262 | Sexual Surrogacy & Squirting: Chet on Woo
- Luna Robbie
- Apr 23, 2024
- 49 min read
35 straight-ish Indian-American man, he/they pronouns, kitchen table poly, surrogate partner therapist and workshop facilitator.
00:00:00:03 - 00:00:25:01
Luna
And our guest today is a 35 year old kitchen table, polyamorous, street ish Indian-American person who has multiple partners. He loves creating healing experiences through touch, inviting fun and play into intimate connections, and spreading a wholesome sense of slutty ness in and outside of their artistic community. They work as a sexual surrogate partner, therapist, and sex educator with us today from Washington, D.C..
00:00:25:02 - 00:00:26:05
Luna
Welcome, Chet.
00:00:26:07 - 00:00:31:08
Chet
Hey. How are you? You have such a telephone voice.
00:00:31:10 - 00:00:50:01
Luna
Oh, well, I practiced my breathing. And in fact, I am trained as an actor. Film school and actor trained. And yes, I do get squeaky when I get excited or regular, and I do talk like a little kid a lot, which you may be heard before we started, but. Thank you. Okay, so, Chet, could you please start off by rating yourself on sexual shame?
00:00:50:01 - 00:01:01:05
Luna
A meter with ten being so full of shame and 1 or 0 being like, what a shame. I don't have any shame. Where do you fall today? When if ever, does it fluctuate?
00:01:01:06 - 00:01:17:18
Chet
What I would say is probably like .5.25. Like I don't want to. I don't believe in using extreme numbers. So, I have, but I am known as the shameless friend. It's a fortuitous thing because my work centers are, destroying shame.
00:01:17:20 - 00:01:18:13
Luna
I love it.
00:01:18:15 - 00:01:37:15
Chet
I would say that over time it's slowly trended towards even more shameless. But I've naturally been very fortunate that I, from a very, very young age, have had little to no shame and have been relatively shameless as a person, which also gets me into plenty of trouble.
00:01:37:16 - 00:01:51:05
Luna
Relatable. How does it get you in trouble? Because I accidentally will explode people with questions that I don't realize are like exploding a shame landmine. But I'd be curious to hear how it gets you in trouble. Or do you mean like naughty things?
00:01:51:07 - 00:02:15:15
Chet
The concept of TMI does not exist. Or when you're like, oh, here's my open chair. Or when it's like, I mean, shame in a non-sexual context. Like just I'm the person who will go up and ask the question that everyone would like to ask, but everyone's like, oh, well, that's impolite, or oh, like, I'm going to look like an idiot asking that.
00:02:15:15 - 00:02:32:17
Chet
And I'm like, I don't care about looking like an idiot. And I don't care if someone thinks it's maybe a little bit much where they're like, oh, like, I don't want to ask for something that's going to make me look like selfish, or I'm not going to ask you to like, hey, like, you parked in this spot. Kind of weird.
00:02:32:17 - 00:02:44:12
Chet
Like, any way you could, like, move up, like, I'm like, now. Like I'm going to get out of my car and be like, do you mind moving up? You know, instead of, like, being, like, all overly polite and western about it.
00:02:44:13 - 00:02:46:12
Luna
Were you always like this?
00:02:46:14 - 00:03:11:09
Chet
Well, my dad, who I have worked my entire life to not be like and for the most part have been relatively successful, that he's a man of negative shame. And so I have historically hated connecting the ways that him and I are similar. But I think, you know, I probably got that from him. But I've always been very, very low on the amount of shame that I felt in general, but especially around sex.
00:03:11:11 - 00:03:33:11
Chet
It was just a very natural place for me, and it's only trended towards more and more self acceptance or less and less shame. But you know, there are moments that I experienced some amount, but it's not like deeply held shame unfortunately.
00:03:33:12 - 00:03:51:15
Luna
Okay I would love to hear it. Sounds like you have a wealth of knowledge when it comes to sex. It also sounds like you are a person and I hope you tell us more about your work. Who is used to holding space for others in sexual realms? So I would love to hear. How do you learn about sex?
00:03:51:17 - 00:04:16:00
Chet
Probably the same way that most young boys learn about sex, which is pornography. This idea is a very important one to me because as a surrogate or a therapist, I specialize in working with sex workers. Especially because I believe especially people who are making content that they're teaching the next generation of young men a lot about what they learn about sex.
00:04:16:00 - 00:04:39:06
Chet
And so if if our sex workers can have a better relationship with their bodies, with their intimacy and with their sexuality, then these young men are going to learn how to treat people in a much more kind, loving and delightful way. And, you know, you'll have less, Andrew Tate in the world.
00:04:39:08 - 00:04:56:02
Luna
What in your ideal world does a better relationship with a sex worker and their body. How does that translate into onscreen content. Like what would your ideal Andrew porn look like or however you think of it.
00:04:56:04 - 00:05:37:07
Chet
I would love to see a world where because more people who do different kinds of sex work are more comfortable with their bodies, that we see a greater diversity of people who are out there and expressing themselves, who are featured and shared and seen for their body, regardless of what kind of pubic hair they have and what color their skin is and what their body shape is and how old they are and as long as they're consenting and all of the various varieties of how of body configurations and shape sizes and diversity and gender as well.
00:05:37:09 - 00:06:05:19
Chet
I would love to see a world where more people feel empowered to, you know, step in to their sexy, to make content that they feel beautiful in. And then for the young people watching that, learning to say, hey, that person looks like they're having a great time. I like that, and that person might not be the same person that you normally would see on the cover of Vogue.
00:06:05:21 - 00:06:13:07
Luna
Yeah. Okay, so you started learning about sex through porn. What do you remember unfolding next in your own education?
00:06:13:09 - 00:06:46:12
Chet
So I remember getting into porn, having my first sex dream, imagining it was me in a group situation with all of the people that I was, like, kind of into at the time that I thought were cute in school. And in like a fun like everyone loving on everyone group sex situation. And as I like further developed and then like, you know, that was like in the fourth grade and then like there was like a I think a year there where I kind of like somehow had forgotten about porn.
00:06:46:12 - 00:07:14:17
Chet
But then, you know, back in middle school, a as many people generalize about a 12 year old boy, like, was masturbating a lot and watching a lot of porn and scrolling around seeing what's what's there. Except at the time, you know, it was like, oh, I'm going to download this on like Kazaa, and I'm going to hope that it's not a virus and it's going to like, be hidden on a floppy disk that I hide behind a clock, like somewhere in my room, you know.
00:07:14:19 - 00:07:47:06
Chet
Yeah. So that interest in group dynamics was pretty early from some of my earliest fantasies. And then watching more pornography I generally like found that most of the things that really spoke to me had to do with rebellion and rebellion against shame, that today I could identify a societally imposed shame. You know, things like public sex and exhibitionism is obviously a push against shame.
00:07:47:08 - 00:08:01:19
Chet
Group sex, in my mind, is a push against shame, because when something is happening between two people, it is a private matter. When there are three people or more in a situation, it loses its aspect of being a private affair. I think.
00:08:01:19 - 00:08:04:05
Luna
The biggest private matter.
00:08:04:06 - 00:08:39:17
Chet
It's a bigger private matter and sure. But you know, the reality of it is that in a group situation of three or more people, you are embracing the reality that you are attracted to multiple to a multiplicity of people. And you can have care, feelings, attraction towards multiple people. And so since that breaks society's, you know, monogamous one one mold, you know, it really I think it's a big fear to shame around that.
00:08:39:17 - 00:08:52:18
Chet
It's a big recognition of like owning, your sexuality because there's a large proportion of people that, you know, you look at and you're like, oh, I wonder what they're like about, you know, or like, oh, you know.
00:08:52:18 - 00:08:55:09
Luna
Like I do. And everywhere I go, I wonder.
