking beautiful.

01:31:18:23 - 01:31:53:22

Luna

And like, hot, erotic and sweet. And I am just so glad to hear that you both had the shared mutual wisdom to be like, actually, too much structure is, you know, suffocating this connection, and we actually don't need that much. And I think every aspect requires something different, right? Like, I know that from myself, if I like, I like to know that I might get peed on in a certain week or month, like, and I like to have, like, certain things planted.

01:31:54:00 - 01:32:19:06

Luna

But ultimately, I am such a big fan of staying in the energy of the now, in the mutual co-creation. And it sounds like you together have discovered a way to do that on a regular basis that's integrated with and supportive of the lives that you lead together. And putting her to bed is so hot and sweet, and I've never thought about that before.

01:32:19:06 - 01:32:25:07

Luna

And now I'm like, I want that. That's cute. That's romantic. I think that's romantic.

01:32:25:09 - 01:32:50:09

Steve

It's funny because she's not a lit like she's not a little, you know, not putting to bed like a little. No, no, no her. And it is funny, you know, it took some work to get to that spot because I think looking at all the other dogs out there, all the daddy Doms, all the, you know, like classic old school leather doms, like all the all the masters.

01:32:50:11 - 01:33:20:19

Steve

For me, I kind of had to check myself because I can turn into this, like, stern and stoic person who wants to punish and, like, uphold the law. And, and I think I had to really kind of take a deep breath and take a step back when I was losing sight of taking care of her because I did or I do from time to time, get a little pissy, you know, like, I get a little, like, too rough and too hard.

01:33:20:21 - 01:33:43:19

Steve

Not rough, like, physical. But I'm saying, like, I get turned into this stoic guy and I stop talking and I want to be like, the dog is dumb that I can be. And it doesn't really work for our our dynamic. So I do have to come to grips with the fact that I'm not that traditional image of what you would think a dog is like.

01:33:43:19 - 01:34:07:16

Steve

I've had to, and I think that's what's really different for me, is that I have to make it work for our relationship. I'm not interested in. It's not like if I don't if if she's not doing all the things on the checklist that I'm just going to go find a different submissive, this is my person. Like you are developed in something together.

01:34:07:16 - 01:34:29:20

Steve

So I had to check myself and say, what am I doing to make sure I I'm still that person that I want to be, that I'm also meeting her needs as well. So it's been interesting because I've got to keep that that angle in mind that we don't want to go seeking other people like that. We are together.

01:34:30:01 - 01:34:32:15

Steve

So what what works and what makes sense.

01:34:32:17 - 01:34:56:10

Luna

I am so with you and I am truly in all of your wisdom. And I'm just like feeling just the warm, fuzzy, kinky inspiration as I hear you talk. So I am just awash in gratitude. I would love to hear if there's anything else in the notes that you made, because I know you prepared that feels like needs to be shared for this portion of your story.

01:34:56:16 - 01:35:02:12

Luna

Knowing and understanding that perhaps at some point will come back to talk about porn and other things before we transition.

01:35:02:14 - 01:35:28:23

Steve

Well, you mentioned getting you want to know whether you're getting peed on or not, which I totally perceive. It's funny because I mentioned, I mentioned this play, and that's something I'm very interested in. I'm fascinated with watching her paint. So like, even in our kind of vanilla marriage. And before that, I love to watch her. I love watching her be we would we still do, but more so when we were younger.

01:35:28:23 - 01:36:10:00

Steve

We had a lot and we're we're getting back out there now. But like, I love watching her pee outside. Like, I just something really kind of primal and intimate about watching a woman crouch down and get over the fact that they're outside and not sitting on the toilet and just letting it go and being out in nature, and whether or not there's something to wipe with or not, you know, like either she'll have a little tissue that she can clean up with and bury, or she'll just take her back and try to get whatever she can off and then just deal with the rest.

01:36:10:00 - 01:36:36:07

Steve

But just like it is profoundly sexual for me, and I don't necessarily know why, part of it's just seeing her vagina, but part of it is also seeing the mechanics of how things work. And part of it is I also enjoy watching her wet herself. Like I enjoy watching getting the yoga pants wet. Yeah, and he's wet having an accident, but on purpose.

01:36:36:07 - 01:36:55:01

Steve

Obviously for me, like, I don't I don't think about it like in like the little sense like, oh, I had an accident. Like, yeah, like you're doing it and you want me to see it that sexy to me and I want to see it. So I enjoy recording her peeing. I like taking pictures. I did bring up the suggestion.

