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39 bisexual pansexual white female, she/her pronouns, non-monogamously partnered.

🔗 LAURA LINKS | @ramadei / girlsonporn.com

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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:25:16

Luna

And our guest today is a non-monogamous partner, the 39 year old bisexual, pansexual, poly relational female who grew up in Colorado going to a Unitarian Universalist church. She is into dirty talk, sexting and sex literature, pegging, switching and meditative flogging, Hitachi sharing and sex on psychedelics. A writer, producer and intimacy coach, you may recognize her voice because she is one of the incredible hosts of Girls on Porn, welcome, Laura Ramadei.

00:00:25:18 - 00:00:28:02

Laura

Thank you. It's wonderful to be here.

00:00:28:03 - 00:00:44:11

Luna

It is so wonderful to be here with you in person. We're doing some creative shoots after this. It's very exciting. I would like you to start off by telling us if you had to rate yourself today on a sexual shaming meter, with ten being the most full of shame and one being like, not me at all. Where do you fall today?

00:00:44:11 - 00:00:45:11

Luna

Right now?

00:00:45:12 - 00:00:46:10

Laura

Three.

00:00:46:12 - 00:00:51:16

Luna

Okay. When does it fluctuate? Or like, what has your shame meter coaster been like throughout your lifetime?

00:00:51:18 - 00:01:18:16

Laura

Oh boy. I think that generally I'm pretty low shame. And that's kind of what I've been able to provide other people is is destigmatizing things and helping them dismantle some of the shame that they inherited through either their parents or their cultures, or just expectations were put on them. And it can fluctuate because I have some of those cultures or expectations that are put on me, like through family, but pretty good at navigating them, like pretty good at feeling proud as opposed to ashamed.

00:01:18:18 - 00:01:19:00

Luna

And.

00:01:19:00 - 00:01:21:13

Laura

Awesome. So.

00:01:21:15 - 00:01:39:08

Luna

Okay, this is a new question that I'm testing out so you can workshop it if you want. You can be like, that's horrible. Scrap it. On the note of like kind of familial or cultural expectations. How do you think shame has affected your relationships and your sense of pleasure in your life so far?

00:01:39:10 - 00:01:53:16

Laura

Well, there are positives there. Right, right. I actually had a guest on my podcast who was from Poland and very like repressive religious culture and was like, but we can thank the Catholic Church for taboo because taboo can be really hot to leverage.

00:01:53:16 - 00:01:55:07

Luna

I am trying to understand taboo still.

00:01:55:09 - 00:02:14:20

Laura

So yeah, she specifically makes non-politician films. So she's like really harnessing a kink that comes out of that oppression, right? So like, there are ways that I miss a tad of the shame that I had. Like when I first started watching porn, it was so delicious because I felt bad or I was like, oh, I shouldn't be here.

00:02:14:21 - 00:02:35:04

Laura

Like, if someone finds out that I'm like, my roommate, here's me. Am I slutty in my gross? You know, and I've grown into just being, like, very much owning that kind of thing and learning that. That's actually like a fascinating, wonderful thing to share with people. Yeah. But there are times when I'm like, but everything's kind of bland now because it's all accessible.

00:02:35:05 - 00:02:56:13

Luna

Interesting. Oh, that's so interesting. Okay, so in this society that we live in, we're like euphemism and sometimes even like white lies that are supposedly polite, like what of those types of cultural norms do you think are helpful? And then like, what are the parts where you're like, let's, let's get rid of that white lies.

00:02:56:13 - 00:02:58:05

Laura

So say more what you mean by that. Like so.

00:02:58:06 - 00:02:58:12

Luna

Sort of.

00:02:58:17 - 00:03:02:01

Laura

Keeping things secret. It's like withholding kind of thing or.

00:03:02:03 - 00:03:32:07

Luna

No. So as a person who is a little bit on the spectrum and very straightforward and direct and literal in my thinking. Yeah, over the past five years of interviewing people about their sex lives, I'm like, oh, there's a thing there's a category that I personally label regular human lives, and it's those parts where it's like, you know, more appropriate to say, oh, they went to bed together than like, oh, they're fucking or, but, you know, it creates this place for secrecy, which in some ways is very sexy, but also in some ways is harmful.

00:03:32:07 - 00:03:54:20

Luna

And so I'm like, I'm curious if people are having experience with, you know, normalized basically like white lies in the name of propriety or niceness or politeness that is like actually that fucked up my own sex life. Because like, for me, if someone had just been straight up when I was younger was like, well, yes. Like as a woman, you can initiate sex, but there's going to be all this other stuff to it.

00:03:54:20 - 00:04:02:06

Luna

Instead of being like, if a girl wants sex and she likes boys, she should be able to have it, you know? So that's that's what I'm just like, unpacking now, I don't know if you have any thoughts on that.

00:04:02:07 - 00:04:30:00

Laura

Yeah. What a layered question because I think language is really fascinating. Right. So it feels like there isn't quite a short answer because sometimes it's the language we use to describe something is actually kind of fun. And I definitely believe in like privacy and choice. But yeah, like when it's like there's a thick layer of innuendo and we're not just comfortable saying what the thing is, then I think that's where it gets problematic, right?

00:04:30:00 - 00:04:51:09

Laura

Like we're like where we feel uncomfortable, just like saying what we need to. And I think it's a difference between, can I share this with a friend? Like, can I just be blunt? Like, I know that one of the things that strikes people about me is that I can be incredibly frank about, like, so here's the thing is, like, we're going on a date tonight, but I'm not gonna be able to fuck because I'm on my period and I don't like to fuck on my period first time.

00:04:51:09 - 00:05:18:06

Laura

And people like, wow, I'm like, find that really refreshing? Or just being able to talk about sex because I host a podcast like similarly, people will come to me with their problems because they don't feel like comfortable talking about that with anyone else. Yeah. So that's where the stigmatization like that's where I think the stigma is sucks because you feel uncomfortable navigating something or it like you're literally uneducated because everything is hidden in innuendo.

00:05:18:07 - 00:05:30:05

Laura

This is totally unrelated, but it just made me think of like, what's happening on social media right now, where we were sort of just talking about this before the podcast, but we're like, you can't say sex on TikTok like you have to say, say sex. And I'm like.

00:05:30:07 - 00:05:31:05

Luna

But it means the same.

00:05:31:07 - 00:05:48:18

Laura

You say, like, what I mean, is this helping? Because potentially, like, kids are still going to stumble upon, like they're going to find it, but just be confused. You know, like my mom read from a textbook in the 50s and said penis because she didn't know what a penis was or how to pronounce it. And it was embarrassing for her.

00:05:48:20 - 00:05:54:23

Laura

There's like a similar thing around, like, there have to be Zoomers right now who are like, just think sex is how you spell it. Exactly.

00:05:55:04 - 00:06:10:23

Luna

That's that's it. Literally the heart of kind of what I've been thinking about a lot lately, because I haven't been sure about how to kind of participate in the current culture, because I try so hard to follow the rules and they don't matter. They're arbitrary, you know? And I was thinking of it largely in terms of the education that we do get.

00:06:10:23 - 00:06:18:19

Luna

So I would love to hear about your sex education in your intro info. It had to do with church or at least part of it.

00:06:18:19 - 00:06:40:17

Laura

Yes. So in like around middle school, I started going to a Unitarian Universalist church in Colorado, but my mom took me to. We weren't a super religious family. It was more about her, I think, wanting to find community. And this was around the time when she was separating from my dad. So it was like a nice way to sort of build a neighborly sensation and with like a great organization.

00:06:40:22 - 00:07:09:16

Laura

This was an incredibly progressive church. Just to give some context, I think when I was in like eighth grade, they voted on whether to incorporate into their bylaws a statement about being inclusive of LGBTQIa people. At the time, we didn't have air, but we did have members of the church who were trans like, very openly and publicly. And so we voted on that, and it was unanimously accepted, except for one contrary vote.

00:07:09:18 - 00:07:36:13

Laura

So this was a this was a congregation in 98 that said, like, we would love to announce out loud that we are welcoming of the gay and trans community, etc.. So they offered a sex ed class when I was in sixth grade that was optional and was literally in the church basement, and it was coed, so it was boys and girls, and it was everything from being assigned to by a condom, like go out, find like get a condom somehow.

00:07:36:13 - 00:07:58:00

Laura

Like as a sixth grader, you can do it with your parents, you can try to find one otherwise. But you need to get comfortable seeking out and and finding contraceptives to like us having to build diagrams of anatomy of like the other gender, and just talking about incredibly candid things. They had a bisexual woman come in and talk about her sexuality and masturbation, and we were in sixth grade.

00:07:58:00 - 00:08:18:21

Laura

So I had a really great introduction to which a very frank sex talk and like, this is what it is. And like, you should ask these questions. You should masturbate to know what you like, like just a discussion that wasn't stigmatized again. So that did kind of set me on a path. Yeah. And I even kind of became a like the friend early on who was like, oh, that's not true.

00:08:18:21 - 00:08:25:12

Laura

When people would kind of pass forward information that wasn't right about STIs or whatever the case may be.

00:08:25:14 - 00:08:32:19

Luna

That's awesome. Do you feel like that is the reason that you are so frank now with dates? You're like, I'm not going to fuck with you. Like, I'm not gonna fuck you tonight.

00:08:32:21 - 00:08:54:00

Laura

Or there was it did. Yeah. I think I've just been talking about sex my whole life. And so it's, like, not uncomfortable, you know, like the culture and the family stuff I mentioned before is from, like, a specific section of my family and from, like, actually more recent in my adult life or is like, my mom was pretty influential in raising me to be comfortable talking about sex.

00:08:54:00 - 00:09:14:16

Laura

And while she was, like pretty clinical about it and she even, like, waited for marriage, she was still very open minded and progressive and able to, like, talk to me about things and encouraged me to approach things that way. She also like showed me a video that was like educational about like gay folks when I was like in fourth grade and explained what the word fagot meant and why we shouldn't use it.

00:09:14:16 - 00:09:37:18

Laura

And like so all of that came really early. And if anything, I became kind of like a crusader, you know, I was like very invested in not hurting people and and having like the correct information and, and saw that it was like this obsession with sex is like misguided or like just kind of was able to see through that much earlier than most folks are.

00:09:37:20 - 00:09:38:11

Luna

That's fucking.

00:09:38:11 - 00:09:39:16

Laura

Rad. Yeah.

00:09:39:18 - 00:09:52:00

Luna

Okay. I would love to hear. Now, what are your health and safety conversations with new partners like or repeat partners like, how do you walk people through that you usually wait for them to initiate. You initiate like what are your kind of needs in that realm?

00:09:52:01 - 00:10:14:13

Laura

I usually initiate like it's I feel like it's become kind of standard fare. Like if I'm engaging with new partners, it's often through something like field, or if I meet them in real life and it'll be like a quick touch base, like, hey, like three, like testing every three months minimum is kind of my policy. I use condoms with anyone who isn't my primary partner and like just kind of rattling that stuff off.

00:10:14:13 - 00:10:27:13

Laura

And it's not it's not a big deal. Oh no, it's easy. I think the more fun conversations are the like, what are you into conversation? That part is like, let's just do a logistical stop and then get into like, what? How do we want to play? Like, what do you like? Like that kind of thing?

00:10:27:17 - 00:10:37:20

Luna

Are you usually the one initiating those or do you get super turned on if a partner does? Because I feel like I usually start it and I'm like, I would like it if someone else, like laid the foundation.

00:10:37:22 - 00:10:59:08

Laura

It's a great question. I think I'm often initiating a lot of what I'm playing on my own especially. I'm often like a unicorn name. Like I enjoy doing that. I like to play with couples. So a lot of times I'm in, I'm like asking preliminary questions about their relationship and what it is that they're looking for, what their expectations are, what their experience level is.

