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33 heterosexual queer Chinese man, he/him pronouns, monogamous, freelance photographer, classics scholar, lifer, from Las Vegas, into: sex, sexuality, voyeurism, documenting sexual experiences, philosophy, nihilism

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Luna

Our guest today is a 33 year old, aggressively heterosexual, monogamous Chinese queer photographer who poses as a Wasp online and uses he him pronouns and is a lifer. Infinitely curious about sex and sexuality, he identifies as a natural born voyeur and, like me, loves to document people's sexual experiences. The eye is his sexual organ. A classic scholar and freelance photographer from Las Vegas, Nevada.

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Welcome. Yay!

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Yeh

Hello. How are you.

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Doing? I am doing amazing and I'm so excited to have you here today. Could you start off? Well, first we're going to get to know you as a human being a little bit because we're definitely going to talk about sex. But first we're going to talk about love and wooing the parts that get us to sex. So first can you tell us what makes you go woo.

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So for what makes me feel woo! That's a question that I'm not really sure what it means to me, but I can say that as what makes me excited. Yeah. So typically I don't really have a wide palette of emotions. For example, excitement or guilt? Shame and fear. So that's something I've been trying to work through my photography and documentation of others.

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So again, I tell people I have like a low cognitive aspect disorder. At least that's not diagnosed.

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Yeah. I'm kind of the opposite.

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Oh really. Okay.

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I'm like oh

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Yeah I enjoy documenting sexuality. Is sexual experiences extreme complete strangers that really open up to me? So I know it's a great leap of faith and that's what really, I guess you could say colloquially, excites me.

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I love that. How did you get into documenting people's sexuality, and how do you invite that from people when they're complete strangers? Like, because usually when I'm taking pictures of very sexy things or recording someone's sexy stuff, it's either someone who I know from directly working with them or a listener of this podcast. So how do you create that space of trust for these vulnerable situations?

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I guess to make the earlier part of the long story short, I used to work in surveillance and I would have a lot of free time during my lunches to walk the Las Vegas Strip. So I bought a with camera and industry photography, and then I realized, hey, I want to maybe give professional photoshoots to the sex workers.

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So, exotic dancers, people who do webcam modeling. Then I realized that as a male. And I understand this wholeheartedly, completely that it's difficult to place trust in a stranger, especially a male. If you are, assigned female at birth or you're female, presenting is a great risk of danger. Is it going to? So I started putting more ads on Craigslist, and eventually I just got people that were willing to open up to me.

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And I realized that it's typically people that really feel they have nothing else to lose, and they're very comfortable with their sexuality or they're just absolute exhibitionist. So it's like the yin and yang completion of my voyeurism.

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So cool. Oh, we're going to I'm going to probably ask you more questions about that. Okay. But first, how do you will you.

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So when I first heard the question, I'm thinking about maybe just more self-care. So this is going to be a boring answer. I'm just wanting to do more exercise 100 routine basis and, with more frequency and increased intensity and also just not eating processed junk, keeping my sugar levels low. A lot of reading. I'm a classic scholar.

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I love reading and, just going through academic papers, University press books, as far as the diet goes, are very boring. I eat fish, chicken, and I prefer things that are just boiled, broiled or.

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Okay, I think that maybe just, let's see, how do I say this? To give you unsolicited advice. You could be for part of your self-love practice. Exercise the boring from you because you're not boring. Exercise is great. Like I. My whole sex life changed completely. Like my sex life, my emotions, my everything. When I started taking care of my body because I too, I cannot eat processed foods or sugar or alcohol or I get very sick.

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So my body was like, you got to be healthy. And then once I started adding a little bit of vigor into my life, like it has really changed my mood, my outlook, my everything. And, I mean, sleep made a big deal for me too. Made a big difference for me in my life too.

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When I think of an hour of sleep and yes, how I would do more doing other stuff.

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Yeah, and giving myself time to wind down because I'm a big reader. Now, here's a question for you. Where and how do you like to read? Is it books in your hands? Is it on a couch? Is it in the bed? Is it on a screen? Is it all sorts of places, like I like to read in the bathtub and also in bed and sometimes in my Jacuzzi.

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But what are your favorite places to like? Curling up with a book. You said white paper. So is that on a screen? Like tell us a little bit about your reading habits.

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Yeah. So the white paper was in reference to, academic or scholarly research that's published on basically, publication like Elsevier. It's like an online database of scholarly articles. But I'm a hybrid reader. I read a lot of books that are physical print. I do believe in a tangible aspect of reading. So there's a tactile part of reading where I write down notes.

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I, stop and think. I take pictures and I share my readings with other people to have, kind of like discussions like, yes, we live in the 21st century, in the digital age. So I do read a lot on PDFs, especially, with things like I do with the Southside Hub and the shadow library movement. It allows people like me who don't have a lot of fun to access research that's behind paywalls.

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And I don't know the word pirating, but you get what I mean. It's just how you get a lot of materials that can be very expensive.

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Yeah, well, I mean, providing access to information I think is an important thing. And that's what we try to do here is, you know, co-create and educate together. So that's pretty cool. Even if you like to eat simple things, do you take joy in the physical act of eating? Because for me, I am. Like I say, food is one of my love languages.

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Like food looking touch. But like I really enjoy the act of eating. Like I know that I'm at a low or high stress, low resourced mode when I'm just like putting food in my mouth and not paying attention. What is your relationship to food like?

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It's funny, I actually had this conversation with, one of your previous yes. I take absolutely no pleasure really in eating. I treat it as very functional and, mechanical. So I would eat things that would sometimes really boil. At one point I tried, making smoothies with tuna, putting honey and protein powder, and I, I really just treated it as a purely mechanistic mathematical.

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So I calculated the calories the images show and say, but I do have taste, but I am still human.

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So okay, this is literally gonna be like, do you have taste buds? That's so funny. Oh my gosh. Wow. Oh, that's so interesting. Moving on in the same vein, but a little bit different. How do you like to be wooed by another person. Like tell us what kind of love and or attention makes you melt, makes you feel good.

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So I think what makes me feel good is and this is probably what alarm me and my potential narcissism is just being obsessed over and adored sort of the counterpart of how I would, amuse or my target.

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Oh, tell us more details about when like, how do you feel? Adored. Is it mental? Is it physical? Is it emotional? Like, is it all of it? Like what? Like if someone talks, I know that I've turned people off by talking too much and asking them too many questions. I know I've turned other people off by touching them too much.

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Like, what are the things that really light you up coming from another person?

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But I really enjoy those things. Physical touch, of course. And, talking too much emotions that issue with me. I do like questions. It's just reminds me of, reading the platonic dialogs where there's a lot of, expressed curiosity and really just care about what the other person has to say.

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Yeah.

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So I really welcome questions, and I'm pretty shameless with questions I like to ask this. Typically people don't, just because you never know if this is the last time you'll meet somebody. So I treat every experience kind of like that. This is the last time I'll photographs this individual. I don't get all my best ideas out as soon as possible.

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Oh, I love that. Do you have go to questions or does it depend on person to person when you meet them?

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So I'm not sure what I could be diagnosed with, but I know I'm very socially alienated and awkward, so I use a lot of icebreakers. So I ask people this question, I meet them what is your ism? For example, what is an encapsulates your theoretical worldview? So for example, existentialism, optimism or Catholicism. Right.

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Cool. How would you answer that question yourself?

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So I always say optimistic nihilism. I just think like I, I really don't believe that there's any metaphysical reality to beliefs or any god. So I don't believe any of that. So there's nothing grounding ethics and morality. Which is not to say that I'm going to be a serial killer, that I still have cognitive morality, but I know what's right or wrong in order to better society or help people or treat them with respect.

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Have you always been this flavor of deep curiosity or. I'm putting words to describe you, but how do you understand your own curiosity? I think my ism would be curiosity ism, which is just a made up word.

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But you're more, essentially a centrist ism. Maybe it's like an or athleticism. That would be your ism.

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I want to lick everything ism. I'm like, let me taste it, let me smell it, let me touch it, let me understand it. But like, like, are you a person who has always been interested in deep philosophical questions of life?

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I think it really started when I was gifted, a graduation present. It was the complete works of Plato and all of his dialogs. And even to this day, I tell people when they ask me about my, religious affiliation, I say Neoplatonism, because that really open my eyes to really question things, dive deeper into things. And one of those things would be, of course, reality.

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For example, reading George Tai, the French philosopher, is eroticism. But, this kind of flirting with those ideas of taking sexuality to the limits, exploring taboos, and really just seeing what it reveals in human beings when they're at those limits.

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Okay, this is endlessly fascinating to me. So tell me if I get on a tangent that is not interesting to you, but I do not know very much in particular about it. Cut out briefly when you said George, who was last name.

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Which time? So is a French philosopher. I don't speak French, but that's pretty close, I think is. But I like battle. Yeah. I encourage everyone to check out his, continental philosophy and work, among many others, of course.

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Okay. And then Neoplatonism. That's new Plato. Like, what is that actually about? Like, what are the kind of the tenets of it or philosophies for those of us who are not familiar?

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Oh, so I don't know too much about it because I've read so much of my life and I think there's like, the heading house for getting 90% of it is all gone. But I always say that I wish to believe that the world is perfectly ordered around the emanation of some figurative Godhead. So everything is just concentric circles emanating outwards.

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We're the imperfect material beings, but there's some cosmic perfection out there that grounds our morality, ideas of law, etc. I don't I mean, I don't believe that, but I wish I would be a pagan, really, or even worship Zeus.

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Oh, I love wait, that's so interesting. So you don't believe it, but you have the desire. Can you say more about that?

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I think really just stems from social alienation throughout my life, and realizing that I have such flat emotional assets, I learned to mask a lot. And really, I know what it looks like to be excited, happy, concerned. So, you know, this really comes into play when I'm at funerals or at, corporate functions and gatherings. But I'm interested in wishing that I had more shame or more guilt or more emotions, or being able to feel more passionately about things.

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Whereas I think we don't. So I am not excited about things in general where people expect me to say, but I answer questions contrary to how I'm really feeling.

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Oh, this is so rich. Okay, I have observed that a lot of people are okay. This is a broad statement and not applicable.

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I love it.

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Okay, but we're going to dive into it. And I'm just curious about your experience because I am a person that throughout life, a lot of times people are like, oh, you're so excited. You know, like there's almost a judgment there. And I have had many instances where I'm like, how are you not excited by this? You know, I may just have an abundance of dopamine coursing through my system, like, because I'm highly motivated, highly curious, highly, just deeply interested in what other people's modes are like.

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Maybe similarly, coming from a place of my own experience with alienation, because throughout the years I've seen people perform excitement, but it doesn't seem to really match up with what I what I think I'm observing in their feelings. So do you ever wonder if, like, the social norms of masking might be just like running interference on your own signals of truth?

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That's a very deep question. I'm not sure if I could, adequately answer that, but yes, I would say tentatively. I just know that I had difficulty reading people my whole life. Wasn't it? So I reached my 30 year mark that I really started socially developing with the camera by getting myself into uncomfortable situations more and more and more, and really just learning to live out my life through various personae or just adopting different masks.

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So like when I'm a photographer, depending on what type of thing I'm photographing, I have a different personality because it's pretty fluid. I forget my, my pseudonym sometimes, or I just have moments of vulnerability, obviously, and I reveal things from my personal life.

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I really strongly relate to this, even though I'm coming from a different direction. And this is why I love these conversations, and I'm so grateful for your vulnerability here. So I love being a photographer because I think I excel when I have a clear job, like both as a photographer. I also do like creative consults or, you know, work with people one on one when it comes to their sex lives.

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Or, for example, in this interview, I know what my job is. I have primed you to have clear expectations. And so in that framework, we get to co creatively dance and then have the unknown exploration to see what happens. So I'm curious when you are a photographer how do you feel yourself differently as compared to the everyday version of you that's eating something boiled maybe versus the version of you that you are at, maybe your other other job, or when you're having a discussion with someone about classics like how do you conceive of your different selves?

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It depends if I'm doing it. So if I have a lot of, the underground subcultures of various, for example, the deejays that are indie, the racing I photographed the Las Vegas Puppy Coalition, among other things, a lot of supporters. So I typically have either a party personality or something more like a director, a personality that's modeled after my childhood heroes.

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Zach Miles. That's hardcore people like that. Although I know those individuals are not very problematic, but they still inspire me as a child to want to be either a cowboy or a, porno director, which I have not accomplished any of those yet.

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Yet?

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Yeah. Yeah, sure. But I just those are sort of my masculine role models, cowboys and directors.

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Okay.

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I remember what Zach Wilde was behind, but he had an amateur pornography website. This is prior OnlyFans, and he would just be releasing things on VHS. Same with Max hardcore. And they just were the individual fighters or the sort of the Cowboys upon a saw that there was a niche market that they wanted to see on video that was not even provided for, and they provided for that.

