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39 bi-comfy married cis white male, he/him pronouns, in an ENM open marriage with his wife Roxanne (see ep 257).

🔗 MAX LINKS | @roxanne_max_ / makelovenotporn.tv / OF paid / OF free

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00:00:00:12 - 00:00:20:09

Luna

And our guest today is a 39 year old big, comfy, white cis male who has been married to his current partner since 2009. He is not a fan of relationship labels. They have been ethically non-monogamous since 2021, and they might use the phrase poly and or swinger if pressed. He is into honesty, sharing, open mindedness, sensual touch, talk and recaps.

00:00:20:14 - 00:00:36:17

Luna

Hands. Laughter. Good thing because I just took a lot of takes of laughing, kissing, especially neck kissing, eye contact, worship group play, sexy whispers, and sexy video making. An actor in Los Angeles but originally from the Midwest. Welcome, Max.

00:00:36:19 - 00:00:41:19

Max

Hello. I am so happy to be here and I'm honored to be on your show. I'm a big fan of you.

00:00:42:01 - 00:00:56:12

Luna

Oh, thank you so much. I'm so happy to have you here. Also, Kimberly probably cleaned up that intro, but I just like, took. I think that's the most takes I've ever taken in an intro. And then I just started to get into a giggle fit. So that's a fun beginning. This is I'm we're off to a place start also.

00:00:56:14 - 00:01:01:14

Luna

I didn't go over your intro with you before reading it right in front of you. How was that for you?

00:01:01:16 - 00:01:07:09

Max

That was a great intro. I think that very accurately describes my mindset and perspective.

00:01:07:11 - 00:01:15:11

Luna

Okay. And I'm going to try a brand new thing with you here today, if that's okay with you. Do you want to do a celebration exploration, question? Exploration.

00:01:15:12 - 00:01:23:03

Max

I love new experiences. That's one of the reasons why I thought it'd be fun to do this podcast. So I am all about anything new you want to try?

00:01:23:07 - 00:01:43:14

Luna

Okay, great. I too am a novelty seeker. Like a conscious novelty seeker, right? Okay, so I realized that I have made a big effort in my life to get real clear about consent in my interactions, for better or worse. And the whole goal of this podcast is to like, model talking and kind of like learn about how each other we talk.

00:01:43:19 - 00:01:57:13

Luna

But I've never I don't think on pod like, hey, how personal do you actually want to get today? Right? Like with professional guests that you're getting ahead of time with personal guests. You know, I prep them to share all. But Max, how personal do you feel? Comfy sharing today? What are your boundaries here?

00:01:57:15 - 00:02:17:13

Max

We can get super personal as we're recounting, you know, different stories and different experiences that I've had. I do tend to enjoy details. I really like details. If I share details that are too specific for your podcast, I mean, totally, you know, direct me in other way.

00:02:17:13 - 00:02:22:20

Luna

I guess if it's legal and consensual, I would love to hear the details.

00:02:22:22 - 00:02:39:14

Max

All right. Cool, because I do I say all the all the bad work, not bad words, but I say all the naughty words and all that. So I enjoy sharing stories from our sexual experiences. My wife's and I, and I enjoy hearing stories too. It's one of the things that really turns me on.

00:02:39:16 - 00:02:52:19

Luna

Oh, I love hearing that. Okay, so answer for me this question. If you had to rate yourself on a shame, a meter with ten being the most full of shame and one being not to shame at all. Where do you fall today and what is your shame Acosta looked like throughout your lifetime?

00:02:52:21 - 00:03:21:12

Max

Right now, at this very moment, I think I'm a one because I'm on the podcast with you and that makes me feel really sexy because I think your show is very sexy. As far as the roller coaster, I think that there have definitely been points in my life where I've been closer to a seven or an eight. I've always had a pretty good relationship with masturbation for various reasons, so I've never really felt shameful around that.

00:03:21:12 - 00:03:45:10

Max

You know, in my younger years I did when I was confused about how things operate, I suppose. But yeah, I would say that I haven't been above a five probably since I was like sick. I was sick about a month ago, and when I get sick, I start feeling real gross about my body and it's hard for me to think about anything, you know, sexually or for pleasure or anything like that.

00:03:45:10 - 00:04:10:02

Max

So damn, I was pretty sick, like a like a month ago. So that's probably when last time I was above a five. But in my life, in my late 30s, I am around to one, 2 or 3 most of the time, I think, and part of that should be credited to my lovely wife too, because being with her at the point we are at in our lives, we, help each other keep our number really low on that shame a meter.

00:04:10:03 - 00:04:16:08

Max

You know, we celebrate each other's sexuality, each other's fantasies and and all that.

00:04:16:10 - 00:04:30:17

Luna

That is hard as fuck. And I have been lately imagining what it's like to have that sort of, like approval from a partner, like, in an everyday way. I'm like, oh, right. When I hang out with my friends who, like, approve of me and witnessed me, that's nice. I can see how that could be a benefit to someone.

00:04:30:17 - 00:04:45:02

Luna

I can see why a good partnership causes people to live longer, I think because of the data. So you said that you at times have been a 7 or 8. What is most likely to make a 7 or 8, or what used to make a 7 or 8 in you?

00:04:45:04 - 00:05:11:00

Max

I grew up in the Midwest, as I mentioned, and I did grow up in a religious family. I had a religious upbringing, Southern Baptist, to be accurate. And a lot of the information that you get, well, you don't get much information about sexuality and your own development as a sexual being on this earth. You know, when you're in one of those religions, at least from my experience.

00:05:11:00 - 00:05:31:02

Max

Anyway. So as I grew older, I had a lot of self-discovery that needed to happen and a lot of figuring out about my sexuality and stuff, because I didn't really have that a lot growing up, like in the church and stuff. But I have definitely dealt with that as an adult, and I've kind of distance myself from that.

00:05:31:02 - 00:05:51:17

Max

And I have a new mindset when it comes to that kind of stuff. But any kind of shame I would have around masturbation or sex or desire or feeling that I was told that I shouldn't have anything that I dealt with that took me up to a 7 or 8 probably stems from, my religious upbringing.

00:05:51:20 - 00:06:01:19

Luna

I would say, okay. Wow. Okay. So including the masturbation stuff you kind of talked about and then but what about when you're sick? It spikes your shame. Is it like a general grossness?

00:06:01:21 - 00:06:21:18

Max

It just makes me feel gross, like my body feels gross and I can't stop coughing, you know? And, you know, like, sometimes when my wife, like, tries to cuddle with me or something and I'm not feeling so good. I just feel like I can't touch her, you know, because, well, I physically don't want to cough on her, but at the same time, I just feel like my body isn't functioning where it needs to be.

00:06:21:18 - 00:06:24:16

Max

You know, to have like a valuable sexual experience.

00:06:24:18 - 00:06:50:12

Luna

Yeah. Okay. So on the note of some of the kind of like shaming, maybe cultural norms that were attempted to be embedded in you. I'm getting curious with people lately, like, what other cultural norms have you experienced in your life that have either like squished your personal pleasure process or maybe has just led to shame and judgment either of yourself and or others?

00:06:50:13 - 00:06:53:01

Luna

Does it kind of make sense as a new question? Noodle?

00:06:53:03 - 00:07:17:22

Max

Yeah, the older that I get, the more that I understand that society functions in a certain way and there are expectations put on you as an individual. Or if you're in a relationship as a couple, as to how you should conduct your personal life, your social life, all that. But I think the older that I get, the more that I realize that a lot of that stuff is a facade.

00:07:18:00 - 00:07:32:16

Max

And as adults, we should learn to live the life that we want to live. We should find ways to explore our sexuality, maybe that we're not taught through societal implications, you know?

00:07:32:20 - 00:07:42:09

Luna

Yes. And those are nebulous implications, too. I'm like, I'm supposed to be, wait, what? And it depends on who's saying them and what are their motives.

00:07:42:11 - 00:08:04:12

Max

Yeah, I'm supposed to have kids when I'm this age. I'm supposed to get married when I'm this age. Time, supposed to only fuck one person for the rest of my life. You know, these things that we are told are normal. Like, this is how people function in our society. A lot of them, as I get older, for me at least, are not normal.

00:08:04:12 - 00:08:24:15

Max

They're kind of bizarre in a way. And the the journey of like going through life, and especially when you have a great partner like I do for so many years, exploring all that stuff together and figuring out how you want to live your life together, I mean, that that's really a pretty special thing. And I'll be 40 in a few months here.

00:08:24:15 - 00:08:31:14

Max

And right now I'm very happy at where I am in my exploration as as an adult and as a sexual being.

00:08:31:16 - 00:08:52:18

Luna

Oh, I love hearing that and I am so excited for more details. First, I'd like to kind of try a new introduction route. I would like to hear what are you the best at? It can be sexually or but like connection wise with your partner. And how did you get to be so good?

00:08:52:19 - 00:08:56:07

Max

I am really into praise.

00:08:56:09 - 00:08:57:11

Luna

00:08:57:12 - 00:09:04:09

Max

Physical praise, you know, like I really love, you know, physical ass worship and, massage and all those kinds of things.

00:09:04:11 - 00:09:07:22

Luna

We like. You give the worship or receive it or both.

00:09:08:00 - 00:09:39:00

Max

I give normally. Yeah. My wife has a fantastic ass. Yeah, sometimes that's like all the foreplay we need. You know what I mean? I just wish address for 5 to 10 minutes, and then we're both, like, pretty much ready to go. But the reason I mentioned that specifically is she loves receiving praise. At the same time she kind of likes she's discovered, you know, in her adult years, too, as she's kind of had her sexual awakening in her mid 30s.

00:09:39:02 - 00:09:56:04

Max

She's discovered that she enjoys being the center of attention in a sexual scene, and she enjoys being praised and being touched and all that. So that's just one of the things that makes us such a good match, I think, is I love giving it and she loves receiving it.

00:09:56:06 - 00:10:09:00

Luna

Amazing. Does it ever make you shy? Sometimes I get so shy, especially in a sexual situation. Like I'm like, proud. But I feel like a little baby where I'm just like, they're looking at me like, yeah. So you're just, like, proud of it.

00:10:09:02 - 00:10:30:12

Max

Well, maybe I'm jumping ahead here, but since my wife and I have started this sexual exploration of doing all kinds of different things with group sex and parties and clubs and filming and all this kind of stuff, doing everything that we've done the past few years since we've kind of opened our marriage up a little bit to involve other people in different ways.

00:10:30:14 - 00:10:48:15

Max

Having friends that, you know, we do things as a foursome or sometimes we split off into twos or whatever, but lots of different experiences. And I have realized that while I've had like voyeuristic tendencies for a long time, I really enjoy watching people have sex. I like it when people watch me have sex too.

00:10:48:20 - 00:10:50:20

Luna

Okay, so exhibitionist.

