listen now // watch on youtube

35 queer white Jewish cis female, she/her pronouns, poly, burlesque performer, writer, into: phone sex, robot fetishists, nun and religious play, cucks, subs, power play, candle wax, rope play, and biting.

🔗 FANCY FEAST LINKS |  Get your copy of Naked by Fancy Feast / @FancyFeastBurlesque

share your thoughts / share a story

apply to be a guest

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:19:08

Luna

And our guest today. She is a white Jewish system who is non-monogamous, queer, and loves cook subs and powerplay. She's done a lot of robot role play, which I am so excited to hear about. Is interested in nun and religious play. Has stories of teaching blowjob workshops, cold reading, other people's kinks on the fly, and talking about sex with strangers.

00:00:19:08 - 00:00:45:16

Luna

My favorite past sexy jobs include sex shop worker, which I really feel like we need a better name for because it includes a fuck ton of sex education, both receiving and giving, and she also has worked as a phone sex operator, a writer, burlesque performer, social worker, and all around creative genius from the East Coast, and author of Naked on Sex Work and other Burlesque, which I just read and is truly a wonderful collection of sex stories.

00:00:45:16 - 00:00:51:08

Luna

Go get it. Go read it. If you get it from the library, make sure to tip her in some way, shape or form. Welcome. Fancy feast?

00:00:51:13 - 00:00:53:12

Fancy

Hell yeah. Thanks for having me.

00:00:53:14 - 00:01:07:02

Luna

I am so excited that you are here today. Can you start off by telling us if you had to rate yourself today on a shame meter with one being I don't have any shame and ten being like, oh yeah, so Jamie, where are you today and why did you pick that number?

00:01:07:04 - 00:01:09:16

Fancy

Oh, I'm pretty high up on the shame meter.

00:01:09:19 - 00:01:10:10

Luna

Really.

00:01:10:10 - 00:01:12:05

Fancy

I know, shocking, right? We're starting off.

00:01:12:05 - 00:01:14:11

Luna

I am shocked. Yeah, yeah.

00:01:14:13 - 00:01:24:07

Fancy

My shame is not a sexual shame. I will say that my sexual shame is at zero. It usually is. But like, in terms of just like general shame. Yeah, like higher than usual. Maybe like a seven.

00:01:24:11 - 00:01:37:04

Luna

Okay. When does it fluctuate? Okay. So not so much with the sex but like how do you I am trying to figure out shame. I feel it in funny places I gather by talking to people, but I would love to just hear a little bit about your roller coaster of shame.

00:01:37:06 - 00:02:09:04

Fancy

Oh, okay, so let's see. I have been in breakup season, and so one of the things that I've been doing this breakup season is really taking the opportunity to do a deep personal inventory. And so that is accompanied by discovering things about myself that I thought I knew and did not actually know. So there's been a lot of sort of breaking open the season, and it's shame and curiosity, like, I do feel like there's a certain kind of shame that like, forecloses on curiosity, but then there's a shame that's like, how did I not know this about myself?

00:02:09:04 - 00:02:16:22

Fancy

You know, I'm supposed to be so self-aware. So that's kind of where I'm at right now. Like, what is that, like an auto sociological shame?

00:02:17:00 - 00:02:17:13

Luna

Wow.

00:02:17:13 - 00:02:27:19

Luna

Okay, and then tell us about your sexy zero shame, though. Like, did that start with the work at the sex shop? Like, what was kind of just the overall arc of your personal sexual shame?

00:02:27:21 - 00:02:52:18

Fancy

I was not taught to hate myself or to be scared of sexuality. Sexual discussion was like fine and not stigmatized in my family. Growing up, my mother used to like work the phones for Planned Parenthood in the 60s, so I had sort of like a hippie upbringing around sexuality, as well as being raised religiously in a Jewish tradition.

00:02:52:19 - 00:03:02:08

Fancy

Jews love talking about sex and love holding themselves in contrast to Catholics or things like that, like religions that play with sexual shame, that require sexual shame.

