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39 straight Scandinavian-American, he/him pronouns, non-monogamous, film professional, California-based, world traveler, into: sensual self-discovery, sexuality and brain chemistry, hedonsim, reinvention, ethical non-monogamy, kink, partners’ pleasure, emotional sensuality, existentialism, non-attachment

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00:00:00:06 - 00:00:25:13

Luna

Our guest today is a 39 year old, half American, half Scandinavian, straight human who uses he him pronouns and is a solo, unattached lover. He loves sharing sexy thoughts as well as sexy spaces with lovers. And today we are touching on things like sensual self-discovery unfolding in parallel with internal self-realization. Sexuality and brain chemistry an introverts navigation of sensuality.

00:00:25:19 - 00:00:53:16

Luna

A post-pandemic hedonistic reinvention. His journey as a late bloomer through monogamy into ethical or consensual non-monogamy, and discovery of kink gratification in partners. Pleasure, emotional sensuality, existentialism, non-attachment, valuing sensuality as something we gift ourselves and each other, I might add, to make the world a sexier, more loving place and sexual pleasure in the pursuit of happiness. A film professional and student of the human condition.

00:00:53:16 - 00:00:58:23

Luna

Born and raised in California, but with one foot out the door. Welcome, Nico.

00:00:59:01 - 00:01:04:19

Nico

Thank you so very much for the tremendous opportunity to share this time with you.

00:01:04:23 - 00:01:22:09

Luna

Well, it is tremendous to have you here. I am so very excited. Before we dive into all of the many sexy details, which I will say, if anyone listening is like, I don't know, that sounded like a heady introduction. I think there's going to be also some just like scintillating details as well. I first want to get to know you a little bit as a human.

00:01:22:11 - 00:01:31:05

Luna

So tell us in general, what do you love in life? What gets you excited? What brings you joy?

00:01:31:07 - 00:01:34:23

Nico

How long is your program? Because we could spend forever.

00:01:35:00 - 00:01:36:11

Luna

It was a while. It was some highlights.

00:01:36:17 - 00:02:15:15

Nico

Right. What gives me joy is witnessing. Participating in sowing the seeds for further development of emotions in real time. The way that we individually and collectively apply the things that we love most, that give us those emotions. This notion of hedonism. We live in this time and place in this dimension, and it is important that we all find the things that we love most, that fulfill us the most, that we all attach our peak emotions to.

00:02:15:20 - 00:02:28:09

Nico

So what gives me happiness is seeing others and participating in this thing called life with others. As we are actualizing hedonism.

00:02:28:11 - 00:02:33:21

Luna

Should that be the title of your future memoir of actualizing hedonism as a group? Free?

00:02:34:00 - 00:02:37:19

Nico

Definitely a chapter. Maybe. Maybe a subset or something.

00:02:37:19 - 00:03:08:22

Luna

Definitely something you you're listening to someone with strong Scorpio placements and a lot of them, you know, there also is that optimism of Sagittarius in there. But if you're like what what? There's depth and appreciation in all of that Scorpio warrior am I? And from the battle I emerge triumphant. But also Scorpio is sex, death and money. So on a tangible level, we just list a few things for us that you just like or enjoy.

00:03:09:00 - 00:03:45:13

Nico

Storytelling in all forms that gets applied to visual senses, cinema, cinematic storytelling, storytelling through music, through dance, through poetry, through painting, through sculpture. Any manifestation where someone has infused their emotions into a format that is shareable, that is, able to be participated with utilizing all of our senses. I also find that, collective enjoyment of events in a positive way.

00:03:45:15 - 00:04:16:16

Nico

I'm a sports fan, and the emotions that I feel when, witnessing the performance of a sporting event, which in itself is a form of storytelling that brings me a lot of happiness. Another aspect that brings me a lot of happiness is animals as well. I'm an animal lover and, animal wellness, welfare. Animal welfare is something that is, important to me, as there tends to be some situations where human beings tend to, let us down.

00:04:16:18 - 00:04:31:03

Nico

The emotional connection to an animal is something that makes me very, fulfilled and gives me purpose in participating with rescue and all that kind of stuff. In the vanilla world. So there's a few things.

00:04:31:03 - 00:04:38:09

Luna

I fucking love. All of that. Do you have favorite animals and also, do you have favorite genres.

00:04:38:15 - 00:04:47:21

Nico

In a broader sense? As I've gone through life, I've tried to not, label hierarchies in terms of favorite versus non favorite.

00:04:47:23 - 00:05:01:16

Luna

That's why I said favorites, because I, as a polyamorous person, can never pick one favorite, although I do. If I have to give like default answers, I've not practiced them. So I go penguin croissant, you know, like I have of sci fi.

00:05:01:18 - 00:05:17:19

Nico

I find the beauty and the positive in every life form, whether we acknowledge them as life forms or not. But to answer your question more specifically, indirectly, I happen to have a experiential connection to felines moreso than any other animal.

00:05:17:22 - 00:05:28:22

Luna

Okay, yes, I love that. Okay. So now I would love to know how do you show your self love? How do you woo you?

00:05:29:00 - 00:06:17:12

Nico

In the most recent years, as my relationship to self-care and self-love has evolved. I woo myself when I pursue my form of happiness. When I participate in the things that bring me joy, the things that I find emotionally fulfilling, spiritually fulfilling, physically fulfilling, and where those are three aspects and more, intersect with one another. How you can experience pleasure of company and conversation in conjunction with an art form, or a meal, or a sunset, or lighting a candle, or embracing stillness.

00:06:17:14 - 00:06:42:15

Nico

We're sitting here next to one another, talking, journeying through words and feelings and associations and histories and articulating on experiences. And that makes me very happy to do. But equally, I could be just as happy and woohoo myself in complete silence in the same sense.

00:06:42:17 - 00:06:43:07

Luna

Yeah.

00:06:43:09 - 00:07:17:11

Nico

The way that this somewhat connects to, sensuality in some ways is one of the things that I love most and gives me so much joy is when, through sensual embrace and activities, my brain and body cannot articulate in words, the stimulation of physical engagement takes over from being able to say words. That is something that I love to acknowledge in the time and reflect on afterwards.

00:07:17:13 - 00:07:19:23

Nico

That's one answer to your question.

00:07:20:01 - 00:07:41:02

Luna

I hear so much self permission in that answer. Do you have a conscious sense of allowing or how do you conceive of giving yourself those gifts? Because to me it sounds like you do. But I'm like, what does it feel like to you?

00:07:41:04 - 00:08:03:11

Nico

Yeah. Thank you. I think we briefly touched on this before we started recording as well. But, I've been in recent years, as someone who is a self-professed introvert. I've been exploring notions of granting permission that absolves myself of what I would formerly consider to be selfishness.

00:08:03:13 - 00:08:04:00

Luna

00:08:04:01 - 00:08:38:16

Nico

I've never been, one who likes to be the center of attention or feel like my participation or proximity to anything is taking away from anyone else. So whether that's a consumptive experience, this notion of taking instead of sharing has been attached to this notion of not being a selfish person. In more recent years, I've been shaking that term of selfishness from any negative connotation.

00:08:38:18 - 00:09:13:03

Nico

And this granting of permission to myself to experience what I love, not to be viewed as a selfish endeavor. I'm allowed to experience the things that make me happy, and I can do those in a balanced way that doesn't have shame attached to it, or the feeling that I need to constantly prioritize someone else in my life and attachment to someone else's emotion, someone else's happiness that supersedes my own.

00:09:13:05 - 00:09:35:23

Nico

I love to gift myself to my friends, my family, my lovers, other people, animals. I love to gift my time and presence and, energy. But it's also okay to allow myself to take in the things that prompt happiness.

00:09:36:01 - 00:10:01:17

Luna

I'm so grateful that you shared that, because I think it is so important for so many of us to hear that there must be receiving as well as giving. You know, I know that I used to be a pretty out of balance human, but it's like in any relationship when I know that when people want to take from me without giving anything meaningful in return, I'm like, why?

00:10:01:19 - 00:10:19:21

Luna

You know? And similarly, I know that when I'm trying to give to someone like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm like, come on, you know, like I have that kind of like feeling. I'd love to hear how you kind of came to that. It sounds like a realization or it sounds like there's kind of a switch for you.

00:10:19:23 - 00:10:26:11

Luna

How did you come to learn that and embrace that as your new world practice of self?

00:10:26:13 - 00:11:06:19

Nico

Firstly, I think that coming across that mindset was the result of many, events in life, in addition to therapeutic space and going through a process of of self-reflection and acknowledgment and talking with a trusted individual or several of them in, a deliberate way, unpacking history of events in, in life and relationships to family and individuals and figuring out how we all individually take or don't take, the things that get attached to us in our memories.

00:11:06:21 - 00:11:13:14

Nico

And, you know, I know on, this fantastic program, you often ask about. Shame on meter.

00:11:13:19 - 00:11:14:14

Luna

Yes.

00:11:14:14 - 00:11:16:09

Nico

And I don't know if you plan to.

00:11:16:09 - 00:11:18:12

Luna

Ask where I'm going, but you can bring it up now.

00:11:18:13 - 00:11:30:15

Nico

In preparation for that, I was thinking about my current association with shame in real time. As I sit here at this very moment. And if I had to place a numerical grade on that.

00:11:30:17 - 00:11:33:22

Luna

Where ten is the highest and zero is like, I don't have any.

00:11:34:00 - 00:11:43:11

Nico

It would be a three. But the three is based on acknowledging the echoes of the.

00:11:43:11 - 00:11:44:17

Luna

Past.

00:11:44:18 - 00:12:28:11

Nico

That are important to acknowledge took place and still exist within me, and remind me how to go forward deliberately so that that embedded shame from being a kid, or being a teenager, or being in monogamous relationships that were had some struggles. I don't think those will ever completely exit my make up of my personal life. But in the balancing act of taking the events of one's life and crafting them to be the tools that shape the decisions into your future.

00:12:28:19 - 00:12:57:16

Nico

Again, washing the the word of shame the same way that I wash the word of selfishness from something that has a negative component or overtone and, saying these are things that now are in my toolkit. Yes, that I can take and say, this is how I will mend my current situation with these tools. I now know how to utilize.

