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30s straight white cis female, she/her pronouns, non-monogamous, partnered, submissive brat, co-host of the Shameless Sex podcast.

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00:00:00:06 - 00:00:22:18

Luna

And our guest today is an original, shame destroying, revolutionary sex and relationship coach, educator, and co-owner of a mother daughter own pleasure boutique. She is a painfully straight, non-monogamous person who is in the sensual dorms, who love pussy worship and has a tried and true method of drive by. Dating has also recently discovered she is a full on brat.

00:00:22:19 - 00:00:34:12

Luna

You may already know her from her incredible podcast Shameless Sex, and she and her co-host April Lampert also recently released a book by the same name. So go check it out. Welcome Amy Baldwin.

00:00:34:14 - 00:00:43:10

Amy

Oh, thank you so much for having me here. And I love that interest of the probably my favorite intro I've ever heard, because Brett's never been in there and I love being a brat, so thank you.

00:00:43:12 - 00:00:48:10

Luna

I love that wait, let's pause there for a minute. So you discovered you were a brat.

00:00:48:12 - 00:01:06:03

Amy

How's the short version? The origin story would be when I was 18 to 22, and I was in a very loving, long term partnership at a young age. I knew I wanted to feel small, and I didn't know how to describe it. I would say to my partner, I want to feel small. Can you make me feel small?

00:01:06:03 - 00:01:29:09

Amy

I'm over five, nine, five, nine and order ish. And he had no idea what to do with it. I didn't really know what to do with it. I don't know what that meant. I just knew that I wanted this compact feeling that I don't feel in everyday life. And I'm also a doer. I'm a very proactive person. And anyways, so as the years went by, I discovered that I am actually a sub.

00:01:29:09 - 00:01:51:17

Amy

I like percentages cause I'm a very heady person. So I go with like I'm 90% sub and 10% I can be swishy, but my top energy is very much. It's a small window. And I didn't realize though that my sub energy could transform. And so now knowing that in the last few years I discovered that it's a brat and it's not always a brat.

00:01:51:17 - 00:02:10:05

Amy

It can be a sensual, loving sub. I can be, you know, worshiping sub. And I can also be the bratty one where everything that you're telling me, I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to do that, but you're probably going to make me do that. But like, it's on my own terms, right? I like to defy because at the end of the day, I always win.

00:02:10:05 - 00:02:29:02

Amy

And that's the story that I have with any lover that I have. My current partner, any future or present lovers is I will always win because I'm a chubby brat and I'm topping from the bottom. Oh, and it's lovely. So when I'm bad, I win. When I'm good, I win, I always win.

00:02:29:04 - 00:02:41:05

Luna

Oh my God. As a genius, can you start off berating yourself on a sexual shame meter? If ten is the most full of shame ever, and one is like, no more shame, where do you fall today?

00:02:41:07 - 00:02:46:07

Amy

Today? Oh wow. Today would be close to zero.

00:02:46:09 - 00:02:46:23

Luna

Fuck yeah.

00:02:46:23 - 00:03:04:06

Amy

But if you asked me five years ago, ten years ago, 20 years ago, it would be a higher number for sure. 20 years ago, you know, teenage me and 20 I'm 38 now would have had a lot more shame around who I am as a sexual being. And as I say that I was raised in Santa Cruz, California.

00:03:04:06 - 00:03:32:03

Amy

So like a little more progressive, but and as I say that as well, it's not like a sunshine and rainbows city. People think like, oh, Santa Cruz, if you've heard of it, you're like, oh, that sounds like it's so progressive. It is in so many ways. And we have comprehensive sex education. I open up a sex shop with my mom in my early 20s, and Santa Cruz is very easy to open a sex shop, too, because there's a lot of city ordinances and also people would be astounded by the fact that I could talk about dildos and, you know, sex next to my mom and a sex shop.

00:03:32:06 - 00:03:52:00

Amy

So I was with the way I was raised was sex is not a bad thing. You're probably going to have sex in your teenage years. It's okay. You can do it in your bedroom, in our house. And I think that was like the first couple steps on not being a super shameful human around sexuality. But I still didn't have a lot of education around pleasure.

00:03:52:00 - 00:04:17:12

Amy

Right? Like, I knew sex wasn't bad. I knew how to protect myself against pregnancy choices, but no one taught me about orgasms, masturbation, a lot of the things that would have been really vital to have really epic sex or not like maybe, but good sex. Pleasurable sex, enjoyable sex, connected sex at a younger age. And it took years, like my mid 20s, to start to go into that place.

00:04:17:13 - 00:04:24:02

Amy

And now at 38, I am my most shameless self. Hence my podcast name Shameless sex.

00:04:24:04 - 00:04:41:13

Luna

Fuck yeah. Does it still ever creep up? Or like what are the areas where shame does kind of cause mine are so funny, right? Like it's not about sex, it's not about talking about sex. But there is like really weird moments where I'm like, oh my God, I'm telling people about my work related to sex or like, you know, in random circumstances.

00:04:41:13 - 00:04:45:10

Luna

So, like, does it ever still attack you? You get shame attacks.

00:04:45:12 - 00:05:02:05

Amy

Yeah. Shame it I like that. It's like panic attacks. So shame attacks. So I personally see the difference between embarrassment and shame. Right. So there's these times I'm talking about certain things where I feel embarrassment. I get all red in the face, I have a weird, awkward smile, I don't even I'm like, oh, let me tell you about like on an airplane.

00:05:02:05 - 00:05:18:07

Amy

And I was like, what do you do for a living? I'm like, oh my God, how long is this flight? Do I really want to tell you I'm a sex educator? Sex and religion. Because all these pieces. I have a podcast. You know, if it's an hour flight. Sure. But if we have four hours next to each other, I'm like, do I really want to tell you about this?

00:05:18:07 - 00:05:33:11

Amy

Because not all people can handle it. Meaning it can be twisted into one. You're a super freak. You're into everything. You're so why let me tell you all the things. I'm a swinger. I've done all the things. What about you? And I don't really want to be a sex therapist on the plane. Do you get that? Do?

00:05:33:13 - 00:05:42:23

Luna

Well, I am the super freak. And I do want to hear those stories on the plane. But I try to be conscious of other people around us and yeah, yeah, I feel that.

00:05:42:23 - 00:06:04:22

Amy

You're closer to April. Who would have been here? She's my co-host of the podcast, and April is the person on the four plus hour flight that loves to talk to her neighbor and I'm a little bit of an introvert, and it's not based on shame. It's more like I just recharge by not connecting with people. So yeah, I don't think shame pops up.

00:06:04:22 - 00:06:24:18

Amy

At least around sex. It will pop around other things in my life. Like one thing that I recently came out about, hence the name Shameless Sex. But it's not just about sex, it's just trying to be as shameless as possible about life. As I came out on our podcast about having an addiction problem for a couple of years with the substance, I'm not going out the substance.

00:06:24:18 - 00:06:41:21

Amy

I don't really feel like it's necessary. So that brings up that like, oh God, is everyone going to hate me? Am I bad, am I wrong, or you're not going to love me? But when it comes to sex, I don't really have that anymore. That's gone into another plane and hopefully it never comes back.

00:06:42:02 - 00:07:02:19

Luna

Fuck yeah. That's beautiful. I still get like, shame me around. Like, oh no, I like it too much. I'm so crazy, you know, like and then like the connection problems that ensue from that or the ones that I'm saying are problems. Tell us what is sex to you? You've been bathing in it for years. Like, what is it, 2nd April.

00:07:02:21 - 00:07:22:10

Amy

So sex is at least now for me. And I'd say for the last ten years I personally define and I think it's important for everyone to define what sex is for them. And I'm sure you would agree, sex to me is anything and everything that anyone thinks is sex. If that's what you think is sex, because it's your own definition.

00:07:22:10 - 00:07:38:16

Amy

So to me, when I am having sex, it could be I'm naked with my partner and we're just making out and there's no genital attached with fingers or mouths. And to me, that can still be a part of sex. As a nominal person. I've had, you know, encounters with people where I go on a date and we just make out.

00:07:38:21 - 00:08:05:16

Amy

I wouldn't say it was sex in that case, maybe nakedness has something to do with it, but it's just always evolving. There's not any set definition. And when I say that it's my definition, I don't think anyone should define sex as, you know, my way or anyone else's ways, whatever you think that is, and I will push for people to redefine sex to be beyond penetration.

00:08:05:16 - 00:08:29:09

Amy

You know, something going into an orifice or the traditional version is a penis goes into a vagina. I work with couples. I have since 2016, and one of the big problems, there's a lot of them, but with the biggest problems that people are seeing in their relationships is that it's so limited, right? Sex is you put your cock inside of me or there's something inside of me, or orgasms has to have an orgasm.

00:08:29:09 - 00:08:58:04

Amy

And I think when we move away from that and we define sex as something broader, there's so many more opportunities for us to have sex with our partners, especially in long term relationships, when, like, sex can be challenging, especially as kids. You're married, you're busy. I mean, your in-laws live in the house. I don't know what your life is like, but if it is just this one narrow way of being sexual, that can be really challenging because I personally have many times in my life where I want to be sexual, but I don't want something inside of me.

00:08:58:04 - 00:09:13:05

Amy

I also am time. My body takes a long time to warm up, so it's not even on the menu, but I can still have sex. I'm doing air quotes without it having to really be this huge event. Like I can have sex in five minutes if I want to, and nothing's inside of me and that's my definition.

00:09:13:06 - 00:09:17:16

Luna

Oh, I love that. I love it personally. What is sexy to you?