00:10:50:22 - 00:10:56:07

Max

Yeah, I think so. And I would not have known that, you know, if I hadn't explored.

00:10:56:09 - 00:11:12:21

Luna

Okay. I love that. What's the can you like specify the sound of the feeling behind liking getting watched because I've met people. And I'll give you examples for context. Like I've met people who are like, yeah, baby, look at me. You're like, woohoo! I'm all right here. And I'm a little more like, yes, well, I'm right here. And of course you have permission.

00:11:12:21 - 00:11:17:09

Luna

Whatever you want. I'm just right here, you know, like, what's the flavor is.

00:11:17:11 - 00:11:37:22

Max

I definitely like the, fly on the wall type thing, you know, like when I'm having sex. And then people are. They're watching kind of in silence and just kind of enjoying taking it in. I've been in situations where my wife and I have been having sex, and other people have kind of gathered around to watch in a club environment.

00:11:38:03 - 00:11:58:22

Max

They've asked politely to join in and, you know, like we're in the moment. We politely say, you know what, we're just going to keep it up, you know? And then a bigger crowd will gather around, you know, and then they'll start kind of commenting on things that they like to see, you know, and all that. And I don't mind taking instruction either.

00:11:59:00 - 00:12:00:11

Luna

Like crowd suggestion.

00:12:00:12 - 00:12:02:01

Max

Yeah. That's how I don't mind that.

00:12:02:07 - 00:12:30:22

Luna

Oh I love that. I would love to follow orders from a crowd. That would be great here I love that okay. I would like to hear what is the most helpful thing that you have learned in your lifetime about sex or interpersonal connection and or relationships, long term relationships, like you can pick kind of your area of focus and expertise, but like, what's the most helpful connection sex connection thing you've gleaned in your life?

00:12:31:00 - 00:13:04:10

Max

The most important thing to me is communication with your partner, your long term partner or a partner that you're just going to have some experiences with one time or two times or three times. But talking about what you like, what turns you on, and more importantly, listening to your partner or partners about what they like and what turns them on and their boundaries and, you know, things you do during foreplay that really get them going and get them in the mood quickly.

00:13:04:12 - 00:13:14:16

Max

It's communication that is the most important thing, I think, to have like a really good sex life, you know, with your partner or with whoever.

00:13:14:18 - 00:13:41:11

Luna

I definitely have found that to be the case for myself. And I think, you know, you're right. It is something that we hear all the time. And Doctor Emily Morris says communication is lubrication. And and I get really turned on by words. And I do think talking about it ahead of time of the turn on. But what I feel like is missing, you know, as a Uber nerd who has basically gone deep down a rabbit hole of studying, communicate as it relates to sex, and I find myself getting only more and more confused.

00:13:41:13 - 00:13:53:17

Luna

Do you feel like like you and your partner just have the gift of we can communicate? Or do you feel like you've had to like, work to discover tools and like, do you have any communication wisdom here?

00:13:53:18 - 00:14:20:01

Max

It definitely takes work no matter what. I mean, we met in 2002. We started dating in 2003. We got married in 2009. We started fucking other people in 2021. So that's kind of like the timeline of everything. But we've been through a lot over that time period and certain things happen and they teach you how to communicate better, I think so, I think it maybe is a combination of both.

00:14:20:01 - 00:14:40:07

Max

It's something that we definitely have to work at. But with my wife and I, like, we still turn each other on. We still love each other. We're still best friends, just like we were, as you know, 18 year old kids we met in college, so it's a combination of that foundation, but also the work over time to learn how to communicate better.

00:14:40:09 - 00:14:58:13

Luna

Do you guys have like explicit conversations about like, babe, we're going to work on this style of communication or is it like trial and error? Like, oh shit, a big family tragedy happens and now we have to talk about a feeling, or is it like what? What are some of the kind of specific textures or concrete pieces of your communication and growth with your partner have looked like?

00:14:58:15 - 00:15:20:14

Max

I think that we definitely know each other's tendencies with certain things. When I get bad news or when I'm depressed, for whatever reason, I don't get depressed a lot, but I do every now and then. Every few months I get depressed for like 3 or 4 days and it's awful. I mean, it's terrible, but she knows when I get that way that it's best that I just have space, you know?

00:15:20:14 - 00:15:41:04

Max

And she knows not to, like, push it, you know? And you know, what do you need from me? You know, what are you so upset about? You know, why don't you do this? You know, and it goes the other way, too. We know when we need to give each other a little bit of space, because we know that personally, I need time to figure out what's happening in my own brain at times.

00:15:41:06 - 00:16:05:21

Max

And I need quiet, I need silence, I need just time. You know, sometimes it's a day. Sometimes it's really. Sometimes it's like an hour, honestly, you know, but we know that about each other. And because of that, we're good problem solvers. Like when she has a problem, I can help her solve it. When I have a problem, she can help me solve it because we know what we need to ultimately figure out what's going on.

00:16:05:21 - 00:16:06:14

Max

You know.

00:16:06:16 - 00:16:29:23

Luna

That's really cool. And it seems like next level relational thing, because I imagine that that communication style also allows you I imagine it creates space for desire. Like, can you articulate kind of like what your like frequency of desire? It sounds like you guys have a really like positive active sex life. Like, can you give us a little snapshot of the texture of it for us?

00:16:30:01 - 00:16:34:07

Max

I think that there's a thousand different directions I could go with that.

00:16:34:09 - 00:16:42:06

Luna

Okay. Concretely, how many times a week? How often do you play with friends? What did turn ons look like for you? If that's helpful, or say whatever you wanted to say.

00:16:42:06 - 00:16:51:20

Max

But yesterday we had sex four times, which is not uncommon for a Sunday when neither of us have much to do.

00:16:52:01 - 00:16:53:13

Luna

How do you counter sex?

00:16:53:15 - 00:17:21:18

Max

Any kind of touch? An orgasm doesn't have to occur for it to be sex. However, my lovely wife, she has the ability to come very, very, very easily. So she she pretty much always comes up. And because of that, I pretty much always come to. But like yesterday, I've been here over in the kitchen once. I think one time I was early in the morning, I was masturbating.

00:17:21:20 - 00:17:40:15

Max

And sometimes I'll do that and I'll make myself really hard where I'm about to come, and then I'll come in to the living room to whatever she's doing. She works from home to actually. So she's always at home. And then, you know, I'll just say, hey, can I come in you real quick? And she says, of course. And, you know, and then we do it and it's over in like a minute.

00:17:40:17 - 00:17:42:13

Max

We do that sometimes.

00:17:42:15 - 00:17:52:00

Luna

We in the kitchen where you bender over do literally just like walk up to her and bend over and put it in. Or do you talk or does it just depend on the day? Because I'm like all of the time. Yeah.

00:17:52:02 - 00:17:54:20

Max

I used to ask every time.

00:17:54:21 - 00:17:56:10

Luna

I used to ask every time.

00:17:56:13 - 00:18:04:01

Max

Yeah. But at a certain point she let me know, hey, I'm open for business pretty much any time. Like, which goes.

00:18:04:01 - 00:18:05:11

Luna

Back to that communication.

00:18:05:11 - 00:18:06:22

Max

Time. Yes, exactly.

00:18:06:22 - 00:18:11:17

Luna

That would drop my shame a meter and really skyrocket my desire.

00:18:11:18 - 00:18:36:12

Max

Yeah. There's been times where she'll go to sleep first and I'll masturbate a little bit and I think, wow, it'd be really nice to come in her right now, you know? And in the old days of our relationship, our relationship has a bunch of really nuanced things that have happened that have kind of brought us to the point that we're at now.

00:18:36:12 - 00:18:50:01

Max

But in the old days, I would never, never wake her up. But now she's okay with it. If I wake her up and say, hey, can I come in you real quick? And then I do it, and then she just goes right back to sleep. So we have that kind of, rapport to, you know.

00:18:50:06 - 00:18:55:06

Luna

Established a certain set of allowances, rules, dynamics. Yeah. Permission. Yeah.

00:18:55:06 - 00:19:18:01

Max

Whatever you want. Exactly. But also yesterday we did a few quickies, but when she actually worked yesterday and when she was done with work, we had like an hour, you know, where we just watched a few videos. We do that sometimes as foreplay. There's a lot of different ways that we do foreplay, but we watch some videos and then we had sex and really enjoyed each other, and it wasn't a rush at all.

00:19:18:01 - 00:19:35:21

Max

You know, sometimes it's just like, let's do it real quick. Let's bring it out, you know? And that's fun too. Yeah. But other times we really like to take the time to, you know, enjoy each other's bodies. I'm actually really into edging. So, you know, when we have long sessions, it kind of gets to the point where I just kind of use her to edge myself, which we both love, you know?

00:19:35:21 - 00:19:37:10

Max

Ooh.

00:19:37:12 - 00:19:43:09

Luna

Like literally like fuck wise or like how when you say you use her to edge yourself, what does that look like?

00:19:43:11 - 00:20:06:05

Max

I usually use her pussy. Okay. To do that. You know, I like her to be very still when I'm, like, edging myself. And then I just kind of use it how I want to. And I usually go really slow to when I get to that point, which we both really enjoy. And she comes. I'm so lucky. I mean, as I say this, like I'm reminded again how lucky I am.

00:20:06:05 - 00:20:19:21

Max

She comes so easily. She's really the best sex partner because she comes so easily. But she's not a pillow princess at all. She gets off on giving too. Yeah, yeah. So she's like the best sex partner there is. You know, I'm. I'm so lucky.

00:20:19:23 - 00:20:26:09

Luna

Am I hearing traces of a dynamic in your connection? Like, is there a power dynamic or would you say. Not really.

00:20:26:11 - 00:20:52:22

Max

We don't really explore any traditional kink, not that power dynamic, but I am definitely more of a Domme when it comes to fucking anybody, really. And she is definitely a submissive. She does not like making any decisions ever. Except when she's sucking cock. That's when she wants to have control. But anything else? She doesn't want to make any decisions when it's just me and her.

00:20:52:22 - 00:21:14:12

Max

If it's in a group setting, whatever, she she makes decisions all day, every day at her job, so she enjoys that time to kind of let go and just be, you know, and just tell me where to go, what position to be in, what I should do. Okay. She's into that. Yeah. Which again, is a really it's a good coupling with me as well because I'm kind of the other way.

00:21:14:12 - 00:21:19:00

Max

Like when it gets to a certain point and I get really into it, I like to be in control physically.

00:21:19:03 - 00:21:50:00

Luna

Yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. Well, so it sounds like you guys have really high compatibility there physically communication wise. Okay. So you guys have been together for a minute. You seem to love each other. There's a connection there. So I'd love to hear you maybe answer this question, both in terms of the relationship you have with your wife and also when you decide to invite new people in together, play with new partners, like what do you need in order to feel excited to connect intimately with a partner?

00:21:50:02 - 00:21:51:20

Luna

Intimately being sex.