00:12:57:18 - 00:13:44:04

Nico

I think that on a global level, the 2020 Covid pandemic forced a lot of people who maybe were in situations where, their song and dance of everyday life and society was altered. And in that time and space where we had to reassess our individual place in the world and our perspective on our own lives. For me, that was a place in which I, wanted to adjust my tendencies of attachment to the emotions of my partners in ways that I knew, were problematic because they were not balanced.

00:13:44:06 - 00:13:50:09

Nico

You alluded to my Scorpio tendencies, and I tend to be, intense.

00:13:50:11 - 00:13:50:15

Luna

Yeah.

00:13:50:18 - 00:13:55:11

Nico

And, you know, that can be applied in many, many ways, most of which are are great.

00:13:55:11 - 00:13:56:06

Luna

Okay. Yeah.

00:13:56:06 - 00:15:02:19

Nico

It's my my greatest, asset. But that intensity also when not harnessed in ways like that toolkit where I have my relationship to form early selfish tendencies or shame capacities. That intensity is a tool that I want to employ in the benefit of my daily life, both personally and as a lover, and using that intensity to, pursue balance has been very, very meaningful and very, very beneficial as I go forward and cultivate love and pursue, sharing myself in a loving way, but without losing myself completely in the pursuit of striving for someone else's happiness, to be on the shoulders of my decisions and presence, or lack thereof.

00:15:02:21 - 00:15:30:22

Luna

Yeah, it is such a dance. It is so interesting to how our greatest gifts are also our biggest lessons. You know, for me, my deep curiosity and creativity. It is a super genius power and also when not harnessed correctly, if I am not discriminating in how I apply it, I'm asking creative questions and places that explode people's, you know, unconscious in movies that I didn't mean and they weren't really ready for.

00:15:30:22 - 00:15:49:01

Luna

And the more that I know that I'm growing and excavating that, the more that I'm able to, pursue my own version of kind of like love and balance. And for me, it's in the name of connection. You know, I think all humans kind of want connection. On that note, I would love to hear how you like to be wooed.

00:15:49:03 - 00:15:57:01

Luna

How do you like to receive love? What kind of attention is meaningful to you or makes you melt?

00:15:57:03 - 00:16:21:14

Nico

I think the answer to that question has so many components to it on an outward level, obviously being acknowledged for doing a good job. However that is applied, whether that's on a presence level, on a professional level, on a you're a good friend kind of moment. Like, thank you for helping me. Thank you for teaching me. Thank you for sharing your time.

00:16:21:16 - 00:16:52:23

Nico

But I think the the deepest level of that, in an intimate sense and in a partnership sense, is moments where gazing into the eyes of someone you're sharing time with is not impeded by any kind of distraction or any kind of softening of that experience in time. I think that when someone shows up for you and someone asks you, will you show up for me?

00:16:53:01 - 00:17:18:14

Nico

Either in a time of need or in a time of great celebration, like share this wonderful thing with me. That is something extremely special and that is something that is finite in time, but it is something that gets stored in the memory bank as well. When you have a moment with a friend or a lover that becomes like a deposit into your soul.

00:17:18:16 - 00:17:39:02

Luna

In that answer, I can't help but, look, I'm not super big into love languages because food is not one of them. And obviously food is a real love language. On its own category. But I, as I hear you speak, I hear almost like an acknowledgment of acts of service and like a quality time spent.

00:17:39:04 - 00:18:06:18

Nico

I wrote down on my phone not that long ago, three simple words that I remind myself of often, and that I really have tried to infuse and embed in. You know, I don't have any tattoos, but if I did, this would be something that should be tattooed on an outwardly visible sense. But it is tattooed on my soul and my brain going forward as a mindset, a mantra, so to speak.

00:18:06:18 - 00:18:09:21

Nico

Not to get too, you know, theological here, but.

00:18:09:23 - 00:18:11:20

Luna

Get it.

00:18:11:22 - 00:19:06:16

Nico

Live to give. It's so incredibly simple and whatever doesn't need to be complex and frilly or whatever acts of giving is the meaning of life. We are these heavily evolved mammals who have an idea that we are these superior beings in this dimension. Here we are capable of immense, tremendous acts as well as the opposite. And I think that that's something that we are exposed to or amidst all the time, however, something as simple as generosity, applying and manifesting your own form of generosity and then being receptive to other people's forms of generosity, live to give.

00:19:06:18 - 00:19:35:02

Nico

Give beauty. Give your time. Give your space. Give pieces of yourself from that soul in which you've been depositing goodness into finding ways to replenish that soul. And then say, I'm going to give you what you need from me in this time. What is it? How can I be there for you? How can I give you happiness, distraction, care?

00:19:35:04 - 00:20:12:01

Nico

Medicine? Yeah, that term of medicine is not just a clinical term. It is something that can be applied very broadly. And I think it's empowering to use that term medicine. And, beyond just, fixing what ails you, it is something that fortifies your ability to be the best human you can be, is to harness your medicine, give your medicine to help those who ask for it, or those who you want to give it to.

00:20:12:03 - 00:20:46:20

Nico

And that is through sharing your passions. That is, sharing the things that might be perceived as your gift and that can be through forms like stories, art forms, etc. it can be, of course, intimacy as well. That is maybe the most deliberate act of service, gifting one's heart and energy in a sensual, fulfilling, honest application.

00:20:46:22 - 00:21:14:23

Luna

I love that and as I hear you speak, I cannot help but think what a wonderful reason to make sure that you are quote unquote selfish enough to be filled up so that you can give from a place of being resourced, you know, and creating that reciprocity, you know? Yeah. And what a good point. Two write gifts are delineated from acts of service, from time well spent, but they're all the gift.

00:21:15:03 - 00:21:50:01

Nico

A certain band that originates from the city we live in. And they have a song that was very popular and still remains a pretty damn good song, in my opinion, entitled something to the Nature of Giving it away. And, I like that song very much. I always did, but it took a different meaning, as I have, figured out ways to, embrace this notion of what it is that we should give away or give to anything.

00:21:50:03 - 00:22:01:18

Luna

Did you ever learn to love or something? If you give it away, you give it away. You give it away. Love is something. If you give it all, you'll end up having more. Do you know that song?

00:22:01:18 - 00:22:02:10

Nico

I don't know.

00:22:02:10 - 00:22:22:08

Luna

That song, but I think you need to like a magic penny. Hold it and keep it. And you won't have any. But lend it and spend it. You'll have so many. You'll end up having more. Like, that's just I don't. I learned that as a kid and, don't know where or when, but that's just what that made me think of, you know?

00:22:22:09 - 00:22:29:21

Luna

So I don't know the song you're talking about, but, I have a little kid song that I just sang for everyone, so, you know, and I think that's key, right?

00:22:29:21 - 00:22:34:08

Nico

It absolutely is. And that was very cute, by the way.

00:22:34:10 - 00:22:37:11

Luna

It's a cute little kid and I sing it. My little kid voice it is.

00:22:37:11 - 00:23:13:09

Nico

But again, you know, the lessons that we learn and the songs that we sing and the stories that we expose ourselves to and one another from an early age until the day we take our dying breath in this body, in this space, have universality to it. That little message, as well as my little simple, basic kindergarten level mantra, has simplicity to it that is extremely effective when educating one another about the simplicity of giving.

00:23:13:14 - 00:23:16:01

Nico

Being strong medicine.

00:23:16:04 - 00:23:36:02

Luna

Yeah, which is also why my like creative life goal still is to make my sci fi sex ed feature film musical called mission 69. It's all about making the world we're taking care of each other is the norm, you know, so we can get songs stuck in our head about how to cook nicely. And all the emotional context.

00:23:36:02 - 00:23:50:23

Luna

Yeah. You said to me earlier, it's like I love providing emotional context to things like you talked about. When artists create things with their emotion, I forget exactly how you said it, but, love that. When do you have the most fun and, like, what makes you laugh?

00:23:51:01 - 00:24:23:00

Nico

I like this question very much because in in multiple ways, acknowledging when you are in the middle of feeling that happiness and joy is such a great thing. I think we, like, distract ourselves very much from from being in the moment of enjoyment, in a litany of ways. So a hedonistic relationship to art forms or a sporting event or something, you know, seeing a good movie or having a good meal and having a good laugh and then saying, I'm really happy I'm doing this right.

00:24:23:00 - 00:24:30:20

Luna

Savoring. Have you heard about the concept of savoring? Know the concept. I listen to it about you that. But it's like in the moment, it's exactly what you're saying.

00:24:30:22 - 00:25:18:13

Nico

It's fantastic to, acknowledge and savor. And again, add that to your soul bank. Yes. But on top of that, the things that I enjoy the most are when, like I mentioned in a vanilla context, all of those aspects, but something that gives me immense joy and pleasure are the moments right when you've had just the most passionate, intimate, mind blowing, soul restoring, sense tingling, love sex, orgasm with a lover and words completely escape your capacity to to register in your brain and come out your mouth.

00:25:18:15 - 00:25:52:17

Nico

You know I love the moments where you have just experienced something so intense that you feel like you are having an out-of-body experience and that can go both ways. That can be something you are experiencing yourself through a climactic, orgasmic, fantastic moment, as well as witnessing, seeing your partner or partners having that and taking great pleasure in saying, I participated in gifting this person.

00:25:52:17 - 00:26:16:19

Nico

I really care about and really want to, you know, love in this moment. Participating in their moment of climactic joy. I glean so much vitality in the pleasure of my sexual partners and intimate lovers.

00:26:16:21 - 00:26:43:14

Luna

I totally resonate with that. I, as you say, that I'm like, I think I've got a thing for being a facilitator, which is not a very sexy word, but but I do. I love facilitating, whether it's an orgasm or a conversation or a photoshoot or whatever context. And it's like facilitating contexts that allow for wildly delightful surprise and enjoyment.

00:26:43:16 - 00:26:47:06

Luna

Yeah, I love that. But what makes you laugh?

00:26:47:08 - 00:27:24:14

Nico

Right? So the laughter part. I find that those moments where words don't register and I find myself in such a, physically and energetically spent state that I can't do anything except laugh as the the nerve endings from head to toe are just going off the charts from the release of serotonin and dopamine and all the other muscular or physically embodied overload.