00:08:55:11 - 00:09:33:01
Chet
Everywhere I go and it's like, it's so honest to then step into that scenario where you're like openly owning that, owning that. It's not just built upon, you know, some societal constructs around like either it's like, oh, this is like the, the only expression of love or oh, this is like strictly for procreation or whatever, you know, depending on whatever your background is or however you know what society you come from, but like it's a big you to all that.
00:09:33:01 - 00:09:54:04
Chet
And so a lot of this sexuality that I experienced had to do with that. In fact, I noticed it recently when Roe v Wade was overturned and I was like, oh, you're going to tell me that, like now because you're going to make it like really difficult for people to, like have intercourse where there's pregnancy risk. Oh breeding kink.
00:09:54:04 - 00:10:22:05
Chet
Hello. You know, and like I continue to see that evolution as, as I see hey this is like what is expected of me or expected of people around me. My natural inclination sexually is, you know, to push back. And so I continued to see that through, high school, where many of my earliest sexual situations were a group situations.
00:10:22:06 - 00:10:32:06
Luna
Oh, really? Okay. So went oh with. Okay. Yeah. Tell us about whatever formative experiences feel relevant. And then I would love to hear how that kind of evolved into the work that you do now.
00:10:32:08 - 00:10:49:02
Chet
I remember being in class and like two girls at one. I ended up dating for a while, and when I ended up hooking up with for a while, two girls, like, under my desk, like, reaching under and like, like, jerking me off in class, and I remember it. Well.
00:10:49:04 - 00:10:51:00
Luna
How old were you, like, in high school?
00:10:51:02 - 00:11:08:03
Chet
I was like, yeah, like a sophomore, freshman, sophomore. And then I remember later one of those people and I used to, like, hook up in class, like we'd be in the back of the chemistry lab, and I'd be, like, getting a blowjob or we'd be like, in, like, the stairwell. Just like fucking in between periods.
00:11:08:06 - 00:11:15:22
Luna
Where were teachers just, like, not paying attention or how to or did people just not like how how on earth was possible?
00:11:16:01 - 00:11:40:04
Chet
Listen, somehow I didn't go to jail. So then, you know, like when it comes to, like, my virginity, for example, I'd been dating this this girl, I was really into her. Really, really into her. And I thought I was like, I'm going to lose my virginity. This girl. And I was like, all like, jazzed about it. And then, she kind of like, like, hosted me out of nowhere.
00:11:40:04 - 00:12:05:07
Chet
And then I was like. But I didn't have the dating experience yet. Only had, like, a couple of girlfriends prior to that. One of my friends one day, and I remember it was my 16.5 birthday. He had said to me, he's like, what are you going to be done with? Like this whole thing? Like it's, you know, you've been like trying to figure out what's going on for like 3 or 4 weeks or a month or whatever it was.
00:12:05:09 - 00:12:32:20
Chet
And like, you're not getting any communication. What is going on? When are we done with this? And I was like, you know what? I'm done with it today. And that night somebody had came over to his house and, I lost my virginity in a group sex situation with her. And two of my buddies. I remember looking at the clock at my 16.5, like, birthday and, like, being like, this is the perfect moment, like, to the minute.
00:12:32:20 - 00:12:42:15
Chet
And I was like, that's when I was like, entered. And I remember being all proud of my stuff. I was like, I lasted 11 minutes. That's a good that, you know, that's a good showing here.
00:12:42:20 - 00:12:57:06
Luna
Okay. So your first experience was in a group sex situation, and it sounds like you still have a lot of group sex. Is that your favorite type of sex or. I mean, I know everything is great for its own reasons, but it sounds like it's still a robust part of your regular experience.
00:12:57:07 - 00:13:11:09
Chet
And so it's a robust part of my regular experience. But it's certainly not my favorite. But I and I'm certainly a lot more picky about what kinds of group situations I find to be fulfilling. Yeah. Satisfying for me.
00:13:11:15 - 00:13:13:18
Luna
Yeah. What makes it satisfying for you?
00:13:13:20 - 00:13:37:17
Chet
So the state I love to get to is a place where I live, is where I end and someone else begins. And that is a wonderful place for me to get to. It's a wonderful place for me to go to with other people. But how do I know that they're there? Eye contact is a is one. I'd say even more important to me is breath.
00:13:37:19 - 00:14:12:22
Chet
I always with partners, try to and prefer to stay in sync breath wise. And if I break out of that to stay within a rhythm that still comes back together depending on what is going on in a situation. So like someone's breathing fast because they're having an orgasm, you know, I'll probably be at double time of their breath, but I want to continue to sync up and move at the same cadence and feel connected that way.
00:14:12:22 - 00:14:34:12
Chet
And another way is, is the amount of physical contact. And, you know, if it's, the way birds made a brief meeting of the genitals, as David Attenborough would put it, that says one thing, but I want to touch. I want to feel skin and skin, and I think all the skin is important, and any part of the body could be erogenous to me.
00:14:34:14 - 00:14:54:07
Chet
And so for me, that connection through physical touch and wanting to like to get to the place where you lose, where you end in somebody else's begins, you have to touch each other, right? Like you can't do that from across the room. You have to you.
00:14:54:11 - 00:15:03:09
Luna
Want to know there's some people that have touchless orgasms. But I'm like, for me, I just want to mush my body all over and feel all the parts and have more time.
00:15:03:12 - 00:15:12:07
Chet
For example, if I had to take one position, you know, to my deserted island for the rest of my life, it would be missionary like.
00:15:12:11 - 00:15:15:00
Luna
But don't make it pick.
00:15:15:02 - 00:15:35:00
Chet
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we don't have to pick so we don't have to pick. But the point being that the the amount of skin contact is, you know, is something that you could tell if somebody wants to engage in more skin contact or if they're moving away from more skin contact.
00:15:35:02 - 00:15:46:05
Luna
I can tell that, but I can't always tell if it's because they want to connect, but they're too afraid, or they're having a visceral yuck response. And that's when I have to use words to check in. Otherwise I end up chasing them around.
00:15:46:06 - 00:15:48:15
Chet
But words or words are good words.
00:15:48:15 - 00:15:50:22
Luna
For some people, they're good words.
00:15:51:00 - 00:15:55:16
Chet
Yeah, but well, we're it's good to communicate regardless.
00:15:55:18 - 00:16:18:00
Luna
Yeah. And finding finding the type of communication with each partner which I imagine you're a ninja at because of your training. So can you fill in the gaps for us between you had this first experience. When did you realize? I mean, it sounds like maybe you always felt connection was important, but what have you learned about it? You know, like fill in the gaps for us that feel important to you.
00:16:18:02 - 00:16:22:10
Luna
And I really want to know how you came to explore surrogacy work.
00:16:22:12 - 00:16:54:01
Chet
I from there, you know, have continued, I continue to be a sexually explorative person. And as somebody with very little shame, I am very, very lucky that I have figured out how to ask for what I want in a straightforward and direct manner from people, without them feeling skewed out by it, which many cis men ask for what they want in this creepiest, cringiest way possible.
00:16:54:03 - 00:17:24:14
Chet
And I've been fortunate that because I've learned how to communicate in certain ways, I've been fortunate that I can ask and say, hey, I would like this experience. Would you like that experience and present it in a way that makes you aware that, yes, and now are equally two thumbs up? And I basically go about my life in a way where it's like, I'm going to have a great time and either you could join me and we can have a great time, or I'm just going to continue to have a great time and it's all good for me.
00:17:24:14 - 00:17:31:03
Chet
So if you if you say no, that's not where I'm at right now. Great. You know I support that. Like thank you for telling me.
00:17:31:05 - 00:17:35:04
Luna
It's like I bring my own fun with me. Do you want to have some? No. That's cool. Okay.
00:17:35:06 - 00:17:36:01
Chet
Yeah, cool.
00:17:36:05 - 00:17:47:06
Luna
Also, for the record, I've exploded a lot of people with my overly direct questions. So I do wonder if sometimes there's simply like a confrontation in direct clarity that maybe ruffles there.
