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38 white Jewish slutty queer leatherdyke, she/her pronouns, switch, partnered 12 years, tattoo artist, International Ms Bootblack 2011.

🔗 KD LINKS | @kddiamond / commonground studio / katiediamond.com

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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:22:23

Luna

And our guest today is a late 30s Jewish queer who's been in a 12 year long relationship and enjoys being a slutty leather dike. She loves hot tubs. Oh me too. Community building and leather worship. A tattoo artist originally from South Florida and New York City who currently lives in Los Angeles. Welcome, Katie. Diamond. Hi. I am so excited to have you here.

00:00:23:00 - 00:00:34:11

Luna

Can you please start off by writing yourself on a sexual shame meter? If ten is the highest and 1 or 0 is, like, no way. Where do you fall today? Shame a meter wise. And why?

00:00:34:13 - 00:00:38:09

kd

I mean, I think it may change depending on this scenario.

00:00:38:09 - 00:00:38:19

Luna

But I get.

00:00:38:19 - 00:00:58:06

kd

Squirrely. Yeah, I can get squiggly, but for the most part, I think I kind of operate on like a 2 or 3, like I don't I'm not really concerned about what other people think. I feel like that's where shame kind of comes from. Is our concern about people's perception about us. I had to let that go forever ago.

00:00:58:06 - 00:01:01:22

kd

I can't think about that. It's too much that takes up too much space in my mind.

00:01:01:23 - 00:01:12:20

Luna

So I feel that. When do you notice it squiggle up or down? As much as we don't want it to. Mine still gets squiggly sometimes. But what about you?

00:01:12:22 - 00:01:34:16

kd

You know, I think that it feels related to how connected I feel to the people in the room. In a shocking turn of events, I feel like the more vulnerable I feel, the more of a chance of feeling shame or embarrassment might occur in a scene at a sex party someplace where maybe on the bus, you know what I mean?

00:01:34:16 - 00:01:43:12

kd

Like if I'm surrounded by people that I really care about, then obviously they're there. Concept of me is more important than like a stranger that I encounter. You know?

00:01:43:14 - 00:01:55:18

Luna

Whoa, that makes a lot of sense. And I don't know, I'm going to have to noodle if I'm the same. I mean, I've been asking this question for years also, but I am rediscovering myself every day. When do you feel the least shame?

00:01:55:19 - 00:02:13:08

kd

Honestly, when I'm surrounded by a bunch of, like, very horny homosexuals who are all like on the same page, and maybe everyone's like a little, little naked little, little dirty little sweaty, you little gross. Totally. Yeah. When we all have the same, like, I like to call it, like threshold syndrome, when we've all, like, entered the room knowing what we're engaging in.

00:02:13:08 - 00:02:32:03

kd

Like, that's a totally different situation. The shame can go out the window. Absolutely. Not to, like, immediately bring it here within like the first few minutes, but like, have you read Brené Brown? Like, have you read Daring Greatly? Yeah. Like you really mean like the connection of, like, vulnerability and shame and courage. Like they're all like one big, like, mushy loop.

00:02:32:03 - 00:02:47:15

Luna

So totally, totally. Someone recently told me that I was Brené Brown, mixed with Esther Perel and a dash of Nina Hartley, and I was like, okay, okay, I guess I don't really have the degree of accomplishment. I know I was just.

00:02:47:15 - 00:02:48:18

kd

Thinking, what a compliment.

00:02:48:19 - 00:03:05:19

Luna

Also. Yeah, maybe I should go study shame, I guess I am. I totally relate and also I'm like, when I get to the naked parts with whoever I'm doing naked things with, you know, whether it's erotic photo and video and I'm just a photographer or whether we're playing together, I feel like that's when I'm like, I'm here. Nothing can bother me now, you know?

00:03:05:19 - 00:03:24:03

Luna

It's usually a closed space, etc. there's a sense of permission and it's in those unknown moments or the sort of like, oh shit, did I do something wrong to like, bother someone I care about is kind of when it comes up for me or yeah, lately it's been like fear stuff too. So tell us, how did you learn about sex, connection and pleasure?

00:03:24:03 - 00:03:28:18

Luna

What was your personal path to being the lesser type that you are?

00:03:28:19 - 00:03:30:10

kd

We're going to get weird. Are you ready to get weird?

00:03:30:12 - 00:03:32:01

Luna

So ready? Yes.

00:03:32:03 - 00:03:55:02

kd

So when I was a youth, you know, I'm an artist. I've been drawing forever. I became obsessed with drawing. Do you remember Jughead from the Archie comics? Yes. I became obsessed with drawing him, eating a lot of burgers and his belly getting really big. And I now know in retrospect that, like, there was some part of me that, like, was horny for his big belly.

00:03:55:04 - 00:04:07:00

kd

And then the next phase, and I've heard other people have had like sexual experiences, like revelations from this. But there's also the animated film E.B. White's Charlotte's Web.

00:04:07:01 - 00:04:12:12

Luna

Oh, yes, I watched it. Templeton. Earth? Yeah, I tried to tell someone about that song recently in.

00:04:12:13 - 00:04:40:08

kd

The Templeton Fair scene. Yeah, his belly gets really big. It's really big and starts to, like, sway around and be so soft and gooey. And as a child, I would rewind and watch that scene over and over and over again. Because something about it was it. There was something. It was hitting a nerve. It was hitting a nerve that I now understand is connected to some sort of like, I could probably talk about it in therapy forever, like, do you mean like there's something about the, like squishy, gooey, touchy, like, you know, like it's not about the food necessarily.

00:04:40:08 - 00:05:06:03

kd

It's about the concept of like something that's like swollen and like engorged, you mean. But at the time, I was just like, wow. Templeton, rewind while Templeton. Rewind. Do you know what I mean? And so I would argue that that might be the earliest, like, most nascent like before I understood what was going on. I knew that drawing those pictures and watching Templeton sweat out with his big belly like it was horny.

00:05:06:03 - 00:05:24:11

kd

I was a I was maybe like seven, eight, nine, but like, it was horny. Something about it. Now I know it was. And I've heard other people talk about it. So I had this moment where I'm like, we should start like a, like a subreddit or something about people who discover it as a child that they were horny.

00:05:24:11 - 00:05:45:09

kd

Not for Templeton, but the concept of that. Yeah. It's like an abstraction to, you know what I mean? That which, you know, eventually became more than that to any mean. But the very first, first, first, I think, really is related to those things, which also I've always been somebody who's much more turned on by, like, illustrated porn than anything else.

00:05:45:10 - 00:05:49:16

kd

You know what I mean? Like, I much prefer, like, comic books and really sexy images that people drew.

00:05:49:19 - 00:06:09:16

Luna

Yeah. Oh, that's so interesting. I mean, that was always my favorite scene and song. And there was something about, like, the sneaking into the fair, the having whatever you want and the just, like, being so happy. And yeah, I think the cartoony ness of showing the emphasis of whatever, whatever parts we want to, you know, you can do anything in a cartoon, which is pretty fun about it.

00:06:09:18 - 00:06:15:17

Luna

So how did that develop? And like, when did you realize what horniness was?

00:06:15:19 - 00:06:33:07

kd

Well, you know, to get like explicit about it, I forget what age it was, but like, I would stuff my shirt with pillows as a child after that and was like, oh yeah, this is like so hot. I didn't realize it was hot. But, you know, it was like one of those things where I was like, yeah, like something about this is making me feel like all tingly in my body is, you know what I mean?

00:06:33:07 - 00:06:52:12

kd

Like stuff like that. I sure do. Eventually that turned into, like, you know, grinding on the pillows, you know, like there was a transitional moment where I was like. But what if I actually like instead rubbed myself up against this, like something connected and I don't remember, like, when or how, but like something connected where I was like, wait a second.

00:06:52:13 - 00:07:13:17

kd

So some, some like House or whatever, like it became like a part of it, which turned into that eventually, like actually masturbating, but like the transitions, realizing that like engorged things were exciting, like looking a little engorged or like, you know, big myself and then rubbing up against those things and then being like, but wait a second, I can, like, rub myself?

00:07:13:19 - 00:07:16:07

kd

Yeah. Like that is a possibility.

00:07:16:09 - 00:07:24:07

Luna

Did you ever get any, like, guidance about sex or pleasure from adults you trusted, like whether it was school or parents or other people?

00:07:24:09 - 00:07:45:07

kd

You know, I grew up in South Florida and it's always been a bit of a trash fire, but I happened to be just old enough that they did have sex education in my elementary school. I remember very vividly in third grade, they separated the boys in the girls and they like, brought the boys all into one room and all the girls into another room.

00:07:45:07 - 00:07:59:17

kd

And they actually, like, turned the lights off and made us all sit on the floor. And the teacher sat on the floor with us. So it was like kind of it's very like intimate. Like they removed the concept of it being like classroom and instead we're like, hey, we're going to sit in a circle, shoot a bag of like objects that were mostly about menstruation.

00:07:59:17 - 00:08:22:17

kd

But she did have some like little diagrams. And, you know, it's third grade, so we're all like eight, nine. Some of us were about to get our periods, so that made sense. But I remember Miss Barnett sat on the floor with us in the in the dark classroom, and she said, we're going to talk about a lot of things that maybe no one told us talk to you about before, but I'm going to get something out of the way so you all, like, can really focus.

00:08:22:19 - 00:08:44:07

kd

And she looked at this crew of eight year old girls and she said, penis. And I need you to know that an adult's looking us in the eye and saying the word penis. We lost our shit. We were like, oh, I got it ready for. But I have to give her some credit. It really, like, set the tone that she was like, okay, we got that out of our system.