00:21:51:22 - 00:22:16:12

Max

Conversation has to happen. For me personally, it doesn't even have to be sexual conversation. It just needs to be us communicating verbally when we meet new people, whether it's single men or couples or we have met some single women together as well, but single men far surpass meeting single women. But it's never something where it's like, come over, let's do this.

00:22:16:12 - 00:22:34:17

Max

If it's a new person, it always needs to be. Let's sit down. Let's have a beer. Let's smoke a joint. Let's talk. You know, not just about sex, but let's talk about, you know, your life and where you are in your life and all that. That's the kind of stuff that I really enjoy. And quite frankly, it turns me on as well.

00:22:34:19 - 00:22:47:17

Luna

Can you give us a story that exemplifies a moment of you and a partner or partners where there was a hot mutual yes. Or like a mutual yes that led to hotness?

00:22:47:18 - 00:23:11:13

Max

The first story that comes to mind was the first time we went to a sex club together, and at a certain point of mingling upstairs and dancing and having a few drinks, all that, at a certain point we end up down in one of the playrooms and we still do this to this day. We actually haven't been to a sex club in a while, but every time we go, we always just go and get started on our own in the playrooms.

00:23:11:13 - 00:23:40:16

Max

And then it seems like things just unwind naturally and it's a really great experience. Although no experience is the same as the other. But we went down to the playrooms. We got started on her own. She sucked my cock for a while and then I started fucking her missionary and we were on this big bed and as I was fucking her missionary, there was a couple to my immediate left and a couple to my immediate right who were also fucking.

00:23:40:18 - 00:24:00:18

Max

So there were three couples kind of right there. One of the women asked if she could touch my wife, you know, as I fucked her as she was getting fucked. And of course we were like, yes, of course. And then once she started touching her, the other woman from the other couple said, hey, can I touch her as well?

00:24:00:20 - 00:24:27:16

Max

The answer, of course, is a resounding yes, especially because you asked nicely. So she's getting touched by two women and getting fucked. And my wife being a submissive, I knew that she would enjoy me taking charge in that moment and suggesting something. So I looked at the guy in couple A and I said, hey, she'll suck your cock if you want to, and he looked at his wife and she was like, yeah.

00:24:27:16 - 00:24:50:01

Max

And then so he came over and she was still being touched by the women and she was sucking his cock. Basically. It kind of ended up being a little cuddle puddle, like everyone was kind of touching everyone and everything. Then we took a break and I kind of leaned back. And then the woman from couple B politely asked if she could suck my cock, and I said yes, of course.

00:24:50:03 - 00:25:15:23

Max

And then she started doing that. And then eventually that kind of ignited a swap with that couple and couple a went back upstairs to get water and, you know, rest, I suppose. So we swapped with them and it was fantastic. It was wonderful. And then we went back upstairs and, we sat and talked and stuff and then couple a from earlier.

00:25:16:01 - 00:25:31:17

Max

They came up and they started talking to us again and we started talking about our dogs. I think it was getting pretty late in the evening. It was like 330 in the morning and they said, hey, would you like to go back down to the play rooms are you guys into that? And we were like, yes, of course.

00:25:31:19 - 00:25:50:23

Max

So we went back down there and then we slept with them that night. I really liked that story because it sort of evolved with everyone, all together, you know? Yes, there were six of us. There were three couples. It sort of started like that. And my wife was the centerpiece. Yeah. This is one of the reasons why she learned that.

00:25:50:23 - 00:26:08:13

Max

She sort of likes attention. She likes praise. She was the center of everything, really. And then we had a great experience with both couples separately after that. And that was just, you know, one night. So stories like that, that I think about and I'm just like, wow, that was so sexy that I did that. That's so cool. You know?

00:26:08:15 - 00:26:37:06

Luna

Yes. It sounds also like I just want to share reflection because I'm hearing that you're a in a space where you feel comfortable, you're literally one of the people that is like, we'll get the party started, you know, and then be it sounds like you two are already on the same page about what your desires at a party are, which I've definitely attempted to navigate things with people who like it became clear in real time that they were not so I just want to shout out for sexiness there and like, compliment you on that, you know?

00:26:37:06 - 00:26:52:15

Luna

And then it sounds also like you already had. Well, actually, I do want to ask about health and safety stuff like you were either in an environment where it's already maybe squared away ahead of time or you did you talk about that explicitly or did you use barriers or kind of like, what are your needs for playing with others?

00:26:52:17 - 00:27:01:06

Max

This particular club that we went to, you cannot have sex with anyone that you didn't walk in with without a condom.

00:27:01:08 - 00:27:09:17

Luna

For PNB, or does that include like oral stuff as well? Like are they doing condoms for blowjobs and Laurel's for oral.

00:27:09:19 - 00:27:30:06

Max

Specifically for Pav, as you say. So that's the rule there, which of course, you know, we follow that. We are big on testing. We think it's very important to get tested and to share the fact that we do get tested with other people that we play with because we want to foster like a safe sex environment. You know what?

00:27:30:12 - 00:27:52:22

Max

And we always, like, make a cute little date out of it together, too. We always go go together. And it's fun to be at the clinic. And, you know, some people look at you like, oh no, what you do, did you cheat on me? You know, I mean, just looks the people give you the I mean, we walk in, you know, proud and we're just like, yeah, we're swingers, you know, like, we used to get tested together and then we always go get ice cream after we get tested.

00:27:52:22 - 00:27:56:15

Max

So that's like.

00:27:56:17 - 00:28:09:14

Luna

A party like that. You're not going to, like, stop it. Or it sounds like you didn't stop on the bed to be like testing. Testing. What's your fluid preference? You know, like that sounds like a more fluid environment, but where maybe you've kind of decided ahead of time what your comfort levels are.

00:28:09:16 - 00:28:28:12

Max

Yeah, we definitely know each other's comfort levels. And with that, we have had partners that literally right before, you know, fucking happens. Like they want us to get our results and and show them our cell phone and all that kind of stuff, and we'll do that. All this sometimes is kind of a turn off when you're in the moment.

00:28:28:13 - 00:28:29:00

Max

Like.

00:28:29:02 - 00:28:33:16

Luna

I logistically difficult that a party because your phones are usually checked.

00:28:33:18 - 00:28:37:13

Max

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And none of us had our phones. We're all naked.

00:28:37:15 - 00:28:38:02

Luna

Yeah, yeah.

00:28:38:04 - 00:29:01:05

Max

I think the best way to communicate about it is talking about it, maybe via text or however you first connect with the couple or another single person. And that way it's already been discussed and everyone knows each other's boundaries. So when you get in the sexual moment and everyone starts getting turned on, you don't have to talk about that stuff that you've already talked about it.

00:29:01:05 - 00:29:06:11

Max

You already know their boundaries. They know your boundaries and and everyone can can go.

00:29:06:13 - 00:29:16:15

Luna

Okay. So party rules are use condoms, keep that protected. But you're comfortable with like saliva exchange on all parts or we're.

00:29:16:15 - 00:29:17:22

Max

Comfortable with that okay okay.

00:29:17:23 - 00:29:29:00

Luna

Yeah. And then just regular testing. Cool. Okay. Anything else about that story that is like stand out to you or that you if you feel like is a learning take away or just something you kind of like sexually cherish.

00:29:29:02 - 00:29:33:17

Max

I mean I sexually cherish it. I think that's definitely not the.

00:29:33:20 - 00:29:37:17

Luna

Not the crazy term come out of my mouth. And I was like, why? Why is this way and why does she.

00:29:37:22 - 00:29:58:15

Max

Well, that's why I wanted to repeat it. I thought it was pretty brilliant, sexually cherished because, like I do sexually cherish a lot of the memories that we have created together with other people. It's exciting. And then we talk about it, you know, and that access foreplay for some time. Sometimes we just talk about previous sexual experiences with that.

00:29:58:17 - 00:30:27:22

Luna

Was that part of your like formative relationship was that's something that evolved because I literally in regular dating, I love being a sex worker because people aren't afraid of sex in regular dating, people are like, oh, and I'm like, I just asked what it would take to get you to think about sex with me. What? You know, I imagine that maybe it sounds like you guys just found a groove, but, like, was sexy talking about stuff part of your early relationship or was it something you developed into?

00:30:28:00 - 00:30:42:04

Max

I think in order to accurately answer that question, I would need to give you a little background on our relationship. Some of it is very unsexy, but I'll tell it as quickly and succinctly as I can.

00:30:42:04 - 00:30:45:17

Luna

We're here for the relevant bit so you can answer the questions.

00:30:45:19 - 00:30:57:10

Max

Yeah, well, we like sharing it with partners too, because it's a good insight as to who we are as a couple, but also why we are so slutty. Apparently. You know.

00:30:57:12 - 00:30:59:12

Luna

By societal standards.

00:30:59:13 - 00:31:31:06

Max

Yes, yes, yes. So when we got married in 2009, my wife started getting debilitating head pain. She basically had all day, every day migraines on one side of her head, on the left side of her head. Oh, and it was very, very difficult to deal with. I mean, she saw all kinds of doctors over, you know, 2 or 3 different states, and they prescribed her all kinds of different junk to try to numb the pain as best they could.

00:31:31:08 - 00:31:56:14

Max

I mean, she tried things like Alzheimer's medication and Botox and, acupuncture, anything under the sun that a doctor would think of to help someone with their migraines. They threw it at her. She had a couple surgeries as well. She had a nurse stimulator implanted on her forehead, and then she had, like, this kind of a battery the size of a credit card that was right under her skin, like right above her chest.

00:31:56:16 - 00:32:16:04

Max

We had a few different things with that, and it was like this new technology. She and doctors said like, oh, this, this will help for sure. That stuff didn't help either. During this time, I happened to have a pretty high sex drive. As you can probably tell. And during this time when she had migraines, our sex life wasn't that frequent because.

00:32:16:06 - 00:32:16:16

Luna

Yeah.

00:32:16:18 - 00:32:19:13

Max

Of course. I mean, have you ever had a migraine?

00:32:19:15 - 00:32:31:08

Luna

I luckily have not, but my best friend gets them. So I hear those details and I am just really grateful that I'm. Yeah, it sounds very unsexy and, like, impossible to function.

00:32:31:10 - 00:32:56:12

Max

Yeah. I've had a couple. I mean, my whole life I've probably had less than five migraines that I remember almost all of them because of how debilitating and painful it was. Yeah. So it's it's amazing to me that that she actually functioned in her life and in her career through that time. But we didn't have a great sex life during that time, had a great sex life in college.

00:32:56:12 - 00:33:16:10

Max

You know, we had sex a lot and had sex at skate parks in the car during a, thunderstorm. You know, all kinds of fun stories like that. So when we got married and she started developing these headaches, our sex life basically went to almost nothing. I would guess on average, we did it, like once every couple months or so.