00:10:59:08 - 00:11:05:17

Laura

And then it's like the what are you into conversation? And then it's like, by the way, testing this kind of thing. Okay. So yeah.

00:11:05:17 - 00:11:07:08

Luna

So you front load it with the fun stuff.

00:11:07:09 - 00:11:24:00

Laura

Yeah. Yeah. I kind of like I like to test to like to see what's worth it, you know, like that's kind of what I'm like. The conversation I'm having, if it's on an app is like, have you done this kind of thing before? You know, like what's like, what is your relationship? What are your boundaries in a relationship or what's the arrangement kind of thing.

00:11:24:02 - 00:11:46:15

Laura

And then that can open to like so it starts with like, is this sort of a safe place for me to proceed? Yeah. And then it's like, how could we potentially fit in or like play together. And then it's like, okay, so just to make sure we're all comfortable, it's like safety and then also deeper into boundaries and like, have you ever had an experience that sucked or like anything that like made you feel jealous or uncomfortable?

00:11:46:15 - 00:11:48:02

Laura

Like I get into that stuff too.

00:11:48:02 - 00:12:00:16

Luna

That's great. What are your kind of like? Especially for unicorns. If you're with a couple, what are your not? Safety is and health and safety, but what are you like needs from them energetically maybe in terms of what you'll engage with.

00:12:00:18 - 00:12:32:23

Laura

So I want to make sure that I'm not there to solve any relationship problems. I want to make sure that both partners want me there, that it's not like, oh, this person wants this more, and this other one is kind of going along with it. And it's ideal if they have experience. Although like if I get a good vibe from someone and like, feel like they're having all the conversations and they're doing it right, and like the reason they're interested in this, because a lot of couples are like, the woman might be queer and like, wants this relationship, but wants to play also as opposed to like, I'm getting a unicorn for my boyfriend's

00:12:32:23 - 00:12:49:08

Laura

birthday kind of thing. As. And then I like to talk to them about how they play or what they like, because I really like to cultivate a vibe and kind of like meet people where they're at. So it's not necessarily that I'm coming in and saying, here's exactly what I want to have happen, but I like to feel out.

00:12:49:08 - 00:13:12:15

Laura

Like, is it exciting for you to spoil me, or is it fun if we take turns spoiling each of you? You know, I really like to sort of create a connective environment with people where like they feel really free to play. But I can also kind of just throw out ideas as it's happening. And I think those like frank conversations where I'm like, would you like this or would you like that, like really help with that?

00:13:12:15 - 00:13:18:07

Laura

And then you get into it and people know it's fair game. So you can kind of just like move with your inspiration in the moment.

00:13:18:10 - 00:13:35:12

Luna

That is exactly what I aspire to in my connections, like the creative cool collaboration part of it. Like which is really and like you said, if I find the right person or the right couple and they are awesome at communicating, even if they don't have the experience, they can be like wonderful place buddies, you know?

00:13:35:12 - 00:13:36:05

Laura

Yeah, yeah.

00:13:36:05 - 00:13:50:11

Luna

Okay. Want to ask a really nerdy, specific question about health and safety stuff just because it's come up for me in my personal life a couple times, you know, so I've been like, yes, I use barriers or protections for anyone. I don't know that well or anyone who I'm not basically fluent bonded with. And I'll say I use the term.

00:13:50:11 - 00:13:51:01

Laura

Fluid, bonded.

00:13:51:02 - 00:14:12:15

Luna

With people. And then there's still are often moments because of the cultural norms where they'll, like, lick their hand and go to touch me instead of using lube, or where they assume that even though I said we're not fluid bonded, I take that seriously. That takes a conversation. They want me to go down on them, or they want to go down on me without protection.

00:14:12:18 - 00:14:31:14

Luna

Yeah. Is that something that you specifically call out ahead of time, or have you had any kind of like instances of that, like how do you handle that level of nuance? Because also I have herpes in my throat because I never use condoms for a blowjob in the past, and I have Deep Throat, I'm a slut. And we had the health and safety talk, but he didn't tell me that he had had unprotected sex, even though we had agreed that, you know.

00:14:31:14 - 00:14:33:08

Luna

So does that come up for you at all?

00:14:33:08 - 00:14:43:21

Laura

Which is a great question, because there's a specificity like that is a detail that often gets overlooked. Like I feel comfortable going down on people without protection. Like that's where my line is.

00:14:43:21 - 00:14:45:12

Luna

If you have the testing conversation, yes.

00:14:45:12 - 00:15:03:04

Laura

If we've had the testing conversation or they've disclosed like some, you know, like I'm comfortable with that within like reason essentially, or like with those other protections in place. So and it's a funny question about like it's a really detailed and good question about like licking your hand or like that kind of thing. Like, I definitely wouldn't.

00:15:03:04 - 00:15:05:18

Luna

Like touching their junk. And then immediately going to touch you.

00:15:05:19 - 00:15:23:23

Laura

Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Like I because I'm okay putting my mouth or having someone put their mouth on me without that barrier. Then things like that don't bother me. Like if someone's like licking their hand and putting it there, like, that's okay because their mouth is going to be there anyway, right? Right. But I totally hear you that that is tricky.

00:15:23:23 - 00:15:34:20

Laura

If you like, want to be using barriers and like dental dams, like incorporating more protection that like, yeah, it's easy to be like, whoops, you missed a detail. I'm like, what was the point of this barrier if we, like, broke it this way?

00:15:34:22 - 00:15:54:23

Luna

Well, especially at sex parties because for me, like if I've had a conversation, we've exchanged testing. I know the risk factor is great when I go to a sex party. That's kind of why I've stopped going lately, because in my opinion, it's pretty loosey goosey. Like, unless we're going to have like a contained orgy where I know everyone's health and safety, like, yeah, I want to kind of have more information.

00:15:54:23 - 00:15:57:21

Luna

So I've just been thinking about this more lately and how to kind of like.

00:15:57:23 - 00:15:58:12

Laura

How to navigate.

00:15:58:12 - 00:16:02:23

Luna

That without being like, yeah, you know, because I want to have fun too.

00:16:03:00 - 00:16:23:18

Laura

Yeah, yeah. Parties are hard that way because they often become really fluid really quickly. And the expectation is like condoms on dicks. But that's kind of it. Yeah, that can get dicey in like an emotional way as well as like a health and safety way. So yeah, it's a good point. I feel like that might limit you to like specific kinds of parties or going to those parties and saying, I'm playing with you and you.

00:16:23:18 - 00:16:38:07

Laura

But like not anyone else, which I think that's an easy way to handle it, because if you know that beforehand, like, I'm just going to limit my partners or I'm like going to go with plans ahead of time for like who I want to play with and let them know, like I want to use these barriers. So that means that I don't want to play with anyone else.

00:16:38:07 - 00:16:44:07

Laura

And if we're playing, you can't turn around and like, eat this person's pussy. And then like, come back and eat, you know, like, yeah, we're.

00:16:44:07 - 00:16:47:18

Luna

Like, let's do a little walk. Let's do our some risk factors and.

00:16:47:18 - 00:16:49:18

Laura

We can reuse.

00:16:49:18 - 00:16:51:02

Luna

Laurels. I always have laurels on hand.

00:16:51:07 - 00:16:51:13

Laura

Yeah.

00:16:51:14 - 00:16:59:12

Luna

Okay. So in your perfect world, what would sex Ed be like? It sounds like you got a pretty strong foundation.

00:16:59:12 - 00:17:27:13

Laura

I did, and I think the best form of sex ed would start earlier. Like, I love what they're doing in certain. Like, I don't know if it's the Netherlands or certain, like Scandinavian countries where, like, they're starting sex ed in an age appropriate way, really early to like, educate kids about their own privacy and their bodily autonomy and their safety and their anatomy before then progressing them into like, this is like going to provide this source for pleasure.

00:17:27:13 - 00:17:55:15

Laura

There are ways that this is going to be like culturally important and socially important and like educating kids on that because we do all just like run around and grab each other's genitals, like until we, like are educated about consent. And like I came up at a time when child bodily autonomy like, was under discussion. I think now that's massively shifting where totally it's a different thing where like if someone wants to hug you, like you give permission for that as opposed to your uncle just coming up and grabbing, you're like, whatever.

00:17:55:17 - 00:18:12:20

Laura

So I think that is really valid. And I know it scares the shit out of a lot of Republicans in the country because, like, you're teaching them about sex. I'm like, no, we're teaching them about safety. Yeah, like teaching them about safety early and then sex so that women can have pleasure, like people who have Vulvas can have pleasure because that's just not taught.

00:18:12:20 - 00:18:24:15

Laura

And that, like, we can learn about, like a full spectrum of sexuality as opposed to a very biologically functional view or an Ashton's view. Yeah. Of what sex is.

00:18:24:15 - 00:18:39:15

Luna

So yeah. And I think also for hetero normatively paired couples like the more pleasure the woman half of the partner is having, the more the penis owner is going to have, because it's way more fun. And probably one of the main complaints I hear, I don't know if you like hear this from your audience, is just like dudes.

00:18:39:15 - 00:18:41:02

Laura

Being like to me or you know.

00:18:41:02 - 00:18:48:02

Luna

What? You know? And it's like, well, it's all it's all of it together. Yeah. Any other things about education or for adults.

00:18:48:08 - 00:18:48:21

Laura

Or.

00:18:48:22 - 00:18:57:09

Luna

What? How do you think the world would change if we did what they do? But for adults, like, I had a sex camp here that's like my current, like, fantasy dream of mine. How do I make a sex can?

00:18:57:09 - 00:19:27:13

Laura

So, like, host a sex camp? I love that, I mean, that's a lot of what I care about too, is educating folks, because, yeah, I mean, I truly think that so much of the like I might be taking it too far, but like so much of the violence and the like, hatred and comments, there's just so much that's fed by a sexual repression because there are entire populations of like white supremacists and incels and like, however you want to label them, who like, largely what they're dealing with is massive aggression.

00:19:27:13 - 00:19:50:23

Laura

And like a lot of that comes from sexual frustration. Yes. I think if like these men had somewhere to better, like, work through what they're dealing with and like feel pleasure and feel freedom in their pleasure, they wouldn't be online like talking to each other, starting like violent uprisings. Like, I know that I'm like very much like reducing and simplifying something.

00:19:50:23 - 00:20:13:04

Laura

But I do think it's that important and that powerful because repression creates a resistance. And sometimes that resistance turns violent, especially when you're talking about like, masculine, testosterone fueled, like patriarchal. I'm not like toxic masculinity stuff where like that just gets carried out and now and it's like somebody sarcastic, like, just hold on. That's how it knife into a trash can and like, chill out.

00:20:13:04 - 00:20:31:09

Laura

Like the yeah, the abstinence, the like no, not November. Like all of those movements are directly tied to that, those kinds of like violent uprisings. Like there's so much connectivity between like those communities online that it's literally like, these guys just need sexual help. Yeah. You know, I think.

00:20:31:09 - 00:20:44:21

Luna

That's another what I would call a regular human lie is the idea that masculinity is this certain macho way and that, like, feelings are weak. It's like, well, no, actually, feelings help you get laid more satisfyingly, like one that brings our whole life up.

00:20:44:21 - 00:20:50:08

Laura

And also, like, increase your physical health, like your physical and the mental health, you know, how.

00:20:50:08 - 00:21:07:23

Luna

Can you have a good physical experience if you're physical containers? Not in good form. Yeah. Also, my other biggest pipe dream is everything you said. Imagine if it could be addressed by. And this is a very radical notion sex work, full service sex work being legalized and covered by insurance. Once you have all.

00:21:08:03 - 00:21:09:09

Laura

The incredible therapy.

