281 | Sexagenarian Sexologist: BJ on Woo

Luna Robbie
Oct 29, 2024
37 min read

Updated: Jun 26

60s heterosexual cis male, he/him pronouns, non-monogamous, divorced, sexologist, retired pastor, musician, based in American rural midwest, into: connected touch, eye contact, nipple play, receiving blowjobs, painting his toenails

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00:00:00:02 - 00:00:32:01

Luna

Our guest today is a cis male who is always seeking to be a sexier sexagenarian, who has been divorced for over 20 years after a heterosexual marriage that succumbs to the seven year itch, who now prefers non-monogamy. A self-described sexologist from a young age, he loves hands on, healthy and consensual experiences of many types, including connected touch, eye contact, nipple play in both directions, receiving enthusiastic blowjobs, and painting his toenails.

00:00:32:01 - 00:00:53:05

Luna

My favorite color sex story is red. A retired pastor and trained musician on a lifelong journey of curiosity that began with high levels of shame and continues to move toward embracing a more open mindset. He mostly resides in the rural Midwest of America and is looking to retire into producing more art projects. Welcome BJ.

00:00:53:07 - 00:00:55:12

Thank you very much, Wyoh Lee.

00:00:55:14 - 00:01:10:04

Luna

Can you please start off by telling our sweet listeners, if you had to rate yourself on a sexual shame meter today with ten being the most full of shame and zero being, I don't have any shame at all. What are you talking about? Where do you fall today?

00:01:10:06 - 00:01:30:19

I think number one, you know, actually, I'm still sort of sorting through what's shame and what's MeToo being just crushing because, you know, you're not showing my face today. So I guess I would have to claim one. But maybe that's just because I'm being wise and discreet so I can figure that out later.

00:01:30:21 - 00:01:57:20

Luna

Yeah, well, that's a really good point, right? Like we still have to take measures to protect ourselves because sometimes other people's shame has very real consequences. Or however we want to describe that sexual shame, residual sexual shame, second hand sexual shame. That's a really good point you raise. Can you tell us if there are any contexts, people, places or just periods in your life where your shame has squiggle up and down?

00:01:57:20 - 00:02:03:18

Luna

Or maybe there's been a shamed coaster ride you've been on that you could tell us about?

00:02:03:20 - 00:02:45:08

Good question. You know, I think now in my 60s, it's less and less of a roller coaster of shame because there's a perspective and, well, it's like, what else could someone do to me now? It's like when you've been through so many different things. But I think my younger self, needlessly felt excessive shame. So if I could go back and counsel my younger self, I tried to encourage my younger self to be less shameful.

00:02:45:10 - 00:02:49:18

But I guess maybe I had to sort of learn it the hard way.

00:02:49:20 - 00:02:56:18

Luna

Do you feel comfy telling us what that early shame had to do with, or like where it came from?

00:02:56:20 - 00:03:39:08

You know, I reflected on it. Well, okay. I can remember earliest, toilet train and. Well, okay, you know, us boys way where our plumbing is. To properly, urinate. It's a hands on experience, if you get my drift. Sure. And and, Yeah I remember. Oh, no, I well, maybe I'm taking a digression here, but when I took psychology in college, you know, one of the core requirements, the professor was talking about how boys are a different perspective because of having to grasp their members, so to speak.

00:03:39:10 - 00:04:07:12

But, you know, you know, I was trying to get, you know, the feel for using the toilet to urinate and standing over it. And the door was open and were okay. I think we all know certain areas. There's a certain pleasure when you're touching there, and it I was sort of moving the skin around like, you know, you know, how you're just getting used and you're exploring.

00:04:07:12 - 00:04:27:22

And it was very innocent. Yeah. My mom having to walk past the door, glanced in. She didn't really say, but she said in such a way, like I wasn't supposed to do that. Like, But it wasn't like, you know, severe. But I thought, well, me wanting to be a good boy, I sort of thought about that.

00:04:27:22 - 00:04:55:10

But. So then I think that's sir was the seeds that, you know, this kind of pleasure had to be sort of hidden and secret and what have you. Yeah. But mixed signals though, because, you know, actually, as a preschooler, I think in the rigors of family life. Well, you know, I saw my mother unclothed, but it was more like, you know, she was changing from this or getting out of the bath or just things like that.

00:04:55:10 - 00:05:26:07

And it's not like anything I thought was inappropriate. Actually, I think that was quite healthy because, you know, you're young and curious and you, you know, you learn these things. So, I mean, I had a basic idea of a woman's anatomy. And so I thought that was healthy. But then, you know, I think later on, my mother, she in a sense, in a around third grader.

00:05:26:08 - 00:05:53:09

So, my father passed away. And so here was my mother having to finish raise, raising her children alone and trying not to mess up or do the right thing. But, you know, when my father was alive, I think, you know, it was a healthy thing because at one point, you know, well, I had to urinate and he had to urinate.

00:05:53:09 - 00:06:23:13

So we both sort of were sharing the urinating together. But but, you know, and he was sort of as the older, wiser guy. So I give him saying, you know, this is you know, just sort of, showing your ropes. But I didn't feel shame in that regard. So, but, you know. Midwest Protestant, it can be a hot mess.

00:06:23:13 - 00:06:39:21

And and I don't blame my parents or my mother. You know, through my therapy, a therapist once told me, you know, your parents did the best they could do. But, you know, here I am, and I'm glad I'm here today, but that's, you know, part of the background.

00:06:39:23 - 00:06:53:14

Luna

I would love to hear. Now, on that note, what do you remember about learning about sex? How did you learn about sex? Maybe starting from as early as you can remember, going through the formative experiences?

00:06:53:16 - 00:07:25:10

Well, I'll tell you, I was sort of spoiled. You okay. When I grew up, this was long before the internet, but my mom, we had in our house two encyclopedias, sets, world Book and Britannica and so. And, oh, the random House Unabridged Dictionary. You know, when you go into the public library is that big, big, humongous. I mean, that thing's like a good 5 or 6 and, you know, real thick.