00:09:17:18 - 00:09:39:05

Amy

Sexy? Well, my personal sexy. So I'll talk about sexy in a partner and sexy in myself. I could even talk about sexy outside of myself, but for me, I learned how to tap into my ultimate sexy. I thought I knew what it was, and then I did a sex and relationship coaching training through somatic and Emily Morris doctor Emily Masters from Sex with Emily.

00:09:39:05 - 00:09:56:19

Amy

The podcast was in the training and that's when we became really good friends. That's how my podcast with April started and getting to know her and guessing her show. But one of the exercises was to and I had been a meditator for years, so I knew like eroticism and I knew how to be present with touch. And I knew they both added up to some really good stuff.

00:09:56:21 - 00:10:20:07

Amy

And so one of the exercises was for me to touch Emily with, like, full clothes on, because that's the somatic, a way you never take clothes off for the practices and touch her in a way where I am putting my, like, sending out my eroticism with presence. And I was touching her body over her clothes and the main instructor was two of them.

00:10:20:07 - 00:10:40:21

Amy

But one of the instructors, Celeste, came up and I was like, oh fuck the instructors here. Oh my God, my God. And she's like, how is that for you, Emily? And Emily was like, yeah, I'm not that erotic. And I was like, fuck, I'm doing her because I was just doing this, like, you know, meditator like presence, presence, presence.

00:10:41:00 - 00:11:04:01

Amy

And I was like tapping into. And when I think of tapping into, I think of, like sending my energy downward into my pussy and then sending outward to the person that I'm consensually touching through where, however, I'm touching them. So this would be through my hands. I didn't know how to do that at that point. So then they pulled me aside and taught me a couple things, and all of a sudden I discovered this super power all within.

00:11:04:01 - 00:11:22:15

Amy

And one day of how to, like I would say, breathe myself into it is beyond breath is there's imagination. It's like taking time for myself, closing my eyes, honing in on like, Amy's sexy and Amy's sex is primal. She's like a little bit of a knot, a little bit, a lot of bit of an animal. She's cat like.

00:11:22:17 - 00:11:46:05

Amy

She wants to grab and claw and pet herself and others and be pat and clawed and all the things. And sometimes she's sultry and she says things and sultry where it's sometimes she's playful and it's almost like she's like ten year old and there's all these different sides to her. So that's my sexy. When I see a lover being sexy because I'm a stabby person, they're generally like they're strong, masculine of some sort.

00:11:46:05 - 00:12:05:06

Amy

This is why I'm painfully straight, although I know that vulva owning folks can tap into the strong masculine, and I have been intimate with a number of wonderful, dominant, vulva owning folks. But I'm five, nine and a quarter, okay, so they have to be taller than me. There's something about body size for me that is really important, okay?

00:12:05:10 - 00:12:30:06

Amy

And I can't get beyond that. And so that sexy is I feel taking care of like I can release all of my Wild Amy ness, including crying, screaming, laughing, anger, all the things. And I'm not directing them like, fuck you, motherfucker! But more like I'm feeling a lot and they can hold that. And that is so sexy. They're like, oh yeah, baby, let it out.

00:12:30:07 - 00:12:37:12

Amy

Like, my little girl is doing such a good job. And I'm like, oh, it's like that awesome dude.

00:12:37:12 - 00:12:45:16

Luna

I feel that so hard. On this note of being painfully straight. So there's a size thing, but like, when did you know you were straight?

00:12:45:18 - 00:13:04:18

Amy

Since I was like two and went to my mom. Mom, can I have a boyfriend? I flirted with I didn't say flirted, not flirted. Was it too? But my mom has said, and I remember this being in preschool and me coming home and saying, this guy is my boyfriend. She's like, you're like four. You don't hear mean. And, you know, it was just like.

00:13:04:22 - 00:13:23:01

Amy

Like I had a crush and I have had crushes on boys. Some of my first best friends were boys. I'm an only child who was not surrounded by sisters, but I was that girl that played with Barbies and wanted to chase snakes. When I say snakes, actual snakes, right? Like I wanted to race and play with the boys and play tag and get dirty.

00:13:23:01 - 00:13:43:05

Amy

But I also want to play with Barbies and My Little Ponies. And so that was like this interesting thing, like Amy's more so like gender spectrum. And as someone that's over five, nine and maybe other people who are taller don't resonate with this, I'm not saying that just because people are tall, they're painfully straight. This is just my thing with my body and I have daddy issues.

00:13:43:05 - 00:14:06:23

Amy

Everyone I have like major daddy issues. I know that that's where this originates from. Like my desire to have men show up in a strong, loving, dominant, masculine role is because my dad didn't do that. And so the straightness part is not really related to genitals. Although I've never gone down in a pussy and I don't really desire to, and I don't really want a boner touch my pussy, okay?

00:14:07:03 - 00:14:28:14

Amy

And that to me sometimes is silly because I'm like, it's fingers and mouths and like, why does it matter? But I am an energetic person, so the energy matters to me. And the connection piece. And like all the pieces, I'm not just the sexual person I remember taking and of, you know, of Jaya Jaya, her erotic blueprints. I took her quiz.

00:14:28:14 - 00:14:50:07

Amy

I scored zero as a sexual and I'm like, I'm a sexual person, but really? Yeah, but it's because. So for me, when I see a hot, naked body of all genders, it doesn't do shit for me. It could even be like the hottest muscular, penis owning man. And it doesn't do anything for me. It's the energy that they bring in my direction.

00:14:50:09 - 00:15:14:01

Amy

And so I think that that plays into my extreme straightness, where I'm like so into cock energy, but not cock cock energy into, you know, lovingly humble, confident cock energy is so hot. And the painful part is my mom's bisexual and that's not what makes it painful. I just see her in her life and I'm like, damn it, that looks awesome, right?

00:15:14:01 - 00:15:30:03

Amy

Like she's like, I have a girlfriend right now. I have a boyfriend. I don't know what's next month. And you have a lot of queer friends and I think women are beautiful. Yeah, I think they're gorgeous. I just don't feel the sexual attraction. I feel attraction is not sexual.

00:15:30:05 - 00:15:48:05

Luna

Wow. Okay. I'm a person who feels sexual attraction. Like I'm one of the highest desire people I've ever encountered. And most of my life, I just have to be like of of of of of, you know, so like when I see a beautiful naked body, I'm not attracted to it because I don't know I have permission yet, you know.

00:15:48:05 - 00:15:54:06

Luna

So for me, it's all about kind of like finding that little piece. That's so interesting. Cool. Thank you for sharing all those details.

00:15:54:11 - 00:15:56:09

Amy

You're like, straight people do exist.

00:15:56:11 - 00:16:17:01

Luna

That is that is what I said before we started recording. Cool. So so lately I've been kind of noodling on, like, is straightness not to dismiss anyone's experience ever, but I started to get really, really curious about straightness in terms of like, is it just the culture? How could we not? But that's just because my brain is so extreme of like, yes.

00:16:17:01 - 00:16:25:00

Luna

And I realized that, like, I have higher curiosity, I have higher like I'm like into everything. And you know, which is terrible because you need to filter at some point.

00:16:25:00 - 00:16:43:04

Amy

And the thing that I'll add to that is that what I've learned through my own sexual experience is that it's always evolving and changing. So today I might be like, I'm painfully straight. And, you know, in a year, five years, ten years, that could completely change, right? So like, this is Amy today and this has been Amy for ever.

00:16:43:06 - 00:16:59:03

Amy

And I have, you know, tested it many times if you ask me. Really like how do you identify, I would say the painfully straight or hetero flexible meaning like I am open to the shift in my body and being. So I know that it's possible, but I'm not going to like, try to push it to be possible.

00:16:59:05 - 00:17:19:20

Luna

I love that. Okay, so a lot of your origin story is in your book, which I encourage people to go read and your own work, but I would love to hear, as a person who has been teaching and learning from other experts for so many years, so many different modalities, what do you wish modern sex ed was like?

00:17:20:23 - 00:17:45:00

Amy

Oh my goodness. Okay, well let's start with like what we already have in comprehensive sex education that is happening in certain areas. Not all of them. Yeah. In fact, certainly not enough would be what that already is. Right. Like how to protect yourself, how to tend to your body in a safe way, especially when it comes to consent, but also STIs, pregnancy, all those pieces that I received in comprehensive sex education I would love for young people.

00:17:45:00 - 00:18:03:22

Amy

I can't say that because everyone's really different when they start to be sexual. I remember being a teenager or like a young teen, right, like 13, and hearing about some girls who are like giving blowjobs, like, whoa, that's crazy. I haven't even made out with someone. So in these in California, Santa Cruz, I received comprehensive sex education, different variations in fifth, seventh, ninth grade.

00:18:04:00 - 00:18:32:17

Amy

And so I think in fifth grade, because this is like way before most young people are generally consensually having sexual experiences that are deemed as sex. Right? They matter like spin the bottle and stuff and all those things. And I'm not speaking to like non-consensual sex or trauma because that can happen at any age. So to had little bits about pleasure there even like and it could be as simple as anyone that you're engaging with sexually.

00:18:32:19 - 00:18:52:16

Amy

Your pleasure is just as valid. If not, you know, sometimes more important based on like what? You can't say there's a fifth grader, but like your pleasure is just as valid and pleasure is important and healthy and masturbation is important. Healthy, in fact, go and masturbate, discover your body. And you know, we as parents or the school system or as friends, we accept that and respect that.