00:08:44:07 - 00:08:52:06

kd

Now we're going to talk about like, you know, how your bodies work a little bit. And I think about that regularly because she really did us a solid. You know, I mean.

00:08:52:08 - 00:08:55:23

Luna

Yeah, the tone of that is beautiful. I love Miss Barna.

00:08:56:00 - 00:09:00:15

kd

Yeah I know public school, public schools in Florida. Before everything got completely awful. Yeah.

00:09:00:15 - 00:09:12:01

Luna

Wow. Okay. Yeah. Did you, like, talk about sex with your friends? What was the vibe like in your household? Also, like, when did you become aware of your queerness? Whatever. Whatever feels most salient.

00:09:12:03 - 00:09:32:14

kd

Yeah. So my mom has never been going to talking about anything. She handed me a book about puberty. Gosh, what's the name of it? Something. Something ominous from the 70s. Don't you mean? It's like one of those things where it's like one of those illustrated books that's like. It happens to everybody. Do you? What do you mean? Like something wild like that was like, kind of the max she, like, kind of flipped through it with me at one point.

00:09:32:14 - 00:09:50:08

kd

But for the most part, she was like, you seem to have things. Questions? Here, take this book. My little sisters are about seven years younger than me, and my mom was a single mom for a lot of my time growing up, and so I was often the person that was in like the kid that was sent to after school programing or did all of the afterschool events or.

00:09:50:10 - 00:10:11:17

kd

And then also during the summers, I was sent to a summer camp in Massachusetts for many years, which I like. I tell all of my friends like asterisks to the story. If you can afford it, send your kid to sleepaway camp because it made me so independent and it gave me such like a sense of myself that you can't really get when you're in the context of your family.

00:10:11:18 - 00:10:31:20

kd

Yeah. And they had a lot of really cool sex and stuff. That was the first time I was like 12, when one of the counselors use the word pansexual in front of me, and I went, what is that? And she sat down and she was like, let me explain it. And like, there was a sex education course, like one of the weekends where like one of the counselors, like, had like, diagrams.

00:10:31:20 - 00:10:52:19

kd

And then they basically were like, there's no stupid questions and would pass around a hat where you could like popcorn and a bunch of stuff. And so I think that in retrospect, my mom was like, I don't have the capacity to care for three children. I will send the eldest away. This will be good for her. And I don't think she realized that it meant that I like, understood, like sexuality, queerness, radical politics, like these.

00:10:52:20 - 00:11:10:13

kd

Like it was, she sent me to, like, a hippie camp in Massachusetts, and she did not know. What she was getting back, I think I think that I went there for seven years, like, so it's one of those things where, like, I was, I was indoctrinated. So, you know. Yeah.

00:11:10:16 - 00:11:16:02

Luna

What's so cool is it was that also a place where, like, explorations happen?

00:11:16:04 - 00:11:29:01

kd

It was literally called exploration. Oh, really? It was called explorer. It was literally called exploration Summer program or Expo. And it went junior, intermediate, senior. Okay. And in the senior program, we all called it sex bound.

00:11:29:03 - 00:11:35:14

Luna

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So did you do your exploring there or like what were your kind of like formative important experiences.

00:11:35:16 - 00:12:01:12

kd

With like no. Speaking of shame. Like, I knew from a young age that I was queer, but it wasn't necessarily in the most active, like it was more of, like, a reactive than a, like, proactive. It was more of me witnessed thing when everybody was starting to hit puberty, like so. So when I was like, I think it was sixth grade or seventh grade is when Titanic came out for me.

00:12:01:14 - 00:12:21:00

kd

And everybody was fucking obsessed with baby Leonardo DiCaprio. And I was like, this guy doesn't do it for me, and I don't understand why of you keep talking about him. It's very confusing. And so it was a lot of me being like, well, I just don't think I like that. Do you mean like, I just don't think I like that.

00:12:21:00 - 00:12:38:22

kd

And I struggled for a long time vocalizing it and verbalizing it, even though I went to a really progressive summer camp, even though all of my friends, like back at home in Florida, were incredibly supportive, and I knew I knew a lot of queer people or like sort of baby queer people who maybe didn't fully know what they were doing.

00:12:38:22 - 00:12:58:03

kd

I mean, but yeah, it took me a long time. I actually did not do anything sexually until I was out of the house. And I think it was entirely like fear of. Like how, like, honestly homophobic my family is joining me and like, they've done a lot of work, but I just knew it was going to be like a major issue.

00:12:58:05 - 00:13:00:10

Luna

So what did you do?

00:13:00:12 - 00:13:07:11

kd

I mean, I went to college and I finally, like, started like going to parties and like making out with girls. Okay.

00:13:07:13 - 00:13:24:17

Luna

Oh my gosh. Okay. We're going to fill in the gaps. But first I want to pause here and say, as a slutty human, what health and safety practices do you require to feel safe with a lover? Whether it's someone that you are familiar with or new people or. Yeah, tell us kind of the texture of your like, adult slut life.

00:13:24:19 - 00:13:55:07

kd

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, to the point of like the leather stuff, like I of being just like a leather dike, like, you know, kinky human. Lately, a lot of my practices aren't about necessarily like being penetrated or being touched that way. Like, it's all about, like, play. And so it's all about, like, getting close to the edge of something or there being some sort of layer of either protocol or boob blocking or licking or stomping, and then a lot of that stuff gets everyone, like, very horny.

00:13:55:12 - 00:14:13:04

kd

But like, I've found that something that's going on for me right now is just that, like my steadiness is about that, like I want to crawl over you and make out, but I definitely like, want us to like, fixate on like, what leathers are you wearing? Like, oh my God, look at those boots. Step all over me, please, mistress, do you really mean like,

00:14:13:06 - 00:14:37:03

kd

Yeah, but in general, like, everyone should have gloves, in my opinion, for all the time. Because you never know what's going to happen. Yeah, like just training. And I think that honestly, the most equipped everyone should be. And this goes for anything that, like I like to do when I'm also like being a grand maestro of like, you know, sort of like being like the person in the room that's like taking their Barbie dolls and being like kids, but with real people.

00:14:37:07 - 00:14:55:04

kd

You know, communication is like, I think my numero uno that means that everyone can be on the same page. So we can all have elaborate conversations about like, what are you into, what do you want? And then the safety comes from where you have in your tool belt in terms of your ability to say what is or isn't working for you in those moments.

00:14:55:06 - 00:15:13:02

Luna

Is that something you prefer to do, like ahead of time, crafting a connection, or do you like show up at a place based like, can you give us a sense of the texture and the level of conversation? Also, I just wonder if like it sounds like you're cool with like make out fluid exchange do like do do anything about like do you have a cold or are you a Covid person?

00:15:13:02 - 00:15:19:16

Luna

You know, like what? Because for me it's become I get sick so easily. So I'm like, maybe we can fuck, but not. It's I don't know, you know.

00:15:19:17 - 00:15:37:23

kd

When I first started really like leaning in to the level of sort of like make out, like, you know, party slut, I this is this is not science. That's why I like for all those listeners out there, I would always have whiskey and and be like, it's antiseptic. Like, that's not that's not a thing. I need everyone to know that.

00:15:37:23 - 00:15:55:19

kd

It's absolutely not. Not a thing. However, I did not actually get very sick when I was like when I was really like pre-COVID, like really just being like, hello, I on my body, like, I don't know, there's again, there's no science to it. In my 20s was a lot of staying up very, very, very late and not getting wasted, but always having that little like making out with someone and then being like, oh yes.

00:15:55:21 - 00:16:32:01

kd

So that's not, you know, to the point of threshold syndrome, as I like to call it. A lot of the times I'm not necessarily playing with somebody who's like a complete and utter stranger. Okay? Because I will say that is the pro of having like the Venn diagram of like queer leather spaces where there's a lot of like industry folks and sex workers like I lately when I go to a party, I know a lot of the people there and we've probably like had flirty conversations.

00:16:32:01 - 00:16:49:09

kd

And so there's already been a priming of the pump, if you will, that by the time we get to the party, I can turn to someone, I can turn to my like, friend number one and be like, hey, we've been teasing each other about how you want xyzzy like so what are we going to do tonight? You know what I mean?

00:16:49:09 - 00:17:08:18

kd

Like, we've kind of already gone past that. Okay. And to the point of what we were talking about at the very top point, when it comes to vulnerability, I'm aware that that makes me feel a lot safer. Do you mean like some people, have friends that they go bowling with? You know what I mean? And, like, I have friends that I watch them fish their partner.

00:17:08:20 - 00:17:13:10

Luna

I'm so cool. So are you. I'm getting the sense that you're toppy.

00:17:13:12 - 00:17:16:10

kd

Yes, I'm a I'm a switch. Like. Yes. Like. Yeah.

00:17:16:16 - 00:17:31:16

Luna

Well, you just tell us it's like some of your favorite things and maybe keeping in mind that not necessarily all the audience knows about the leather community. Like, I would just love to hear kind of your favorite things to do with your not bowling slutty friends.

00:17:31:18 - 00:17:53:09

kd

I love punching people. It's called impact play. Any anything that will let me, either use my hands or an implement is really exciting to me. I sort of joke that I am a, back alley queer in the sense that I want to be able to use everything that's on my body. So like my boots, my belt, my leather gloves, and then we're going to go from there.

00:17:53:10 - 00:18:08:20

kd

Joining me and I, I'm not a big like carry a toy bag with all the fancy things in it. Like I really appreciate people who are like that. Like I've been at parties where it feels like people have like, you know, these like, and it's like there's like a million drawers and they're like, Who? Haha. Like, fantastic.