00:21:09:09 - 00:21:28:20

Luna

I mean ideally once a week. But like, even if it was once a month, if people knew that they were going to get laid even once a quarter and like our world, think about the amount of like productivity, creativity, like what people would create if they were. I mean, just speaking for myself, I don't know if you're like this, like I get all balled up and crazy and like, hyper focused on what, am I going to get fucked again if I don't know when I'm going to get fucked again?

00:21:28:22 - 00:21:34:18

Luna

And until I have that, like, you know, answer to, I am distracted. Yeah. But then as soon as I get laid, I'm like.

00:21:34:20 - 00:21:42:12

Laura

Oh, I can do other stuff. Yeah, yeah. I just think that's like, it's genuinely like a human health issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:21:42:16 - 00:21:59:06

Luna

Okay, so take us through your personal sexy timeline with your formative experiences, starting with we heard a little bit about church. We heard a little bit about that. Was that the first time you had heard about sex? No, because we had the gay video. So when do you first remember becoming aware of sex and then take us through your formative experiences?

00:21:59:10 - 00:22:01:06

Luna

I also have your notes if you want to, like.

00:22:01:07 - 00:22:20:02

Laura

Oh, sure. I mean, I first became aware of sex as a child. Like, I think I just asked what doing it meant because I like heard that in kindergarten or something like that. Literally like an expression that I didn't understand. And then it was like explained to me that like, sex is something that like a physical act, essentially.

00:22:20:04 - 00:22:37:13

Laura

But it was very abstracted and like, you know, like I have like vague memories of picturing what I thought it was and it was literally like two people laying horizontal perfectly still, you know, like it was like a very strange, like, put your Barbies together and put them under the bed. And we don't really know what happened, but we're somehow intrigued that we don't know why.

00:22:37:15 - 00:22:40:15

Luna

So your Barbies were just flat laying on each other? Did scissor?

00:22:40:17 - 00:23:00:05

Laura

Oh yeah. I wasn't advanced enough. I was just like, no. I was like mashing them together. And then just like laying them on top of each other, like under my bunk bed or something, but like, well, you'll go in there now. I also have a memory and I'm not sure what age this is, but I think it's after that era of watching something where somebody was like, kiss.

00:23:00:05 - 00:23:24:06

Laura

And it was like the beginning of a sex scene, and I probably wasn't allowed to watch much beyond kissing, but it like, basically made me wet. And I was like, young and just asked my mom that I was like, I feel like something weird happened. Like, I feel like I like I something what happened basically. And she was like, yeah, that can happen sometimes when you're like, it just kind of explained that I was like essentially a sexually stimulated, but in a kind of more careful terms, you know?

00:23:24:06 - 00:23:25:03

Laura

Yeah.

00:23:25:05 - 00:23:31:15

Luna

I love your mom. I know that this is not your mom's sex stories, but, like, she seems cool as fuck. Do you have, like, progressive parents or, like, how.

00:23:31:15 - 00:23:33:16

Laura

How was she like that? She, to.

00:23:33:16 - 00:23:34:15

Luna

Whatever degree you think she's.

00:23:34:15 - 00:23:56:09

Laura

Comfortable with the answer. Yeah. I don't I don't think she would mind. I think she also had a great mom. I don't think she had a particularly progressive upbringing, but also not a particularly conservative upbringing, like her dad was a veteran and her mom was very, like, kind, generous. She grew up like, not with a lot of money, but in a big family where they, like, did their best and loved each other.

00:23:56:11 - 00:24:18:07

Laura

Although she like, waited for marriage, I think enough of the like hippie movement kind of rubbed off on her and she sort of she also was very dedicated to being a good parent and like, she actually was like a parenting counselor and taught parenting classes. So she was like reading all of the books and like, really dedicated to educating me in a conscientious way as opposed to just being fearful about certain things.

00:24:18:07 - 00:24:22:17

Laura

So she's always been pretty progressive. But yeah, it's hard to say. I've never asked her that I should.

00:24:22:17 - 00:24:42:00

Luna

That's cool. I mean, I would just be curious. Yeah, right. It's like I've started my mom has started sharing more bits and pieces as I have spent the last five years of my life devoting it to sex. And so it's, you know, interesting learning more about their upbringings, what was or wasn't normal. Yeah. Okay. So what else took place in your life that led you to.

00:24:42:06 - 00:24:42:10

Laura

The.

00:24:42:10 - 00:24:44:10

Luna

Sexy place you are today?

00:24:44:12 - 00:25:05:11

Laura

Okay. What else? So I've always been pretty independent, so I think I somehow, like I was never a very like boyfriend girl, if that makes sense. Like certainly had crushes and was like like on that train but also wasn't like didn't feel deficient if I didn't have a boyfriend when everyone else had a boyfriend or like, oh, I have to make this happen.

00:25:05:11 - 00:25:33:11

Laura

Like, didn't rush into any of that, but at the same time had this like pretty advanced sexual education. So like, I lost my virginity at 18 in Hawaii, to a relative stranger. And was it like it wasn't like prom. And we'd been dating for a year, you know, like I had basically a two night stand to, like, lose my virginity and or and listen, we can talk about virginity as a construct, but we could define a kind of weird sexual debut, recorded sexual debut in a big way.

00:25:33:12 - 00:25:56:15

Laura

Although I had done, like, blowjobs and that kind of thing like, before then. So, like, high school was kind of about, you know, trying to make things happen and experiencing things and being like, okay, did that like check that off, you know, like almost wanting to, like check off each base around like first base, second base system. And then I definitely spent a few years having performative sex because I wanted to do it well, okay.

00:25:56:17 - 00:26:00:07

Luna

Meaning virginity or like, like hookup before or like all of.

00:26:00:07 - 00:26:16:00

Laura

It post virginity. Okay. That's kind of what I'm talking about. Although I left out a key detail or like I was, I went to a small art school, like a magnet school and had like older friends. So I was like a freshman friends with seniors and juniors. And I heard someone talking about using their showerhead, and that was actually how I discovered my orgasm.

00:26:16:02 - 00:26:32:18

Laura

Okay. So like we were kind of talking about masturbating, like just like kind of getting into that. And this is like all kinds of progressive people, you know, and somebody mentioned the showerhead and I had one. So like that was how I discovered my first orgasm, which like turned into me just like obsessively, like two in the morning would wake up and be like, well, my mom, hear me?

00:26:32:18 - 00:26:46:04

Laura

If I just sneak into the bathroom and use a washcloth to quietly mute the water, hit me like it's just like sneaking around, just like a horny kid trying to use a showerhead. But then quick pause.

00:26:46:04 - 00:27:06:16

Luna

For details there, please, because I just, at a trade show, tested out womanizers new designed. They're not sponsoring this podcast. I wish they would. They were not interested. I didn't seem interested yet. But it's their first on purpose, for pleasure designed showerhead. So they like, combined with some German engineers. So has good regular shower. And then there's, like, a whirly thing and then another one that's more like.

00:27:06:18 - 00:27:08:15

Luna

Do you remember what your shower said?

00:27:08:16 - 00:27:32:14

Laura

I'm like, yeah, yeah. So that particular shower definitely had different settings. Definitely like high pressure. And I think it was like when the center ones are going with the like ones, the outside are kind of chilled out or like not activated at all. Yeah. And it was like the first like that kind of thing. Okay. Like just like a steady stream, like one that like rotates and then like one that's a steady stream.

00:27:32:15 - 00:27:50:12

Laura

That's cool. Although California's water laws doesn't do it for me because I need I need a higher pressure. Yeah. Like I went to buy a showerhead when I moved into my one of my first apartments in LA and I was like, why won't this shift to, like, I had to put together? I was like, oh, there's like limited water pressure in the desert.

00:27:50:13 - 00:27:52:17

Laura

So I don't really use that method anymore. I interesting.

00:27:52:20 - 00:28:01:13

Luna

I have, yeah, I have a different showerhead that has not done it for me because I really was specific. Like the first showerhead I ever had was my holy grail. Haven't found it again. It was like, yeah, a massager, you know, cheap.

00:28:01:13 - 00:28:03:04

Laura

Plastic one was whatever. But it had.

00:28:03:04 - 00:28:19:08

Luna

Three. Like it was like three main streams of water, but they would like. And I was like, yeah, you know, because I have a very sensitive clitoris. So like, anything direct is like too much. But then I need some pressure. So around it was anyway. Okay. So that's. Yeah. So you discovered your shower.

00:28:19:08 - 00:28:43:18

Laura

So I discovered my showerhead, but then it took several years to be able to come with someone else. So like, there was an era of the showerhead. And then I started using vibrators, which, like, originally I didn't like. Oh, but it's hard to say. But like, I've got one of those shitty like like Amazon Purple metal. Like just very cold, bony ass vibrators, right?

00:28:43:18 - 00:29:03:13

Laura

Like not silicone. And the vibration was, like, pretty rigid, I guess. Okay. Yeah. And I finally figured it out, but, like, I bought it, it almost ignored it after, like, trying it the first time because it was so far from, like, my experience, the showerhead. And then I kind of was determined and I was like, oh, actually, I can like figure out how to work this.

00:29:03:18 - 00:29:25:04

Laura

But then I was like, I should know how to do this with my hands and had to like, pivot to using my hands. And originally it was like, this is crazy. How am I ever going to do this? But it was like a learned skill. Yeah, I have like a not sensitive clit. Like I need a lot of pressure and like, a lot of, like I'd need an intense amount of, like vigorous movement or like an intense vibe, like that kind of thing.

00:29:25:06 - 00:29:46:03

Laura

So it was like stages of getting to know myself first. Meanwhile, I'm like having sex and faking a lot of orgasms. And then it came around to a place where I was like, I shouldn't be lying about this. Like I'm not doing anyone any favors, and I'm supposed to be this, like, sex positive, open person, like faking orgasms isn't helping those guys out, and it isn't helping me get closer to orgasm.

00:29:46:03 - 00:30:06:08

Laura

So I got more and more comfortable showing people like what to do. Like it became like a thing that I did with people where I'd be like, give me your knuckle. And I would like show them how much pressure and like how to move their fingers around. Like what? Like here's what could potentially work and then would teach them to do that on my clit and not even, like, takes a while because it's easy to like, find and lose the spot kind of thing.

00:30:06:10 - 00:30:19:22

Laura

But I really had to like, sort of fight for my orgasm with other people. And so now I use vibes and also like gently teach partners to like, get to know my clit and like it's kind of a combination.

00:30:19:22 - 00:30:20:13

Luna

But I love.

00:30:20:13 - 00:30:41:03

Laura

That it was kind of a like fight, you know, where I was like, I got to learn to be comfortable with this because it felt like I had a shy bladder, right? Like it just felt like putting something on display that was incredibly vulnerable. And I sort of had to work up to that comfort as well. Totally. But also just being patient and like, willing to say, like, this is going to take a while.

00:30:41:05 - 00:30:52:06

Laura

I want to show you how to do it. But like, don't feel bad if you can't right away because I feel like I have a hard time coming in like that, you know, and sort of protecting people's egos while navigating that to day. That is.

00:30:52:12 - 00:31:12:14

Luna

So much. It's funny because I hear so much of my own story, but a little bit different. It's really only in the last like two years that with new partners, I'm like, okay, give me your hand. Let me show you, you know? Yeah, I just use them as my toy now. And that's been like incredibly effective. But the words, even after so many years of talking to people, have always been hard for me.

00:31:12:14 - 00:31:24:05

Luna

You know, I still stumble over them and I still get stuck in those, like, words communication. And that's what you meant, the physical. When I learned about the knuckle thing, I was like, oh, genius, oh, I don't have to put their hands directly on my cunt right away. Oh.

00:31:24:07 - 00:31:26:06

Laura

There's another option. You knew about the knuckle thing.

00:31:26:08 - 00:31:28:06

Luna

I just learned about that in the last couple years.