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Yeah. I was going to say to the kids, don't idolize Max hardcore. He did serve time in federal prison for, what was it? They caught one male front. He got a loophole some and put him away in nine bars.

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Dang. I don't know who those people are. How did you become exposed to them?

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Unfortunately, like a lot of people who were underage, I was exposed to pornography when I got the internet. And you. Just curiosity. That's what I typed in. And through pornography, I realized, wow, I'm actually attracted to a lot of unconventional things, and it started to desensitize me as well. It's not all positive and I realized, wow, I'm now watching.

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These are considered extremely disgusting or just violent. And I really scaled that back. So as of now, I have not consumed really watched pornography for a very long time. Okay. Also because of my photography, I think I'm producing it.

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So yes.

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That might be my replacement.

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Yes. And I for me, I know that it's so much more gratifying. I don't watch very much porn. I do have friends who work as performers in the adult industry. And my next step for this podcast is doing the version of this where I would be interviewing a potential partner about, like, how do you want to fuck? And then I would have the situation where we go do the fucking and then we debrief and then we take that like, and that fucking would come from like security cam style.

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Like I've been experimenting with my only fans masturbation of just like capturing footage from when I masturbate like from because I have a camera that goes over my bed for when I rent my space out on pure space. And so I have I'm like, I want to do the next level and then take the most emotionally or physically charged moments from our debrief, and then recreate that as porno so that people can see, like all of my goal is to create a erotic content, since so many people do learn from porn.

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But porn is not usually designed as a teaching tool. So I want that's like kind of my personal next level mission. I want to circle back to what you said when you mentioned that you wish you had more shame. And I'm very curious about what that statement means to you. And also, you mentioned the concept of taboo, which I have been trying to understand off and on, because I don't think I experience shame in the same places as a lot of people.

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So how do you experience or I mean, it sounds like there's a void of shame. Like, do you get shame anywhere?

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So it really depends on which persona that I'm currently channeling through. But where I lack anonymity, I do have a higher level of shame. For example, my outward facing is like, the Japanese salaryman 9 to 5 with a wife and kids, right? Or at least that's what I projected. People. That's a story I tell people. That's what I do have.

00:19:19:06 - 00:19:41:06

Shame, honestly, because I don't want that shame or the stigma to attach to that personal persona, because I do have to interface with people in the so-called real world, modern world, polite society. But when I do photography, I really have little shame. I'm willing to intervene when need be. I'm willing to tell the dominatrix, hey, this this is too light.

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You need to do this or that, right? Yeah. So, like, one time I was photographing a dominatrix who was relatively new in the field, and I had to, I didn't have to. I just did it. I showed her by kind of kicking the dildo into the sub's anus. Or spitting on the subs face when you had this kind of neoprene gimp mess.

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Yeah. So just situations like that.

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That's such an illustrative example. I love that. And, you know, and also as a photographer and as a someone who models and I do not always feel held by photographers because I'm such a detail oriented brain. And I'm like, just tell me what I would tell me. And I can't clone myself, you know? So I do a lot of self shooting to just because at least that's a random wheel of fortune.

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And if I'm going to do that, then that's more satisfying to me. But I think that you are giving those subjects a great gift by giving that level of clarity and direction, because I've noticed that when I'm working with someone, it almost doesn't matter what I tell them. But if I give them a direction to focus on it instead of like, oh, am I being awkward?

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Do I look awkward? Is this awkward? Then whatever they're focused on, they'll drop into their body. I mean, not, you know, 100% of the time, but they're much more likely to kind of like channel that energy. And and that really is a brilliant co-creation.

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I think we assuage their fears, play up their confidence and just let them know, hey, be sexy, be yourself. How would you like to be perceived? Think about that. Right?

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Yeah. And then channel it for them, you know, and I work with it. My background is in filmmaking and acting and mainstream entertainment. And so I learned as a director and actor to speak in character thoughts instead of line readings. So giving them the emotion. And so I will just like write stories for people in my head as I go.

00:21:20:08 - 00:21:50:21

Kind of like A11 woman improv. And that's that's just so fun. But I am really curious too, about how you understand taboo. Like, I am still trying to understand it because for me, what I understand is it's something that's naughty, that's not. I'm using air quotes socially normative, like it's like at the edges. But then when people tell me they like taboo, it's like, okay, but you like it, so then you accept the naughtiness.

00:21:50:21 - 00:22:05:06

So then what's wrong with it? You know, this is the part of me that as a kink star, I'm sort of like, oh, wait, am I kinky at all? And people are like, yeah, that's kinky. And I'm like, but I like, but like when you call me a, dumb little cum slut, like, that's a nice word because we have an agreement.

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So is it humiliating, you know. So. So how do you like, conceive of taboo?

00:22:13:02 - 00:22:34:06

I think it's very context oriented, like you said, where the word comes slide, bitch and or may be derogatory and, denigrated in one aspect, but when you're communicating with a partner that you trust and are intimate with, it can be something more solitary. And I think taboo for me is more of a social construct. I mean, you know, human beings are social animals.

00:22:34:06 - 00:23:04:22

We're linguistically mediated. So a lot of these things of taboo, I believe, has been secularized in the modern world, where in previous times taboo was more sacred, like you're violating a sacred taboo. Yeah. But it also comes down to and I know my mind is running a hundred miles per minute, but it comes out. So I think sexually izing or attaching a fetish to your guilt, kind of like you have, pathway guilt and then, you know, it's wrong because of that naughtiness.

00:23:04:22 - 00:23:25:15

And knowing you're breaching this limit or barrier, you find you sexualized, you find out, wow, this is hard. This is great. This is something I want to experiment more with. So it's kind of like, for people with very stable lives, they want to seek more chaos. Maybe for someone who's grown up homeless or with abusive parents or very chaotic lives, they want to seek more stability.

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So it's kind of like achieving that balance in life.

00:23:28:01 - 00:23:44:06

Yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting. So is there a part of you that wants more taboo in your life, or do you feel like you're getting that itch scratched, or that need fed by the erotic photography work that you do?

00:23:44:08 - 00:24:04:08

I definitely see that. Like my, pornography consumption as a child. Well, not child, I was a teenager, but, I mean, desensitized. So what was once taboo for me? I realized once I got to the edge of that taboo, it's like going to the end of a border and realizing there really is no border. There is nothing there.

00:24:04:10 - 00:24:23:02

It's almost Kafkaesque in a way. Right? You realize, wow, there was no guard. I could have just open this door. There was no lock and there's really nothing there. It's really just completely, like a floating castle made of words so linguistically and socially constructed, and it's being upheld by the community at large.

00:24:23:04 - 00:24:42:06

I think that is such an astute observation. And it really speaks to this theme that I have experienced throughout my life, where I've just been so wildly confused because I oftentimes am surrounded by people who are like, oh, if only I could blah blah blah. And I'm like, well, why don't you blah blah blah. And they're like, but I can't.

00:24:42:06 - 00:25:00:06

And I'm like, but you could, but you actually could like, you know, probably the most concrete example that I get most frequently is I have, you know, listeners write to me and they have a relationship question and I'm like, well, could you talk to your partner about it? That sounds like it is something that you need to talk to your partner about, because it has to do with your partner.

00:25:00:08 - 00:25:30:12

And they're like, oh, I couldn't possibly, you know, what I'm like, but you literally could. And also, you've bonded yourself to this person theoretically for your life. If if marriage vows matter to you, you know. And so I think that's where I become the most confused. And yet, because I too am still a human as much as I have little robot parts, whirring away up in my brain over and over again, I identify the places in which I am creating my own jail, if you will, my own barriers that are completely manufactured.

00:25:30:14 - 00:25:47:19

Are there any things like that in your life that you were like, I wish I could get rid of this right now, or any things that you're like. I noticed that I was creating my own barrier. My own fake locked door and walked through like, like, was photography part of that for you? Were there examples in your life that feel relevant to that theme?

00:25:47:21 - 00:26:14:12

Oh no. Photography is a huge part. Basically, photography was the key that a lot, a lot of doors for me. But at the same time I decided to, meet. Personally, I do want to have certain barriers or boundaries in place and for me to uphold certain, social mores just to maintain the stability in my life. So from that stability, I'm able to explore these taboos and kinks in my hidden life or, persona and, you.

00:26:14:12 - 00:26:29:19

Know, yeah, I love I love that. And then just to clarify, when did your interest in photography itself begin? And then when did portraits and or naughty portraits start to enter in for you?

00:26:29:21 - 00:26:51:02

So like I mentioned before, with the surveillance shot, I was just doing street photography because environmentally that was what was important to me on a more or less a daily basis. Like, I guess this is where my Marxism comes in. I believe in the material conditions, basically formatting our lives and guiding it. I don't believe in free will, but that's a topic for another day.

00:26:51:04 - 00:27:11:22

But, from that I became curious about, okay, what are other street photographers doing? So I became very involved with studying the history of photography, the techniques of lighting. Obviously without light, there's a photography and that comes from a Greek roots. Right? Writing with light. And from that point I realized, okay, what are the other people related photography that I could explore?

00:27:11:22 - 00:27:31:17

So that's where I got more into the erotic portraiture. I hesitate to call it boudoir, because a lot of times I shoot clients in there on our clients, but I would say music partners in their environment. So it's a mixture of erotica, environmental photography, and just kind of raw gonzo journalism like, Hunter Thompson.

00:27:31:19 - 00:27:50:19

Yeah, yeah. And can you give us a sense of where in your personal timeline that was happening? Like, it sounds like it was post teen, so like, maybe you had in the back of your head these, pornographic images, you know, swirling around and how old were you when you, like, started the street photography stuff?

00:27:50:21 - 00:28:15:21

So in my teens, my 20s. I'm just going to say this outright. Without a political affiliation, I'm kind of like an something where I was very, non-sexual, asexual, at least in my physical, intimate, body. Right. It was all through viewing differently. And I just thought, I wish to be in where they're filming these sort of acts and just experiencing it firsthand.

00:28:15:23 - 00:28:34:07

So that's where I said, okay, how do I do that? Well, I need to get a camera. I need to be somewhere. I could be the sound guy, light guy, or the cameraman. But eventually I got the phone. I got the camera after the street photography to sort of boring, not boring, but it wasn't amusing or really scratching the itch anymore.

00:28:34:09 - 00:28:46:20

That's when I went onto the double list Craigslist before they took the personals down. Yeah, and just using the internet or I suppose you can call it a digital ghetto to sort of recruit my, photography subjects.

00:28:46:22 - 00:29:02:11

Wow. Okay. Also, I think we're talking a fantasy. Just wandered into my brain. So I'm going to share it because here I am getting so excited and maybe some of it will rub off on you. I don't know, there's no pressure, but as I hear you talk about, like, how can I be in this space where that happens now?

00:29:02:11 - 00:29:23:14

I'm like, well, the next layer of my future idea is to create a viewing chamber. You know how for surgeons, they have, like, the old fashioned, like the people would view from up above, but in this one, it's, you know, where we're fucking down below and there's cameras from every angle. So it could be live streamed, but also there's literal viewing up top and maybe cameras are allowed.

00:29:23:14 - 00:29:55:02

Maybe not. Maybe depends on who's down below. And then I'm like, and are people allowed to touch themselves? Because one of the other big dreams that I have is, I mean, highest level, creating a full service, all inclusive creativity resort, you know, so it's meeting all the creative parts of ourselves, artistic and obviously sexual, where we can go and learn and and then the more medium one is like, I want to create a co-working space for sex workers, you know, with contracts built in, with safety, with equipment, with people to help kind of create all of that.

00:29:55:02 - 00:30:08:11

And then obviously it doubles as a place to have sex parties on the weekend, you know, and I know there are various versions of that, but it's different from what I've experienced so far in like Calming zones or this or that. Like I want it to be something that's more, truly more like a slutty we work, so it's.

00:30:08:11 - 00:30:29:05

Kind of like a sex freelancer. I think that's what the word is. Freelancer. Trying to think of the French philosopher. He was one of the proto or early, Marxist or feminists, but using about like a coexistence sort of space where people like, farmers Co-op. Yes. For socialists, but where everyone would have everything provided for in this one company.

00:30:29:07 - 00:30:31:00

Yes, yes, totally.

00:30:31:00 - 00:30:36:03

That's totally what? Yeah. And obviously it's, built to, like, withstand future apocalypses. Okay. Yeah.

00:30:36:03 - 00:30:49:18

So, I was thinking about the sex version of The Truman Show with, Jim Carrey. So I'm also a cinephile, by the way, I love movies. At one point, I was watching a movie at eight, but I had to get out of my schedule.