00:18:08:22 - 00:18:30:07

kd

I'm a simple man and I want to be able to fuck you up with whatever my body is doing. And so part of the reason I like impact that is with just like the weight of the body, like I've got, for instance, like these really incredible boots, they're called wesco's. Part of the name of it is that their West Coast made the heels of West Coast are like their engineer boots.

00:18:30:07 - 00:19:03:10

kd

They're they're for people that are, like, literally climbing up on telephone poles. They have steel toes and they've got big, chunky, chunky heels. I like to wear those boots because they're basically kicking boots. They do a lot of the work for me. And something that I've regularly done is I basically surf on top of people, and I'm a very tiny person, so I'll lay people out facedown and I can, like with a chair or a wall or maybe a supporting friend, like I can put like the one boot laterally, like right above somebodies like booty slash like hips, you know, very carefully.

00:19:03:10 - 00:19:31:00

kd

You have to know. You have to know what you're doing there atomically so you don't hurt people. One boot like approximately booty and then one boot like sort of perfectly between their shoulder blades. And you can just sway back and forth and it compress people. And what it does to people is it it's almost like when somebody has just finished, like it's the ecstatic experience of of compression and massage and also like having an entire person stand on top of you.

00:19:31:04 - 00:19:39:11

Luna

That's so cool. Do you ever fall over? I would worry that I would fall over and squish everybody in pointy ways.

00:19:39:13 - 00:20:04:12

kd

You know, the key is to always have like, if you're going to do it, for instance, like in the corner of a room, like so you can, you can use the wall to sort of really support yourself, use the back of a chair to support yourself or, you know, inevitably a lot of people want to watch that. So you encourage the audience, the audience, if you will, to sort of like be your support because you also you don't want to you don't want to move too quickly with it because that could cause damage.

00:20:04:12 - 00:20:06:14

kd

You want to to compress and crush.

00:20:06:14 - 00:20:12:03

Luna

And like also we don't want to rush anything for the for the one experiencing a crush. Like I don't want my crush to be.

00:20:12:03 - 00:20:15:00

kd

Like, are we rushing this? Yeah. No no no.

00:20:15:02 - 00:20:23:07

Luna

Oh, damn. Okay. One of my big fantasies is just having a little adult playground, and I'm like, this would be perfect for the parallel bars.

00:20:23:07 - 00:20:25:17

kd

Like, oh, yeah. Exactly.

00:20:25:17 - 00:20:29:07

Luna

Or under the jungle gym. Okay. Wow. What else?

00:20:29:09 - 00:20:53:14

kd

Back to sort of like childhood growing up instead of having a, like, blankie, I had a leather glove that my grandma gave me, this Italian leather glove. I know, like, grandma, why would you give me Italian leather gloves when I was like an infant? And so when I was a child, I loved smelling that leather glove. I love the smell of it.

00:20:53:16 - 00:21:24:07

kd

And so I literally developed this thing, which then, of course, subsequently made it. So I had to have braces. But I would suck my fingers like this, and hold the leather glove in my pinky ring finger and thumb so that I could hold it, like fall asleep with the smell of the leather. Wow. Upon sharing this with one of my like, first, like, bigger relationships in my really early 20s, my partner at the time looked me and he was like, oh, you like leather,

00:21:24:09 - 00:21:33:18

kd

Let me introduce you to something. And so that was how I learned boot blacking is basically the person who was my daddy at the time introduced me to his daddy.

00:21:33:20 - 00:21:34:10

Luna

00:21:34:12 - 00:21:59:11

kd

And Levi and I spent an entire afternoon together. We, like, made a big pot of coffee, and Levi laid out every type and texture of leather possible and all of the tools that you used to take care of them. And we went piece by piece by piece. And that was how I learned boot blocking. It was September of 2007 because it was out, Dark Odyssey, Dark Odyssey, Summer camp and after that, I didn't really know what to do next with it.

00:21:59:11 - 00:22:15:00

kd

To be entirely honest. I knew I was excited about it. But, you know, it's like anything when you're entering, when you're entering into a new world and a new scene, like, you know, what's the the point of entry gets complicated, right? It's like I had I had some of the concepts and some of the skills, but I didn't quite know how to, like, move myself into the next world.

00:22:15:02 - 00:22:38:22

kd

And then I feel. So it's the joy of metamorph is like my metamorph Anna. She gifted me, vintage black kit for Hanukkah that year. I still have it. It like, has her, like, original note in the cover of it. And she like, what she'd done is she'd found, like, a pre-made little like, kit on eBay and, like, gifted to me for Hanukkah and I got myself on a bus.

00:22:38:22 - 00:22:56:17

kd

I was living in Portland, Maine at the time. I got myself on a bus, met up with a bunch of friends in Providence, Rhode Island. They scooped me into their car, so I took a three hour bus to Providence, Rhode Island. This is some early 20s shit. This is like shit I would never do. I literally like there there's a party in New York that's been going on for over 25 years called submit.

00:22:56:18 - 00:23:16:14

kd

And, submit party is in Park Slope of all places in the basement of this, like, old brownstone. And my friends scooped me from Providence and in their car, and we drove from Providence to New York, which anyone who understands the geography of the northeast. I was in a car for like eight hours. I was on a bus.

00:23:16:14 - 00:23:29:17

kd

In a car, like for eight hours, like, it was a lot. We literally got ourselves to a diner, ate some food, and went right to that party. And I walked up to the person who running the party. Who the person who founded the party. This person, Red, who is lovely and has now like kind of stepped away from it.

00:23:29:17 - 00:23:50:15

kd

But for years Red was running this party. I walked up to Red and I was like, I really want to whoop, like at this party, but I don't know what to do. And Red grabbed me a chair and a really fancy, like, you know, red light and was like, here, like, have this corner. And according to my friend Lauren, who was with me, I was the belle of the ball at that party.

00:23:50:17 - 00:24:01:13

kd

I was on my knees taking care of people's boots. It was my first time doing anything like it. Okay. The party started at like 10 p.m. we didn't leave until 6:00 in the morning.

00:24:01:13 - 00:24:02:14

Luna

Holy shit.

00:24:02:16 - 00:24:24:17

kd

I didn't stop. That's all I did. I took care of people's leathers. I licked people's boots. I like made out with people. It was wild. And then my very last person who I took care of, you know, the sun just started to come up. They were like, you've been working so hard, can I give you a massage? And so basically, like, I ended the night getting like a nice, like, rub down because I was like, on my knees for like hours.

00:24:24:19 - 00:24:26:05

Luna

Wow.

00:24:26:07 - 00:24:31:04

kd

And that set me off on, like, a whole, like, this is this is totally my shit. Yeah.

00:24:31:10 - 00:24:37:12

Luna

Oh, my God, that's so cool. Can I ask a couple of, like, specific details that are total newbie questions?

00:24:37:14 - 00:24:38:18

kd

Lay it on me.

00:24:38:20 - 00:24:48:02

Luna

When you're taking care of other people's boots, are you, like, polishing them? And then if you lick them, are you getting polish on your mouth? Like, does your tongue turn black? Do you get poisoned? Like, what happens? What do we need to know?

00:24:48:04 - 00:25:07:03

kd

These are these are great questions. If you're doing your job right, you should not be getting any product when you're like actually following up. There's different processes like some people will clean the boot and get all of the dirt and like, you know, if like various, you know, city life away and then some people will look and then they'll, you know, everyone's got their own process.

00:25:07:03 - 00:25:25:20

kd

Like, I like to from start to finish, like clean, buff, polish and then lick the boot all over. And then I might give one more a little wipe down and put the person's laces back in. And, you know, depending on, on what happens, you know, that's my method. But you basically shouldn't be using so much product that you're tasting it in any way.

00:25:26:00 - 00:25:46:14

Luna

Don't I mean, now I do now I do what about I'm sure this is different for every person who you what do you say? Service like or boot black like you just okay. What kinds of connections have you experienced? Like are you so focused on your task or are you like connecting with them in a certain way, or like what are kind of like your favorite textures of that?

00:25:46:15 - 00:25:50:00

Luna

Either give or receipt? Do you receive now to like, oh yeah.

00:25:50:00 - 00:26:07:17

kd

So I was international. I want, I want a title, I want what is known as a leather title, which, you know, we can we can talk more about that. And that's the intricacies of leather titles and so on and so forth. But I went from the trajectory of being like, oh, I used to smell leather glove to like, I'm on my knees for 1,000,000 hours, like, wow, I'm obsessed with this thing.

00:26:07:21 - 00:26:24:12

kd

Like, I started volunteering for international This Leather. I decided to run for international. And this boot black like I won that in 2011. So I've had to sit for a lot of people because I give feedback. I've judged contests I've received in that way, but it's a little bit like the shoemakers children have no shoes. Do what I mean.

00:26:24:12 - 00:26:53:06

kd

Like I regularly look at my I regularly look at my own boots and I'm like, oh shit, those look terrible. Like, I'm like regularly focusing on other people. Like with any practice, there are so many ways that you can approach a practice and the flair or the specialty that people bring to it, and similar to the concept of me being like a bad back alley, like homosexual, I am very much like a simple boot black.

00:26:53:06 - 00:27:15:22

kd

Like, I don't tend to have a ton of ton of fancy products. I really just want everyone's leathers to be taken care of. I don't tend to repair the leather. It's all about like upkeep. It's not about fixing holes or fixing things because the connection is more important to me. Like, I'm going to make your leather look good, but I don't go into like a k hole of focus.

00:27:15:22 - 00:27:38:02

kd

Like, for me, if someone sits down in my stand to like, walk you through it, I can tell as I'm taking that those person's laces out or as I'm examining their boots and like putting my hands in their boots, I can tell what sort of experience people are anticipating. Some people do want to just smoke a cigar, like play on their phone and talk to their friend, drink their drink and cruise because it's a great cruising spot.