00:17:47:06 - 00:18:18:03
Chet
It also might be gendered. The assertive man is given a promotion, and the assertive woman is, you know, said to be the office bitch, right? Like that is the reality like the same action performed by somebody with a different gender presentation is interpreted differently. But I, continue to explore through college and in a way that was not built upon very much, jealousy or sense of ownership.
00:18:18:05 - 00:18:46:09
Chet
And so as a result, you know, I had a lot of fun explorations, whether it was like in a one on one setting or in group settings, people who weren't necessarily someone I was dating, and I were able to have a fulfilling and great sexual interaction without it having other implications that so much of, you know, so much of society likes to say like, oh, you hooked up.
00:18:46:11 - 00:19:06:13
Chet
Did they call you the next day? Like what? You know, like I was talking to someone on Monday who is looking for a certain pregnant therapist and they're like, yeah, I've always gone about thinking, like, every time before I hook up with someone like, oh, is this person the one? And then inevitably, like disappointed. And I was like, yeah, that sounds like a lot of pressure to put on the first time you're hooking up with somebody.
00:19:06:15 - 00:19:12:20
Chet
Yeah. Or on that person or on yourself. Even though I don't believe in the notion of the one either.
00:19:13:01 - 00:19:15:08
Luna
I believe in a lot of ones.
00:19:15:10 - 00:19:24:11
Chet
Yeah, I believe in lots of one, because the people that you love should be unique and irreplaceable. So they are still one and singular.
00:19:24:13 - 00:19:33:13
Luna
Everyone is. That's why fucking different people is so fun, because everyone is so different. They feel, I mean to experience that. I feel different energetic signatures.
00:19:33:15 - 00:19:34:01
Chet
It's like I.
00:19:34:01 - 00:19:36:05
Luna
Can explore different stuff with different bodies.
00:19:36:05 - 00:20:11:00
Chet
Different energies. It's a different dance. Yeah. Different ways. Bodies fit together. Different psychologies, different like prominent emotions, different play. Yeah. Different. Different flavors of fun and play. Different, different, proclivities towards like, different kinds of emotions, you know, like, it could be extraordinary, extraordinarily satisfying. Love making to make love to someone while they, like, cry and like, really like the least grief that they're carrying and pain that they're carrying.
00:20:11:02 - 00:20:37:06
Chet
And I'm also totally prone to, like somewhere in the middle of, like, my smooth, sexy, like very like romantic little playlist throwing in some, like, really bad old country from the 90s and singing all the words and just like, burst out laughing. That's a core part of how I work. Learning bad country is part of my what I consider part of my job, which is.
00:20:37:06 - 00:20:37:23
Luna
How do you.
00:20:38:04 - 00:21:02:13
Chet
You won't believe how much you can get someone out of their head and into their body when they're laughing their face off, because you just went from playing some soft and lovely ry I love. Right to like hitting them with like some Eric Church or some like Lone Star or something like that. And you're like, singing like old country and they're like or like, like not old country that, but like crappy country of yesteryear.
00:21:02:14 - 00:21:20:11
Luna
Like just a fully different tone. We I want to share one thing with you because I have stumbled into that dynamic, right, of like, here's the vibe. And then the song comes on is like, what? So pre all the sexy stuff I was doing, my main job was photography. Now I do a lot of like erotic photography, content creation and all of this.
00:21:20:13 - 00:21:36:13
Luna
So I would use the 60s playlist to shoot to and it's just my favorite go to like background chill. I mean, I love 60s music, I love all the things. And oh yeah, I started using it also for like fuck sessions. You know, like if I'm with a partner and like, they don't have a preference, but they want music, I'll put on this 60s playlist.
00:21:36:15 - 00:21:54:23
Luna
And sometime in the last year or two, they added Monster Mash and the like Doe a deer, a female deer song from Sound of Music. And so there was a moment where I was like, fucking a partner and I was on top, and the Monster Mash came on. And so I just started like doing the rhythm to it and we just, like, died laughing.
00:21:54:23 - 00:21:59:08
Luna
But it was also shot. Yeah. Oh. So it was a very simply.
00:21:59:10 - 00:22:05:07
Chet
The entire month of October leading up to Halloween. That sounds and repeat in my house.
00:22:05:09 - 00:22:06:02
Luna
So you do.
00:22:06:04 - 00:22:48:15
Chet
Boris and me are tight. Okay. Oh, yeah, that's great. But, Yeah. So just to finish off that story is, you know, continue to explore the started really like curating experiences where me and my ex of that was worth for like nine years. We were non-monogamous the whole time. And so we would like have some group explorations and but also I like curate different like experiences for friends with myself, without myself as part of it and with myself as part of it, especially things that like lend themselves towards intimacy and towards connection.
00:22:48:17 - 00:23:17:12
Chet
Like, oh, if you've ever, for example, made love to somebody that you've never seen or spoken to and you'd like make the rule that it's like, no talking. And so all of a sudden you're taking out your main, like higher order sensory items, your eyes and language, and you just have touch and smell, you know? And these are extremely primal forms of communication.
00:23:17:14 - 00:23:40:22
Chet
And I would like or, you know, create experiences. And then I like started hosting small play parties and, other explorations. And from there, people that I was hooking up with, you know, they would oftentimes call me years later and they'd say, hey, like, I need you to, like, talk to my partner or like, I'm I'm really struggling because I'm into this.
00:23:40:22 - 00:24:02:06
Chet
And they, like, can't wrap their head around it or like, hey, can you help me with that? And eventually my previous life was working in the hedge fund industry, and I was working at a fund in New York. I was hooked, and I was hooking up with somebody who's a sex therapist, and she was like, I wish you could work with my patients.
00:24:02:06 - 00:24:25:17
Chet
I wish you'd work with my patients. And I was like, oh, well, I can't do that. I'm not going to put myself in a situation with other people's trauma when I'm not qualified and equipped to do that, I'm not going to perpetuate harm. And she was like, yeah, I understand, but like, I really wish you would. And I also like really what was going on too, is I had gone to MIT and gotten a master's in analytical finance.
00:24:25:17 - 00:24:51:05
Chet
I was like, dead set down this path and I like thought I had to do that. Like I had expectations, familial expectations, expectations of myself, peers that like, you know, I would, you know, compare myself to obviously unfairly and to my own happiness detriment. But I had these notions and I was like, I got to have this career, you know?
00:24:51:10 - 00:25:22:21
Chet
So I didn't do much about it. But it turns out like that's for, you know, however many years and, continuing to be a resource and continuing to set up experiences, I'm continuing to be a regular host of events. I'm continuing to be involved in non-monogamous and sex positive community. So continuing to explore myself. And I'm continuing to build knowledge.
00:25:22:21 - 00:26:03:13
Chet
And before I know it, I'm hosting workshops. I am creating different larger scale events, and my partner and I, we run a, large Burning Man camp and would host an event around. I mean, we've hosted around the country and there'd be over a thousand people in attendance. So before I knew it, all of a sudden I'm talking to large groups of people and, you know, agitating and, you know, and it it was funny because I was like a workshop or sometimes teaches, basically principles of female pleasure.
00:26:03:15 - 00:26:20:16
Chet
And it's so funny because I started out with the disclaimer of, so I'm about to mansplain, FYI, you're all here. So you kind of you signed up for it, but I'm going to mansplain and I apologize in advance if I could do something about it, I would.
00:26:20:18 - 00:26:27:04
Luna
Nobody government blames me because I'm too busy interrupting them with questions. And I get I'll tell you're your own expert.
00:26:27:08 - 00:26:58:07
Chet
And so somebody who I was, I'm friends with who's a sex therapist, you know, after years and years of finding myself doing, you know, in this position, and despite telling myself I have to have this career, I'd like, find myself here. And I'm like, this is like who I am. I can't, like, hide from it. It's been a decade of me hiding and so, this sex therapist for mine introduced me to my mentor, Doctor Susan K, who is the original Masters and Johnson researcher from the Saint Louis lab.