00:03:02:12 - 00:03:04:02

Luna

I didn't know that.

00:03:04:04 - 00:03:14:05

Fancy

Yeah, there’s like this whole like it's like, oh, well, like sex is considered a mitzvah in the Torah. It's like considered a good deed, particularly if it's considered satisfying. Like if you can make somebody cum, that's a mitzvah.

00:03:14:06 - 00:03:17:00

Fancy

So I was like a great early.

00:03:17:00 - 00:03:27:11

Fancy

Adopter of that kind of vibe. And so I didn't realize that we had a culture that heated bodies and heated sex until much later. And by then I felt like my goose was kind of cooked.

00:03:27:12 - 00:03:28:12

Luna

Yeah, yeah.

00:03:28:14 - 00:03:53:09

Luna

And then you were such a uniquely creative human being. I want to ask you a version of this question of never ask anyone your artistry. Was there ever difficulty in coming out around that? And in this book you can read about, like, earlier performance origins and some of the stuff that got shoved on you. But like overall, you talked about it being difficult to write, but like, how do you experience, if at all, shame and your artistry?

00:03:53:11 - 00:04:12:17

Fancy

I think there's some ab testing, like when you're taking off your clothes for strangers, having shame be a dominant mode is not advantageous. So there's a certain sense of like, it's really not going to all come out well. I'm baking without a recipe. Sometimes it doesn't rise. Okay. Didn't didn't win this round or like, oh, the audience hated me or hated this.

00:04:12:17 - 00:04:13:12

Fancy

I'm like, got it?

00:04:13:12 - 00:04:21:00

Fancy

Okay, so how I tweak it or like, do I want to keep this? Do I want to discard this? But that's not a shame. That's just sort of like experimentation.

00:04:21:05 - 00:04:21:16

Luna

Yeah, yeah.

00:04:21:21 - 00:04:39:21

Fancy

Around writing, I didn't really experience a lot of shame. I had some frustration. There were thoughts that felt really beautiful when I was on the toilet or on the subway or in shower or whatever. And then by the time I got to my laptop, I was like, oh, it's just garbage that's coming out. But it wasn't because I'm bad or anything like that.

00:04:39:21 - 00:04:45:12

Fancy

It was just this. It's difficult to translate ephemeral experiences into written word.

00:04:45:16 - 00:04:46:09

Luna

Yeah, yeah.

00:04:46:09 - 00:04:57:15

Luna

Although I do want to like, insert my own opinion here and say, I really love your words. I think you are a gifted words person personally, and I read a lot of books. I read maybe 3 to 6 books a week.

00:04:57:17 - 00:04:58:22

Luna

Oh yeah, yeah.

00:04:58:22 - 00:05:05:19

Luna

Yeah, yeah. So I appreciate your words. Okay. Tell us now what is sex to fancy.

00:05:05:21 - 00:05:07:02

Fancy

Sex to fancy.

00:05:07:04 - 00:05:10:01

Fancy

Sex to fancy is a is a place to.

00:05:10:04 - 00:05:25:23

Fancy

Try shit out, let it go. To be really embodied and experience sensation. Like to tap into creativity and fun. Tell stories together. Like to be connected. It's so many different things. It's wonderful.

00:05:26:00 - 00:05:31:07

Luna

I love that answer. Same vein, but a little bit different. What is sexy to you?

00:05:31:09 - 00:05:34:10

Fancy

What is sexy to me? I mean, besides money?

00:05:34:12 - 00:05:35:13

Luna

It's so sexy.

00:05:35:17 - 00:05:40:11

Luna

I love getting concretely valued that hot go to fancy food.

00:05:40:12 - 00:05:41:03

Fancy

A living wage.

00:05:41:03 - 00:05:55:12

Fancy

Is number one. Is. Yeah, yeah, okay. I find generosity to be really sexy. I find vulnerability to be really sexy. Creativity, empathy. But, I mean, I could get I could get pedantic, like body hair, but like.

00:05:55:14 - 00:05:59:12

Luna

Yeah, just know I like all of these. Good. Wait, you.