00:07:25:12 - 00:08:07:00

And I think there was maybe even other well, my mother was a, book lover, so. And, well, anyway, I could look these things up if I was in the encyclopedias. And then there was actually other books on the in the house that I discovered along the way, like, you know, well, you know, my, you know, the stereotype that your parents sit you down for the facts of life, you know, thing.

00:08:07:01 - 00:08:48:18

Yeah. Well, didn't have that, but, you know, it was this book called How to Talk with Your Children About Sex, and I think, but I love the irony is, you know, my parents never, you know, talked with me about sex, but there was a book, and I discovered it one day and was reading it. But then, right next to that book, you know, in good, organized, organized fashion was another sort of a pamphlet called sexual Harmony in marriage, which basically was intended for like, soon to be married newlyweds kind of thing.

00:08:48:20 - 00:09:21:18

You know, the, different particulars of, you know, husband, wife, sexual relations. So. And maybe that. Well, it I don't think that worked for me, but it, you know, gave me a lot of, information and not really many pictures, but with my imagination, I sort of drew the pictures in my head, okay. Because it, covered, you know, everything that a modern sex manual you get in a book store would cover.

00:09:21:18 - 00:09:51:04

And, well, so that was that. But and, you know, the encyclopedias, you know, put that in there. But it was those books that I think were more explicit. Because the funny thing I noticed about dictionaries, particularly encyclopedias to a point, but they sort of circularly defined things. They sort of refer to different terms, but they never really got to the nitty gritty, if you know what I mean, because I do.

00:09:51:04 - 00:10:04:18

I think that because they wanted to be safe and not scandalous. And so here I am as a young person. Well, it's like, you know, you just define what, but that's what it is.

00:10:04:19 - 00:10:27:01

Luna

So it's so funny to me that you mention that kind of circular, I will I think of it as euphemistic language, because I've been trying to do the opposite to kind of get around some of the censorship issues that the podcast has been having lately. So I've been trying to figure out how to take my formally explicit, explicit descriptions and like, rewrite them for all of the old episodes.

00:10:27:01 - 00:10:34:02

Luna

And right now they're just sitting there blank because it's it's really hard for me. So maybe I need to go look at an encyclopedia.

00:10:34:04 - 00:10:41:12

Oh, what will I say? Get the random House dictionary in a used bookstore because they do. Okay.

00:10:41:14 - 00:10:57:06

Luna

Okay. Do you remember from looking at those books, reading those books, any, like, feelings? Like, what was the emotional texture of the discoveries that you were having? Especially since it sounds like your parents didn't have the talk with you?

00:10:57:07 - 00:11:13:20

Well, it was sort of like, you know, you've it's a secret thing. And actually, I remember another book that I was snooping around and I found was, everything you wanted to know about sex but was afraid to ask.

00:11:13:22 - 00:11:15:11

Luna

Good title.

00:11:15:12 - 00:11:45:00

And but, you know, I mean, I consider that a classic. And, you know, actually, eventually I got my own copy from a I don't use bookstore or somewhere along the way, but, and. Okay, you know, all these books are coming to mind. I'm going to risk digressing. But there was another book called The Naked Ape, and it was talking about how basically breasts were supposed to be mimicking the buttocks.

00:11:45:02 - 00:11:46:02

Luna

Oh.

00:11:46:04 - 00:11:58:21

See, I was reflecting with myself. Oh, am I a man who likes buttocks on women better than breasts or then I got to thinking that because, you know, you can actually like both.

00:11:58:23 - 00:12:22:01

Luna

Yeah, I love it. I love that we can have boobs and butt. Okay, so you learned about sex in some books. How did that work when it came to applying it to humans? Whether that was like two yourself first or partners like, what kind of was the next part of your sexual education? And did you ever get a sex talk in school?

00:12:22:03 - 00:12:38:23

You know, sorry. In high school, in our health class, there came that special, unit and where we had to take the note home to our parents to be authorized to participate in the sex education unit.

00:12:39:01 - 00:12:40:10

Luna

00:12:40:12 - 00:13:16:10

That was in the 70s. And funny thing is, I think I was vaguely aware of things like condoms, like, okay, in the bowling alley, I remember, there was sort of a condom dispenser machine you put in your quarters. Kind of. I was sort of that, lone wolf, sort of shy guy. In high school. And so.

00:13:16:13 - 00:13:40:21

Okay, I'll tell you sort of a funny story. It takes take you back to middle school, sixth grade. Okay. I was sitting in science class, and this one girl, I think she was, you know, nice looking girl. Okay. Sixth grade, maybe I hadn't quite, I was just starting to notice girls, you could say. But she's just out of the blue in front of my eye.

00:13:40:21 - 00:14:02:12

Other peers said, Will you go with me? And. Well, earlier that year, I heard heard different people, sort of, you know, gossiping back and forth saying, oh, you know, so-and-so's going with so-and-so. And, at first I said, well, at first I thought, are they talking about carpooling? Like, who's going to go with who in the carpool?

00:14:02:14 - 00:14:29:00

But then I finally figured it. But then, you know, I caught on and it was a romantic, you know, thing, but but I just sort of thought that was funny. Like, yeah, at first I thought, why? Why these are these people talking about other people carpooling arrangements. Well, well, okay, maybe, I guess, I guess, when you get your driver's license, you sort of carpool, and I sort of.

00:14:29:02 - 00:14:57:06

Okay, that's okay. But, you know, I was sort of taken unprepared, and, I mean, I knew what she was asking. Well, and in sixth grade, like, I mean. I look back and I think, actually, she must have saw something commendable in me. And it was sort of her way of saying, I'd like to sort of get to know you better.

00:14:57:07 - 00:15:02:20

Yeah. But then but my response was where, like, will you go with me? And I said, where.

00:15:02:22 - 00:15:04:22

Luna

Kind of me do I get relatable?

00:15:04:22 - 00:15:30:14

So I, you know, maybe. And so it was a nervous laugh and we just sort of and then I thought, well, I don't know, did I blow my big chance to become the, Casanova of my school? Okay, whatever. You know, but, that awkwardness and I think that sort of probably solidified in my peers eyes, you know, here's this awkward, shy guy kind of thing.