00:26:58:08 - 00:27:20:07
Chet
She's, you know, been doing this since, I don't know, seven years. And she personally trained me. And that was just the beginning of a whole new adventure. So, fast forward, you know, a couple of years happened, and I've got a, you know, full time assistant that helps me with my work and trying to decide when to many clients is too many.
00:27:20:09 - 00:27:51:21
Chet
We're out here pushing and trying to create not just, knowledge for clients, but also knowledge for other people that this work exists. And especially because I know a large number of sex workers who find the connective aspects of their work to be the most meaningful and substantive, you know, educating more people that this is a line of work they can consider if they're willing to do the training and to do it properly and to do it at least in the ways that we do, which is within the triadic model.
00:27:51:23 - 00:28:09:05
Chet
And we're a very small community, the surrogate partner therapy community, depending on who you ask. I've spoke to two heads of the three major professional organizations in our space, and their estimates are like 80 to, 150 surrogates in the country.
00:28:09:07 - 00:28:10:03
Luna
Really?
00:28:10:05 - 00:28:36:17
Chet
Yeah. And I think the number is probably closer to 200. And when I asked them how many male surrogates do you think there are that follow the triadic model trying to like their numbers are like, I don't know, 15 to 25 male surrogates in the country? There are hundreds of millions of people in this country that need this work, and there are barely hundreds.
00:28:36:19 - 00:28:41:12
Chet
If there are hundreds, it might be 150 of us surrogates out here doing the work.
00:28:41:13 - 00:28:42:14
Luna
Yeah.
00:28:42:16 - 00:29:01:23
Chet
You know, we're all out here trying to promote the work and trying to make sure that people know that this resource exists because the the reality of it is you can talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk and talk all you want and therapy with your sex therapist. But sometimes that just is that.
00:29:01:23 - 00:29:20:15
Chet
And everyone, I'm sure a lot of people can relate to having a therapeutic relationship where they're just, like, end up in a cycle of talking, but not actually like growing, changing or doing anything about it. And of course, and that's especially hard when, you know, the therapist isn't there to be like, hey, you had this thought, now what behavior are you going to choose?
00:29:20:15 - 00:29:42:04
Chet
You know, if you're doing CBT and this therapist certainly is not sitting there, your sex therapist isn't sitting there. You know, on an armchair next to your bed being like, hey, it looks like you're thinking about a lot of things are, hey, you're sucking your stomach in and it looks like you're trying to have an orgasm, and maybe you should stop trying to suck your stomach in.
00:29:42:04 - 00:30:14:17
Chet
So it might be a little bit easier to have an audience. Yeah, like like, right. Like. Yeah, like. But what we do is we create experiential opportunities for growth. And so in the moment of being there, we can help really create rapid, meaningful change that takes people otherwise, you know, much longer and much more, you know, head banging to try to bring into their world.
00:30:14:18 - 00:30:33:01
Luna
Yeah. I mean, it's just completely different to have an actual experience with someone. And I've had partners in my personal life tell me some stuff that I'm like, okay, well then maybe you should be me. I don't know, they're just like, you healed me. You made me. This made me. And and then they disappear. You know, and so that's where I'm like, oh, God, you know that.
00:30:33:02 - 00:30:35:07
Luna
I love that you also had a partner that was. Yeah.
00:30:35:09 - 00:30:38:19
Chet
I think we yeah, we shared those experiences.
00:30:38:21 - 00:30:43:07
Luna
What are the most gratifying parts for you of this work?
00:30:43:09 - 00:31:13:16
Chet
Oh, everything. Yeah, everything. It's so cool. It's the most dynamic work you could possibly dream up. Is so diverse. It's so creative, you know? And I say experiential opportunities. That doesn't mean just in intercourse or just in touch exercises. It can be, hey, I've got a trans woman who is still working to figure out their style and learn how to do their makeup in a way that feels like fam, and I'm going to get a makeup artist, and I'm going to get a stylist, and maybe we're going to have a bourgeois photographer.
00:31:13:18 - 00:31:15:17
Luna
And that's like what I do with Photoshop.
00:31:15:19 - 00:31:40:07
Chet
Yeah, absolutely. Like to me, boudoir photographers are like one of my great allies in the work. And they are like, right. Like as at the top of the list of people that I'm always looking to connect with because I'm like, you help people heal and love their body more in a very material and direct way, and you leave them with a permanent reminder of that too, which is really cool too.
00:31:40:10 - 00:31:50:01
Luna
I like showing them how beautiful I see them, like like when I look at people and I'm like, nope. Yeah. And then they're like, no, I'm not. And then I'm like, look! And they're like irrefutable. True.
00:31:50:03 - 00:32:15:04
Chet
Yeah. And and I try to do the same with my interaction with them physically. But it's not a permanent picture that they can print out and put on their wall. Some of the most gratifying moments are when you see somebody who didn't think that they would ever have fun. I enjoy something like accidentally have fun, or accidentally enjoy or accidentally not, like experience the same problem that they had.
00:32:15:06 - 00:32:24:16
Chet
And the other, you know, super gratifying thing is, when you see the light bulb go off and they're like, oh, I didn't think of that. And things change like that.
00:32:24:18 - 00:32:36:13
Luna
In your introduction, you mentioned being straight ish and that you also it sounds like maybe work with sex workers, but maybe not just sex workers. Like, do you have a specialty in this work?
00:32:36:15 - 00:33:15:17
Chet
So I work with women, whether they are a fab or whether they're trans women, they are the people who I believe that I have an understanding of in a way that I can help them. I have some male clients that come to me for education around how to be a better lover. They've been heterosexual to date, and in those situations, I find a sex worker that they could work with, and I help demonstrate techniques, and then they can try and then we can go back and forth and I help them hone their abilities, to be a better lover.
00:33:15:17 - 00:33:45:04
Chet
But typically my clientele is women. And within that umbrella, I do have a special interest in working with sex workers, because I believe that they have less resources. They likely have more trauma. They inform the next generation of young people about sexuality. They teach them, whether directly or not. I think every sex workers a therapist. And so that's important, too.
00:33:45:06 - 00:34:20:13
Chet
But I work with people of all consent, of all ages, of all different types of situations. And the vast majority of my clientele are not sex workers. I've got clientele that are across the board as far as what their needs are, what they're looking to, the direction. So looking to grow, you know, what their work is. And so I'm in no way limited to just working with sex workers, but it is an area that I think over time I want to continue to specialize in and, and sort of like really work with.
00:34:20:15 - 00:34:21:21
Chet
Yeah.
00:34:21:23 - 00:34:33:18
Luna
When it comes to sex and this can be professionally, personally, you can answer however you want. What do you think you are the best at and how did you get to be so good?
00:34:33:20 - 00:34:38:19
Chet
I would love to make love to myself. Love. I would love to.
00:34:39:01 - 00:34:43:06
Luna
We do not make love to you still. Or do you mean like if a clone.
00:34:43:08 - 00:34:44:16
Chet
If I could clone myself.
00:34:44:16 - 00:34:47:08
Luna
I see I do have this fantasy.
00:34:47:10 - 00:35:00:12
Chet
You know, when you see those couples and you're like. You guys look way too similar. Especially like, I know so many gay couples like this where I'm like, you don't, you're a narcissist. You're just a narcissist. That's actually what's going on here.
00:35:00:14 - 00:35:07:07
Luna
It could be healthy narcissism. Maybe they're just like, gosh, I really appreciate that about you. And it really is grounded in goodness.
00:35:07:09 - 00:35:40:22
Chet
Yeah I totally could be. What do I like about the way that I experience intimacy. First thing is I love to play I love to be silly. I like I bring humor into the the room and at the same time I'm very connection focused and very and I can be very intense. So, you know, I like we're saying earlier about singing bad country music, I'm going to do that while we're I where while our eyes are locked, we are going to be in tune.