01:36:55:01 - 01:37:17:22

Steve

Like, maybe you could try having me, like doing more, like having me pee on her. And we're we're discussing that it's not something I necessarily know I want to do. Okay. But maybe it's something to try. But yeah, like watching everything about her peeing. I don't know if I want her to pee on me. I mean, I don't think I'd have a problem with it, but I don't know if it's, like, that would be extra for me.

01:37:17:22 - 01:37:25:09

Steve

Like extra good, or if it would just be something. But I would try for sure. But yeah, that's I just wanted to specify.

01:37:25:14 - 01:37:44:05

Luna

Okay, I love that specification because it helps me realize. But I also actually don't need or require warning if a partner just wants to just wants to pee on me in the shower. Like if we're showering together and they pee on me like that to me is silly, sweet and fun. It's more so if it's like, I guess it is like ritualistically degrading.

01:37:44:05 - 01:38:14:18

Luna

And I also because my piss play experiences in some instances have included like partners peeing in my mouth like I want the whole water. I want to know what they're drinking. I want to know that they're preparing for like, I want to mentally prepare and not just have that sprung up on me, you know? So and that's that's something that I would only want to do at this point with a more trusted connection, because I did try it a couple times with someone I had just met, and that didn't end up feeling good for me.

01:38:14:20 - 01:38:25:05

Luna

Any other specifics of like kinky things, bondage stuff? Come play specifics that we didn't get that just feel important to mention.

01:38:25:07 - 01:38:35:04

Steve

I mean, I could talk forever about come play think that's like really where I settle I, I love doing I.

01:38:35:06 - 01:39:00:13

Steve

Yeah I could, I could like I said, I could put it anywhere and I just over and over again, it's funny. You know, I forgot to mention there is one thing about my formative experience being in college. And this can go a long if if we do do an update on on porn. I took a class with this like young hot professor from a much better.

01:39:00:13 - 01:39:34:17

Steve

She was from a much better college and she was just an adjunct professor, and she was teaching a class on visuality, and it was all about what who is viewing and who is being viewed and going through, the philosophy of that, the mechanics of that, the history of that. And it dealt with, how in gendered that is, in how women have, you know, classically been viewed, whereas men have classically been the viewer.

01:39:34:19 - 01:39:53:11

Steve

But we talked about everything in that class, and she had these hip arm tattoos and thick glasses and long, straight hair, and she was just like a really. You could tell she was just super cool. I think she may have even been dating one of, like, my classmates or something, like, who knows what else was going on.

01:39:53:17 - 01:40:21:12

Steve

But she we were talking about in class, and I just remembered feeling so free in that class to discuss whatever. And I didn't give a shit what the other students thought because she just let it. Like she made it feel like a comfortable place to talk about anything specifically sexual things in terms of visuality and just the what else?

01:40:21:12 - 01:40:55:07

Steve

The one little porn thing that we talked about, she's like, what is it? Whatever the discussion was, or her prompt was like, what is it about having, you know, attractive people in porn and specifically having, men who are just really well endowed? And I just remember raising my hand in the middle of class and saying, like, when you watch that maybe I was being a bit of a dick, but I just like when you watch porn, you don't want to see someone with this.

01:40:55:07 - 01:41:14:20

Steve

And this is a generalization. They want to see someone with this small little penis. You want to see someone with a big giant rock hard. And I just like the bell rang right them. But I just remember that moment, like, where I felt okay to just say like, yes, I want to watch porn with a guy who's got a giant penis.

01:41:14:20 - 01:41:33:02

Steve

Like I just said, I want to see a giant penis. I want to see it spring buckets of come on, people. And that's like, for me, that's huge. Like, I love it, I love that, I love it, I just love come shooting all over the place. It's so exciting for me.

01:41:34:06 - 01:41:51:06

Luna

I love that share. I love hearing that. I also just I'm such a variety slut. I'm like, I would like to see them all preferably lined up and back to back. Like I want to see the same scene with all different kinds of cocks. But that's, you know, I'm easily fascinated and love novelty.

01:41:51:07 - 01:42:12:07

Steve

My mature self would agree with you. And I think, you know, when you ask what is sexy? Like, I love looking at anybody like someone I may not be sexually attracted to, but I'm like, Tim, like, that person is either one. They just are sexy or they're being super sexy. And I love when I'm working in my workplace.

01:42:12:07 - 01:42:37:08

Steve

You know, a lot of kids are so touchy about saying, you know, anything that might be considered gay or different or kinky or anything that's going to be like, get looked at. I'm like, you can look at anybody and say, that's sexy. And it doesn't mean like it doesn't need to reflect on you like, that guy is sexy.

01:42:37:08 - 01:42:49:23

Steve

That's fine. It doesn't make you gay. You can say it. And if it does make you gay or if you feel like you are gay, that's not a problem either. Yeah, but like, you can be sexy no matter what.