00:31:28:06 - 00:31:32:03

Laura

Oh, amazing. I thought I invented that, like, I truly was just like, oh, this is the way to do it.

00:31:32:03 - 00:31:39:09

Luna

Maybe I heard it because I learned it from I can't remember who, but I learned it from a sex educator. Maybe. So maybe they heard you talk about some funny.

00:31:39:14 - 00:31:49:05

Laura

I mean, I hope I'm not the only person who's ever thought to do this, but like, it did just come to me kind of that. I was like, oh, this is kind of a hot way to do it. And I can like, literally do it in like a year, like, you know, Uber coffee shop.

00:31:49:05 - 00:32:06:21

Luna

Yeah. It's that's a really hot one of the hottest, like foreplay things that I ever had with a guy was I was like, I don't know. You know, there was a whatever situation that made me and I don't know. And then I remember he just was like squeezing the skin on my finger. Yeah. All my different ones.

00:32:06:21 - 00:32:24:06

Luna

And that was the first time where I was like, what is this energy coursing through my body? And that's when I realized Turn On could come in all these different ways. So you mentioned that you at some point were like faking orgasms as you were a sex positive person. When did you like, start identify? I mean, it sounds like kind of like throughout your whole life, casually were.

00:32:24:06 - 00:32:32:07

Luna

But yeah, professionally, how did that sort of started to work within your personal, you know, like what was the unfolding? Yeah. Did girls on porn start for you all of that?

00:32:32:08 - 00:32:40:23

Laura

What a funny. Yeah. So I was just kind of sex positive in a social way for years. Like I was the friend that people came to. I was the friend that was really frank about.

00:32:40:23 - 00:32:42:01

Luna

Casual sex guru.

00:32:42:02 - 00:32:58:16

Laura

Yeah. I just was like, I'm around, like, I'm happy to talk about this stuff. And like, that was just kind of who I was. I also was an actor at the time, and I played a lot of horrors. Like, I just very much like, understood. Like it's sort of a funny thing to say. In high school, I was doing like Lanford Wilson and Jekyll and Hyde and like, playing prostitutes.

00:32:58:18 - 00:33:01:02

Luna

Isn't that so funny? It's really.

00:33:01:02 - 00:33:01:09

Laura

Funny.

00:33:01:09 - 00:33:08:23

Luna

Schools are like, yeah, yeah, for art, they can do it. And then I'm like, I'd like to use that. Follow my heart and my passions, right? I'd like to. And then they're like.

00:33:08:23 - 00:33:16:02

Laura

No, no no no no no no no. Yeah. Not that well I did go to an arts magnet school. So it was also an incredibly progressive school, art school. So like but we.

00:33:16:03 - 00:33:17:16

Luna

Were other ones that they do.

00:33:17:16 - 00:33:36:13

Laura

It to like they're doing like rent and like pretending it's not about HIV, but like our school, we were very like, like open about that, you know, like we did Angels in America. We did it off campus, but like we did Angels in America, like we were insistently edgy and artistic, like we would sort of make a stink with the administration if they tried to sort of censor us, you know?

00:33:36:14 - 00:34:02:02

Laura

Yeah, it was a unique population or like school that way. But yeah. So like, I guess I was just always kind of open and sex positive and like it was always something I was sort of interested in. Like, I was really fascinated by the way that sexuality or repression of sexuality, like, works in different cultures, both like historically, I mean, like, who knows about past lives, but I, like, probably ran a brothel in 19, so you know what I mean?

00:34:02:02 - 00:34:33:23

Laura

Like, fuck yeah. I just felt some connection with that for like reasons I couldn't exactly explain, but just like, understood the marginalization of it on like a visceral level, maybe. And then it did kind of progress in my, like, artistic career. That was a big part of it. Like as a writer, I've written about a lot of sex positive stuff, obviously, and as an actor, I played a lot of those roles and then also had a couple of sort of formative things happen, like I auditioned for this digital series called A Unicorn Land, and was cast.

00:34:33:23 - 00:34:49:03

Laura

And I think part of what cast me in it was that I was, like, able to be really frank about the sex scenes and stuff, and essentially the premise of the show was that I was playing a young woman who had divorced young and was sort of going through her sexual reawakening on the other side of her divorce.

00:34:49:05 - 00:35:11:14

Laura

And each episode has a different couple that I'm unicorn ING with, and this is before I'd actually unicorn. So I really yeah, it was kind of like life imitating art as opposed the other way around. Okay. But I what was great is like, I learned so much about the community that way. And like each episode, it's kind of a pitfall or like a thing to avoid or it's like a way to have a lovely experience, you know, it's like, oh, this couple did.

00:35:11:14 - 00:35:19:11

Laura

And so these things which like, weren't fun for the unicorn was like this episode you can see like consent and caretaking and aftercare and like things like this.

00:35:19:11 - 00:35:19:21

Luna

Great.

00:35:19:22 - 00:35:24:02

Laura

Practice. Yeah. Like, yeah. It was wonderful. How's that.

00:35:24:02 - 00:35:26:05

Luna

Helped your unicorn or I guess you don't have a litmus.

00:35:26:05 - 00:35:53:16

Laura

Test, but. Well, this is like this sort of built the foundation for like before I was unicorn, I was like, I know what I don't want to do or like, I know, to avoid that kind of situation. And it was also like, literally crude and cast with a lot of people who are in the community. So there's like a sex party at the end of this series, like there's a final episode that is a sex party, and a lot of the background are actually just people that the creator knew from the scene and who were like, sure, I'll come get flagged on camera, you know, like happy to do that.

00:35:53:18 - 00:36:17:17

Laura

So it was a great introduction and kind of like continued to sort of usher me into that world. And then Girls on Porn came around probably a couple years after that, because I've been watching porn for a while. I remember a boyfriend just saying like, oh, on red to blah, but and maybe like, what is that? And like, I didn't know what like the aggregates were and then checked it out and was like, oh my God.

00:36:17:17 - 00:36:44:08

Laura

You know, like it was just like, I could just do this for free and like just got, like fully into porn, like before that, like it hadn't been like magazines, hadn't been like, really anything except for, like, chat rooms, you know, like Amy was like, oh, it's like I didn't have video porn in my life. Yeah, yeah. And like, I wasn't really looking for imagery on the internet, but was curious early internet, like dating myself, but basically like, around middle school is when those chat rooms were coming around.

00:36:44:11 - 00:37:01:21

Laura

So like you go in there and then you sext with someone and kind of learn by doing it. Like it was sort of this risk free way to try it. And like if you said something wrong or stupid like, who cares about, you know, but you hear people say things like, oh, I want to suck on your clit like it's a baby bottle.

00:37:01:21 - 00:37:21:14

Laura

And you'd be like, suck on my clit, You know, like you sort of hear these things and be like, what? What do you mean? You know, like, you sort of get more of a picture of, like, what sex might look like. So that was all I had before. I mean, in terms of like, consuming adult content before the free aggregates came around, when I was like, probably my early 20s.

00:37:21:14 - 00:37:45:02

Laura

Yeah. And I just started, like, watching red tube and Pornhub and, like, just popping on to those and finding scenes that were really hot when I initially started. Like I said, I was a little bit like afraid to get caught, like, is someone going to judge me as like this incredibly horny creature you know, like, this is maybe too much to, like, let people in on, but was also, you know, like, I don't know, is that woman safe?

00:37:45:02 - 00:38:04:10

Laura

You know, like, what am I looking at? This is basically like the YouTube of porn. And there were times when I was watching things and was like, oh, and like really suddenly uncomfortable because I couldn't see consent and like, it's all rapey and uncomfortable. And I met Rachel in an acting class years and years ago, and we were kind of friendly and just, like peripherally, knew each other.

00:38:04:12 - 00:38:19:22

Laura

And then we had mutual friends that would throw parties where we'd see each other. So we kind of like, got to chat more at those. And somewhere along the line, we discovered that we both watched porn and that we were basically like anomalies as women, as far as we knew in that, like we could trade with each other, but like, okay, so how do you avoid this?

00:38:19:22 - 00:38:36:09

Laura

Like, have you checked out Zach's confessions? Do you know about this? Yeah. And just started like, swapping tips essentially. And also like I tell this story a lot, but like, there was a party where I showed up at like 11 at night, and she, like, I came in and she ran up to me and she was like, I pegged because she had like just pegged that weekend.

00:38:36:09 - 00:38:38:12

Laura

And there was like no one else to tell I.

00:38:38:15 - 00:38:41:17

Luna

Okay, I didn't Peg, but I just used a strap on for the first time.

00:38:41:19 - 00:38:42:20

Laura

For the first time.

00:38:42:22 - 00:38:59:06

Luna

Wearing as a wear. Yeah. Thank you. So it was a fucking phenomenal dude. And so hot, like, just such a hot experience until I'm like, so maybe next time I see you, I'll run up to you and be like. I kind of feel like it's like. Like now that I have the strap on now, like, it's like, you know, so amazing.

00:38:59:08 - 00:39:03:10

Laura

Yeah. So it's harder than it looks, right? Oh, you think like it's going to be fine.

00:39:03:11 - 00:39:08:08

Luna

Well, so here's the thing though. I started working out consistently ish.

00:39:08:08 - 00:39:10:11

Laura

Not too much specifically to prepare for this.

00:39:10:12 - 00:39:28:17

Luna

No. But during the pandemic I was like, oh, physical performance. And because I also listen to the Huberman Lab, the neuroscience podcast, like, that's my favorite. And that really has helped me get my body and brain like it. And it's uplevel my sex life more than anything else. Because I'm a meditator, I exercise, you know, 30 ish minutes a day, five ish days a week.

00:39:28:17 - 00:39:44:16

Luna

Not out, not perfectly, but it means my baseline of strength and stamina. Like, I was like, baby, I can fuck you forever as long as you need. And I felt like I could and I was very, very sore the next day. But I was like, fucking her in really slow, like squatty, kind of like on the bed. And I felt.

00:39:44:16 - 00:39:59:13

Laura

As though I might have to, like, walk me through some positions because that's like, well, I had my stamina. Like, I literally need a pegging centric workout because I like, how do I feel like doing it? And then I'll be like, I got 30s of this left. Like, that's all I can give you.

00:39:59:15 - 00:40:03:18

Luna

I literally do chanties focused 25 videos from like forever ago.

00:40:03:18 - 00:40:04:04

Laura

But like.

00:40:04:08 - 00:40:07:17

Luna

That's what I that is what it it's a 25 minute workout. It is intense.

00:40:07:17 - 00:40:09:18

Laura

It like is it squats and that kind of thing.

00:40:09:18 - 00:40:21:06

Luna

It's a bunch of stuff. It's all bodyweight movements, so cats are part of it. I go at my own pace. They're too fast for me. I can't keep up, but I can definitely tell when my strength increases. You know, there's lunges, there's squats, there's basics. There's a lot of high knees.

00:40:21:10 - 00:40:21:18

Laura

Yeah.

00:40:21:21 - 00:40:26:00

Luna

You know, there's jumping. I don't do the jumping. I'll do the stepping unless I have my mat and I'm standing really.

00:40:26:00 - 00:40:27:07

Laura

But yeah okay. Amazing I need.

00:40:27:07 - 00:40:43:08

Luna

This. So anyway that that is to say that I connect when I started watching porn because my background is film school filmmaker, but not very much like mainstream TV cinema, anything. I just remember being like so taken out by a lot of the production.

00:40:43:08 - 00:40:45:13

Laura

Like you're saying, that's a lot of what we talk about.

00:40:45:13 - 00:40:51:06

Luna

On the production value. I'm like, and so it was very not sexy for me to be in producer brain most of the time.