00:35:41:03 - 00:36:30:05
Chet
And then I'm going to be like, I wear my greasy ball cap, you know? You know, like I'm going to pull that out. And so I like to have a lot of fun. I'm open to crying, to laughter, to sadness, to joy, to all of it being part of the experience. Another thing I love about the way that I experience intimacy is that I do what I like to call the psyche bomb of life, and I like to have, really, really juxtapose soft touch and firm touch and slow and fast and deliberate and frantic and, really do so in a way that lets each of those changes provide a deeply refreshing, stimulating,
00:36:30:09 - 00:36:58:12
Chet
and arousing aspect to the time together such that it's still very connective, but I am very much like, you know, I want it all. That is another aspect to what I think I'm the best at. And last is just building intimacy. You could throw me in bed with a complete stranger who I've never talked to, never seen blindfolded with earplugs in, and by the end of it, it will be lovemaking.
00:36:58:14 - 00:37:10:08
Chet
And so that skill is one that is really important, because at least for me, it's what brings satisfaction and this real sense of human connection out of it.
00:37:10:10 - 00:37:29:19
Luna
I would love to hear your personal definition of lovemaking and like, do contrast that with sucking. And then maybe the layer of, like, have you had issues with clients and boundaries or how do you kind of set it up ahead of time to make sure that you have a clear container of boundaries so you can playfully and make that love?
00:37:29:21 - 00:37:32:12
Luna
Or is that only in personal relationships.
00:37:32:13 - 00:37:54:18
Chet
Intimacy, like slow and thoughtful and considerate intimacy is absolutely a thing. And any interaction I'd say, you know, in which that would be welcomed. But, you know, there's sex and there's intimacy, and those have different techniques. For example, right now I have a client who, their 40 year old version, quite literally, they just have been really career focused.
00:37:54:18 - 00:38:18:21
Chet
And then it got put off and put off and put off and working. Right now, actually, I'm creating, you know, a good curriculum where they learn sexual technique and they learn intimacy. And those are two separate things because they're like, you know, I don't want to just like have sex. I can obviously just do that, but I want to be good and I want to know how to build intimacy.
00:38:18:23 - 00:38:52:02
Chet
And so, you know, there are skill building activities that we're going to be doing around sexual technique, around how to build intimacy, but also around communication around some of those basic things. Well, I mean, there's communication and sex and there's communication and intimacy. So they both have that as a part of them. But those are two like almost separate curricula that like will be blending together.
00:38:52:04 - 00:39:06:08
Chet
But that they are really focused on having, you know, the ability to connect and have physical intimacy. So, you know, I would say that I don't like, have a great definition for what's fucking what's love making, but now.
00:39:06:08 - 00:39:08:15
Luna
It's due to personal definition. It's great. Yeah.
00:39:08:15 - 00:39:09:23
Chet
It's just my personal. Yeah.
00:39:10:01 - 00:39:32:20
Luna
And we're updating our definitions all the time. Right. You know, I think I recently had a potential lover be like, hey, I discovered that sex and intimacy are different today. And I was like, cool. Also, for me, there are always intertwined. And also I think because of all of the weird censorship on social media, now those two terms are conflated, so often used interchangeably.
00:39:32:20 - 00:39:56:00
Luna
And for me personally, it's confusing. So that's why I'm always like, well, it's your personal definition though, so there's only a few handfuls of you. And I say penis owning surrogate workers in the United States. And yet every time I am talking to my dude friends about any type of full service sex work, I hear, oh man, I wish, I wish I could do that.
00:39:56:00 - 00:40:26:09
Luna
I wish that I could, and I'm like, well, there's nothing stopping you from getting trained. But I wonder if maybe my friends who I am talking to, have a different idea about what the work actually is. So could you speak a little bit to like if someone out there is listening and is like, oh, a professional slut, like, help us understand specifically what a surrogate is and like how people might find you in the world or find one of you in their local area that's trusted.
00:40:26:09 - 00:40:29:03
Luna
That's true. You know, in those in those safe ways.
00:40:29:05 - 00:40:34:09
Chet
So the difference when you're like, you're a professional slut.
00:40:34:11 - 00:40:37:07
Luna
I love professional sluts just to say that I do love them.
00:40:37:13 - 00:40:53:11
Chet
I do love professional sluts. So the thing that your guy friends are probably imagining, oh, having a bunch of sex that is super pleasurable for them, and really, what the work entails is very little of that.
00:40:53:14 - 00:40:58:00
Luna
Okay, so my friend who was like, I want to be a dial a dick, that's not really happening.
00:40:58:02 - 00:41:02:06
Chet
I mean, he could be a dial a dick. He just couldn't be a surrogate.
00:41:02:08 - 00:41:03:09
Luna
Got it. Okay.
00:41:03:11 - 00:41:17:20
Chet
And I support dial a Dick. I, you know, I've been called Edible Arrangements cock plenty of times. So if you send me to, like people that you like, not to like people that you don't like, that you need to send a gift. Oh.
00:41:17:22 - 00:41:22:09
Luna
Wait, is that what Edible Arrangements really are? Is that the social norm behind it, or is that a joke? That's a.
00:41:22:09 - 00:41:26:17
Chet
Joke. Yeah. There's like a slight amount of shade to some edible or I really.
00:41:26:18 - 00:41:32:22
Luna
I, I used to love the pineapples covered with chocolate. So you're not a I mean, you're not a dialectic in that way.
00:41:33:04 - 00:41:57:15
Chet
No, not not in any way. Like it is exceedingly rare that that's what a client really needs. The kind of clients that we see, as serial partners, is incredibly diverse. What their needs are incredibly diverse. And the kinds of work that we end up doing with them as a result of that. It's very creative and but it's very diverse.
00:41:57:15 - 00:42:44:14
Chet
And so, the first thing that separates, you know, your male friends fantasy, of what a job like this might look like from the reality is, the first thing is we work within the triadic model. So I only work with a licensed sex therapist as part of the team, as part of the therapeutic team. And the reason why that's so important is that, first off, if if I were to do something which there are I mean, there's incredible I mean, you could write libraries with the number of stories you hear about people who are supposed to be sexual healers or something like that, or spiritual gurus, and who take advantage of the power imbalance
00:42:44:14 - 00:43:28:19
Chet
and sexually abuse other people. The way that we work with the licensed sex therapist is part of the care team. There is a mandatory reporter here. If if I were to pull some funny business, you know, the police would get called. So that's one thing. The second thing is that the work that we do, what connects it all, is that almost every client has shame as part of what they need to destroy and work through, but the ways that they need to do that very, extremely for some people, you know, if you're sometimes you might have a client who is a trans woman who's trying to figure out as they transition what their look wants
00:43:28:19 - 00:43:49:04
Chet
to be or are in their makeup. And, you know, we'll find a stylist and we'll find a makeup artist, we'll find our photographer, like I said earlier. But, you know, I've got clients who are quadriplegic and wheelchair bound. And, you know, we're working on touch things and we're working on personal things about clients who, you know, they're out of a divorce.
00:43:49:04 - 00:44:11:02
Chet
They've been married for 20 years, and they're about to reenter the dating pool. But in 20, they're not the same person that they were when they were in their 20s or 30s. And now they're looking at their body and they're their bodies changed and they're now going out into the dating world. They're like, oh, but now I've got lockjaw and I've got this problem and that problem and and all they're seeing is problems.
00:44:11:04 - 00:44:37:14
Chet
We've got clients who I mean, body image issues are, you know, pretty much all over the place, of course. And oftentimes, you know what, like, one of the most common exercises we do is, you know, we'll sit in front of a mirror and we'll go down and have the client spend 30 minutes detailing their thought on every part of their body as they slowly go down and look and kind of give their stream of consciousness of it.