00:15:30:14 - 00:16:07:23

But in the culture I grew up, you know, in small town Midwest, you didn't want to get a girl in trouble. In other words, get her pregnant. Right? And of course, you know, I, remember seeing, or, as a actually, you know, in high school, the sex ed class, you know, he was sort of also. Well, it's a bad stereotype, but he also taught P.E., but I thought he was knowledgeable and but he said he said avoid a shotgun marriage.

00:16:08:01 - 00:16:35:16

In other words, like, you have to get married because, you know. Right. She's pregnant. And so, you know, the sex ed unit in, high school to get back to that was a lot of biology and things like that and a lot of, sexual terms while we were given a list of sexual terms. And so here I was, all equipped at home with all these great reference books.

00:16:35:18 - 00:16:58:20

And, you know, my mom offered to tape it for me, but out of embarrassment and maybe a sense of pride, you know, I had taken typing class. Okay, I guess they call it keyboarding nowadays, but, you know, we actually use typewriters, right? Right. But and, and, you know, carbon paper. Okay, I digress, but yeah, this is old, like an old codger.

00:16:58:21 - 00:17:01:03

I but no, no, you know, I loved.

00:17:01:03 - 00:17:07:08

Luna

That paper weight because carbon paper had the dots on it. No, some of it, like you could rip it off and have layers. Yeah.

00:17:07:08 - 00:17:39:06

Well okay, I, we digress. But you're right. It a different time though. But but you know, I wanted to do this myself. And so I just went through all the lists of the terms, the sexual I guess terms and, and just, you know, did a conglomeration of the different reference books. Well, so I handed it in. So the teacher came up to me sort of one on one and so said, you know, this is you, didn't he?

00:17:39:07 - 00:18:03:07

He complimented me on my excellent job of, you know, all these terms defining. And he's he gave me the most ultimate compliment. He said, May I keep this as a permanent reference for myself? So I sort of felt like the sort of like, you know, I had arrived as a sexologist, even though I was sort of the awkward with it, with female, at least.

00:18:03:07 - 00:18:18:10

You know, I had a handle on all this knowledge. Well, okay. But, you know, I didn't have a girlfriend until I got into college and actually, never kissed until I got into college.

00:18:18:14 - 00:18:19:10

Luna

Okay.

00:18:19:12 - 00:18:37:15

So. So that's just how it is. But but, you know, it's sort of like I had this quote leave the hometown where you grew up because, you know, people sort of got you pegged. And I saw it was able to break out and get to. Okay, because that's what I was wanting to say. But your thoughts here?

00:18:37:17 - 00:18:52:09

Luna

Okay. Well, I, I love all of that. I relate to so much of it. I mean, I tried to get laid in my hometown. I just got, rejected it for, well, and I missed some social signals, like you were saying, like, go where? Like. And I would just, like, meet people at the wrong places, so it didn't work out.

00:18:52:09 - 00:19:10:14

Luna

But what about you discover in your own body, did that happen? Like, when did that happen? How? Because it sounds like you had a lot of knowledge, and it sounds like you discovered that there were pleasurable sensations around. So I would love to hear a little bit about your self-pleasure origins.

00:19:10:16 - 00:19:27:00

Well, okay. Sure. You know, and it was sort of the undercover of well, well, trigger typically. Literally what, You know.

00:19:27:02 - 00:20:03:17

I think I had noticed I must have brushed up against my nipples or something or. But, you know, I think if you're anyone's curious, you know, you're just sort of taking out your body. Oh, I do, it was like how it works, you know, especially when you're younger. But then I think life is an ongoing discovery. But I noticed that, you know, it was good when I touched my nipples, but then I thought, oh, I don't want to be caught, dude trying this out because, you know, way earlier I was caught innocently.

00:20:03:17 - 00:20:26:13

How you say sort of exploring sensations on my penis when I was, you know, trying to use the toilet, you know, urinate. And so I snuck into the dark closet and did that. And, well, it was sort of fun in the sense, you know, secret and dark. And then, you know, then I didn't like because of being dark.

00:20:26:13 - 00:21:02:13

You know, I, I could concentrate more on this season. Oh, then. So, you know, that was sort of my secret. But then, you know, I had read these books about, you know, what to tell your children about sex, and then, you know, sort of figuring this out. But, one time, you know, I was just in bed, sort of stroking myself and, you know, I had an orgasm, ejaculation, and it, you know, it happened.

00:21:02:13 - 00:21:40:01

But then, a lot of shame happened because, like, what did I do to my body, or was I doing something wrong? And, you know, having to work through that, but then realizing that, you know, this is okay. And, well, the funny thing is, I remember, in late middle school, you know, some of the guys sort of talking, during, I think our class in the Or you said, you know, how do you how can you get, you know, sperm.

00:21:40:03 - 00:22:04:08

And they were basically talking that. Yeah. You know, how you basically stimulate yourself. But I was sitting there quietly like I wanted to blurt out, but the answer was, hey, I know how to do that. Well, you know, I was sort of like off the edge because, you know, they thought I was the clueless, you know, shy guy, but it was sort of like my.

00:22:04:10 - 00:22:25:18

Well, whatever, but, so, you know, that's part of it. And but, you know, a funny thing is what I, you know, the inside of my elbows. You know, that crease?

00:22:25:19 - 00:22:28:00

Luna

Oh, we have the antiquated fossa. That was always.

00:22:28:01 - 00:23:01:20

A place of. But, you know, or even but the I don't know. Okay. It doesn't it it feels good. It's. But it's a okay. I don't think I could orgasm doing that, but it just has a certain pleasure I can't. Yeah, okay. But, you know, there's a certain things about your body that. And it's not like you're going to be, you know, condemned in this life or the life thereafter or whatever.