00:33:16:15 - 00:33:36:04

Max

There's probably some periods where we went longer without doing it, but she basically had to get everything together to be able to do it. You know, to deal with the head pain. And I would have to kind of start several days before kind of preparing her for it, kind of getting her ready for it, even unsexy.

00:33:36:05 - 00:33:37:02

Luna

Yeah.

00:33:37:04 - 00:33:56:15

Max

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was tough. But the thing is, though, every time we did it, we would always come together. Even with a migraine, she could come, you know, which is amazing to me. But during that time, I asked her for an open marriage simply because I just wanted to have sex more. You know, she couldn't really hear it.

00:33:56:15 - 00:34:22:20

Max

I mean, she was in the midst of dealing with this incredible head pain and everything. We went to couples counseling. We learned how to communicate better with, conversations around sex and frequency and desire and all that kind of stuff. It certainly didn't help the frequency because she was still dealing with the migraines, but it did help us kind of talk through it a little bit and understand each other a little bit better.

00:34:22:22 - 00:34:43:18

Max

But I'm an actor, and eventually we decided to move to Los Angeles. Her company transferred her, and in the back of my head, I thought a new environment may help. You know her, her situation. She also has just terrible allergies. She's allergic to everything. So I thought maybe it's something to do with that, you know? But when we finally got out here, she saw a doctor.

00:34:43:22 - 00:35:05:18

Max

He looked over her chart. He talked to her for like ten minutes, and he was like, I think I know what you have, and if it is what I think it is, there's a very simple cure. It's just this really old medication that hardly no one uses anymore. But for whatever reason, it, it works for this. And she tried it and her headaches were gone within a couple days.

00:35:05:18 - 00:35:31:15

Max

She had had a constant migraine for like ten years, basically. And she got on this medication and her headaches were completely gone. And it took us a little bit to kind of get used to it. Like she didn't know if it would stick, you know, because she had tried a few different medications. And I think the newness of the medication sometimes, like, tricked her brain into thinking, oh, this is actually going to work long term.

00:35:31:17 - 00:35:57:21

Max

So it took her a while to kind of accept, oh, wow, my headaches are actually gone. And when that happened, she started getting super, super horny all the time. And it was also around the time that Covid hit. So we had nothing to do and nowhere to go. You know, just at home together all day, every day. And we basically just started fucking all the time.

00:35:57:21 - 00:36:39:18

Max

I mean, that many years into our relationship, we were learning about each other's bodies in ways that we had never learned before, because her headaches were so debilitating for all those years, we developed a really sexy relationship together, and we would have sessions that were hours long. We watched sexy movies together. We started watching porn together, and we started making our own videos together and watching them, experimenting with different things we had never experimented with before, like anal, and eventually conversations around that led to where we could do some stuff with other people too.

00:36:39:20 - 00:37:05:01

Max

And there's a lot of different reasons why I think our relationship specifically works for involving other people. I think even though we are super tight as a couple, we kind of operate individually a lot too, on different things. We definitely don't feel any ownership over each other's bodies at all those reasons, but also just some fun reasons too.

00:37:05:03 - 00:37:23:06

Max

I was like, Roxanne, you are so good at sucking cock, I want to see you do it to some other guys. Like, I want to see you blow some other guy's minds. She loves she loved that idea. And then, like. So that was one of the, the things that made us kind of want to explore it and try other things.

00:37:23:08 - 00:37:53:00

Max

It's kind of funny because all those years we never, like, fantasized about that. I personally, I've been very active imagination when it comes to sexual experiences and stuff, and I had never thought about couples swapping. I had never thought about being in an orgy or anything. But we kind of discovered together that we wanted to do it together, and she later told me that she thought that she needed to be the one to suggest it, because I had asked for her open marriage years earlier and she had said no.

00:37:53:00 - 00:38:10:15

Max

So she was like, you know what? I need to, you know, share that. I think this would be fun for us to do together. We just took to it. I mean, we didn't really need much, you know, dip in the toes in the water. It happened pretty quickly for us, you know, like starting to involve other people and having different experiences.

00:38:10:15 - 00:38:23:08

Max

And it's all very exciting and it's all still very, very exciting. Like I said, we started making our own videos and now she has an OnlyFans and we put our videos on this website called Make Love Not Porn.

00:38:23:08 - 00:38:26:18

Luna

Yes, I have interviewed Cindy Gallop, the founder.

00:38:26:20 - 00:38:27:07

Max

You really.

00:38:27:07 - 00:38:38:04

Luna

Cool. Okay, so you see, you do book, you do the only fans and the make. Well is it different content or do you use or is it like because she was very like docu you know very like just put the camera and then don't.

00:38:38:10 - 00:38:51:05

Max

Yeah. They actually have like suggestions for the kind of, videos that you submit on the website. And they don't like anything too doctored. They don't like anything to edit it. I think they say nothing presentational, actually.

00:38:51:07 - 00:39:09:14

Luna

Which is a very like for my autistic brain was like these rules are unclear. Like I can't understand the lines like the all of sex stories exist because I'm trying to understand the societal lens and I'm like, but by definition there is a camera there using non-consensual glory hole filming. I don't know, you know, like like how do you like secret camera?

00:39:09:14 - 00:39:17:06

Luna

What do you mean? My brain gets caught in binaries there a little bit, but okay, so you have like separate stuff you put on make Love not porn versus only fans or a different style.

00:39:17:08 - 00:39:18:15

Max

There is some overlap.

00:39:18:20 - 00:39:19:04

Luna

Okay?

00:39:19:06 - 00:39:30:00

Max

Like there'll be some videos that we put on Make Love Not Porn that are like a half hour of just us with the camera set on a stand, stationary the entire time.

00:39:30:00 - 00:39:30:10

Luna

Yeah.

00:39:30:10 - 00:39:48:16

Max

You know, and then with only fans, we'll do like some shorter videos, some point of view stuff with me holding the sound. And then when we find partners that are okay with them being on her page, you know, we'll involve them to. I think the criteria is a little different, but there is some stuff that I think overlaps both places.

00:39:48:18 - 00:40:10:04

Luna

So how would you like concretely describe someone without labeling you too much? But just so that kind of a feel for it sounds like couples and swapping. It sounds like yes to content co-creator, but that's not necessarily a priority. Or it's like there if it's overlapping, there's hotness. Or maybe they don't even have to be creators just willing to fill in the pieces for me.

00:40:10:04 - 00:40:19:03

Luna

Like, what are you guys looking for in terms of inviting other connection? And it sounds like you still do have a lot of sex with just each other. And do you still have a lot of solo sex with yourself?

00:40:19:05 - 00:40:43:20

Max

Yes. Okay. Yes. To all to all that. Yeah. I think as far as like what we're looking for because we get that question a lot when we first connect with couples on the app or, you know, wherever else, we really value new experiences, whenever there's an opportunity for us to do something that we've never done before, we normally want to do it because we've never done it before, you know?

00:40:43:21 - 00:40:56:22

Max

So there is a lot of that for sure. But we're definitely not a couple. That's like looking for a unicorn, you know? I mean, we we've been with some women that proudly state that they're unicorns and it's always super hot and really fun.

00:40:57:00 - 00:41:13:04

Luna

The way you're using that word makes me wonder if I have a different definition. There's just like a guest star coming into your relationship. Or do you mean like a third you would date? Or what do you mean specifically around unicorn or the concept of unicorn? Because I know it can be very hot button for people and I do not understand.

00:41:13:04 - 00:41:13:09

Luna

Quite.

00:41:13:10 - 00:41:21:17

Max

Yeah, yeah. And this is another reason why I don't totally like labels in general, because labels make people think a certain thing.

00:41:21:19 - 00:41:32:08

Luna

Yeah, but also just to push back as a brain who like, really, really loves to have the deep conversation all the time. People like her mystics and get exhausted when I try to, like, have the conversation to get specific.

00:41:32:08 - 00:41:33:05

Max

And clear every time.

00:41:33:05 - 00:41:49:13

Luna

So it's like, I don't know, they're helpful sometimes, but I agree, they're stupid and horrible and inaccurate because people project all over the place and don't check in to see if their definitions of labels match. And that's where. That's why I like to stop and be like, what does your version of unicorn mean in this context today? Yeah.

00:41:49:15 - 00:41:54:07

Max

To me it means a single woman that enjoys hooking up with couples.

00:41:54:10 - 00:42:11:06

Luna

Okay. Is it a woman though? Because I know there I have interviewed someone who who's a unicorn with a with a horn built in horn, and he had lots of other unicorn, but I don't know. I don't know if it's gendered there, but okay, so you're not set. You're not out looking for like a single third to join your partnership.

00:42:11:06 - 00:42:19:00

Luna

You're kind of open. Maybe it's one person, maybe it's a couple. Maybe we make content, maybe we don't. But maybe we have a great real time is kind of what I'm hearing.

00:42:19:01 - 00:42:42:06

Max

Yes, I think that there are certain relationships that we have with other couples where we do all kinds of different situations, you know, like we'll do a same bed couples swap, or we'll split off and do like dinner separately, you know, I'll take her out and then he'll take Roxann out. We'll have dinner separately, and then we'll hook up separately.

00:42:42:08 - 00:42:54:12

Max

And then we've done it where we come together afterwards. And we'll basically have have a swap. We've done it where we hook up separately, and then we send each other, like videos and stuff during. We kind of like that, you know?

00:42:54:12 - 00:42:55:16

Luna

Like what's fun? Yeah.

00:42:55:18 - 00:43:20:08

Max

Like the male and a male female couple will come over and we'll have a male, female, male, and then I'll be the guest. Yeah. At their place, you know, and we'll do a male, female male that way as well. We sort of enjoy where the opportunities are just endless. You know what you can do, you know, and you have to find people that kind of align with your mentality and have similar boundaries, I think.

00:43:20:09 - 00:43:32:01

Max

Yeah, and all that. But yeah, we really just enjoy the variety and doing things that we've never done before. And exploring things. There's stuff that we're into that we had no idea we would be into.

00:43:32:05 - 00:43:33:01

Luna

Like what?

00:43:33:07 - 00:43:36:13

Max

I mean, I like it when she saw me now. I never thought I'd be into that.

00:43:36:18 - 00:43:38:00

Luna

How did that come up?

00:43:38:02 - 00:43:54:12

Max

We kind of talked about it, joking. You know, she had a guy that she connected with. We hooked up with him a few different times who was very clear about, hey, if she ever wants to pee on me, I would love that because I'm super into that. And at the time we were both like, I don't know.

00:43:54:12 - 00:44:12:23

Max

That's, I don't know if that's in our wheelhouse, you know? But he didn't. Asking about it sort of got his thinking, sort of got me thinking like, I like, what is it about that the people really enjoy? And I just got kind of curious. So we had, like a play party at our house one Saturday afternoon.