00:18:52:16 - 00:19:16:21

Amy

And we're due to do so fifth grade, seventh grade. You're starting to hear stories like so-and-so gave a blowjob or handjob, so you're a little more immersed in sex actually happening then I think we can even go be a little more descriptive in our graphic about pleasure and masturbation and actual sex. Like what it might look like to have sex with someone else, to be touched by someone else on your genitals, touching someone on their genitals.

00:19:16:23 - 00:19:36:20

Amy

So I would really like to see these conversations happening before people actually get into the mix of being sexual in a consensual way, because then they would have less trial and error and less of this experience of like, I don't know if I liked it or didn't feel very good or, you know, instead there could be so many more experiences like, that was amazing.

00:19:36:20 - 00:19:49:08

Amy

I only have one friend and I don't need. I think she's anomaly, who had her first sexual experience. Like essentially. Oh, so have you heard the new term for losing your virginity, by the way? I just learned the other day what is it called sexual debut?

00:19:49:10 - 00:19:51:11

Luna

Yes, yes, I say, yeah.

00:19:51:12 - 00:20:10:05

Amy

I had never heard that. And some people don't like it. So like it was not my debut is lame. But what if your first sexual experience are like it? Actually, whatever your definition of sex was. Yeah. Was actually somewhat pleasurable or super pleasurable, and it really was a sexual debut into the world where you're, like, stoked on it in some way.

00:20:10:05 - 00:20:22:15

Amy

You it might not be perfect, but I think that the lack of information is the reason why that's not happening for most people, especially, and primarily vulva owning folks.

00:20:22:17 - 00:20:39:02

Luna

Yeah, I always think about how in high school, you know, there would be those groups that would go out and pass out condoms, you know, free condoms. And I'm like, where was the lube? If someone had told me what lube was like early on, my first couple of sexual experiences would have been so different, especially my second time having sex.

00:20:39:08 - 00:20:53:14

Luna

I remember just being like, something doesn't seem right, but I have no idea. And then when I learned what lube was and learned about wetness, I was like, oh, that what? That was the problem. So I really feel all that. How important would you say sex is in your life?

00:20:53:16 - 00:21:17:09

Amy

It is really, really important. And I already said this before, so everyone who's listening already heard my definition of sex. So it's not, you know, cock inside of me. I mean, that's somewhat important, but it really as a non-monogamous person to, you know, dating other people, that's like the least important thing to me. It's more I'm into like feeling desired and desiring and feeling the attraction, the excitement, the newness.

00:21:17:09 - 00:21:40:05

Amy

But it also just have to be new. But there's an aliveness there. And I think sexuality really holds that for me in being really alive and it's a creative space because it's constantly changing and evolving, at least for me. Not all people are having creative sex. For me, it's vital. It's my life force energy, and I imagine that a lot of folks who would identify as non-monogamous and I'm and anyone listening, my non-monogamy journey.

00:21:40:05 - 00:22:03:09

Amy

I've been monogamous pretty much most of my life. I'm in a four plus year relationship. We were monogamous for the first two years, monogamous for a year, monogamous. Dan Savage me, that term coined it came out a term for the gay community is shared experiences. That's how we define it in my world with my partner. And then we're now in the non monogamous phase, meaning we're having solo experiences.

00:22:03:09 - 00:22:22:22

Amy

And part of that is because sexuality is so important and the creativity and the aliveness that we feel from it is part of our lifeforce energy. So it's a key player, you know, I wouldn't be able to be in a relationship that didn't have sexuality as a key component. You know, I can be 80 and not have a cock inside of me.

00:22:22:22 - 00:22:35:19

Amy

That's fine, because I know how to play with so many other things. We've got fingers, we have mouths. I can have sex without even, like having an orgasm or something, even touching my genitals. And that will always be a part of my life.

00:22:35:21 - 00:22:52:12

Luna

Yeah. Fuck yeah. Well, you give us a little just like overview of the landscape of your non-monogamous sex life. Like, how do you enjoy meeting other people? How do you like to play with people that are it sounds like you've a primary partner. So how do you like to kind of like engage there? And what are your criteria?

00:22:52:14 - 00:22:58:08

Luna

Because like you're pretty much a sex worker. So like is it hard to meet people? What do you do.

00:22:58:10 - 00:23:16:08

Amy

So yeah, some people are like, oh God, Amy Baldwin, she had a sex. She either knows or is into everything or like, oh, that's really exciting. So it can be really intimidating. I actually, I love dating apps. I'm a huge fan of dating apps. I know some people don't like them. They feel like it's not real or it's exhausting.

00:23:16:10 - 00:23:43:23

Amy

And I also have felt that many times dating apps. I'm really honest on the dating apps. I say that I'm in a relationship. I'm in a loving partnership. I've been monogamous, monogamous, and now we're x, y and I'm so I like that aspect of screening. Right? Like on the apps where it's a swiping culture based on photos and the couple things that you say, if you read that and you're like, oh no, I'm not into ENM, then you're not my person to engage with right now.

00:23:44:00 - 00:24:05:08

Amy

That's totally cool. Yeah, I almost prefer that screening process over the in-person world. I do like the in-person world. It's a deeper conversation to have with people, to describe to them, you know who I am and what I'm exploring, and I'm open to doing that. So I've had a lot of success with dating apps. I use Field and Hinge.

00:24:05:08 - 00:24:24:03

Amy

I've had a lot of success on field in terms of finding people that are more like my sensual Doms because, you know, I like the central Dom thing. And then on hinge, I don't put I'm into central Dom's in there because it's hinge. It's a little more like mainstream, but I do say ENM. I've just magically found humans there that were really great, but I've also had some misses and that's just part dating.

00:24:24:03 - 00:24:36:02

Amy

And that's okay. I'd have misses if it was in person. I met you, you know, at the yoga studio, at a bar, at home, and it's a mess. So yeah, I really like the screening process that it offers. It just works for my heady brain. And it's not for everyone.

00:24:36:07 - 00:24:51:16

Luna

Yeah, yeah. And do you like to play with people right away? Like are you like okay sensual dom chat chat chat go play play session or like what do you kind of feel into because you are such an energetic human and can you feel that energy across the ether or like how does that work for you?

00:24:51:18 - 00:24:53:22

Amy

It's hard to feel it in the ethers.

00:24:54:01 - 00:24:55:19

Luna

Because you saying, I'm like, I.

00:24:55:19 - 00:25:14:20

Amy

Feel like, where are you? Can I poke you? And that I can sense some of the ways that if I say something somewhat provocative or speaking to who I am as a sexual being, their response, even if it's just a text message, can tell me or inform me how they handle that or you know where they're at with it.

00:25:14:22 - 00:25:29:14

Amy

And so I can get like some like, you know, low scale information. So I still go slow with that. But I'm not like, let's text for five weeks, you know, like I've gone to, like on trips to Europe. And I'm like, I have one day when I'm there, like, wait, let's meet up soon. You know, like, yeah, we got to figure this out real quick.

00:25:29:16 - 00:25:51:02

Amy

So yeah, yeah, I have limited time. And when it comes to actually meeting. So I would like to meet people in person if I have time. Like it's not like I have one night in Portugal or one night in Germany or one night wherever I am. So I travel a lot if I have time, like someone's in Santa Cruz where I live, or I'm somewhere for, you know, a week or somewhere where I go often I would actually prefer to meet with someone.

00:25:51:02 - 00:26:05:01

Amy

Let's see Santa Cruz, where I can meet with you for like, coffee or something. Just look at the energy to see, like, do we even like talking to each other? Because if we don't like talking to each other, I don't want to have air quotes again. Sex, like even making out with you. Because I want to see that's important to me.

00:26:05:01 - 00:26:25:06

Amy

You're not just a body. To me, you're a person. And that's vital. Yeah, you're an energetic as well. And then if we start to engage sexually, I would prefer to layer it with experience by experience, day by day, not back to back days. But like the first day. Let's just make out and see how that feels. And if that feels good the next time, let's make out with our clothes off.

00:26:25:06 - 00:26:44:12

Amy

Ooh, but not touch genitals. Maybe my panties are going to stay because that is safer. And then the next time it's not. Last one felt good. Then let's take the panties off and, like, start. It's boring genitals. But without putting things inside of orifices, I indulge and love the experiences that you can have. I'll say slowness, but I might say slowness.

00:26:44:12 - 00:27:04:22

Amy

It doesn't mean that I'm always moving slow. It's just by not moving to like the final destination, right? And I'm not doing that. So the final destination so amazing is to make sure that you didn't want to go to the final destination. And when I say final, also, I'm like, I know that penetrative sex isn't the final destination, but for me, it's a really invasive experience and that can be really amazing and mind blowing.

00:27:04:22 - 00:27:15:01

Amy

But if I don't trust you and feel connected to you and like our bodies work really well together, it's not going to be good for me. And so I don't want to do that, okay?

00:27:15:03 - 00:27:29:16

Luna

Damn, I am the opposite. I'm like, is there something to put inside of me right now? Can I have it? Can I, you know, so I really have to work so hard to slow myself down. I'm like, oh, the whole film, you know? And so it's like, I just have to fucking call it. So that's, that's very inspiring.

00:27:29:17 - 00:27:38:00

Luna

The idea of, yeah, that many layers of progressions. What makes bringing a new person into your life gratifying for you?

00:27:38:02 - 00:27:56:12

Amy

Yeah. But you come back to the aliveness and the newness of feeling wanted and desired, but also the newness of getting to know someone in the connection, which is really interesting. So I'm actually pretty introverted person. I describe myself as an introvert with extroverted tendencies. If you met me for like an hour, you probably would not assume that I was an introvert person.