00:30:49:20 - 00:31:17:22

Man. Okay, I literally have been talking to friends lately about, like, how how can I watch more movies? Because I've been single ish. Like, I've had ongoing partnerships off and on. But for the last decade, I have been pretty single. Like like my I'm a solo poly person, and that means that I have not watched as much TV and movies as I used to like I really need a medium, you know someone, because when someone is like, watch this, then I will.

00:31:18:00 - 00:31:38:11

But it's also more fun for me with my type. I don't understand what's happening in movies half the time. Like looking back on my film school experience, I'm like lol. But I mean, some of that is avant garde and it's like you're not really supposed to understand or everyone has their own interpretations, but some of it is. No, I was really just missing the social signals and so it was boring to me.

00:31:38:13 - 00:32:06:07

And so I have another dream of finding cinephiles such as yourself who are deeply thoughtful and who think a lot about relationships, because half the time, then when I do watch a movie that has a romance line in it, or something kinky or something sexy, my head explodes because I'm like, no wonder people are treating each other so terribly out in the world because this is terrible, terrible example of relationships, you know, and I understand from all of my screenwriting classes and my friends who are screenwriters.

00:32:06:07 - 00:32:33:00

And I've thought with them about this because I'm like, no, if something is on screen, you are teaching people in a very powerful medium like storytelling for humans, for hundreds of thousands or whatever thousands of years has been the medium by which we learn and pass down our values. And it seems like onscreen, that's not always, conscious in the creators, because they're just looking for the highest drama to trigger our amygdala to keep us, you know, in it.

00:32:33:00 - 00:32:51:19

And then, like as post postmodernism happens and TikTok is here, it's like fast, fast, fast, fast, fast cuts so the brains don't even have time to process it. And so people just interpolate the, the like, romantic structure, which seems to be like, I couldn't possibly talk to you about it. Yes. We'll never talk. I couldn't possibly, you know.

00:32:51:19 - 00:33:12:23

And then there's a cutaway to fucking. And then people don't know how to fuck. So I'm really opposite because I'm like, let's talk about it a lot. And it's really a turn on. And so I dream of watching movies with someone like you, but pausing it to discuss relationships and recording that, part and putting and then rewriting the endings or like, you know, and again, I say this as a person who understands first hand how much work it is to make a movie.

00:33:12:23 - 00:33:22:14

It's hugely collaborative. It's hugely expensive. I understand there are all sorts of business constraints, but I'm like, I would love to rewrite the romantic and especially kinky storylines.

00:33:22:16 - 00:33:44:03

I suppose you can take, a page out of more old for independent filmmakers like Greg Araki and, John Waters, of course. So those are two of my favorite directors in the queer space. So they shot on very low budget, and they shot mainly, primarily with the friends and on location, for example, John Waters, a lot of his movies are shot in Baltimore, and I'm also glad you use that word interpolate.

00:33:44:03 - 00:33:52:19

I love that words from Louis out to Sarah's. Book on Marxism. And we all know what the subject is, people weighted by the culture that surrounds him.

00:33:52:21 - 00:34:04:13

I did not know that. Wow, you are so learned. I fucking love this. Okay, would you say that learning is a way that you show yourself self-love? Like, is that part of your organization at all?

00:34:04:15 - 00:34:34:00

I think so, I spent my the entirety of my 20s really just, reading, learning and writing. So I almost felt like I was part of the clergy. So it's going back to the whole incel thing. I would say I'm a cell. I'm part of that priesthood of classics, scholar, or scholasticism or not. But I also remember one thing that really influenced me becoming a photographer and really cultivated the Boyer persona was David Lynch's Blue Velvet.

00:34:34:01 - 00:34:49:14

I always tell people, I want to be Jeffrey Beaumont. I'm in this closet space. I'm watching, daddy, mommy. I forget the actress's name, Isabella Rossellini, who also has a new short film series on, sex and the Animal Kingdom.

00:34:49:16 - 00:34:56:03

Oh, that is very okay. I feel like I would love for you to make a list of things for me to watch.

00:34:56:05 - 00:35:14:20

Maybe I have better advice, actually, for you and the viewers. The reason I'm able to watch a movie a day and only the good stuff curated, films is just to subscribe to criterion. Criterion in case of it. Yeah, it's a shooting. Netflix. And, you can spend your whole life watching and they have more and more content every month.

00:35:15:01 - 00:35:31:11

I love that, okay, okay. It might be time for me to go back that direction because I really am missing the filmmaker parts of me. Okay, okay. To stay focused. Kind of. I would love to hear when you feel the most connected to other humans.

00:35:31:13 - 00:35:53:03

So don't hesitate a little earlier. I don't really feel connected to other humans. I'm pretty socially related. Most of the time, and so almost everyone, especially when I have my, some work facing persona of the salary man. So I typically just engage in small talk. I even brush up on things like sports just so I have something on top of the majority of males worldwide.

00:35:53:05 - 00:36:18:02

It's, American males, Chinese males. They love soccer, football, etc.. Right? So genuine connections are pretty difficult. I'm not even sure what the word connections refers to realistically. Yeah. It just like parity and distinctions for me, right. As far as, like, what are these material conditions of connection? And I know what people were referring to in general, when they use words like love and connections.

00:36:18:02 - 00:36:22:12

Right. To answer the question, I'm not sure that's my answer. I'm not sure I.

00:36:22:12 - 00:36:38:22

Love that, and I, I always love to talk on here about noodling. Like we're just brainstorming aloud and kind of wondering together. And I have a big deep noodle metaphor, in part because it's silly and it helps people feel like their answer is allowed to change and shift and grow and get wiggly. You know, sometimes I say, oh, it's very fresh noodle dough.

00:36:39:03 - 00:37:04:19

If the pokey noodle hasn't been boiled yet. So I'm. Yeah. So I'm just noodling on all of this and I can't help but be curious hearing that answer, it sounds like there still are pieces of you that feel, compelled or maybe not compelled satisfaction, or at least curiosity in exchanges of information like you talked about liking to discuss ideas or classics or whatever you're reading.

00:37:04:19 - 00:37:22:16

And I think I am identifying in myself over the past few months that informational exchange is probably my primary mode of connection. And so now that I've been able to articulate that with people, I'm like, you know, and I can see when I overload some people sometimes and with my parents, I'll be like, mom, dad, guess what I learned on the Huberman lab?

00:37:22:16 - 00:37:33:06

And I'll just like, tell them the science facts that are related to like, human functioning. But do you think you experience any version of that, or how do you kind of like, understand that in yourself?

00:37:33:07 - 00:38:03:01

Okay, so we may be pretty similar in that regard. I experience the connections or I suppose you can call it platonic or social intimacy through exchanging information. It's kind of like how when people hug and kiss, they have these, oxytocin triggering moments and that creates what they feel is love or physical intimacy. For me, it's it's solidifying connections through, information exchange, kind of like in this in the feudal era where, lords would see their underlings, that's how they solidify their connections.

00:38:03:03 - 00:38:24:11

So for me, it's really just sharing interesting information, like if I find another set of file or maybe a future Senate file to be, I would convert someone by saying, hey, watch Greg Araki's, what is the Teenage Sexual Apocalypse trilogy, right? And then if they watch it and they really vibe with that, connect with that, I would hope that they would come with me, come to me with their interpretations.

00:38:24:12 - 00:38:28:23

So they're sort of forging more information for me and vice versa.

00:38:29:00 - 00:38:57:18

Yeah, yeah, I totally love that. I think it was only in the last year or maybe two that I realized that. Going back to what you said about small talk earlier, there are many people who simply feel, oh, vibes and they get goodness out of out of just being like, hey, what's up? How's it, how's it going? You know, or that text message that sometimes, I'll just text me or message me, especially if it's a complete stranger and it just says, hey, I'm like, what am I supposed to do with that?

00:38:57:20 - 00:39:32:22

You know? And similarly, I know that I've learned that I am just opposite of a lot of people, because when I text someone like introduction paragraph with like, niceties. And then the real reason about why I'm really writing and what I've been noodling on and thinking and then like we ask for their opinion or their action item and then like, well wishes at the at, you know, I'm, I think in paragraphs is kind of what I've started to tease myself with, but just realizing that some people experience vibes and not enough for them, it doesn't stop me from feeling alienated, but it at least helps me appreciate that there are other experiences out

00:39:32:22 - 00:39:44:01

there. I almost think of it as like wavelengths that I can't see, you know, like the UV light or whatever. So that's something that I sometimes take comfort in when I'm feeling all disconnected.

00:39:44:03 - 00:40:11:12

Oh no, I was going to say I'm a total elitist and snob. I will admit to that. I, I know that there are a lot of people who get that experience and love the vibes only, but I find that very surface level, and it almost makes me feel solipsist like I'm the only ego out here and everybody is like, preprogramed NPC or, philosophical zombie, where they have all the trappings or visual appearance, ostensibly of a human being, but there's nothing inside.

00:40:11:13 - 00:40:16:19

Yeah, there's kind of like a sci fi horror that I'm living through isn't bodily sociable.

00:40:16:19 - 00:40:41:06

This is so funny because sci fi is my favorite genre. I have a bunch of circles and moons behind me that are, in my opinion, like six planets, like in my mind. But but I live in action, adventure and fantasy, so for me, the genre is just like flipped a little bit. And I'm like, I agree, a lot of people walk around like NPCs, but it's just because they haven't been activated.

00:40:41:10 - 00:40:58:08

And if only I could boop their buttons in the right way, maybe have sex with them, then they would be lit up. And because I do have this kind of like eternal optimism that is, it's often reflected to me that it's like too much or that I am too hopeful or I give people too much credit. But I'm like, you know what?

00:40:58:08 - 00:41:19:09

I'm not saying everyone will change to be how I want them to be. That is certainly not what I think the answer to the world is. Although I'm like, I don't know, I'm living a pretty good life and like, people seem pretty happy when they're around me. But I guess I do have this belief that, like, if only I could ask them the right amount of questions and love them enough, then they would feel safe enough to noodle with me, you know?

00:41:19:12 - 00:41:21:21

And so I think it's like a.

00:41:21:23 - 00:41:31:22

Scientific, absolutely right. If you ask the right question and trigger the correct material condition, they'll become this, perfect human or revolutionary, right?

00:41:32:00 - 00:41:52:00

Yeah. And I also do think I have a bunch of antique data in my own personal experience to back that up. Like, I have a lot of people who own it. Could be strangers at the airport, or it could be someone who's in my bed or some anything in between, you know? And I know that, like creating a safe space of love where I don't really need them to be anything but themselves, that allows me to like, you know, discover cool stuff.

00:41:52:03 - 00:42:07:09

That said, I have my own, like, distancing mechanisms. So it's like, it's totally different if someone is in my closest personal sphere, then I am a little more attached to outcomes and personalities. And that's I totally get that. That's part of the human experience. So I'm not a total robot. I just think in frameworks.

00:42:07:11 - 00:42:13:06

I'm interacting with you. You're not a robot. You there's a there's an ego there. There's a subject. And that.

00:42:13:08 - 00:42:16:00

Well, I wonder sometimes if I'm a sex robot.

00:42:16:01 - 00:42:23:06

Well, I that could be a persona. You was right. Maybe you were only the actual, more challenging part of your subjectivity through that persona.

00:42:23:07 - 00:42:50:18

That's true. Oh, my God, I feel like you and I could talk about persona for so long because I have 26 or 7 or 30, like different, they're all part of like a larger story, but I wear like 4 to 5 people out in the world on the regular. You know, it just depends on like and complete with different names, different people, like, they all I mean, people know a lot of my different names, but like, I it's only recently that I've been like, oh, yes, I guess I do.

00:42:51:00 - 00:42:57:14

I'm not very good at code switching, but I realize that I have been like trying to hide parts of me that are too sexy and it doesn't really work.

00:42:57:14 - 00:43:23:09

So previously when my webcam was flipped around, it was a cutout of, Fernando Pessoa. And he's a Portuguese author who has like, hundreds of different, he calls them heteronyms, essentially personae. And in his writings he write as different people with completely different, dialects, manners of speaking, life histories. And I think they just discovered his work in a chest that he left in when he died.

00:43:23:15 - 00:43:35:07

And I sold The Book of Disquiet. And I highly recommend anybody who is into this subject a persona for some night to read it and watch Ingmar Bergman movie of the title.

00:43:35:08 - 00:43:52:15

Yeah, it's so funny thinking back to film school, watching that, I remember being like, okay, okay, you know, I had to watch it several times and write papers on it. And, now that I'm thinking about it's due for a rewatch, but it's so funny because it's like, well, first of all, you taught me another new word heteronyms saguaros.

00:43:52:17 - 00:44:03:14

Yeah. So Ferdinand Pessoa, people actually use his persona as heteronyms. So hetero different name name, so just different names. I guess that's the more useful. Sort of.