00:27:38:04 - 00:27:54:17

kd

You can totally you can flirt with everybody, you can see everybody. You're you're on a raised element. You can look out over the party or the festival or wherever we're at. Some people, I can tell it's almost like there are flower bending towards the sun. They will lean towards me and their whole body will be very invested. They'll be like, so what are you doing?

00:27:54:17 - 00:28:08:01

kd

So what's that like? They'll ask questions. I'll make eye contact with me, and maybe they'll even start to put their hands on me while I'm working. And then I know they want a very specific type of experience. They want me to. Every time I do anything, they want me to look at them. They want me to touch them.

00:28:08:01 - 00:28:25:15

kd

They want me to take my time. So that's kind of like the two different types, like main paths that you can kind of branch off on. I can really tell when somebody wants me to lick their boots. I can also tell when somebody is like, not ready for that, you know what I mean? Like, okay, I used to teach a class, which I'm going to be bringing back this year called How to Give Good Chair.

00:28:25:17 - 00:28:49:15

kd

Oh, I love that. And the focus of the class, like in the in the 60 minutes of the class, like the first like 15 is about like the process of boot walking, but the rest is about flirting, topping, bottoming service. Like how can you the energetic exchange that comes from boot blocking and leather workshop and leather care, and that is more important to me than whether you have the most pristine boots.

00:28:49:15 - 00:29:01:05

kd

When you leave, you will, to be clear, like I many, many times people will go, oh my God, they look better than they did. Like out of the box. And like, that's true, they will, but that's not my main priority.

00:29:01:06 - 00:29:11:08

Luna

I love that I really love that. What about as a receiver? Is it different for you or like what do you what kinds of connections do you prefer? Or is that depend person person.

00:29:11:10 - 00:29:31:09

kd

You know, as somebody who is like very like the list game is in this world, in this world of very, very specific specific like micro microSD, microSD, zoom in of leather worship, a lot of people get really nervous and they aren't ready to, like, give that sort of thing to me. Like a lot of people want to talk to me about boot blocking.

00:29:31:09 - 00:29:34:03

kd

They want they want a mentorship. Yeah. Vibe.

00:29:34:05 - 00:29:34:18

Luna

Oh, I get and.

00:29:34:18 - 00:29:50:03

kd

So I yeah. And so I bring that out in people sit for people. I sat for someone the other day who was like oh my God, internationals of like 2011. Like that's, that's wild. Like, oh my god. Like and then teasing me like while they're working on me, they like kind of were like, oh, you know, like you've been in the scene for a long time.

00:29:50:03 - 00:30:08:00

kd

You're kind of a little bit of a dinosaur. And I just like, you know, you just call me a dinosaur. Are me flirting like, I don't really want to be a dinosaur. And also, like, I ain't that old honey bunny juice that, like, there be some there be some babies that were like seven years old when I was starting to do leather workshops.

00:30:08:00 - 00:30:13:01

kd

So for them, I do seem like a dinosaur. I do seem like I am very old. Oh my.

00:30:13:01 - 00:30:18:19

Luna

God, I never called anyone in their 30s old when I was in my 20s. Just saying. Like, I don't think I know.

00:30:18:19 - 00:30:37:03

kd

Me neither. I like don't even. I am like age. Age is just a number or whatever. Like I don't even see it. But there is a little bit of a, I think people get nervous. I think people get nervous, like, and I think that they want to see me as a resource. So I'm not necessarily getting the same sort of, reception that I, but I it's not as sexy, which is fine.

00:30:37:03 - 00:30:54:13

kd

Like, that's the community building part, right. Like I understand, like that's my positionality and that's totally fine. But people aren't like, you know, like, I don't remember the last time somebody somebody looked at my boots on the stand joining me. And because like, by the end, I think they're just like, whoa. Like we had like a connection. We talked about our feelings, you know?

00:30:54:15 - 00:31:12:22

Luna

Well, so that was actually what I was just about to wonder is what sort of connection or like what what would you like to feel from a person or what type of connection wants to be in place for it? Like is looking considered more intimate for you? Like how do you kind of like think about it and what, you know, in a theoretical situation where you might receive that, what would you want it to be like?

00:31:13:00 - 00:31:29:02

kd

I don't necessarily okay, this is the part where it's just like me just being a slut, like, you know, like I don't know the names of the people who sit down for me. I'm like, probably sometimes people will be like, I sat for you, like last month, and I'll be like, absolutely, I. And like I say, I would love like I, I like a lot of people.

00:31:29:06 - 00:31:47:03

kd

Yeah, I like a lot of people. So I don't and everyone of them is very special. And also part of it is leather and leather. Worship for me are intertwined. Some people see them as very separate, like some people will only lick their tops boots. Some people will only lick their daddies boots. Their mom. Is boots different? I mean, but for me, I'm like, gotta catch them all.

00:31:47:05 - 00:31:55:18

kd

Like, do you want it? I will, I will give you the time of your life. Like I'm very thorough with my mouth. So that's very important to me.

00:31:55:19 - 00:31:58:00

Luna

What does that mean? You lick the whole boot.

00:31:58:01 - 00:32:13:18

kd

Oh, yeah. And depending on how like, nasty someone wants to get and depending on, like, the moon, I mean, like, I'll sometimes even, like, put the stiletto heel in my mouth if it's a heel, like, you know, the late the heel, like, lick the sole, there's something very abject about someone licking the bottom of your boot, especially when you live in a city.

00:32:13:20 - 00:32:33:04

kd

So like some of it is also like things that are abject are hot. So the concept of licking someone's boots specifically because you can look all leather, dirty, mean someone, like when somebody comes to me in like a beautiful leather corset. Oh my God, so much fun, sexy, sexy, sexy. Then I'm literally licking their whole torso, right? Like and holding them tight and, like, clutching them and stuff.

00:32:33:04 - 00:32:49:14

kd

That's incredible. But there's something kind of, like, nasty about someone who's a literal, like, definition of a bootlicker, right? Like our society has like, a lot of fucked up concepts of boot licking, right? Like, do any I mean, like it's connected to this concept of like, debasing yourself and like, trying to get ahead by debasing yourself and all this stuff.

00:32:49:14 - 00:33:11:08

kd

So the concept of taking something that is debasing and instead turning it like, that's the definition of horny, right? Like doing something that is abject or debasing or not quite right and making it into a sex sex affair. You know what I mean? Making it into a sex event. You know, it's like a lot of people get, like, really upset and even more horny about it.

00:33:11:08 - 00:33:11:23

kd

You know.

00:33:12:01 - 00:33:31:06

Luna

What? Oh, so. Okay, so between the first time in New York where you were on your knees from 10 p.m. to 6 a.m. and like now where you have amassed this kind of knowledge and leadership in your community, what other like, turn ons turn off and explorations, whether or not have you, like, discovered about yourself?

00:33:31:08 - 00:33:55:06

kd

You know, I joke, I am a voyeur at heart. Like I actually I'm happy to just be in the room. I'm really, really happy to just be in the room. I joke that, like, I'll be the guy walking around like eating a sandwich or the sex party being like, do you need more lube? Using has. Do you mean like, I'm very happy to just be present, which means that like, I've also both experienced and witnessed things that I'm like, oh yeah, that's how.

00:33:55:09 - 00:34:12:16

kd

Oh yeah. No. And it's so interesting to me. I don't tend to have like a visceral reaction to things. So I tend to like I think maybe that can be a little connected to like levels of shame. Like I feel like when we're having a reaction, like it can be connected to shame. I don't have a lot of those reactions.

00:34:12:16 - 00:34:47:05

kd

And this is also funny because I'm a tattoo artist. I get really overwhelmed by what's known as like, hook play or like hook suspension or, needle play when you know something about the sharp object going through flesh and coming out totally fucks my shit up. Really, I know, and it's not like I haven't witnessed it or been around it or like there's also in terms of like the tattoo world and the kink world, like it's one of the areas that like really overlaps, like I've been at tattoo conventions and people have been doing hook suspension because there's a little bit of that sort of like underground, like fuckery.

00:34:47:07 - 00:35:02:08

kd

It gives me a feeling even talking about it right now, I'm having that like, sort of like it gives me like weird goosebumps. Like something about it is making me go, no! Which makes me wonder, like at some point will I eventually, like, be like, I must do it? Because obviously scares me. Yeah, obviously scares me.

00:35:02:10 - 00:35:04:10

Luna

What is the fear like? What's the fear feel like?

00:35:04:15 - 00:35:27:20

kd

I think the word visceral again comes comes to mind. There's something that makes my whole body have a heebie reaction to the witnessing of the pierced flesh. I am positive that in the right hands this would be very horny for someone like I'm fully aware that like, the thing I'm describing may be the exact reason why people love it.

00:35:27:22 - 00:35:28:09

Luna

00:35:28:11 - 00:35:47:15

kd

You know what I mean? It's it's like it's it's it's that fine line between, like, fetish and fear. Like I, for some reason, have crept over to the fear side of the fetishization of that, whereas other people I know, it's part of the reason they love it. The same exact things that I'm describing, the way the flesh punches, the way that the object is going through.

00:35:47:15 - 00:36:05:21

kd

Like I'm pretty certain that is also the ultimate reason why people are like, this is the only thing I want to do ever. Like people who are really into piercing, really into needles. Like I'm positive about it, but something about it makes me feel like something dangerous is about to happen to my body. Like it's it's a oh, now really?

00:36:05:21 - 00:36:07:01

kd

Like, you know.

00:36:07:03 - 00:36:10:02

Luna

Our animal bodies are like, don't poke my container. Yes.