00:27:24:16 - 00:27:40:22

Nico

When that culminates in this, you know, nature's internal laughing gas triggering within me. And words don't register and I just stand there laughing uncontrollably, as if you've taken, like a hit.

00:27:40:22 - 00:27:45:00

Luna

Of laughing gas. Yeah, I mean, your abs get sore. Yeah.

00:27:46:05 - 00:28:20:01

Nico

So many forms of laughter. I mean joy in experiencing something that is a traditional source of laughter. And then also this carnal soul convulsing laughter from experiencing, like this spectacular release of chemical and, and, passion. I mean, it's not just about the what's actually taking place in your body. I mean, sensuality, sexuality goes beyond just the things that can be studied.

00:28:20:03 - 00:28:22:01

Luna

Sounds like orgasm. Laughter.

00:28:22:03 - 00:28:32:08

Nico

Yes. Orgasm. Laughter is putting it, putting a name to a very, indescribable individual moment of extreme joy and pleasure.

00:28:32:08 - 00:28:43:07

Luna

Sometimes I call it sex silly to. That's an sex stupid sex don't like. I go below, you know, I lose my words and I get. I've been known to get giggly. I love that.

00:28:43:09 - 00:29:14:06

Nico

And something that is beautiful about collective human experience is the way that we share good things together. Spaces in which we see a performance that makes us laugh collectively. Yes, that same feeling immediately can swing into the intimate for me as well. Like I can witness an orgy and people are having a fantastic time and like enjoying the hell out of one another in the best possible ways.

00:29:14:08 - 00:29:36:11

Nico

And that kind of a laughter is the same as, you know, watching a tremendous comedy on screen or, you know, physical comedian on stage. I like that collective laughter can be manifested in wonderful ways on like, a sensual level. Damn.

00:29:36:12 - 00:29:39:18

Luna

When do you feel the most connected to other humans?

00:29:39:20 - 00:30:17:16

Nico

Sometimes, unfortunately, I feel the most connected to humans because of negative reasons. Points in which we, see disasters and then there's a collective response to that. Typically, you know, we gather as humans and in spaces for the enjoyment of aspects that we've created, like art forms, like theater, concerts, sporting events, big meals, meals, you know, anything that brings us together that can be found and acknowledged and present.

00:30:17:18 - 00:30:38:03

Luna

What about with one person like I sometimes it can be an eye gaze. It can be more than that. I find myself, like almost shying away. Or I have the opposite right? Like this. To me, I feel very connected. You know, I'm tuned in. I'm like hyper focusing on you in a conversation sometimes, and I feel like an open willingness.

00:30:38:03 - 00:30:50:04

Luna

I mean, sex is an obvious answer, but it is a lot of intangibles. And so I am also just curious to see, like what different things percolate through your head. Of course, the disaster answer is insightful too.

00:30:50:06 - 00:31:19:09

Nico

Yeah. I mean, sometimes it, you know, the bell curve connects, in strange ways. And, you know, when something is terrifying us, when there's components that bring us together because we need to be there for one another because of strife or unsavory events. But as someone who also really, gravitates towards, distraction, I do, I do.

00:31:19:11 - 00:31:26:13

Luna

I never would have guessed that from the couple hours of experience I have with you so far.

00:31:26:15 - 00:31:50:22

Nico

If we were to be sharing a intimate moment with our clothes on doesn't have to be intimacy in that sense. If we were standing in a kitchen cooking a meal together, I must have something in my hands. I must have a task that I'm applying myself in, in that sense. So having something that is occupying.

00:31:51:00 - 00:31:57:13

Luna

A grounding element, yes, I feel, I feel it with this ring. Yeah, that sounds like it helps you focus.

00:31:57:13 - 00:31:58:02

Nico

It does.

00:31:58:08 - 00:32:11:20

Luna

Okay. Does that translate into human connection. Like do you have like a piece here and then a piece there? I'm, I'm squiggling my finger, my thumb and forefinger and then like, jabbing toward him with my other hand.

00:32:11:22 - 00:32:44:21

Nico

Translating that into when I can apply a physical distraction into an intimate situation. I love to utilize all of my capacity to physically embrace this. This notion of tenderness can be shared by proximity, but it's also one of the ways that you can apply individual senses with whomever you're being tender and intimate with. Yeah.

00:32:44:23 - 00:32:50:17

Luna

How do you know when you are connecting with another person?

00:32:50:19 - 00:32:54:11

Nico

That is the million dollar question as well, because as we.

00:32:54:12 - 00:32:57:03

Luna

Go into it for me. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. Let me just.

00:32:57:05 - 00:33:02:15

Nico

Dig deep here for, for how do we know when something is real and it isn't.

00:33:02:17 - 00:33:04:03

Luna

Yeah, yeah.

00:33:04:05 - 00:33:04:17

Nico

As we.

00:33:04:17 - 00:33:07:02

Luna

Go. And what is the purpose of life?

00:33:07:04 - 00:33:35:14

Nico

Yeah. As we go forward into an uncertain future with a many potential, situations that can derail the authentic human experience. Something that we briefly mentioned before, too, that can never be faked, can never be watered down, can never be misinterpreted. Is the silent moment of eye gazing one human to another?

00:33:35:16 - 00:33:39:03

Luna

I think I've misinterpreted silent eye gazes.

00:33:40:03 - 00:33:42:04

Nico

Oh. Are you sure, though?

00:33:42:06 - 00:34:02:11

Luna

No, I never am not like, that's why I spend so much of my life being like. Please put this impossible to describe feeling into words for me because I'm just trying to calibrate and data gather. I know for a fact that I've, I mean, I'm gonna say fucked up, but I don't I don't mean it really with self-judgment.

00:34:02:11 - 00:34:24:04

Luna

I mean, I know that I have been like, totally got that signal, and I totally didn't get that signal in so many ways, in so many context. I mean, the go to that I think a lot of people connect with tell me if this works for you is like so many times where I'm like, that person's attracted to me.

00:34:25:01 - 00:34:35:05

Luna

You know, we're just missing the signals. I've heard a lot of people kind of like, report that or like trying to send a signal. And later maybe I found out it did get through, but I misinterpreted that, you know, like.

00:34:35:06 - 00:34:41:23

Nico

That accurately describes about 30 years of my life is trying to figure out that. So literal interpretation.

00:34:41:23 - 00:35:05:13

Luna

Okay, so maybe if I listen with my heart and not my literal ears and go back to what you're saying about the eye gazing, is there an implication there that in those instances of eye gazing, there is enough knowing like there's there's like the connection is already there. So in those moments, you do know, because I definitely also have moments where I at least think I know, you know, I'm in the like a deep, intense eye gazing.

00:35:05:13 - 00:35:17:11

Luna

And I feel, you know, our bodies on a physiological level, they do sync up in a movie theater, at a concert, but also just together, like we start to like, yes, way in rhythm, you know.

00:35:17:13 - 00:35:55:12

Nico

The actual act of sharing space and gazing into the eyes that can take place while there is a plethora of other distractions or motivations or thought processes that take place leading up to that moment and after that moment, our minds are running 24 hours a day, whether we are conscious and awake or asleep. So we are trying to interpret what is taking place at all times and if you're out on a date with someone for the first time and they are looking into your eyes, you probably are thinking, what is that person really thinking about in that moment?

00:35:55:12 - 00:36:49:05

Nico

Should I should I react to that? Should I add to that? Should I question that? So there's all of these other aspects that go into it. But when you strip away these other levels of distraction, when you get like monastery monk simple, that act of sitting in repose, sitting in a space where those distractions vanish, there is something so incredibly beautiful about sharing the moment where two human eyes peer into one another, and you add on top of that layers of other intimacy sexual intimacy, the eye gaze leading up through for playing the eye gaze in after care.

00:36:49:07 - 00:36:55:17

Luna

They're very different, I guess, coming up from when you're going down on someone and just like checking in that different to.

00:36:55:19 - 00:37:00:20

Nico

Oh yes, the literal physical spatial angles of eye gazing.

00:37:00:20 - 00:37:01:15

Luna

Yeah.

00:37:01:17 - 00:37:29:01

Nico

You can add all sorts of other context and kink play and dynamics to where and when and the angles and the lighting that goes into the eye to eye connection. You get into sensory deprivation of when you are allowed to look into the eye, or when you permit a partner to look into the eye. All of this stuff becomes attainable and applicable accordingly.

00:37:29:03 - 00:37:46:01

Nico

But something that gives me a lot of gratitude in acknowledging present existence is that simple, silent, eye gazing with no context or as little context.

00:37:46:04 - 00:37:47:12

Luna

That makes you feel connected.

00:37:47:13 - 00:37:48:02

Nico

Very much.

00:37:48:02 - 00:38:11:11

Luna

So. I have the opposite experience because I'm like, what are they doing? And for me, on a date, I'm usually like one, two, three. Don't be creepy. Look away. No, you know, like like I really because when I was literally 26, one of my friends was like, dude, why did you stare down my friend who I just introduced you to?

00:38:11:11 - 00:38:24:19

Luna

And I was like, almost following the rule of do good eye contact. We're talking. Looks like it was so intense. You just, like, stared at him without blinking. And I was, you know, and then I read a book about one, 2 or 3. You look away. 2 or 3 and, you know.

00:38:24:23 - 00:38:34:17

Nico

Well, mister, mister, five times a Scorpio. Intense all the time without meaning to be intense. I can relate to that.

00:38:34:17 - 00:38:37:12

Luna

That friend was a Scorpio. Just a super double Scorpio.

00:38:37:12 - 00:38:38:06

Nico

Why am I not so.

00:38:38:06 - 00:38:58:22

Luna

But different one. But he was like it was two intense. I was like two intense for you. But I think what I'm hearing in all of that is there is a piece of your, some part of your, your animal human body that is able to sense the connection through the visual cues of another person in silence.

00:38:59:00 - 00:39:20:21

Nico

And the visual cue being just one application of sense. I mean, not everyone, not everyone, has the ability to use eyes and won't be able to relate to what I'm talking about here, but I think that the eyes are just one of those senses that we typically possess as human mammals.

00:39:20:21 - 00:39:21:16

Luna

Yeah.