00:27:56:13 - 00:28:13:07

Amy

I like to be out there in the world, and then I when my body hits a point after a couple hours of talking to new people, like people I know really well, I don't get exhausted by that. I'm not like, I need Amy's time all that well now. I'm not my partner. Like my partner is someone that I can spend, you know, 24, seven with.

00:28:13:07 - 00:28:30:08

Amy

And that's fine now. So I can ask for my own time. But so out in the world of needing people, even if I'm really into them, like I could be super into someone and start making out with them. But because it's so new, I'm like excited meets like, okay, but I think I you Amy, time to process. Yeah.

00:28:30:08 - 00:28:46:10

Amy

And it's not because it's heavy. It's just my systems way of taking things in. And I used to battle with I'm like, why? Why is it that I'm into this person? I want to be alone after three hours? Do I not like them? Sometimes I don't like them, sometimes I don't actually really want to hang out with them again or anymore.

00:28:46:12 - 00:29:01:18

Amy

But even when I do, it's just my system saying like, let's take a little moments to go and tend to ourselves, me and my system where we're a unit to see like what we want to happen next. And that can't always happen in union with a new person for me.

00:29:01:19 - 00:29:27:08

Luna

Yeah, I would love to hear specific ways that your like work life has influenced your personal life, which I understand is a huge question. But like, you know, I'm five years in and have had some interesting things loop back on themselves, but I also have been so deeply inspired by so many things. So like, what are some of the like sexiest things maybe in Amy's life that have been a result of the work that you do.

00:29:27:10 - 00:29:53:10

Amy

Group sex, sex parties. And I'm not necessarily talking about orgies, but being in environments for other people are sexual or having sex. And that was something that I've been curious about but never dabbled with until the podcast, at least. And I've been in the human sexuality field since I was 18. So for two decades. Dan okay. And the other one would be, I would say the pussy worshiping would be a big thing that I learned about myself, and that works really well for me.

00:29:53:12 - 00:30:11:02

Amy

So the sex party DL, I am an exhibitionist, but not a I want all the attention and want everyone to stop and stare at me and I think of exhibitionism and I'll think sexuality on a spectrum. Right. So like you for ten is like, I want to be in the middle and have everyone look at me and Jack off to me.

00:30:11:06 - 00:30:27:00

Amy

I'm not that I'm like a five. I'm like, if you're jacking off to me, that's really cool. I'm totally down with you to look. And it also turns me on a little bit, like turns up the heat. It's not like my full kink or my fetish or, you know, however, people identify with exhibitionism, voyeurism. I am a pervert.

00:30:27:00 - 00:30:44:13

Amy

I love hearing people have sex. I actually like hearing people of sex more than viewing. Which is funny because April, who's not here, likes viewing more than hearing. Like if she hears her neighbors on the other side of the hotel room, she's like, not into that. It feels invasive and is not a turn on. But for me, I'm like, ooh, that's so interesting.

00:30:44:13 - 00:30:55:03

Amy

Like, what are you doing? Oh my God. And some would say that's non-consensual, but if you're having sex in the other side of my hotel room wall and I can hear you, I'm pretty sure that you made me consent to me.

00:30:55:03 - 00:30:57:16

Luna

Yeah. So it's a different type of non.

00:30:57:16 - 00:31:19:00

Amy

If I get to that, then that's mine. And you don't have to see that. But anyways, and I really love being around sexual energy and I love the diversity of it. Right. Like I remember my first sex party and like I think it was 20, 16, 17 anyways. And seeing all these different bodies, you know, having sex and places and maybe just threesomes or orgies or two people and sex could be like someone going down, someone someone's just getting spanked.

00:31:19:00 - 00:31:42:06

Amy

That could be sex to me. And I was like, oh my God, everyone's so different. You know, like, if I just watch porn, it seems like there's one way to fuck. Yeah. And I love being in the raw, fresh realness of people being sexual because it gives me permission to be as expressive in a consensual way as I want to be.

00:31:42:07 - 00:32:01:06

Amy

And knowing that there's not one way to be a sexual Amy, I don't give a fuck what my face looks like. I don't really care what my sounds are. I can just do and be me and follow the pleasure thread. And being in those environments has been really helpful. So yeah, sex parties have been something that I don't think without this path I would have maybe I would have discovered it.

00:32:01:06 - 00:32:12:12

Amy

But I know people that listen to shame sex, they're like, you know, they're not in the field, but they're discovering sex parts. So I probably would have, but I got it at a very quick and fast in a lovely way, and I'm really grateful for it.

00:32:12:14 - 00:32:23:12

Luna

When we're talking about the non-monogamy stuff earlier, do you have any sort of like reclamation rituals with your partner? And then I do want to talk about pussy worship. Maybe they intersect. I don't know.

00:32:23:14 - 00:32:29:11

Amy

When you say reclamation rituals. Are you talking about, like, the way that we process or connect around non-monogamy?

00:32:29:13 - 00:32:38:15

Luna

Yeah. Or just like when you come home after being with somebody else. Is it like mine again? Like, do you have any, any of that type of stuff? But yeah, however you do. Oh yeah.

00:32:38:17 - 00:32:55:09

Amy

We totally feed off that. We're like, if we have sex, my partner like, oh, this person is mine. Yeah, she may have been out being all worshiped and pleasured and have orgasm someone else, but like, she's mine and I'm like, oh yeah, she's yours. Or if I'm a bride, I'm like, well, she's yours right now, but tomorrow she might not be.

00:32:55:09 - 00:33:20:09

Amy

So what are you going to do about it? Like, like a good part and then I win. So everyone wins. Yeah. So for us it's still evolving. Originally we were into the full on non-monogamy solo experience space. It was when one or both of us were out of town from our hometown that we both live in, and now we're exploring being in the same town city, and one of us, or both of us can go out and be intimate with someone else.

00:33:20:11 - 00:33:37:11

Amy

And so we talk about it before, but like what's on the table, what's not on the table. And for us, in our non-monogamy space, our relationship is top priority. We're not like relationship anarchy status. You know, one of us is like, I'm really not there right now in the in a place to feel safe or comfortable or relaxed about you going to be an intimate with someone else.

00:33:37:11 - 00:33:55:20

Amy

We're going to hold that as priority. And that's our not monogamy, right? That's not for everyone. If we define that for ourselves. So we have zero set like self the other day or like a week ago, I think I when my second date with someone and I was like, I'd like to make out with them and maybe get down to some undies and, you know, like grind and just like, check it out and see how that feels.

00:33:55:20 - 00:34:13:14

Amy

And my parents like, edgy. Okay, cool. And what time do you think you'll be home? Because. Because we lived together. And I was like, oh, I'm thinking between 8 and 9 p.m. he's like, okay, cool it would be cooler because then I can like, fuck you really hard with more energy after. But nine works too. So then I, you know, I'm going to respect that.

00:34:13:14 - 00:34:29:19

Amy

I'm going to get home by nine for sure. I got home at 855. Okay, I walk in, he is like, tell me how it was. I want to hear all the things. So for us, it's the person that is not having the experience. We can we can ask each other anything and we'll answer anything. It doesn't mean that like I walk into, like, here's all the things.

00:34:29:19 - 00:34:48:11

Amy

It's whatever my partner wants to know or I want to know about our unique experiences. And then we share that and we do like take a breath and we usually find that we're feeling the edginess like, oh God, oh God, my partner was hooking up with someone else. When we take a breath and just feel into it, it chills out a little bit.

00:34:48:12 - 00:35:12:11

Amy

It's like, not that big of a deal because for us, at least we're coming home to each other and we're here choosing this, at least in our arrangement for our mutual aliveness in our relationship, but also our solo aliveness. And the minute it doesn't fulfill those pieces, we are going to reconsider what we're doing. Yeah. So our ritual be more just like a processing piece.

00:35:12:11 - 00:35:30:23

Amy

And then if you call like STI testing ritual. But we're also very careful about when it comes to penetration. I mean, most sex educators I know are like not that careful about oral sex. I know, like the sweatiest and most like profound of sex educators who are like, no, I don't wear condoms for oral sex. So I think in that case, testing is is even more important.

00:35:30:23 - 00:35:37:00

Amy

So we're getting tested every three months, even if we use condoms of people. But, you know, mouths go places and things happen.

00:35:37:06 - 00:35:53:03

Luna

So yes, they do. Yes they do. I have just in case anyone hasn't heard me, I have herpes, both kinds orally, but like HSV two is in my throat because back in those days I didn't use condoms. And I really do like Deep Throat. And so that's how I got there. What are the conversations that you have with partners?

00:35:53:03 - 00:35:56:18

Luna

Do you usually initiate them, or is it like a super turn on? If they do?

00:35:56:20 - 00:36:15:23

Amy

I'm like a submissive brat who is like, I want you to initiate most of the things we're actually having sex, the conversations beforehand. I want to be very mutual, and I'm generally leading it because I'm not hooking up with like, only sex educators like myself. Right. Who are like, are you're I'm very proficient in the conversation. Like, let's have the safer sex elevator speech, not mine.

00:36:15:23 - 00:36:32:19

Amy

That's read me how it goes. But I think it's really valuable. And that also applies though, like let's talk with like the pleasure elevator speech or dance average says like one of the primary things that he sees that is really beneficial in the gay community in terms of like the initial conversations, is just the simple question of what are you into?

00:36:32:20 - 00:36:49:15

Amy

Right? Like straight people aren't really saying that as often as they probably should to just figure out, like at least a couple things that you're into and that you're not into and not everyone knows, like, I don't know, and that's fine. But, you know, especially if you're 30s, 40s and up, you probably know a couple things that you're into and not into.

