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39 pansexual submissive cis white female, she/her pronouns, partnered 20+ years, ENM for two.

🔗 ROXANNE LINKS |  @roxanne_max_ / makelovenotporn.tv / OF paid / OF free

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00:00:00:12 - 00:00:22:01

Luna

And our guest today is a 39 year old pansexual cis female who has been with her partner for over 20 years, married for 14 and ethically non-monogamous for the last two. Plus, a pastor's kid who spent her formative years in Oklahoma. As an adult, she experienced over a decade of chronic pain, opioids and muscle relaxants before finding a doctor who could offer an accurate diagnosis.

00:00:22:03 - 00:00:42:12

Luna

And in this new era, she has discovered a passion for swinging and experiencing the full range of her emotions. She is into openness, honesty, knowing a partner is turned on blindfold. The butt plugs with tails, her wand hot wiping ass. Worship and cock worship. A clinical pharmacist and only fans creator from Los Angeles. Welcome, Roxanne.

00:00:42:14 - 00:00:44:23

Roxanne

Thank you! I'm so excited to be here.

00:00:45:01 - 00:01:00:21

Luna

I am super excited to have you here so start off, please, by telling us if you had to rate yourself on a shame meter, a sexual shame a meter from 1 to 10 with ten being so full of shame and one not being shame me at all. Where do you fall right now? Today.

00:01:00:23 - 00:01:28:23

Roxanne

Right now? Today, I would say a zero. Amazing. I know this morning actually, we had a fun brunch out with a couple that we see fairly frequently and her best friend from college was in town who actually knows some vanilla best friend, but she knows about the situation and she wanted to introduce us, so it was a lot of fun.

00:01:29:02 - 00:01:44:19

Roxanne

Yeah, I love actually being able to talk to people about it because of course, where I'm from, my family, you know, it's not something that I get to share very often. So that was a lot of fun and brought that shame a meter down.

00:01:44:21 - 00:02:00:12

Luna

I love that so much. And what a good, clear example of how when we get to be witnessed in our full selves or like this, this part of our relational selves that oftentimes, I mean, I get it. I'm like, oh, I'm not supposed to talk about being kinky everywhere. Are hypersexual ever. Okay. Yes. Okay. So here's a question though.

00:02:00:12 - 00:02:06:00

Luna

Are there any context or like people or places where it squiggles up and down for you still?

00:02:06:02 - 00:02:36:13

Roxanne

There are, I would say when I am around family or in kind of those situations of people that I remember from my we call them my migraine years or my headache years. It's not necessarily that shameful, it's just that I feel like I can't be my full self and I feel like they used to know me, but they don't fully know the real me or the new me.

00:02:36:15 - 00:03:09:06

Roxanne

Yeah, yeah. And then there are a few times, you know, where in the whole lifestyle of meeting new people, I think it's more a me thing then of them thing. But I have found that still some of that shame around being really active, you know, in the lifestyle and playing a lot. I do still feel that. I think as a female, you know, there's still a little bit of that stigma in the back of my mind still trying to break through some walls.

00:03:09:07 - 00:03:19:10

Luna

Okay. Let me make sure I understand when you say the word active, do you mean like active sexually? Like in a physical, literal way or like, like slut shaming feelings?

00:03:19:12 - 00:03:26:10

Roxanne

Kind of like, yes, slut shaming feelings. Because we're active in a in a physical.

00:03:26:12 - 00:03:42:21

Luna

I don't know if you missed, like a specific type of shame that was related to like power bottoming or something of like, I can't stop thrusting. Okay. That makes that makes perfect sense. Are you open with your friends about your kind of lifestyle, or is that something that you and your husband keep from, or does it depend on who?

00:03:42:23 - 00:04:07:05

Roxanne

It depends on who. None of my friends, you know, from back home, when we moved to LA. I work from home. Okay. So I never really saw any of my coworkers. Never knew anyone who lived out here previously. Max, my husband, he has a few actor friends out here, and so those friends know or a decent amount of them know.

00:04:07:05 - 00:04:22:07

Roxanne

And and I do get to talk to them about it a little bit. And then my little stepsister knows a little bit. Okay. She knows that we're in the lifestyle. Gotcha. That's about it. Gotcha.

00:04:22:09 - 00:04:31:07

Luna

Okay. Yeah. If you had to say, how do you think societal norms have affected your relationships and personal pleasure?

00:04:31:09 - 00:05:02:11

Roxanne

I think because my husband and I are so open minded, they don't really affect us that much. Since we started dating, I've always been kind of the primary breadwinner of the family, so we kind of push against that social norm. We pushed against. Like my husband. He didn't ask my dad for permission to propose to me because he doesn't feel like I'm property.

00:05:02:13 - 00:05:32:08

Roxanne

Yeah. And yeah, I'm such a daddy's girl. But my dad respected it as well, knowing who I am as a person. So I think we have really pushed back against those. And the headache years. While it was tough, it did kind of keep us from going the normal societal route. I think if we hadn't had that, we would still be living back there.

00:05:32:10 - 00:05:53:18

Roxanne

We would probably have kids, which I'm sure we would have been great parents. But we love our life, you know, we love our life now. And that freedom and all of our love that we would give to kids, go straight into our dogs. They are children. I love.

00:05:53:18 - 00:05:58:17

Luna

That. Plus time for dates to like getting to go to brunch. Exactly.

00:05:58:19 - 00:06:00:11

Roxanne

Oh, yes. Exactly. Can you say.

00:06:00:11 - 00:06:15:10

Luna

A little more about why the headache years kind of maybe contributed to you going against the grain? Was it just by necessity and like maybe some specifics about your relationship, like what did it kind of maybe create an opportunity for or force in your relationship? Yeah, that other one.

00:06:15:12 - 00:06:42:13

Roxanne

I would say mostly the fact that I could take care of myself, but barely. I was able to get through the days of work. I would come home and I was basically a zombie. It took everything out of me to get through the days at work. I was working at a retail pharmacy then and a manager, so lots of unpaid overtime, having to stay late.

00:06:42:15 - 00:07:12:16

Roxanne

All of that. Yeah, just to get through the day and then, yeah, just being a zombie, not really feeling emotions and obviously not feeling like I was in a place where I could take care of a little human. Totally. Yeah. I think it also affected our relationship in that we're very like we're very connected. We spend so much time together, but we can also operate independently.

00:07:12:18 - 00:07:42:15

Roxanne

A lot of the time during those years, Max dated himself. He would just go out on, you know, out to a nice dinner or out to a show, things like that. And there was never any, oh, you're leaving me or any jealousy, you know, anything like that? It was nice for me to have some time where I felt like I didn't need to be on, you know, as much as I had to be sometimes during work.

00:07:42:17 - 00:08:07:02

Roxanne

And the biggest thing was probably just my brain would try to shut off all my feelings, which I've realized later just to block some of the pain. So yeah. So it was a decade of headaches that ranged from like a six to an eight pain scale all the time. Yeah, huge.

00:08:07:04 - 00:08:12:22

Luna

How long has it been since that was since you got the diagnosis that has helped you find some relief.

00:08:13:00 - 00:08:39:20

Roxanne

So it's been about four and a half years, probably. Wow. Somewhere around there. Yeah. And it still took me a long time to believe that it would continue to work. And I had developed a social anxiety because I would plan things, and then I would have to cancel or leave in the middle so that took a while to get over as well.

00:08:39:20 - 00:08:43:16

Roxanne

Of course, Covid doesn't help anyone. Science.

00:08:43:18 - 00:08:52:01

Luna

What a timeline thing. Well, at least maybe no. Everyone else has their own doses of social anxiety. So maybe maybe that like, puts you on a more level playing field.

00:08:52:03 - 00:08:55:07

Roxanne

It definitely does. I've noticed it.

00:08:55:09 - 00:09:09:18

Luna

So on that note, what would you say you need in order to feel excited to connect with a partner intimately? You know, whether it's Max, who you've known for decades or knew people that you want to bring into your relationship or swap with.

00:09:09:20 - 00:09:29:14

Roxanne

I would say they need to engage with personality. You want to know a few things about me? Our are story is very important to me, so I always want to share that we've gotten a little bit better at kind of shortening it.

00:09:29:16 - 00:09:32:02

Luna

Are you going to share it now over full?

00:09:32:04 - 00:09:57:18

Roxanne

I mean, it was kind of what I already said was mainly the headache years and really the feeling like I just was not a human being. I didn't get to experience anything. So after I got my good diagnosis and got off all the upgrades and muscle relaxants within about 2 to 3 months, it still again took me a while.

00:09:57:20 - 00:10:26:08

Roxanne

But then I was able to finally feel things again and we got really into sex. Obviously those ten years affected our sex life a lot. I think a really nice thing about it was any time we did get intimate, we were always able to have a good time. It was mostly the lead up to it and the anxiety leading up to it on and off.

00:10:26:10 - 00:10:54:08

Roxanne

I mean, I could get a really bad attack. I also get migraines on top of the daily headaches. So yeah, I would never know when it might just hit. So oftentimes it was the planning out. But then once we did get intimate, we almost always came together and it was just natural. And every time he would say, okay, so you really enjoyed that, right?