00:39:21:18 - 00:39:32:20

Nico

Touch is another thing. You can take the exact same context of what I just mentioned about eye gazing, which to me I enjoy most because the real.

00:39:32:21 - 00:39:36:19

Luna

Eye gazing or touch most eye gazing. But what about eye getting with touch?

00:39:36:21 - 00:39:40:17

Nico

You see, then you're then you're exponentially enhancing.

00:39:40:21 - 00:39:41:21

Luna

The chemistry, the.

00:39:41:21 - 00:40:23:19

Nico

Human sensory experience. Which is why when you combine all of the senses on top of one another, literally and metaphorically, you our capacity as human beings to utilize our gifted senses and use sense sensory gifting. This is also like a massively enjoyable source of medicine. So I gazing and physical touch in silence or in proximity to hearing something beautiful like a song or an ocean, or the wind going through a forest or anything.

00:40:23:20 - 00:40:38:04

Luna

Yeah, as I hear you say that, I can't help but think of thought like, well, it doesn't sound like you're remotely distracted or distractible when you're eye gazing, like it sounds like you are anchored into the other being.

00:40:38:06 - 00:41:00:02

Nico

Very much so, and moments that act of anchoring the sensory experience that we as human beings who are lucky enough to be able to utilize all of our mammalian senses of sight, sound, taste, touch and sight. When I already said all that.

00:41:00:13 - 00:41:01:12

Luna

Taste, touch, smell.

00:41:01:14 - 00:41:04:10

Nico

Smell, smell, smell.

00:41:04:12 - 00:41:08:05

Luna

That's what I was thinking of. Yeah, that would be the next one that I. Yeah.

00:41:08:07 - 00:41:16:16

Nico

I can also one that is said to be most heavily linked to memory embedded like this. Yeah.

00:41:16:18 - 00:41:20:14

Luna

Has to do with the thalamus I think hypothalamus camera.

00:41:20:16 - 00:42:06:06

Nico

So all of these senses that we typically, when we're lucky, can possess and utilize throughout our lives, applying those senses in this hedonistic pursuit of of the things that individually make us fulfilled and bring us happiness and give us this emotional participation in life. Those five senses are such a tremendous asset to being alive and being human, and you can redirect those and embody those into intimacy and sexuality for yourself, for your partner, for a collective experience.

00:42:06:08 - 00:42:48:09

Nico

So being able to hear your lover's breath as you're looking them in the eye, as you're touching them, as you're literally smelling their bodies and their pheromones, you add all of this up. The exponential ability for human beings to love one another and gift one another. This intimacy is the medicine that can heal one another, can enhance one another, can empower humanity to find this nirvana, this highest enlightenment.

00:42:48:11 - 00:42:50:11

Nico

Yeah, in my humble opinion.

00:42:50:11 - 00:43:16:15

Luna

I love, I mean, I'm also a words person. I'm like, I got to use my talking and my brain noodling and my ears to hear word. You know, I love exchange of information like earlier where before recording, we were talking about information. And we're both people who love information. And I'm like, give me information to connect. I'm also learning the balance of, you know, sometimes in bed with a new person, I'll be like, what does this feel like?

00:43:16:15 - 00:43:25:06

Luna

Do you like this? Do you want more of this? Do. And I'm learning to do more of that silently, too. And just listen with all of my senses, all the senses that are available to me.

00:43:25:12 - 00:43:30:23

Nico

Vocal communication through language is only one form that we tend to use a lot.

00:43:30:23 - 00:43:33:03

Luna

But it's my favorite. Don't get mad at it.

00:43:33:05 - 00:43:36:06

Nico

There's so many kinds that are equally important.

00:43:36:12 - 00:44:00:15

Luna

And I think people are better at certain ones. And you know, some of us have to try harder to get better at the more subtle ones. But also, I will say, I think the reason language became my favorite is because I observe that we live in a, that I live in a society that has a lot of double signaling, and the actions don't always line up with the words.

00:44:00:15 - 00:44:11:23

Luna

And, and then I realize that there's some places where people are like trying to be vague on purpose so they can be like, no, I didn't. Yes, I didn't know, you know. So I'm like, what exactly do you mean?

00:44:12:01 - 00:44:43:14

Nico

That is where this construct of the ego is infused in the individual, where the ego, the sense of self, the sense of entitlement, the sense of I'm something more than I think I am, I deserve something, I'm, you know, the selfishness that is attached to an ego that dictates how we utilize our senses, how we interact with one another, how we pursue hierarchies.

00:44:43:16 - 00:45:07:09

Luna

Interesting. Yes, I always assume that when people are being squiggly like that, that they're just really unconsciously scared of something I don't understand. But also I have been likened to not. I didn't say these words. Other people have said this to me. Multiples. I've been likened to Kali the destroyer. And what she actually does is destroys demons, ego, death.

00:45:08:00 - 00:45:17:06

Luna

And so I'm like, you know, because I have this mode, especially if I get flipped into a moment of righteousness, like standing up for someone who I know isn't going to stand up for themselves, whatever they say.

00:45:17:08 - 00:45:20:19

Nico

Well, that fine line between destruction and creation.

00:45:20:19 - 00:45:37:05

Luna

Is it's the same. Yeah. I mean, Pluto is our healer. It destroys so that new things can happen. Yeah, yeah. And I do a lot of the people that I accidentally explode often come back and say thank you. And I don't like I'm like, you're not. Well, look, I don't want that experience, but, you know, I'm surrendering to my gift.

00:45:37:07 - 00:46:07:09

Nico

Yes. And on a, sexual level, I've been asked to destroy a partner before, and that has spurned a tremendous resurgence of joy. So, again, it's like this bell curve of where do you where do words and where do actions and where do, notions that, like, are destructive versus creative? Positive versus negative, painful versus pleasure? Like, where do all these things meet?

00:46:07:09 - 00:46:09:23

Nico

It's definitely not linear.

00:46:10:01 - 00:46:25:01

Luna

Was that request for destruction like in the heat of a moment, or was it like a pre like when you're talking about it with someone like an I would really like it tonight if you would destroy me. Like how did it come up contextually? He's laughing.

00:46:25:01 - 00:46:25:13

Nico

It's been.

00:46:25:13 - 00:46:28:04

Luna

Now I know the answer to that question is.

00:46:28:06 - 00:46:39:14

Nico

It's not just been once that it's been requested and it's either been in writing or it's been in, in, reflective, retroactive like.

00:46:39:17 - 00:46:52:08

Luna

Is it like the same partner that loves that word, or do you get it where you imagine it for people who like to be destroyed, which would make sense with all that Scorpio energy, because it just doesn't come up in, like, I'm more likely to be like, I need you to use me.

00:46:52:10 - 00:47:08:08

Nico

All right, well, I'm a self-described switch, okay? And the times in which the term destruction has been applied to my lovers, I am definitely in a position of a dominant role.

00:47:08:08 - 00:47:08:19

Luna

Yes.

00:47:08:23 - 00:47:21:05

Nico

And the requests for, certain body parts to be destroyed with my actions and body parts is, very fun.

00:47:21:07 - 00:47:38:17

Luna

I hope we get all those explicit details later. Right now I want to know what texture of connection or, like, what kind of connection do you need in place to take a relationship into the physically intimate? And I do mean sex.

00:47:38:19 - 00:47:44:14

Nico

There's certainly not a one size fits all approach to answering that question. There's not a.

00:47:44:14 - 00:47:46:08

Luna

I know, it's this all impulses.

00:47:46:08 - 00:48:17:21

Nico

This must be in place for XYZ to take place. That is also something that, as I've been embracing and exploring a non-monogamous approach to, my love life, it becomes even more evident that, an individual partner and approaching how to be intimate in ways that fulfill both of us is completely unique and is completely a, joyful exploration.

00:48:17:23 - 00:49:17:19

Nico

Getting to know one's partner and also being able to compartmentalize the time I spend with one partner, and that partners needs and wishes and desires and attitude and likes and dislikes and turn ons, and then infusing the memory bank of how my five senses are applied to that partner brings a lot of enjoyment and and fulfillment, and then being able to separate myself and how I am with another partner in a completely unique way, so that when time is spent with another partner, you're able to, in real time, you know, dial the blend of how you show up for them, how you bring that sensory experience towards this collective, togetherness.

00:49:17:19 - 00:49:43:10

Nico

There's communicated context ahead of time with certain partners, what they are wishing for in their life at a certain time. Upon meeting, if it's like communicated, I really am wanting to address sexual needs more. So then wanting deeper layers of intimacy and that's all good and well. I have some partners that are strictly a dynamic situation.

00:49:43:12 - 00:49:47:15

Luna

A strict dynamic situation. Sometimes.

00:49:47:17 - 00:50:06:23

Nico

And then there's others where it's this middle ground of both communicated intense sexual, passionate needs. But when that aftercare turns into falling asleep in one another's arms, you know, there's definitely less of a cut and dry dynamic, in some of those situations as well.

00:50:06:23 - 00:50:20:03

Luna

So so it sounds like the requisite is enough attraction for you to be interested in investing, in communicating and maybe clarity on the partner's part so that you can co-create.

00:50:20:05 - 00:50:21:01

Nico

Yes.

00:50:21:03 - 00:50:24:23

Luna

Something that it sounds like there's room for it to change and shift and grow together.

00:50:24:23 - 00:50:45:09

Nico

Definitely. And I think a huge part of that too, is this initial approach of of basic willingness to share that information on top of apparent attraction, like that initial attraction needs to be there to establish a baseline of where do we go from here? Yeah.

00:50:45:11 - 00:51:10:09

Luna

I mean, and for me, especially dabbling in or not dabbling, dabbling a decade into non-monogamous configurations, I know that I have to feel very secure that that other person isn't suddenly going to snap and boom, like, be on mine forever. Just you. Just me, you know, like, I need to feel like they are far enough along in their journey that there's a certain level of consciousness that I can vibe with.

00:51:10:09 - 00:51:30:18

Luna

You know, I need to know that they are the type of person that's going to take my health and safety really seriously and, and make sure, because that's something that's really important to me, you know, both for work and play purposes. And yeah, that those elements of safety. But it sounds like that's like implied in the people that you are connecting with.