00:44:12:23 - 00:44:32:04

Max

I think it was us. And then, two of our friends, single male and single female. So we had them over. That's another thing we really like. We really like introducing people. I mean, I really enjoy watching watching them talk after I've, like, introduced them. It's a big turn on for me. But we had to play party.

00:44:32:04 - 00:44:49:18

Max

There was four of us. I think I had already come once, but everyone was still playing and Roxanne said she had a pee and I just jokingly said, hey, do you want to be on me? And then everyone got quiet in the room and bold move. I kind of said it half way. Kidding.

00:44:49:20 - 00:44:52:00

Luna

But but halfway. That's the best way. Yeah.

00:44:52:01 - 00:45:12:05

Max

Yeah. And she said, okay, we've never done that before. So we went in the bathroom. We were giggling the entire time, talking like, how should we do this? You know, where should I lay? And you know, how do I position myself all this. And the two that we had introduced were fucking in our bedroom right next to the bathroom, one.

00:45:12:11 - 00:45:16:06

Max

So she peed on me. And it was it was great. I wait, what.

00:45:16:06 - 00:45:19:20

Luna

Was the results? What was the position? How did you lay?

00:45:19:22 - 00:45:37:02

Max

I lay down in the tub and then she kind of straddled me and kind of peed, like on my stomach. She kind of squatted down over it. Although now when we do it, we only done it three times. But now when we do it, I'll ask her to pee on my cock because I really like that. Oh no, feels rude.

00:45:37:04 - 00:46:04:02

Max

I like it because there's an anticipation. There's like a build up to it, almost like an orgasm. You know, where I'm laying there. And that is a position that I've never been in before, you know, like seeing, you know, pee come out of a pussy like that. Close. So the build up and then like, the visual of it and it just feels really nice and warm, you know, and because it's her, you know, it makes me feel good because of that.

00:46:04:04 - 00:46:21:18

Max

But after after we got done, we watched stuff in the shower and stuff, and then we went into the bedroom and they were still fucking. I was like, you know, Roxane peed on me. And they're like, we know we could hear everything you guys were saying. She was fucking. It felt sexy doing it and it's sexy remembering it.

00:46:21:18 - 00:46:39:01

Luna

Well, and it's such a beautiful illustration of like trying something new and finding that thing that maybe was an engine for. But you're like, I said it. Let's go for it. Yeah. Like it's. And that's what I think is so hot about play partnership. Right. Like people who are just I've been thinking a lot about irresistible invitations this year.

00:46:39:01 - 00:47:02:11

Luna

And what do I want to say yes to? And I really want to say yes to adventure buddies who are nice and sexy and sweet and kind and, you know, all of that. So I love that story. Okay, tell us a story now that kind of encapsulates for you nourishing connection like, well, it's a moment or a time or a suck moment where you know, where you felt nourished and your connection.

00:47:02:13 - 00:47:06:09

Max

We really like hot oil. I think we're really into that.

00:47:06:11 - 00:47:10:09

Luna

Define it in case we have a listener who's brand new to the term structure.

00:47:10:11 - 00:47:32:01

Max

To me, it's watching someone else fuck your wife and you're not involved. If you were involved, that would be something else. You know, that would be a threesome. But to me, it's like watching someone else again. That's something that I never thought I would be into. In the beginning. I thought, wow, that would just be weird if I was just like, watching, you know, and I wasn't involved.

00:47:32:01 - 00:47:56:18

Max

And it seems like that'd be really weird. But when I watch a man just really love on her and go down on her and praise her and please her, and then I watch her please him, you know, suck his cock and just do it beautifully. I'm laying on the bed next to them. I don't touch my soul. I have a few times, so usually I don't touch myself.

00:47:56:18 - 00:48:26:10

Max

Usually I just lay there and I just stare at her face. Those kinds of moments. We definitely feel compassion when we're both getting pleased sexually. We feel it, you know, like I feel that for her in that moment in the same is true when she watches me with a woman. So those kinds of experiences where, you know, she's getting fucked and I'm just laying on the bed next to her and just looking at her, we're staring into each other's eyes.

00:48:26:10 - 00:48:48:16

Max

We're connecting that way. Or when she's sucking someone else's cock and she'll like, look over at me and wink and like those things. I feel like when we have those experiences, it's like we're living the same sexual moment together and we create this bond that wasn't there before that. Answer your question, I feel like maybe that's pretty rambling.

00:48:48:18 - 00:49:07:06

Luna

Well, I think it's about nourishment right into your personal theme. On what does feel nourishing. I love that, and I think that's a really good story that encapsulates it, you know? And it also made me I mean, we wonder so many things, but okay, well, first I'm just going to ask you, what do you think makes you a great lover and be as generous as possible?

00:49:07:06 - 00:49:12:04

Luna

Be honest but generous. Like, why are you a great lover? What do you do? Well, what do you offer?

00:49:12:06 - 00:49:14:13

Max

I'm good at eating pussy.

00:49:14:15 - 00:49:21:23

Luna

What makes you good at it? Give me as many specific possible. Enthusiasm is usually the first ingredient. Right.

00:49:22:04 - 00:49:49:06

Max

Yeah. Well this is one of the things that is beneficial for a couple if they want to explore doing things with other people. Because I was always able to please her with my mouth and she was always super into it and she always came, but she comes really easily anyway. So when we started having swaps and I found that I could make other women come, you know pretty well too.

00:49:49:06 - 00:50:09:23

Max

That gave me a confidence that I didn't have before, you know, just being with my wife. And the same is true for her. Like when she started sucking other guys cocks. And she'll make guys come and they'll be like, wow, you know, no one's ever able to make me come with just their mouth. And she loves it. And I love it, you know, like learning about each other that way and stuff.

00:50:10:04 - 00:50:30:19

Max

So being with other people, I've learned that, like, I'm good at physical touch, you know, and I enjoy eating pussy and I'm pretty good at making women come that way. And I think that being in a relationship, you know, you learn to listen to each other on such a deep level. Nonverbal listening two, we.

00:50:30:19 - 00:50:32:17

Luna

May hope.

00:50:32:19 - 00:51:02:04

Max

Basically, when you take what you've learned from your own relationship and when you have experiences with other people, you take what you learned in your relationship and apply it to that new relationship, whether it's sexual or conversation or whatever. And it definitely gives me a confidence of like, wow, I know how to treat a woman. The thing that makes me feel really, really sexy about being a swinger or, you know, whatever you want to call us, what we do.

00:51:02:06 - 00:51:19:00

Max

The thing that makes me feel really, really sexy is that her and I are very open to doing lots of different things, and when people learn that about us, it turns them on. You know, if they think like, oh, what are the possibilities? I do, you know.

00:51:19:00 - 00:51:19:07

Luna

Yeah.

00:51:19:07 - 00:51:34:12

Max

Wow. You know what? What are you into? Can I do this like, oh yeah, you could do that. Oh could I do this? Yeah. Of course we do that all the time. You know, like it's time to be open and to say, yeah, we've experienced that stuff. And if you guys want to do it with us, we'd be honored.

00:51:34:14 - 00:51:42:08

Luna

So is that once you've already had the conversation and you know there are people you want to play with, it's kind of like wider opening or does it depend partner on a partner?

00:51:42:10 - 00:52:03:02

Max

Sometimes it can be a brand new relationship. You know, a first time meeting that we've, you know, never had with that couple or person before or other times it can be a couple that we've had several different encounters, experiences with. And then we talk about exploring something new together and that that can be fun too.

00:52:03:04 - 00:52:21:15

Luna

You're like a pair of permission givers slash play partner, you know, like you're like permission giving play partners. That's fun. It sounds like you're having a lot of straight ish experiences. Have you ever taken the guy on a date and the girls have that? Whether or not you end up, like, romantically playing with him or more, but like, talk about guys?

00:52:21:17 - 00:52:44:07

Max

Well, that's another thing that I never knew I would be into. I never developed crushes on any of my male friends, or I never really looked at another man and saw him as attractive, you know? And maybe a lot of that came from my programing, but really, all the experiences that I've had with males have been in a group setting.

00:52:44:09 - 00:53:18:01

Max

I've kind of learned that a group setting, if everyone is open with everyone else, if it's not just like male, female, male, female, but if it's just like everyone kind of on top of each other, essentially those are the kinds of experiences I've learned that I really, really like. Okay, more that I just go for. Yeah, it the first experience I had with a male was a couples type situation, and he just asked if he could touch me and I said yes, and I asked if I could touch him, and he said yes.

00:53:18:03 - 00:53:43:12

Max

And then we were both like, okay, this is all right. This isn't weird at all. This is cool, you know? And then from there, I became open to doing more and more things in that realm. And I've discovered what can happen that really turns me on. In particular, I really enjoy when, like, the other guy's wife will suggest that I do something or better yet, she tells me to do something.

00:53:43:12 - 00:54:07:08

Max

Oh yeah, then I'm all about it. Though those instances are the only instances where I interact sexually with another male. I haven't done anything one on one as of yet. I think I would be open to it if it was the right person, the right situation. But we actually had a really sexy swap with the couple a couple months ago.

00:54:07:10 - 00:54:30:06

Max

The guy kind of had my same perspective with bisexuality because I told him like, yeah, I'll interact with dudes and also cock and I like guys, suck my cock in everything. And yeah, I like kissing and all that, but I don't really feel bisexual because I feel like I'm not attracted to men. Like if there weren't any women there essentially, you know.

00:54:30:08 - 00:54:31:22

Luna

Like it's context is part of it.

00:54:31:23 - 00:54:53:03

Max

Yeah. And he said, I feel the same way. Like, I like interacting with guys, but I would never say I'm bisexual because there's not really an attraction outside of the sexual scene, if you will. Yeah. You know, so I'm still kind of exploring the depths of my brain, you know, where where I kind of sit interacting with, with other males, you know, in a sexual way.

00:54:53:03 - 00:55:15:18

Max

But, Roxanne, my wife is the same way. She likes being with girls, and girls love her. And I love that, obviously, because how could you not? But she has never done anything one on one with another woman. Maybe we'll get there at some point. Like we don't close our minds off to anything. Yeah, yeah. It's weird. It's like, am I LGBTQ now because I like to suck cock every now and then?

00:55:15:18 - 00:55:23:16

Max

Like, I don't know, I don't really feel like it. I still feel like I'm straight, you know? Really, the reason why I don't like labels, you know, it's just. Well, I was just somebody.

00:55:23:21 - 00:55:44:11

Luna

That I know. Know I feel you on all levels. And, I mean, I think it's always nice to be like, oh, yeah, we are actually all a little queer. Then maybe we will admit, maybe it's not about sexual flexibility, whatever. But it's like none of us are quote unquote normal. And I think us trying to, like, pretend like we're a normal is squishing all of our beautiful creativity and all that stuff.

00:55:44:11 - 00:56:04:04

Luna

But so, yeah, I would say yes, even if you don't feel part of a community and also you are creating your own hot, queerest, you know, flexible community with, with yourself in your explorations. And I'm having lots of like it's funny because I have fantasies about quads that are like, I would be with every other person, you know, like like kind of speed dating, but in a fuck sort of way.