00:44:37:16 - 00:44:54:06
Chet
And usually what people will find is that they like a lot more of their body than they thought. It's just that they only focused on the quote unquote problems. And so they are always looking at how they don't like x, y, z part of their body. But for every x, y, z part, there's like ten other things that they do.
00:44:54:06 - 00:45:03:22
Chet
Like they just don't even think about it and have no gratitude for it as a result. And so, your male friend who's like, oh yeah, this sounds like a job I would love to have.
00:45:04:00 - 00:45:08:17
Luna
It wasn't just one. I've heard it from multiple unconnected.
00:45:08:19 - 00:45:13:19
Chet
I've got friends who they're like, yeah, my guy friends want to be like you. And I'm like, okay, well, I mean, they can.
00:45:13:22 - 00:45:15:00
Luna
Go do the training.
00:45:15:02 - 00:45:31:11
Chet
And the work certainly is not about your pleasure. Even if you do end up in a situation where intimate touch is needed, it's about the work and bringing your shadow motives into the scenario is totally counter to the work.
00:45:31:13 - 00:45:47:07
Luna
I have a hard time understanding that because for me, work is so pleasure ful and in any partnered connection, what I know is my pleasure is a big part of their pleasure. Like I have been in so many situations where people are like, I need you to be having a good time for me to build confidence, you know?
00:45:47:09 - 00:45:50:19
Luna
And and those are just tingly words to me.
00:45:50:21 - 00:45:57:18
Chet
I'm with you there. It's not that. It's not that you don't experience pleasure or can't experience pleasure.
00:45:57:20 - 00:46:00:12
Luna
But it's in service.
00:46:00:14 - 00:46:13:20
Chet
Exactly. But the idea that you're in this scenario and you're in this situation for your pleasure is still counter to the real reason you're in the situation you're in. You're in this situation, the.
00:46:13:22 - 00:46:16:22
Luna
Pleasure as it comes up. Or does it mean, no, it does not.
00:46:16:22 - 00:46:22:04
Chet
It does not. But it does mean that like you're prioritizing the work.
00:46:22:06 - 00:46:39:09
Luna
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I think in my life that always goes without saying. I am a service submissive at heart. And everything I do prioritizes the work. And I have now learned that all of my pre sexy work, you know, where as a photographer, when I'm a director, when I'm a producer, like that's all just holding space as a top.
00:46:39:09 - 00:46:54:20
Luna
And so I've now learned to use my sexual submissiveness always in service. And so I, I'm mincing words here, but it's because I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. And I, you know, I think pleasure is healing for all of us.
00:46:54:22 - 00:47:18:13
Chet
Well, first off, you're a beautiful soul, and I love that you recognize that about yourself and can use that knowledge, you know, in the ways that you do work with people nowadays. Yeah. But like, you know, I encourage your, your guy friends to go out there and if they really, really care about doing work like this to go get trained and learn.
00:47:18:15 - 00:47:23:08
Chet
But the work is not about their pleasure. The work is about the work.
00:47:23:10 - 00:47:31:02
Luna
I told them to start off by trying volunteer work where they're just holding space for their lovers, and if they like that, then maybe consider a professional career.
00:47:31:04 - 00:47:52:20
Chet
I encourage your guy friends out there to go pursue that. And what I could tell you that doctor K, my mentor, would ask them. The first question she'll ask them probably is very simply, and I know that she'd be two thumbs up about me saying this and sharing this is she'll say, well, do you have that thing I can't teach you?
00:47:52:22 - 00:48:19:22
Chet
That is the first thing she's going to say. And what she's really trying to talk about is when you're in intimate situations, when you're in situations where you're giving care through touch, are you able to be very slow and intentional and fully present in your touch? The quality of touch is fully 100% a function of how present you are in that touch.
00:48:20:02 - 00:48:21:11
Luna
With your other person.
00:48:21:13 - 00:48:37:02
Chet
With the other person, or with yourself. And you know, I've. I had a client who, when I said, oh, of course, you know, there's an arch touching and they're like, what do you mean? And I was like, well, there's an arch touching. And I was like, okay. And I like kind of ran my fingers on their back.
00:48:37:02 - 00:48:58:23
Chet
I was like, okay, this is one way of touching. And I was like, here's another way of going the exact same route. And one was just slower, a lot more present, a lot more like intentional and deliberate. And she was like, oh. And then I like said, okay, now run your fingers on my back. And the way she touched changed instantly.
00:48:59:01 - 00:49:15:06
Luna
It's so funny because when I talk to Neurotypicals, they can't always put it into words like I. So I give my sister tickles. This is not a sexual thing, but our whole life long like these light touches up and down arms called tickles. And I'll do it with my nails or my fingertips. And I am known for delivering this.
00:49:15:06 - 00:49:31:21
Luna
I love to touch people. And so my sister, when we're around, we'll be like, out somewhere. She'll just put her arm out and I know what it means, you know? And a few weeks ago, she was like, why are you so good at this? And I was like, it feels good to me, too. That's what I'm feeling for, like, I'm feeling and I'm feeling for this like moment.
00:49:31:21 - 00:49:48:13
Luna
And I'm not a person. Like when at anytime someone is like, oh, you're so intuitive. You're an empath. I'm like, no, I'm not. I'm a pattern machine. And everything for me is so practical. But it looks like art, right? I look like the most whimsical creature, but I'm actually extremely practical, and I just want that to be recognized for people.
00:49:48:15 - 00:50:13:05
Chet
On my mail. Sex education client who is autistic is like, can somebody actually learn this who's autistic? And I and I point to a friend of mine who's a content creator and full service provider, who's very autistic and is like, I had to learn and I recognized the patterns and now know when to stop and say the things that neurotypical people need to hear.
00:50:13:06 - 00:50:34:00
Chet
Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I do. But I do have a question for you then. Yeah. Speaking of your articles, do you ever keep different textures on your fingers so that you're able to deliver different kinds of touch, like for example, sometimes if I have like a rough nail that like maybe like when I cut it and like didn't cut all the way and I just ripped it off.
00:50:34:02 - 00:51:00:12
Chet
And so then I'll have like a little rough edge and then I'll be like, you know what? I'll keep that. Or like have like a little area where I had like some dry skin and I'll just keep it so I can give it just a different kind of touch. So when I'm touching someone, it's like, oh, here's this is more scratchy and this is more smooth and like, oh, here's a little bit of a little edge, you know, and like, I can deliver a wide variety of touch through the same to my fingers.
00:51:00:16 - 00:51:21:23
Luna
Yes. And what you can't see is that almost all the time and I didn't learn this is probably stemming, but like, this is almost always what I'm doing. I'm almost always and like I had like a whatever. I haven't actually talked to that much out loud explicitly about being autistic. I've just kind of like referred to it self-diagnosed, but like, I've been feeling my cuticles my whole life.
00:51:22:03 - 00:51:22:16
Luna
My whole.
00:51:22:17 - 00:51:26:00
Chet
I literally while you were saying that I was doing this already.
00:51:26:00 - 00:51:50:06
Luna
Thank you for your time. Yeah, yeah. And so that exact thing, you know, when I was little, I would like pick at Hangnails, I pick my lips. And my brother was like, stop, don't do that. That's bloody, that's gross, you know, and I adjusted, but now I pick them just lightly enough. Again, it's important to me to not have open wounds on my, cuticles because I do like to fingers and bitches and like, put my fingers up, but also sometimes without gloves, depending on where I am, you know?
00:51:50:06 - 00:52:09:07
Luna
And so I do make an effort to keep cuticles nice. But yes, sensation play of all good. Also, I went to this expo in January and sports sheets showed me they have these gloves that are very soft and then they have little spiky things in them. And so that's more for other person sensation. I mean, I still get so much joy out of like giving sensations anyway.
00:52:09:07 - 00:52:14:23
Luna
But like if for me skin on skin is the best. Like when someone's like, will you, you know, do you? What do.
00:52:15:03 - 00:52:17:00
Chet
You mean? Skin on skin.