00:51:30:19 - 00:51:31:11

Nico

Absolutely.

00:51:31:16 - 00:51:33:22

Luna

And I'm also hearing kinky element.

00:51:34:00 - 00:52:13:02

Nico

Very much so. And you know, in the most recent journey into, the last 3 or 4 years, four ish years of, deliberate non-monogamous, non unattached approaches of dating and intimacy and partnership and sex in general. The checking in with myself about tendencies of catching feels air quotes around that term, recognizing tendencies in myself that I'm now getting too emotionally attached to the time I'm spending with this person, and consciously acknowledging this is something so wonderful.

00:52:13:02 - 00:52:54:02

Nico

And in a monogamous sense, this is where the relationship would turn into something that becomes about shouldering one another's emotional happiness. Above all else. Those are some tendencies that I have been acknowledging I don't need in my life presently, because I'm very good at doing that. But the time and place that I'm at now, going forward in a way where I'm not beholden to someone else's complete emotional happiness, in addition to physical well-being and safety and pleasure that has become a baseline of of my existence in sensuality, sexuality.

00:52:54:02 - 00:53:20:06

Nico

Now, being able to communicate where and when attachment tendencies are are starting to form and saying, I'm feeling this and I'm going to make this choice, to communicate that this is where I'm drawing a line, I'm going to take a little space, let's get together another time in a day or two or a week or two or a month or two.

00:53:20:08 - 00:53:47:16

Nico

And something that has been helpful with that is that I've also spent several, the last several years going to visit family and having other pursuits and some professional pursuits abroad. So physical space and seasonal travel has also been, helpful to enhance forming my love life patterns.

00:53:48:15 - 00:54:03:15

Luna

Yes. It sounds like the containers you're creating right now prioritize a certain level of like autonomy and exploration while still being really present with your lovers. Am I understanding you?

00:54:03:17 - 00:54:42:09

Nico

Very well put and in the sense of a all or nothing Scorpio as I typically function, are you? I'm very much so. However, as that all or nothing intensity being my constant baseline, I'm taking that intensity and trying to find ways in which balancing it, both spatially and in time is, an asset instead of being, all in and not being able to rebalance into my own time and space.

00:54:42:09 - 00:54:57:19

Luna

And it's totally at that, as you were saying, that I had a vision of like, you, the Scorpio, as like an intense laser beam that just like, goes fully into something else and gives it power source versus like your laser beam going into a prism that's reflected everywhere and back to you.

00:54:57:19 - 00:55:37:06

Nico

And those moments where I draw myself back. Yeah, in previous times in my life, I would have this tremendous guilt of selfishness, of taking back my time and space that was almost impossible. I found myself into, intense, monogamous, very serious, loving relationships, which ended up becoming very painful when they fell apart or ended because of that intensity, because I was not able to find ways to reinvest in myself that didn't have this overwhelming negative selfishness attached to it.

00:55:37:10 - 00:56:11:22

Nico

So now, as I've been mentioned before, liberating that word of connotation. That's selfishness is not something to be shame ashamed of. And to invest in myself, which would be previously considered selfish in ways that it's like overwhelmingly positive and creative. And I don't have the subconscious connection to shame or guilt or feeling like I'm not showing up for someone because I'm giving myself that time and space and right.

00:56:12:00 - 00:56:19:00

Nico

Managing that is different every day where it'll be a year from now, I don't know, ten years from now.

00:56:19:02 - 00:56:40:04

Luna

Even if you thought you did, you don't really know. We never we don't know what next second's going to be. Exactly. It sounds like in those previous instances of the we'll call it monogamous crinkle moments, it sounds like there was a part of you that was maybe quiet, but very clearly saying, I need space for myself, I need I have a need for myself.

00:56:40:10 - 00:56:57:22

Luna

But there was a a larger part that sounds like maybe it was someone else's should like a being should being like you shouldn't. You shouldn't want that. You shouldn't, you shouldn't. You know, almost like whac-a-mole our needs, which I know a lot of people have reported to me that they do completely. I mean, I have my own past versions of that.

00:56:58:00 - 00:57:20:16

Luna

Okay. So we have already learned that your shame meter is hovering around a three right now on a scale where ten is high and zero is I don't have shame. Can you reflect on when if ever it has squiggle in the past? Like when it was up? When it was down? Like, tell us a little bit about your historical shame or coaster.

00:57:20:21 - 00:57:21:18

Luna

00:57:21:20 - 00:57:50:21

Nico

Yes. In your introduction, there was some mentioned about my kind of timeline of development as an individual, and I'm a self-professed late bloomer in addition to being a lifelong intense Scorpio and all that. I think that a lot of my approach in my love life prior to the last 4 or 5 years has been, because of being somewhat of a late bloomer, both physically and sexually.

00:57:52:01 - 00:58:44:03

Nico

Going through early parts of life feeling perhaps not attractive to those who I found attractive or, you know, very typical common teenager things of that sense. But I feel that when the late bloom caught up to the physiological, now I'm not late bloomer anymore. Whatever the need for acknowledgment and worth dictated a lot of the, baseline that I went into relationships with, needing to feel valued by the gaze of my partner, needing to feel worthy of them, needing to feel that I can please them and be their source of happiness.

00:58:44:05 - 00:58:46:04

Luna

No pressure, no no pressure.

00:58:46:06 - 00:59:21:19

Nico

All those aspects that are like the deeper layer of the term confidence. Those, took a lot of time to understand and develop, and it's really only in retrospect and through working on myself, the way that I've been able to acknowledge and go back to those times and figure out where either self-loathing is part of it. Other points that I felt that aspect of shame that contributed to needing to find partners that I would give all of myself to, and that they would say, now I am yours.

00:59:21:19 - 00:59:29:05

Nico

Here is all of my emotion that I'm going to place on your shoulders. So everything you do or don't do affects me emotionally.

00:59:29:11 - 00:59:34:00

Luna

It's no pressure, like a lot of work to be such a and then container.

00:59:34:01 - 01:00:18:07

Nico

Add on top of that the context of being this intensely passionate Scorpio who is all or nothing type. It really became challenging to acknowledge that needing to find a way to balance myself going forward was important. I never really figured out that I needed to give myself the chance to balance and still also find intimacy, so that has manifested itself in ways that, at this current point in time, monogamous relationships aren't part of that equation.

01:00:18:09 - 01:00:36:10

Luna

What's your definition of late bloomer? Because it sounds like we have a few blooms. Yes. Like how are you identify like because for me, I was like I was a late bloomer. I don't lose my virginity till I was 19.5. And I tried for time that I got a lot of no's. And so I thought I wasn't desirable for a long time.

01:00:36:10 - 01:00:37:10

Luna

You know, I'm still.

01:00:37:12 - 01:00:37:21

Nico

You know.

01:00:37:22 - 01:00:46:02

Luna

Shocked when someone who I think is the bee's knees is like, I think your face meltingly attractive. I'm like.

01:00:46:04 - 01:00:49:07

Nico

Right.

01:00:49:09 - 01:00:52:20

Luna

Yeah. So what's your definition of late bloomer? Yeah.

01:00:52:22 - 01:01:19:21

Nico

I feel that puberty hit me maybe 2 to 3 years later than all of my friends, or my perceptive observation of my group of friends or classmates or whatever. And that really continued on for 5 or 6 years. I feel like up until I was in my early 20s, I still looked like I was about 15 or 16.

01:01:19:22 - 01:01:20:09

Nico

01:01:21:00 - 01:01:23:10

Luna

Oh yes. Young people don't like.

01:01:23:10 - 01:02:02:04

Nico

That now and then the, you know, the typical storyline of the young teenage girls that I maybe had an eye on wanting, you know, the 4 or 5 year old older looking, hypermasculine, bearded, strong alpha type badasses, quote unquote, enacted this sort of self-reflection of comparisons and self-judgment and then self-loathing and things that go into the, problematic, recipe of teenage years.

01:02:02:04 - 01:02:09:14

Nico

Yeah, I think going into my 20s that started to catch up. I lost my virginity.

01:02:09:18 - 01:02:30:04

Luna

Oh, yeah. Okay, let's work in sexy details. Okay. But if you're going to do that, rewind and tell us how you really started learning about sex. Like work in the blooming, however it happens. But, like, when is the first time you remember hearing about it? Like conceptually, did you get a sex talk? What did you learn growing up and then get into your first experiences?

01:02:30:06 - 01:03:00:00

Nico

I have one parent who is Scandinavian. I have one parent who is American who also lived in Scandinavia for a while, and I was very lucky that because one of those parents worked for the airlines, we had a lot of free flights back to the homeland, so to speak. So culturally, I never really felt completely American, even though I was, yes, born and bred here in Southern California, it has never really felt completely like home.

01:03:00:02 - 01:03:36:23

Nico

And culturally, my understanding and awareness of other ways of life, other society structures. Even though I wasn't consciously acknowledging it, I was perceiving it. Scandinavia stereotypically has a pretty progressive view of gender and intimacy and quote unquote, decency standards. So I was definitely exposed to an overwhelming positive association with body image gender roles specifically.

01:03:36:23 - 01:03:37:21

Luna

Like, what do you remember?

01:03:37:23 - 01:04:22:08

Nico

I mean, a liberal approach to nudity in public, okay. Or in the home? And then, you know, little kid questions of what? Why is this body this way or what is that for? And yeah, those were the kind of the earliest, exposures to sex. And on an anatomical realm, in an anatomical way, I think as I got older and through movies and, images of, you know, seemingly attractive bombshell actresses or something like that, that started a bit of, you know, curiosity about, attractiveness in a sexual way.

01:04:24:06 - 01:04:54:02

Nico

And then the hormones catch up eventually as well. And, you know, I remember distinctly of. Yes, coming back from summer vacation before fifth grade, suddenly. So and so, girl, that was just on the playground before is suddenly telling my brain, you should look at this. Why does my brain suddenly recognize and register? This is a being that I am now attracted to in a way that I never was before.

01:04:54:04 - 01:05:53:18

Nico

I think everyone has a similar story and experience with that, so I certainly had that, and that certainly continued for a long time and evolved as we all got older and those developments continued. And that's also when I started to realize, well, why am I not maybe developing like that? And that's, you know, in hindsight, I realized in that I was this late bloomer, physically late into puberty, even though mentally I was, if anything, my, internalized version of what I was seeing and exposed to and the thoughts around that added to my sort of observations and my hyper detailed perception of the early utilizations of my visual senses, that kind of intensity.