00:10:54:10 - 00:11:29:00

Roxanne

Yes. But at that point it was still very sporadic, fairly mechanical. And at that point I did not have much of a knowledge about sex. I had never really watched porn or anything like that being a PK. Yeah. So I had never really done anything like that. So it was always good during the headache years. It was just we didn't know much and I wasn't able to really fully take it in.

00:11:29:02 - 00:12:14:23

Roxanne

So then after that really encouraged me, once I started feeling feelings again and realized this is what a human being can feel and can do and all of that. So he really, really encouraged me to just lean into that and experience everything that I could, because it had been so long. And then Covid hit. So we were together a lot, and that's when the sex life just ramped up, ramped up so much, and I discovered that I wanted to know everything that I wanted to learn so much.

00:12:15:01 - 00:12:17:08

Roxanne

Yeah. Amazing.

00:12:17:10 - 00:12:31:16

Luna

Can you give us a little sense of what your formative years were like? Like you were a pastor's kid. Did you get sex, ed? Like, what happened leading up to, like, before the headache, like, all of that. What are kind of those background pieces that feel important?

00:12:31:18 - 00:13:06:16

Roxanne

Yeah. So Bible Belt area. My father is a pastor, but he's also one of probably one of the most liberal pastors in the area. So he taught me what it's supposed to be instead of what organized religion has kind of it's been perverted into, I suppose, with hypocrisy and things like that. So I still have a fairly good relationship with Christianity and all of that.

00:13:06:18 - 00:13:37:11

Roxanne

I believe there's a higher spirit or a higher something. That karma, all of that. I don't know how I feel about the other stuff at the moment, but I do still have a very good relationship with my past and my formative years. My father and my stepmother, my first serious boyfriend. After a little while they did sat me down and have an abbreviated sex talk.

00:13:37:13 - 00:14:05:04

Roxanne

Yeah, and my stepmother got me on birth control just in case she didn't want, you know, anything to happen. So I had one serious boyfriend in high school, so I had been with one guy before my husband. So again, that was kind of a, I don't know, limited knowledge. And I was very self-conscious of the whole vulva. All of it.

00:14:05:06 - 00:14:36:11

Roxanne

I had never fingered myself until I was probably 33 or 34 and things like that. So I did have to learn so much, but it excited me. Yeah. So I think that's kind of my my formative years. And I guess being in the organized religion and Christianity, I always like to be a pleaser. And I've noticed that in my sexual life now too.

00:14:36:13 - 00:14:55:07

Roxanne

And so I very much played the part in high school and college. So I was that good, sheltered, you know, religious girl during those times. So again, I think that does give me the healthy relationship with it. Yeah, yeah.

00:14:55:09 - 00:15:03:23

Luna

Did you like, have an enjoyment with being naughty because you were with a boyfriend out of wedlock, I presume?

00:15:04:01 - 00:15:04:21

Roxanne

Yes, I.

00:15:04:21 - 00:15:10:10

Luna

Was, and it sounds like it sounds like you were a pretty good relationship with that. Like it sounds balanced to me. Am I getting that right?

00:15:10:12 - 00:15:32:06

Roxanne

It was. He was probably a little narcissistic looking back at things, but it was very kind of a natural progression into it. I never felt pressured into anything with him. It was a positive relationship with sex at that point.

00:15:32:12 - 00:15:36:05

Luna

Yeah, and I'm not hearing any like self-doubt judgment on your part for doing it or anything.

00:15:36:05 - 00:16:02:12

Roxanne

No, I do specifically remember after the first time I think he he fingered me. I remember writing in my diary like, oh my gosh, I don't know, is this how wrong is this? You know, things like that. But I got over it pretty quickly. Yeah, yeah. So I never really have had any stigma about that until, which is kind of interesting.

00:16:02:12 - 00:16:30:05

Roxanne

But maybe until we started swinging and then having the multiple partners and then going, wait, this, is that okay? I know it's okay for him because you know, guys are praised when that happens a lot of the time. But I think again, on my end, I always felt like I had to qualify it. I had to say, well, we barely had sex for ten years.

00:16:30:05 - 00:16:47:11

Roxanne

I only had one partner before him. I still have that feeling sometimes where I have to say, okay, this is why we do it that much, or this is why we have a full network of people in the lifestyle that we like. So yeah, there's a little bit of that.

00:16:47:14 - 00:17:00:18

Luna

I, you know, I still have my own versions. I mean, literally thousands of people know that I'm an extremely horny person, but I still have like days moments, especially with people where I'm like, oh no, I'm such a slut. They're going to know. And I'm like, it does it?

00:17:00:19 - 00:17:05:22

Roxanne

Who cares? Like what? Who is going to know who's. It's like, nobody cares.

00:17:06:00 - 00:17:21:07

Luna

Okay, so oh, I love okay, so we're getting into the fun parts, but I, I would love to hear specifically when it comes to sex, what are you the best at in your opinion? And how did you get so good at you?

00:17:21:09 - 00:17:49:23

Roxanne

I think I'm really good at blowjob, which I love. I really like to take it slow and like you said at the beginning, I love cock worship. Yeah, I love showing a man that he's desired and that I just want to worship him. And it has a lot to do with the fact of how how good they make me feel about myself.

00:17:50:01 - 00:18:21:05

Roxanne

All of the, you know, the compliments that they give me. And I want them to know that there are people out there that desire them. So I think that would be a really good one. I do think I'm I'm really good at going submissive. Yeah. I think a part of that has to do with my job as well, because I spend all my hours at my job making decisions, approve, deny if I need more information, things like that.

00:18:21:05 - 00:18:41:06

Roxanne

So all day I have to make a certain amount of decisions per hour. So then when I'm off work and Max has gotten used to this, now I don't like to make decisions. Yeah, that is one thing we we always tell new partners is that, you know, I don't like to make decisions. Don't ask me what position I want.

00:18:41:06 - 00:18:54:16

Roxanne

You tell me what position you want because I'm going to love it. So yeah, but there is one time that I want control and that is during the blowjob.

00:18:54:18 - 00:18:57:16

Luna

Oh, yes, I knew that. Actually, I already knew that I was. Yeah.

00:18:57:17 - 00:19:01:05

Roxanne

So nothing more. Okay.

00:19:01:06 - 00:19:04:02

Luna

Is this true with all partners or is it max specific.

00:19:04:08 - 00:19:23:15

Roxanne

So it is true with all partners. It's very max specific. Like every time he knows just not to take control and then he'll experience the best thing. And then I can do trial and error. I can find new things that just drive him crazy, especially since we've known each other for that long.

00:19:23:17 - 00:19:33:14

Luna

Like what? What have you discovered over these years? Because this is how you got so good at blowjobs too, right? Like, just practice with the same person. I bet you can do so many things.

00:19:33:16 - 00:20:03:07

Roxanne

You can't. I guess another, another kind of fun, interesting story about that is that my first boyfriend in high school, he actually cheated on me once, and it was by receiving a blowjob. That was before I had ever given him a blowjob. So at that point I took him back because he felt like awful. But I think it might win him a little bit of manipulation now looking back on it.

00:20:03:09 - 00:20:32:07

Roxanne

But I did tell him that I was never going to give him a blowjob. Then. I was like, okay, we can get back together, but I will never do that for you. Okay? Yeah. So then when Max and I got together, I was self-conscious about it. I didn't feel like I knew what to do. And he. He knew that he took his time with me and let me kind of ease into it.

00:20:32:09 - 00:21:06:08

Roxanne

And I think another thing that has helped me just learn with it on my own and really take in the body language and what they're responding to is that I never watched porn before, so I didn't already really have an idea of how to do it. So I learned very specifically with Max and our understanding of each other after being together for over 20 years and 19 years of that was monogamous.

00:21:06:10 - 00:21:32:18

Roxanne

Only myself and yeah, and we always had great sex, even during the headache years. But it's been really special just learning and honing that skill with him specifically. So yeah, I think that's one of my favorite things to do. Again, with the decision making, I don't want to decide when it will start or stop. So I want to be told that.

00:21:32:18 - 00:21:56:22

Roxanne

But then in the middle, I love to go. I just go with it. I have found some of the younger guys get a little too excited, and then they want a little bit of control, but they're learning and teaching them that it's going to be a really more sensual experience. Yeah, yeah.

00:21:57:00 - 00:22:07:02

Luna

Can you describe the feeling inside that is like the difference between your full submissive self and the part that's like, no, I'm in charge of this blowjob.

00:22:07:04 - 00:22:38:08

Roxanne

I would say in my outward actions or I don't know, my mood doesn't really change during that time, but I do get more focused during that time. The rest of the time when I'm being very submissive, I get very lost in it. We have to explain to some of the people that if you say something to me or ask me to do something at first, I may not even be able to comprehend the words.

00:22:38:08 - 00:22:38:18

Roxanne

If my.

00:22:38:18 - 00:22:55:06

Luna

Audio, my audio processing slows down so much and I'm like, what? Also, though, to be fair, it does. If it's during play half the time, like if I'm like squished between someone's thighs and they're talking to me and my mouth is on a cock, I'm like, what? What are you saying? I can't, you know, so.