00:36:10:04 - 00:36:26:05

kd

Yes, that's I think a part of it, you know what I mean? Like, absolutely. You know, I've had like when I go in to get, like blood drawn for things, like I have to look away. I have to be, like, upsetting me. There's a needle entering into my body. And inevitably, nine out of ten times the phlebotomist is like, well, you're covered in tattoos.

00:36:26:05 - 00:36:44:23

kd

And I have to be like, it's different. You are a medical professional and you like the tattoo needle isn't going into any further past the second layer of skin. I was like, if my needles were going as deep as your needle, I would should be arrested. Like, yeah, that's, you know, like it's not the right. It's not. These are not the same.

00:36:44:23 - 00:36:48:22

kd

It's not a fear of needles. It's a fear of the the tricks and the exit.

00:36:49:01 - 00:37:05:23

Luna

I love watching it personally, like in my own self, but I'm a, you know, media masochist. And so I'm like, it's going to hurt this time. And I like to watch it get filled up and I feel, yeah, glad it's not a tick. And I'm also like it makes me feel like strong kind of or whatever, you know, like you can take my blood, but I'm still alive.

00:37:05:23 - 00:37:07:07

Luna

Haha. You know, like.

00:37:07:09 - 00:37:26:22

kd

No, listen, I totally get it. Like, I get it like people that do like the really intricate patterns and like, add bottles to it. I watch the scene again because I'm happy to voyeur. I watched a scene where there were six people in a circle. They had needles that were all attached to each other via a fishing line.

00:37:27:00 - 00:37:27:21

Luna

Oh, that would scare.

00:37:27:21 - 00:37:44:21

kd

And then all of these tops were walking around and, single telling them. And so what would happen was a little bit of like scientific reaction where it if, if person number one got got single tailed and they went like this, everyone had an experience like it was a ripple effect.

00:37:44:23 - 00:37:45:10

Luna

Yeah.

00:37:45:10 - 00:38:03:16

kd

That's so cool. And I had to sit far away enough that I could experience it as a larger scene. And not see how they were getting pulled on, because that was too much for me. I said, I don't know what that is. Yeah, yeah. So again, I'm always willing to be in the room. I'll say yes to are saying yes to anything, and then I'll say no when I don't want to do it anymore.

00:38:03:18 - 00:38:10:11

Luna

I love that, I love, but how did you develop that skill? Is it something that you've always had, or was it something that you like cultivated over time?

00:38:10:13 - 00:38:17:02

kd

I'm always a really curious, and I've always been very non-judgmental. I have a large I have a wide scale factor. Do you mean like, do.

00:38:17:08 - 00:38:21:12

Luna

I have a low disgust for it? Like I you have to be pretty disgusting to disgust me.

00:38:21:18 - 00:38:44:07

kd

I've joked that, like, you want somebody with a low squeak factor and who is a voyeur like you will always be safe because they're going to know everything that happens, right? I've been in rooms, I've been in scenes, and I've like, like things have happened and I've been able to be the person who's like, because I'm not going to feel grossed out or confused or scared of what's happening, you know, even if it might, like, make me a little like after the fact, there might be like in an emergency, for example.

00:38:44:08 - 00:39:00:07

kd

It might after the fact. My body might be like, whoa, whoa, what happened? But I'm the man you want in an emergency because I'm not going to be grossed out. I'm not going to be like, oh no, I can't. And that's always been a factor. Like, I'm willing to walk through the door if it's open, and then sometimes I'll know, like once I walk through the door, you know what?

00:39:00:07 - 00:39:02:12

kd

I just don't want to walk through the door again. But at least I walk through it.

00:39:02:17 - 00:39:07:01

Luna

Yeah, yeah. Reverse out what kinds of emergencies might happen.

00:39:07:03 - 00:39:12:08

kd

Okay. I'm going to this is the my voyeurism joke. Are you familiar with body storytelling? Have you heard of body storytelling?

00:39:12:14 - 00:39:33:02

Luna

Body like Be a Wedding? Yeah, that that was the first sex podcast I ever listened to and I felt so overwhelmed. The girth was probably a decade ago, and I think like. And I remember listening to it and being like, I don't even know what they're talking about. How will I learn about sex? I'm so I'm never going to have sex like I want, you know?

00:39:33:02 - 00:39:38:14

Luna

And so that's my and then I so I listened to like two episodes and then got scared and went on this whole journey.

00:39:38:16 - 00:39:46:12

kd

Yes, I mean, it makes complete sense because body body storytelling is, is sort of like the moth in the sense that, like, no one's going to explain what the fuck's happening, they're just going to tell a story.

00:39:46:12 - 00:39:57:14

Luna

Do I know? Which is why I try to create a lot of context. So that people know we're coming from the opposite, because I was like a little autistic girl trying to be like, what? What's happening? Where's the connection?

00:39:57:16 - 00:40:20:09

kd

Right. Absolutely confused. Yeah, yeah. Like, why do I feel so horny and also scared? I told the story about storytelling a million years ago, but I was at, sex party that took place in Connecticut. That one of my sweeties used to run and called queer Invasion. R.I.P queer invasion was a fantastic party. It was a lovely party in the state of Connecticut.

00:40:20:09 - 00:40:37:21

kd

You are actually able to consent to assault. Oh so yes. And so queer invasion took place in a warehouse that was literally right next to one of those cop shops where they all, like, dropped off their cars and shit. It was weird. It was weird to walk into a sex party and be like, hi there, officer. And they were right there.

00:40:37:22 - 00:40:39:00

kd

Like, it was fucking strange.

00:40:39:05 - 00:40:40:21

Luna

Did they ever come to the parties? Probably not.

00:40:40:21 - 00:41:12:01

kd

And probably no, no, no, thank goodness. Yeah. Who wants on there? My, my my wife was being bullied by two of two of our dear friends. They were they were doing a sort of like forced them seeing, you know, and I'm like eating a sandwich, like watching watching them do. And right next, right next to them. The thing to know about the space, the invasion, queer invasion is that it was called queer invasion because like approximately 300 queers would come and be in this warehouse dungeon space that was actually run by a bunch of straight people.

00:41:12:03 - 00:41:32:04

kd

And so, yes, and so of course, they made so much money off of us. We were the most interesting event that they had. But it also meant that the members, it was a members only club. Those members could come on any night and of course, they loved coming to queer invasion nights because it was much more interesting and full and vibrant and were all very out for blood and dirt bags.

00:41:32:06 - 00:41:52:09

kd

And so two of the society members and I bring this up, mostly because I don't feel like this would have happened with our people. So I'm standing and I'm watching my wife get forced, filmed to the left and in the scene in the on the horse next to them, this much older gentleman crawls onto the horse and his top.

00:41:52:09 - 00:42:11:23

kd

This very tall woman, is getting him set up so that she can do a bunch of impact on him and, you know, has a bunch of implements laid out, and he realizes that he still has his glasses on. And so he goes to remove his glasses, and he's on the horse, though, so he goes to remove his glasses and he's he's elevated a little bit.

00:42:12:04 - 00:42:28:06

kd

He folds them up. And it's one of those things where, like, I wasn't close enough to take his glasses from him. I don't know if she clocked that he was doing it, who really knows. But he went to put his glasses down and he fell off the horse and had a cartoon style crunch. Happens.

00:42:28:12 - 00:42:29:14

Luna

00:42:29:16 - 00:42:55:12

kd

And his arm was at a perfect, 90 degree angle. He broke his arm. My arm broke his arm right there. And that's the thing about being a warrior, is that I literally was like, Holy shit. And, like, was able to, like, get him a chair, get him a blanket. My, our two friends that were talking, my wife, I was like, emergency.

00:42:55:12 - 00:43:17:16

kd

And they're both very good. They're like, you know, teachers, parents. And so they were like, oh shit. And so we went in to like emergency mode and, you know, had to call EMTs like they had to come into the we had to stop the sex party like, but like we were the ones that wrapped him in a blanket, took care of him, brought him up to the front like got him some water, got him some, like, you know, candy, like we're talking like a guy broke his arm.

00:43:17:18 - 00:43:30:06

kd

Meanwhile, the person who was talking, then she disappeared. Oh, she fucking she fucking disappeared. She was the one who was like. She was the reason he was on that horse. Oh, to have it on. And then she fucking ran a.

00:43:30:07 - 00:43:33:00

Luna

Dog about a drop. Damn.

00:43:33:02 - 00:43:34:12

kd

Literally.

00:43:34:14 - 00:43:36:09

Luna

Yeah.

00:43:36:11 - 00:43:53:02

kd

Yeah. Anywho. Okay, so yeah, that is like, voyeurs are really helpful voyeurs with a low threshold for first quick like that crunch. I will never forget. It was it was creepy. It was a creepy crunch.

00:43:53:04 - 00:44:07:19

Luna

Oh my God. I also want to just highlight I'm feeling pretty inspired by this conversation. I mean, that's a very serious injury. But I'm like, oh, oh, I could go to parties and just be a voyeur. Like, I forget sometimes, you know? And also because I get approached a lot, I get approached a lot and then I'm like, oh, right, I don't know.

00:44:07:22 - 00:44:15:08

Luna

I need you to be able to say everything out loud with words. And if you're not going to do that, I'm not going to play with you. You know, like, I need clear communication and I don't just like.

00:44:15:10 - 00:44:34:18

kd

Oh, we should just put you in a gimp, a gimp mask, and then nobody will engage with you and you can just wander around as if. Yeah, like, literally, we can put you, we can put you in a basket. You can put you in one of those the leather cuffs that makes it look. And then you could literally just be led around and then you get to experience the whole event from like a sort of outside, inside, outside perspective.

00:44:34:18 - 00:44:38:09

kd

And nobody gets to fuck with you because it seems like you're kind of in a permanent scene.