01:05:53:18 - 01:05:59:11

Nico

Scorpio. Overthinking was very apparent and applied to early.

01:05:59:13 - 01:06:15:17

Luna

Okay. Remember, the label of overthinking is often applied by people who just don't want to listen to our words. I'm just going to say that like I know that it exists for some people. I know that we can get caught up in mind loops and monkey mind loops, but there's a beauty to the thinking, right? Did you get a sex talk?

01:06:15:17 - 01:06:18:20

Luna

Like, did you get like a little sex time? Did you have sex ed in school? What was that like?

01:06:19:00 - 01:06:38:06

Nico

There's sex ed in school, but I definitely got the uncomfortable talk with mom about. Oh, you know, these are things that are going to happen, and and, you might want to do this or think about this in terms of girls and bodies.

01:06:38:06 - 01:06:47:15

Luna

And how old were you? And are we allowed to know if mom was the Scandinavian mom? Is the Scandinavian okay, okay okay, okay, okay, there we go. Okay. But you were uncomfortable. Yeah.

01:06:47:15 - 01:06:57:15

Nico

I, you know, wanted to divert the, the uncomfort pretty quickly, so. Yes, yes, I understand, I know, thank you. I know, I did.

01:06:57:15 - 01:07:01:19

Luna

You know you already knew or. No, no. You were. Oh. So, like, how did you know.

01:07:01:21 - 01:07:03:15

Nico

I was,

01:07:03:17 - 01:07:16:04

Luna

Wait, I just it anyone who was watching me, his face was so cute. He was like, no, like he did a specific eyebrow movement. Okay. It's like. See, I can't tell from just looking at eyeballs.

01:07:16:06 - 01:07:52:16

Nico

And then I turned 15, and I remember spending the summer, my 15th year in Scandinavia, and having permission to go out on the town again, culturally and legally, in that country. In Scandinavia, the drinking age for beer doesn't really formally exist for purchasing alcohol in a supermarket. I think you have to be like 15 to go to nightclubs with alcohol.

01:07:52:20 - 01:07:55:13

Nico

It's like 16. Oh, at least it was at that time.

01:07:55:13 - 01:08:17:13

Luna

Yeah, in Germany it was 16 for beer and 18 for like going to get a mixed drink. But I remember like, I spent my 16 year old summer in Germany and I was I drink a zombie, which, I later found out when I was a bartender, I was like, oh, my God, that's so much alcohol. And I just remember being so squiggly with like, a black light.

01:08:17:13 - 01:08:20:03

Luna

And so it's like, yeah, yeah, they did not give a fuck.

01:08:20:03 - 01:08:46:14

Nico

And yes, and there's always cases of like people overdoing it. And there's a lot of components where excess can be a negative thing. However, the overwhelming majority of my experience was that this was like a very positive, festive, free of taboo environment. And I never felt there was anything bad about it or threatening or hide this from mom or whatever.

01:08:46:14 - 01:09:20:14

Nico

So I got this like permission to grow up that age. That time and around that same time too, was like some of the first experiences of flirting. And I specifically remember this one, what you would now call cougar taking an interest in me and, straddling me at, you know, as I'm sitting in a chair at a bar and that was maybe one of the first, like, physical encounters I ever had around that same time.

01:09:20:14 - 01:09:48:23

Nico

But also this, this notion of total freedom and trust spurned this, like confidence or early earliest forms of confidence in myself and my ability to, like, go forth in the world and, and then view the world and view the people in the world differently. And to do that in a place where there's some very attractive people of all genders, I happen to be attracted to women overwhelmingly.

01:09:49:01 - 01:10:26:19

Nico

And there that's so far. And there are, some very esthetically beautiful women, in my opinion, that I first became aware of when I was there at that time. It has since then completely expanded beyond borders and cultures and dynamics and all that. But from early on and sort of embedded in my DNA, this, this, perception of this like liberated, sexually conferred and Scandinavian woman was like profound.

01:10:27:16 - 01:10:49:22

Luna

Cool. Also, I totally feel that my, official orientation is kind of sexual. My kind of sexual. This like that. There's there kindness there. Okay. Take us through your personal timeline of learnings, like just, you know, firsts are not the most important, but they often lay down patterns, you know, but take us through some of the things that you've discovered about yourself.

01:10:50:00 - 01:11:16:12

Nico

Well, I certainly was not getting any, attention from any women around my own age for a long time. Well, up until I was in my kind of early 20s, I don't think I legitimately thought anyone my own age was into me also, because I, again, felt like I looked 3 or 4 years younger than my numerical age was in some senses.

01:11:16:12 - 01:11:40:06

Nico

I befriended people who were younger than me in in many situations. But also my for some reason I was getting attention from older women, like significantly older women at that time, which may or may not have been that quote unquote cougar straddling me in Copenhagen in 2001.

01:11:40:12 - 01:11:42:16

Luna

But,

01:11:42:18 - 01:12:04:22

Nico

But even going forward after that, I don't know, something about my ability to speak or some aspects of people saying, oh, Nico's an old soul. Maybe that is something that made it so I could actually formulate sentences and speak to women that were older than me.

01:12:04:23 - 01:12:16:10

Luna

Did you agree with that? I got called an old soul when I was in teenage years, and I remember being like, oh, I think I'm a brand new baby here. I don't know what the fuck is happening on this planet.

01:12:16:14 - 01:12:29:10

Nico

That's another interesting question. I don't think I've ever really felt part of my own generation. So yes, I think people who started saying like, oh, this is an old soul. There is something to that.

01:12:29:11 - 01:12:38:16

Luna

I mean, that makes sense if you can like, look at eyeballs and have an experience, not need a thousand million words like it seems like there's a old soul vibe there.

01:12:38:21 - 01:13:05:13

Nico

Something to that nature. And then maybe in some self defensive ways of fear of rejection or being exposed to my whatever early forms of advances on girls my own age being roundly rejected, or unwanted, that kind of self preservation of like, maybe I don't want to put myself in a place where I'm, I know I'm probably going to get hurt by rejection.

01:13:05:15 - 01:13:16:00

Nico

That was sort of replaced by, well, Cougar is giving me perhaps some attention that maybe won't hurt.

01:13:16:01 - 01:13:16:23

Luna

01:13:17:01 - 01:13:46:03

Nico

The same way as young classmates that I want to, pursue rejected me to my face. Yeah, yeah. Again, this very early form of self-deprecation, association with shame, being unworthy, which became something attached to my, my, development of early age and going forward as an intimate individual.

01:13:46:05 - 01:14:04:05

Luna

So when did you start becoming a physically intimate individual, like, tell us about your first actual experiences that followed that straddling of 2001? The straddling of 2001, another chapter title, but maybe just a little, a little lakeside bullet point.

01:14:04:07 - 01:14:45:07

Nico

I definitely put a lot of time towards releasing energy and body development and those aspects perhaps started jump started a bit of that and of the late bloomer, so that by the time I was finishing high school, going into early college years, I was just just catching up to not looking like a little kid anymore. I stopped playing sports when I realized that, even though I loved the games I played and my mental engagement in the sports that I took major enjoyment from could not continue in a physical sense.

01:14:45:07 - 01:15:04:20

Nico

I stopped playing sports. I picked up instruments, I picked up cameras. I started getting involved in that form of storytelling and that kind of alter ego creatively as well, which also has aspects of, sexual energy to it as well.

01:15:04:22 - 01:15:20:04

Luna

Oh yeah. And my favorite kind of voyeurism is with a camera. Like I'll watch just regular watching too, don't get me wrong. Invite me into the bedroom corner. But like, if I can have a camera in hand or even just a phone to record, like, I'm like, no, I mean the.

01:15:20:08 - 01:15:42:00

Nico

Stuff, the voyeuristic aspects of that, I happen to also be someone who, is quite pale in complexion and I have a very touchy relationship to the sun. So on a biological level, I excel in fog and cold weather and rain and.

01:15:42:00 - 01:15:47:09

Luna

Such a funny way to say it. And forests and mountains.

01:15:47:11 - 01:15:55:02

Nico

So being born and bred and living most of my life in Southern California, I was completely sunburned.

01:15:55:04 - 01:15:59:09

Luna

All the time. Yeah, I have, I have the hands and coverage and oh yeah, yeah.

01:15:59:11 - 01:16:04:23

Nico

I literally have sunburnt hands right now because I was on a job in the desert today.

01:16:04:23 - 01:16:07:20

Luna

I get used to wearing my fingerless driving gloves.

01:16:07:20 - 01:16:08:10

Nico

People don't.

01:16:08:10 - 01:16:09:17

Luna

Understand. They don't understand.

01:16:09:17 - 01:16:39:20

Nico

So something that has become part of my, origin story of life deals with the fact that in Southern California, I would spend the first two weeks of summer vacation being invited by friends to go to the beach and run around in the sun and whatever. And then I would spend the consecutive remaining 10 to 14 weeks of summer vacation indoors, skin peeling off of my limbs and back and everything completely miserable.

01:16:39:21 - 01:16:42:05

Luna

Well done. Someone about sunscreen?

01:16:42:09 - 01:17:07:11

Nico

Oh yes, my mother did, of course, and I would put it on every single day, even when it was foggy. Some of the worst sunburns I've ever had in my life are on overcast days. Yeah, so incredibly painful. Well, as I'm sitting inside in summer vacation alone, me, myself, and I and my peeling skin, music and films were the things that could take my mind on a emotional journey.

01:17:07:17 - 01:17:49:23

Nico

So I thank my Los Angeles City Public Library for all the hundreds of films that I rented for free to take my mind off of how completely painful I was. Sunburn. But in that process, to bring things in for context, my relationship to the emotions that come through artistic expression and the storyline and experiences that developed my relationship to sensual subject matters through stories and songs or artistic expression and movies cannot be understated as being.

01:17:50:01 - 01:17:51:18

Luna

Clearly and overly.

01:17:51:18 - 01:17:54:23

Nico

Time stamped in those sunburnt teenage years.