00:40:51:06 - 00:41:04:22

Laura

Yeah, that was part of it is like, I would be looking for things that were like, authentic. I was watching a lot of like movie sex scenes because I was like, I don't need the meat shot. Like, I don't need to see the penetration. But I want to believe that these people want to fuck each other and that there's chemistry there.

00:41:04:22 - 00:41:25:14

Laura

And then I want, like, good shots so that I can actually lose myself in the sex as opposed to be like, so we chose this background, You're like, what's the lighting here? So those were the kinds of conversations that Rachel and I were having. And then she had a room open up in her apartment, and it just kind of popped into my head that I was like, man, we're going to talk about porn a lot and was like, oh, that's a podcast.

00:41:25:16 - 00:41:34:01

Laura

And I had no desire to create a podcast. Before that. I was like, no, when they do, like, what are we doing? Just like, yeah, you have.

00:41:34:01 - 00:41:34:15

Luna

To do it now.

00:41:34:17 - 00:41:49:17

Laura

I literally texted her and sort of pitched her the idea before I even moved in. I was like, I have a crazy idea. Feel free to shoot it down, but would you want to do a podcast where we review porn? And she was like, oh my God, yes. And then our friend Amanda came on board. We were kind of telling her about the idea.

00:41:49:17 - 00:42:06:05

Laura

She's a producer at Seth Meyers and was like, oh, this is incredible. Like two hot women talking about porn, like it writes itself kind of thing. And we basically, like, broke out segments, like we had like little ideas for how to structure the show. I was running a theater company at the time. I was a theater producer. And like, it was like a podcast is easy.

00:42:06:05 - 00:42:27:07

Laura

We just need mics and I'll figure out how to edit it and like, we'll put it together. But it's not like I have to hire designers and build a set, you know, like, this is incredibly accessible production. So we set out on that path. But then Amanda had a friend at Seth Meyers, was a writer and who also had a podcast and was like, you should pitch this to had gum, because Jake loves corn and like, they'll probably go for it.

00:42:27:07 - 00:42:44:07

Laura

And it was like the very early years of this still flourishing podcast network. So we literally just got in a call with them and kind of like pitched it and like told a couple jokes and they were like, we're in, you know, like, wait, like we also made them a demo. Like we did a sort of sample episode and, and sent it to them and they and we've been working with them ever since.

00:42:44:07 - 00:42:45:22

Laura

Fuck, yeah. Yeah.

00:42:46:00 - 00:42:55:14

Luna

Damn. So okay, here's a question for people who are like, brand new to porn today. Yeah. Where do you recommend they start? Like how do you recommend they navigate it?

00:42:55:16 - 00:43:23:05

Laura

Well, I definitely depends on the person. Right. Like so I'm, I sort of ask if there's anything specific they're looking for because I don't want to like send them into the deep end. But like some really accessible sites that I often recommend for people first are like pink label pink labels, a vast network or like curated site essentially shine Louise Houston manages it, and shine Louise is one of the few women of color who runs a platform like that.

00:43:23:05 - 00:43:39:15

Laura

And she did Crash Pads series years and years ago. So she's very big in the queer porn space and just curious. A ton of other porn. So like, it's great. You can go there and you can kind of search anything. So if I have a queer friend who's like, wait, there's porn for me, well, where do I find it?

00:43:39:16 - 00:43:58:17

Laura

Like, I don't have to go too deep being like, well, are you looking for pegging? Are you looking for lesbians? Strap on stuff. Are you looking for trans that, like, I don't necessarily have to interrogate what they want because I can say, like, try this larger site and then you might find creators there that you want to subscribe to separately or that you want to watch regularly, but you can like search by terms there.

00:43:58:17 - 00:44:21:04

Laura

You can look at categories or you can just like generally browse. I also recommend the lesser to a lot of people. They have a section behind a paywall, but they have a lot of free content. And that is more where I send like women who are dipping into porn for the first time. And I would say like more mainstream women, like more like I'm married, but I want to watch porn and I'm like, I like to bake and I'm white.

00:44:21:06 - 00:44:44:05

Laura

Like, if you like that kind of person, I'm like, okay, here's stuff that's like, it's going to have a little bit of story. The production value is going to be decent. All of the people are going to be conventionally attractive, but it's going to prioritize the woman's pleasure. If someone's like, I'm super fucking kinky and I don't know where to find my pour, and I'm like, kink.com, you know, like so there's kind of like different platforms for each thing.

00:44:44:05 - 00:45:03:13

Laura

And I like we really encourage people to pay for their porn. But yeah, there's nothing wrong with like going to Pornhub and just like seeing what you might be into, the only thing I warn people against is it's incredibly overstimulating. Like if you haven't been watching porn and you go to the aggregates, unlike the free sites, it'll potentially ward you off porn forever because it's so intense.

00:45:03:13 - 00:45:10:14

Laura

So there's like so much in the ads are nuts. And you're like, I don't want to look at this like, I'm just trying to, you know what I'm saying?

00:45:10:16 - 00:45:21:09

Luna

Back to your personal story. At the point in which you were cast as a unicorn, did you already know about your bisexuality, like in your or pan sexuality, like I did, and you discovered.

00:45:21:11 - 00:45:48:04

Laura

My bisexuality and sexuality? I mean, same thing. I like to say bisexual only because I feel like bi didn't get it today. Meaning like being bisexual when like lesbian and gay movements were coming to fruition. You, like, weren't gonna. And so like, bisexuals were marginalized even among the queer community. So there's a part of me that's like, I want to be a bisexual because I'm closer to that generation and sort of like feel a fondness for it.

00:45:48:04 - 00:45:50:16

Laura

But I'm also pan like, I it's not that I'm not pan.

00:45:50:16 - 00:46:14:14

Luna

I've heard it discussed in a couple different ways, like bisexual reality is inherently inclusive, right? Because if there's gender queerness, it's like, yes, no, everyone is included in that term. And I've heard some people specify that pan sexuality specifically means I get attracted to that single person. So there is a lot of overlap. Yeah. And sometimes for some people they mean the same thing and sometimes they mean opposite things.

00:46:14:15 - 00:46:15:16

Luna

Yeah. Anyone who I talk to.

00:46:15:16 - 00:46:32:23

Laura

People try to like draw distinctions between the terms. Like you're really just talking about connotation. Yeah. So ultimately it's like that person's choice what like resonates with them. Yeah. And part of my resistance to pan sexuality isn't anything to do with the definition and more. Just the fact that, like, that word didn't exist when I started making out with girls.

00:46:32:23 - 00:46:34:04

Laura

Yeah. So it's like.

00:46:34:04 - 00:46:36:00

Luna

When did you start making out with girls.

00:46:36:01 - 00:46:46:05

Laura

Years ago. Like that was so that was happening. And I think part of my sort of internalized bi erasure was around how I could just make out with girls. Yeah. And I didn't have to be bi to do that.

00:46:46:05 - 00:46:47:18

Luna

Everyone likes women. There's like, you know.

00:46:47:18 - 00:47:09:05

Laura

We all think tits and ass are great on women. Like, don't we all like to make out with girls? And so I didn't feel like I needed to identify that way, or like I didn't really interrogate it. Right. Like I just kind of was like going about my sexual life. And I also like, was doing a lot of that in a sort of Venn diagram way of like, I'm doing this because it's fun for me.

00:47:09:10 - 00:47:27:05

Laura

I'm also doing this because it's performatively fun and I'm like sexy and impressive for the people that are watching me make out with these girls, because that's some of it was happening. And actually it was a guest on her podcast who goes by Gab, Alexa Online, and gab, who talked about, like, being queer enough. That was kind of something branded.

00:47:27:05 - 00:47:51:14

Laura

And I heard that and I was like, oh, fuck. Because I think what I felt like undeserving of was like, I can claim this sexuality because I've had sex with enough women to say that I qualify. Yeah. So like if you've had sex with 30 men and two women, you're like, do I get to be queer? Like, that was kind of what I was asking myself.

00:47:51:16 - 00:48:12:16

Laura

And then it was like so obviously pointed out to me that, like, sexuality is about impulse and not action, that therefore like, proves your sexuality. And I also was like, why am I afraid to take up space with this? And some of that was like, oh, I'm, I'm not repressed. Like, I don't need to come out because I don't need to, like, take up space with this, like quite literally.

00:48:12:18 - 00:48:29:08

Laura

And then I came out and did so initially with like friends. And I told my mom and like, I was kind of telling people and then came out to my dad, and that was quite difficult. Like, that's the sort of family issue that I mentioned before because he became born again in my adult life. Whoa. Okay. Yeah.

00:48:29:10 - 00:48:50:22

Laura

So his politics were sort of murky and then like, secret, not secret, but like, he didn't he was more conservative than he let on. And my mom kind of took the lead with political conversations and he just kind of followed her lead. And then they divorced. And then years later he became Christian. And when he became Christian, I was like, oh, no, like, you're going to your politics are going to change.

00:48:50:22 - 00:49:10:22

Laura

Because he was a Democrat as far as I knew. And and he was. But now he's anti-abortion and he's anti-gay. And like, it was a whole it was a thing to come out to him. So I think I realized in hindsight that that was part of why I waited, like, I almost like didn't want to deal with that mess, even though we didn't have a great relationship.

00:49:10:22 - 00:49:26:08

Laura

And it wasn't necessarily that I was like, I'm going to lose my dad. I just was like, oh, like, I don't want to bother, you know? Yeah. But then I was like, people should know that I'm bi. I want to be dating women. Like, why would I be keeping this a secret? And then eventually told him, after telling a lot of other people and then like, dealt with the fallout, basically.

00:49:26:12 - 00:49:28:05

Laura

Damn. Yeah.

00:49:28:06 - 00:49:31:09

Luna

Okay. So have you dated a lot of women since then? Like I would.

00:49:31:11 - 00:49:36:13

Laura

Say, like a lot. I like a lot of women. Okay. Because I.

00:49:36:13 - 00:49:54:11

Luna

I'm still like, I haven't dated a lot of well, I guess it depends on your definition of date. I haven't been in committed relationships with more than a handful of people. Part of that is because I'm pretty happy as a single person, but also part of it is like, I think if I was going to settle down with someone, I could make a good case for a pussy owner.

00:49:54:15 - 00:50:11:03

Luna

Yeah, but there's so much more complicated in terms of emotions, which is what I struggle with human rights anyway. But I'm like, if I had one that just wanted to tell me what to do and we could communicate, that'd be good. But in terms of exploring that part of yourself and like hooking up with ladies and couples, like, what has that been like for you?

00:50:11:03 - 00:50:34:13

Laura

Yeah, well, that's part of what brought me to non-monogamy, because I was dating a guy a few years ago, and things ended and I was like, kind of relieved because I was like, I don't feel done dating women. And I had, like, just started, like, I'd just come out to my dad and I'd really only, like, started to date a few women here and there and like, like I've never had a full relationship, like a big relationship with a woman, basically.

00:50:34:15 - 00:50:54:01

Laura

And so when that ended and I was like, oh, you I don't, I don't have to like, take this whole thing out of my identity that I still wanted to explore. I was like, well, hold on, you know, like, why would I ever have to kind of thing? And started becoming more curious about non-monogamy and like, oh, that makes a lot of sense.

00:50:54:01 - 00:51:06:06

Laura

And I wasn't necessarily thinking about it. And just to like, oh, I could date a guy and like, date women or have sex with women just to, like, satisfy that part of myself. It started to unravel all of those conventions and like relationship expectations that we take for granted.

00:51:06:06 - 00:51:08:20

Luna

Regular human lives. Yes. Or norms at least.

00:51:08:20 - 00:51:11:05

Laura

Yeah. Norms. It's not like it. Like it's just.

00:51:11:06 - 00:51:12:03

Luna

The way we should be.