00:22:55:12 - 00:22:58:04

Roxanne

Or my, my head's buried in a pillow.

00:22:58:08 - 00:22:59:17

Luna

Exactly, exactly.

00:22:59:18 - 00:23:30:07

Roxanne

Things like that. Yeah. Another thing about me that we've discovered after I was like, okay, let's learn everything about sex, is that I just cum so easily. Oh, and I have actually rolling orgasms where I'm in it for a really long time. Something can take me out of it for a second, like the dogs barking or things like that.

00:23:30:07 - 00:23:32:14

Roxanne

But then I can get right back into it.

00:23:32:16 - 00:23:51:17

Luna

Give us details of that, please. Like, is there a certain type of stimulation that gets you there? Was it a certain mind frame or is it a build like hot? Like tell us about these rolling orgasms, because I just recently experienced my first like, oh, I don't think this is going to stop. And it was like a multiple hole playing situation.

00:23:51:17 - 00:23:55:21

Luna

And I was like, are your hands okay? Are you tired? Plus like.

00:23:55:23 - 00:23:56:21

Roxanne

So what is oh yeah.

00:23:57:03 - 00:24:01:11

Luna

And is it the same for you? Like it's a different can they happen and tell you tell us.

00:24:01:13 - 00:24:15:20

Roxanne

They can happen pretty much any time. Everything is also very mental for me. So I have had mental, just like thigh clenching orgasms.

00:24:16:01 - 00:24:16:12

Luna

Okay.

00:24:16:15 - 00:24:59:07

Roxanne

Yes. Cool. And most specifically, usually it's during I do orgasm while giving blowjobs and get very wet. During that time I might start. I would say that's a little bit more rare. Is me really starting then. But otherwise it's any type of touch or contact or really sexy moment. So Max and I also experience conversion. So when he's being pleased or pleasing another woman that excites me and I feel that pleasure and vice versa.

00:24:59:09 - 00:25:14:21

Roxanne

So that has really helped with like how much we love the hot wife thing. Yeah we like to joke that sometimes I have to call mercy simply because my muscles have just been contracting for so long.

00:25:14:21 - 00:25:22:18

Luna

So I was going to ask about that. That's like do get sore when I mentioned or ask. It's so sore from clenching.

00:25:22:19 - 00:25:51:18

Roxanne

Yeah, yeah, I don't think I usually register that one. Yeah I usually registered more feet twitching to sometimes that happens. My feet twitch. A lot of the times it's my legs or my abs, my stomach because I'm I contract my whole body together. That was something that kind of took us a little while to get used to, because then afterwards I'll still go.

00:25:51:23 - 00:26:28:13

Roxanne

I might still be going with no stimulation for a while or, you know, the cum dripping out anything. It could be anything like that that just keeps me going. And then once I'm done, I'm kind of just in a haze for quite a while. Yeah. So that has been interesting getting used to and letting new partners know just how sensitive I am, and the fact that I won't be very vocal while I'm coming because I'm I'm usually coming.

00:26:28:15 - 00:26:34:07

Roxanne

I wouldn't shut up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just feel like, whoa.

00:26:34:09 - 00:26:43:13

Luna

That's so intense. So this is this orgasmic quality is a post headache years discovery. Or was it there before?

00:26:43:15 - 00:27:12:00

Roxanne

I would say before I had too many things that were taking me out of it mentally in that time, I would say I always orgasm any time, but it was more of a one orgasm thing. And oftentimes Max and I would even orgasm together during the headache years. But then post headache years, it became something where I just couldn't believe it.

00:27:12:00 - 00:27:48:05

Roxanne

I was just coming so much. At first I was like, what is? What is going on? Why? Why do I get so foggy afterwards? Why do I not understand things during you know why? Why is it that I don't understand words during. And then it took us a little while, but then we realized. And then Max has really understood it because he just thinks, oh my gosh, if I came that much, you know, if I was just perpetually coming, he doesn't think he could handle it.

00:27:48:05 - 00:28:06:06

Roxanne

And yeah, at one point I'm sure I, I couldn't have either. But a lot of his encouragement and his delight at it, you know, he loves it. That's really helped me just embrace it and just allow it to take me over during those times.

00:28:06:08 - 00:28:21:11

Luna

Wow, what a cool surrender. It also feels like like some sort of like karmic balance for like years and years of pain and deep discomfort every day, like a 6 to 8 is no joke. Like I'm sure there are days with bigger spikes.

00:28:21:13 - 00:28:47:12

Roxanne

Yes, I think that also helps with honestly, the shame o meter for me and for both of us and the fact that we do go out and, you know, get out there a lot. We do because we spent ten years not being able to make decisions for our own life. Yeah. And he stuck with me. He was so patient with me during those years.

00:28:47:13 - 00:29:15:00

Roxanne

Of course, he wished that he could just take care of it and make doesn't go away for me. We also, during those years did take couples counseling after he asked for an open marriage. Of course, at that time I wasn't as sexually woke. I was, and so I couldn't hear that at that time. So I had knocked it down completely.

00:29:15:02 - 00:29:42:18

Roxanne

But we did. We did couples counseling, and we learned how to communicate how he could maybe not take it as rejection. When I turned down, it was more of a me thing. Not that I didn't desire him. It was just me physically thing. Yeah. So yeah, we learned that a lot as well during those years. So then after we heard one of your podcast episodes, we.

00:29:42:21 - 00:30:14:09

Roxanne

Yeah, we found out about. So on a trip back from Vegas, I said, let's just go ahead and do it, because that's when I wanted to learn. Well, I still do want to learn everything there is to know about sex. Me too. Yeah. So at that point, I suggested to him that we should sign up. In the back of my head, I knew that I would have to be the one to suggest it, since I had shot down his idea of an open marriage in the past.

00:30:14:11 - 00:30:30:02

Roxanne

So I think that's kind of that also helped us understand that we were both into it and into exploring. And, but there were also speed bumps along the way with anything. Absolutely.

00:30:30:04 - 00:30:48:10

Luna

So tell us now, those are all so many things that you have learned that make you awesome at sex. Is there a specific, like helpful sex related lesson that you have learned that has, like shifted your sex life in a meaningful way or your relationship to sex? Some aspect of sex?

00:30:48:12 - 00:31:22:08

Roxanne

I think there are a couple. One of the first ones was our very first threesome that we had with a woman before. Of course, I was very nervous as as you are meeting someone new, especially after you haven't dated anyone for 19 years. So I learned in that experience how important it is for me personally to tell our story during the build up.

00:31:22:08 - 00:31:57:22

Roxanne

Then during that experience, I wanted to tell the whole story. When I got to the end of it and the positive. Once the headaches were resolved, I started crying. Just, you know, before our threesome when we were still talking. And so Max had to jump in and say, no, these are happy tears. These are very happy tears. Yes, I do remember that immediately after that, after the tears had stopped, I wanted to show her slightly.

00:31:57:22 - 00:32:26:04

Roxanne

I wanted to show her my, scar from one of the surgeries I had during the headache years. So it was just shirt off. Okay, I'm ready to go. So that was one of the things in the lifestyle that just taught me something right away. I took another one. Was one of the less desirable experiences. It really helped me learn.

00:32:26:06 - 00:33:02:15

Roxanne

Even though I do go so submissive, I have to keep myself and what I'm feeling. I have to be tuned into that still. Because, you know, Max doesn't always know how I feel. We've we've learned even more as we go that we are so aligned and we, we are into very much the same things. But during that time, I was bitten a few different places and we had already laid the ground rules that there's no pain.

00:33:02:17 - 00:33:16:11

Roxanne

Okay, I love spanking, but outside of that, no pain. And that's really especially because of the medication I have to take for my headaches. That makes it much easier for me to bleed. Hurt. Not bleed, but bruise.

00:33:16:13 - 00:33:17:16

Luna

Oh, shit.

00:33:17:16 - 00:33:24:18

Roxanne

Yeah, yeah. And I've got translucent skins. Yeah.

00:33:24:20 - 00:33:50:05

Roxanne

So they. Yeah, they show up. And it was a biting situation where it was kind of soft and then a little bit harder, a little bit harder. And then the last one was just really hard. I did have very significant bruises for about two and a half weeks that did really mess with my brain. Yeah, it messed with my brain for a while.

00:33:50:05 - 00:34:09:02

Roxanne

And and we've experienced a few different things from that. But we have learned so much. So that's why I even say it's just one of those less desirable experiences. Yeah, but we take those as such a learning experience for us. Absolutely.

00:34:09:04 - 00:34:28:04

Luna

I would love to hear a little bit about what it was like to learn. Oh my gosh, I'm into this lifestyle, you know, because I imagine it sounds like your first experience was with one other female partner. And then you've done a lot of swapping as well, right? That's pretty much the makeups we have.

00:34:28:04 - 00:34:55:22

Roxanne

So first, it was a threesome with a woman. I believe the next experience we had was same room with a couple. They were brand new. And then I think our third experience was kind of a booty call, a couple swap. Okay. I mean, it was something where I had connected with the guy earlier in the day, and they were really anxious and excited to experience the swap.