01:17:54:23 - 01:17:59:17

Luna

Wait, like what? Like you discovered kinky thing. Or, like, tell us what stand out.

01:17:59:18 - 01:18:08:05

Nico

Okay, well, I'm being the old soul that I am. I would watch old films, so like old Hollywood starlets and Marilyn Monroe.

01:18:08:05 - 01:18:09:14

Luna

Some like it hot.

01:18:09:16 - 01:18:11:21

Nico

Some like it hot is in my.

01:18:11:21 - 01:18:12:18

Luna

Absolute favorite.

01:18:12:18 - 01:18:48:13

Nico

Top 2 or 3 films of all time. I also have a relative in Scandinavia who had a vintage porn collection of old pinup style magazines from like the 50s and 60s that was kept, and I stumbled onto, which was very illuminating. And, so even to this day, I, you know, vintage pinup, traditional pose, kink, you know, Bettie Page bangs, forget about it.

01:18:48:15 - 01:18:49:23

Luna

Here for it.

01:18:50:00 - 01:19:03:13

Nico

And even modern reincarnations of those classic, simple, not over-the-top kink stylings. I love it.

01:19:04:14 - 01:19:18:02

Luna

Yeah. Okay. I bet you're really good at foreplay, but I'm very eager to hear about your actual sexy details. But also I'm now realizing we didn't even talk about masturbation. No, I'm assuming you had discovered it by this point.

01:19:18:07 - 01:19:24:05

Nico

Yes. By this point, definitely. Technique was not to refined.

01:19:24:06 - 01:19:29:10

Luna

You've developed it since then, I have. Can you give us the overview? Give us the article. Your masturbation.

01:19:32:08 - 01:19:39:19

Nico

I'm right handed. And yet the left hand is the only tool for soft pleasure.

01:19:39:19 - 01:19:40:23

Luna

Yes. Cool.

01:19:41:00 - 01:19:46:18

Nico

Somehow that is the only thing that really, took precedence.

01:19:46:22 - 01:19:49:04

Luna

So you only use one hand back then.

01:19:49:07 - 01:19:55:12

Nico

Oh, now I'm very happy to say. And I'm not tooting my own horn too much here, but.

01:19:55:15 - 01:19:55:19

Luna

You.

01:19:55:19 - 01:19:56:17

Nico

Can,

01:19:56:18 - 01:19:58:07

Luna

This is exactly the place where you can.

01:19:58:09 - 01:20:33:13

Nico

I'm pretty excited that I tend to integrate ambidextrous tendencies with lovemaking and foreplay and aftercare, and being able to sustain the longevity of intimate moments by being able to switch what hand is being utilized, in what capacity, and in synchronicity with a mouth or other body parts. That ties back to teenage me realizing that I can whack it with my left hand just as well as I can with my right, and continuing in that sense.

01:20:33:15 - 01:21:04:20

Nico

So, you know, this was just around like pre-internet as well, like the odd VA, VHS tape that would circulate around groups of friends or the, the information that would be shared at 13 years old or 12 years old of so-and-so's grandmother's television in the guest house, doesn't have a scrambler on channel 98 and 99. The young ones these days and into the future will never know what it was like.

01:21:04:22 - 01:21:05:18

Luna

Trying to.

01:21:05:18 - 01:21:07:14

Nico

Decipher scrambled.

01:21:07:20 - 01:21:13:12

Luna

Yeah, I don't know. I've heard of scramble porn too. And just like I'm getting the little signals, but like, yeah.

01:21:13:14 - 01:21:17:18

Nico

Fun times. So you know that. Listen, that.

01:21:17:20 - 01:21:21:09

Luna

Limited access, socially related young explorations.

01:21:21:09 - 01:21:21:23

Nico

Of course.

01:21:21:23 - 01:21:24:00

Luna

Okay. I mean, I'm not it's not a given.

01:21:24:00 - 01:22:02:08

Nico

It's not a given. But, it was certainly present and, and part of, curiosities and all that. Now going back over to Europe in summers of formative years and also this, you know, lack of attached shame to intimacy and pornographic images even as well, you know, the fact that you could go down to the supermarket and purchase magazines if you wanted to, that would be completely unheard of as a young teenager in California at that same time.

01:22:02:08 - 01:22:08:13

Nico

So. And, because I'm so freaking overwhelmingly nostalgic, I still have.

01:22:08:13 - 01:22:12:21

Luna

Them, I love them. I want to look at up. I look at one.

01:22:12:23 - 01:22:44:19

Nico

Just place a lot of, nostalgia upon certain things. So I just kind of squirrel them away. If I have a reason to. So opening up old boxes from old timers and old years and postcards from so and so, and little trinkets of memories and time and space associations. And then that manila envelope that I filled with, Danish and Swedish porn magazines.

01:22:44:21 - 01:22:53:19

Nico

I still have them. And they bring back a lot of fun, memorable moments in time. And no, the pages are not stuck together.

01:22:53:21 - 01:22:54:07

Luna

I guess I.

01:22:54:07 - 01:22:56:10

Nico

Wasn't too extreme. All of this was like.

01:22:56:11 - 01:22:58:01

Luna

You were careful about your treasures.

01:22:58:06 - 01:23:31:13

Nico

I think, especially in relation to today's overwhelming access to anything at any time on any device that you can find. I had a pretty standard non overly perverted respect for relationship to the presence of pornography that was available at the time I enjoyed, but it definitely did not become something that was like a total obsession or something. Overblown.

01:23:31:15 - 01:23:35:04

Nico

Okay was like little icing on the cake of life at that time.

01:23:35:06 - 01:23:56:19

Luna

Okay, I am dying to hear when you sexually touched another human being for the first time. And I also just want to know about your kinks and, like, what have you learned? What have you discovered? Sounds like your kink letter. It sounds like there's lots of as little mom nog me learnings happening. But yes, take us through the learning like like get to the touching please.

01:23:56:19 - 01:23:58:11

Luna

There's my favorite.

01:23:58:13 - 01:24:26:03

Nico

It is a absolute favorite of mine now. And as a favorite pastime, my relationship to rejection and self-loathing turned me into someone who, took a look with don't touch approach for a long time. And I think some of that has still played into some of my later development of like, understanding it now and some of the king of TS and denial of both roles.

01:24:26:03 - 01:24:54:20

Nico

If I'm either in a more submissive role, which can be very enjoyable depending on the dynamic and partner, as well as being dominant. With partners, being able to harness my relationship to tease in denial from a context of literally feeling denied and having a voyeuristic relationship to stimulating attractive sites, but never pursuing.

01:24:54:20 - 01:24:59:01

Luna

Them. Like this story feeling of that's not for me, yes, but it is for.

01:24:59:04 - 01:25:32:06

Nico

Convincing myself that it's not for me. Right? But then hyper fixating in every detail upon what I'm seeing and the senses and the tone of the light as it's coming across, and the way that that body moves in those pants on that school blacktop versus I became a student of sensual, voyeuristic relationship to look, but don't touch.

01:25:32:09 - 01:25:33:04

Luna

01:25:33:06 - 01:25:59:08

Nico

I think the first time that a girl was into me, to the point where I said I should allow myself to have this intimate moment, even though maybe I knew I didn't want to date this person, I didn't want to, like, have a high school girlfriend with so-and-so, who clearly was forward enough to me to say, let's make out.

01:25:59:08 - 01:26:11:06

Nico

Or, you know, signaling which I was quite oblivious to because I would just write myself off ahead of time, like, you know, don't put yourself out there. You'll just mess it up somehow.

01:26:11:08 - 01:26:12:08

Luna

Yeah.

01:26:12:10 - 01:26:42:00

Nico

Point the finger, wag the finger. I had already left for college, but because I was friends with those who were younger than I was, and I went to college not too far away from where high school was, I would get invited back as kind of like the elder statesman of our group of friends. And so one of the girls from that wider group was literally called me up and said, come over and watch a movie with me.

01:26:42:02 - 01:26:43:20

Luna

And you knew what that meant.

01:26:43:20 - 01:26:45:05

Nico

I had no idea what that night.

01:26:45:05 - 01:26:47:13

Luna

I didn't know either. Okay. Yeah.

01:26:47:15 - 01:26:53:11

Nico

But it became apparent that, I should have known.

01:26:53:18 - 01:26:55:14

Luna

I don't believe and should have.

01:26:55:16 - 01:27:22:16

Nico

Because, me being me, we watched the entire movie all the way to the end, and I still didn't make a move. I became it became a part of my, history of pursuit or not. Not pursuit of being terrible at making the first move or the stereotypical, you know, male aggressive tendency of you should make the first move because you're the man.

01:27:22:16 - 01:27:32:00

Luna

Which is a tricky thing, because then it's a it's a silly signal because then lots of men are making moves in. The women's are like, you. I didn't want it, you know, just like that. Talk to each other.

01:27:32:00 - 01:27:49:22

Nico

Just that aspect alone that is kind of integrated into teenage years is a huge factor in the, larger situational, issues that come from like a overwhelmingly patriarchal society.

01:27:49:22 - 01:28:08:02

Luna

And or just think of, oh, you go back to Star Wars so often, and how many times is Princess Leia like, no, no, no, no. And Han Solo was like, You know, and that's romantic. I love those characters. But like that's what we learned. We learned that it's like hot for guys to pursue and push past a no until it's a yes.

01:28:08:04 - 01:28:28:15

Luna

And it's like not very helpful for a lot of people. And here you are looking back at a time where you, like, accepted the invitation that was explicitly offered. Yes. But do you think they're actually you? It sounds like you believe that you were supposed to make a move. And were you, like, thinking about that the whole time, or was it, were you, like, totally oblivious and like, with my lady friend watching a movie?

01:28:28:15 - 01:28:30:17

Luna

Like, what do you remember about the emotional.

01:28:30:17 - 01:28:44:21

Nico

Texture of it? I remember the movie credits rolling and her hand reaching into my pants. Oh, because all the way up until that point I barely, you know, brushed my hand against her thigh. There was no.

01:28:44:21 - 01:28:45:20

Luna

Like, build up.

01:28:45:20 - 01:28:54:08

Nico

I could not take a clue or a hint that so-and-so girl wants me to.