00:52:17:02 - 00:52:33:14
Luna
Any skin on skin like. Like if I have the choice between a tool or an implement and a toy, if someone's doing it on me. I want your hands, I want hands, but if someone wants to use implements on me, I love all the sensations. But like, that's why I don't want be in charge. Because I'm like, I want everything.
00:52:33:14 - 00:52:35:00
Luna
I just don't have to pick it.
00:52:35:02 - 00:52:57:06
Chet
When you were saying earlier about, you know what? What are you good at? And I say like primal, like I am much more organic and primal variant. I don't identify as kinky, actually, even if most people would probably say that just because there's so many different things that people think when you say that. And I'm like the leather side of the kink world is like, not what I'm talking about.
00:52:57:06 - 00:53:18:20
Chet
I'm like, if someone's going to be restrained, I want to use my hands. Oh, wait, I want to like, use my weight and like, you know, like really. And I grew up, I grew up playing hockey and wrestling. So especially from wrestling, like, I want to use my weight. I want to use my body if I'm going to, like, really try to convey like dominance.
00:53:18:20 - 00:53:31:04
Chet
I want to do it by like having you so that you know that you can't escape like you have and like have your jaw and like, you know, give you like, like give you that, like, press that said, yeah, I got you.
00:53:31:09 - 00:53:39:22
Luna
Yeah. It's very animalistic, I love that. Yeah. I did water polo in high school. So I'm like, let me wrap my legs around people. You know.
00:53:40:00 - 00:53:46:01
Chet
And I'm like, yeah. And like when I come I growl, you know, like, I want to be an animal.
00:53:46:03 - 00:53:52:15
Luna
So do you even growl when you are with clients or is that not? It's a different scenario. Depends. Depends. Okay.
00:53:52:17 - 00:54:22:00
Chet
It depends. It depends. I mean, I know really well how to turn off and turn on different parts of my sexuality depending on the situation. So for example, I in my personal life, I think squirting is super hot. I think it is really beautiful and really to me like represents a lot of that rebellion and was talking about because for, you know, at least in Western scientific thought, like women didn't experience pleasure literally as a concept into like 100 years ago.
00:54:22:01 - 00:54:47:17
Chet
So I think that female ejaculation beautifully like, steals that back from the patriarchy and reopens the concept of female pleasure. And so, along with the fact that obviously she's parts are tied to emotional orgasms. And I especially for people who have, trauma stored in their which is usually stored in your pelvic muscles, it's all oftentimes such an important emotional release that can be associated.
00:54:47:19 - 00:55:09:21
Chet
As a result, I have to draw the lines in my mind and, you know, speaking to your guy friends, who would want to do work like this? Draw the lines in my mind where, for example, when I'm hosting a squirting workshop and I've got literally, you know, over a thousand people watching, I have hundreds of people cheering.
00:55:09:21 - 00:55:29:22
Chet
And, you know, there's somebody learning for the first time in front of all of those people with their legs spread. You know, I wear either two pairs of underwear, I wear really tight pants and like, like jeans. And I turn off that part of my brain that, like, in my normal life, would be like, this is hot. Like, squirting is hot.
00:55:30:01 - 00:55:46:20
Chet
And I am fully just there to do what I need to do to teach people and keep them enthusiastic and help people feel safe. And so being able to turn off and on different parts of your sexuality is an important part of the work as well.
00:55:46:22 - 00:56:11:08
Luna
Okay, I'm not sure I follow that train of thought because in my mind, I mean, I know, I guess I know it's normal in our current country the way things are where I live at least. But like sex and work are separate. I'm hearing that maybe someone seeing an erection would make them feel unsafe or uncomfortable, but don't you think the perfect world would be where we can actually like, be our full human selves and just have good enough boundaries?
00:56:11:08 - 00:56:14:00
Luna
But like, it's actually okay if there is an erection or something.
00:56:14:00 - 00:56:17:03
Chet
Like, I hear your point and it's a.
00:56:17:03 - 00:56:18:18
Luna
New it's the fresh noodle.
00:56:18:18 - 00:56:43:01
Chet
I it it is a fresh noodle, but I have every single time I have hosted that event with my partner, I hold up a big hammer. Okay, big hammer like a sledge. And I am like, obviously if you pull out a phone, even if you're checking the weather, I'm just it. But also if you're not touching yourself and I have I probably station 30 plus people.
00:56:43:01 - 00:56:46:12
Luna
Yeah. Well that's a boundary. That's a clear boundary.
00:56:46:14 - 00:57:08:04
Chet
If you're caught doing that, then you're going to be I'm going to end the event and I'm going to literally escort you out of there shaming you the whole way. Like, that's what I that's what I threaten people with. And then when I explain it, what I, what I point out is you are making this event about you and your pleasure and you are being turned on.
00:57:08:06 - 00:57:36:13
Chet
It is not about you and your being turned on. It's about the people who are coming up here and being brave and owning their body in such a brash, incredibly over-the-top, just absolutely courageous way. And so when people, you know, turn it into something, focus on their pleasure and their sexual sensibilities, then they take from the person who's come up there and is doing the vulnerable.
00:57:36:15 - 00:57:54:06
Luna
Sure, sure. Yeah. But that's different from just like playing with a hard on is different. I don't have a penis. Right. So I don't know. I'm not an expert here. And this is why we have to talk to each other. But I'm just like, in my perfect utopian estate because that's all I could probably control, I think. Well, I also hear from a lot of nudists.
00:57:54:06 - 00:58:12:05
Luna
That's like the hard ons end up not happening because everything gets so normalized, which is, I'm sure, very different from, workshop that's focused on sexual skill building or whatever specific topic it is. It also surprises me every time to learn that the people who go up there to demonstrate are shy, because I'm like, I would do it.
00:58:12:05 - 00:58:17:13
Luna
I am not that kind of shy, but I know that I have a really different experience in this world.
00:58:17:15 - 00:58:57:16
Chet
I mean, we have people come up who are who are not that shy. We have people come up who are and they have something to work through. Hey, I was sexually assaulted and somebody who tried to take ownership of my body and in that way, and I am doing this absolutely brash thing, this absolutely. I mean, absurd, like, truly from a standpoint of if you asked a thousand men who would stand up and try to do something that they like have never done before in front of a crowd of hundreds of people cheering whether or not they would try that, you know, even if I asked them, would you try to do a handstand?
00:58:57:18 - 00:59:03:21
Chet
You've never done a handstand, try to do a handstand. With all these people watching and cheering, the vast majority of them would be like, Now I'm good, don't.
00:59:03:21 - 00:59:15:19
Luna
Worry about it. Oh yeah. I mean, it's hard enough to get people to share any fantasy ideas, even just a regular brainstorm. Non-sexual because people because we live in such a judgment culture. But that's why I'm like, we have the opportunity to change it.
00:59:15:21 - 00:59:41:09
Chet
So when people come up and they, you know, come up to our event, they're like, oh, you know, I, I was assaulted and I want to claim my body back. And guess what? The number one way to claim your body back is to show that you own that body. And so it's like kind of like, hey, if I got out of jail, one of the first things that I might consider doing is skydiving, because I can do that because it's my fucking body and I'm free now, right?
00:59:41:11 - 01:00:01:18
Chet
It's not a sexy event. It's like watching people give birth. It's a very healing event. Everyone who watches it cries together. The one time I actually stepped out from hosted it and I was like, well, you guys got this for like one person and I like, sat down and I like just watched from the audience for the first time ever.
01:00:01:19 - 01:00:19:02
Chet
I instantly just started crying. I was like, I didn't know why, but I'm crying. I'm looking left, right, and like, I'd host the event, you know, however many dozen times. So I like I knew everyone's crying, but I'm like looking and I'm like, oh shit, I'm crying and I don't know why everyone else is crying to, you know.
01:00:19:04 - 01:00:31:23
Luna
Well, I would love to hear from you. On that note, what do you think we collectively the world need to make our societies sexier, more loving places?