00:05:59:12 - 00:06:01:02

Luna

Do think body hair is sexy?

00:06:01:04 - 00:06:02:00

Fancy

Fuck yeah, I do.

00:06:02:00 - 00:06:02:18

Fancy

I love it.

00:06:02:20 - 00:06:16:21

Luna

Like, sometimes when someone does have body hair that I like because I like all of it, right? I'm like, if you're comfy, then I will appreciate you. I have been known to pretend that I'm a goat and we'll just like, you know, not like chew off the hair on their arm, but just, like, play with it because it's another spot to have sensations.

00:06:16:21 - 00:06:21:23

Luna

So I'm with you there. Is there a particular type of body hair you find the sexiest?

00:06:22:01 - 00:06:22:14

Fancy

Well, I'm.

00:06:22:14 - 00:06:32:14

Fancy

Kind of a chest hair queen. Yeah, big fan of that. But, like, it's all good to me. Yeah, I don't know, it just it feels really nice. And we're also it's the winter time, so I think I'm like.

00:06:32:16 - 00:06:35:16

Fancy

Craving some. You're, you're you're.

00:06:35:16 - 00:06:37:00

Luna

Killing me up.

00:06:37:02 - 00:06:38:23

Luna

Give me a personal blanket.

00:06:39:01 - 00:06:39:08

Luna

Okay.

00:06:39:08 - 00:06:40:16

Luna

Tell us now if.

00:06:40:16 - 00:06:44:17

Luna

You can articulate it. How important is sex in your life?

00:06:44:19 - 00:07:06:08

Fancy

Sex is really fundamental in my life. But that doesn't mean having sex. I've gone through periods of time where I've had more and had less, and had years where I don't have sex at all. And while I've been working in the sex industry, while I've been writing about sex. So it's something that is part of my life and my livelihood, that is part of my like, desire for my life and part of my personal practice.

00:07:06:10 - 00:07:13:13

Fancy

But it doesn't always find itself as like a goal per se. It's one of the colors that I paint with.

00:07:13:15 - 00:07:14:17

Fancy

Beautiful.

00:07:14:19 - 00:07:24:08

Luna

Can you give us a little snippet overview of what your sex education was like, and then maybe contrast it with what you wish? Modern. The sex ed was like.

00:07:24:10 - 00:07:47:09

Fancy

Absolutely. My first sex ed came from my mother, which was really wonderful, open, non-judgmental, and age appropriate, starting from when I was like 2 or 3. And then I had a copy of Our Bodies ourselves. So I was an autodidact. I was able to like, look things up as I had curiosity. And then when I got to school in middle school, I had something called awareness of growth, which.

00:07:47:11 - 00:07:50:23

Fancy

Was a good name. Yeah, I love.

00:07:50:23 - 00:08:09:20

Fancy

How vague and like my PE teacher taught it and it was like very uncomfortable. And they started talking about like the existence of periods. But it was like two years after I got mine, so I wasn't too little, too late. And then in high school, I remember my guidance counselor putting a condom on a wooden dowel and not being able to get it off.

00:08:09:20 - 00:08:19:07

Fancy

So she had to, like, put it between her knees to like, work it out. Sort of doing the jerk off nation, which iconic like, I think you.

00:08:19:09 - 00:08:24:04

Fancy

Oh, wonderful. For a class of 10th graders to get to see an experience that it.

00:08:24:04 - 00:08:48:11

Fancy

Really did leave something to be desired. But it also was in the context of a private school. So I wasn't beholden to like, state guidelines around abstinence being part of the curriculum. For example, like I did get sex ed that acknowledged, you know, the existence of STIs and contraception and that people are going to be sexually active. We didn't talk about queerness or trans ness, and we didn't really talk about consent, and we certainly didn't talk about pleasure.

00:08:48:14 - 00:09:07:21

Fancy

So those are some major topics that I feel like probably would have been official. And then when I moved to New York and started working at a sex toy store, the sex shop, really take sex education seriously. And and the onboarding process was comprehensive sex ed like, whatever, I thought I was getting times a million.