00:36:49:15 - 00:37:16:05

Amy

So be helpful to share that. As you ask that question, I'm reflecting back like I actually am not asking. And stating those things, but every single person I've been intimate with in the last 4 or 5 years, at some point before were engaging. They know that identify me as a submissive, kinky person who's not submissive in kinky 24 seven, who also likes connected sex, or tantric sex, or just sex, and also sex meaning not penetration.

00:37:16:05 - 00:37:35:22

Amy

And that will come up before I also tell people before we're being sexual, if I already know that, you know, like I keep saying Portugal, but like when I was in Portugal, I had one night to be intimate with someone. So I was like, I'm going to fuck because I didn't say this with that person. But you know, the people that I know, I want to layer it as I was talking about before, I'll tell them beforehand.

00:37:36:02 - 00:37:52:06

Amy

I'm going to keep my pants on. I'm going to keep my underwear on. And if they try to coerce me out of it, they're out. You try once like, oh, come on, take it. Come on. Oh, you're you're done. You're done for me because I don't do I did coercion for so many years. I am so beyond that.

00:37:52:06 - 00:37:53:04

Amy

I'm too good for that.

00:37:53:06 - 00:38:16:11

Luna

Yeah. Boundary pushing is not sexy. It's so sexy and sexy. Yeah. And it's a huge red flag. It's the biggest point is red flag. I'm like, nope, no turning back to work a little bit. Is it even possible to give us like a day in the life week, in the life month, in the life of what you do because you do so many things and so like, how do you balance that stuff?

00:38:16:14 - 00:38:26:16

Luna

Does it ever feel like not very sex like, I love to hear the sexiest parts of your job, least sexy parts of your job. Do you identify as a sex worker? Take you wherever you want to take it.

00:38:26:18 - 00:38:51:07

Amy

So I'll start with the last thing you said. Do I identify as a sex worker? I don't, but if someone were to put me in that category, I would be so honored. Like, yes, but this is not a title that I would take on. When I finish the Somatic Sex and Relationship Coaching training, I identified a little more as a sex worker because I was actually utilizing their hands on touch in sessions, but their boundaries are closed is on.

00:38:51:07 - 00:39:07:20

Amy

You're not touching it to the point of orgasm. No kissing on the lips. It was very tantric though, if you look through the window of the sessions I was having with people, it looked like we were had. It was steamy, but within those boundaries, right? So that to me felt more sex worker ish. And I'm, you know, as I said earlier, a heady person.

00:39:07:20 - 00:39:26:11

Amy

So I'm more voice in terms of the work that I do. I'm much more utilizing my voice to the power of Amy's word. And I am long winded, as you can already tell. And so that to me just feels like not quite sex worker E to me, when I think of sex work, I think of my body being a part of it and not just my mind.

00:39:26:11 - 00:39:40:12

Amy

And so a lot of my work is geared towards my mind being part of it. And I think of also because I wear so many hats in the human sexuality field. So I think of like I have all these little mini hats on, right? I'm like, yeah, five of them ish, maybe 4 or 5. So I have the podcast Amy mini hat, right?

00:39:40:12 - 00:39:59:08

Amy

Like we've been doing shameless sex podcast since 2017 April and I from Same Sex, I also wrote a book. So that's a big so that's really prevalent in our current day and age. Oh, she's got it right now. Read it. Yeah, yeah it's fun. It's our choose your own adventure. But that's trademarked. Let's choose your own pleasure path to figure out who you are as a sexual being.

00:39:59:08 - 00:40:15:07

Amy

It's fun, it's playful, it's insightful, and I think everyone should have it. I would have liked it when I was 18, 28. I'm 38 now. I want it when I'm 60. And then I also have another smaller hat. I used to own a sex shop with my mom in Santa Cruz, California. We opened in 2000. It's called Pure Pleasure.

00:40:15:07 - 00:40:33:17

Amy

We sold it in 2018, right before the pandemic. We sold it to Good Vibrations, which was our inspiration for opening in the first place. So it's perfect full circle, and we sold it before the pandemic. So we would have been struggling as a, you know, mother daughter, independently owned business. So we still have the online store, the Pure Pleasure Shop, Dot com.

00:40:33:17 - 00:40:41:22

Amy

I am the lead educator for my favorite lube brand and ever my favorite before I started working for them, Uber lube, in my opinion, one of the best.

00:40:42:00 - 00:40:43:02

Luna

It's also my favorite.

00:40:43:02 - 00:41:02:00

Amy

Yeah. And then I'm a sex and relationship coach, right. So I work with clients one on one, but I do a lot less of that these days. I'd say. Like my primary facilmente comes from the podcast. So an average day and being Amy, first of all, all my work is remote. Probably yours. Most of yours too, right? So I'm wearing pajama bottoms right now.

00:41:02:00 - 00:41:02:16

Amy

You can't tell.

00:41:02:20 - 00:41:06:03

Luna

Same I have you showered yet?

00:41:06:05 - 00:41:21:07

Amy

She must love it. Oh, yes. I, primarily work from home, and, you know, I get up. My best work hours are in the morning until about noon, and then I work. And then I like to go to, like, a hot yoga class or maybe some Pilates. I don't know, it depends on the day. Go for hike with my little dogs.

00:41:21:07 - 00:41:41:01

Amy

I'm a crazy dog mom, and then I'll work a little more in the afternoon. I honestly think that I work maybe 25 hours a week, but if you talk to me, it sounds like I work a lot more because what I like to do, and I don't know if this is your jam, but I think everyone's different. Like April from the podcast, she wants to work Monday through Friday for 5 to 6 hours a day.

00:41:41:03 - 00:42:04:09

Amy

I would like to work every day of the week for less time, like for 3 to 4 hours a day, 2 to 4 hours. And that's how I am, right? I'm on vacation right now in Oregon. This is my vacation. Yeah, but I'm also like the, you know, that person that feels like purpose in doing. I'm a doer and one of my harder lessons is being, you know, just like, whoa, just detach and be.

00:42:04:09 - 00:42:07:20

Amy

Which I do, but it's like, I'd rather do than BS.

00:42:07:22 - 00:42:19:15

Luna

Yeah, I hit the extremes of those real hard. I'm like, okay, okay, oh, I'll be now. And then I'm like, why would I ever do anything? And then I'm like, okay, now I'm all the doing. So it's like from that, that kind of balance.

00:42:19:17 - 00:42:42:18

Amy

Yeah, I think some people are the extremes and some people are like the in-betweens and some are the struggles, and it's it's okay to be anywhere in there as long as it feels good for you. Then we have our own way of doing or being, and I think is really important value in finding at least moments to being and at least for myself, like if I just do do, do all the time and I'm productive, purposeful, Amy.

00:42:42:23 - 00:42:49:02

Amy

Or then I do that for like a day and then all of a sudden I have to be alone with Amy and I'm like, fuck this shit.

00:42:49:04 - 00:42:50:09

Luna

Here I am.

00:42:50:11 - 00:42:59:02

Amy

What do I do? Oh, wait, it's not about doing shit. How do I be? Yeah, I need to know how to how to be. And that takes practice.

00:42:59:08 - 00:43:22:09

Luna

Totally. I would also love to hear what insights about humanity you have gained through your work, whether it's the relationship between sex and commerce, social norms. We talked about pleasure and shame already, but like, you know, or even if you want to bring in specific toys, tools, kinks, fetishes, like, I feel like you have such a wealth of knowledge, I'd love to hear what comes to top of mind.

00:43:22:11 - 00:43:44:20

Amy

Yeah, I think people are really hungry for more information and more inspiration and more creativity within themselves, in their lives. In the sexual realm field. That doesn't mean you have to go full on like poly, kinky, queer. Whatever you know is is your jam. And even if they're like, no, no, no, that's not normal. I don't like that to me.

00:43:44:20 - 00:44:08:12

Amy

I'm like, oh yeah, I know you kind of want a little more something, but it's like your version of something. And I think that, like, even the people that are really closed off from branching out of what's really comfortable for them at some point are going to crave something really different from that comfort because humans innately, in my opinion, and other people would agree with this, including scientists and researchers.

00:44:08:12 - 00:44:19:06

Amy

And there's studies on this, like some form of newness and like, you know, habituation. Fabulous. We get used to something, we're comfortable, we're safe, and then we kind of get bored.

00:44:19:08 - 00:44:23:00

Luna

That's how our dopamine system works. We need new stuff. Exactly.

00:44:23:00 - 00:44:44:17

Amy

So what I believe and have seen is just that a lot of people think that I'm this way, you know, this is who I am as a sexual being. I like it, I'm good. But then I see these little like inklings to something else. Or leaky energy. Right? They'll like, slip a little a story about something. I was like, that is so not just like what you just said, you know, now you're like, I'm Superman.

00:44:44:19 - 00:45:11:00

Amy

Or, you know, I'm totally happy this way, but. And then you hear some other story and you see them smile or giggle or look more glowing or alive. And I also wonder if people deep down their subconscious knows, right, that like they're desiring more. But it's a really hard thing to say if, you know, if you're in a partnership and your partner might not be down for the mornings if your whole ego or reality world will be shattered, at least you think it will.

00:45:11:00 - 00:45:28:19

Amy

It probably won't. But you think it will. Or if you will, you'll get through it. Change is scary. Change is where a lot of really great things happen. Doesn't mean we have to change drastically every day. But yeah, I think the world just wants more of that, more acceptance in figuring out their own version of that. Hence why we created the book Shame of Sex.