00:34:55:22 - 00:35:27:04

Roxanne

They had tried a couple times. We had not yet tried, but we were both ready for it. We were both excited about it, so we've had kind of the full gamut. We've been the sex clubs as well, but for the most part we just learn from every experience and the hot wife thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, the last male female male was something that we didn't think we would really be into.

00:35:27:05 - 00:35:52:17

Roxanne

We hadn't really considered it. We went into it. I think how a lot of couples go into it, which is first it was maybe just a woman, you know, a threesome with a woman. And then we got more comfortable with a couple swapped, and we did work for that fairly early on, that it took us a while to really think about the possibility of having a single male come in.

00:35:52:19 - 00:36:26:05

Roxanne

In that situation, Max really learned that he enjoys seeing another man desire me, and I love that. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. And the first couple times he participated, so it was a true male, female male. Then we even gotten to he went into a phase where he really just wanted to watch. So he would lay on the bed, typically closed, and he would just watch my face kind of hold my hand sometimes during.

00:36:26:05 - 00:36:41:11

Roxanne

And the fun thing is, is he learned through that what a good bull or a good guest is to where he has been able to do that separately as well. Now. Cool.

00:36:41:16 - 00:36:47:09

Luna

Oh well, you say, what are your opinions of what makes a good guest star in your relationship?

00:36:47:11 - 00:37:24:21

Roxanne

I would say someone who really appreciates our relationship together. Yeah, that is something that we especially like to share with people too, because we feel so lucky that we found each other so young and we've just grown together through all these years. So that's something also, we've had a few single males where they kind of encourage Max to join, but then they don't think about positions or things where everyone can be involved.

00:37:24:23 - 00:37:57:03

Roxanne

Right? So yeah, and definitely listening to the husband, if he suggests something like a position we're in, sometimes you know, I guess the single guy has just been so focused on what he's doing in that moment. Another thing that I really enjoy about having guests and especially singles, is when they really just appreciate the fact that Max wants to share me.

00:37:57:05 - 00:38:05:04

Roxanne

He wants other people to experience me. So that's been so much fun. Yeah.

00:38:05:06 - 00:38:23:09

Luna

I feel like that's a really special thing, especially because I have a sense that I can always feel it if the other person doing air quotes really means it, but it's like that energy when the partner really does have that compression, and you can sense that there's like, you know, always joy happening, that's really nice.

00:38:23:11 - 00:38:51:15

Roxanne

I would say that kind of plays into 1 or 2 of the speed bumps that we've had as well. Okay. Is being able to fully accept that, oh, he really means it when he's saying that, not oh, he thinks that's what I want to hear, you know, things like that. And when we first got into the lifestyle, I have such a neurotic, overthinking brain.

00:38:51:17 - 00:39:21:10

Roxanne

Also very, very quirky. All of that to where I knew that if I was not in it 100%, that I would second guess every decision that I made. So luckily, that was something that I was able to recognize before we even did it. And so we went into it with that in mind. Yeah, of course, then we had to figure out exactly what each other's 100% was.

00:39:21:12 - 00:39:45:12

Roxanne

But all of those speed bumps have really just helped our relationship. We've learned how to talk so openly with each other, and again, how to really believe that what the person is saying is not just what they're saying because they want you to hear it, it's that they are on that same page with you. So that's been a lot of learning.

00:39:45:14 - 00:40:05:01

Luna

Yeah. And it sounds like it's really based off of years and years of trust and then ongoing communication. Like one of the things that I think is so beautiful about your relationship is like, yes, you've been together for two decades, but you're also making an effort to get to know, like you said, the current you, you know, not the you of a long time ago.

00:40:05:01 - 00:40:17:19

Luna

And that's something that I've read about and seen happen where we use her Ristic to make the short cuts of like, oh, I already know you. And we get on curious about each other and it sounds like you are evolving together in some really juicy ways.

00:40:17:23 - 00:40:18:22

Roxanne

Yes. I do want.

00:40:18:22 - 00:40:33:22

Luna

To ask you what what's it like to realize that you were not straight like, was that anything for you as a pastor's kid, as an Oklahoma origin situation? Because you seem pretty chill and like, open about all the swapping and the threesomes in the ladies and everything.

00:40:34:00 - 00:40:52:08

Roxanne

I would say I am now. Yeah. When we first started with the couple swaps and and the threesome with a woman, I just knew that I wouldn't know how I felt in the moment, you know, before it first happened. Yeah.

00:40:52:08 - 00:40:53:20

Luna

We don't know till we know.

00:40:53:22 - 00:41:27:10

Roxanne

Yeah. So I mean, I guess I was very honest about that upfront was I've never been with a woman, so I don't know how I'll react. I think since then I've realized even more that it's just it's personal cities that attract me. So it could be a woman. It could be a man. I'm definitely still less confident when it comes to women, and my submissiveness really comes into play with that as well.

00:41:27:12 - 00:41:54:17

Roxanne

I almost never make the first move. I met with a woman. Yeah, I mean, I, I guess I almost never make the first move with a man either with that submissiveness. But Max has said this once he started doing a few things with guys, was that it wasn't a big thing. You know, once he tried it, he was like, okay, the world didn't turn upside down.

00:41:54:19 - 00:42:11:16

Roxanne

It wasn't a huge thing. So I would definitely say my typical attraction is still very much men, just on a regular scale. I've never dated a woman alone or been with a woman alone. I think it would just have to be the right woman.

00:42:11:19 - 00:42:12:16

Luna

Yeah, which.

00:42:12:18 - 00:42:23:12

Roxanne

I just haven't experienced that much. And honestly, it's harder to find women. And then all the single males who are ready.

00:42:23:13 - 00:42:54:21

Luna

I relate to, I'm like, it's like I have to bat away dudes with women I like have so much aspiration and it's more social skills to figure out, you know, and so I, so I make my niche and I, you know, I do have my flirt to my girlfriends and I'm getting better at talking, but I really relate to a lot of like you said, I would love to hear a stand out story from any point of your sexual evolution about a moment where your desire was piqued, like you were aroused or intrigued or something.

00:42:54:21 - 00:42:58:03

Luna

And you know how how did that anticipation hope live in your body? Would it.

00:42:58:03 - 00:43:35:06

Roxanne

Lead to, oh, one that actually really comes to mind was, last night? Oh gosh, why not fresh? It is actually a couple that we've seen several times before, but it really set in last night for all of us that every time we get together, it's better and better and better. That's so hard. Yeah. And they're they're very open and they like to be kind of slutty sluts like we do.

00:43:35:08 - 00:44:08:13

Roxanne

And so we realized that we went a couple rounds, we went out and we had dinner, and then we came back and chatting before the third round, we realized that the other man also has started becoming open with playing with other men. And we hadn't brought it up with Max yet that he does, mostly because it was still kind of a fairly new thing the last time we had seen them.

00:44:08:13 - 00:44:36:12

Roxanne

And then there's still some of that. We're just not sure how other people are going to react. Yeah. So then the third round, we were all excited to throw that in there as well. And I know another part of that that Max really enjoys is when the other woman really wants to see it. She really wants to see their guy with another guy.

00:44:36:14 - 00:45:01:03

Roxanne

And that's something that I have always wanted to see, but never had any pressure towards Max to do it. That was something that like took him a little longer to realize and to, I guess, just really be interested in after he realized just how sexy all of the moments are, you know, and how you see it can be.

00:45:01:05 - 00:45:11:01

Roxanne

Yes, absolutely. Yeah. To where now we often refer to it as a buffet of body parts. Yeah.

00:45:11:03 - 00:45:18:11

Luna

Yeah. Because imagine if like, you had to avoid part of the buffet, you know, like and you're like, yeah, you're not actually allergic. You could just touch it. I'm okay.

00:45:18:13 - 00:45:27:20

Roxanne

Yeah. Yeah. So and then again I'm getting there with women. It's a longer process I would say.

00:45:27:22 - 00:45:48:13

Luna

Yeah. Getting to know yourself, getting to know that. Yeah it's confidence building I think is part of it, at least for me. You know, when something is new and unfamiliar. Yeah. I mean I definitely remember even turning down sex that I really wanted even with all the rejection I was getting because I didn't feel necessarily like good enough air quotes again to engage because I was like, I don't really know.

00:45:48:15 - 00:46:05:17

Luna

Here's a question for you, my submissive friend. I imagine if I were, I feel like we maybe have a similar no, I'm projecting all my submissive just to be honest about it. So I, in a scenario, am like if I have a partner already who I'm submissive to, I'm like, I put myself at the bottom of the pack.

00:46:05:17 - 00:46:25:13

Luna

I love to be the most submissive person, like the least important person in the pile. Like I'm the most important by being the least important. That's kind of like a meditation teaching on ego. I'm like, I'm the worst. I'll serve you all. I imagine that Max is like your ultimate authority in a group situation. Do you also serve the others, or how do you kind of organize it in your head, if at all?

00:46:25:15 - 00:46:59:08

Roxanne

He's my safe space for submissiveness, but his dominance is never a you do this to her. To him, it's always, hey, you guys could do this. The way that I think about it in my head, of course I'm still learning all the terms. Yeah, everything. But maybe more of a pleasure. Dom. Sub relationship or possibly even a little bit of.