00:23:01:22 - 00:23:04:00

00:23:04:01 - 00:23:05:02

Luna

00:23:06:03 - 00:23:22:14

Now granted, if I'm, I say exploring pleasurable sensations on my body all day long, sitting home and failing to, exercise my proper responsibilities a life. Well then that's maybe a question of moderation.

00:23:22:16 - 00:23:24:16

Luna

Totally, totally.

00:23:24:18 - 00:23:32:06

But but boy, you know, you got it. You got to find a little bit of pleasure and release and life.

00:23:32:08 - 00:23:47:22

Luna

Awesome. I totally agree, and I love that you explored that. And now I would love to hear what your first kind of like forays into partner and pleasure were like, what was it like applying all of that knowledge to another human for the first time?

00:23:48:00 - 00:24:17:07

Well, you know, the girlfriend I had in college, I think, well, how could you say this? I think she was, horny in a lot of ways, in a hidden way. And actually, back then they called it manic depressive. But I think that they call it bipolar. And. Yes, so I think a certain high libido actually is part of the package there.

00:24:17:07 - 00:24:50:15

But we got into, a lot of, I guess you call heavy petting. And so she basically I was able to be taught by her how I could reach under her panties and stimulate her to orgasm. And so, you know, it was we never got naked together. Because I think there was a sense of shame yet.

00:24:50:17 - 00:25:26:06

It was a way where we could be close together and, you know, build a kind of bond. The only thing is, there was a lot of shame that went with that because, you know, we weren't, quote, married yet. And it was that cycle of, you know, feeling that, I guess those ones, it's those hormones that you have post orgasm and feeling close and connected yet then thinking, oh, we crossed this line.

00:25:26:06 - 00:25:41:10

We shouldn't have crossed. And then feeling the guilt or that. And so that that's, you know, that's what I think was in the whole journey of of working through shame.

00:25:41:12 - 00:26:00:12

Luna

Yeah, yeah. Was that shame from religion in your life or was it just the society of kind of the Midwest culture? I think, I think I've met the most shame filled people from the Midwest or the people, I'll say it, the ones who have struggled with shame the most. That's just anecdotal data, because I don't have, you know, solid numbers to compare.

00:26:00:12 - 00:26:05:02

Luna

But where did it come from? And was it just you or her or both of you?

00:26:05:04 - 00:26:37:23

Oh, I think it was both of us. And I think it is the Midwestern vibes. Okay. Certain conservatism. Yeah. You know, funny thing is, I observed with my mother, that as she progressed in life, she became more open and liberal in many ways. But, you know, I was born just on the cusp of the before the cusp of the 60s.

00:26:38:01 - 00:26:47:05

So, yeah, I don't know, you know, where it came from. I just, you know, I think it was the so part of the culture and setting.

00:26:47:07 - 00:26:53:14

Luna

Okay. So what happened next in your sexual unfolding that felt formative or important?

00:26:53:16 - 00:27:21:10

In my late 20s, I got the idea that I wanted to go to seminary and become a Protestant ordained minister. And then one of the courses, you know, a lot of us folks took in seminary was, premarital counseling and sexuality. And the idea was, that, you know, as ministers, couples would be approaching you, that they would want to get married.

00:27:21:10 - 00:28:02:12

And then wanting to counsel them and prepare them and then be familiar enough with sexuality. And, the adjunct professor that taught this, you know, he had plenty of films, explicit, explicit films, actually, no one was showing. Well, yeah, one was showing, a pelvic exam where we had plain view, you know, external female genitalia. But the idea was to the idea of that film was to show that, hey, pelvic exams are not threatening, but, you know, they're a good thing to have.

00:28:02:13 - 00:28:22:14

But the idea that we're all sitting there, see, I said up front because I figured, you know, I didn't have to see them. And I somehow felt less embarrassed. And we'll see. As a tall guy growing up, I always like to sit up front because in public school, they put me in the back so I could hear things and.

00:28:22:16 - 00:28:54:22

Yeah, but yeah. So, you know, it was a lot of explosive films there, actually. And I think one of the films was talking about like since Focused exercise or. Well, the point is, I think the professor was trying to, lessen our sense of shame or something because, you know, in a ministerial role, people approach you wanting in confidence to discuss things.

00:28:54:22 - 00:29:33:05

And some of that would, you know, enter into the sexual realm. Yeah. More like information because, you know, if a couple is going through a hard time in their intimacy, you know, maybe the pastor or minister could counsel them and then, well, the idea was I was trained not so much to do heavy duty counseling, but more of like, supportive and then saying, okay, it's time for me to refer and but the point is a safe person because you know, we're okay.

00:29:33:05 - 00:29:38:01

We're all here because of sex. That's how it is our original sin.

00:29:38:01 - 00:29:40:05

Luna

So powers.

00:29:40:06 - 00:30:05:18

Right? Yes, but but we wouldn't be sitting here talking if it wasn't for sex. Yeah, and that's just a part of the life of what it is. But, see, there was one funny moment, though, that I remember from that course. He was trying to get us all familiar with some various methods of contraception, and I think there were spermicide gel, you know, he was he put it on like a tissue and we passed around.

00:30:05:18 - 00:30:23:09

We could look at it. But then he had some diaphragm in the case and we're passing around. We'll see. I was sitting up front. So by the time it sort of made its circuit around the classroom, well, I was sitting about four feet from his front table where he had all these different things. And, you know, he had his lecture stand against there.

00:30:23:09 - 00:30:49:13

But I saw this diaphragm and maybe my playful measure. So if it sort of looked like a mini Frisbee, but I didn't think of this consciously, like what I saw, you know, I felt a little lazy. I didn't want to get up from my desk and walk over to four feet and sit on the table, but I just sort of instinctively flipped it with my wrist and it landed perfectly, on the table.

00:30:49:17 - 00:31:02:01

And then, you know, the professor saw that and his his reaction was, you know, it's going to be a lot more difficult to actually insert it properly into the woman.

00:31:02:03 - 00:31:08:11

Luna

I have to say, if I had known that seminary school was so, erotic, explicit and sexy.

00:31:08:11 - 00:31:09:02

Maybe I would have.