00:44:38:11 - 00:44:53:17

Luna

Ooh, I that's even better, because because I was like, okay, if I go to King Fest in Portland, then maybe I'll put table for my mouse and just right shy or like, do not touch or like, please touch. But here, you know, and because I'm like, I do want to be touched, I just don't I don't know I don't have that.

00:44:53:17 - 00:45:05:04

Luna

Okay. So we have surfing across bodies. We've heard about some kicking you mentioned like preferring hands to implements. But do you love some implements. Like if you had to implement, what would you implement?

00:45:05:06 - 00:45:12:01

kd

Oh yeah. I do love being flogged, which is a little bit like beyond like who doesn't? It's the most soothing fantastic experience.

00:45:12:01 - 00:45:18:01

Luna

For me on though. Yeah. Do you like big? Do you like stinky? Like what? What kinds of sensations do you prefer to receive?

00:45:18:06 - 00:45:34:15

kd

I prefer thud, I prefer thud. The first time I was ever flogged it was at one of the dark. Obviously, events. This girl that. Oof! We had such like a hot, like, long distance, like obsessive, obsessive affair. Like it was so hot. But like, we finally got to play together at Dark Odyssey and I was like, I'll let you do anything to me, pretty lady.

00:45:34:15 - 00:45:51:07

kd

Do any I mean, like, whatever you want. And she was flagging me. And I remember thinking to myself, damn, it was my first time being flogged. Wow. This is like, really hurts in a way that, like, I guess people, I guess I'm not as tough as other people like this Burns is Burns. And afterwards she was showing me everything that she used, and her flogger was one that she made herself out of bike tires.

00:45:51:07 - 00:46:14:06

kd

So I learned. I learned that day that there is a difference between rubber and leather. I was a young, kinky person and I was like, right. Because the the rubber edges are quite sharp on a rubber flogger. And so I was like, I will do whatever you want for the lady. But I did not realize that, like, people are able to take floggings for like hours and like, be in this ecstatic experience because they're not having the experience that I had.

00:46:14:06 - 00:46:18:22

kd

I learned from that experience that I much prefer, but to just end.

00:46:19:00 - 00:46:32:09

Luna

Yeah, I have a lower tolerance for sting. I like a mixture. But do you get into like, the different types of leathers? Because I recently was at a like slugging workshop and they were like deer leather. These types of. So do you like get into those details.

00:46:32:11 - 00:46:47:14

kd

Again, I'm not much of a gearhead. So like is it made of leather? Love it. Great for the people. The people who who are gearheads like I'm so I'm so into them, you know what I mean? Like, I'm a I'm a great pairing with somebody who's going to be like, I'm going to lay out 17 different types of lagers.

00:46:47:18 - 00:47:03:11

kd

And they all have different lengths and thicknesses, and they're made from different heid, like, bless them. Fuck yeah. But like, I actually don't even own a fiber myself. Like the fibers we have are my wife's like, and I'm a simple man. Like, I just want to like, what are you into that? Like, there must be a word for this.

00:47:03:11 - 00:47:12:13

kd

I mean, some of it like, you know, Dan Savage calls it like jujudgdgee, but for the most part, like, if you really like it, I'm going to figure out how to like it. Like I'm probably going to like it with you, you know, the.

00:47:12:15 - 00:47:15:01

Luna

Highly responsive desire in that way.

00:47:15:06 - 00:47:23:19

kd

Yeah. When someone's horny for something, it makes me horny because you're so excited about something that I'm like, yeah, be a nerd for this thing. Like, oh my God, like, that's great. Like cool.

00:47:23:21 - 00:47:40:14

Luna

It's my favorite way to learn about stuff too. And I'm such a good, like, service human. I mean, I'm, I'm switching, but my top parts come from a deep whatever I'm doing. It's always in service to my larger mission, which is to make the world a sexier, more loving place. And, you know, if I'm in a place space, hopefully to also have pleasure for myself.

00:47:40:14 - 00:48:00:12

Luna

Although a lot of pleasure for myself comes from pleasing people, you know, and so then balancing that out and finding, you know, making sure that I'm in spaces where those people, I'm gonna say, deserve to be pleased in that way, you know, like I'm that's that's kind of like where I'm at right now. And so finding that community space, how did you find your people?

00:48:00:12 - 00:48:07:10

Luna

Is it just small community? Is it like, have you ever struggled in community aspects, or do you just like find your people in there? They are.

00:48:07:12 - 00:48:25:09

kd

You know, I feel really blessed. Again, I think it goes back to having been sent to summer camp, I won't lie, like, not to seem like I'm proselytizing about summer camp, but when you are flung as a small person, I went to I went to summer camp from age 9 to 16. I had to know how to meet people.

00:48:25:09 - 00:48:43:14

kd

I didn't go with other people that I knew when I went to those camps as a child. So like, you got to kind of figure out, like, you know, of course I was embarrassed, uncomfy, anxious about it when I was younger, but then I eventually learned how to become friends with people, and I think it really translated into my adult life.

00:48:43:14 - 00:49:06:13

kd

I've never really struggled to find my people. And again, it goes back to that Venn diagram of like, there's enough specificity. Do you know what I mean? Like, I remember one of my first big jobs when I was living in New York City, was for a nonprofit theater. And a lot of the straight women who are my colleagues, we were all in our like, you know, mid 20s and they were all very lonely.

00:49:06:15 - 00:49:23:09

kd

They became very, very close friends with each other. I became friends with them in different ways, like I had my individual friendships with all of them, but they would do a lot of stuff together. And I remember being confused because I was just like, are your only connections through work? Like, how are you only making connections through work?

00:49:23:11 - 00:49:50:23

kd

Because that's not how I make connections. Steering me in like that's subsequent. Like if I find myself madly in love with you after discovering that we work together and like, you're really cool person, that's great. But that's like an accident. Do you really mean like, that's that's not the context. And part of what I realized is that folks that aren't like on the queer spectrum in some capacity and don't have maybe some level of underground sexuality or specialized interest, they actually don't have an entry point for how to build community.

00:49:51:02 - 00:49:54:02

kd

Yes, you know what I mean. There isn't like a place for them.

00:49:54:02 - 00:50:17:23

Luna

To go during, like it's like you have church if you do that, maybe sex if you do that and then like maybe some others, you know, I know some birdwatching groups, some hiking groups, but it's like also we grew up in a society. I mean, I'm 34, turning 35, and it's like I definitely ate the productivity narrative pretty heavily, you know, and I think I do have a working like, but also I grew up with a mom that was like, make your work, your play.

00:50:17:23 - 00:50:34:19

Luna

And I don't think she meant for me to take it as far as I've taken it. I also am lucky that like, I am an artist, so my work is my like greatest love. But it's like, I totally know what you're talking about and I really want to create spaces, but like meet that. And also I'm like, I don't know if I'm a community builder yet.

00:50:34:19 - 00:50:48:20

Luna

I'm getting the skills. So you're a person who others in your community look to you for mentorship. Do you feel like you still have people to grow from or like people that like give you a holding feeling? It sounds like you do, but I'm just curious what that texture is like for you.

00:50:48:22 - 00:51:13:22

kd

I do, I mean, I think that's something that's really important to emphasize. It's a leather community, it's queer, it's straight, it's pansexual, it's everything. It's nothing. It's very sex work, friendly and that is very important to me. And something that is specific to the leather community. Like there's obviously like, you know, there's there's kink, you know, there's sex work, there's like and then there's the overlaps of all of these things.

00:51:14:01 - 00:51:36:00

kd

Yeah. But like leather specifically is about lineage. It's about it's about recognizing, like where you've come from and where you're going and where you're at. And the strongest. I think community builders and community members are folks who who are aware that they're part of, like an intricate, integrated web. And there's a history journey. I mean, and I feel that way about about queerness.

00:51:36:00 - 00:51:50:02

kd

You mean like we are where we are because of the people that came before us, and we need to not just honor them, but also like be aware of the lineage. And so when you take that and you add the queer leather part of it, I feel very blessed that I have. I have people who are both older and the same age as me and that we like.

00:51:50:02 - 00:52:13:07

kd

We hold each other accountable. We make space for each other. We can call each other when something is strange like, and I was just having this conversation with somebody who who I do consider a friend. But like we were talking about how like one of the strengths of the concept of community is that you don't even necessarily need to want to play, hang out with or like, fuck those people.

00:52:13:09 - 00:52:44:03

kd

You may not even like some of the people who you regularly see in your community, but part of the reason we're in a community is that we can figure out how to all be in the same space and do so from a place of care, and that is like also very restorative to me and very important. And so in the last year, I've sort of accepted, speaking of being a dinosaur, I worked on an event for the Museum of Contemporary Art, where we brought, the Carter Johnson Leather Library to Moca and, Mama Vibe, who's known me since I was like 20.

00:52:44:03 - 00:52:58:23

kd

So she's known me for a super long time to call me Uncle Katie. And I at one point was like, I'm not really an uncle yet. Like I'm still a baby. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. And she was like, look around at what you just did, and look at all of the young people who are asking you all these questions.

00:52:58:23 - 00:53:14:02

kd

I've been watching them do it. She was like, I'm really sorry, but you're an uncle now. Like. And I was like. And so like when an elder in your community looks at you and is like, I dub the I done the uncle like, you just gotta fucking lean in. So I'm just leaning in.

00:53:14:04 - 00:53:17:23

Luna

I love I want to circle back to Templeton for a second.

00:53:18:01 - 00:53:20:13

kd

Like you.

00:53:20:15 - 00:53:27:03

Luna

Like, have squishy bellies or like anything like that, you know, kind of come up in your adult life or was that just kind of a formative experience?