01:42:50:01 - 01:43:04:02

Luna

You can be sexy no matter what. Okay? I would love to hear hopes for the future. This can be sexy. Hopes for the future. Non sexy hopes for the future. And like, more global hopes for the future. Wherever you want to take it.

01:43:04:04 - 01:43:28:15

Steve

I want to take. I want to continue to progress and improve as my dominant self. Like I just want to expand and not push that agenda that I was talking about. Like being the dominant a mom, I want to do what works for me and what works for my submissive. I really want to get into community more.

01:43:28:17 - 01:43:50:00

Steve

It's just very difficult because I do work a job where I'm concerned about who's going to be there. You know, like, who am I going to see? But we did. We you know, we did a couple of those rope workshops where we got a taste of community. It was the rope community. It was kinky community. But I just want to get out and meet more people.

01:43:50:02 - 01:44:12:20

Steve

And I think my submissive really does, too, because it's tough when you are surrounded by who you think are a bunch of vanilla people and you're doing something that's different to feel like you're on the right path. So I really just want, her to feel part of the community as well, just to give us both a kind of a validation.

01:44:12:20 - 01:44:40:05

Steve

We need to know that we're we're on the right track because I know we're on the right track. It just so feel good to know that there's a whole bunch of other people. Also on the right track to fuck you. I would also like to continue to gently train my submissive. You know, when I first started and we had that crazy contract, I had like a spreadsheet, a Google spreadsheet that I shared with her, and like, I had all the little things I was checking off, like it was just so intense.

01:44:40:06 - 01:45:02:07

Steve

So I had fun doing. But did it really serve its purpose? I don't think so. So just figuring out ways that I can train her. And in doing so, I'm training myself, I think. Yeah. And then I think the last open dream at some point in our lives and there is no rush, we both acknowledge that we're both jealous people.

01:45:02:09 - 01:45:39:15

Steve

And it's funny because in our little breaks and whatnot, whenever we started to get too wrapped up with some other person, we'd find some jealous way to like, destroy that and bring ourselves back to each other. But at some point, bringing in other people, for play, I think is something we'd both be interested in. She has always been bisexual, has dated women, and I think it's something that she feels is part of her personality, that marriage and monogamy has forced her.

01:45:39:15 - 01:46:14:12

Steve

And, you know, expectation from everybody else has or from society has depressed in her. So it would be nice to, in a safe way, allow her to feel like she's having that sexual connection with women. Yeah. Because women are sexy and she should have that. We just need to figure out, like mentally, how do we get ourselves there and not feel like we're endangering anything or breaking any trust or just like, get out of that kind of vanilla norm.

01:46:14:14 - 01:46:20:07

Steve

You can only see each other, you know, Type-A mentality? Totally, yeah.

01:46:20:09 - 01:46:24:00

Luna

Would you ever want to explore your hetero flexibility?

01:46:24:02 - 01:46:48:21

Steve

It's funny. I've always been. Sometimes it's even feel like I can be effeminate myself. Like, I, I remember getting cut as a kid, like shaving my legs in the tub, and I think I was just, you know, I grew up around my mom, and I learned from her. Yeah, I guess I'd be fine with exploring it, but I'm not really expecting that.

01:46:48:21 - 01:47:14:00

Steve

I'm going to be super interested in men, I think is what I'm trying to say. It doesn't scare me. I'm not afraid to try, but it's not something I'm actively seeking. If anything, I'd be more interested in exploring my femininity. Like I like getting dressed up for man. Like often I've done that. For Halloween. Like, sometimes we just change roles.

01:47:14:00 - 01:47:39:12

Steve

Like, I'll dress as her and she'll dress into me, and that's always been fun. Cool. Just that I think I'd be more interested in exploring that than exploring playing with with men or or non-binary people. But like, I'm not opposed, and I think she's actually interested in having multiple men at the same time. Or multiple penis over time.

01:47:39:20 - 01:48:06:10

Steve

And I'm not like, it wouldn't freak me out. I don't think it wouldn't freak me out and like, forgive me for being crude, but I get nuts and bolts kind of way, like, I if my body touched somebody else's baby. I'm not everybody's. But it's that jealousy for me. Like I don't. I've always been intensely jealous. So I think I just would need to do some work around that to make sure I'm comfortable, but I'm not opposed.

01:48:06:15 - 01:48:15:11

Steve

I love to see her. Yeah, just build everywhere. Yeah. Who?

01:48:15:12 - 01:48:27:21

Luna

Okay. It's not your job to answer this question. This is a collective brainstorm. But what do you think? We need to make the world a sexier, more loving and connected place?