00:45:29:00 - 00:45:45:09

Amy

It's about you figuring out you as a sexual being and what you want, and how to have more connected sex, a live sex, sexy sex, whatever it is. And I think people want more of that, even if they don't think they do. I believe it's in there, in almost everyone. You could be an asexual and asexual people are still sexual people.

00:45:45:11 - 00:46:08:16

Amy

They just don't feel sexual attraction. And I'm not even talking about demi sexual, all these other aspects of asexuality. But I think sexuality runs at the core of everyone. It's the easiest thing to bruise and harm in someone and to change them in a non-consensual way. And it's also a really easy or maybe easy not the word, but powerful path to to create your own change in a really powerful, beautiful way.

00:46:08:18 - 00:46:30:22

Luna

I totally agree, I really feel like it is the spark of our creativity. I started calling sex original creativity because I feel like, at least in myself, when my sexual needs are met, I am so able to be a productive, creative member of society and all those other ways. On the note of the book, what was the process for writing it?

00:46:30:22 - 00:46:46:05

Luna

How did you decide how to organize it? Because I feel like the more that I learn about sex, the more I'm like disorganized because I'm like, there's just so much. And then the two of you sat down together and were like, okay, we've been doing this podcast and now here's a book. What was that like for you?

00:46:46:06 - 00:47:04:05

Amy

Oh my goodness. Okay, first of all, started with I don't recommend for anyone to write a book unless you're really committed to the journey. I have a partner. April's a partner. It's as if we both were in partnerships and also a prior, essentially a non-sexual life partnership with each other. We've been best friends since. Yeah, it's like 16 years.

00:47:04:06 - 00:47:17:18

Amy

It's almost like we were identical twins. We have weird language, like no one gets us together. We were like, well, I'm, so if you're dating us, you're dating the other person, but you don't get to have sex with them. We're not in that realm of, sharing, our friends with each other. But we're writing a book.

00:47:17:18 - 00:47:34:22

Amy

Right? So now we're dating the book, and we're both dating in the book, and we're dating the book for, like, two plus years, you know? So a year ago, we were still writing the book, and it was, you know, after a whole year writing the books, a year or two of writing the book, if I looked at like my average day at how I spent my time, the book took up more of it than anything in my life.

00:47:35:01 - 00:47:51:01

Amy

More than the podcast, more than my relationship, more than Amy's self-care time. Or like, loving my dog. Although my dog got to be my lot for most of the book, so that was cool. So it's huge commitment. We had deadlines because we had a publisher, but they were not crazy. Now, like in a month, you have to give us this.

00:47:51:01 - 00:48:14:07

Amy

You know, it's like it was like, you know, six months with you, this and this. So it was a huge, beautiful accomplishment. But I'll tell people, first of all, writing a book with another person does not make it easier because you're running all of your ideas off of in with another person. Right. So the way we wrote the book was I wrote all the raw material, so I essentially wrote the whole book.

00:48:14:09 - 00:48:34:17

Amy

And then April rewrote the whole book. So I finished chapter one. She go back to chapter one and rewrite it, revamp it, add in humor, add in her own stories and add in all kinds of things that I would miss. So we both essentially individually wrote a book, but it's collectively at the same time. So the choose your own adventure thing also choose your own pleasure path.

00:48:34:17 - 00:48:50:17

Amy

In our world it goes with our shameless sex podcast. Premise is that no one can tell you who to be is a sexual being. So if we wrote a self-help book about sex, we can't say, here's what you should do instead is here's a lot of ideas and what you can do. And so the better question when you're like, here's my issue.

00:48:50:19 - 00:49:06:21

Amy

You know, I want to have more orgasm sex. I can't have orgasms in sex. I can't get hard. When I have sex. I want to try kinky things. I want to cross-dress. I don't know, whatever your jam is, what do I do? One thing we discovered one. People are commonly asking the same question, which is either am I normal?

00:49:06:21 - 00:49:23:06

Amy

Am I broken? So the book opens with those two chapters. Am I normal and am I broken? And I understand that if you open the book, like why is it so heavy in the beginning? It's because we often need to go through some of the heaviest to get to the like. How do I have super hot sex stuff?

00:49:23:06 - 00:49:37:15

Amy

And so that comes later. Like how do I have hotter steamier more connected sex, you know, how do I ask for what I want in her? I spice things up or keep it spicy. That happens, but that's after for a lot of people. They've already gone into like the heavies in the challenging things. You don't have to do that.

00:49:37:15 - 00:49:54:17

Amy

You might already be in the place to just like, I want to do fun things and I feel good, then do that. And we have that for you too. We looked at all of our sex questions from years, you know, at that point was like, was it five plus years of having a podcast and we saw these themes and there were eight themes that we turned the book into into eight chapters.

00:49:54:19 - 00:50:10:09

Amy

And so am I normal? Am I broken? How do I talk about sex, how do I know what I even want, etc. and then we created this. We love the Choose Your own Adventure books from the past, where it's like, do you want to go down the cliff with the abominable snowman? Do you want to hug the Abominable Snowman?

00:50:10:12 - 00:50:28:17

Amy

Do you want to Taliban? No, no man. That. Hey it's cool. Do you want to have cheeseburger? I don't know, I'm really bad at this kind of thing, but. And so ours was more like, okay, here's your issue. You're asking this question. Here are the possible outcomes you can achieve, right? Like, if it's hard for me to have an orgasm during penetrative sex, number one.

00:50:28:22 - 00:50:50:06

Amy

So do you want to learn how to orgasm through penetrative sex for yourself? Right. Like this is going to make me feel more alive, more full. This is something that feels really good. Then go to this page. Is it because you want to please your partner in that's really important to you? Go to this page. Are you wanting to actually learn how to talk to your partner about how having orgasm during sex isn't your top priority?

00:50:50:08 - 00:51:11:00

Amy

You go to this page, right? Like isn't the most important thing that you just like. Having sex and pleasure is pleasure. So we really wanted it to speak to people in the way where they can be the creators of their own sexual experiences and empower them, as opposed to telling them, here's how you should be not easy to do, because our book is written in past, present and future.

00:51:11:00 - 00:51:23:16

Amy

So it's not just like, yeah, right. So you're like, oh, so you might you might read a chapter in chapter seven that takes you back to chapter two, if that's the outcome you want. And that is really fucking hard, right? I know it's.

00:51:23:18 - 00:51:27:16

Luna

I mean, it's hard to organize. It's a great feat. Yeah. But it's a fun kind of.

00:51:27:16 - 00:51:47:21

Amy

Yeah. It's like the most elaborate crossword jigsaw puzzle when we are writing it, because every time you're writing something like a chapter, you're like, okay, but does this go here or in seven or 1 or 8, I don't know. And so, like, our brains are getting twisted left and right. And so I'll end my long rant with, I would suggest and April and I should have done this, but we didn't.

00:51:48:02 - 00:52:04:17

Amy

For everyone who writes a book with another person to get a therapist so you can talk out all the shit that's not even related to the book. More like you didn't hear me. You didn't see me. You dismiss what I said because we had a lot of those moments. We're just really good at talking about them. Are skilled at communicating.

00:52:04:17 - 00:52:19:22

Amy

We'd love each other so much that it's really important for us that when we don't meet each other or feel met, we might, like, tear each other's heads off verbally for a second. And then we come around. We're like, all right, let's talk about this. And we have those skills. But the middle human would have been good at.

00:52:20:00 - 00:52:26:06

Luna

What would you say you are most excited to explore or grow in your work going forward?

00:52:26:08 - 00:52:46:14

Amy

Well, yeah, we're still growing the book because it just launched what, like not even two months ago. So we're going to continue to do that. A newer thing that we have been doing at shameless Sex and shameless sex, I think to me is the most exciting. I love working with Uber, I love working with clients and so sexy to me feels like endless expansion possibilities.

00:52:46:16 - 00:53:05:06

Amy

Also, it's podcasts, right? We can get out to thousands upon thousands of people just by talking on microphone, putting on iTunes and Spotify, which is so fucking cool. Like someone in the middle of nowhere who doesn't have sex education can listen to your podcast or listen to our podcast and be inspired and be like, Holy fuck, I want to try that.

00:53:05:06 - 00:53:24:06

Amy

Or like, I want to change. I want to grow. And here's some ways I can do that. We hope to not ever stop doing what we're doing. What we recently started doing. We had our first shameless sex retreat in early November in Costa Rica, so we did a women's only vulva owning human retreat and it was fucking beautiful.

00:53:24:06 - 00:53:47:13

Amy

Not just Costa Rica, less beautiful, but just to see a group of like minded people. Because if you're, you know, shameless sex listener, obviously you're a little more open minded than not being a shameless listener, and you're there for a reason to, like, expand yourself in your sexual or most embodied sensual self way. And so it was a mix of play and nature and relaxation and body, man and sexy.

00:53:47:16 - 00:54:12:13

Amy

You know, you go from like naked dance parties with tequila shots to like, you know, a massage and relaxation to, you know, people. Like, we did an erotic photography photoshoot that was so powerful. It was like everyone had their own solo experiences. And we did on day three. Next time we're doing day two because of the rest of the retreat, all the women were just walking around complimenting each other left and right like, oh my God, you're so beautiful.

00:54:12:13 - 00:54:29:12

Amy

Pop your booty out a little more. Let me take a picture. You know, things like that. Like, just not like, you know, pop it out for some man's gaze. It's just like, you're fucking hot. Let's celebrate that. And so we're going to do those retreats now at least twice a year. We have another one coming up the end of April and bloom one of their market, a shameless Dexcom.