00:46:59:10 - 00:47:07:02

Roxanne

I don't want to say fully like, baby girl type thing, but kind of more of a caring.

00:47:07:02 - 00:47:07:22

Luna

The nurturing.

00:47:07:22 - 00:47:09:15

Roxanne

Submissive, nurturing.

00:47:09:15 - 00:47:13:03

Luna

I definitely pick that up from talking to you. Yeah, definitely.

00:47:13:05 - 00:47:33:05

Roxanne

And with Max, it's always, I want to be a good girl. Yeah, yeah. So when they do suggest something, I know it's because they consider it's either going to be really pleasurable for me or the other person or both. So I always take it as a yes, let's try it.

00:47:33:07 - 00:47:44:18

Luna

Yeah. No, I really, really I'm like I'm like, you have an idea. I love ideas, I usually feel like I'm pushing my ideas on people. I will do your idea. And then I'm like, all right, calm down and just play. Okay.

00:47:44:20 - 00:48:10:01

Roxanne

I think for me, that part is a little bit opposite. Just because of my I just don't know what's possible out there. Yeah. And that's another reason why we've loved listening to your podcast, is hearing things that people have tried. And wait, oh my gosh, that's something I really might be into. You know, I'm so relatable.

00:48:10:01 - 00:48:15:19

Luna

How did my bucket list get over 600 items long? Well, lots of muses.

00:48:15:21 - 00:48:18:12

Roxanne

Sounds of music.

00:48:18:14 - 00:48:35:18

Luna

Okay, so could you tell us a moment that you maybe have experienced of. And this can be like just you and one other partner, or it could be a group thing. You tell us what I would love to hear a moment that was a hot, explicit or clear in some way, shape or form does actually warrant explicit mutual.

00:48:35:18 - 00:48:40:06

Luna

Yes. That led to something that was just such a turn on or a great scenario.

00:48:40:08 - 00:49:24:17

Roxanne

I think a few of the first times, really that Max played with a guy. It's mostly been in couples swaps. There have been a few times and like a male, female, male where it's happened as well. So I remember one of the first times when a male, female, male, when he actually bottomed for a little while and you know, he was bent over and I just laid kind of right in front of him, and I was just kind of stroking his arms and really being there for him because it took me a while to get used to that as well, and it takes some training.

00:49:24:17 - 00:49:51:03

Roxanne

So I really enjoyed that part. And we were all just like, yes, let's try it, let's try it all. Let's try anything that anyone wants to. I think another thing that comes to mind with that is just kind of more of a general, not a specific thing, but we like to ask people what it is that they desire or their fantasies, things like that.

00:49:51:03 - 00:50:11:08

Roxanne

And then we I absolutely love fulfilling fantasies and having first, you know, oftentimes anybody who's in that situation will say, oh my gosh, this is a first for me. And then Max and I just get so excited in it. That's exciting. That is so and.

00:50:11:10 - 00:50:16:08

Luna

This seems like it could be a good place to talk about. Ask worship what you like.

00:50:16:14 - 00:50:17:09

Roxanne

Yes.

00:50:17:11 - 00:50:24:19

Luna

What do you like about it? Like what? Directions? Giving? Receiving? What do you do? What is your worship of asses like?

00:50:24:21 - 00:50:55:21

Roxanne

So it has almost always been receiving. Every once in a while I'll worship a woman's ass for a second. Okay? But usually in those situations there's at least one other guy. If not two, and they would love to worship both of ours side by side. Ooh. That's hard. That's such a good thing. Yes. And with that, sometimes that's really are only foreplay.

00:50:55:23 - 00:51:10:05

Roxanne

Besides like a few other things. But we've noticed that it gets me. So what? Amazing, amazing. Just being in that situation. Yeah. And so then I'm ready to go.

00:51:10:06 - 00:51:16:17

Luna

Is it mostly like like, do you also enjoy receiving anal penetration or is it most of like tongues licking, massaging?

00:51:16:19 - 00:51:48:13

Roxanne

I'd probably say what we kind of consider more the ass worship is the massaging. Okay. Making it jiggle. A little bit of spanking in there. I would say that's what we kind of consider the time of ass worship. Otherwise we just consider anal. But yes, I do love anal. I have noticed or realized within, I don't know, maybe the past couple of days that I just need to ask more for it or bring it up.

00:51:48:19 - 00:52:00:07

Luna

I'm getting better at asking too. It's magic. It's so easy when you just ask for it, like you said. Like we want to fulfill fantasies. I like fulfilling fantasies. I forget other people want to fulfill my fantasies and I can just ask.

00:52:00:08 - 00:52:28:17

Roxanne

Yes, yes. And that's another thing where communication really helps, because oftentimes I'll just say it like when we're kind of in the middle of playing like, hey, do you wanna fuck my ass? And a lot of the time at that point he is just loving my pussy and love being in there, which then I'm like, oh, thank you.

00:52:28:17 - 00:52:55:02

Roxanne

That's a great compliment. I'll take it. Yeah. Or that turns me on as well. So actually, just a day or two ago, Max brought up, hey, it might be awesome if you mention that ahead of time, you know, so that he did have that in his mind and was ready for that a little bit more. Yeah. So constantly learning,

00:52:55:04 - 00:53:11:03

Luna

I mean, that's a good point, right. Preparation on both sides. Like sometimes I'm like, if you just let me get ready, then I could feel, You know, like I'm like, give me, give me more of a heads up. And I guess it does. Yeah. It goes both ways in terms of like, bringing new people into your partnership group play stuff.

00:53:11:03 - 00:53:17:20

Luna

What do you need to feel safe and secure, health and safety wise? How did those conversations unfold for you?

00:53:17:22 - 00:53:57:11

Roxanne

We have gotten much better about, I would say, having that conversation well ahead of time very recently. I think, because we've brought in some more single males that I've met on OnlyFans or different areas when they really are able to show their personality and be open about it and listen to our story, things like that. It has to be something where you, you keep me engaged in it.

00:53:57:13 - 00:54:33:10

Roxanne

So that's important. And now with that, we've just gotten better about asking very soon before, okay, testing, when have you been tested last? Partners after that, just for everyone to feel safe. I mean, in the two years we have contracted the few things, you know, easy things to get rid of, luckily. But in those situations, we have learned it's best to ask before, and we have increased our testing because we like to stay active.

00:54:33:10 - 00:55:07:04

Roxanne

So we get tested once a month, and then we are very open to condom. Let's play as long as it has been communicated and asked before time and the testing lines, ups, things like that. And then I would say, like with my submissiveness, my comfort is mostly max. So we do both know that sometimes I can get so submissive that it's almost like I'm leaving my body, right?

00:55:07:09 - 00:55:26:06

Roxanne

Yeah. And I'm not fully there to recognize what all is going on. But we've learned each other's boundaries so well. Now that I do almost feel like I can let go a little bit more as long as he's there with me. Wow. No pressure Max. Yeah.

00:55:26:08 - 00:55:34:18

Luna

But it but I have heard that especially from couples who are, you know, deep in trust with each other and have that dynamic in it. You know, it sounds like you guys do.

00:55:34:19 - 00:56:02:22

Roxanne

And now saying that I have now played with males separately, which also is something we never thought we would do at the beginning. Yeah, but it's pretty hot now. There are a few times where Max will go see a woman and I will have a male over. Oh yeah. And then we talk about it afterwards and we have the reclaiming, which is so much fun.

00:56:02:23 - 00:56:04:15

Roxanne

No.

00:56:04:17 - 00:56:12:11

Luna

That's okay. I was going to ask you about that. Oh okay. Okay. What do you need an A reclaiming or is it just free flow or like how does it feel to you?

00:56:12:12 - 00:56:41:17

Roxanne

I would say it's very free flowing for us. Oftentimes if it's something during the experience that one of us just really realized that we like, I love the fact that I can learn a few more things, you know, in an experience, and then Max and I can perfect it together and really experiment. And yes, that's it.

00:56:41:19 - 00:56:57:18

Luna

Okay, on that note, what does Nourishing Connection look like for you? It could be elements or a moment that encapsulates it, but I would just love to hear about, you know, especially since nurturing is such an important part of your connections. What is nourishing connection?

00:56:57:20 - 00:57:25:22

Roxanne

I would say in that area, I like to be a little bit more of a giver with the nurturing and caring. I love making sure that the other person feels these things that I feel from them, whether it's really like they've I mean, it may not be that they've done anything big to make me feel that way, but I want to reciprocate that.

00:57:25:22 - 00:57:50:17

Roxanne

And I know that there are a lot of guys who have experienced not great relationships where someone was not very supportive or, you know, things like that. So I would say that's a little bit more of my view on it is that I am wanting to provide that, for the others.

00:57:50:19 - 00:57:55:00

Luna

I see, so it's nourishing for you to nourish others.

00:57:55:02 - 00:57:56:00

Roxanne

Yes.

00:57:56:02 - 00:58:13:23

Luna

I really relate to that. What about. Okay, let me give you it. Let me give you a challenge question, because I think this is something that all of us could perhaps allow more of, maybe not worked on. I don't want to create more work for us. But you know what? If what if it is full receiving mode? What does full receiving mode only nourishment look like?