00:31:09:02 - 00:31:11:17

Luna

Considered that direction.

00:31:11:19 - 00:32:06:00

Well, you know, actually, if you want to get something steamy looking to the Old Testament canon, Song of Solomon or Songs of Song, and actually, I think I was reading somewhere that some erotic artists use that as a sort of reference to help them, because one. Now, granted, it seems a little bit strange. Well, the culture, but you know, comparing your breasts are like pomegranates or just, you know, all these different, things that, you know, it's rather hot and, well, okay, I could go on and on, but that's just an example that, you know, I think ultimately that was to equip us to be of service to others, you know, effectively.

00:32:06:02 - 00:32:33:11

Yeah. And yeah, you know, before I forget, can I fast forward a little bit after seminary? You know, I met my who? So the woman who, you know, eventually became my wife while I was, going attending seminary, actually, I just popped in one for Sunday evening service. And, you know, we just saw each other, and it was like we were a long lost best friends or something.

00:32:33:13 - 00:32:35:03

Luna

00:32:35:05 - 00:32:56:22

There was this thing where I realized that I needed to get a larger bed for marriage. So I had gone to the furniture store looking for a queen sized mattress. The funny thing is, you know, I this was a small village. Well, it wasn't it was sort of hard to keep secrets. Well, it happened to be that a couple had been married a while.

00:32:57:00 - 00:33:21:05

They were in the market for, a new mattress themselves. The wife of that couple sort of nicely approached me and said, well, you know, we know that you're not going to need this box string and mattresses because, you know, it's a few months before you get married. But, you know, we could really use that because she, the furniture store had, they only had one on hand in stock.

00:33:21:07 - 00:33:45:23

So they then they would have to order. But this couple was eager for a new mattress and box springs. So in a sense we sort of traded mattresses. They sort of got mine, but then they ordered theirs and then I got mine later. But but the the interesting twist is, they went into gether and bought us these really nice, sheets for the mattress later.

00:33:46:01 - 00:33:48:20

Luna

Oh, that's so sweet.

00:33:48:22 - 00:34:10:11

And I think I went to the post office soon after matrimony, and a couple older men were saying. We noticed that your seeds are pulled down well into the morning, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay. Well, when you first. Well, you know, sort of man to man. But the point is everybody sort of knows that sex is out there.

00:34:10:13 - 00:34:27:18

Luna

So I would love to hear specifics about how either your work as an ordained minister kind of affected your sex life or, and or what it was like once you just, you know, married someone that you could it sounds like you had had not necessarily envy sex up to that point. Right.

00:34:27:20 - 00:35:05:22

Well, yes. But, you know, actually we discovered you Saturday morning basically hanging out in bed and, where I had bought some nice scented oil and spent most of the morning just basically nicely rubbing it into my partner's skin and different curves and everything, and, well, you know, and, and seeing how she felt nurtured and cared for and where I enjoyed that, you know, it was a mutual pleasure.

00:35:06:00 - 00:35:48:00

You know, my wife then it got on my radar that these motels they have, I think, what they call fantasy suites. Okay. In other words, it was like, maybe, an early Roman theme, you know, the way they would decorate it or this one place, you know, like, like maybe Maggie's place. Angie's place. Susie's place. Sort of like a little hideaway getaway bedroom with, like, nice four poster, bed and, like a, Jacuzzi, you know, in the room where basically a nice little love nest.

00:35:48:00 - 00:36:44:04

I think, you know, these they made these motel rooms into, like, little love nest with different various kind of themes, some sort of rustic. Well, you could just, you know, imagination. So. But no, actually, we went to this one place, where we got to different rooms in one night in one and another. But there was this one room that had a round bed and the novelty of it and that, in the novelty of that, we tried a different how you say position for lovemaking and, you know, here I was, going being manly and, well, she was enjoying it, but at one point she said, stop, stop, stop.

00:36:44:06 - 00:36:58:15

And then, so I stopped, and then she kind of breath. This is, started again. Start again. Because I was hitting a certain pleasure spot in her in internally.

00:36:58:17 - 00:37:17:12

Luna

Ooh. So I would love to hear a little bit about any of your turn ons. Turn off that we haven't heard about yet. Right. That can be sensations that you enjoy, things you love giving or receiving, toys that you like. Just tell us some things that you're into.

00:37:17:13 - 00:37:50:02

You mentioned toys. I discovered this place. It's a place called A Woman's Touch, or, I think the website. So it says sexuality resources. But they have this whole wall of areas, sex toys and toys geared for men, toys geared for women, toys that are for both men and women together or. Well, okay, I guess there's still those.

00:37:50:02 - 00:38:44:06

And then there's, how you say, artificial vaginas and just, a whole lot of things. And I think that store was found by, if I recall correctly, like a, trained MD and a social worker. Well, you know, I've, the curiosity have gone into some adult stores and I've noticed that sort of funky smell or seediness, but they call it a woman's touch in the sense of what if you sort of elevated if you elevated it to a higher level, and, you know, particularly someone with medical knowledge, one of the co-founders were to vet these toys.

00:38:44:08 - 00:39:17:15

And I think they even recruit people like men or women, depending to give those toys a test run to see, you know, how well they work. And so I've explored some of those toys and, you know, there's some toys that, stimulate nipples. There's some that, you know, different vibrators, can go around the penis there. There's this one nipple sucker that sort of is clear.

00:39:17:15 - 00:39:42:06

So that you can sort of see how the nipples being reshaped through the suction. Well, it's sort of like a little platform, but then there's this clear thing that goes around the nipple, and that's one thing. But then there's this other thing that sort of a round ball that I guess they stay on better during play. But, it's those kind of things.

00:39:42:06 - 00:40:06:15

But, you know, they do have a number of different penis pumps. That in, you know, I've tried a few of those. I think if I had to pick one favorite toy, it would be the flush light. It's sort of vaguely shaped like a flashlight. So it can sort of sit on your shelf, and it doesn't look super conspicuous.

00:40:06:17 - 00:40:20:11

Yeah, but it, is made of this material that is sort of feels like the real thing, and I can soak it in water for a few minutes. And so it can sort of feel like body heat.