00:56:04:04 - 00:56:16:13

Luna

And then those two and then those two and then all of it, which it sounds like you are have done parts of and maybe, you know, maybe you won't meet the right couple to you have like a everyone place so low in comparison contrast. That's my fantasy for you.

00:56:16:15 - 00:56:20:20

Max

Absolutely. They I take it and I'm open to it.

00:56:20:22 - 00:56:33:12

Luna

Is there other stuff on your I mean it sounds like you're open to opportunity, but do you have any specific things on your erotic and or creative bucket list besides that, that that feels relevant to talk about?

00:56:33:14 - 00:56:57:00

Max

You know, right now, in this moment? I, I'm very fortunate to say this like, there's nothing on my bucket list that I'm just, like, dying to do, you know what I mean? For me, at this point, it's more about what can happen. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And to be surprised, you know, and all that, that wasn't true when we first started involving other people.

00:56:57:02 - 00:57:11:12

Max

Because I had all these. Of course, I had all these things I wanted to try like, oh, I want to, you know, have sex with two women at once, you know, and I want a couple swap and I want to watch you do this. And we've experienced all that. It's an it's fun to be in the space of like, you know, expectations.

00:57:11:12 - 00:57:13:05

Max

You know, whatever happens happens.

00:57:13:07 - 00:57:36:21

Luna

Yeah. Okay. So take us through your formative timeline. You know, we've heard lots of really good juicy details already. But start at the very beginning for us. And just hint, you know, the milestones. I won't third degree you about every single little moment, but I would love to hear starting with the very first time you remember sex, feeling relevant in your life, thoughts, feelings, etc. in your own personal evolution.

00:57:36:23 - 00:58:04:04

Max

I feel fortunate in that all of my formative sexual experiences from, you know, being a young teenager all the way up into college and adulthood were positive experiences. I feel very lucky that the story of how I lost my virginity, I think it's just really, really beautiful. I remember like being at church camp and this girl that I really like just kind of pulled me into the woods, and that's the first time I made out with someone.

00:58:04:04 - 00:58:06:16

Max

That's the first time my tongue was in someone else's mouth.

00:58:06:19 - 00:58:07:18

Luna

How old were you?

00:58:07:20 - 00:58:32:02

Max

I was 14, probably something like that. I lost my virginity when I was 16. I didn't really have, like, a very active sex life. I guess when I was in high school, I had sex with four different girls, all of them just one time. But all of the experiences I can look back on fondly and all of them, I think I learned a lot from two.

00:58:32:04 - 00:58:59:11

Max

I lost my virginity the summer after I turned 16, and it was a girl who I used to go to school with, and I continued. She moved and I continued chatting with her on AOL. I think. Yeah, we just like talked and flirted via chat for months after that. And then she turned 16 and she got a car and she said, hey, I'll drive up and see you.

00:58:59:11 - 00:59:34:05

Max

You know, she lived for like a couple hours away, I think. So she drove to my house and my entire family was gone. We watched a movie together and we kissed, and we took off each other's pants the way that it physically happened to me. Losing my virginity was hurt, straddling me, essentially, and then her lowering herself onto me very slowly and kind of deliberately and it's so sexy for me to think about that.

00:59:34:06 - 00:59:34:13

Luna

Yeah.

00:59:34:15 - 00:59:56:07

Max

And of course, I lasted about five seconds. I went to the bathroom to clean up and everything, and then I came back into my bedroom, and then we did it again. And the second time was longer. It felt like, experimenting, like we were both experimenting, trying different things and all that. She actually, was not a virgin.

00:59:56:07 - 01:00:21:00

Max

She had had a boyfriend before, and she had told me about that and everything. And then afterwards, it was just a very lovely experience. I mean, both of us just were feeling positive vibes from it. And then she left and then we talked a little bit online afterwards, but then we just kind of fell off communication and it was really kind of beautiful the way that it happened.

01:00:21:00 - 01:00:38:12

Max

It's almost like we were meant to be together, to experience that together. And then after we lived in separate places and it's like, okay, now we go our different ways and we live our own lives. That's sort of how it felt to me. There wasn't any pressure of like a relationship like, oh, we've been together for a few months.

01:00:38:12 - 01:01:02:00

Max

I think it's time to do it. It wasn't necessarily spontaneous, but us like physically having sex, I think was spontaneous. But us being together in that moment, was not spontaneous. So that's maybe why I have such a good relationship with sex and and why I have always had kind of a high sex drive and, and try to explore that because I had a really good first experience.

01:01:02:02 - 01:01:20:00

Luna

Yeah. I mean, it's wild considering some of the background stuff, like, I've talked to so many different people and there doesn't seem to be a clear pattern between, especially if someone's raised with the religious shame situation that it sounds like you grew up in. Like, that stuff can be a lot for people, but it sounds like you're like, resilient and grounded.

01:01:20:00 - 01:01:35:08

Luna

When do you feel like you started to, like, understand sex or kind of like what was your unfolding like sexually? Was it like you were like, no, I'm good. And you got to partnership because we know a little bit about once you got with your wife, with that part of your life was like, but leading up to that.

01:01:35:10 - 01:02:10:00

Max

I had sexual intercourse with four different girls when I was in high school, and each one was only one time, and they were all different experiences, and they were all really good and really sexy, I suppose. But whenever I started having consistent sex with one person, which was my wife Roxann, in college, after we started dating, that's when I really started to kind of like explore what we could do, you know, and like what really turns me on and just how connective it can be.

01:02:10:01 - 01:02:26:03

Max

You know, I love talking to her about, like, our dorm room sex, you know, and I think, I think I mentioned earlier, like, there's one sexual memory in college that I have of, you know, sometimes our roommates would be in the room, so we'd have to get in the car and drive around town and find a place to have sex in the car.

01:02:26:08 - 01:02:46:20

Max

And as you do, that's fun. But one time there was just this torrential downpour, a big thunderstorm, and there was a skatepark kind of outside of town, in a town that we went to college. We drove to the skate park, pouring down rain. We fucked in the back seat of her car and it was. It was just a really nice memory, you know, it's just like, wow.

01:02:46:22 - 01:03:09:13

Max

And think about where I am sexually now, you know, it's like light years ahead of where I was then as far as openness and exploration. So there's lots of stories like that with my wife in college where I'm just like, oh, that was kind of the beginning of our of our development as a couple and our development as people that enjoy having sex together.

01:03:09:15 - 01:03:24:20

Luna

This is an impossible question for you, but it's coming from a very single, mostly single, most of my life person. Like, what is it like? I know you don't know any other way, but like, what is it like to spend a decade like your adult hood with a person? I know you're opening exploring, but like, what is it like?

01:03:24:21 - 01:03:28:01

Luna

How do you think about it or understand it or feel in it?

01:03:28:03 - 01:03:35:02

Max

For me personally, it's amazing and it's not easy. All the time. I mean, the communication thing is something you have to work at.

01:03:35:03 - 01:03:54:13

Luna

People seem so hard and I hear so many spouses saying things like, well, they're completely irrational in this way. That to me is a big fucking deal. And I'm like, well, maybe that's why I'm single. Like, oh, they just don't like you so hard. Like just communication. Yeah, it seems like you've worked. So yeah, yeah. Okay, sweetheart.

01:03:54:15 - 01:04:12:07

Max

We're fortunate to that because we did start dating when she was 18. I was 19 and we're both going to turn 40 this year. So we have been together as a couple in our lifetimes longer than we have not been a couple, if that makes sense.

01:04:12:11 - 01:04:14:17

Luna

Yeah. You hit the tipping point recently.

01:04:14:19 - 01:04:36:03

Max

When I asked for an open marriage during what we like to call the headache years, when she had headaches and we did counseling, it helped a lot with us, like communicating and trying to understand each other better, like her trying to understand my perspective on why I wanted to have sex more, and me understanding exactly what she was dealing with as far as dealing with the pain.

01:04:36:05 - 01:05:03:11

Max

And, you know, all the emotions that come with that. I mean, she battled some depression during that time, too, because she had a migraine that literally would not go away. So one of the things that really sticks in my brain as, to what the counselor said to us is that when you're with the same person for that many years, if you're both dedicated to the idea of growing together, that's when the relationship stuff gets really good.

01:05:03:14 - 01:05:39:10

Max

You know, when I have a problem, it's her problem as well, and she helps me solve it. When she is a problem. It's my problem as well, and I help her solve it. We have that kind of relationship with each other. And again, it's something that doesn't just happen. You know, you have to work at it. But also if you have a really strong connection with someone and you have the same core beliefs, which we do, if you have the same kind of perspective and understanding about the world and humanity which we do, you learn and grow together in really intense ways.

01:05:39:10 - 01:05:56:18

Max

And, you know, then especially if you're both woke sexually and you're both slutty and you want you want to try lots of things and do lots of things and explore lots of things. And you go through that together and you see each other evolve that way together. It's it's amazing. It's magical.

01:05:56:19 - 01:06:22:00

Luna

How do you think a world would change if that was the norm for couples? And like, if everyone was getting laid, if we could, like, look at each other's partners and be like, hey, cuties! Like, I wonder if we would have a larger feeling of community again, assuming it's the norm, right? I feel like we're in. There's so much like like the media seems to be really obsessed with the love triangle storylines in and I'm just like you guys, but what if we with an orgy storyline look, you know.

01:06:22:01 - 01:06:43:18

Max

Yeah, yeah, I fantasize about that very idea all the time. You know, I fantasize about a world where, you know, any man or woman could see my wife in a public setting and go up to her and hit on her, like, right in front of me, and, it's okay. It's perfectly fine. Because guess what?

01:06:43:18 - 01:06:54:21

Luna

I feel like there's a lot of ladies out there being like, no, don't hit on us more. But there's a few of us that are like, yeah, correct. I'm not property, you know? And it's like, it's so fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I hear I hear you on that.

01:06:54:23 - 01:07:05:20

Max

Yeah, you're right. But it makes me feel sexy. And it it makes her feel good too, that I enjoy it when other people find her attractive because.

01:07:06:01 - 01:07:10:15

Luna

They're so secure. It sounds like. Yeah, that's a beautiful thing.

01:07:10:17 - 01:07:39:07

Max

Yeah. To do what we do, it definitely takes some emotional security. It definitely takes some open mindedness and it takes communication. It takes talking through things, talking about what you don't like, talking about what you do, like talking about what you fantasies are talking about, what your boundaries are checking in with each other. I mean, even when her and I suck, we still check in with each other and me, especially because I'm usually the one in control, you know, like, are you okay?

01:07:39:07 - 01:07:48:22

Max

Is it okay if I hold you like this or whatever? You know, it's less now than it used to be, but, we really value that. We really do. Yeah.