00:58:14:03 - 00:58:16:01

Luna

For Roxann?

00:58:16:03 - 00:58:56:23

Roxanne

You know, I think maybe the reason that I, I haven't really relaxed into that in the new the new Roxann, is that I feel like I needed so much of that during my headache year. I also feel like I wanted to give that during those years, it just it was very hard for me. I mean, I was not always very supportive of him, but I think it was harder on him to just be there for me all of the time, not fully understanding what I was going through.

00:58:57:01 - 00:59:21:13

Roxanne

But he was so patient. It really did hit a time where I feel like he understood so much more of what I was going through. I had all this compassion and nurturing and nourishment that I wanted to give during those years. And so now I'm like, yes, let me give it all, you know? Yeah, every everyone deserves it.

00:59:21:15 - 00:59:30:21

Luna

I'm imagining you as like a fountain or a sprinkler of nourishment, maybe a hose for Max, and then you get a sprinkler head and you're.

00:59:30:23 - 00:59:36:15

Roxanne

That perfect, that variable sums it up.

00:59:36:17 - 00:59:48:13

Luna

Okay, so tell us, like, what else do we need to know about Roxana to have kind of a full ish overview of your sexual self and or what's on your bucket list?

00:59:48:15 - 01:00:01:17

Roxanne

Okay. I think I do have one very specific bucket list item that we've talked about and I've been scheduling with adults. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty.

01:00:01:17 - 01:00:04:15

Luna

Difficult. We got to trust the divine timing.

01:00:04:17 - 01:00:13:19

Roxanne

We do. So for me, I'm really excited to have, male, male, male, female.

01:00:13:21 - 01:00:16:21

Luna

Oh, I'm excited for you. Yes. And I want that too.

01:00:16:22 - 01:00:20:01

Roxanne

Yes. Yeah, yeah.

01:00:20:06 - 01:00:22:07

Luna

Tell us more. What details? What are the fantasies?

01:00:22:12 - 01:00:55:00

Roxanne

Yeah, I'm very much into that. It would be my guys like guys that we've had experiences with before. I want it to be more sensual. I feel like that is more in my style bed is that sensuality and connection. So I really want it to be something like that. And Max is excited about me being spoiled by those several guys.

01:00:55:01 - 01:01:21:22

Roxanne

So yeah, yeah. So another thing we've talked about very recently and had planned but scheduling again got no. Yeah. Was he really wanted to take me on a Vegas trip with my current favorite bull. So yeah, the three of us go on a Vegas trip and he just wanted me to feel so special walking in Vegas with a guy on each arm.

01:01:21:22 - 01:01:24:21

Roxanne

And I love that.

01:01:24:23 - 01:01:30:11

Luna

Do you, like, walk around outside? Like, just in the general population with a guy on each arm? Have you done that? Yeah, I haven't.

01:01:30:13 - 01:01:57:14

Roxanne

I have not done it yet. I will say to, to a little bit of a degree. Yeah. Just because we always meet with people in public first before they come back to our place, we have a specific restaurant that we usually always go to because it's right down the street walking distance. Yes. It's perfect. I mean, we think the staff might have at night.

01:01:57:16 - 01:01:58:19

Roxanne

01:01:58:21 - 01:02:10:20

Luna

I definitely remember being a bartender and, and we would have theories about people who would bring people over. So I would be very certain if they're paying attention.

01:02:10:22 - 01:02:30:07

Roxanne

Yeah. I think the helpful thing for us is that we are out here in California where we don't have any family. I don't see any of my work people here of the work people that Max knows, do know or know a little bit about it.

01:02:30:12 - 01:02:38:22

Luna

But creative types, they expect us to have all the partners anyway. They know we're there, at least not surprised usually.

01:02:38:22 - 01:03:09:23

Roxanne

So I think that's just something that makes it even a little bit more exciting for us, because it isn't something that has really any anxiety around it for us. And I think to answer the first thing that popped into my head on your other question, and that was just now that we've started the only fans and different things where we're sharing that something that I've realized that I just love.

01:03:09:23 - 01:03:39:13

Roxanne

I love sharing my personality. They're cool. Yeah. And little cute things. I like to do that because if you're someone who doesn't like someone who's quirky and a little weird and but also doesn't mind showing those moments, yes. Which we usually do keep those moments and videos that we make. We want it all to feel very real and in the moment.

01:03:39:15 - 01:03:46:18

Roxanne

So that's something where I've developed such a confidence that I have never had in my life.

01:03:46:19 - 01:03:56:08

Luna

That's awesome. I was going to actually ask, like, what? When was the moment? Or you're like, yes, and only fans like, what kind of like got you to that point?

01:03:56:10 - 01:04:02:14

Roxanne

I was more ready for it than Max was when we first started.

01:04:02:18 - 01:04:08:14

Luna

Really, you just knew you were like, I think this is going to be my vibe. Oh that's hot.

01:04:08:14 - 01:04:32:09

Roxanne

I love that it was something also that a long time ago, before any even inkling of what we would be doing now, every once in a while we wanted to maybe do a little video, so we could see what it was about and love that, love that. But every time we did during that time, I was just like, oh, but look at that.

01:04:32:09 - 01:05:07:00

Roxanne

I look gross here. And it kind of turned into just he didn't want to do it anymore because I never felt confident about it. Right. So during those times, even almost just regular pictures of me out and about, I would be like, no, we don't need a picture of just me with this or things like that. So then once I started realizing that other guys do find me attractive, yeah, they do.

01:05:07:02 - 01:05:36:05

Roxanne

It was something I really never knew. Really. Yeah, I did have that for so much of my life and then I started realizing, you know, I got the compliments. I got the guys who were ready to go. I wanted to meet up so bad. And that also gave me the confidence for us to start taking the pictures and doing the videos.

01:05:36:07 - 01:06:17:14

Roxanne

And it took on pretty quickly that I started really enjoying it. And those were the times when I was like, oh my gosh, I have this newfound confidence. I'm still also this person who did like a 180 with my personality and just my life in general. It's completely different. So with that, I've gotten a lot more comfortable. And then I think another thing that really had me wanting to start an OnlyFans was kind of the swinging and the group play aspect of our situation, because it is still fairly taboo.

01:06:17:15 - 01:06:19:00

Roxanne

I would say.

01:06:19:01 - 01:06:21:11

Luna

We're being the change we want to see. We're doing.

01:06:21:11 - 01:06:48:19

Roxanne

It. Yeah. Yes. So but yeah, so I love sharing that and I love sharing that. It can really work in a marriage, as long as you're both willing to put the work into it and be fully honest with each other. And I again, I love just sharing our relationship because we are so connected and feel incredibly lucky about that.

01:06:48:21 - 01:06:52:03

Roxanne

That awesome. Okay, so.

01:06:52:04 - 01:07:03:11

Luna

Then you're the perfect person to ask because you have this background of love and connection. What do you think we need to make the world a more connected, loving, sexy place?

01:07:03:12 - 01:07:04:19

Roxanne

Oh.

01:07:04:21 - 01:07:09:11

Luna

We don't have to solve it tonight. But I want to hear you.

01:07:09:13 - 01:07:42:02

Roxanne

I guess I do feel like, of course, we're getting closer and closer. And some of that we've seen mostly with the male male contact. There are quite a few guys and couples that never expressed wanting to experiment or anything like that. But then once Max kind of started talking about the things that he's done so far, the guys are being more willing to try it out.

01:07:42:04 - 01:08:13:01

Roxanne

And I think another thing with us is we're very non-threatening. We are very flexible. We never have any expectations for an experience to where people do, luckily feel really comfortable with us and open up to us fairly quickly. We've been a lot of couples first, so yeah, Shepard's.

01:08:13:03 - 01:08:14:12

Luna

That's beautiful.

01:08:14:13 - 01:08:25:12

Roxanne

Yeah, and I love sharing that. And we can tell pretty quickly if they're a couple where maybe one of them is more into it, the other one's more hesitant.

01:08:25:14 - 01:08:26:15

Luna

What do you do?

01:08:26:17 - 01:09:15:02

Roxanne

We've called off a few like, okay, okay, you know, and maybe we can have another coffee date or whatnot to see where they are. But then there are other times where we're just like, okay, that's it. They're not totally ready for this yet. And we've voiced that a few times to couples, but I think probably some of the openness around it and not feeling the same would be great if in more sexual or group experiences, if it isn't so much as you're going to be a body here, you know, we've had several bulls who were very surprised with us.

01:09:15:07 - 01:09:27:05

Roxanne

We've heard stories where bulls often times are just brought in, and they're expected to get hard. When they're told to get hard, they're like, really? Do you like.

01:09:27:07 - 01:09:29:13

Luna

Are they getting hired on said, no, this is just for.

01:09:29:13 - 01:09:34:05

Roxanne

Fun. Like what? Yes. Just for fun. Yeah.

01:09:34:06 - 01:09:50:04

Luna

It's very interesting. Like without a specific like it's one thing if that's your kink, that's your dynamic. You've set it up that way. But for that to be the baseline, expect it. So wait, so am I understanding correctly the part that's unique about you and Max are that you're creating a personal connection with the bull.