00:44:03:16 - 00:44:18:05

Yeah, yeah. Well, it's funny because one of the long term narrative projects that I'm writing is a group of clone sisters who are here to make the world a sexier, more loving place. And so they each have their own like, sex, work affiliation. And initially I was like, it's all going to be fiction, and I'll just interview people.

00:44:18:05 - 00:44:35:09

And then that's how I'll inform the characters. But then I got hyper curious and started doing as many as possible. All that is to say, I love that, I love. Do you really not feel excited when you're learning? Because I feel so excited learning from you.

00:44:35:11 - 00:44:51:19

I guess it's I mean, it's something I find difficult to really pin down or feel. I'm curious. I even hesitate to use the word motivated to learn other anybody knows me probably thinks I'm very motivated to learn because of how much time in my life I devote to it.

00:44:51:21 - 00:44:53:08

Yeah, yeah.

00:44:53:10 - 00:45:16:18

But I'm really just using that as sort of, a springboard or launching pad for my actions. So one way I learn to be more human, I suppose, is to just imitate the actions of people on film. So Jean-Luc Godard, man of outsiders, that's what really sent me off into this personal journey of mine to meet different people and kind of go off the beaten path.

00:45:16:19 - 00:45:30:08

Although I'm not going to rob anyone and end up it's a Bonnie and Clyde shootout, right? But I will just adapt the sort of film personnel. I say, all right, I'm gonna try to be this person in any way possible this month, and I'm going to go and find adventures like that.

00:45:30:13 - 00:45:48:15

That actually seems like a really cool way to explore the world, which, like I did exercises like that in acting classes. Or there's, you know, when you pick a character to work on sometimes, especially in the longer scenes study classes, you do animal work, so you inform the movement of that character by studying animals like the actual animal kingdom.

00:45:48:17 - 00:46:13:18

So that's kind of my touchstone for that. But I've never actually consciously put on a persona in my everyday life. You're giving me so much to think about. What about like the word enlivened or like. Like there. Like what? How do you actually make decisions about where to put your time and energy? Is it from those driving personas or like, how do you decide what to read next, what to learn next?

00:46:13:20 - 00:46:39:14

I don't really believe that we have free will. So what really drives my decision making? I may think that I'm choosing to do X, Y, or Z that's really just from all the the previous interactions or events that culminated in that one moment where a decision could be sort of rationalized or cognize. So a lot of what I do, I think is just purely reactive and it's just, a result of my life history.

00:46:39:16 - 00:46:40:09

Oh, it's.

00:46:40:11 - 00:47:02:08

Not that I take responsibility for my actions. I consciously do and I do still believe, you know, why people have a penal code or a criminal justice system, right? It's to enforce societal norms and values. I don't agree with it necessarily, but I know why it's there. Right? In spite of my not believing in pretty well.

00:47:02:10 - 00:47:22:21

Yeah, yeah. Oh, I love it. I love the discussion. Okay. Circling back to the idea of connection or lack of connection when it comes to getting physically intimate with another person, what does it take for you to want to become physically intimate with another human being?

00:47:22:23 - 00:47:46:07

I think I have a pretty vanilla answer to this. It's just, physical attraction. So I'm attracted to the individual physically. That would lead me to want to be physically intimate with them. Jokingly, I could say, well, drugs help, because now we are. We know what, bluechew or Viagra is. It's been normalized, like you said earlier by film, Saul Goodman uses those when he was a little older.

00:47:46:07 - 00:48:00:02

So for me, yeah, it's just pretty vanilla. I'm not sure if I can give anything mystical about physical intimacy, but, the the visuals do attract that. We are a visual animal, among other things.

00:48:00:04 - 00:48:12:02

Okay, here's a question, though. If someone is visually very attractive, but is one of those like non-player characters that you were referencing, would you have sexual attraction there?

00:48:12:04 - 00:48:40:18

At least there would still be sexual attraction. I mean, it's it's very reactionary. It's almost just physiological, right? You can't help it's sort of like there was a study where they had men that were randomly picked from a college campus, most of them being heterosexual. Of course, that's just the norm of the distribution. They couldn't help getting erections when shown, gay pornography, just seeing sexual acts on so I guess aroused them.

00:48:40:20 - 00:48:49:17

Arousal video. It motivated them sexually, even though they physically are not attracted to other men. Yeah. So should I really confuse the hell out of those, those young men?

00:48:49:22 - 00:49:14:16

Totally. I mean, I am a highly aroused person like I. It took me a while to realize that most people don't experience the level of, like, sexual desire, arousal and turn on, you know, in all of the books that are like, many women have responsive desire and you can't expect spontaneous desire to be everywhere. I finally have realized that I am one of the horniest people I've ever encountered.

00:49:14:18 - 00:49:33:15

So for me, it's been, you know, a life of figuring out what are my criteria. Like how do I make sure that this interaction is is quote unquote worth it for me? How do I make sure that I'm feeling valued? How do I make sure I'm not just giving away all of my time to fucking and then getting discarded?

00:49:33:15 - 00:49:49:09

Because there are also some tricky narratives in this world about, like, if a woman gives it up right away, you know, of course it depends on are you in a kink friendly circle or a sex positive circle, or a circle of a sex nerd or someone who's just, you know, has more caveman like beliefs or, socialization?

00:49:49:09 - 00:49:50:17

And so.

00:49:50:19 - 00:50:01:01

Club. Right. Yeah. And it's an art form. You find people who are kink in like minded. You need the right amount. You need the right shibboleth. Like a password to let you in.

00:50:01:05 - 00:50:20:08

Absolutely. Well, and now that I find myself in the position of being a teacher to most people accidentally, you know, and that's and I my natural proclivity is not to be in charge. I just tend to be in charge most of the time. And again, when I'm actually on set as a director or a photographer or I'm producing something fine, that's great.

00:50:20:08 - 00:50:39:18

That's the job. But like when I'm in my own personal life, I finally realize. But like, I have been trying to follow other people, which doesn't work when they perceive me as a leader. And what I'm really after is active co-creation. You know, I want I want that give and take. I want that back and forth. That's what a good power exchange is anyway, regardless of which side of the slash we are on.

00:50:39:20 - 00:50:51:06

But I imagine that there's a certain like delight or freedom when all you really have to consider is physical attraction. Does it feel that way or what does it like for you?

00:50:51:07 - 00:51:20:09

So I'm probably on the opposite end of that spectrum. Like yin and yang, I'm pretty difficult around. I'm very cold and calloused emotionally, so. Right. It just takes a lot to get me there, which is perfect for my voyeuristic tendencies. Right? I'm just typically there to watch the document and occasionally make some comments. The sort of oiled machinery might lubricate the machinery or intervene when it be cool.

00:51:20:11 - 00:51:27:15

Okay, when it comes to sex, what are your health and safety practices and conversations like?

00:51:27:17 - 00:51:58:06

So I would say hypocritical, I yeah, so I do teach or co-teach this sort of human development. As with a previous guest of yours, but I know really nothing about other than yes, you should be safe. So obviously what I tell people is one thing, but when you're in the moment and sometimes you are irresponsible, just casual about it because passion sweeps you up and whatnot, or you're just lazy, you just decide, oh, I'm not going to pull out the door, the safety devices or the contraception or whatnot.

00:51:58:06 - 00:52:09:16

Right? So hypocritical. That's the the one word answer I'll give you. I don't mind being called, hypocrite, a narcissist sometimes, right. I'll just call.

00:52:09:18 - 00:52:27:13

Well, it's interesting because those are such loaded words in society. And oftentimes people launch them at each other's insults when honestly, there can be healthy narcissism. You know, it's healthy for me to be like, I have these parts of myself that I'm really proud of, and I would like to share them with you. And could you please admire these parts that I care about?

00:52:27:13 - 00:52:48:06

You know, because I think one of the mismatches in my life, too, is like people are admiring parts of me that I'm like, but that part doesn't matter to me. So I don't feel seen now, you know? And hypocrisy, I mean, gosh, we're all human. And I if there's anyone out there who has never had a contradiction in their life, then perhaps they were a baby that died very young.

00:52:48:06 - 00:53:02:00

Do you know what I mean? Like like I think as soon as we are developed as a human being, like, the nature of having thoughts, feelings and emotions is some amount of contradiction, right. And so, I love I love the honesty.

00:53:02:02 - 00:53:22:05

Yeah. I think the stoic philosopher Amazonians ruthless said it best. We shouldn't be so hard on the elites and the rulers, because put in the same place with the same conditions, we would be the same tyrant. I would take advantage of the exploitative and it's part of our nature, right? It's part of just being in those positions. There's a lot of temptations, right?

00:53:22:07 - 00:53:47:20

Yeah, yeah, of course not to excuse it. However, I find that oftentimes the narratives and or discussions that we have around people in power, people in the eye of the media, to me, they tend to lack compassion. You know, they're centered around shame and blame and judgment, which I, I have a hard time understanding rather than like, hey, collectively, would we like to write a new script that might work better for all of us?

00:53:47:20 - 00:53:53:14

No, no, we still want to judge each other but lie to each other. Okay. Interesting choices. Humans are kinky.

00:53:53:16 - 00:54:05:13

Yeah, I was going to say too, with so much of the political circus, it's always focused on the players. The people? Yes, or the mass. Not so much on the systems in place. I create conditions where people become tyrannical or exploitative.

00:54:05:18 - 00:54:06:07

00:54:06:09 - 00:54:17:00

Yeah, because I know if I had a cloak of invisibility, I would probably still very much right. I would do things are immoral or anti-social.

00:54:17:02 - 00:54:22:23

I would go look at people. I would sneak into bedrooms and just quietly watch.

00:54:23:00 - 00:54:34:06

Oh, that's a recurring dream of mine. Even as a child, just becoming a floating spirit, like a ghost of Christmas past and coming into people's homes and just going through the things and just being very invasive.

00:54:34:12 - 00:54:50:17

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Do you have any other thoughts in general on like love or reflections on relationship, particularly since you have this perspective of like, I hear it, I don't necessarily feel it. Like what other wisdom or just insights do you have on this topic before we move on to the sexy.

00:54:50:17 - 00:55:09:14

Things, I don't have very much wisdom on a topic. I'm actually a I don't believe in these psychological terms. So I mean, for me, I always tell people I have cognitive love. I know what it means to be a loving, caring person or being in love with somebody. And I would just act according to these, kind of inherited scripts.

00:55:09:16 - 00:55:10:13

00:55:10:15 - 00:55:13:09

Just to produce the desired outcomes in both ways.

00:55:13:09 - 00:55:26:04

I see can you put words to those scripts like loving is I make them dinner or like do you have like a, like an unconscious set of scripts in your head for, for what that cognitive love looks like.

00:55:26:06 - 00:55:52:12

Sure. I think for me, this is me personally writing. A lot of people love, or joy here in Terms of Endearment, people like to be, and, cared for, right? People love to feel safe and secure with their partner, intimate partner or life partner or I assume these things. It's a generalization, right? I assume you think of other people and I act accordingly in accordance to that assumption.

00:55:52:18 - 00:56:15:11

Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think a lot of us are acting in accordance with assumptions and sometimes they gel and sometimes they clash. And I think, you know, that's where maybe consciousness and unconsciousness can come into play. And in the discussion here, what about the part of you that likes to receive attention that you call the narcissist earlier?

00:56:15:13 - 00:56:32:16

What's the most gratifying piece there to receive for you? I know we talked about it a little bit, but just after all the discussion we've had since like what scripts there make that the most, juicy or satisfying and juicy?

00:56:32:16 - 00:56:56:23

Satisfying? Okay, those are great words, but, I guess for me, just, the stereotypical artist, right? I want to have my works praise and even if not praise, I want people to react to them. And typically they do. I sometimes spring upon strangers or loose acquaintances, my erotic photography, and they it's often met with shock hoards and a lot of ghosting.

00:56:57:00 - 00:57:22:07

Right? People just no one had anything to do with me anymore. They completely stigmatize me. I'm now like dirt. So it's like I expose them to this abject side of reality or society and they think, wow, I've been called insane the few times, actually, people think I'm clinically insane, maybe. Or madman because I want to document, new bodies and sexual acts with people who are not conventionally seen as beautiful.

00:57:22:09 - 00:57:29:13

Even though I, of course, love to look at the magazine Vogue and see those bodies through all of it. One of my favorite magazines. Oh.

00:57:29:15 - 00:57:50:06

Yeah, that's so cool. And also, I think people who don't want to see those things are incomprehensible to me. I'm like, you really don't want to look? And I'm like, do you really not want to look? Or you just don't want me to know that you are looking? I don't know.

00:57:50:08 - 00:58:13:21

I think we're a lot of them. They just don't like being exposed to this so-called uglier side or darker underbelly of the world. They want to kind of maintain that, or Disneyland fantasy of life or life as being more fair. They want to believe in, say, the myth of meritocracy, right? Yeah. Maybe someone antisocial. I'm going to show it to them anyways.