01:07:49:00 - 01:07:53:03

Luna

What do you like about kissing and kissing? Mix?

01:07:53:05 - 01:08:06:23

Max

I just like kissing. It's so intimate. I love making out. Reminds me of being in high school, you know, in your sexual formative years. Plus, it's just so fun and playful and no two people kiss the same way.

01:08:07:01 - 01:08:07:11

Luna

Totally.

01:08:07:14 - 01:08:16:15

Max

Right? For whatever reason. Something that I really love is, when I'm fucking a woman missionary and I kiss her neck at the same time.

01:08:16:17 - 01:08:30:03

Luna

Okay, I agree, giving the neck kisses. Do you also like receiving them, too? Okay. Wait. You're fucking missionary and kissing the neck, so you have to be in, like, a certain shape for that. Elbows. Like, how are you? Yeah.

01:08:30:05 - 01:08:38:15

Max

Kinda. Usually I put my hand behind the woman's neck and kind of hold her secure like that. Yeah. And then I sort of have to kind of lay on her.

01:08:38:21 - 01:08:46:18

Luna

I got to learn these positions because I just did strap on for the first time, and I did a good job, but I'm like, now I got to learn all the penis positions, you know?

01:08:46:20 - 01:08:48:08

Max

Yeah. Congratulations.

01:08:48:10 - 01:08:51:23

Luna

Thank you. It was very good. So you're close enough to then be like.

01:08:52:01 - 01:08:57:15

Max

Yeah. Plus her ear is right there and I can whisper whatever dirty shit I want to.

01:08:57:16 - 01:09:00:15

Luna

Yes. Okay. Is that the sexy whispers or is that different?

01:09:00:17 - 01:09:17:04

Max

Sexy whispers? Yeah, I like doing that. I just like words, you know? I love any kind of exclamation that anyone has. Like, while they're getting fucked while they're fucking someone else. It's I, I like words, I like dirty talk a lot. It's all very sexy.

01:09:17:06 - 01:09:26:18

Luna

That's amazing. What about. But you like ass worship. We heard about licking earlier. Do you like also other things with asses?

01:09:26:20 - 01:09:45:15

Max

Yeah. For sure. Normally a really common form of foreplay for my wife and I. And she knows it. Like when we say, like, hey, you want to fuck, you know, we'll, you know, freshen up or whatever, and then I'll go into the bedroom and she'll be in the position with on all fours, just with her ass is high in the air.

01:09:45:15 - 01:10:10:02

Max

She can because she knows that's what I like. You know, in my formative years. And I've searched the depths of my brain to try to figure this out, too. But I was so into boobs in high school. I was so into boobs. I love, I love boobs still, like, how can you how can you not love boobs? But I notice a woman's ass first these days for whatever reason, like I'm most attracted to to that part of the body.

01:10:10:04 - 01:10:36:13

Max

So it has to do with that. It has to do with the jiggle of it. When you spank it, it has to do with how smooth it is and kissing it. And it's just the part of the woman's body that turns me on. It just is. I mean, there are lots and parts of the body that turn. Yeah, yeah, that one is it's probably the greatest in certain situations where we've had like a threesome male, female, female or in a couple swap situation.

01:10:36:15 - 01:10:48:00

Max

What I really like to do is I like to get the two women together and get their asses together, and then me and the other guy will massage and worship, kind of both at the same time.

01:10:48:03 - 01:10:52:23

Luna

I thought you were going to say Patty cake. I want to do patty cake. I love lining them up and just like doing Spanx.

01:10:53:05 - 01:10:58:04

Max

Yeah. You know what? That's on my bucket list.

01:10:58:06 - 01:11:01:20

Luna

Oh, if you do patty cake.

01:11:01:22 - 01:11:02:04

Max

I.

01:11:02:04 - 01:11:18:20

Luna

Will. I think that'll be very fun. I mean, obviously you have to have the right playful people, right? But. Or like. Yeah, drums. I was also going to say like, oh, maybe in group play, you should start checking out the boys butts too, because there's some good ones in. Boys love to criticize their butts good or this or that or God forbid they have about oh, it's so big.

01:11:18:20 - 01:11:26:09

Luna

Like nobody I hear a lot of boys criticize their own butts and it's garbage because I look at them and I'm like, we're good. But.

01:11:26:11 - 01:11:29:06

Max

That's good advice, too. That's very good advice.

01:11:29:06 - 01:11:52:04

Luna

I mean, just just you just never know what's going to open up. You sound. You sound highly arousal. You sound like someone I would definitely want to invite to a sex party. I think for me, it's about creating environments of respectful. Yes. Right. You know, and I personally am finding that I'm specifically turned off in some states where it's like, if someone's really picky about something like, whatever, we all have our preferences, but it's about how it gets voiced, right?

01:11:52:04 - 01:12:06:23

Luna

So I'm like, I want to have a yes. People at my sex parties. And I love that you had an afternoon delight play party. I think that's like hearing your 3 or 4 a.m. stories. I'm like, no, I'll never get it. But hearing you talk about afternoons and like, okay, people do it. I'm data collecting.

01:12:07:00 - 01:12:19:02

Max

Yeah. One of our play partners affectionately calls, calls it a brunch. And we'll meet another couple for brunch noon on a Saturday, a nice boozy brunch. Talk catch up.

01:12:19:04 - 01:12:20:04

Luna

Love another.

01:12:20:06 - 01:12:38:10

Max

And then, you know, we go to a hotel or to our place or their place or whatever and have a little play party. You can play for 3 or 4 hours. Yeah. And then, you know, it's like, okay, we need to go our separate ways and kind of have our reconnection time with our people. It's still like 6 p.m. when that happens.

01:12:38:10 - 01:12:47:14

Max

So there's all kinds, all kinds of time to to reconnect and reclaim and all that. So I love the energy of afternoon sex in person too.

01:12:47:16 - 01:13:04:00

Luna

I'm so much hornier in the late morning or afternoon as well. Like I can rally, but like also don't put a full dinner in me and then want to have a really intense session, right? Like I'm like, come on. I mean, I want to have a full dinner, but can that be my snacks afterwards, you know?

01:13:04:02 - 01:13:05:13

Max

Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

01:13:05:15 - 01:13:10:11

Luna

Okay. Are there any other like, specific favorites that we have to know about?

01:13:10:11 - 01:13:15:00

Max

Max I enjoy when people watch me come.

01:13:15:02 - 01:13:19:11

Luna

Ooh. Including on camera or in real life, mostly. Or all of it.

01:13:19:13 - 01:13:20:13

Max

In real life.

01:13:20:16 - 01:13:21:11

Luna

Okay.

01:13:21:13 - 01:13:34:03

Max

And on camera, I would say that I'm that person at the party that is definitely going to announce when they're about to come to everyone. Oh, and the reason is because I want to know when everyone comes meet, you.

01:13:34:03 - 01:13:35:03

Luna

Know, I love knowing.

01:13:35:03 - 01:13:35:19

Max

Everyone.

01:13:36:01 - 01:13:51:02

Luna

I've actually started inviting partners to tell me because it turns me on so much. And if I'm close, knowing they're coming will get me over the edge. Sometimes, as what I've been discovering. So that's my current experiment. That's hot. Wait, how do you say it, a partner? Are you like everyone I'm about to come. Or like, what do you do?

01:13:51:04 - 01:13:59:15

Max

I think that I'm inspired by the moment. Usually, but. Okay. Yeah, usually I just say it, very, straightforward. I'm about to come.

01:13:59:17 - 01:14:06:01

Luna

Love that. Have you ever ruined your own orgasm by announcing it? I have, but have you like to ask this question?

01:14:06:03 - 01:14:27:16

Max

I don't think I've ruined my own orgasm doing that. There's been a few times where I think the pressure of the situation gets to me a little bit. Like there's one time I'm thinking of in particular where, you know, I, I want to come and we're in a couple swap situation and I ask, hey, can I come in both your mouths at the same time?

01:14:27:18 - 01:14:31:11

Max

What used to be on my bucket list. But I've I've done it a lot now and it's super fun.

01:14:31:11 - 01:14:34:11

Luna

Bucket lists can have repeats, especially when you like the thing.

01:14:34:13 - 01:14:35:14

Max

Yeah, yeah, because.

01:14:35:14 - 01:14:37:09

Luna

It's different every time.

01:14:37:11 - 01:15:00:05

Max

It is. Yeah. But this one time I'm thinking of in particular for whatever reason, with them lined up and then the guy watching me like in anticipation for I just got a little shy for whatever reason. Oh, okay. That happens. Yeah. And I can totally I can go yeah. So that happens occasionally, but I never say that I'm going to come in then that ruins my own orgasm.

01:15:00:05 - 01:15:00:14

Max

That's never.

01:15:00:17 - 01:15:21:09

Luna

Okay. Oh yeah, I'll celebrate that. But also, since I just said yes to a few ads from Bluechew, which is a penis helper over the counter situation, I like to also balance that out by talking about penises and anxiety. Is it something you've ever experienced when you're stressed? Can you get hard when your needs are not met? Can you get hard?

01:15:21:09 - 01:15:34:18

Luna

Like have you? Have you ever noticed any connection between your emotions, anxiety, your physical body needs, your connection that maybe are connected to your penis just as a way to sort of like normalize what penises do?

01:15:34:19 - 01:15:57:18

Max

Yeah, sometimes I can get overstimulated and then it's tough for me to get hard. We've experimented with like ecstasy before with other couples and when I haven't done that drug a lot, but the few times that I have done it, it's always been in like, sexy situations where everyone's just hanging out naked, basically. And I love it and I feel super sexy.

01:15:57:18 - 01:16:24:10

Max

But for whatever reason, I can't get hard, you know, when I'm on that drug because I think I'm just too overstimulated. Or when we first went to the sex club, when we first went downstairs and just saw everything, I mean, you know, hundreds of people literally having sex and and being sexy and walking around naked and everything. The first time I saw that, it was like too much for me.

01:16:24:10 - 01:16:48:15

Max

I was like, whoa, this is a lot. I because I love watching people have sex. So it's almost like, can be there's places to look. Yeah. So do we get it? Sometimes there's situations like that where I just need to step back and take a minute. But for me personally, whenever I have trouble getting hard in a situation, the worst thing you can do is like, freak out and physically try to get yourself hard.

01:16:48:15 - 01:17:09:07

Max

The best thing you can do is just lay back, you know, just relax. Just a second. Take some time, breathe and watch the other beautiful naked people in the room, or you know, go on the other direction and use your mouth on somebody. Yeah. You know, and then if you just get back into it, normally it'll come. Yeah.

01:17:09:08 - 01:17:10:18

Max

Normally the erection will come.

01:17:10:20 - 01:17:27:16

Luna

If the person can let go of the fear. I definitely have been with partners that start to go down the spiral of that's all they focus on. I'm like, my nipples are right here though. My mouth is all over you. You know? I'm like, okay, you know, once, once it's lost, it's lost. Okay, Max, I would love your wisdom, your personal wisdom.