00:54:29:14 - 00:54:46:07

Amy

That one would be for women or vulva owning folks again. And then we want to open up to couples. We'd like to do all genders. My concern with all genders is we're it's not just couples. Is that everyone? Not everyone, some people think is an orgy. And I'm fine with an orgy, but I'm not here to facilitate an orgy at my retreat at.

00:54:46:09 - 00:54:57:23

Amy

Oh, yeah? Yeah, I feel like the consent regulation is going to be heavier in that. And that's not a problem. Is is not a thing I'm really wanting to take on in a tropical place.

00:54:57:23 - 00:55:20:05

Luna

Right now, for sure. For sure. You're like, I'm trying to retreat here, not please. Yeah, I'm on retreat too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome. And I feel the retreat vibes and yeah, I mean, just as a photographer myself, like, the erotic photography is my fucking favorite form of helping people open up. Like that and capturing those juicy parts.

00:55:20:06 - 00:55:40:05

Amy

It's so powerful. Just. And I think when people hear erotic photography, they're like, oh, you know, sex or sexual, but like, you know, erotic. And I'm sure you've seen this too, like, you and your work like erotic. It's everyone's definition of erotic. It's like, you know, it's erotic to you, like having a shawl over your shoulders where we take a photo where it's just one shoulder popping out from the back, and we don't even see your face or anything else.

00:55:40:06 - 00:55:53:16

Amy

And that's erotic. And it's really mind opening for people to see it. But the question you asked earlier, like, you know, what's your sexy? It helps people see, like, what's your unique sexy? It's so important, I think, for people to tap into if they want to.

00:55:53:21 - 00:56:12:17

Luna

Yeah. And I know that like when I see myself through another photographer's eyes, I'm able to offer that same experience to another person, right? So they're like, oh my God, I'm beautiful. I'm like, yeah, that's exactly what you look like. I captured it. You're welcome. Yeah. You know, it's real. Yeah. There you are. And like you said, that energy shift is so palpable.

00:56:12:19 - 00:56:19:11

Luna

What about in your personal life? What are you most excited to explore sexually for yourself going forward?

00:56:19:13 - 00:56:42:12

Amy

Let's see if you look at my sexual bucket list, I'm looking for two dicks at the same time. Yes, at some point, my little ever growing, expanding sexual bucket list of things and I'm not certain some of them are like ideas and really know if I want to bring it to fruition. My spank bank these days last, like under 3 or 4 months, has involved the idea of two cocks in my body.

00:56:42:12 - 00:56:55:14

Amy

And like, I'm really into like, again, as I said earlier, like the dominance and I like this is my partner where he's kind of directing it, but he's also like telling the other man, like what he can do with my body. And then I'm still consenting to it, by the way. I'm like a part of it. But yeah, so that's on my list.

00:56:55:14 - 00:57:15:04

Amy

I don't know if I like it, I haven't done it yet. I might be too much and be like, that's too many dicks. One. Too many, I don't know. So yeah, that's one of them continuing to learn more about myself in the non-monogamy field, because I think that it makes me feel like my brain and heart are expanding and growing and I like that feeling.

00:57:15:04 - 00:57:32:13

Amy

And it's not in a way where it's like panic zone, like are too much I can't handle. This is more like it's a lot or it's edgy, but like, let me see what happens here. And I'm finding that the moment and maybe you can identify with this, like when I feel like I'm hitting an edge, but I can work with it.

00:57:32:15 - 00:57:48:12

Amy

It's like this expansiveness that feels I keep going back to the word alive, but like more alive or like my heart just grew ten times bigger, or my brain did, or my pussy did in a really powerful way. Yeah, you get that. Okay, good. I'm not just not just me.

00:57:48:14 - 00:58:03:15

Luna

I totally get that well into me. I feel like it's like those kinds of connections creates this huge ripple effect that, for me, spreads through my creativity, through the whole world, through all of us. You know, that's what you help people with. That's what we're helping people kind of like, uncover for themselves, hopefully if they want it, you know.

00:58:03:21 - 00:58:22:11

Amy

Yeah, that's a jam. And yeah, like that, like the creativity piece that when I have those expansive experiences or even not even like I'll say like having amazing sex with my partner is worshiping my pussy or like or not, but it's amazing sex. Yeah. You should see me the next day. I'm in a great mood. I am so much more motivated to like tackle my work world.

00:58:22:16 - 00:58:32:18

Amy

I see my family like, hey, what's up? What's up? You know, like it's fuel and I know how to utilize it. And yeah, I'm so grateful that I've discovered that in this lifetime.

00:58:32:20 - 00:58:40:17

Luna

I meant to ask you this earlier. Tell us about your drive by dating method. What is this? What is this? What you would drive by?

00:58:40:17 - 00:59:01:06

Amy

Daddy. So the drive by daddy. So I like the daddy little girl dynamic, but it's not familial. You're not playing my actual father in this role play scenario. You're just that daddy energy like that, you know, dominant, confident. Like I got this. Anything you bring here is welcome. Yeah. Nurturing. But, like, sexy and like, there is like this.

00:59:01:06 - 00:59:12:21

Amy

You've been a bad girl. I'm in to spank you. But you're still not my dad. You're like a daddy can think of, like, leather daddies or the gay community. Yeah, right. Like it's not like you're. Are you my daddy? You know, can I have a teddy bear now? And that's. And that's for some people. I'm just not doing it.

00:59:12:21 - 00:59:35:11

Amy

You could call it like littles play, but it really isn't. Or it is some form of play without it being familial. So anyways, the drive by daddy. So I have found that in initial engagements with some potential dates, I have been able to like over text messages like, you know, like, oh, you know, just kind of flirting. They'll say something like, do you want to come over to my house?

00:59:35:11 - 00:59:53:15

Amy

So my drive by daddy means I'm testing them to see if they're daddy without their consent. Where's. So they're like, do you want to come to my house? Like, whatever you want, daddy. And send that back in a text message and their response matters. It says no. Like, are you a daddy or are you not? If they're a daddy, they're gonna be like, oh, okay, little girl.

00:59:53:15 - 01:00:09:10

Amy

Yeah, well, you better get over here sooner or later. Otherwise you're going to be in trouble or something like that. And if they're not a dad, they're like, daddy? LOL. You know, like smiley face, laugh out loud and that's fine. If that's their thing, it just shows me like, okay, that's not your jam into this might not be a good fit.

01:00:09:10 - 01:00:26:05

Amy

And again, I don't want to live that in all my sex, but I don't want to be a mommy. I am not a mommy. I will be a mommy in everyday life, but not in sex. No no no no, mommy's over here. It's not my thing. So yes, my drive by day is like a way of just dropping the daddy word or hint to see are you a daddy and seeing how you respond.

01:00:26:05 - 01:00:41:06

Amy

And I have found that most of the people that I'm doing that with, maybe they're already giving daddy signs. And actually, when I think back to a lot of them are like at least five plus years older than me, some of them had kids. They responded perfectly and I was like, haha, I got them like, I have like at least five different.

01:00:41:12 - 01:00:46:22

Amy

My recollections of like drive by dating where the response is like, oh, you a daddy? Perfect.

01:00:47:00 - 01:01:04:19

Luna

Okay. That's amazing. Do you want to hear the fantasy though that I thought it? I mean, when I hear Drive By Daddy, I'm imagining you in April. Maybe I'm your driver. Like in a convertible. Like going around, like, like catcalling dudes on the corner. And if they pass the daddy test, then they get in, and then maybe, I don't know, are we taking them to a sex party?

01:01:04:19 - 01:01:07:05

Luna

Immature.

01:01:07:06 - 01:01:22:09

Amy

Oh, we got April with love. This because one of her. Oh, this is like a couple years ago. She's moved beyond this for some reason, but she is that love taxicab porn. And it was like the anonymity or like the randomness. And she likes her son daddy's, for sure. And so when you say that, she probably be turned on by that.

01:01:22:09 - 01:01:35:22

Amy

So for me, it's less about sex and more about like the energy for her, she'd be like, oh fuck yeah, let's go drive around, Big Daddy. Are you my daddy? Do that? She'd love that. I will, she'll listen this episode. April, this one's for you. We're going to do it.

01:01:36:00 - 01:01:39:18

Luna

Are you my daddy? When were you recently tested? Yeah.

01:01:39:20 - 01:01:42:11

Amy

But, like, tell me. Give you yours. They're safer sex. Elevator speech.

01:01:42:11 - 01:01:55:01

Luna

Let's go. Yeah. Okay. Wrapping up here. What do you think? We need to co-create a world we're taking care of each other is the norm. Like, how do we make the world a sexier, more loving place? What's the answer?

01:01:55:03 - 01:02:14:03

Amy

Ooh, yeah. That's a yeah. That's a big I love I love questions like they're I'm like, fuck. Okay, I got I got to get her right. But also there's no way engineer it's endless. Yeah there's no right answer. So okay this is going to sound really fucking cheesy. So I'll talk about like relationships in general. But the way I'm going to talk about it is going to sound like so boring.

01:02:14:08 - 01:02:32:23

Amy

So this is book called the 8080 marriage. I know I said marriage. You're like, what the fuck is she talking about? But the 8080 marriage book, we had one of the authors in her show, and he was talking about how, like, the old school way that was very chauvinist. It was like a 2080 marriage where, like, women were the 20% like their needs, desires, values.