01:00:32:01 - 01:00:59:22
Chet
I think that we need to embrace difference. There are people who feel a lot of fear when they see things that are different than themselves. And, you know, you see that in a million different ways, not just sexually. You know, obviously, you know, you see people who live with a lot of fear. And that fear is because they fear things that are different than them.
01:01:00:00 - 01:01:17:01
Chet
And if we can find a world that is more empathetic, then we can empower more people to say, I'm stepping into my sexy. So what? I'm not a magazine. I'm not like what you expect on the cover of a magazine also.
01:01:17:01 - 01:01:19:13
Luna
So what if they are just as a person who grew.
01:01:19:13 - 01:01:20:18
Chet
Up so people be like.
01:01:20:20 - 01:01:43:13
Luna
Stupid, blond haired, blue eyed people who are skinny and I'm like, oh, you're right, I'm terrible. I'm going to go die now. And I and the thing that I've had to spend the last like I. Yeah. So it's like, no matter what we look like, I think we all deserve to feel sexy. And I love, like, I love spreading the message that like, differences are hot and all can be appreciated.
01:01:43:15 - 01:02:35:06
Chet
Yeah. And differences are hot. And, you know, in fact, my human sexuality professor, used to always say the only true aphrodisiac is variety. And so I think if we could live in a world I once heard somebody, I recently heard somebody say that they have their they would describe their politics as empathetic. They're into empathetic politics. If we could have a more empathetic perspective to difference instead of fear based reactions, that we could have a world where more people feel comfortable stepping into their sexy because what makes somebody sexy and what makes somebody feel turned on has a lot to do with whether or not they just feel sexy about themselves, not about other
01:02:35:06 - 01:03:03:00
Chet
people. And when we live in a world where people's differences are embraced, more and more people could step into their sex. A more people can receive their joy from other people's joy, more people can experience conversion, and we can live in a world where people are excited about other people's sex. People are excited about other people's differences. People are excited to celebrate other people's joy and pleasure.
01:03:03:02 - 01:03:11:09
Chet
You know, I know, I know people who, when they hear about other people having really great sex, they get mad. They're like, oh, I wish I was there or something like that. And it's like.
01:03:11:11 - 01:03:13:09
Luna
It's like evidence that you can get there.
01:03:13:13 - 01:03:16:14
Chet
Yeah. And why don't you just be excited that that person had that experience?
01:03:16:15 - 01:03:31:00
Luna
Yeah. I am a afraid that I like to say it was one of my best friends. We say, well, where there's one, there's more. So instead of being like, jealous or envy or whatever you want to call it, which is like, an example that it's possible. Okay. And then, you know, focusing on myself, what I can actually control.
01:03:31:02 - 01:03:54:07
Luna
And I think, you know, I, I definitely know some people who can get focused on the negative and where your attention goes. That is what grows. Right. And so and neuroscience actually is coming out to like support all the things behind beliefs. And, you know, what we believe is actually a huge part of our physiological experience too. So I told you, and you're doing that work, you're literally a reflector to people of their sexy parts, creating these safe containers.
01:03:54:07 - 01:03:56:17
Luna
And it sounds like in so many different ways.
01:03:56:18 - 01:04:39:18
Chet
I have habitually, immediately been able to tell where somebody has some insecurity about parts of their body. And I have without without like thinking about it consciously. Although I realized consciously at some point that I was doing this, always been like naturally giving extra love to that part of their body, but not in a way that just draws attention to it, because that oftentimes makes people uncomfortable, but rather that, like, if you're going to draw attention to it, that you do so in a very specific and thoughtful way that let someone know that you're sincere, you know, it's not just like, oh, you don't like your hips.
01:04:39:20 - 01:05:15:13
Chet
And I'm telling you, your hips are sexy. It's like, oh, I really like the way that like your hips interface in your leg. And then you have this, like, kind of very beautiful crease that, like, brings my eyes to here or I really like this like little thing. And I oftentimes say, to people who are looking for advice about how to be a better lover, is that if you can stop, slow down, and just try to appreciate every single bit of what makes the person that you're interfacing with, like, what makes them them even?
01:05:15:15 - 01:05:44:09
Chet
I mean, I'm referring to in a physical sense, but also in an emotional personality sense. But if you can stop and you can look and appreciate every dimple and every wrinkle and every curve, if you can do that and just like, be really slow about it and just really take that in and just fully drink them up. If you can do that, you will have done something for them that they will have never done for themselves.
01:05:44:11 - 01:05:52:03
Luna
Yeah, I would say we can't do it for ourselves. That's the type of witnessing that only intimate partners can offer us in those very specific ways.
01:05:52:05 - 01:05:58:19
Chet
And I tend to agree with you, but I can see a version where I could see a version of the world where someone pushes back on it.
01:05:58:21 - 01:06:27:20
Luna
I mean, that's fair. And it might be it might be a word difference issue. I just know that for myself, a personal experience is always so much different from one that's mixed with other person's energies. And so I know that no matter what, when I'm with someone else, it's a completely different experience. And I've you know, to your point, I feel like one of the things I'm proudest of in my own growth in past couple of years is that I've learned how to kind of like, shut up and be like, can I touch your belly?
01:06:27:20 - 01:06:50:13
Luna
I love I love it, you know, because that if someone is self-conscious about that, they don't want to hear that at all, even if I'm saying a positive thing. But I've learned that I can trace down their breasts, find the belly button, give some kisses. Just I just show. I just show them the appreciation. And that physical experience shifts the focus from how do I look to how do I feel?
01:06:50:16 - 01:07:00:18
Luna
And that's what I think is so beautiful about the work that you're doing. That was a huge gift that I had from a lover that changed the course of my entire life. I was like, oh.
01:07:00:20 - 01:07:20:02
Chet
If you can get people out of their mind and into their body for the most part, most people when you do that are going to have a much better experience. It's just. And that's why fun is essential, because when you're having fun, you're not watching the clock. You're not watching yourself from above and taking a third party perspective.
01:07:20:02 - 01:07:26:16
Chet
You're not judging yourself. You don't realize how much time is flying, right? Because you're not watching. You're not watching the for that.
01:07:26:16 - 01:07:27:07
Luna
I think you.
01:07:27:07 - 01:07:57:20
Chet
Are just you're just getting lost is fully present. And so that is why I learned shitty country songs. And that is why. Because when I can get somebody just giggling and laughing and like in that place, when I can do that, then they lose their self consciousness, they lose their anxieties, they lose all of these things where, you know, one day they're like, they never want to be seen naked by a man.
01:07:57:22 - 01:08:21:11
Chet
And then the next day they're standing there naked and laughing their ass off, you know, and it's because they're not thinking about that. They're just being and, you know, the truth of the matter. And I learned this, really, truly from my high school physics teacher as I watched him through the process of dying. Everything in life is easier when you're having fun doing it.
01:08:21:12 - 01:08:46:11
Chet
Everything. And even if it's a shitty thing, that really sucks, if you could find a little bit of fun in it, it will make it so much better. I tell clients all the time. I said, if you think that like it would be insulting to like be laughing and having fun while in a situation of like personal vulnerability and intimacy that I might not be the provider to work with you.
01:08:46:13 - 01:09:16:19
Chet
But if you're somebody who can recognize that, sex doesn't have to just be a destination, and it could be a journey, that it can have a lot of different elements to it, and that that dance can look different, with different people and different ways, different situations. And I am the right provider for you. If you're somebody who can see that sun is an important aspect of it and can recognize, actually it's truly the easiest way to say it is if you realize that sex is how adults fly.
01:09:17:01 - 01:09:18:11
Chet
I can work with you.
01:09:18:12 - 01:09:22:07
Luna
Fuck yeah. Jet, thank you so much for being a guest on X stories.
01:09:22:09 - 01:09:25:01
Chet
Thank you so much. This was such a delightful interview.
Comments