00:51:12:04 - 00:51:35:11

Laura

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting because we are told like we have to be that way. And then you really interrogate it and you're like, this doesn't actually make any sense. Like, the thing that I love about non-monogamy is like thinking about it as, like, the same way you would friendship. Like, you could have best friends, but you can have multiple best friends, and you can have people that you see sometimes and you really adore, and then people that you prioritize or that are like very much entrenched in your life.

00:51:35:15 - 00:51:52:10

Laura

Yeah. And so I started thinking about it like much more from a theoretical standpoint and like listening to the podcast and doing the reading and like kind of just getting more interested in that. And that was also around the time that I was unicorn ING. So I was also like just becoming more aware of how I was engaging with couples and what their non-monogamy looked like, and how do I fit into that.

00:51:52:15 - 00:52:07:23

Laura

And this is even before I knew about, like, couples privilege and like my autonomy as a unicorn. Like I was kind of happy to just be like, I'm just going to pop in and pop out and never even thought about like, oh, what if I want to date this person and the couple and not this other one of the couple in, like, how does that work out?

00:52:08:01 - 00:52:23:08

Laura

And then it was also around that time that I met my current partner. And so that's partially why, like I do want to say that like he's been prohibitive of me having more relationships with women because he's very much like encouraging of that. But when you're in relationship, I'm like less eager on that, see, like admit. And then that's like exactly.

00:52:23:09 - 00:52:26:17

Luna

Like functionally monogamous. If I feel really satisfied.

00:52:26:17 - 00:52:47:15

Laura

You know, and like, we definitely like, have other people and date around, I find it definitely harder to meet queer women on the apps. And also, I do think that a lot of queer women are deterred by the fact that I have a partner and like a lot of them, want either monogamy or a more intense kind of relationship as opposed to just dating, you know, and like, you know, so there's all those factors, but they're.

00:52:47:16 - 00:52:49:20

Luna

Like, I can't bring my you up.

00:52:49:22 - 00:52:53:21

Laura

I mean, I don't want to stereotype entirely, but like, I learned this theory and.

00:52:53:23 - 00:53:10:18

Luna

It was some of my queerest friends that were like, no, no, I like it. It can be tricky. You have to understand, it's not always true. But like, stereotypes exist for you. Because I'm always trying. Because I'll get too specific about like, but in this exact moment, you know, and then I can't make any assumptions. Plastics can help.

00:53:10:18 - 00:53:11:00

Luna

Yeah.

00:53:11:00 - 00:53:14:18

Laura

And it is my gayest girlfriend is who? You know, it's absolutely true.

00:53:14:18 - 00:53:17:23

Luna

Like, A-list girlfriends is a great title and needs to be a something.

00:53:18:00 - 00:53:37:01

Laura

Yeah, but, like, it was like a married lesbian couple that I'm friends with who called out, like, another lesbian couple in friends with who were like, you literally moved in after a month. Like, what are you talking about? Like, you see those stereotypes like played out for sure. And I am like, it's not a bad thing. It's just like relationship preferences and ways that we're socialized and the things that we want.

00:53:37:01 - 00:53:54:05

Laura

And it totally makes sense. And I can understand genuinely a woman being like, wary of like, I don't want to share this woman with a man. You know, I get that. That's like, not necessarily what someone wants. A lot of people want, just like pure monogamous companionship. And that's all power to them, you know? Yeah, yeah. Whatever works.

00:53:54:08 - 00:53:54:16

Laura

Yeah.

00:53:54:16 - 00:54:01:15

Luna

I would love to hear some of the specifics of your experiences. Unicorn. Whatever. It feels like, you know, the best and worst. The turn ons and turn off. Like what?

00:54:01:21 - 00:54:02:07

Laura

Yeah.

00:54:02:13 - 00:54:02:22

Luna

Give us the.

00:54:02:22 - 00:54:27:14

Laura

Highlights. I mean, we'll luckily, like, I think because I sort of got that sort of crash course through shooting Unicorn Land. I haven't had a lot of terrible experiences. I think the worst that can happen is like if you're kind of dating a couple and there's like a long runway, like I've had a couple situations where I've gone on a couple dates or like hung out with people a few times and I haven't been sure.

00:54:27:14 - 00:54:44:01

Laura

I was like feeling it like I wasn't sure if I like, wanted to put all the energy into dating them or ultimately, like decide to fuck them. Like I'll kind of do stages of dates, right? Like I'll start with like a video to be like, let's just screen and make sure that, like, the vibe is right, like literally half an hour.

00:54:44:01 - 00:54:59:12

Laura

And I kind of now do that with anyone I meet. I know now because I in the pandemic and like, you know, like the pandemic kind of made that a norm. But I also was like, oh, this is great because how many times have you been on a date in the first five minutes, you're like, oh no, you're just not the person I had in my brain, and you're so far from it.

00:54:59:12 - 00:55:07:15

Laura

And like, I could have laughed. But like, now I feel like I have to give you two drinks and like, I don't even think there's a friendship here, you know, like.

00:55:07:17 - 00:55:14:18

Luna

I really would push for the normalization of being like lemon law and then just running away, you know, five minutes for like, yeah, so much. This is a lemon law for me. I'm going to go you.

00:55:14:18 - 00:55:15:15

Laura

Know it's fun. Yeah.

00:55:15:15 - 00:55:17:21

Luna

Like this is your time getting out. Yeah.

00:55:17:22 - 00:55:33:15

Laura

You're still like put in the face. Like I just was like it's so great to just like, hop on zoom and be like, hi, I'm who I say I am. I'm so like, yeah, let's do it. And like just making sure that they kind of they match up to the profile essentially, and that there's some element of vibe.

00:55:33:17 - 00:55:50:16

Laura

And then I'll kind of follow the couple's lead on like, do you want to get a drink? Do we feel like we could maybe, you know, like it almost is like, how strong does the chemistry feel? But sometimes it'll be like, let's grab coffee. And like, I think I'm getting better at knowing sooner whether I want to jump into something.

00:55:50:16 - 00:55:55:10

Laura

But there were definitely a couple times where I was like, kind of trying to give people a chance and would.

00:55:55:10 - 00:55:56:20

Luna

Like jump in, like sex wise or whatever.

00:55:56:20 - 00:56:15:03

Laura

Yeah, jump in sex wise, because with couples I'm usually like, that's usually the basic idea. Like, I don't really want a third and another relationship and don't really want more than like, we're going to hang and be friendly and fuck. But like, I don't need to feel intimately entrenched in this. And I also don't need a certain kind of like emotional gratification from this.

00:56:15:03 - 00:56:36:05

Laura

Like, I don't think that's what I like about it is it feels like a job without homework, or it feels like something I can just go play and then I'd be like, can I leave you? And like, there's no Google emotional baggage. Like there's not a lot of like, maintenance, essentially. Like I can kind of dip in and out and like, be this really exciting guest star and then go home, you know?

00:56:36:07 - 00:56:53:03

Laura

So a couple times it's been like, okay, we had the video date, we had an initial date, and then we had another date. And then I was like, I don't think I need a fuck you guys, you know? Or like, we had a great dinner. I knew in that dinner that I didn't want to fuck them, but like, or maybe I wanted to fuck her but not him.

00:56:53:03 - 00:57:12:18

Laura

And like, I don't know if it's worth it to say that much to them or like, you know, like our if I need to fuck her that badly to, like, hurt his feelings. Like, let's just not bother. Yeah. And occasionally and people will be like, hurt or like disappointed by that. And sometimes it's like you've got to get like, messages and like voicemails from, like, everybody being like, just like, thank you.

00:57:12:18 - 00:57:36:04

Laura

But like, we like your choices here it but you're like, okay, we're good. Like we don't need to drag this. Like, yeah. Just like I think every engagement has a certain level of emotional caretaking that's required, even if it's like this is really about sex. So that's kind of the worst of it. But that's not bad. It's just like me managing my bandwidth and like, anticipating, like what is worth it.

00:57:36:04 - 00:57:54:21

Laura

And I don't really need to be, like, looking for anyone right now because I have these people that I play with and they're great and low maintenance, and we have a great communication. So like, do I really need to like, go down this path with these other people because I'm also not someone who, like, needs to be on a date every night or like needs to be like constantly discovering new people.

00:57:54:21 - 00:58:05:03

Laura

It's more like this fun puzzle of like, oh, I have this person that I love and this person that's kind of a friend with benefits. And then like, maybe these couples I see like once a month or something.

00:58:05:05 - 00:58:20:22

Luna

Okay, so that's an important point. What are the energetic pieces or kind of like titillating crumbs that get you to a yet like an enthusiastic, that's a yes for me, whether it's a couple or a singles. And also just like, how much do you like to get fucked ish, if that's an answerable question for you?

00:58:21:00 - 00:58:38:18

Laura

Yeah. I mean, how much I like to get fucked varies. Again, it kind of has to do with like my bandwidth otherwise. Like sometimes I go through phases where I really happy to hunker down and not be, like going out a lot. It's also nice to have people you're like, I know who you are. And like, we have fun playing together.

00:58:38:18 - 00:58:51:11

Laura

So it's nice to see you every couple weeks and not have to do the new groundwork of like, yeah, I gotta go find somebody else, which was like, hey, I would love to get high and fuck and like, watch a movie. And then I'm going to go home, you know, like a little bit of that gratification can be great.

00:58:51:13 - 00:59:17:16

Laura

I also play with my partner and it can be really wonderful to have like a friend that we share and like we'll have like a special night, like, come on over and we're going to like, make it really nice for you and spoil you with like, treats and drinks and like a fun high hang and then fuck. And then there's like emotional connections, which can be more like I essentially have like an anchor partner who I'm very much in love with, and that provides like a lot of satisfaction on the emotional front.

00:59:17:18 - 00:59:42:15

Laura

So like for me to add more of that to my life would be dependent on the person and would be really like, okay, this is a really strong connection as opposed to just like, this is a friend who I like to fuck, right, right, right. You know, and it's interesting, like I think I do saturate like at around like two partners and like different sort of investments in each of them, plus a couple couples here and there.

00:59:42:20 - 00:59:57:07

Laura

But I'm definitely not going on like dates every night. Like even when, like my partner leaves town for big stretches of time. So like that also works out well that I can be like, okay, you're gone. I'm going to focus on work, but I'm going to see this couples that night once this week, and then I go see my friend with benefits.

00:59:57:07 - 01:00:00:05

Laura

This week. And like, it can literally be like once or twice a week.

01:00:00:05 - 01:00:09:10

Luna

Oh, you just help me realize I think I do want a partner who travels for blocks of time because I'm so autonomous. But I love close connection. But I need some fucking bridge.

01:00:09:15 - 01:00:23:23

Laura

I'm very much the same way. Like I like a certain amount of independence, but I also have this desire to be like, very close and like to spend a lot of time with this person because I love them and I like, really enjoy their company. But I'm also like, no, it's good for both of us to like, get this time separate.

01:00:23:23 - 01:00:43:09

Laura

And we're so conditioned not to think that that's normal or good, but it's like kind of delightful. Another regular human lie. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. To be like, we can craft this however you want and I can, like, work flexibly over here. I can come visit you. I can stay here and like, you can see your people over there, and I can see my people over here.

01:00:43:11 - 01:01:04:03

Laura

And it's like, all great because it has this, like, diversity built into it. It keeps things novel and exciting, and we have people that we can share, but we and like parties that we go to and like fun adventures that we can have, but also like this wonderful way that we can be generous and like, invite each other to do other things and like root for each other, but also like feel this grounded thing at home.

01:01:04:03 - 01:01:23:13

Laura

Like feel this. Like I have this person who is making sure I got home safe and like this person who's cares about me and my like, work. And the thing like the larger things that I want to make happen in my life. And there's this person that just like, intimately sees me and loves me and like, that's wonderful to have while also being like, I'm going to go be a slut.

01:01:23:13 - 01:01:25:14

Laura

High five. Like, see you later, you know? Okay.