01:28:54:10 - 01:28:55:19

Luna

Make up for the movie.

01:28:55:19 - 01:28:56:01

Nico

Yes.

01:28:56:06 - 01:29:08:19

Luna

Oh my gosh, that is so confusing. Because, like, literally, I would when someone don't give me a red herring if you set me up on a task and then you start distracting me from the task, I will become confused. I don't know it.

01:29:08:21 - 01:29:22:18

Nico

And so I'm already a freshman in college, and I'm still at this point of, you know, that's like the historical time stamp of like where I am age wise versus where I am intimacy wise. Yeah.

01:29:22:20 - 01:29:24:15

Luna

Sounds like there's some self judgment around that too.

01:29:24:15 - 01:29:37:19

Nico

Completely. Okay. Just completely, overthinking or under thinking, my own, you know, how those aspects go towards, developing what we would consider confidence in oneself.

01:29:37:20 - 01:29:41:20

Luna

You know, where you got those, like, shades of here's what confidence looks like.

01:29:41:22 - 01:29:43:06

Nico

Not off the top of my head.

01:29:43:06 - 01:29:46:15

Luna

You know, I'm just like, I had them too. But I'm like, yeah.

01:29:46:17 - 01:30:14:03

Nico

I think I just could recognize that rejection hurt or being overlooked, or thought less of was unpleasant at an early age. So that kind of added to a bit of, just write myself off ahead of time or just, you know, look, but don't touch or don't assume that now's the time to get to it. So here I am.

01:30:14:03 - 01:30:15:23

Luna

So she put her in night pants.

01:30:16:00 - 01:30:39:10

Nico

19. Yes, it was great. It was a lot of, I got a handjob and I don't I remember coming intensely, even though there was no lubricant of any kind involved. And I think we were in her brother's bed.

01:30:39:12 - 01:30:39:19

Luna

And.

01:30:39:19 - 01:30:52:13

Nico

I, to this day, feel like eventually there would have been some ejaculate somewhere that I still don't know where it is. But in hindsight, I fear that,

01:30:52:15 - 01:31:01:03

Nico

It was an intense climax, even, that, you know, a very inexperienced, time point. Can.

01:31:01:03 - 01:31:05:04

Luna

Your load doesn't care about experience? No, not at all.

01:31:06:09 - 01:31:30:12

Nico

I think a little bit later, maybe a week or two later, it was pretty apparent that she wanted me to come back and that next time was in her bed. And that was the first oral sex. Either way around, like with my first exploration to now what I fully, enthusiastically, passionately enjoy.

01:31:30:13 - 01:31:33:18

Luna

Tell us what you love about oral giving and receiving. Please.

01:31:33:20 - 01:32:03:14

Nico

That first experience was definitely eye opening, and the, feelings of a mouth and a tongue and lips, even to the most inexperienced. Or I'm not sure how many times that that girl might have had experience with oral sex prior. But it was certainly, a mind blowing, sensation sensory experience for me at that time, which I still enjoy very much.

01:32:03:19 - 01:32:49:21

Nico

However, the tendencies for me as a lover, I find my enthusiasm for being the first act in what turns into a reciprocal process of giving and receiving oral sex, my enthusiasm and the presence of pussy eating as foreplay. For me, mentally, the quality of sex on a completely self-reflective judgment I feel I enjoy and I feel that my quote unquote performance as a lover is so much better and so much more passionate and intense, and longevity and vigor.

01:32:49:23 - 01:32:54:15

Nico

If I eat pussy before anything else happens.

01:32:54:15 - 01:33:10:21

Luna

See, you get superpowers from pussy eating. Yes. I wonder if it's like a flavor or a taste or smell thing. I mean, that's real for people. Have you ever had a partner that's like, that's off the table for me? Like, do you feel like that hampers you? You really think in terms of performance that surprises me, just based on all of our conversations?

01:33:10:23 - 01:33:32:11

Nico

Well, I try to alleviate comparisons for many reasons, and self-judgment. And so like placing evaluations on performance is something that I still try to not participate in, even though I'm always evaluating myself by default, even.

01:33:32:12 - 01:33:40:03

Luna

What have you on yourself for? How much pleasure am I experiencing and creating? What is that part of it for you?

01:33:40:04 - 01:34:07:13

Nico

A huge part of it is attached to this notion of selfishness, where that if I, if I still feel like I am more like my pleasure is more of a priority than my partner's pleasure, there is this aspect of that negative connotation of selfishness, of taking that I, I, I am worthy of receiving something from someone else without there, without a reciprocation to at least balance.

01:34:07:13 - 01:34:08:22

Luna

And

01:34:09:00 - 01:34:35:08

Nico

So I think mentally for me, which the brain is the largest erogenous zone and the way that our brains function during intimacy is like something that is extremely a source of curiosity and passion of mine to understand better how all that works. But I know for me personally, initiating and following through and prioritizing my partner's pleasure lends to my.

01:34:35:14 - 01:34:39:11

Nico

When it's my turn, I feel that I have earned my turn.

01:34:39:13 - 01:34:55:09

Luna

Is it like checking boxes? Oh, because I can fucking tell when I have. It's always a do no event when I have a partner that's like, I only care about your pleasure. And then they're like one, two, three, four. I'm not saying this is you, but I'm like these instances and then they don't even fully receive from me.

01:34:55:09 - 01:35:18:05

Luna

And I'm like, well, you know, because for me, I can't like, words are so hard because I cannot suffer rate like the giving is the receiving both directions. But I had a partner recently that was just like, oh, I really had to, like, lean into receiving and like, a love. And I was like, because I was actively doing gestures.

01:35:18:05 - 01:35:31:17

Luna

I was going down as a partner, and I was like, you were giving. And my partner was like, I don't know, I was receiving it. I was like, you were giving and receive. What do you mean? You know? So I get caught in that loop.

01:35:31:19 - 01:35:49:07

Nico

Here is where sitting and talking about it sounds like it's checking boxes, or it sounds like it's premeditated or has nuances, or it has a timeline or it's, you know, something that has beats and, you know, overtures and whatever.

01:35:49:09 - 01:35:53:20

Luna

I think it's like, how do you know when your partner's pleasure is like, boop them first? Do you.

01:35:53:20 - 01:36:04:14

Nico

Mean there's something that when you infuse personally speaking, I feel that there is a Scorpio passion overload that takes over my.

01:36:04:14 - 01:36:05:08

Luna

Intimacy.

01:36:05:13 - 01:36:28:07

Nico

And I go beyond recognition of myself in certain cases when I am turned on and when I am present with my lover and I'm in a place where foreplay is 1,000%, I lose all sense of this is what's happening now. This is what's happening next. This is what my left hand is doing. This is my.

01:36:28:09 - 01:36:30:20

Luna

The sex version of eyeball looking.

01:36:30:20 - 01:36:31:12

Nico

Yeah.

01:36:31:14 - 01:36:32:19

Luna

And you can feel it.

01:36:32:21 - 01:37:14:06

Nico

And the eyeball looking and the eye gazing while pussy eating is taking place is like next level like gazing, because nothing else exists except for what that sensory soul experiences, taking place in real time. I feel more present and more alive and more in my body in this time and place, in that moment, even before there's any sort of male centric penetration, reciprocation, like that moment of foreplay where my lover's pleasure is something that has no like, it's completely uninhibited in that moment.

01:37:14:06 - 01:37:18:02

Nico

That is something that is just profoundly enjoyable.

01:37:18:05 - 01:37:41:06

Luna

Very different from checking a box completely. It's funny because as I'm hearing you talk, I'm like, okay, I think I maybe run into a battle of wills sometimes because I like to get physically teased a lot, like when I have a partner go straight to pussy pleasure or nipple pleasure, you know, like, and that's good too, for certain contexts.

01:37:41:06 - 01:38:05:21

Luna

Right. But I love to be aroused for so long, which is why I often will receive via an active role first, you know, and I have generous, loving, caring partners that are like, I want to take care of you. And I was like, you will be my joy. Like, let me fucking touch you. Like, let me wake up your body because I want to draw the experience how I know, I know, I know how to do it.

01:38:05:21 - 01:38:07:00

Luna

And I'll show you.

01:38:07:02 - 01:38:53:18

Nico

Something that I was thinking about leading up to this recording session. To that I'm glad that I'm thinking about right now, because there's when I just describe what I described, it's really good. It's not like flipping a switch and it's not like dive right to the clitoris. Foreplay is like a dial being slowly turned up and turned back down and turn back up and turn back down, and the pace and the patience that goes into that slow build up and tease and subtle touch and eye gaze and hair touch and motion and breath.

01:38:53:18 - 01:39:25:14

Nico

And there's so many aspects that go into that enjoyment of foreplay and this energetic presence, whether that be presenting I'm here with my partner, or I'm making it known that I'm presenting to my partners pleasure zones and from head to toe, like some of the most erotic zones are the ones that are most neglected. And I think that so many aspects.

01:39:25:14 - 01:39:26:03

Luna

What do you like to.

01:39:26:03 - 01:39:37:00

Nico

Not know well, a breasts, right. Typically it's thought, oh, the nipple is the the key to the breast in my unprofessional experience.

01:39:37:00 - 01:39:39:19

Luna

Personal wisdom, personal wisdom. That's what you're here to.

01:39:39:19 - 01:40:17:11

Nico

Share with certain partners. The underside of the breast, or the tiniest little hairs that are along the inside of the cleavage when those are barely touched, or the breath of a warm exhale touches them while hands are on other parts of bodies or, you know, massaging certain body parts while a mouth is breathing or gently licking that very outer parts of a breast.

01:40:17:15 - 01:40:18:18

Luna

Oh yeah.

01:40:18:20 - 01:40:33:11

Nico

Certain partners that is like profoundly pleasurable versus like, oh, I should just lick on this nipple because the nipple gets hard when it's wet. And which by all means, I'm sure could do is also good.

01:40:33:11 - 01:40:51:18

Luna

But I'm like, I want all of it. And also, I am totally guilty of going straight for the target zones. Like I like genitals. Magnetize me, you know, like more of, you know, but but and I also know how much my body loves being touched everywhere there and having, you know, having the back and forth on everything.

01:40:51:18 - 01:40:54:21

Nico