01:17:27:16 - 01:17:34:00

Luna

What do you think we need to make the world a more loving, connected place?

01:17:34:01 - 01:17:55:14

Max

Openness. I think we need to be more open with each other. I mean, I have a great fantasy, and I'm sure it's a fantasy of yours to to just live in more of a sexually open world, a sexually open society where we can talk about it more. And I think that we would all learn collectively that it is not black and white.

01:17:55:14 - 01:18:41:00

Max

It's not this or this. It's a very beautiful rainbow. Colors everywhere of everything that's possible. And all the different kinds of ways that people approach their sexuality and people's kinks and people's fantasies and desires and everything. If we could all just talk about that more openly with each other, that's that's a big fantasy that I have. You know, if there weren't so much, you know, censorship, I guess, you know, in, media and other places, I mean, it's there's so much shame around it, still around sex still after all these years and maybe we have made some strides, but there's stuff that can be done that get us closer to that.

01:18:41:03 - 01:18:44:10

Max

And your podcast is one of those things. By the way.

01:18:44:12 - 01:19:01:12

Luna

Thank you for saying that. I mean, also, as you're saying this, I'm like cringing because I'm like, yes, we have to be the change we want to see. And also, after five years, it's really clear that censorship is actually affecting this work. And so this is my first official recording as quote unquote X stories instead of sex stories.

01:19:01:12 - 01:19:18:03

Luna

Obviously, it's always sex stories at the heart of it. But I am branching out and also wanting to bring people who maybe won't talk about sex into the conversation if they are willing to talk about their other relational things. But I am so with you, and I'm like, well, everyone wants to have some sort of positive relationship with sex.

01:19:18:03 - 01:19:33:08

Luna

I have not yet met a single person. Like, nope, I don't need sex in my life like we all got here. Yeah, you know, like, you know. So it's like regardless of the relationship, even if they're like, oh no, I'm not participating. Or like, this is my relationship. It's like, I just want us to have the ease to feel good about those choices.

01:19:33:08 - 01:20:02:01

Luna

And I, I mean, as a girl who spent her whole weekend, like in the computer renaming most of the titles to be safer for work, so maybe we can get monetized or at least not censored on Spotify because it's. Yeah, it's a whole it's a whole thing. So I'm really glad to have you here doing this. I'm really inspired by your stories, and I'm trying to do my personal crack the code, in terms of figuring out how to have more delicious, juicy connections in my own life.

01:20:02:03 - 01:20:16:17

Luna

So I'd like to get your fantasy brainstorms. If you had to be a sex worker for two years, how would you serve? This is in a world where everyone must serve. You know, two years. This is our our civic duty.

01:20:16:19 - 01:20:47:02

Max

I have an idea in my head right now, and it's something that my wife, Roxanna and I have discussed, and it's honestly something that maybe doesn't exist, or at least not the way we're thinking about it. We would really love me and her together. Would really love to be like the couple that other couples go to when they want to learn about the possibilities of the lifestyle, polyamory, swinging, whatever kind of label that you want to tick.

01:20:47:02 - 01:20:58:00

Max

Because we have realized that we really enjoy that when we have experiences with people that are having like a first type of experience. Oh, I like that.

01:20:58:01 - 01:20:59:15

Luna

Your trainers.

01:20:59:17 - 01:21:21:15

Max

Yeah, we have been other couples first swap more than once. Like that has happened several times and it is gone very, very well, pretty much every time for both parties. So we really enjoy that. Like if there was and we do think there's a lack of education out there too, about the kinds of ways that you can explore with your partner.

01:21:21:15 - 01:21:43:18

Max

If you're interested in doing that, it's still very taboo, really. I mean, the whole idea of of group sex and polyamory is getting closer to being more accepted, but it's still pretty taboo, I think. So in a world where all that stuff was a little more open, we would like to be that couple, that kind of coaches, other couples, if you will.

01:21:43:20 - 01:21:45:11

Luna

I love,

01:21:45:13 - 01:21:47:13

Max

Yeah. Does that count as like sex work, though?

01:21:47:13 - 01:22:03:00

Luna

It would be cool to get all of your fucking, I think, I mean, in there, you know, they can. If someone could come hire you to, like, train them in that way, like, totally. I'm here for that. But my my big vision that doesn't exist yet is like, I want to make a camp, a sex camp, an educational sex.

01:22:03:00 - 01:22:24:17

Luna

Oh, go and try the things and then, you know, have wisdom. Come do it. I don't know have I don't know the answer. Yeah, yeah, that's my big vision. And on that note, you now have an unlimited budget to build your perfect playroom slash dungeon castle, whatever structure you prefer. What is it like? What are the elements that must be included in Max's play Palace?

01:22:24:19 - 01:22:25:23

Luna

Whatever it is.

01:22:26:01 - 01:22:47:16

Max

Well, we definitely want it to be a big enough area where we can have parties. Not like huge 200, 300 people parties, but, you know, like 40 people, maybe 50 people. So we want to be an area that, you know, we can get together people from our circle and introduce them in space and all that. Oh, there's got to be a group shower.

01:22:47:18 - 01:23:09:18

Max

I'm even envisioning like a lighting scheme in the shower, too. You know, it's always fun, like different lights. And there's like, patterns and it's very, very sexy. Maybe with, an observation window in the shower, you know, so people that are not in the shower can, can watch and see what's going on. We really enjoy making videos, as I said.

01:23:09:20 - 01:23:32:21

Max

And we fantasize sometimes about like having almost a movie night and then we can all hook up, I'll have a play party, but we can watch our sex videos. Other couples that are there, we can watch their sex videos. So I want like, like a big screen, you know, and we could just basically watch all kinds of different things to spark ideas.

01:23:32:21 - 01:23:39:17

Max

If someone wants to show off what they made recently, it can be like a show and tell type thing. That would be super, super fun.

01:23:39:23 - 01:23:41:09

Luna

I love that.

01:23:41:11 - 01:24:02:13

Max

I love the idea of having a space where there's lots of different kinds of surfaces that you can fuck on, you know, like all kinds of different stuff. Cool couches that can fit, you know, 20 people and six chairs. That's on my bucket list, by the way. I have not done the sex chair. I want to try that sometime.

01:24:02:13 - 01:24:04:07

Luna

Oh, you mean like a Tantra chair?

01:24:04:09 - 01:24:05:11

Max

Yeah. I've never done it before.

01:24:05:16 - 01:24:20:22

Luna

Well, you know, I have one. I found it on the street, but I. But I cleaned it very well, and it is, it's in very good condition. But I was getting along with my friend and she was like, stop the car now you need this. And I was like, what? And actually, I have not yet used it and I got it.

01:24:20:22 - 01:24:31:09

Luna

It'll be two years ago this week on Thursday. I've had it for two years, and I've only used it for photoshoots and hanging out with my girlfriends, but not like in a sexy way, so that one.

01:24:31:09 - 01:24:33:18

Max

Maybe should explore it on the anniversary.

01:24:33:22 - 01:24:48:02

Luna

It's on my book. You sign. Ooh, I mean, Thursday is measure a penis day according to one condom. So, there should be like, oh, there's your penis. I make 200. I should have thought of this sooner. Damn it.

01:24:48:04 - 01:25:18:21

Max

Got to be a good sound system in there. You got to have cool music, you know, like. Yeah, I want to feel the bass, but not so loud that, you know, it's distracting. Yeah. You know, gotta have a good sound system in there. I really like, you know, just sexy art to, you know, sculpture and paintings, conversations, starter pieces, you know, like a playroom where there's all kinds of different things that you could observe to, to spark conversation, almost like, you know, a museum aspect.

01:25:18:21 - 01:25:39:06

Luna

I was going to say, in my perfect world, it's a gallery exhibition that changes quarterly, and there's like a play party to kick it off, you know, each opening with the artist there and that's slutty artists only. So, you know, it's a very special that's like, exactly what? That's the top floor. First floor is like regular museum. Second floor is like all the furniture and stuff you're talking about in the top.

01:25:39:06 - 01:25:41:21

Luna

What is that? The gallery that's in my in my brain.

01:25:41:23 - 01:25:46:14

Max

Love it, love it. Yeah. You got to have a space for sex toys, too.

01:25:46:17 - 01:25:52:16

Luna

I was going to ask you about that because we didn't talk very much about sex toys. And you also like hands. But you like toys too. Like, what would you have?

01:25:52:18 - 01:26:15:23

Max

We like toys. Maybe not as much as other couples, but she loves butt plugs and I love putting them in her. I have a butt plug too. That, every now and then I get in the mood to put it in, and then I'll ask her to put it in, and she's always very excited to do that. But with other couples, you know, like we have a strap on, we have a few different double dildos that she's used with different women and stuff.

01:26:16:01 - 01:26:36:07

Max

We have, a lot of different things like that, little toys, you know, but it's it's always there by our bed, you know, and they're all clean. When people come over, we always say, you know, we have toys over there. If you want to use a toy to glass dildos, vibrators, lots of different butt plugs of different sizes.

01:26:36:07 - 01:26:48:03

Max

So I would want what we have now times like ten, you know, I would want like a wall of almost looks like a sex shop, you know, and you can just go and you pick whatever you want, you know. Yeah.

01:26:48:05 - 01:26:56:01

Luna

And somehow it's whatever you want to charged. All of them are always. Yeah, it's not my job to charge them.

01:26:56:03 - 01:26:57:13

Max

Yeah, yeah.

01:26:57:18 - 01:27:03:20

Luna

That's what I should get a this for I love that okay. Anything else in Max's Pleasure Palace, which is what I've done before.

01:27:03:22 - 01:27:27:17

Max

I kind of already mentioned this, but, you know, big screen where we could watch whatever they're having, like a movie night with, like, 10 or 15 people, you know, 5 or 6 couples, whatever. Wherever. Beanbag chairs or big plush couches, you know, red velvet, maybe. And then, you know, we watch a movie, maybe with sexual content together, and then we can all just have a play party right there.

01:27:27:17 - 01:27:36:01

Max

So it can kind of function as like, like, theater space, but also, you know, some something like that, like multi-functional. I think that would be kind of cool.

01:27:36:05 - 01:27:46:02

Luna

I love that you're a max after my own creative heart. I really feel all so amazing. Where can people find you on the internet?

01:27:46:04 - 01:28:11:01

Max

So we are on Make Love Not Porn, and our name on there is at the top of the world. That's our name. Or make love not porn. If you go to my wife Roxanne's Twitter, you can find anything you want to find linked on there. You can find her free OnlyFans or her pain OnlyFans and that is at Roxann underscore Max underscore on Twitter.

01:28:11:03 - 01:28:18:05

Luna

Awesome. And links are in the description below. Lovers. Max, thank you so much for being a guest on X stories.