01:01:25:15 - 01:01:42:20

Luna

Yeah, yeah. Okay. I want to talk to you about, like, dirty talk sexting and, like, sex lit erotica, like, you know, and you're a writer, too, so words are important and powerful. What do you like? I don't know, favorite ways to use them. Like, how do you think about it? And or does it factor into like, your kinky parts too?

01:01:42:20 - 01:01:55:19

Luna

I want to talk about your switching bits. Like, yeah. How like maybe start with words and then we'll get into switching things. But sometimes, like words are the heart of a Bdsm relationship too, right? Yeah. Part of the dynamic or whatever. So tell me about your relationship to sexy words.

01:01:55:19 - 01:02:18:17

Laura

I guess you were sunbrella here. Yeah, I love I definitely had like, a little bit of anxiety about dirty talk when I was younger because it was like, what if I say something stupid and like, I think all of our is like our imagination of what dirty talk is supposed to be was kind of at this height of like, and then I'll the caress you like big words and throbbing members and like words we don't use in real life.

01:02:18:20 - 01:02:45:13

Laura

Yeah. So it was kind of a big moment to discover that, like for dirty talk purposes, whether we're talking about like vocally or in a written capacity, you're literally just talking about what you want to have happen. And like, that is so hot. And I like, love it in person because you can talk about like, things that just happen, things that you want to have happen, like memories of sex together or literally just like describe what's happening.

01:02:45:13 - 01:03:05:02

Laura

And if you take the burden off of, I have to use big words or be incredibly eloquent, it's really fun because you can just like add to the heat of like what you're doing. I also really love sex, and I think I fancy that I'm good at it because, yeah, I'm a writer, so I like feel really comfortable writing quickly and just like, articulate quickly.

01:03:05:04 - 01:03:22:16

Laura

But it was a similar discovery where I was like, this is actually just an imagination playground. Like, I can literally just think about what I want to have happen and tell you that from start to finish. Like, I want you to walk in the door. I want you to bend me over the kitchen counter, take the kitchen gloves off me and throw them.

01:03:22:17 - 01:03:48:18

Laura

And then I want you to get on your knees and, like, spread my ass off. Like I'm just literally thinking, like, beat baby. Like, what do I want to have happen? And then just articulating it and getting as, like, detailed as I possibly can. Because that's also like how I used to masturbate before I discovered porn is I would kind of just be like, what do I would fantasize very literally and very specifically about, like what could happen with this person and what would that look like?

01:03:48:18 - 01:04:13:05

Laura

And where are we? And like, do they come into the room and I'm in there and like, do they grab me and like push against the what? Like that really turned me on. Like I have a very active brain that way. So being able to sex with someone that way is really, really fucking hot for sure. So it's really like matter of fact, it's just about like diversifying terminology, like not just saying like cock every time, but being like, world's a different kind of thing this time.

01:04:13:06 - 01:04:29:09

Laura

But being specific. And it can be really hard just to like, have that kind of conversation about what you're both into. Like, that can be the dirty talk on field when you're like, okay, so you're into this. Like, what if it was this? And then you kind of give some details and they're like, oh fuck, that's hot. And then suddenly you're like sexting essentially.

01:04:29:11 - 01:04:39:13

Laura

But you're also just like getting to know each other and like warming up the situation. But you're literally just talking like you're having a consent conversation, essentially anything. Yeah.

01:04:39:15 - 01:04:51:13

Luna

Do you find in those situations that your desire for a specific someone like I feel like, like how do you know when you want to do a certain thing with a certain someone? Right. Because my desires are so attached to.

01:04:51:18 - 01:04:52:12

Laura

The person.

01:04:52:12 - 01:04:55:03

Luna

Who they are. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's specific.

01:04:55:05 - 01:05:12:18

Laura

That's true for me too, that like, a lot of my impulses about, like, meeting people, like, because I'm not turned on by the idea of, like, I've come with a fantasy and you're not into it, you know, like, I've never, like, let me go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Make you fit into this box so much as it's feeling that out and seeing like, oh, here's where something aligns.

01:05:12:18 - 01:05:13:14

Laura

Yeah. Where's the like.

01:05:13:17 - 01:05:14:03

Luna

Especially.

01:05:14:03 - 01:05:15:07

Laura

For like this entire.

01:05:15:07 - 01:05:29:03

Luna

Play, right. Like. Yeah. Like the person I'm going to dominate is very different from the personal submit to. And I am not a person who will switch in a scene or maybe even with a partner. I don't experience that. Yeah. Yeah, maybe like, you know, it's just something I have not yet experienced. So I don't have a template for it.

01:05:29:03 - 01:05:38:14

Luna

And right now I'm like, I typically feel like, sorry, I know you're never going be able to hold space for me or, you know, but I'll be in charge of you or vice versa, right? Like I.

01:05:38:14 - 01:05:57:07

Laura

Don't. Yeah. I would say being swishy in a more fluid way is more of a recent discovery where like, I've been somewhat dominant or somewhat stubby, but like, haven't played too heavily in power dynamics, like a little bit. But again, I sort of like meet people where they're at and haven't necessarily been like, I'm so kinky that this is the way I want to fuck, you know, like I'm kind of meeting people there.

01:05:57:07 - 01:06:15:01

Laura

And I've had different experiences within a sort of tighter range. But like in more like the last couple of years have played around more and been dipping a little bit deeper into the community in LA and being like, oh, you know what? I do want to try that. Like, yeah, oh, you have this person here like, let's see.

01:06:15:03 - 01:06:38:21

Laura

But also being sweatier with specific partners where it's like, you have an idea or like sometimes an impulse like I've had where I've been, like, I just feel like I'm getting an energy from this person that they want to dominate me. And I have like enough trust with them. And like even in cases where that person wasn't dominant prior and it seemed like they were like, I think I might want, I was like, I kind of felt like you wanted to.

01:06:38:23 - 01:07:14:02

Laura

And then it's really fun to craft the scene that's either like specific to a fantasy of theirs, and they kind of share that. And then like, you leaned into that. But I've literally had situations where like, I've been sort of sube and then switch, like in the scene. And I think in that case it's like it's a very well known partner, like someone you really trust and where like you're hanging out long enough or like close to each other where you can just be like, you can kind of follow an impulse and know that they'll go with it and like that, they'll trust it and that you can be like, okay, I'm in charge now.

01:07:14:02 - 01:07:33:01

Laura

I like that can be really fun, because you've already established the vocabulary and the safety and the like. I know that they're not going to like this, but they're going to like this and like to me, other people's pleasure is so hot. So like, my dominance comes out when I'm like, oh, you fucking want to be dominated. So that, like, I can see that you're subbing for me.

01:07:33:01 - 01:07:38:03

Laura

Like, you just fucking want it so bad. I'm like, I just really want to give it to you. And like, that's what, like, that's.

01:07:38:03 - 01:07:38:16

Luna

So.

01:07:38:16 - 01:07:54:15

Laura

Hot. So like, that's where it does. I mean, going back to the writing thing, it's kind of it's an imagination collaboration workshop, right? Like I like writing in rooms. I like writing with writing partners because I like to bounce those ideas around. So it's really fun when people are like, I'm kind of into this and you're like, oh, what would that look like?

01:07:54:15 - 01:08:07:10

Laura

And then you're like, here's an idea. And they're like, yes! And you're like this, like, maybe not. And you're like, oh, what about this? And you can like, build it. Like, that's actually what turns me on more than anything is like building that energy with people, essentially. Totally. Yeah.

01:08:07:11 - 01:08:25:16

Luna

That's what I love about I just got on Sex Panther. And so you know you can go and like sex people in Texas and I love it because more so than my experience on OnlyFans, there isn't a clear frame in my opinion or like in my I don't know this platform in my experience so far. So it's have you heard of Night Flirt?

01:08:25:18 - 01:08:31:00

Luna

It's like night flirt but newer. So sex. It's just where anyone can.

01:08:31:01 - 01:08:33:09

Laura

Hop on and perform. Anyone. Well, performer. No.

01:08:33:10 - 01:08:51:10

Luna

So you have to apply to be like one of the people on it. Okay. Then anyone else can go be on it, right? So like while has enough Sex Stories listeners that they're like, yeah, you're you can be on our platform. Yeah. And so I've only done like a handful of them, but I love the, you know, like the person who is like, do you enjoy trampling weak men?

01:08:51:10 - 01:09:08:05

Luna

And I was like, oh yes. You know, like there's an invitation I can respond to, or the one where we were like, you know, going through the roleplay of like getting ready to go to a date at a bar because my husband, oh, his family could never know that we were going to go out and, like, find someone to fuck me in this family.

01:09:08:10 - 01:09:10:17

Luna

His conservative family could never know how slutty you know.

01:09:10:17 - 01:09:18:18

Laura

So it's like you're doing this because of yourself, essentially, as opposed to, like, using a. We've got a great question.

01:09:18:20 - 01:09:42:12

Luna

While I stumbled into everything, Wyatt is a made up name, but it is my regular artist name. Yeah. And so far as whatever that means. But I started using it for all of the online sex work that I do, but it's like it just didn't really occur to me. So this is where in the past two years, I'm like a little bit dumb feeling because I'm like, oh, there's persona performance available here.

01:09:42:12 - 01:10:02:05

Luna

Like, can I do performance art? Like, I have 25 clone characters who, if we get into the backstory, like, are on a mission to make the world a sexier, more loving place. There's a captain, there's hierarchy. They all have their specific sex works. But yeah, but in terms of like actually doing all this stuff, I'm just doing it as me because I'm like, well, I'm not going to start 25 unique brands online that that are wearing wigs.

01:10:02:08 - 01:10:20:13

Luna

Yeah. Like that, you know. So yes, it's me as Wyatt. And that has been interesting because again, a lot of the people I'm talking to, if they want to play the actual fantasy game, it's really good. And they have the invitation. If it's complete strangers who, like, maybe don't know me from the podcast at all, or who are just sort of like coming out of nowhere, I do get confused.

01:10:20:13 - 01:10:37:04

Luna

And that's when I started to realize that I don't understand sex and commerce for the last two, you know? So I went down the rabbit hole of like, understanding sex work. But yes, to answer that part of your question, yeah, I'm just doing it as well. But but I love Sex Panther because I feel like people are coming very clearly with their like, what they want to what they want to fantasize about.

01:10:37:04 - 01:10:40:02

Luna

Yeah. And I'm like, oh, that's homeless that I love that.

01:10:40:02 - 01:10:40:13

Laura

Yeah.

01:10:40:18 - 01:10:45:23

Luna

Are you more of like the initiator with ideas or do you just like bounce energy back and forth? I guess if you have experience.

01:10:45:23 - 01:11:07:11

Laura

Writing and I'm a big initiator. Yeah for sure. Like I think people or at least the feedback I've gotten is that I'm often like, it's like, oh wow. Like you owe that. You know, like it's a lot about like reading someone's like energy or impulse. I mean, like, what about that? And like, I kind of can't help but, you know, like, feed ideas if I'm, like, into something, a lot of times it's shared, you know, it's like, I have an idea, you have an idea kind of thing.

01:11:07:11 - 01:11:08:18

Laura

But I am kind of idea, man.

01:11:08:21 - 01:11:14:06

Luna

I know, especially because I feel like especially if it's a lover, I'm like, oh, my muse. And this is what the hot things are.

01:11:14:08 - 01:11:15:19

Laura

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

01:11:15:21 - 01:11:21:14

Luna

I do want to hear it. Well, I want to hear about Hitachi sharing.

01:11:21:16 - 01:11:36:12

Laura

That was just something I discovered at a party recently where, like, a girl was going around with a vibe and it was like six of us on a bed. And, like, she and I kind of started to play. And it was actually her idea to be like, why don't we just put this here? And I was like, oh my God.