00:58:13:21 - 00:58:37:12

Yeah, yeah, I think for me too, just as a creator, I'm like, I am all for optimism and idealism and working toward, you know, creating something that benefits all people. However, in the meantime, to not be real about what I actually see in the world makes no sense. You know? And I get it, it's tricky. And I and again, I'm a person that loves Disney ification.

00:58:37:12 - 00:58:53:06

Like all of the spaces that I want to create are I, I actually think of it as sexy grown up Disneyland, you know, maybe not with literal rollercoasters off of them. Now I'm thinking about a slow moving roller coaster. Or like, have you been to Disneyland? Like, or, you know, the.

00:58:53:06 - 00:59:07:03

I think the last time I went was when my father took me there as a child, but since then, I really had no desire interest towards it. Sure, sure. I'm kind of I'm pretty critical of, pop culture, especially Western pop culture.

00:59:07:05 - 00:59:21:16

That's totally fair. I just am imagining, like, a Peter Pan ride or any of the, like, slow moving rides. But instead of going through these fantastic scenes, maybe they're live scenes of, people getting it on. I don't know, I don't know, you know, these are this is where my erotic fantasies lead.

00:59:21:18 - 00:59:23:07

So in a sexual world.

00:59:23:10 - 00:59:45:17

Yeah, yeah. Okay, moving on to the part where we actually get to talk about all the sexy things, which we've already kind of been previewing. If you had to rate yourself on a sexual shame meter with ten being full of shame and zero being like, I don't have any, it sounds like based on what we've talked about, it depends on which persona, which self you're coming forward with, in which context.

00:59:45:19 - 00:59:52:01

But as you conceive of yourself specifically around sexual shame, what have you noticed or learned about you?

00:00:27:07 - 00:00:49:18

Welcome. Yay! Okay. If you had to rate yourself on a sexual shame, a meter with ten being full of shame and zero being like, I don't have any. It sounds like based on what we've talked about, it depends on which persona, which self you're coming forward with, in which context. But as you conceive of yourself specifically around sexual shame, what have you noticed or learned about you?

00:00:49:19 - 00:01:12:21

So just to kind of recap, when I said it's based a lot on just knowledge, of course, certifications, social mores and how to respond to them. For my day to day forward facing, identity, somewhat shameful, I suppose. I know when to be ashamed or feel guilt or express a feeling of guilt. Right? To navigate my way out of situations.

00:01:12:23 - 00:01:29:16

But no. If I'm the Jeffrey Beaumont voyeuristic photographer, I have very little shame. And I encourage other people, especially my subjects, to not feel that shame and to be very expressive and just to bear their all holes and their entire subjective ego in front of me.

00:01:29:18 - 00:01:51:15

I love that follow up question because I, over and over again, try so hard to tell where people's shame lines are because I never go around in the world of being like, I'm going to try to make you uncomfortable, you know? And then sometimes you do you I so I don't but I it's also because I'm like, oh I don't want to make them uncomfortable, you know.

00:01:51:15 - 00:02:17:14

And so then I accidentally do it anyway rather than like owning. Oh I might make you uncomfortable because I'm comfortable and all these ways that other people aren't. Do you feel like you can see people's like, shame lines because everyone has their line in a kind of different place? Or is it sort of like contextual norms, like, how do you, when you're not in a explicitly sexy place, like when I'm in an explicitly sexy place, I know how to behave everywhere else.

00:02:17:14 - 00:02:31:14

I'm sort of like, you know, and and so then I on the side of, like, keeping myself inside. And then sometimes I accidentally let myself out and it explodes. Like, how do you kind of navigate those shame lines?

00:02:31:16 - 00:02:49:08

How do you kind of see it as, statistical game in a way? For example, when people look at me and try to guess my identity, if I were just trying to guess somebody's ethnicity that look like me, I would of course, always default to Chinese just based on how many Chinese people are in this world compared to Korean Japanese.

00:02:49:10 - 00:03:12:10

So, for example, when we're I'm in a nonsexual situation, just having a brief conversation if they're into, you know, Monday Night Football, if they're into going to church, especially if they're Mormon, I would say that you probably have a average to above average shame level. And if I'm wrong, so I'll correct my, sort of guidelines there and just work from that.

00:03:12:10 - 00:03:20:12

So it's really just playing a gambling game. It's like risk management almost. You just weigh the pros, the cons, the left and right.

00:03:20:13 - 00:03:31:14

Okay. So what does it take? Like what signal, what it require from, say, someone who maybe is Mormon and likes to watch football? Just just as an arbitrary example, it could be any any anything here.

00:03:31:20 - 00:03:32:19

That's what I work with.

00:03:32:21 - 00:03:50:03

Okay okay cool. So but then in some cases we do discover that someone is more open. Like what would it take for you to share someone in kind of, say, the regular vanilla world, to share with them about your photography, to tell them even just what you do?

00:03:50:05 - 00:04:11:08

So something that I just open up and I'm pretty vulnerable about it. It's a huge gamble and that's how I end up alienating, a lot of people. And I'm ghosted. But if, say, they expressed an interest in photography, I say, well, do you like black and white photography? And then I just show them a black or white of an erotic shot that I've done, and we'll go from there.

00:04:11:08 - 00:04:31:16

And sometimes just because I'm sort of a provocateur, or maybe an asteroid or asshole, I would just show people I know who to send. The pictures, the shoot, just to get a reaction out of them. Because I'm feeling bored, and I know it's bad. That's that's something society would should look down on, against me as opposed.

00:04:31:18 - 00:04:33:07

I do it anyways.

00:04:33:09 - 00:04:52:12

I mean, I guess, I guess it's bad by some people's perceptions, but also when I hear it through the frame of what I know from you so far is this person is curious about feelings and maybe doesn't experience them very strongly. It would make total sense to me that you want to kind of see where the lines are, and see what you know.

00:04:52:12 - 00:05:05:21

I mean, in some ways it's just data gathering, and I imagine that you are doing that in instances where it's like a relatively low stakes relationship, or maybe it is even long term beneficial to that person out of your life, I don't know.

00:05:06:00 - 00:05:33:08

Oh yeah, I'll say I've done it in higher stakes situations. For example, I'm part of this, local clown group and I assume clowns are very, liberal, typically accepting of others open to new experiences. But I think I was, informally sort of ostracized because I showed images of anuses or images of the aftermath of an anal sex scene that I photographed.

00:05:33:10 - 00:06:05:12

And they were for the they said, this is disgusting. I don't ever consent to use any of this stuff anymore. And even in sexual subcultures, I've been told that I shared things. I'm too graphic, things that they interpret to make light of serious sexual matters. So I'm not really. Like I said before, I'm pretty bad at meeting people, and I've only socially blossomed in my 30s, and I'm still learning a lot.

00:06:05:14 - 00:06:13:03

In fact, I probably should be at a clinic where they teach people how to socialize or be more societally acceptable.

00:06:13:05 - 00:06:29:04

I mean, if you discover one of those suddenly and feel my way because I've been looking like I've been, you know, I see that there is social support for people who severely, severely struggle. And I have not found anyone for those of us who are like, maybe in between. So that's that is actually part of my like a long term vision too.

00:06:29:04 - 00:06:52:07

And I think having these conversations is, is part of it because that calibration I mean damn you sound would you identify as resilient because I know that I have really been working in therapy on my own little lowercase t trauma from every time I accidentally explode someone, you know, and I take it way personally, I'm learning that this is not helpful and that I can let go of it and just be like, oh, this is me.

00:06:52:07 - 00:07:05:23

I know that I have a good heart here, but like. Or do you think that you just don't have feelings and so you're allowing yourself to continue onward? Or does it have to do with free will. Like how do you kind of like move forward after all these explosions?

00:07:06:01 - 00:07:29:11

I think this, body and brain that I've been so-called gifted is resilient in the fact that I take everything with a slight sense of humor, a little bit ironically, and just sort of treat the world like theater and game. Right? It's primarily for amusement. I don't believe in an afterlife, so I better do everything I want to do right now, right here.

00:07:29:13 - 00:07:47:02

And if that means pushing some buttons, alienating some other people, so be it, right? Yeah, I'm a rather selfish person in that regard, which is why I should be the narcissism to myself. And, one time a fellow coworker said, I may be a nice sociopath. I really like that designation. So I just started running with it.

00:07:47:07 - 00:08:10:02

That's that's a real thing. I mean, there can be ethical sociopathy, like we're all wired differently. It's about how we use our gifts. Have you read Finite and Infinite Games? I feel like you have. It's short, it's dense, but it's, something that I think about a lot because it's basically like, are we going to be interacting? And then somebody wins.

00:08:10:02 - 00:08:26:14

Like, is it like, is is the point to win and close our relationship, or do we want to engage each other throughout this lifetime? By making I mean, I'm summarizing. It's been years since I've read it, but like, I've been thinking a lot about it in terms of sex because I like I'm like, I want to write the sexy version of this book.

00:08:26:16 - 00:08:46:12

But it's philosophy heavy because it's basically like, do we want to simply have a relationship of back and forth that basically helps us grow where we will? There will never be a winner. It's about playing the game. And so just hearing you say that, you think of life as a game caused me to think of that, and I feel I would be curious to hear your thoughts if you end up checking it out.

00:08:46:14 - 00:09:00:09

Oh, well, that's very, Socratic actually. Right. The idea of having a pupil mentor where they dialectically, reveal knowledge about each other, of each other, to each other, and this kind of scale up this ladder of, intellect. Right?

00:09:00:09 - 00:09:21:10

Yeah, yeah. And it's ongoing co-creation of, like, rules, agreements, etc., you know, it's and it's mostly, I think, implicit. I don't know, I'm due for a reread. It's dense, but it's great. Short, dense, interesting. Continuing on, if you had to articulate it, what is sexy to you?

00:09:21:12 - 00:09:48:05

So for me, what's sexy here activates, feelings of sexual arousal, which is easier to learn and worship and vice versa. I would like to adore and worship amused. So I'm very much informed by what I've read in the classics realm. But The Feminine Mystique is primarily what I universally say is sexy to me, and that includes the smooth skin, the blonds, both Aphrodite and Eros.

00:09:48:05 - 00:10:15:12

So anything that is feminine. So regardless of being assigned male or female, androgyny, I find to be very sexy if it leans towards, anonymity. So I always have sort of my sexual idols as a Latina and Artemis or even Venus, right? Yeah. So I inform a lot by paintings, classical scholarship. Pindar. Poets from the lyrical Greek era.

00:10:15:14 - 00:10:29:08

Cool. Can you tell us a little bit about how you remember learning about love sex, connection and pleasure growing up? What has informed your shaping? Maybe starting with early memories, but take us wherever you want to go.

00:10:29:10 - 00:10:56:00

So I would say not at all. I grew up in a family that never talked about sex. Okay. I was pretty isolated and kind of socially awkward when I was young, so I didn't have a lot of people to talk to, to be friends with, to really share these things. So it really just it took a lot of trial and error and just, staking, staking my own self at risk in my 30s to experiment and experience all these things.

00:10:56:02 - 00:11:06:23

So it's largely been lost in this realm of mental fantasy for the longest time. And now I'm really trying to act on it through the documentation process and just putting myself into uncomfortable situations.

00:11:07:01 - 00:11:21:21

Okay. Wow. Was discovering porn in your teens your first kind of like, exposure, or had you, like, heard about sex before then or learned about it in school? Ever? Like, did you have any explicit sex ed moments prior to porn?

00:11:21:23 - 00:11:45:14

I know I had sex ed in school, but I don't remember a single thing from it. If I barely remember any teachers I've had or any explicit lessons. I think my memory is pretty bad long term when it comes to things like what happened to me, relationships. I have a better memory of theoretical concepts, or the things that I read and really think about, or technical details.

00:11:45:16 - 00:12:04:22

So maybe in a similar fashion when you watch them, you said you missed a lot of social cues. When I watch them, when I'm really focused on it, it's like the techniques of lighting. Yeah. The, the panning of the camera and just all the sort of technical side that's creating this visual in front of us.

00:12:05:00 - 00:12:33:03

This is so interesting. I think my main takeaway from film school was about using those technical pieces to create emotions and story telling, and I wish that I had the level of research and depth of understanding that I have about translating emotions into like communicable concepts back then, because I think I missed a lot of it. Do you feel emotions watching film or is it all technical in your brain?

00:12:33:05 - 00:13:03:11

It's very much just technical, but I do experience, I think I have a rich experience of film as a result of that. But that's why I gravitate towards, ritual directors that have a very clear and cut sense of individual style. So Dario Argento, David Lynch or Wong Kar wai, whether it be a color scheme that they routinely use or motifs of repeating music or just explorations of the psychosexual nightmare of, suburban American life.

00:13:03:13 - 00:13:04:19

Yeah. So for David Lynch.