01:09:50:06 - 01:10:20:05

Roxanne

Yes. We want him to feel comfortable. Yeah. We don't have any expectations. There's still very much that stigma with a guy. If he isn't able to get hard, or it's just nervous in this situation and doesn't perform the way he wished he had. And so I love telling them like, no, the other things that you did. Yeah, I mean, I was coming the entire time.

01:10:20:07 - 01:10:37:22

Roxanne

Yes. And then we've had some guys who after that they were very appreciative of, you know, my understanding about that, because I know if I had to try to make sure my body did something specific, it could be a train wreck for sure.

01:10:37:22 - 01:10:59:13

Luna

For sure. Okay. So on that note, what I was going to say is, as a fellow cock worshiper do, you're not also like a soft cock. I love playing with a soft cock and like and without expectation. But it's like when I do that I really am just playful. Times it gets hard unless the person is like in their head focusing about, you know, hardness.

01:10:59:15 - 01:11:07:13

Roxanne

Yeah, I think that comes to be the issue a lot of the time is they won't let themselves get out of their head.

01:11:07:15 - 01:11:08:02

Luna

Yes.

01:11:08:04 - 01:11:30:00

Roxanne

Yes. I love just playing with it all. I, I love having a soft one and that I can just and honestly that's when they do get a little bit more submissive and actually let me do my work. Yeah. Yes. Let me do my. Yeah.

01:11:30:01 - 01:11:42:15

Luna

Also I think, I think I'm also fascinated because I'm like, I don't have anything on my body that it's like soft and then hard like that. And so I think for me, just the fluctuation, like there's something very interesting about that.

01:11:42:17 - 01:12:16:00

Roxanne

It is. Yeah. And I guess for a while Max expressed that he would love to be able to see me come, you know, because women can see men come. Yeah. Men can't as much see that. So I think another thing that's helped me kind of relax into it, and something that has developed over this time when we've been really into sex, was I've become a creamer.

01:12:16:02 - 01:12:52:11

Roxanne

Yes. You become. Yes. I don't think I had ever trained before. I mean, I would get pretty wet. Yeah, but I have become a creamer and I think it's almost even more for me than him, because I know that I'm being a good girl. I'm doing that. Yes, I love that. And about the soft cock thing, I still kind of hang my hat on it that once I was able to get that to come with a soft.

01:12:52:13 - 01:12:53:07

Roxanne

Yeah.

01:12:53:09 - 01:12:56:07

Luna

I love that. Where were you? Stimulating.

01:12:56:09 - 01:12:59:05

Roxanne

Well, I was kind of blowing and and.

01:12:59:07 - 01:13:00:01

Luna

Other means, you.

01:13:00:01 - 01:13:20:07

Roxanne

Know, ball play a little bit. And I mean, of course you did get a little bit harder, but during that time it kind of surprised him. Like it built up really quick all of a sudden. Yeah. And it was a little bit more surprising which I love. Yeah.

01:13:20:09 - 01:13:34:08

Luna

Oh it's so fun. I mean I, I love the grooves that I have and I love those surprise moments where we discovered stuff that we weren't even looking for. I think that's my favorite. Okay. Is there anything else you must share with us before I ask you the wrap up questions?

01:13:34:10 - 01:14:12:20

Roxanne

I guess some of the learning about those desires are things that we didn't think we would be into. But now we are even has to do with the OnlyFans that I have now. Specifically like the butt plugs with tails. Yeah. Yes. Oh yes yes yes. So I once had a subscriber and I had talked about I had posted butt plug stuff before and he asked me if I would ever do a butt plug with a tail and that he would get it for me.

01:14:12:22 - 01:14:15:16

Roxanne

So he got me. Yeah. So hot.

01:14:15:18 - 01:14:23:07

Luna

That turns me on next level because it's like the layers of it. Or it's like eating food. Someone gave me a reading a book. Someone gave it. Yeah. Okay, I love that. What kind was it?

01:14:23:09 - 01:14:50:03

Roxanne

I think it was kind of purple and white. So it kind of went off my hair. Love that. So the purple and white tail, it also had a purple collar with a heart right there and some fuzzy ears. Yeah. So yeah, I took videos and you know, Max helped me get a video of and putting it in and other videos and pictures of me and those little garb.

01:14:50:09 - 01:14:56:04

Roxanne

I think that's also the guy who eventually bought a pair of my panties. Amazing.

01:14:56:06 - 01:14:59:08

Luna

Oh, you sell panties as well?

01:14:59:10 - 01:15:28:07

Roxanne

I know I do. I've only sold one pair so far. That's great. But I'm I'm very open to it. I love, I love writing well, like it's only the one time, but I love writing the little notes. Yeah. To them personalized notes. And afterwards we even went out and got like, cute pineapple stickers and cute stickers and things that I could do to have it have that personal touch.

01:15:28:09 - 01:15:57:07

Roxanne

But getting back to the tail thing after Max took the videos and the pictures, then we were both excited and wanted to have a session, just the two of us. So I took off the ears and I think at that point we decided to keep the color on. Okay. And then I told Max that he could take the butt plug out because we we had always said like, tails, I don't know.

01:15:57:07 - 01:16:19:15

Roxanne

Yeah. But when the subscriber asked me, I said, oh, I'd love to do that for you, you know? So I told Max he could take it out. And then he said, I think I might just leave it in. Yeah. And so that ended up being something where we both realized, hey, now I can kind of see why it is sexy for people.

01:16:19:17 - 01:16:31:10

Luna

I had this same. Okay, I had the exact same experience with my first like, tail situation. Mine was more of a kitty and mine was a solo masturbation. But it was like, what was did you identify as an animal or were you just like purple creature?

01:16:31:12 - 01:16:39:23

Roxanne

I think I just identified as this is something that this guy really want.

01:16:40:00 - 01:16:41:15

Luna

Got this. Yeah. So it's like you.

01:16:41:16 - 01:16:42:10

Roxanne

Give it to him.

01:16:42:15 - 01:16:58:18

Luna

Yeah. No, I thought, but it was so interesting because I too had to like. Oh, well, like, what if I get wet, the tail gets gross and I don't know, I don't know, but then I, you know, I felt so cute with it. And when I was coming, I was like, oh, this is fun. And, you know, and I always love wearing a plug if other stuff is happening.

01:16:58:18 - 01:17:02:12

Luna

But I was like into the same experience. Totally.

01:17:02:13 - 01:17:32:07

Roxanne

Yes. Yeah. I was so surprised too. But again, yeah, I just felt so cute dressed up. I love laundry, I also before male female males often I will ask the guest if there's anything specific he would like me to wear. I can send you pictures of stuff or you can tell me your favorite color. Or do you like fishnets in a skirt?

01:17:32:11 - 01:17:39:13

Luna

You lucky them. You're a generous lover. I love that.

01:17:39:15 - 01:17:41:19

Roxanne

And I love to be. Yeah.

01:17:41:21 - 01:17:48:02

Luna

Well, and that's why it's important to filter so that you are inviting generous lovers into your life, right? Because it is so fun to give them.

01:17:48:02 - 01:17:54:04

Roxanne

Yeah, yeah. It is, and for them to really appreciate it, I guess. Yeah.

01:17:54:06 - 01:18:13:00

Luna

Okay. So imagine you went to a full spectrum creative resort. I made up that phrase. But imagine like a high end arts camp that includes wellness and erotic arts. What would you want to learn? Like this is a place where you can try anything, do anything, have all the toys. It's all safe. There's professionals there. This doesn't exist yet.

01:18:13:01 - 01:18:19:14

Luna

But like, what would you want to learn at this magical space full of sexy people or experience? But I feel like all experiences are.

01:18:19:14 - 01:18:46:10

Roxanne

Learnings again, for me, it's harder to think of things that I would want to learn specifically about. It's more of I want to learn what's available, what what kind of things are out there, because I feel very confident in the bedroom, but I still feel like I just there's so much I don't know. I don't know what the possibilities are so true.

01:18:46:12 - 01:18:53:13

Luna

I can make a fake brochure and then re ask this question. That was a first time testing out that new question. I can't help it. I get I get curious.

01:18:53:15 - 01:18:59:13

Roxanne

I guess that's the thing is, I would love to see the brochure and see what is available.

01:18:59:15 - 01:19:03:11

Luna

I know I'm like, I just need to make a story and then it'll become true. Okay.

01:19:03:13 - 01:19:04:12

Roxanne

Yes.

01:19:04:14 - 01:19:21:11

Luna

Okay, so if you had to be a sex worker for two years, not an OnlyFans creator, something different, like in a world where we all have to serve as sex workers to serve our country for at least two years, what sex work job would you do?

01:19:21:12 - 01:19:52:21

Roxanne

I think I have a mixture or there's two that I would like to be involved with. One of them, I believe still comes with that like nurturing thing I think I would enjoy, like the girlfriend experience. Yeah. Giving that attention of course, with the knowledge that I do have a husband, I do have a full time job, so I may not be able to be there always, but I will be there for you, you know, for.

01:19:52:21 - 01:19:55:07

Luna

The number of hours that they purchase.