01:02:32:23 - 01:02:51:03

Amy

They're receiving 20% of that. And, you know, the men in his speaking of heterosexual relationships, the men were getting 80% that then we went to this 5050 phase of like tit and tat, right. Like, yeah, like you you get this and I get that and we have to meet each other perfectly. And now we're like testing each other left and right, like, you didn't do this and I did this and you do.

01:02:51:03 - 01:03:05:23

Amy

Yeah. So that and that's just like a mess where he was saying, you know, he wrote this with his partner was like, what if we just went above and beyond? We always brought an extra fucking 30%, even if we didn't think we're going to receive it back. And I don't think this has to just apply to marriages or relationships.

01:03:06:01 - 01:03:26:06

Amy

It can apply to anyone and everyone in the world that you get the privilege. Oh, here's another thing it's a privilege to engage with anyone you get to engage with, to talk to someone, to touch them, to sit next to them. It's a privilege to be invited into someone's emotional or energetic space. So look at it from that perspective.

01:03:26:06 - 01:03:49:06

Amy

Wow. Lucky me. Getting to be here in some way or shape or form with you, which might be really helpful for you to show up with more curiosity, compassion, and a way of where you're giving more. And then if you're going 8080, right, it's like, okay, I'm here. I'm, you know, I'm talking to my friend. How can I show up an extra 30%, like even bigger within my capacity without losing myself?

01:03:49:06 - 01:04:11:04

Amy

Right? I'm not going to do it in a way where, like, I don't have the fuel to do that. It's when you have the fuel, you know, the bandwidth to, like, really listen, to really be curious and like, oh, you know, I know you. But like, who are you today? And that's especially helpful in long term relationships to go about it with like, I know you, I've been with you for five plus years, but like today you're a different person.

01:04:11:04 - 01:04:32:06

Amy

So let me, like, get curious about that. So that's a long winded and like, multifaceted answer. But I think that we can just potentially expand ourselves beyond the way that we want to show up with, like this perfect way of meeting you. Meet me and I meet you instead. It's like, okay, meet me and I meet you, but how can I meet you even more?

01:04:32:11 - 01:04:37:14

Amy

And hopefully you'll be able to meet me even more, regardless of the relationship that you're in.

01:04:37:16 - 01:04:42:10

Luna

I think you did it. I think you answered the question. Generosity and gratitude. Like, that's that's a really, really good that's.

01:04:42:10 - 01:04:47:01

Amy

A really, really good thing. I did not think it be okay.

01:04:47:01 - 01:04:54:19

Luna

And if you could go back in time and give younger you a piece of sex advice, what age or ages would you pick and what would you say?

01:04:54:21 - 01:05:12:10

Amy

I would go to 13 year old Amy, and I say that because I think it might be 12, actually, I think 12 year old Amy, I think the first time it's in the book, I believe the first expense I had was me touching someone else's genitals. It was a silent coercion. There wasn't even a friend. He was like the rich kid that would pick on me.

01:05:12:15 - 01:05:27:16

Amy

And I was friends with his twin sister, and she was dating his friends were all like in one room, and he was like, massage my back in the dark and then and then massage my stomach. And I'm like, scared of this guy. So he picked on me for being a lower class person because my family was lower class family and they were like, not lower class.

01:05:27:18 - 01:05:42:08

Amy

So I'm like, you know, doing these things. But also I wanted attention and like, didn't understand, you know, like anyways. So and then he just took my hand and put it on his, I want to say cock, but I use that for adult penises. So I'm going to go with penis, and just use it as a jack off device.

01:05:42:08 - 01:06:08:21

Amy

And that was it. Like came on his own stomach and then, like, didn't talk to me for like a week after and and he doesn't have to talk to me, but like, you know, like a week after, like. So how was that for you? He's we're fucking 13. But I would have liked to know and I said this earlier, my pleasure in any sexual engagement is just as important, if not more important than the people I'm engaging with because I'm primarily hooking up with engaging with penis owners.

01:06:08:21 - 01:06:33:08

Amy

And if it comes to actual pieces inside of me, that is penetrative sex, meaning I'm the receiving orifice that takes more time, energy, safety, relaxation to open up and connect. And so, like the book, She Comes First. Holy shit. I think every 13 year olds read, if you're planning on having penis and vagina sex, if that's not on your agenda, then probably not.

01:06:33:08 - 01:06:53:17

Amy

But I think that we're we're really missing a lot of language specifically for vulva owning folks, about owning their own pleasure and asking for it, and instead they have a lot of experiences, or I did I had a lot of experiences, giving, not receiving, not knowing how to say, I don't want to give because I was afraid of losing the love or affection that felt good in that moment.

01:06:53:18 - 01:07:08:14

Amy

And I would have loved to just have that more solidified in my being, because it would have had an easier and more pleasurable time throughout my life. I'm having a great time now, but like I have experiences that contribute to who I am today, and they would have been a lot better if I would have had that information.

01:07:08:16 - 01:07:23:04

Luna

Yeah. Fuck yeah. Okay, two fantasy questions first. Ooh, if we suddenly lived in a world where everyone had to be a sex worker for two years, how would you serve?

01:07:23:06 - 01:07:25:03

Amy

Ooh, if I was a sex worker for two years.

01:07:25:16 - 01:07:26:14

Luna

What can we do.

01:07:26:18 - 01:07:45:23

Amy

So I'm not into like humiliation because that's to me that's shaming. That's just not my thing. But I would be a sex worker. Like, it is your fucking honor to touch this pussy. And I'm going to make you work for it from my toes up. And you're going to pay for each and every toe. And part of my foot before you get to the cab, because I'll see you next time.

01:07:45:23 - 01:08:00:14

Amy

Because, you know, I like to layer it on. Then you might get touched. My cab, maybe my shin. Oh, next time you might get some of this knee, and then you can come up those thighs. Maybe I'll give you, like, some outer labia, but not quite. I'm gonna keep my panties on and work your way up and in.

01:08:00:14 - 01:08:10:23

Amy

So maybe, like, the 10th time we see each other, then you'll finally get to pleasure this pussy. But you're going to pleasure it my way. And in a way that feels really good for you. Yeah, that sounds awesome.

01:08:11:01 - 01:08:17:15

Luna

I love that, and only if they earn it right, then, you know, not not all dominatrix is ever even get touched at all. So they have to do a good.

01:08:17:20 - 01:08:33:00

Amy

Yeah, and I'm not gonna say it mean things. You know, I'll be like, you're doing a bad job. More like. Oh, yeah, more of that. Yeah. Oh, you're doing oh, maybe a little less of that. I'm also teaching you about like. I mean, what my body likes about how to go really slow and, like, work your way up and really savor and all of the delicious meal, which.

01:08:33:00 - 01:08:45:23

Luna

Is a huge gift. Okay. And now you have an unlimited budget to build the perfect playroom or dungeon or castle, etc. whatever structure you desire for you and or your brand. So what is it like?

01:08:46:01 - 01:09:05:06

Amy

Oh my god, this is awesome! Okay, first of all, I don't like huge spaces because I feel my most safe in smaller spaces, but I am also claustrophobic, so I'm not thinking like a coffin. Small, everyone. I'm thinking like I don't want a castle. I want like something that is like, you know, three rooms, master bedroom thing in the back.

01:09:05:06 - 01:09:20:16

Amy

It has a pool and a hot tub. I want a sauna. I want a cool place. I mean, all the things I want all the aquatic sports. I'm not talking about water sports. Meaning? Well, if you're into that, that's cool. You do you. But I want it like a spa. Meet sexy. And so there's one room is dedicated to, like, kink dungeon vibes.

01:09:20:16 - 01:09:38:02

Amy

It has, like purple and red lights. It has one of those beds with big bed frames and you can tie things to it. And one of those swings is good for like squirting and access and G-spot. And it's really easily and quickly, not really into the whole like being put up on the cross thing, but like I'd have that in there for the people that came over because I like watching that.

01:09:38:02 - 01:09:57:19

Amy

That's fun. Yeah. So I have my dungeon. Yeah. And I have all the accouterments, all the things in there. Choose your own adventure. And so I've also had this dream of having a room that is just mattresses. The all the floor is just mattresses. There's not even one gap where it's floor. So you walk in, you're on mattress and it's just like roly poly sexy space.

01:09:57:19 - 01:10:12:16

Amy

I like going to sex parties with this individual mattresses, but I kind of want to go in and just roly poly all my way around a bunch of mattresses and have like, you know, some sort of, like, group sex experience there. So that's the mattress room. And then there's the room that's like this kind of like more mellow space.

01:10:12:16 - 01:10:25:00

Amy

Oh, I need a fourth room for, like, the quiet space where if you don't want to have sex. Yeah, you gotta have the quiet space room. That could be the kitchen there where the food is. That's like the, like, just chill and not be surrounded by circles. Yeah. Like, sometimes you need to get away from the sex and just, like, take a breath.

01:10:25:00 - 01:10:37:15

Amy

So I guess it's kind of like a chalet. Oh, and I have no neighbors. Like, the neighbors are, like, a mile away. Yes, we're going to be really loud. And yeah, that needs to be okay. Or my neighbors are really cool.

01:10:37:17 - 01:10:49:20

Luna

I fucking love it. Lovers, go listen to shameless sex if you haven't already, go get the book shameless sex. If you want to go read it, go choose your own pleasure adventure. Amy, thank you so much for being a guest on Zach's stories.

01:10:49:22 - 01:11:02:14

Amy

Thank you for having me. So fun. And, you're on our show. I think it's coming out sometime in January of 2024. So come check out shameless next to hear your favorite from sex stories. Because we love her and she's awesome.