00:09:07:23 - 00:09:23:17

Luna

I got so inspired reading that part, I was like, I want to. And then afterward you said all the terrible parts of working at a sexual. But I was like, right, right. Don't do everything related to sex. Stop it, stop it. But do you feel comfortable saying what sex shop you worked at, or is that explicitly not included on purpose?

00:09:23:19 - 00:09:35:12

Fancy

Oh, you know, I redacted it just in case they were going to like, sue me, but they haven't. Okay, so it's bland. I was the education coordinator there for years. That's awesome. And then also, yeah, help them unionize.

00:09:35:13 - 00:09:50:06

Luna

That's awesome. Okay. So again listeners go listen to the book or read the book with your eyeballs. Both versions are good. They're both good. I check them out. Tell us now what health and safety practices do you need to feel safe with a lover?

00:09:50:08 - 00:09:52:13

Fancy

So have some safety practices.

00:09:52:15 - 00:10:25:12

Fancy

Having a conversation about our relationship to barriers, our relationship to risk taking, our relationship to body fluids. There's a lot that's sort of negotiable. As long as we are being open and on the same page. I'm not a hard and fast like condoms always are. Like no dental dams ever or whatever. The thing is like this, I'm willing to do a lot of different things as long as there is open discourse about it and understanding that we are both engaging in a level of risk that feels acceptable and appropriate to us.

00:10:25:14 - 00:10:53:22

Fancy

I was talking to a boyfriend about this and he's like, yeah, when I say safety, I don't mean safety. Like, you know, being at home in a hazmat suit or something like that. It's like this. What I mean is like safety, as in what a skydiver does that is like acknowledging that that I'm doing something that involves an inherent level of risk and taking all the precautions necessary to minimize that, while not sort of reducing my possibilities for like joy and openness.

00:10:54:00 - 00:10:59:20

Luna

I really feel that. And it also sounds just listening to you. It sounds like trust building is a part of that.

00:10:59:22 - 00:11:05:00

Fancy

Absolutely. These days, if I don't trust you, I'm not going to fuck you. There were other times in my life.

00:11:05:00 - 00:11:07:17

Fancy

Where other things would have been true, but these days.

00:11:07:17 - 00:11:08:16

Fancy

Like I am too.

00:11:08:16 - 00:11:10:13

Fancy

Busy, so anybody.

00:11:10:13 - 00:11:14:21

Fancy

Who makes it in has to be worth having this conversation with.

00:11:14:23 - 00:11:33:23

Luna

I love that. Okay, not to get lost in the weeds, but I would love to hear what criteria of trust, right? Because trust is so big and so like, what are kind of the main components for a sexual relationship or a personal relationship that might include sex? Like what flags? Green flags are you looking for?

00:11:34:01 - 00:11:58:21

Fancy

Green flags. What I'm looking for are openness and not having a lot of shame or a stigma around talking about one's sexual practices, testing practices, and partners, for example, both in terms of being able to deliver that information and receive that information from somebody else, somebody who is good at hearing and adhering to boundaries. So someone who's not going to try to push the issue.

00:11:58:21 - 00:12:22:19

Fancy

If there's something that is a non-negotiable for me or for somebody else, and a sense of fun and possibility within the sort of guidelines that are created. So the idea that these are agreements that are keeping us as safe as possible, that doesn't reduce our ability to have fun with each other. And so if it's treated like what a chore, then that means to me that the person is not really worth fucking.

00:12:23:01 - 00:12:39:20

Luna

Yeah, it's like a disqualifier like, oh, okay. Thanks. Can you give us just a little snippet of like, what are health and safety conversations like for you? Are you usually the initiator? Are there any like phrases or words that you find very helpful? You don't have to take us through the full thing, but just like any key moments there.

00:12:39:22 - 00:12:41:18

Fancy

Oh yeah.

00:12:41:19 - 00:12:54:18

Fancy

It kind of rolls off my tongue these days. And I think that has a lot to do with so many years working in sex education. But I'll volunteer the information first that like, I think a lot of people feel put on the spot. If it's like, hey, when were you last test?