00:40:20:11 - 00:40:24:03

Luna

Ooh, okay. And so on.

00:40:24:05 - 00:40:52:15

And so it's sort of like, whenever I feel jealous that all these women have all these different kind of drilled holes, it's like I say, I got my Fleshlight. It's sort of like, that's the analog for us guys. For this guy at least, you know, okay, I have dabbled a little bit. I did get a vibrator, at my favorite store that you inserted, you know, into my anus.

00:40:52:17 - 00:41:13:17

And I think the idea of it has a certain. Well, it would be prostate stimulation. You know, I've dabbled a little, little bit into that, so, you know, I'm still a newbie, I'll admit, in so many ways.

00:41:13:19 - 00:41:15:22

Luna

Practice makes better.

00:41:16:00 - 00:41:27:07

You know, actually, I think actually good lube is part of sex. Well, I don't know if he called a sex toy, per se, but, you know, it's.

00:41:27:07 - 00:41:29:10

Luna

Only an accessory.

00:41:29:12 - 00:41:35:22

So Flay needs some good lube, in my experience, I guess.

00:41:36:00 - 00:41:40:03

Luna

Yeah, I think all play needs to have good lube on hand. I agree.

00:41:40:03 - 00:42:11:01

And so I've been able to, to purchase, like, different lube samplers, and just learning the different kinds of lubes, like, because there's water based lube, silicone based lubes. And then I think, there's a hybrid Lubes. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, but the ultimate lube is what the female produces. The female. Sure. Because that's the gold standard.

00:42:11:01 - 00:42:12:09

Okay.

00:42:12:11 - 00:42:28:01

Luna

What else is on your personal erotic bucket list? Are there any kinks or fetishes you haven't explored that you want to try? Anything else that you want to cross off, or anything else that you have crossed off that you just haven't shared with us? Yeah.

00:42:28:03 - 00:43:09:15

I had decided that, you know, I realized I had never been to Nevada State or Las Vegas. And I just needed to have a getaway, a change of scenery and a reset. Yeah. And and so I guess it's sort of. I have never written down a former formal bucket list yet. I think certain things that I curious about sort of have bubbled in my head, but I decided I wanted to see Las Vegas for my self.

00:43:09:17 - 00:43:54:09

But then while I was in Vegas and Nevada, well, if you go out of Vegas, there are brothels. I am the kind of guy who, like, researches things on the internet. But then realizing that the way these brothels, it's it's set up as a safe place where one can expand and experience and and in that way. So I was able to, you know, pick, I thought the best brothel and I thought the best courtesan, you know, for my first time.

00:43:54:11 - 00:44:15:03

And so that's what I did. I learned so and, you know, I'm still sort of basking in the afterglow of that, but. So. But it's still pretty, like, like, you know, you're maybe, another time around. I don't know, I haven't quite gotten there yet, but. Yeah.

00:44:15:05 - 00:44:19:12

Luna

So it sounds like it was a good experience. Were you nervous? Did you have fun?

00:44:19:14 - 00:45:09:18

You know, the way that's set up, there's going in with some unknowns. Because, I guess the rates or the prices are not really advertised. Yeah. But actually I, I sort of see a plus to that because, you know, in my sense I just sort of contemplated and thought, okay, what is a good, budget for myself that I would feel good, you know, spending and, you know, you have the chorus and you go to a private room and you discuss these things, and I just thought, hey, I say, this is my budget.

00:45:09:18 - 00:45:40:00

What can we do? And, then realize that, I guess it's booking a party or. Well, in a sense, I trusted the courtesan to curate a party for my budget. That was enjoyable. But for me, I think it provided a bit of a reset. Having gone through a rough stretch in my life, it was time to maybe treat my self to something a little bit different and satisfy my curiosity to.

00:45:40:01 - 00:45:58:23

Luna

So before I ask you a wrap up of questions, I would love to hear your opinion on what do you think we together collectively need to make the world a more connected and loving place.

00:45:59:01 - 00:46:29:14

You know, it sounds like a cliche at first, but I think if we made more love and less war, wouldn't the world be a much better place? You know, there's that 60s thing. Make love that war. Yeah. And if we could find all sorts I would like to see, more loving actions in this world. We do.

00:46:29:16 - 00:46:46:15

And less warring. And you know what that looks like? I'm not entirely certain yet. Well, I think this podcast is helping us move towards that direction.

00:46:46:17 - 00:47:05:00

Luna

Well, we're making we're making ripples together right now. You know, I do have a recurring fantasy of, like, okay, if I could just have access to the people who are leading these wars, maybe I could figure out how they're sexually not, you know, needs aren't met, and maybe I could help them. And then maybe the wars could be over.

00:47:05:00 - 00:47:11:06

Luna

Like, that is, like, kind of one of my biggest naive ideas is just trying to suck people into peace.

00:47:11:08 - 00:47:36:00

You know, why do people fight? Because they feel they're lacking something or they want something more. If we were to think, how can we be more loving? Not that we're being doormats or anything, but how can we show a little bit of kindness and love in this? Wouldn't the world be a better place? Yeah, as you say, ripples of love, I think, is what you said.

00:47:36:02 - 00:47:48:05

Luna

Yeah, yeah. What? What about some of the ways that you like to show people kindness in your own community? Like, I know a little bit about you, and you are a kind of community oriented individual.

00:47:48:07 - 00:48:21:18

Well, you know, you reminded me of something that I don't know if it's just me or when I've stopped at a convenience store or a gas station, people. And, well, I don't know if it's particularly women have approached me regarding their cars, but and I don't know if this is a thing. I've heard a different kind of kinks, but I think turns me on in a funny way.

00:48:21:20 - 00:48:28:05

Me pumping gasoline into a woman's vehicle. It. But.

00:48:28:06 - 00:48:29:01

Luna

I totally.