01:11:36:12 - 01:11:55:04

Laura

Like, why don't we just do this all the time? Because like, scissoring is that. Yeah, legendary thing that like a lot of people do but is like overhyped and over depicted especially in porn of like this is what like lesbian sex looks like. But I was like, how come every porn doesn't just have a Hitachi between the performers?

01:11:55:04 - 01:12:15:08

Laura

Like, why are we spending five minutes, like jamming into each other? Like, I know that like trimming is a turn on, but, like, very hard for me to, like, get off on exclusively. But when we turn, like, lesbian sex into, like, let's make it look as much like heterosexual as possible. It's like a bummer. Yeah. So I was like, oh, there's such an obvious thing here.

01:12:15:08 - 01:12:33:20

Laura

And like, because and I think it's personally that, like, I consume a lot of porn. And in porn you want like the shot of the pleasure. So like putting a torch between two women doesn't necessarily appeal because they want to see the pussy as much as they can when they're not eating. Yeah. Like, can you angle here and can you put your mouth here so we can still eat the pussy while you're eating it.

01:12:33:23 - 01:12:52:10

Laura

Yeah, yeah. Whereas I'm like, okay. So that essentially hides everything that's happening. But like both people get off and it's incredibly hot. So is this like great hot formative moment just at a party with like six people and like kind of becoming the center of attention because we were doing that and people were like, oh fuck, you know.

01:12:52:12 - 01:13:00:22

Laura

So that is now I'm like, hey, should we do like it's now like a party trick almost. Or like just something I'll whip out that like it's it's always fun to like add something to your vocabulary.

01:13:00:22 - 01:13:12:04

Luna

That sounds super fun. I know I have to put it on my ever increasing bucket list. What about navigating girl girl girl stuff like, tell me about that. You wrote you wrote me a little bit about that.

01:13:12:06 - 01:13:13:03

Laura

What did I say? What you.

01:13:13:04 - 01:13:16:02

Luna

Wrote. Navigating being Gigi versus being protective of your own.

01:13:16:05 - 01:13:20:19

Laura

Oh, do you want to some good giving in game or. Yeah. Good getting.

01:13:20:19 - 01:13:22:07

Luna

And I thought it meant girl, girl girl.

01:13:22:07 - 01:13:45:02

Laura

Like, she's like, totally understandable. Totally understandable. No. In the Dan Savage definition of Gigi, it's like in sex, you want to be good giving in game. So I was thinking about it specifically in the context of like, non-monogamy and like going to parties and not wanting to indulge something that your partner wants. Sometimes that can get complicated, right?

01:13:45:02 - 01:14:13:12

Laura

Because if your partner's impulse is different than yours, you're navigating, you're then navigating your consent versus wanting to be generous in honor of like, what they want, right? Or like someone wants to play with your partner and maybe you're not into that person, but maybe your partner is. And so there's like this little concession that might not be like eroding your consent, but you're like, would I be fucking this person if my partner didn't want to fuck this person?

01:14:13:12 - 01:14:31:15

Laura

Right? And that is like a really fascinating thing to navigate that I didn't think about before, like going to parties with a partner and being like, oh shit, because I was used to being a unicorn. I was like, I don't want a situation. I just walk away from it as opposed to being like, oh, what? I want them to have fun with this person, and I want to be generous and game and giving to them.

01:14:31:17 - 01:14:47:16

Laura

But like, there's going to be situations where I'm not going to want that. So where does that Gigi line and and my consent began and like navigating that can be really complicated. That's been like a recent thing that I'm like, oh, I've never dealt with this before.

01:14:47:18 - 01:14:52:10

Luna

Do you have any suggestions for people going to sex parties with partners? Because I did.

01:14:52:12 - 01:15:25:18

Laura

Once. Yeah. And then we broke up. Oh, shit. Boy. Yeah. It's like more complicated than you'd think. So we have a lot of, like, I've learned, like, check ins are really great. Like, a lot of eye contact, like, especially as things are happening, like, things can be really fluid. And you want to be like, hey, is it cool if I can I but like, there's only so much you can do of that before it starts to feel clunky or also, and this is another thing like you can feel in the position of gatekeeping what your partner is doing, where like someone wants to play with them and they're like, is that okay?

01:15:25:19 - 01:15:48:02

Laura

Yeah. Oh, you don't want to in front of that person be like, yeah, no, not her. She's okay. Like, you don't want to feel like you're creating a barrier around someone who has their own autonomy. So things that have been helpful is like definitely talking through expectations beforehand, you know, like as specific as you can get, knowing that you're not going to make promises to each other necessarily about exactly how it's going to go.

01:15:48:02 - 01:16:10:03

Laura

But like, I'd like to go a few rounds. It's great to like, have plans of like, these are people we want to play with because we have some trust established with them. But then you get to the party and it's a lot of like, who are you seeing? Like who might you be into? And then sometimes it's like finding someone going and playing, and then things just unfold and someone's maybe like coming in on a situation.

01:16:10:03 - 01:16:30:22

Laura

But it's then just like making eye contact with your partner and being like, you, okay, are you okay? I think it's really wise to build in also, just like aftercare with your partner you went with between events like I learned that from going to a first party with a partner where like we had a great time, but then it felt like the person we were playing with kind of attached to me.

01:16:30:22 - 01:16:52:20

Laura

And then he was off with like other people, and I was like, oh, I'm realizing that, like, I really crave a moment of finding you and saying, how was everything? Are you okay? Am I okay? And going through things? Because even in the moment you can say, it was kind of uncomfortable this half, like you can kind of briefly and like, I think you want to save a lot of that for after the party.

01:16:52:22 - 01:17:09:09

Laura

But if something happened, you want the opportunity to say, like, I need to take a break because I got overwhelmed there, or like, I wasn't comfortable with that thing that happened. And then that person can kind of care for that event and just be like, oh, that sucks. Like, let's just take a breather on the couch and like, sit and like, reconnect with each other, that kind of thing.

01:17:09:11 - 01:17:25:12

Laura

I also think it can be helpful to almost have like a red light, green light, yellow light situation like this is something I recently established with a partner around other people at the party where like when you're mingling with your partner, you can say, like, we kind of did a like, hey, who would you be into kind of thing?

01:17:25:14 - 01:17:41:19

Laura

Or like who you're excited about? But we're like, oh, let's take this further and say, like, I would be up for fucking that person. I definitely want to fuck that person. I have some reservations about that person because I know this about them, or I'm not really vibing with them. You know that you can kind of identify that beforehand.

01:17:41:21 - 01:18:01:20

Laura

So if you see those people again, when you're in the very fluid, chaotic moments of play, they know ahead of time, like, oh, Laura doesn't really want to play with that person, so I'm not going to initiate. And if that person comes towards me, I'm already equipped with it. Like, no thanks, not right now. As opposed to having to turn to Laura and me being like, it's a no, you, you know, like she said, no.

01:18:01:21 - 01:18:20:16

Laura

Yeah. I just like she didn't know this. Mom said no. So like, and you can never really do that perfectly, but that's huge. And then every time you go to a party with a partner, like thoroughly debriefing like the communication can be pretty exhaustive, but like going through things that came up and then articulating to someone like, this was kind of weird for me.

01:18:20:16 - 01:18:34:03

Laura

And here's why. Or like, I appreciated that you did this because that like, builds learning and builds understanding where like, okay, here's how we go to the party next time and do even better kind of thing. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Okay.

01:18:34:09 - 01:18:37:00

Luna

I've been dying to know. What do you love about pegging?

01:18:37:02 - 01:18:58:02

Laura

I love about pegging. I just love the incredibly like, taboo pleasure of it. Like, I like I said, I really love providing pleasure, but it's also just this incredibly subverted dynamic where, like, a guy is giving me his asshole and it's really hot to be like, I get to be in this position, I get to fuck you and like, make you come.

01:18:58:02 - 01:19:18:02

Laura

And like with pegging, it can be quite intense. You know, like literally the physical act of it is like an incredibly intense sensation for that person and like, very pleasurable. So it's like really great to just be like, I'm going to send you there and back, you know, like I'm just going to fucking use your asshole. And you were like, your mind is going to be blown.

01:19:18:02 - 01:19:20:09

Laura

Like, that's a really incredible feeling.

01:19:20:11 - 01:19:37:07

Luna

I am definitely going to let you know once I've tamed someone like, like, properly, you know, and and again, I have this huge long bucket list where I'm like, I do want invite people in, but I still want to have the overlap in the co-creation. And for me, it's not about like crossing stuff off now. It's about waiting for the right person in the right timing to do this thing, you know?

01:19:37:07 - 01:19:42:00

Luna

And so it's like, that's why I haven't had my DP yet, because I'm waiting for the best circumstances.

01:19:42:02 - 01:19:42:09

Laura

Yeah.

01:19:42:13 - 01:19:51:23

Luna

What do you feel like you are? Know, there's a sort of inherently bad question, but I'm just curious what are you the best that with air quotes sexually and why?

01:19:52:03 - 01:20:08:12

Laura

Oh what am I the best. I think I'm really good at head. Because I enjoy it. Like I think both times I'm like I really like to just like get really into it. And I think that lets people also give in to it. Like if you're enjoying it, they're like, oh, I can relax into this as opposed to feeling like it's a chore.

01:20:08:13 - 01:20:19:15

Laura

I'm also great at the communication, and I think everybody feels like when everybody feels consenting and comfortable, it just like opens up so much heat because it's like, oh, I can trust the situation. I can have vulnerable. I can be weird, I can be ugly.

01:20:19:17 - 01:20:20:04

Luna

Is.

01:20:20:06 - 01:20:38:20

Laura

Of it is like, oof, which is freeing. And I think that's something I really good at. And like also reading people and like sensing even if someone isn't articulating it like what's hotter for someone versus what they're quietly resisting but don't necessarily want to articulate so that like, I think is a talent to help, just like lean into things.

01:20:38:20 - 01:20:42:07

Luna

Dude, I'm the person. It's like something's happening over there.

01:20:42:12 - 01:20:44:02

Laura

What does it mean? You know.

01:20:44:02 - 01:20:56:03

Luna

And I and I've spent basically my whole adult life trying to workshop my words because sometimes I will over accurately identify a situation, sometimes maybe even before the person understands.

01:20:56:08 - 01:20:58:05

Laura

Me. In a way, the feeling feels harsh, too.

01:20:58:05 - 01:21:13:14

Luna

Abrasive, too clear to to direct. And so that's the skill that I am working to build. And when I bring body contact into it, I am much better. Yeah, but out in the regular world, I'm like, you are uncomfortable ball. I seem to have accidentally triggered your shame again. Oops.

01:21:13:14 - 01:21:23:10

Laura

You know, like that's that's always where is like just being like, hey, you don't okay. Like it seemed like. But they won't, they won't always tell you. Yeah. They won't always. I'm fine. Yeah. They don't suddenly want to burden you with that.

01:21:23:10 - 01:21:25:13

Luna

A regular human lie online.

01:21:25:13 - 01:21:26:19

Laura

Yes. Oh, you're not.

01:21:26:21 - 01:21:27:16

Luna

Sensing that okay.

01:21:27:18 - 01:21:48:01

Laura

Yeah. I think like, the time out and like sussing that out and, like, reading people is a talent I have. That's awesome. And then I think I'm just, like, good in my body. Like, I don't think that you need to dance to, like, fuck. Well, but, like, I'm, I was sort of an athlete growing up. I'm like decent at, like, dancing and moving and just being in touch with and like, grounded in my body.

01:21:48:01 - 01:21:59:02

Laura

And I think that helps, you know, like helps me feel connected, like it helps me feel confident and present is like I feel comfortable in my body. And I think that, like, contributes to good sex. Yeah.

01:21:59:04 - 01:22:09:23

Luna