00:53:27:05 - 00:53:45:20

kd

You know, I've done a lot of thinking about this. I mean, I like all bodies. I do not discriminate on the basis of anything. I'm just like, you seem charismatic and cute, like, yeah, let me touch you. Like I have no, like, preferences. I don't have a type or anything like that. One of the things to hearken to is Tom.

00:53:45:20 - 00:54:06:06

kd

Often the illustrations, like those illustrations, are, I think, a really good example of the sort of like more adult relationship to the concept of things that are bulbous, engorged, like the men in these illustrations. Tom of Finland is quoted as saying, like so when he started doing the illustrations for what was called pictorial physique, it was before photography.

00:54:06:08 - 00:54:29:11

kd

And so his illustrations back early on were much more realistic. And then the advent of photography happened, and he basically was like, the only way to get these motherfuckers to like my work is to do something that photography cannot do, which is make these men something that is unrealistic and bonkers. And so he started drawing these men with these all these muscles like pecs like this, you know what I mean?

00:54:29:11 - 00:54:49:12

kd

Like, and, you know, like, their dicks are huge and they're throbbing, you know what I mean? And so my theory is that, like, I really do like when people are just, like, tight in their leathers, in their clothes, like, there's also an illustrator. Oh my gosh, I'm going to forget his name. I think he's Japanese. He's really known for what these illustrations of for something known as queening increment is queening.

00:54:49:12 - 00:54:53:19

kd

No, queening is hastening. It's when somebody sits on your face.

00:54:53:21 - 00:54:54:15

Luna

Okay, maybe I.

00:54:54:17 - 00:55:16:00

kd

Just put it there, like, put on your face. Oh, okay. There are these famous black and white illustrations again like gorgeous of these. Very like sort of Amazonian like burly, gorgeous curvy women and these tiny little wimpy men. Some of them like, for instance, there's there's one in particular that really stands out to me. I think that she's like, maybe like doing the dishes or like cooking.

00:55:16:00 - 00:55:39:08

kd

And she has a small naked man. She's belted him to her butt and his face is just consumed, just like completely smushed. And you can see the, like, bulbous ness of her, of her, her, her big booty like, consuming his face, you know what I mean? Like, and I think that's really fucking hot and really incredible. So that's my theory as to like how that really became a thing.

00:55:39:08 - 00:55:42:04

kd

Like, I find that so horny.

00:55:42:06 - 00:55:53:19

Luna

I love that so much. Zooming out a little bit. Would love to hear how is at all. Do you feel like societal norms have affected your personal pleasure?

00:55:53:21 - 00:56:09:13

kd

Controversial? I don't think they have. I have been for super long time. Like I don't look like a and move through the world like a, like a regular person, you know what I mean? Like when people like, close their eyes and say like woman, like, I don't come to mind. Do you mean like, I don't look that way?

00:56:09:13 - 00:56:31:18

kd

And so I haven't found myself personally, like, the government hasn't reached into my bedroom in the ways that it is with other people. I've always done a lot of like, work around like pro-choice and, access to abortion and have done a lot of, like one of my first illustration jobs was working for Planned Parenthood of Northern New England and doing a bunch of posters and educational materials for them.

00:56:31:19 - 00:56:49:09

kd

So, I've always done a lot of really important work with all that stuff. And like, I never I've never been on birth control do any mean, like, I don't fuck like that and I touch all bodies, but like, I'm not regularly enough in need to protect myself that way. So I'm always going to fight the good fight.

00:56:49:09 - 00:56:57:11

kd

And I continue to, and like, I'm not personally having an issue with the fact that I don't have access to certain things right now. Does that make sense?

00:56:57:16 - 00:57:06:06

Luna

Yeah, totally. Is there anything like on your erotic bucket list, personal bucket list, creative bucket list that you like, still want to explore?

00:57:06:07 - 00:57:23:20

kd

I mean, any door that someone wants to open again, I'll. I'll walk right through it. I'm ready. Like, roll out the carpet. You know what I mean? Like, if somebody looked me and they were like, it's time for you to get over your fear of needle play, and I want to pierce you. I would be like, okay, like, like, tag me in hand.

00:57:23:20 - 00:57:39:22

kd

Like, take me in hand. Like, you know, like for everything that I'm like, oh no, I simply cannot with that. Like, I'm just fully aware that, like, if the right person with the right vibe was like, I want to try this thing, I'm ready to make it so you feel really safe. Let's push your boundaries far. Yeah, I would do that.

00:57:40:00 - 00:57:59:16

kd

Yeah. I was, so there's this really incredible event photographer who's been photographing a lot of the leather duck events for the last, like, almost 30 years, named Janet Ryan. And Janet Ryan and I are, both the same, the same size. So often at events like, you'll see the two of a tiny, tiny little butchers running around, like taking photos, doing things like her photos are all over the place.

00:57:59:16 - 00:58:19:12

kd

I highly recommend looking her up. I remember one of the first things that I saw with her. She got turned into a dragonfly with needles they had found like basically like dragonfly wings. And whenever she would like flex her her back, the wings would kind of go like this because she had all of these piercings, like we're talking like hundreds of needles in her back.

00:58:19:15 - 00:58:40:20

kd

Yeah. Cool shit. And we all got dinner afterwards. It was me, her top and Janet. And I said to Janet, you know, I must have been like 24 when we had this conversation. I was like, tell me more about what is exciting to you about, like, hooks and needles. Like, why is that exciting? And she looked at me and she went, listen, I'm in my early 50s.

00:58:40:22 - 00:59:04:02

kd

And the views to get to a certain type of high is getting longer, as I've done so many things. And so now to to reach that euphoria that I used to get from things that weren't this extreme. I'm becoming more extreme as I age because I've now experienced so much that my, my, my library is getting really full.

00:59:04:04 - 00:59:17:06

kd

So I'm pushing my, my boundaries. And I think about that regularly. Like, you know, I don't know what the next thing will be for me, but I know that there's like a precipice that I'll probably reach where like, I'll know, like, yeah, like, this is this is the one, you know, I love.

00:59:17:08 - 00:59:21:05

Luna

I think it's so fun to not know personally. I mean, in certain contexts.

00:59:21:07 - 00:59:26:06

kd

Of not knowing. Yeah, I love not knowing. I am very fond of saying, I don't know.

00:59:26:08 - 00:59:49:08

Luna

Oh, yeah. It's a superpower. I think in some ways. I mean, I know we live in a world where everyone is trying to control everything consciously or unconsciously and like we need a certain measure of sense of control to feel safe. But it's like, for me, the world is so chaotic and unpredictable, and I because I either misread or misinterpret or to accurately interpret social norms or cues so often that there's human landmines.

00:59:49:08 - 01:00:05:13

Luna

Wherever I go, you know, I, I notice that that creates like a fear that has become my superpower. And also, you know, the bane of my existence because I don't have assumptions. I feel like I never know anything. You know, just when I sit down and I ask people the same questions over and over again, what are their kinks?

01:00:05:13 - 01:00:20:21

Luna

You don't have to go into great detail, but like, what other things have you explored that you haven't mentioned yet? Like we got some leather stuff. We've heard about needles in the future, but like, is there other stuff that you've, like gotten into this just been like fun or weird or that you've backed out over been like not closing that door now?

01:00:20:21 - 01:00:24:02

Luna

Like what? What are the keys a little list?

01:00:24:04 - 01:00:43:21

kd

Yeah. I mean, so on the laundry list, getting the shit kicked out of me. So fun taking the shit out of other people. Delightful. I do love this. I'm not necessarily flagging it. Like, I'm not like seeking it out, but in the right context. I'm totally ready. I get pee shy so I can't be a switch with really being.

01:00:43:23 - 01:00:51:13

kd

Yeah, like I, I'm like, I have like so much bravado. And then I like, you know, like whip my dick out and I'm ready. And then I'm like,

01:00:51:15 - 01:00:54:06

Luna

Even if you drink a lot of water.

01:00:54:08 - 01:01:09:22

kd

The only time that has, has really been great is when I've had, like, a lot of beers and like, the inefficient and like, we just moved out, you know what I mean? Like, I have to pee and also like, you know, like all inhibitions, including in my bladder, are like a little gone. So that's definitely really exciting. I also just I love to suck on people.

01:01:09:22 - 01:01:27:07

kd

So like so much of my time, like, this is the thing about being like a queer weirdo is that like a lot of since boys like, I always joke that like, there are so many of these, these leather, these leather boys that, you know, primarily gay, sometimes straight, like they don't know what to do with me. But when they do know what to do with me, it's really fun.

01:01:27:12 - 01:01:32:04

kd

And like.

01:01:32:06 - 01:01:51:03

kd

I always think to myself, like, you're a queer. Like, if you if you're letting me put your dick in my mouth. Yeah, you're a little you're you're a queer. Like, totally. You know, you may identify as, like, strictly gay. You may identify as straight. But if you like me, I'm I'm an entree. I'm an entree into a broader a broader world.

01:01:51:05 - 01:02:05:11

Luna

I relate to that. I mean, I look especially heteronormative now that my hair's growing back, too, but, like, I mean, I don't know if you experience that with, especially with, like, straight cis dudes when I'm like, so what are your balls like? Are they sensitive? Do you like to get touched? You like to get sucked on and they're like, oh, I don't know.

01:02:05:11 - 01:02:09:18

Luna

And then I'm like, come here and they're like.

01:02:09:20 - 01:02:26:09

kd

Oh my gosh, I had so much fun with. It's just unfortunate we never got to have more than a few a few dates. But I had so much fun with a cutie who was in chastity. Basically, even though he is, he is not a trans woman. We basically did a nothing scene because I couldn't access the rest of his junk.