00:48:29:01 - 00:48:59:14

See when I was married once. See, when I was married, my wife and I, we, for some reason, we had to change cars for that day. I know, maybe one of us. Well, what, for whatever reason. But, I was driving her. Well, I guess we both had titles to the car, but the car that she usually drove, I had it, and I noticed the gas gauge was getting a little low, but I'm sort of my utilitarian thinking, like, you know, something needs to be taken care of because you just don't want to run out of gas.

00:48:59:14 - 00:49:15:15

I mean, at least the way my testosterone is driving me. But and I realized I went and filled it. I just didn't really think about it. And I wasn't thinking about turning on my wife. I just was thinking taking care of business, you know? But keep but.

00:49:15:15 - 00:49:16:10

Luna

Extra.

00:49:16:12 - 00:49:46:17

At least you know I'm why. But then later, you know, when my wife noticed that, you know, the gas gauge was almost, you know, was full and she was just nicely telling me how it touched her heart. And she felt so good that, you know, that, full tank of gas. And it just warms her heart. And I realized, okay, maybe a lot of women are wired differently than I as man.

00:49:46:17 - 00:50:14:18

Or that I had sort of tapped into something to to turn on women. But there was this one instance where I was, I had stopped at this place to get a bite to eat at Burger Place, and some strange woman came up to my car and she was obviously distressed, and I could tell it was all genuine. But she had started her trip and she had somehow forgot her wallet.

00:50:14:20 - 00:50:34:05

And so her her fuel and her car was getting down low and she didn't have enough to get to the other end of her destination where there were, you know, family, friends that, you know, like, hey, I left my wallet back, you know, and so and so, but, you know, I just said, hey, give me a few moments.

00:50:34:05 - 00:51:03:00

Well, I've just basically said, okay, we're driving over to that gas pump, and I pump the gas in her car enough that she felt seen needed. Yeah. And I paid for it. And then, you know, then she she had this glowing look on her face, and you know, actually, I was wearing a work shirt with my name on it, and so she just said thank you, you know, and and another and place of time.

00:51:03:02 - 00:51:28:15

I could imagine her just sort of grabbing me and pulling me into the back seat of the vehicle and having her way with me. Totally. The fantasy version, the mood. But but but the thing is, there were other. As if that was not an option. Right? But, you know, I didn't give her my name and address. I just sort of felt that it was my way of sort of paying it forward.

00:51:28:15 - 00:51:55:11

I know just, you know, relieving that there's a lot of suffering in this world. And I saw the this as a way to help alleviate that, you know, comfort the afflicted. I could you could say, relieve some of the suffering. When I look at it, I think I did my part to maybe spread a little bit of kindness and love in this world.

00:51:55:13 - 00:52:16:12

And then I realized, so that, you know, but that there's a lot of women out there that they get turned on by that idea. Yeah. And sort of like, I can tell you, like, like I was just thinking if I could open up some kind of special spa where you'd pamper the women and pump their do all the stuff for them.

00:52:16:14 - 00:52:32:04

Yeah, but then you'd leave on way where I'd check, you know, under the hood to make sure, like there's enough oil, enough washer fluid, and then I top off their tank of gas and, well, you know, maybe vacuum out tech. Well, you know what I mean? I mean.

00:52:32:06 - 00:52:56:10

Luna

That's really hot. Okay, so there's a couple of things I want to say. First of all, I love that story because that to me encapsulates my personal life mission to do my part to co-create a world where taking care of each other is the norm. Right? We don't get new norms unless we all participate. And that is such a solid, concrete example that's coming from an abundance mindset, like from this place of Enoughness, right?

00:52:56:10 - 00:53:16:06

Luna

You it sounds like you were living within your means, and it sounds like there was genuine need in this circumstance. Of course, we may never know the other side of it, but just trusting that that gift is there like that's hot. And then also like a year or two ago, my best friend revealed to me that her husband regularly will, like, take her car to just fill it up with gas.

00:53:16:06 - 00:53:31:18

Luna

So I learned that was a thing and I was like, oh, and I like got wet. Like hearing that I had a splash moment. I was like, oh my God. I was like, I'm sorry. I just got turned on by this, like dynamic. Not like your husband specifically, but, you know, like and and I thought that was so hot because it's so nurturing.

00:53:31:18 - 00:53:54:09

Luna

It's so sweet. You know? And then since then, I shared that story. I've shared that story in a couple places and kind of, you know, made my own roads of opening to more receiving. And so I now in recent past, recent, very recent months have been spoiled by a lover who has given me gas. And it's one of the hardest fucking things because I'm literally fueled like that.

00:53:54:09 - 00:53:59:22

Luna

And snacks and nurturing and I just fucking love that. So what a beautiful story.

00:54:00:00 - 00:54:25:06

You know, in an ideal world, you know, instead of just like, I guess there's things like, you know, different apps, you can send people moolah or, you know, transfer funds to them. Yeah, yeah, but I wish there was a service where, you know, the 56 that those those men in those cute sort of those uniforms, you know, full service gas stations.

00:54:25:06 - 00:54:31:00

Luna

Yeah. I mean, what if it was like a real full service gas station, like full.

00:54:31:00 - 00:54:33:13

Service. Oh, okay. I do.

00:54:33:15 - 00:54:44:03

Luna

I do. When you first said that, I was like, imagining you pumping gas in a tiny little hat, and I think, like, I don't know, that's hot. That's just hot.

00:54:44:05 - 00:55:09:00

I see, but but I'd like it if there was some kind of app on my phone that. Yeah, it would go a step beyond just the transfer of funds, but that, you know, you could go to a particular outlet where they had the fuel, but there would be the guy in that uniform doing it for you and then washing you into maybe, you know, as a man, I realize there's certain things that sort of turn me on.

00:55:09:00 - 00:55:36:09

But as I'm progressing more in time, I'm realizing, you know, a lot of women seem to be wired a bit different than me, I noticed, and then it's sort of like cracking this code and sort of like I learn to crack the code and it's sort of almost a mischievous but fun way that I sort of figure out how I can sort of turn them on.