00:12:54:18 - 00:12:56:21

Fancy

Yeah. So that sort of set things up in.

00:12:56:21 - 00:13:24:00

Fancy

A, in an interrogation kind of context, so to say, like, okay, so it's been, you know, whatever. Like I last got tested this month and my results were this, it's like, oh, I tested positive for HPV like ten years ago and cleared it nine years ago. And that's been my sexual health history or whatever. I want to use condoms if we're doing penetration or using any toys, and I want to put down a puppy pad or whatever, whatever the thing is, and like, oh, I love.

00:13:24:00 - 00:13:24:12

Fancy

How do you feel.

00:13:24:12 - 00:13:28:20

Fancy

About that? Does that work for you? It doesn't really need to be particularly complicated.

00:13:28:22 - 00:13:29:09

Fancy

Beautiful.

00:13:29:11 - 00:13:44:03

Luna

I love that, and even just hearing the example in your voice and your demeanor I think is so helpful. Personally. So before we dive into all of your details, broadly speaking, how are you making the world of sex? You're more loving place.

00:13:44:05 - 00:13:44:18

Fancy

00:13:44:20 - 00:13:47:23

Fancy

These days I'm not so sure. I mean, I.

00:13:48:01 - 00:13:50:11

Luna

I think you love your book. I'm going to answer for you that your book.

00:13:50:13 - 00:13:50:17

Fancy

Like.

00:13:50:18 - 00:13:52:12

Luna

That's easy. It's doing the work for you, but, like.

00:13:52:12 - 00:13:55:20

Fancy

It's really good. Yeah. It's been really.

00:13:55:20 - 00:14:18:22

Fancy

Special to have something that is concrete that exists. It's reaches, like, much farther than, for example, like a room full of people that I could meet on stage. Like we all would have to be in the same geographic location in the same time in order for the message to work. But in this case, like there's a library in Skokie where my book is checked out, and I'm thinking about that person in Skokie.

00:14:18:22 - 00:14:19:23

Fancy

So, like.

00:14:20:00 - 00:14:43:13

Fancy

Being able to write down and record my experiences in the sexual underground and in nightlife spaces and in spaces that are marginal or proximal to the sex industry or within the sex industry, and to do so in a way that feels as emotionally complex and complete as I can do. As I have experienced, it feels like the kind of contribution that I want to make to the sex world.

00:14:43:18 - 00:15:13:01

Fancy

I am not interested in the sort of flattened narratives around it is purely empowering and purely always a good time to be, you know, a sexy worker. Neither is it all terrible exploitation, like a nightmare, but that, like reality so often exists in between. But we don't have that attitude toward nuance. When people are talking about sexuality, there's a desire to categorize it into a sort of black and white mode.

00:15:13:03 - 00:15:17:17

Fancy

I think that makes things sexier, allowing things to exist in their complication and nuance.

00:15:17:19 - 00:15:18:14

Fancy

Yeah.

00:15:18:16 - 00:15:38:20

Luna

I think you really nailed a lot of nuance because I had such. So I've been like researching sex anecdotally through books, through people for five years, like straight. I was doing a mixture of listening to and reading with eyeballs your book, and there was a part where you talked about sex workers and gave kind of like an example.

00:15:38:20 - 00:16:00:02

Luna

I can't even remember what the parallel was, but you were just like, they're they're not going to be harming children like you. Really. Every time there was like a point the way that you unpacked it for people I thought was so clear and so both sides. And then through your own experiences, I saw a person who was able to like, have in some cases like really difficult but also really beautiful experiences.

00:16:00:02 - 00:16:23:20

Luna

And I love that it was never just like the story of self at any moment. It was like there was space for all of it. And I do think that that way of sharing is a great example to make the world sexier and more loving, both relationally and toward yourself too. Right. Like it was. Yeah. So okay, so I really want to direct listeners to your professional origin story, I think is very clearly outlined in the book.