01:02:26:11 - 01:02:35:03

kd

Yeah, and instead he guided me through all of the ways that I could reach in and play with the connection points while he was locked up.

01:02:35:06 - 01:02:36:20

Luna

That's so hot.

01:02:37:01 - 01:02:48:14

kd

Oh, my God, it was so hot. So hot. And also, like, so fun. Like that's another thing too, is like, I'm so ready to be like the Boy Scout. That's like, tell me what you want with your body.

01:02:48:18 - 01:02:49:05

Luna

Yeah.

01:02:49:10 - 01:03:08:00

kd

Okay. Tell me more. You know, like, I'll put on a glove. I'll like, literally just like, guide me like, like, lay down, like, you know, I'm a very small person and he's a very big person. And so, like, he was, like, laid out on my couch and I was just like, yeah, show me how to reach in so that, like, I can still play with you because you're locked up from your partner, like, oh, you know, let's let's make this happen.

01:03:08:00 - 01:03:10:05

kd

Yeah.

01:03:10:06 - 01:03:14:17

Luna

You mentioned fisting earlier. Is that something you have engaged in?

01:03:14:19 - 01:03:39:14

kd

Yes, I love fisting. I can be fisted, but I need, this is where it becomes, like, a little. Is it demi sexual? Like you need. You need a little bit of emotion. I can't just be fisted by, like, person number two. I need a little more intimacy for that. But again, tiny person, I've been the start of many fisting trains because I'm a good warm up.

01:03:39:16 - 01:03:51:10

kd

My little hands. Yeah, I'm really sad. There was a fisting party at precinct this past weekend, and I'm very sad that I was working and I couldn't make it, but, I had some people who went that are going to report back to me about how it how it was, but.

01:03:51:12 - 01:03:55:14

Luna

Oh my God. Yeah, I feel like any of them are a way to.

01:03:55:16 - 01:03:56:06

kd

Write.

01:03:56:06 - 01:04:10:00

Luna

Stories. Yeah. Oh my God, that's so cool. Okay, little question here. Just for the world. What do you think we need to make our planet a more sexy, connected and loving place?

01:04:10:01 - 01:04:55:12

kd

I think that we need to have a stronger foundation of, like, open communication, like across the board. Yeah. To your point about, like, no assumptions. I think that people need to be willing to talk and listen and that will like remove so many issues overall in the end, like open hearted conversation across the board, which I know is like a little like we should talk, but like it's, I don't know, like I feel like every time someone's having an issue with somebody or even like I've fallen madly in love with reading the, am I the asshole posts on Reddit?

01:04:55:17 - 01:05:03:11

kd

I really like those posts, and nine out of ten times the answer is did you talk to them? The Jojo conversation.

01:05:03:12 - 01:05:24:06

Luna

Most of the questions that I get are like, how do I talk to my person about this? You know, and oddly enough, to a lot of times they have talked to their person. So there's like something else behind that question. And yeah, yeah, if we were if we were taught differently, I think how to speak, you know, and also it is so confusing that people have the assumptions and they just don't realize when their assumptions are different.

01:05:24:06 - 01:05:41:10

Luna

Like, that's probably the number one point of social freeze that I encounter in the world where I'm like, I do not know how to proceed because I see the disparity and I don't know how to connect it, you know, and because I know that we don't have the same communication foundations. Okay, wrap up with some fantasy questions first.

01:05:41:12 - 01:05:54:18

Luna

If we suddenly lived in a world where everyone in their early adulthood had to serve our country as a sex worker for two years, how would you fulfill your civic duty?

01:05:54:20 - 01:06:20:04

kd

I mean, I think I'm emphasizing a point that I've already hit with a hammer multiple times, but like, I think that everybody's leathers would look really good. I think everyone would look really good. Like, I think I would make sure that everyone's like, pristine, frankly. Like my service. Is that like, you are like an A go to your session or you're going to be like the client like, and you are going to look very good.

01:06:20:06 - 01:06:27:19

kd

No mess here. Yes. You're very well, grease. You're cleaned and greased. Courtesy of Katie Diamond.

01:06:27:21 - 01:06:43:11

Luna

Okay, so now Katie Diamond has an unlimited budget to build the perfect play space. Castle Palace, building whatever structure you want for people to come play and have fun. What does it look like? What does it feel like? What are the details?

01:06:43:13 - 01:06:59:21

kd

Okay, this is very like I may as well have the blueprints. Like here's what I mean. Like, I know I shouldn't do for this. All right. So it's a multi-level situation. The first level is like library chill zone. You come in, you check in, you make, you can put your stuff in a locker, you can put yourself in a cubby.

01:07:00:01 - 01:07:22:04

kd

But there is like books all around movies. It's essentially like a library space where you can educate yourself about what's going on. Second level is a dungeon with all the equipment that you can possibly imagine. Like, you know, there's a whole tiled area where people can do this play. There's a wrestling section that even has like, you know, the like, like barriers or whatever.

01:07:22:04 - 01:07:41:08

kd

I obviously don't know a thing about wrestling anyways. Like, you know, there's a whole wrestling section, you know, everything, every fantasy that you can imagine. So that's floor two, third floor is going to be a sort of modular theatrical space where you can play out different fantasies. So for instance, like if you are a, you know, you decided you're a stable boy, like, well, that's going to be where the horses are, are and blah blah blah about like it's where everything's going to be.

01:07:41:08 - 01:08:04:23

kd

So you can pretend that you're in the stable. You can pretend that you're French maid like costume world. Now the roof is a spa. There's hot tubs. There's. Yeah, there's hot tubs, there's a sauna, there's a dry sauna, there's a wet sauna. And that is where everybody can, like, come down and relax, where also there's like a fully functional kitchen where either you can make a communal meal together or someone will be like, I'm the chef for the night and I'm going to cook for everybody.

01:08:05:00 - 01:08:08:01

kd

It's my my four story fantasy world.

01:08:08:03 - 01:08:12:20

Luna

Dude. We have a lot of overlap in our fantasy brains. I fucking like fucking someone.

01:08:12:20 - 01:08:14:18

kd

Give us a fucking grant. Like some. We're working.

01:08:14:18 - 01:08:31:17

Luna

Right? You know, we're working on it. Okay, lastly, if a listener out there is completely not connected yet to any sort of leather community, maybe they're even in a small place where they don't know if they even have one. How would you recommend they start to explore or get involved?

01:08:31:19 - 01:08:49:05

kd

I think that doing a little bit of research on the internet is good. I feel very strongly and I have since the beginning of the internet, and I do even even more now. Being able to be in person with people is a really good idea. It is hard, and I can say this to somebody who was in Portland, Maine.

01:08:49:05 - 01:09:09:02

kd

Like I had to drive to Boston, I had to drive to Providence. Like being able to get to the cities that have the things I think is important. If you want to try to have some entry. There are so many incredible books, honestly. Looking up the Carter Johnson Leather Library, looking at the Leather Archive in Chicago, you'll be able to read some really incredible resources.

01:09:09:07 - 01:09:34:05

kd

But I think beyond the reading and beyond the online community, it's very important to get into meatspace, meatspace. And so with any opportunity possible going to the next closest city, having a friend, having a buddy, being like, let's explore, I think is just one of the things. And that buddy doesn't even need to be kinky. They just need to be somebody who's like, your pleasure is exciting to me, so let's go somewhere.

01:09:34:06 - 01:09:41:18

kd

Yeah. You know, that's like a huge thing. Luckily, there's something called the Eagle. Eagles are leather bars that are actually throughout the country.

01:09:42:00 - 01:09:42:12

Luna

01:09:42:14 - 01:10:03:10

kd

And so you can type in insert city insert area here, Eagle, and you're probably going to find a leather bar somewhere within the area. If you're in a pretty rural area it gets difficult. You know what I mean? It gets lonely. And so that's where the strength of the internet does help. But the community building, we need the somatic experience of being in the same room as our people.

01:10:03:12 - 01:10:22:00

kd

And so being able to find yourself a leather bar, find yourself an eagle. Sometimes people do individual rope groups too. So like that, like has been really interesting, where you can sort of be like, I'm in Knoxville, Tennessee, and everything is really far, far apart. And is there like a public space where people are meeting for something called a munch?

01:10:22:01 - 01:10:34:21

kd

People can have find find a munch somewhere, and then you're meeting at like a diner and you know, there's a safety factor and not just going to, like immediately a dark basement room. And then you can feel out whether you even enjoy the company of some of the people that are going to be in your more local community.

01:10:35:01 - 01:10:43:12

Luna

Beautiful. Okay. Very. Lastly, if people are in the Los Angeles area and want to get tattooed by you, like what's your style, what's your vibe?

01:10:43:14 - 01:11:02:08

kd

Yeah. So I consider myself like a cartoonist. I'm very illustrative. I love drawing animals. I love drawing plants. I'm very obsessed with what I like to say is like macabre but cute. Like, I was describing this to a client the other the other day, like, I'm not Freddy Krueger. I'm more like Tim Burton.

01:11:02:10 - 01:11:04:01

Luna

You know, like, I do like.

01:11:04:03 - 01:11:16:05

kd

Things that are dark, but damn, that's cute. Getting dark. So I've been doing a lot of my versions and representations of death, of love, concepts of like decay, death, but again, like, it's kind of like a death.

01:11:16:07 - 01:11:30:18

Luna

Yeah, lover. You can find Katie Diamond on Instagram at KB diamond at Katie diamond.com spelled out Katie links are in the description below and common ground dot ink. Katie, thank you for being a guest on IG stories.

01:11:30:20 - 01:11:34:10

kd

Thank you. Thanks for having me. It's been a delight. So delightful.