00:13:04:23 - 00:13:14:02

Yeah, yeah. Do you remember your first physical experience with yourself or another, depending on whatever came first?

00:13:14:04 - 00:13:37:04

So my first, I don't know if I can remember my first, but, the first time I had sex was pretty lackluster. It didn't last very long. And even since then, I tell people that I'm comfortable with, practically asexual on a day to day basis. I'm almost like a robot. It feels like I just kind of adopt this likable, congenial personality, which I have very little.

00:13:37:04 - 00:13:54:21

And the reason I say that is because I'm also very skeptical of the ego of the self. Like peeling back the onion of the self. There really is nothing. After you peel back all the layers, the layers in your memories or experiences. What's your body's response to an environment rupture like history?

00:13:55:03 - 00:14:22:06

I am like giggling inside because I'm like, here you and I are having a conversation with like, no, I'm like a robot. No, I'm like a robot. No, I'm like a robot, you know? And we have we have many convergences and divergences too. Yeah. I mean, I, I totally resonate with what you just said because what a lot of people don't realize is my bubbly exterior and all of these, like, gestures and motions like, this is years and years and years of training, like training and performance and acting.

00:14:22:06 - 00:14:45:02

It's not that I'm acting myself every day, but it does take effort, and it's me attempting to communicate the way that I know other people communicate. You know, adding the affect. And when I'm super constant or tired or, in processing mode, when I'm trying to figure out, like competing signals where like the actions are saying one things, but the person's words are opposite, and what do I do?

00:14:45:07 - 00:15:00:23

That's usually when I lose my ability to mask and have this kind of like, gentle, side friendly demeanor and then my flat voice, people think that I sound condescending or very mad. Yep. The.

00:15:01:01 - 00:15:12:23

Now I get that too. But I really don't have a lot of, energy towards the nursing, so a lot of times I just flat with people and so be it. I don't have the, energy to put forth that effort.

00:15:13:01 - 00:15:32:17

Yeah, my mind ebbs and flows and mine comes and goes with excitement, you know, and I will get almost overexcited and have to kind of like, manage myself, especially if it's my special interest, which is sex, which is, where I live. You know, I get to talk about sex with people a lot or do it with people a lot, or, you know, some combination of those things.

00:15:32:17 - 00:15:36:07

So I am often excited because I've crafted a life around it.

00:15:36:10 - 00:15:59:09

Yeah. You had the in the beginning and situation again between you and I, because I have a very sexless, regular day to day life. Yeah. I was I've adopted there's a YouTube channel I found, with a funny moniker I have adopted for myself. I think it's like the smart virgin god. And it really sort of speaks to my, narcissism, my self-deprecation.

00:15:59:09 - 00:16:01:00

Sort of like Woody Allen's.

00:16:01:02 - 00:16:13:18

Interesting. Okay, okay. Oh, tell me, tell me more about your sexual world. Like, do you like giving? Receiving? Like, what do you like about sex?

00:16:13:20 - 00:16:42:11

I really couldn't answer that. I don't know, personally. I've not had very much sex. Really? Okay, theoretically, I would assume that I have a pretty vanilla. Vanilla, appreciation of sex. Like most people I would like to penetrate. I know I do not ever want to be penetrated, so I very strict boundaries informed by society, mostly. And, yeah, I don't think I can say much about that unless you can clarify the question more.

00:16:42:13 - 00:17:04:06

Well, I have infinity follow up questions, but you said you have like a day to day asexuality. What about your self-pleasure? Like, are you a masturbator? Do you enjoy getting off? Does it feel like something to do to make body function better? Or do you take joy in the physical experience? Like what are your self-love practices erotically like?

00:17:04:08 - 00:17:25:04

So I used to masturbate a lot more when I was washing karate, but that was during a period of my time of adolescence where I was more developing, and I think it's sort of the peak period of the male to, produce a baby or a child. Right? So therefore the body gets you more, you're more aroused oftentimes when you're at a funeral or bust.

00:17:25:04 - 00:17:37:18

Stop. You don't even want. So you think about those things. So yeah, you're right. I do treated very perfunctorily I would masturbate, get it over with. As soon as possible. We just go back to reading, studying and doing what I wanted to do.

00:17:37:20 - 00:17:55:16

Wow. So do you still experience, like, a clear headedness? You know, I often hear about post nut clarity. For some people, that's when, like, shame and guilt flood in. But do you experience, like, the physical clarity that comes from after that comes after the come?

00:17:55:18 - 00:18:15:11

I think I feel more awake. But if I really want clarity, I would trigger that in my body through exercise. So it's kind of like communicate your body, there's something exciting or interesting or important is happening. So I think that goes back to our biological evolutionary pathway, right where exercise would trigger that much better than, ejaculating.

00:18:15:12 - 00:18:23:06

Okay. Okay. So are you saying that you don't touch yourself very often these days?

00:18:23:08 - 00:18:39:00

I just say it out, right? Yeah. I don't masturbate. Really. I think I'm pretty content with not doing so either. I'd rather experience something like that with a, partner or another person. So masturbating for me is not really something I want to or care to spend any time with.

00:18:39:02 - 00:19:02:08

Okay, I'm about to ask you a question that is perhaps not very professional in that it is revealing of me, but also I don't think anyone would be surprised hearing it from me. Don't you ever get very horny after a photography session where you're seeing something very erotic and then want to go home and touch yourself? Or is it just like to keep the energy flowing, or is it really just voyeurism as a witness?

00:19:02:08 - 00:19:05:02

Like what is that texture like for you?

00:19:05:04 - 00:19:14:13

Okay, so that's a good question I do, that's okay. I completely slipped my mind. I do miss me after a very hot, voyeuristic photography.

00:19:14:13 - 00:19:19:10

So I do too. But I would like, like okay.

00:19:19:12 - 00:19:35:01

Because I typically I keep it very professional right when I'm there and I'm all, I'm like the eye in the sky. I'm whipping up the cone, so to speak. But I also find that, working out your legs. This is that was a username. I should be all right. Or the, hair that.

00:19:35:03 - 00:19:40:00

I was like, yes, I work out my legs. Yes, I was doing squats today. Yeah. LOL. My literal brain.

00:19:40:01 - 00:19:47:17

When I work on my legs, that's when I find the disaster should be more and I find myself more easily aroused after the fact.

00:19:47:19 - 00:20:11:11

Oh wait, that is so cool that you pay attention to that. I think you are the first person I have ever talked to that has told me that on or off part, and now I really want to ask my nerdy body friends like my friends who are body nerds, if that is. That's the thing, is it is it specific types of leg exercises like, like, well, cycling do it as well as squats or like lunges.

00:20:11:11 - 00:20:13:03

Like do you notice?

00:20:13:05 - 00:20:25:10

Yeah. No. This is primarily with, weightlifting. So, leg presses, squats, lunges, not so much count raises. It has it's really the areas around your thighs or your quadriceps.

00:20:25:12 - 00:20:27:19

I mean, blood flow.

00:20:27:21 - 00:20:51:10

Partially for the anatomy I read somewhere. Maybe those for the Just Neighbor channel or YouTube channel about how that area triggers that disaster or production, of the male body. And I was going to say it's important notice these things. So you can sort of hack and train your body and kind of nudge, nudge it towards actions that are more conducive for your life goals or yes, goals.

00:20:51:12 - 00:21:12:16

Totally. And I'm a big listener of the Huberman lab. It is my favorite podcast. And there was one of the things on testosterone production. Or there's a few things there, but it was basically talking about how sitting at a desk all day without getting up, without creating that blood flow, has adverse effects on testosterone or on sperm production.

00:21:12:16 - 00:21:35:07

I don't quote me on that. But you know, it it it lowers the lowers the vibe, so to speak. Do you feel comfortable sharing physical details, for example, like sensitive spots or spots you know, the most sensitive area or areas on your cock balls, etc.? It sounds like your asshole is off the table in terms of any penetration and I would guess also like mouth too.

00:21:35:07 - 00:21:41:18

But what about like massaging around like erogenous zones? Like, tell us about your physical body.

00:21:41:20 - 00:22:11:19

I'm pretty protective of my rear end, Sheila put it that way. And that's and that's informed of us. I think just like how society informs a lot of young males to, prize virginity, I think reading a lot of the Greco-Roman literature, had me prize the, inserter role. So I'd rather be the researcher. Okay. And it's this sort of, like, fantasy persona I'm cultivating for myself, but, yeah, my Roger zones would be just the tip of my head.

00:22:11:21 - 00:22:32:12

My penis being uncircumcised, I believe, gives me retention of more of those erogenous zones. Which works against me, too. It makes me extra sensitive, so I really can't last as long unless I really meditate on it and focus on, Rosie O'Donnell riding a horse or something.

00:22:32:13 - 00:22:55:07

Well, also just breathing. I mean, I am a big, big, big fan of edging, personally. And I also notice that I have more fun in partnership or in dialog when I'm edging. I edge myself every September. I just for the last two years. But I think it's going to be, like it's my own personal back to school every fall because I used to get so excited by, like, new school supplies.

00:22:55:09 - 00:23:16:10

And so the past two years, for my OnlyFans, I've done masturbation meditation sensation explorations, where I will edge myself for a month but touch myself in new and different ways every day. For ten to this year. It was like more like 20 minutes because I got excited, quite, quite literally. And I learned so much about my body in that way.

00:23:16:10 - 00:23:37:13

But I realized for me that breathing has a lot to do with it. Not just the mental picture of like, going somewhere else, but like getting to that edge and then like breathing through or breathing with or breathing into it and like riding on that edge, which is something that I learned to do first with a partner, but I'm now cultivating that for myself.

00:23:37:13 - 00:23:55:17

So I invite people to, you know, explore all modalities personally. And it's so cool. I mean, I know that people get all sorts of feelings about sensitivity levels, but I think it's hot when people last a long time. I think it's hot when they come right away. Like, I think all versions are good. And I'm like, let's just try more versions.

00:23:55:19 - 00:24:02:13

Wait, but did you answer about your balls? Do they like to be played with or touched or do or is that part of your self-pleasure at all?

00:24:02:15 - 00:24:14:08

Oh, I suppose I like it to be, played with pleasure and touched by another human being. Okay. For myself? Not really. I don't really feel the need to touch that area. Okay. Maybe because my hands are calloused and my hands are not a ton.

00:24:14:11 - 00:24:25:16

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Ooh. Okay. So you like tongues there? Do you like to have your balls in a mouth? Like sucking or just being taken into a mouth? Or is it like licking the preferred way?

00:24:25:18 - 00:24:41:09

Oh, in the mouth, licking. I think anything where the, there's where there's the sensitivity of lips or something kind of slippery or soft. Okay, okay. As long as it's not, sandpaper or blender or something.

00:24:41:11 - 00:24:57:07

Yes, please. No sandpaper near my genitals. Unless I'm doing a very explicit sensation play. I'm like, maybe a really fine grained one. And actually, now that I'm saying that, I'm like, well, I do use my exfoliators sometimes down there. Okay.

00:24:57:09 - 00:25:05:19

I don't like pain for myself, but I don't mind inflicting it if, somebody likes it. Although that's not something I really enjoy. I'm not a violent person.

00:25:06:00 - 00:25:30:03

Yeah, yeah, well, you know, and that word violence is so particular because I am very scared of violence. Especially watching it, seeing it up close. However, physically, my autistic parts really like intensity. You know, I like I mean, I like lightness, I really love the whole range of experience, but I really love to be squished and grabbed and squeezed.

00:25:30:03 - 00:25:50:22

And I am latex curious, although I have not dived deeply into it because I also really want to be, like I said, doing things in relationship and not just to check off a box, but to like go forth with great passion and curiosity. And so I, I hear that I am curious about your queerness because you identify as queer.

00:25:51:00 - 00:26:08:18

It sounds like your butthole is not on the table, even though I hear that there are good effects on blood flow and prostate health. But I'm also a butt slut, so it's like I like licking, massaging all of that stuff. How and when did you start to identify your queerness?

00:26:08:20 - 00:26:19:00

So I think it was when I met the leader of the local puppy coalition. So, pups, I think most of your views or. No, it's like a Leatherman, subculture.

00:26:19:02 - 00:26:33:21

Not everybody knows we have it. We our listenership is is a huge array of people of all different backgrounds. So like, I always try to explain stuff, because I don't know everything, you know, we've we've got all sorts of types here. So. Okay, so tell us about this puppy community.

00:26:33:23 - 00:26:55:17

Right? I encourage people to just google, puppy play. Right. Yeah. So the the leader of this coalition, they when I first met them and tried to become a photographer for their events, they were kind of informally interviewing me. To put it one way. And they were just asking me if I was gay because what was what was I doing at a gay bar doing photography?