00:16:23:20 - 00:16:31:23

Luna

I love the way that you. Oh, but you know what? I would like to know? How did you decide what order to put the chapters in? Because it's not chronological.

00:16:32:00 - 00:16:48:22

Fancy

No. It's not. I wanted the book to take readers from one sort of state of being to another. Like I knew a feeling that I wanted at the beginning of the book and at the end, because it's a similar feeling that I tried to offer in my striptease performances. Oh yeah.

00:16:49:02 - 00:16:52:11

Luna

Yeah, okay. That's a great that like.

00:16:52:13 - 00:17:17:04

Fancy

People think they're coming for this thing that is entertaining and tawdry and sexy and glamorous, and I want them to get that, like, that's important to me. All of that is true. But what I also want to bring people to is this place of emotional catharsis and this use of nudity, in my case, as a metaphor for other kinds of discovery or transformation.

00:17:17:06 - 00:17:37:07

Fancy

And so that arc really guided the order of the essays. So we started off a little bit lighter and a little bit talking more about showbiz. Over time, things deepen. And then by the time I get back to striptease, the the meaning of the striptease has really completely transformed and is intended to be like very sort of deeply emotional.

00:17:37:09 - 00:17:54:23

Fancy

And then I also have my editor to thank for that. She's amazing. And so she was really good at I mean, there were many essays that I wrote for the book that are not in the book, and there are moments where she was like, I feel like this needs another. Like there's another ten pages here that you need to write for us to get to this next beat.

00:17:55:01 - 00:17:56:00

Fancy

Oh, I love that.

00:17:56:06 - 00:18:01:22

Fancy

Yeah. She's fantastic. So I had some really, really good help. But yeah, it's intended to be a long form striptease of sorts.

00:18:02:00 - 00:18:15:21

Luna

Yeah. Because I think I emailed you very excited a third of the way in. And then I got to chapter six and I was like, oh, this is a storyteller. Like you're like, you know, and I. And then I discovered more just artistic things that we had in common with film school and all of that. And I was like, damn.

00:18:15:21 - 00:18:32:04

Luna

And yeah, really beautifully done. But I'm wondering if maybe there are things that didn't make it into the book from your own personal formative years that might feel relevant, you know, like what shaped you into the sexual being you are maybe starting from childhood?

00:18:32:06 - 00:18:56:08

Fancy

Yeah. I had written about my family like there was a whole essay about them and I felt precious about it. I felt really protective of them and also of of having my family appear in the same book alongside some of my sort of more notable sexual exploits, like thinking about how that melosh would sit. And my editor was like, you're being too protective of them.

00:18:56:08 - 00:18:59:15

Fancy

Like, it's not an interesting story if you're just going to be nice.

00:18:59:16 - 00:19:00:18

Fancy

Yeah, yeah.

00:19:00:20 - 00:19:33:08

Fancy

So that was that was removed. But like obviously my my family of origin had a massive influence on who I am and what my values are. There was an essay about working out and sort of experiencing my body through weightlifting, how that also sort of transformed body image stuff, which, you know, is great context. If someone's really interested in me and my life, but doesn't move people through the narrative that we were constructing through the essays, I didn't really write a lot about my childhood, which is not to say that I don't think about my childhood or that it hasn't been influential.

00:19:33:10 - 00:19:38:09

Fancy

I just was like, I don't want to write about my childhood and my comeback, you know.

00:19:38:11 - 00:19:55:10

Luna

That's fair. That's totally fair. I do always ask people about formative experiences, you know, first of touching themselves or playing with partners in consensual, you know, choice driven ways. Is there anything about that kind of like era of your life that feels like relevant to Fancy's sex stories?

00:19:55:12 - 00:20:13:23

Fancy

Absolutely. I taught my entire bunk of fellow campers at Jewish girls overnight camp how to masturbate. We thought you had to have a dick to masturbate. And I had just figured it out that summer, so I was like, there's no way I'm going to, like, leave this knowledge on the table.

00:20:14:01 - 00:20:16:23

Fancy

So I drew diagram of a valve.