01:48:27:23 - 01:49:08:00

Steve

I mean, coming from someone who works with kids, it needs to start with education. Like, I truly feel that everybody, but specifically young people, need to understand that it's okay to explore everything about sexuality and that it's not shameful at all to feel like you're different from whatever that norm is that's getting pushed on you like it infuriates me to see kind of what is regurgitated by kids these days.

01:49:08:00 - 01:49:36:00

Steve

What what if I don't sound like an old man saying these days, but just seeing what they're back to this and where their knowledge aren't, I often I'm going to. I'm trying to like, hold back the storm because I could rant about this, but I just feel it's extremely important in this age of religion. And I don't know, I, I'm like getting fired up.

01:49:36:02 - 01:50:09:04

Steve

Yeah, I get my sense of the world is crazy right now. It's just it's very difficult in this age where people are expected to be extremely vanilla as possible and that vanilla doesn't even encompass the world and that come encompass what's happening right now. Yeah, kids are being raised by pornography and, and, unrealistic expectations from either religious society or conservative society.

01:50:09:06 - 01:50:20:20

Steve

And it's leaving everybody really fucked up. And we need a way to show people that it can be different. It needs to be different.

01:50:20:22 - 01:50:47:17

Luna

I totally hear you. I totally agree, I lately I, I've taken great comfort lately from the work of Marc Brackett, who is at Yale and is in charge of an Emotions Institute, Yale, something like that. And his life mission is to teach children specifically emotional intelligence, like to educate children and adults. You know, they have programs for grown ups, too.

01:50:47:18 - 01:51:19:19

Luna

But it's like I listen to his work and I just think about how much better sex lives would be. And connection can be, you know, when we have the ability to empathetically and emotionally intelligently connect to one another, you know, because then we can kind of cross these divides and it breaks down some of, I think what you're referring to, which is all of the fuck up business that comes from rapid technological advancements and all that that's rained down upon us socially.

01:51:19:19 - 01:51:35:22

Luna

You know, where we have no, necessarily no. Agreements worldwide about how to navigate all of this, even though we're more kind of globally connected than ever before, but also in niche silos more than ever. So I totally hear that.

01:51:36:00 - 01:51:58:17

Steve

And there's no just real trusted and popular source of information that is credible. I, I, I, I think it exists, but it's so much easier to type in Pornhub than it is to go looking for the the information that's going to be really helpful. Like how do you make it relevant way that's accessible?

01:51:58:19 - 01:52:17:15

Luna

Well, that's why I really want to make a rhotic porn. Like I really the next version of this podcast, I just have to find the right collaborators who will have, you know, the next version of this conversation. It's like, so what would you like to do with me? Okay. And then we do it on a security camera or two, watches us, and then we recap and we say, what did you like?

01:52:17:15 - 01:52:37:00

Luna

What was your favorite parts? What would you do differently? And then I get to put on my director hat and create with porno professionals the movie version, the actual porno version with behind the scenes content so that people can see the difference between an actual sexual experience and the one that it's like created for screen in this heightened way, you know?

01:52:37:00 - 01:52:57:18

Luna

And it's it's tricky because a lot of content, not just porn, ramps up our amygdala and kind of like makes us drawn to more and more intense things because that's how humans, will kind of get addicted in those loops. And so I just want to create educational things and add emotional context so that people have the tools to connect with each other.

01:52:57:18 - 01:53:10:19

Luna

And that's you know, that's my that's the noodle that I'm working on next. So, I'm curious to to hear more about what you've experienced or what you're thinking about porn wise, because it's such a vast industry.

01:53:10:21 - 01:53:14:19

Steve

Yeah. And it's readily available for profit.

01:53:14:21 - 01:53:23:16

Luna

Yes. And educational things are often behind expensive paywall. So I want to create things that are accessible. Yeah.

01:53:23:18 - 01:53:25:15

Steve

Yeah. Right, right.

01:53:25:17 - 01:53:33:09

Luna

Okay. You have more control over this question. How do you love to spread ripples of love.

01:53:33:11 - 01:54:02:12

Steve

For me is patient caring. I am a kind of service oriented person who's going to patiently care for people, whether it's my partner, whether it's my family, whether it's the people I work with, that's that's me. I am a patient and caring person. Am I going to go spend a fortune on you or anybody? Maybe not, but I will do things for people.

01:54:02:12 - 01:54:06:05

Steve

That is my way of showing love for people.

01:54:06:07 - 01:54:16:17

Luna

I fucking love that. And thank you for joining me here to spread your ripples of love with your personal wisdom. Thank you for being a guest. Thank you for sharing your sex stories.

01:54:16:19 - 01:54:17:14

Steve

Thank you. I.