00:26:55:17 - 00:27:18:16

I was shooting Transworld, which was a local, trans feminine rock band, cover band. Cool. So they said, okay, what do you like? Do you like X and Y and A and B and C, etc. and they've come up with the term queer and I since then adopt because I do find myself attracted to, sissies, transsexuals.

00:27:18:18 - 00:27:33:21

What is the Gen Z slang now, babe? Hot. Of course. Also classical beauty, physical, facial, bodily symmetry, youthful limbs, things like that. So it's formed by a lot of what I've, sponged up. Reading and learning.

00:27:33:23 - 00:28:00:21

Wow, that's so cool. What have you discovered? Either through your work as a photographer or through reading, or just through learning about all these subcultures? Like, what have you found to be intensely erotic? Like, what have you discovered about your sexuality through getting to experience so many other people's sexuality is in this voyeuristic manner.

00:28:01:02 - 00:28:27:00

So what I find erotic, I would have to clarify, eroticism. I think it's split for me where there's one that's more physiological. It's what I'm attracted to, which I cannot help. I love, The Feminine Mystique, the androgyny, leaning on the femicide, as I mentioned before. But for eroticism, I think I'm attracted to more of injury or death and just individuals who may be doomed and have very little to lose.

00:28:27:00 - 00:28:55:19

So they express themselves to the fullest potential, whether it be through conscious effort or sometimes, unfortunately, rapid drug use, which is primarily the population that I shoot. And I always think of photography as a death cult. You're grasping at something that's so impermanent, transient. You're trying to have a photograph. It can either be a love letter to your muse, which is my physiological side, or it could be sort of, a collection of photographs is like a subculture, right?

00:28:55:19 - 00:29:18:11

It's just all these dead memories and documentation of decay and, the abject. So that's what I saw a lot with my photography. And that's how I learned what is so-called erotic. For me, it's just exploring these limits of the taboo, what the human body can sustain or will sustain in the name of, pleasure and lust.

00:29:18:12 - 00:29:41:11

I love your thoughtful reflections. And I also am internally giggling because once again, I'm like, oh, yin yang, because in my photography, oftentimes I'll be like, look how I see you. It's so beautiful, you know, and I and my definition of beauty is big, deep and wide. And as I hear you speak, I'm like, yeah. It's also this ephemeral moment that will never exist again.

00:29:41:11 - 00:30:19:01

Like, that moment is past a dead gone. You know, whatever we create, like there is only now there is only the present, you know? And I think it's for me, it's always been a tool of self and other exploration and love. I would be so curious to know if there are things, and maybe you can tell us what kinds of things if if there are that you have found yourself turned on by sexually, you know, maybe you go home and have a release, maybe not, but that you would never fucking engage in yourself directly.

00:30:19:03 - 00:30:29:12

So I think, for that, I'm turned on by extremes. So I've documented people who have, stuffed huge things up their anuses.

00:30:29:12 - 00:30:31:16

How huge?

00:30:31:18 - 00:30:45:13

I think it's called the Mr.. Or the big Brownie. Or the ultimate challenge. I mean, the thing is, as big as my I possibly. Yeah. And it was a very skinny kind of meatless person. Almost.

00:30:45:15 - 00:30:48:16

How long did that warm up take?

00:30:48:18 - 00:31:12:10

There was no warmup. They were, sediments and, they insisted they wanted to have that thing shoved into them. And my life assistant that day decided to not those, just not show up. No call, no show. So I had to operate the lighting, the camera, and then kind of shove Mr.. Or big brownie into it.

00:31:12:10 - 00:31:16:18

Was this, this person's anus? I guess it was a system.

00:31:16:20 - 00:31:25:16

Wow. Wait, so you got to be hands on. Okay, okay. I wasn't sure if that was part of the shoots or not. Okay. Is it for all of them, or does it just depend on the person?

00:31:25:18 - 00:31:50:22

I think it just depends. My light system was supposed to do the lighting and shove the dodo into that person's anus, but I think I traumatize them from the lighting the fire shoot where they just said, no more, no more, because I made a joke about, oh, don't you think you could be the stud? What if I gave you some Viagra, which I did not have on me right, I see, but they took that joke as literal and said, no, they're trying to drug me to become, for me.

00:31:51:00 - 00:31:54:11

Oh, okay. I can see how that might inspire.

00:31:54:12 - 00:32:01:11

Yeah. So the message that I would need to clarify next time. But, yeah, I'm still in contact with this individual. He's a good friend of mine since college.

00:32:01:11 - 00:32:01:22

00:32:02:02 - 00:32:06:09

And he's actually one of my biggest, supporters of my photography. Absolutely loves it.

00:32:06:11 - 00:32:08:19

Oh, awesome. Wow.

00:32:08:21 - 00:32:25:15

That's actually the photo shoot. I deliver or not deliver, but share with the clown group that had, alienated me because I photographed the plastic tarp that was underneath the inflatable bed, and there were flecks of feces on it, and people just were very upset by it.

00:32:25:17 - 00:32:26:04

I said.

00:32:26:08 - 00:32:34:08

Okay, so me being not mature, I love to elicit reactions from people. So that's where the anti-social bastard part of me comes up.

00:32:34:12 - 00:32:44:12

Okay. Are you surprising these people with photos out of nowhere? Or are you like, hey, do you want to see this naughty thing? And they're like, totally shocked? Or is it something else?

00:32:44:13 - 00:32:52:07

Sometimes I'm respectful of, being consensual, sometimes I'm not. It really depends on my erotic mood.

00:32:52:13 - 00:32:54:13

I see, I see, okay, okay.

00:32:54:14 - 00:33:00:17

I do own up to I apologize to them. I accepted it and I quietly let myself out of it.

00:33:00:19 - 00:33:40:07

Okay. I'm sorry. I'm not exactly sure why I'm laughing. I just I think it's because I think it's something so wonderful about just self-awareness and, acceptance of consequences. You know? I mean, humans all the time. We're all exploring contingencies. We're all, you know, exploring these different things. So, Wow. Okay. What do you feel like there are any other notable stories or things that you've witnessed that you could share with us that are just, you know, extreme or not, just whatever has aroused you in the course of your work.

00:33:40:09 - 00:34:10:15

It would take all day. But I'm just trying to think about what's really formative for my photography and personal development. But, I've witnessed a an anonymous sort of fisting session where this large, third sex, the Samoan rented out one of those the database things I do either like budget in or civil suites, and they just had an open door policy and I was in a corner hiding in the bathroom, washing mental and just this, this individual.

00:34:10:17 - 00:34:40:15

And leave tips on the table or leave like boxes of cigarets as a sort of tribute tributary to the person being arrested. And it was very sketchy, actually. I that's one of the situations where I was kind of fearful time. Right? Because I just walked into a completely dark, apartment. None of the lights were on and nothing was furnished, just completely empty except for a bed, lubrication and ashtray and a very, very large Samoan process.

00:34:40:17 - 00:34:44:11

While I'm glad there was lube at least. Yeah.

00:34:44:13 - 00:34:51:12

And poppers. That's very popular in that community. Yeah, just a sort of dilate, the anus and loosen it up.

00:34:51:14 - 00:34:56:14

Yeah. The. Okay, what else is on that list?

00:34:56:16 - 00:35:23:16

I was the ones hiding in a makeshift cardboard box. Glory hole. Peeping through the hole, I was able to spot a grass, various sex acts at the local sissy, and, Yeah, it was basically on Christmas Day live. I was watching a two hour long limp dick live penis blowjob and just listening to their conversations as the blowjob was happening, right.

00:35:23:18 - 00:35:43:20

Some of the men aspired to be president. Some of the men are trying to kick their heroin addiction. Some of the men felt they've been neglecting their father for years and needs to visit them. So it's sort of like a glory hole. Confessions about the real deal, not the sanitized, artificial, glory hole confessions.com that you would watch, right?

00:35:43:22 - 00:35:48:00

Wow. How long were you in that cardboard box? A couple hours.

00:35:48:02 - 00:35:48:20

Oh, two hours.

00:35:48:20 - 00:35:58:17

Okay. What are you shooting on it? Because does it make noise, or do you have a silencer on your camera? Like, do you have a box that makes it silent, like, or is that just.

00:35:58:17 - 00:36:15:18

Yeah, I just use this entry level Nikon I believe is the D 32 or 300. It's the lightest, most portable, cheapest, quieter camera opinion okay. And I yeah I suppose that's what I shoot on. Okay. In case I reviewed this on my image in my equipment, I can just fine on.

00:36:15:20 - 00:36:32:19

Yeah totally totally good. Good point. So is part of it for you the thrill of being in these locations, like is that part of the turn on? Not necessarily in the sexual sense, but like the general state of arousal for you?

00:36:32:21 - 00:36:55:23

Yes. I think it's really just the thrill of being in these sort of chaotic, unpredictable situations. So I always say the macabre. Yeah, like the taboo. They're like sinkholes for me. Just gravity, like gravity is a state sucking me in. It's inescapable. I have to I cannot bear to do these things. So I don't really. I'm just attracted to the doom.

00:36:56:01 - 00:37:19:12

At one point I was hanging out with this in from Florida last year or last year. It was what you call this game, but they had a, transsexual. I will not sure what the correct, picture is. Prostitute? Sex worker. I'm not sure what you prefer, but the sex worker that they were in charge of was a, 12 nipple transsexual.

00:37:19:12 - 00:37:40:19

So they tattooed all these nipples on them, and I basically just filmed a, on a few occasions, pornographic sex scene. We were kicked out of an Airbnb at first because they noticed all these different men coming in. So then we went to this place called the Wild West Saloon or the Days Inn. And the John never showed up.

00:37:40:19 - 00:37:54:12

So the pimp actually had sex with the, model, and I filmed that. And that was when the dismount, the condom. And then some of the semen got on to my camera, too. That's always a funny, amusing story I tell people.

00:37:54:14 - 00:38:25:03

I mean, it's a very special kind of lens blur, right? So do you ever feel any. Well, I'd be curious to hear how your feelings, like, in these situations that sound like they really are some of the most difficult parts of human sexuality, like humanity in all of its forms. Like, does that ever inspire any certain feelings? You know, I heard you say that you were maybe concerned for your own safety or well-being at one point, but like, does it give you any sort of, like, squiggly moral feelings or just like feelings?

00:38:25:05 - 00:38:30:16

I don't know of, like something for humanity. Like, how does it land on you?

00:38:30:18 - 00:39:06:08

So for me, I only have a cognitive basis of morality. I know that people would shy away from these or look down in situations, but for me, I don't really see it as morally right or wrong. I don't think in those terms, nor do I believe there's a, metaphysically real morality to base these terms on. Right. So for me, I just even as actions, I see these as environments that I am in placed in or I place myself in, and I just interact as I would to derive amusement, enjoyment, or just to broaden my experience of human sexuality within these environments.

00:39:06:10 - 00:39:31:21

So I do know, and I'm very likely just rationalizing and justifying what I'm doing. But I do know that a lot of these people are on, methods. I means they're abusing drugs to have these sexual encounters, and they may not always be 120, 100% cognizant of what they're doing on camera. But at the same time, I'm still there to document it and there to sort of validate that experience.

00:39:31:22 - 00:39:44:04

Yeah. And there are some times where I shoot what I think is art. I find beauty in it. But then they would go the afterwards because they realize, oh God, that's what I look like on camera when it comes.

00:39:44:05 - 00:40:02:08

So yeah, yeah, I hear all of that, you know, and it's interesting and, and thank you for like, reminding me about your stance on morality because I heard it earlier. But again, it's here in this cognitive pocket, not necessarily lined up for me yet with the experiential. And so having it lined up like that is interesting. And right.

00:40:02:08 - 00:40:25:13

As humans all we are doing is creating stories for ourself with our consciousness to understand this experience that is so many different wires firing in our brains and bodies. And I think that there is something very poignant and beautiful and human in not shying away from the difficult parts that scare the shit out of most people, you know?

00:40:25:13 - 00:40:38:21

I mean, I would be scared to be in some of those situations. And while I've worked with many a sex worker, I certainly have been interfacing with people who are at the top of the privilege scale. If we're going to make a pyramid, you know, and so I.

00:40:38:21 - 00:40:39:15

Work in the bottom.

00:40:39:20 - 00:41:03:01

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's just interesting because again, wow, we are such a yin yang. So are there any other like, favorite arts or kink sensations, fetishes that you like that are part of your experience already that are worth mentioning, or any experiences of your sexuality or things that you have learned that we should, know about before we move on to hopes of the future.

00:41:03:03 - 00:41:24:20

I'm not sure if I can really pinpoint one, but I would just share with you some of the stories that other people have shared with have found the most sensational or shocking so-called, But I do have a long list. Actually, after every experience, I write it down so that in the vignette style of Sherwood Anderson, really quick few paragraphs and.