00:55:36:11 - 00:55:56:06

Luna

I totally get I mean, that's that's what I'm trying to do here with all these questions. Right? For the last six years, I've just been asking people about their sex lives, and I'm trying to crack the codes. So you sort of preempted my last question. You can give another answer if you want, but lately I've been asking people if you had to be a sex worker for two years, how would you serve?

00:55:56:06 - 00:56:11:19

Luna

Like if this was the new norm in our country? And but I feel like your gas station, full service gas pumping idea is. Or even if just the spa for the woman. I feel like that checks that box. But it. Would you be any other type of sex worker? Like if you had to be a sex worker, what would you be in anticipation?

00:56:11:19 - 00:56:40:18

In preparation of this interview, I started sort of trying to imagine myself to your required service here. Well, yes. Just pumping the gas would be part of it, actually, that would be sending the lovely lady that I had, you know, been of service to before she got sent on her way. You know, she would her vehicle would be all prepped and, you know, then she'd be still having that afterglow because thinking of that guy who would pump the gas in her.

00:56:40:20 - 00:57:06:16

Well, okay. But but but then, you know, there's ways that you can pamper women like, you know, massage, spend hours massaging oils or lotions into their, curves or just spoiling a woman with attention. And if that involves, you know, if that involves where she has to, how you say sake, what was a jump? My bones, I think.

00:57:06:18 - 00:57:08:00

Luna

Okay, jump your bones. Yeah.

00:57:08:05 - 00:57:11:23

If that happens, that happened. If that happens, that happens.

00:57:12:01 - 00:57:13:15

Luna

It's available.

00:57:13:17 - 00:57:37:03

But then I got to thinking, you know it. Well, this would be. See, this would be the alternative. Or replace military service with, you know, sex work service for two years. But then I got to thinking, you know, after my two year stint, I think I'd sure like to enter what I would call the sex service reserves. Yeah, we do.

00:57:37:04 - 00:57:50:04

You know, once a month I would have a weekend where, you know, I go serve and then once a year I'd have a week. But then the idea, though, if, if dire need arose, I could be called up.

00:57:50:06 - 00:57:51:04

Luna

Called to active.

00:57:51:04 - 00:57:52:10

Duty.

00:57:52:12 - 00:57:58:04

Luna

It's like you can see the inside of my brain. Sometimes I feel like you can look.

00:57:58:06 - 00:58:09:09

Inside my skull. The sort of thought, that analogy, because you know, you were talking about, you know, service like with fires. But yeah. So, you know, this would be love service.

00:58:09:10 - 00:58:24:01

Luna

That is how I'm thinking of it. Because you said make love, not war. That is where this idea in question came from, right? I'm like, what if you know or like, what if all our military people like, what if we get the first? It's like, what if we all had to have a service oriented job like food service, something terrible, or people are mean to you?

00:58:24:06 - 00:58:44:05

Luna

And then I was like, the what if it was sexual service? It's like, you can I'm so transparent to you. Damn. And we and I will say to our sweet listeners before we got on, we have discovered that we have a lot of this similar taste in sci fi, like reading fiction in classic sci fi books. So and maybe a little part of that, I don't know.

00:58:44:07 - 00:59:01:09

Luna

So to wrap up, I would love to hear if you had an unlimited budget to build your perfect creation space playroom, dungeon, mansion, palace, pleasure palace, castle, hotel, etc. what would it be like?

00:59:01:11 - 00:59:35:18

You know, I thought about this. It would be really humungous and big and who knows, maybe actually does have like monorails where it would connect all these different locales. I mean, we're talking big, big, but, you know, I think I saw something, some series. Well, it's not what it used to be, but there was a time when, I think it was New York, the Catskills, where they had these sort of camps people would go for most of the summer.

00:59:35:20 - 00:59:52:12

I think it was The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel. They had, one of those seasons was that the family was staying up in some camp in the Catskills. And so they had the classes for the adults and the children, but, you know, sort of a retreat there, but with a how you say.

00:59:52:16 - 00:59:55:07

Luna

Yeah, different lessons.

00:59:55:09 - 01:00:31:02

Well you know, you see with those kind of things. But then I sort of thought if there could be a clothing optional option, so to speak, you know, if you, if you wanted to be naked, walking around indoors, outdoors, you could not that it would be forced on you. But then I'm familiar with, what you call family social nudism, where any kind of sexual activity is reserved to be done in private, not out in the open.

01:00:31:04 - 01:00:38:10

Luna

Okay. So you would have a family friendly zone and then adults only zone. I am so into that. That's my dream.

01:00:38:12 - 01:01:17:00

Well, the whole point is freedom of choice. I just would want a bit of everything okay. To be able to explore at my whims. Yeah, because. Just because. Because I think back of my Boy Scout days of the knots, I learned to tie. Well, wouldn't it, with a don't twist of knot tying on each other with it. And just the option to be able to explore this whole big panorama that I am more and more discovering, out there.

01:01:17:00 - 01:01:26:22

Maybe it's sort of. I don't know what to say. It's underground, but it's sort of a nice or.

01:01:27:00 - 01:01:31:05

Luna

I was going to say, is it a niche?

01:01:31:06 - 01:01:36:07

Recently there was this big event, I think it was it called Kink Fest or something.

01:01:36:09 - 01:01:37:23

Luna

I went to kink, so I'm not sure.

01:01:37:23 - 01:01:58:23

But you know, the if there could be ongoing workshops in the various kinks out there. Yeah, that you wouldn't necessarily have to wait for an annual convention or whatever or. Yeah, if you could have an ongoing.

01:01:59:00 - 01:02:08:20

Luna

That is I want to create a museum space, play space, family friendly education center that has the best gift shop ever. And it sounds like we share that dream.

01:02:08:22 - 01:02:13:01

And maybe we can make at least part of that reality in our time.

01:02:13:01 - 01:02:24:06

Luna

I hope we shall see. That's a that's what we're working toward now, PJ, thank you so much for coming on today and taking the time to share your sex stories.

01:02:24:08 - 01:02:26:03

But, well, thank you so much.

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281 | Sexagenarian Sexologist: BJ on Woo

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