00:20:17:01 - 00:20:32:18

Fancy

And I explained the clit and I talked about it. And the next morning, one of my fellow campers was like, hey, thanks. Obviously, word got out because it was like the exciting thing that I had, like, taught everybody how to masturbate. I thought my counselor was going to get me in trouble or anything, but she was.

00:20:32:18 - 00:20:33:02

Fancy

Just.

00:20:33:02 - 00:20:44:08

Fancy

So lovely and open and excited about it. And so then we created a big vulva made out of masking tape, and we put it on her door. So she was on board. It was really nice.

00:20:44:08 - 00:21:01:13

Luna

That's amazing. I'm well, first of all, I wish I had gone to camp with you. And second of all, like one of my, like, big life dreams. Who knows if we'll get there is to create some sort of, like, sex camp, you know, for adults. And then maybe there's, like, the creative oriented, age appropriate part that is family oriented over there.

00:21:01:13 - 00:21:18:18

Luna

You know, because I meet so many people through the course of this work who, like, do want, you know, more hands on tutorials, maybe not just a big paper vulva, but that's so cool. Anything else from formative experiences that, like, taught you about your own body or just other people that feels fun to share?

00:21:18:20 - 00:21:21:20

Fancy

I remember being frantically called upon.

00:21:21:20 - 00:21:23:07

Fancy

To.

00:21:23:09 - 00:21:43:18

Fancy

Help my my friend in high school give a handjob for the first time that, like she met somebody and was like really excited about him but had no idea what to do with a penis when she saw one. So like, she and I each had like bottles of lotion and sort of used the bottles as sort of mock penises.

00:21:43:20 - 00:21:46:19

Fancy

And so I was like guiding her on some techniques and like.

00:21:47:00 - 00:21:47:11

Fancy

Who.

00:21:47:11 - 00:22:00:16

Fancy

Was I? I had not ever given a handjob, and I was talking about this. I don't really know where I was getting my information from, but it was like I was already doing all of this. So then when I started doing like handjob and blowjob workshops at day by end, I was like, oh yeah, like.

00:22:00:18 - 00:22:05:09

Fancy

Finally I'm getting paid for this thing that I've been giving away for free for a year.

00:22:05:11 - 00:22:10:06

Luna

That's amazing. How did you learn? Like what was your personal learning method?

00:22:10:08 - 00:22:38:05

Fancy

Just being a pervert. I think I watched a lot of porn and I was really interested in like, educational porn, like a lot of the sort of old school, like Nina Hartley, like how to kind of porn. That was really meaningful to me, like as a much younger person. And so between that and books like Our Bodies Ourselves, where there were diagrams and explanations, I kind of just like was able to put two and two together and I could talk about, like sensitive parts of the anatomy and like, yeah, different techniques.

00:22:38:07 - 00:22:40:21

Fancy

Damn, who knows what I was doing. I mean, I don't know if it was good.

00:22:40:21 - 00:22:43:21

Fancy

It may not you may not have wanted like that.

00:22:43:23 - 00:22:46:12

Fancy

Or who knows. Right. But like.

00:22:46:14 - 00:23:01:20

Luna

I only read Nina Hartley's book a year and a half ago, and, you know, and I still have, like, a huge list of edu porn that I'm researching because, like, my passion is now, like, how do I create more? Or I drew erotic content but also cross off my bucket list at the same time? Who will do this task with me?

00:23:02:00 - 00:23:21:11

Luna

You know, how do I make sure that what I put on camera is, you know, with a background as a filmmaker? Like I want to do the artistry of communicating the emotional arc of what I'm experiencing. And then as an sex nerd, I want to kind of like, make sure that the informational bits are there, because I also connect with people through information.

00:23:21:13 - 00:23:30:17

Luna

What is it like teaching a blowjob workshop? Like I would just and how many times have you done it and are you bored yet? And like, what do you what's it been like to share some stories?