00:41:24:22 - 00:41:37:14

Right, just kind of a mix of prose and verse and. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I waited on literally all day to go through these experiences that get progressively stranger kinkier or more tense. Right?

00:41:37:16 - 00:41:42:05

Is that published anywhere that people could see, or is it just in your private archive?

00:41:42:07 - 00:42:00:09

So I'm pretty anti, commercial and so weird. So yeah, it's just for private or among very close friends. I will share them too. For example, my buddy, the line assistant, he's really one of the few people that has seen my book. Just kind of giving his thoughts and critique on it.

00:42:00:11 - 00:42:10:00

Wow. Okay. Are there like 2 or 3 more that you would want to just list out for us that stand out to you? Maybe.

00:42:10:02 - 00:42:35:06

Sure. And some of these might be a little bit triggering because I do shoot at sort of the bottom of the pyramid. Sexuality or sex workers. There's a person named H that I photograph once. They were in a pretty bad place in life, with mental instability and drug use. And I actually prevented their suicide, by calling people to intervene.

00:42:35:08 - 00:42:48:08

Unfortunately, they attempted it the next day, so they were able to talk their way out of the interventionist, stuff where they live because they live a sort of a rehab slash, reduced rent, complex.

00:42:48:08 - 00:42:49:07

00:42:49:09 - 00:43:08:20

And that was the one where it was very makeshift. So we both could a creative energy all at once. Like, they try to stick a dildo on the wall. But being from the southwest, it's stucco. So they found a shiny surface, and they stuck it on a Hamilton beach. So I always made the joke that, they use a Hamilton Beach three and one.

00:43:08:20 - 00:43:29:11

So it's like a microwave or an antidote, right? Or a sex partner. Yeah. So we shot I. And that's one of my more artistic, shots. So we try to imitate the looks of Dario Argento, with the color scheme, and the really soft, hazy glow, the vignetting. So that's one of the experiences that really stuck with me.

00:43:29:13 - 00:43:51:11

And of course, the last one I can share is just the first experience of me ever shooting erotic photography. So it was a very sketchy part of town. It was in a part of the city that's notorious for drug deals and murders, and I was very unsure or uncertain myself of what I was getting into. But when I saw them hanging off of the banister, I said, well, I'm already culture.

00:43:51:12 - 00:44:19:02

I might as well bring my camera in. And I just had a single hand, flash and and my Nikon, that's where I shot some of my eye in my is still the best work. It was just very raw, unfiltered. It was a local sissy who had gone through some pretty traumatic, familial, family experiences. They developed their fetish of nylon and becoming adopting the female role because of something that happened during the Vietnam War.

00:44:19:04 - 00:44:40:19

They fell out of a helicopter. It's a lot of things they were showing me. And as I was listening, I always hear, I will shoot, listen, ask questions. Yeah, I did like, informal podcasts in a way. Right? Yeah. Trying to get people comfortable. And I still remember the images I saw a pair of breast bombs in the sink waters all stuffed up with ashes in there.

00:44:40:21 - 00:45:02:18

It was a hunting knife on the counter. There's pizza with roaches. I felt a little unsafe. I wasn't sure if I was going to get stabbed. And I'm glad I stuck through that situation. And since then, I've learned to sort of help people de-escalate, trying to be more authentic and listen to people's stories, help validate their experience, and really just give them the photos.

00:45:02:18 - 00:45:11:16

I mean, at the end of the day, I just show, I give this show, photo shoots for free. Yeah. And in exchange, I have a, interesting experience.

00:45:11:18 - 00:45:29:16

That is beautiful. Okay, so entering the part of our interview now where we think toward the future, circling back to something, I wanted to ask you the very beginning, but now seems like the right time. What kind of porn would you want to make?

00:45:29:18 - 00:45:47:14

So for me, I would like to make, porn that really aligns with what I'm attracted to. So, transsexuals, female, sissies. The Feminine Mystique, of course. But I go back to the and over that pretty much encapsulates what I went to see on film.

00:45:47:16 - 00:46:05:16

Can you define for me your personal definition of mystique? Because I feel like I am accidentally mysterious, like, literally, like, I tried to tell everyone everything about me. And no matter, you know, there's it's all projection. It's all interpretation. Right? So how do you understand The Feminine Mystique?

00:46:05:18 - 00:46:37:22

So I think it's for me really more of like a floating signifier type of word, open in concept that I, I signal to others and to myself to show in a space where I can't necessarily give the most clear or distinct definition of. So it's like the saying, you, Jessica. Right. It's the ineffable. It's, something so subliminal that it transcends our ability to really comprehend and kind of nail down or pin down with, language and,

00:46:38:00 - 00:46:57:18

Yeah, yeah, it's so interesting, as I hear you say, that there's so many times where I myself have found myself struggling for words because it is almost an inexpressible concept. But I still try, and sometimes it is. Perhaps I'm realizing in this moment, just simply to be like, I don't know how to say it. It's a gymnastic. Wow.

00:46:57:19 - 00:47:13:15

You know, like that. That's beautiful. Okay, what, if any, are your bucket list hopes, goals, and dreams for the future? And this can be erotic, sexy, but not limited to that. You know, creative in general is always kind of my favorite place to live.

00:47:13:17 - 00:47:37:10

So I kind of like it to be a planner or a stroller or even in the early 90s, 2000, a subculture of web surfing. I don't know where I'll take me and I don't really care. I just want to kind of hop Ireland's Island and kind of click link to link. So, for example, shoe photography. I was walking around, I found a, cross-dresser on the Fremont.

00:47:37:12 - 00:47:57:20

They notified me of the Trans World Rock and concert. So I went to that bar, and from there I met the leader of the coalition who said, hey, I recognized your hairy chest because I actually shot the prior parade years prior, and he was leading the puppies. And I said, yes, you're the only one with a chest. And that's what really opened the door for me.

00:47:57:22 - 00:48:10:03

Within. And since then, I've been working with them, for all the public events, all the, queer related events that they run is they're a local organizer. So we've had that kind of, working relationship since then.

00:48:10:05 - 00:48:10:21

Amazing.

00:48:10:23 - 00:48:24:20

So I have really little hopes, or expectations for the future. Like I say, the future has been canceled and all we can do is really just repeat the past and relive, nostalgic experiences through this theater.

00:48:24:22 - 00:48:43:03

Wow. Okay. If you suddenly had an unlimited budget to build your own personal pleasure palace, or it could be a photo space like creativity Center, what elements would it have and who would be invited?

00:48:43:05 - 00:49:11:11

I think I'll try to inform and more along. The classical lines. Maybe the Greek restaurant or the exercising halls, Tokugawa shogunate, feudal palaces or pleasure castles and who invited, I suppose, really, anybody that I'm attracted to or anybody who is willing to experience and expose themselves on camera. So people who are very candid, people who are very open ended.

00:49:11:11 - 00:49:23:00

So I really like open world personalities, people that are not offended by questions. Yeah. People would probably lower or lower shame and guilt or higher thresholds of Qingmu.

00:49:23:02 - 00:49:43:20

Right? Right, right. Yeah, I definitely have had great conversations with people who self-report high levels of shame. But because of the agreement and because of the safety of the container, they're willing to share in spite of that and that for me, is a really beautiful thing. I mean, I feel honored and special to receive that. So I totally hear that.

00:49:43:22 - 00:50:01:05

Okay. In your opinion, because this is my lifelong work, my personal ongoing noodle, how do you think that we collectively, as a world, can co-create a sexier, more connected and loving planet to live on?

00:50:01:06 - 00:50:26:18

So that's something I really have no easy answer solution to. I'm pretty. I'm pretty much totally ascetic in a pessimist, maybe borderline borderline misanthrope, philosophical or otherwise a nihilist. I don't think we necessarily have to make the world sexier or unsexy. Yeah, it's kind of like, Bourdain's ass, right? You're equally thirsty. Equally hungry. There's no real good reason to go either way.

00:50:26:18 - 00:50:52:15

First or second, but you simply make the action or not. You could just starve and die right there. Right? So I really don't believe that life is necessarily worth living, neither do I think life is necessarily worth ending. So it's really easy to come up with your own, metaphysical guidelines. Health insurance world view or ideological lines that guide them.

00:50:52:17 - 00:51:16:02

Yes. Okay. Maybe morphing this question slightly, then what, if any, value would you place on communicating from one person to another? Or maybe groups of people? The richness of our unique individual experiences on this planet.

00:51:16:04 - 00:51:43:14

So I think, it's kind of like what you mentioned before about what you see on film, what you see portrayed by Hollywood as normalizing. And there's actually a concept I'm thinking of, it's earnest, of a cloud cultural hegemony. All we're doing as individuals or acting collectively as groups is when we use certain words, we're normalizing our version or brand of it, and we're trying to fight out or crowd out the space where other people use that word.

00:51:43:14 - 00:52:04:17

For example, it could be justice or equity or fairness or even what is sexy. What is love? What is X, Y, and Z? Right? So at the end of the day, it's really just this jostling, kind of like a, Logan Mackey, right? Like a war of the words. And I'm hoping to normalize what I find desirable or amusing.

00:52:04:17 - 00:52:33:16

More so, so that it could be subtle, but I know that, you know, I'm just one individual. And, of course, there's that secret network of case, but not every case there is the same, right? They don't it's not some monolithic group that has the same values. Yeah. For example, I know people in the furry community who are self-avowed, neo-Nazis, which would not really assume that ever, because furries, typically they're very liberal socially and politically.

00:52:33:18 - 00:53:02:07

But that does exist, right? I meant East Asian or nonwhite, white supremacist, which baffles me. But that draws me to those individuals they interviewed and talk to them and really get to know their side of things. So like I said, it's not a monolithic group. No group really is. It's all just averages, medians and our conceptual universalizing of all the individuals that we experience, right on a day to day basis, kind of like how stereotypes happen, right?

00:53:02:07 - 00:53:10:09

You had these, groups of experiences and then you collectively inform this concept of a group of people in your head through those experiences.

00:53:10:09 - 00:53:35:00

And I just have to say, I think your openness and non-judgmental nature, which I imagine is influenced by the lack of shame, a lack of guilt, lack of, you know, all the emotions that you experience. I imagine that is such a gift for the people that you are being curious about, just personally. And I think maybe you preempted my final question, which also maybe doesn't resonate.

00:53:35:00 - 00:53:41:19

But tell me if you have anything to add, how do you like to spread ripples of love in this world?

00:53:41:21 - 00:54:08:08

I think everybody has to just right. I don't believe in the concept of love, but I do try to spread sort of the interactions that I want to be on the receiving end of within the people. So the whole cliche can divide, be the change you want to be, and just try to, respect people's boundaries as much as I can be cognizant of it, because I know depending on erratic mood, sometimes I can be very, provocative, antisocial or asocial.

00:54:08:08 - 00:54:22:18

Just withdraw. Yeah, I but, Right. I just operate on that kind of basic golden rule, treat others as you wish to be treated. Because maybe some things in life are really just that basic. And, universally simple, right?

00:54:22:19 - 00:54:47:14

Yeah, sometimes. And then sometimes it's complicated because the more correct answer is for me to treat them how they want to be treated, unless I want to explode them. I have learned that. Okay, so maybe maybe a better wrap up question for you then is you're a curious human who loves asking people questions. What is a question that you would hope that anyone listening might noodle on.

00:54:47:16 - 00:55:10:05

I suppose? Is that icebreaker that I always throw out? It's just what is your isn't mine. What is that worldview that really drives your so-called, actions, motivations, desires, long term outlook, and maybe even how it's imprisoning you into a set, path, of course, with actions, because a lot of people can be very much, imprisoned by ideology.

00:55:10:06 - 00:55:28:14

Right. And I answer, we're all painfully aware, obviously, you know, the propaganda machine is so subtle, so nuanced and highly developed at this point, right? The elites, the experts, they're they're all using it against us, I suppose we live in a, behavioral modification machine in the modern world.

00:55:28:20 - 00:55:52:20

Yeah, yeah. And I would posit perhaps any sort of social connection and or concept of society is a version of that. Right? Because we as humans, social creatures that want to survive together, and that's part of our evolution, is we are trying to conform to norms or like some of us are like, I'm not normal. Oh, no, how I am so.

00:55:52:22 - 00:56:13:13

I love that. To say, if you ever find yourself not being persuasive enough with people that you socially interact with, just know that you have them. For such a small minded portion of their life, whereas the rest of their life is just constantly right, being mediated by ideology, the media, their other interactions or environment, the like histories.

00:56:13:15 - 00:56:18:05

So if you can't change somebody's mind, so be it, right? That's fine. You just move on.

00:56:18:07 - 00:56:33:04

Totally. And you never know what's going to happen after you leave. That's what I've learned to. Wow. Yeah. You have given me so much to think about and noodle on, and this has been such an enjoyable discussion. Thank you so much for being a guest on this podcast.