01:19:55:07 - 01:20:34:12

Roxanne

You for. Yeah, exactly. Very hot. And just helping them feel that there are women who want the best for everyone. Yeah. Or there are men who want the best for everyone. Yeah. And that is very much my view on life because I had that from Max, but wasn't really able to give that back or really experience giving it to other, you know, other people or really experience that myself because I, I was so disconnected from daily life.

01:20:34:13 - 01:20:35:00

Roxanne

Yeah.

01:20:35:00 - 01:20:41:21

Luna

And that's a long time to be so out of balance for what is a human need and norm for that in Hilo.

01:20:42:02 - 01:21:14:11

Roxanne

Yeah, yeah. And I do feel like that has just helped me though, be able to really suck, come to it and experience it all, actually feel it all and take it all in. And then the other type of, I don't know, some sort of sex work that I would like to do would be possibly being kind of, not educator, but a helper for people wanting to get into the lifestyle.

01:21:14:16 - 01:22:01:13

Roxanne

I'm very passionate about it because I feel like we had a very good entry into the lifestyle. We used to say, we've been really lucky with our experiences. Now we know that there's a degree of that and that we get those feelings about people. Like, I can kind of tell pretty soon into messaging if I feel like they would be a good match or that they're ready for this, or I mean, of course there are the guys who would love to just have me and less, yeah, less that respect and appreciation of not sharing me.

01:22:01:15 - 01:22:33:19

Roxanne

Right. Which is something that we really, we really enjoy when the man is very appreciative and just enjoys it. So we and we have heard of some horror stories of people with their first experiences, and it's really nice to share our outlook on it and how we approach it. I feel like a lot of people are the same way, but they don't realize it.

01:22:33:21 - 01:22:57:03

Roxanne

They don't realize that that's why they want to do it, and that because that's why they want to do it. They should look out for people who have the same outlook on it, instead of people who are just, you know, I'll be that piece of meat who comes in or, you know, things like that. Even with couples, too.

01:22:57:05 - 01:23:25:07

Roxanne

So we've experienced that. If one person isn't as into it or as ready, you have to be patient and you have to take it at your own pace. So sharing those kinds of insights that we've discovered I think would just be fabulous. And I guess that ties into your question about making the world a little bit more open and less stigmatized with things like ENM.

01:23:25:09 - 01:23:46:08

Luna

Yeah. Oh absolutely. I think it's so important, you know, being a guide for others. And it sounds like already you're doing that job, but for free. Yeah. It's very nice of you, you know, and, and I and also it's like that's what we do with our passions. Right. We follow them and we do that. And it's so beautiful, I think, to share learnings in that way and to really just do our part to spread those ripples of love.

01:23:46:10 - 01:23:46:17

Roxanne

Okay.

01:23:46:17 - 01:23:56:17

Luna

So lastly, you now have an unlimited budget to build your perfect creation space playroom, dungeon, mansion, palace, castle, hotel, etc.. What is it.

01:23:56:17 - 01:24:31:18

Roxanne

Like? Oh, I would love to have basically a wall of toys or display like toys on display where you can glance over and see, oh wait, that's something I can play with right now. Let's experience that. I would also love to have basically like a wardrobe with all of my lingerie, all of my little outfits. I have a little a little section in my closet right now, but it's like sexy being.

01:24:31:21 - 01:24:33:01

Roxanne

It's like, okay.

01:24:33:03 - 01:24:35:13

Luna

Yeah, yeah, it's harder to get to do it.

01:24:35:13 - 01:25:04:10

Roxanne

It's so I fantasize about that a little bit. There are also still just so many things we haven't tried, so I'd love to experience a sex chair. I think I would love to experience more bondage, blindfolding things like that. When I'm really in that submissive zone, my usually I barely ever open my eyes. Yeah.

01:25:04:14 - 01:25:06:16

Luna

I'm obviously I'm like.

01:25:06:18 - 01:25:07:04

Roxanne

I do.

01:25:07:09 - 01:25:11:04

Luna

Everything until I'm coming. And then I'm like, somebody opened my eyes for me because.

01:25:11:04 - 01:25:42:12

Roxanne

They get stuck closed. You keep I think I think I'm getting a little bit better with that now, but I've always had, well, since the migraine years and taking all of the crazy medications that I took, I have noticed. I mean, I'm sure some of them were the different anti-psychotics that I had to try. But I have found that I believe I have some facial tics, things like that, that sometimes surface.

01:25:42:12 - 01:26:00:08

Roxanne

Yeah. And at first in sexual situations. I was very self-conscious of that. Oh, damn. That was kind of why I liked the idea of being blindfolded, because then it was like, they won't see us much and I can get out of my head. Yeah, a little bit about it.

01:26:00:08 - 01:26:18:20

Luna

Safe and cozy. I also imagine if you're coming so much, that's an immense amount of stimulation. And so you know, for me, closing my eyes or plugging my ears like I'm one of those people that now where it's like little earplugs if I'm in allowed. But I, you know, because it's because it is. It is so much especially for a sensitive creature.

01:26:18:22 - 01:26:49:08

Roxanne

It really is. But then I guess now I've kind of morphed into that. I like it for the submission part. And then being blindfolded instead of me just squeezing my eyes shut, it's actually taken away from me, that vision. So then I experience I mean I don't need that much help experiencing all the other stuff, but it is even a little bit more intense and taking away that control.

01:26:49:10 - 01:26:56:23

Roxanne

Yeah, I haven't done much bondage yet. I mean, mostly because of just the way our bedroom is.

01:26:57:01 - 01:27:08:16

Luna

Is also, you've only been exploring a few years. Like, I mean, come on, you know, and yeah, space is a real thing. Although they have those under the bed strap. So that's what I that was my first like thing with my former dorm. It's like a little thing.

01:27:08:16 - 01:27:28:03

Roxanne

Excuse me. The strap thing. I think that's going to be one of our next yeah, things to purchase. So definitely some of that with bondage because now I think I consider it even more sexy instead of just me trying to hide. And I suppose.

01:27:28:05 - 01:27:29:18

Luna

Oh, I totally relate to that.

01:27:29:19 - 01:27:40:06

Roxanne

Yeah. So definitely some of that. And I mean, it has to have a big bed. That's what I was just going to say. I was like, I think you're gigantic, Bender, right?

01:27:40:08 - 01:27:46:01

Luna

You do maybe a super bed like four beds pushed together or something.

01:27:46:03 - 01:27:52:07

Roxanne

At least. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, we would definitely love that.

01:27:52:09 - 01:28:05:19

Luna

Oh, that makes me want to have a big pillow fight. Have you ever had a pillow fight in your swinging situation? Oh, I want it like I'm. I'm the person. If I go to hotel rooms and there's two beds, I will bounce across. Like, if the ceilings are high and, you know, like, I'll be.

01:28:05:21 - 01:28:31:08

Roxanne

So I think when I think about it, I'm the person who would love to do that, but I'm also the person who will end up flying off the bed. Yeah. No, no, no, I'm clumsy to do that. Yeah. Very safe bounces. Yes. Yeah. Oh, I just realized I have another bucket list done that we, we just discovered last night with the couple.

01:28:31:10 - 01:28:33:01

Luna

Another fresh one. Yeah. Go for it.

01:28:33:01 - 01:29:00:18

Roxanne

Yes. There's that couple that we feel very open with and we just it keeps getting better and better. There's another couple who's very similar where both of those women are like me that they want to give and be used by men. Like we want to be that pleasure that they experience. And all of us have a few single males, two that we play with.

01:29:00:20 - 01:29:09:10

Roxanne

So this new fantasy is all three of us couples getting together and each couple bringing a ball.

01:29:09:12 - 01:29:15:01

Luna

Yeah, three couples in a ball. Sounds like a story. I definitely would read too.

01:29:15:03 - 01:29:17:08

Roxanne

Oh, yes, very much.

01:29:17:10 - 01:29:20:01

Luna

Oh, I love this fantasy.

01:29:20:03 - 01:29:30:15

Roxanne

It's a fantasy that we really want to make come true. Yeah. One of those that is a very realistic fantasy. Once schedules are figured out.

01:29:30:15 - 01:29:33:02

Luna

I was going to say it sounds like you have the pieces now. You just need.

01:29:33:02 - 01:29:36:16

Roxanne

This scheduling Grown-Ups. Exactly, exactly.

01:29:36:16 - 01:29:41:07

Luna

Yeah, it is hot. Especially if you like, you know, people who have people that is.

01:29:41:07 - 01:29:42:02

Roxanne

I mean, yes.

01:29:42:05 - 01:29:46:02

Luna

Well, I look forward to hearing your future update on that one.

01:29:46:04 - 01:29:49:04

Roxanne

Yes, definitely.

01:29:49:06 - 01:30:11:12

Luna

Lovers, you can find Roxanne on X at Roxanne. Underscore Max underscore off find. They're only found only friends.com/roxanne and Max underscore swingers. There's links all down below. And then there's another one swinging. Max and Roxanne. Go check them out. You are amazing, Roxanne. Thank you so much. Thank you. Six stories. Oops x stories. Oops. Right. Well that's okay.

01:30:11:16 - 01:30:12:13

Luna

We're in progress.