00:23:30:19 - 00:23:55:15

Fancy

I have touched several hundred were blowjob workshops. I I've lost count. I don't know because I was the education coordinator and so I would run the workshops. So it was sort of defaulted to me to teach when there wasn't a teacher available or when I wanted to pick up some extra cash. And in the sex shop, what it looked like was setting up 60 fold out chairs in the retail space after hours.

00:23:55:15 - 00:24:18:20

Fancy

And I would have like half an hour to turn the store over and like, move all the islands and all that kind of stuff. And then I would be standing on a concrete slab with a co-teacher, and usually the first few years, one of us had a strap on with a dildo, and the other one would be on the slab on their knees, sucking the dick of their co-teacher and talking through the different techniques.

00:24:18:20 - 00:24:29:13

Fancy

And then all of the attendees would be practicing the same techniques using a banana and a condom. So I would have to go to the nearby bodega and buy them out of bananas once that week.

00:24:29:18 - 00:24:33:06

Fancy

Oh my God, that's hilarious.

00:24:33:07 - 00:24:43:08

Fancy

I would not buy bananas for years after working at that store like that grossed me out. And also like my freezer was full of frozen bananas. I made banana bread constantly.

00:24:43:08 - 00:24:47:17

Fancy

Yeah, I bet like, whatever have been lightly used, you know?

00:24:47:19 - 00:24:49:13

Luna

Oh, that is hilarious.

00:24:49:15 - 00:24:49:23

Fancy

But yeah.

00:24:49:23 - 00:24:55:16

Fancy

It was weird because sucking a strap on cock in sex.

00:24:55:18 - 00:24:57:19

Fancy

Much like for like for.

00:24:57:19 - 00:25:00:18

Fancy

Many people, that is like the sex that they have. Yeah. And so it.

00:25:00:18 - 00:25:01:12

Fancy

Took a.

00:25:01:12 - 00:25:14:22

Fancy

While for us as teachers to talk about that fully that we were like, no, no, it's okay, don't worry. And like most of our customers are straight people and most of the employees are queer people.

00:25:15:02 - 00:25:15:18

Fancy

So it's like a bunch of.

00:25:15:18 - 00:25:19:07

Fancy

Queer people assuring the straight people that what we're doing is not sex. But then how.

00:25:19:07 - 00:25:21:02

Fancy

Are you professional? Like.

00:25:21:04 - 00:25:44:10

Fancy

Right. Exactly. And it's like, oh, that's that's a lot. And so we sort of like transferred over to then like hand held dildos, which felt a little more abstracted. And people got a lot more comfortable about that. But yeah, it was hard to teach blowjob workshops when like I taught a blowjob workshop right after I had a breakup with an ex I loved very much, and I was crying and throwing up.

00:25:44:10 - 00:25:51:04

Fancy

And so I was like, oh my God, the idea that I'm going to put a dildo in my mouth, like I'm going to puke in front of all of these people, I'm gonna be.

00:25:51:04 - 00:25:52:03

Fancy

Like, two jobs are so.

00:25:52:03 - 00:25:55:04

Fancy

Easy and then like, throw up from grief and anxiety in front of, oh.

00:25:55:04 - 00:25:55:17

Luna

My God.

00:25:55:21 - 00:26:05:14

Fancy

So fortunately I like did some breathing techniques, but I had my coworker, you know, in the backstage area being like, if you throw up, you throw up, you know, try to like assure me that it was okay.

00:26:05:18 - 00:26:06:04

Fancy

Yeah.

00:26:06:04 - 00:26:11:14

Fancy

And one time we had an angry woman who ate nine bananas, like, out of rage.

00:26:11:16 - 00:26:13:18

Fancy

Like to destroy the bananas?

00:26:13:19 - 00:26:38:19

Fancy

Yes. I don't know what her whole vibe was that day, but she, like, came in with a bad attitude. She sat down, was not participating. Then she put the condom on the banana and started chewing it like with teeth so that we could see it. You know, like, I hate this banana, you know, and then pulling bananas off of nearby chairs and just eating them, it was a lot.

00:26:38:19 - 00:26:55:14

Fancy

And then she went to the bathroom, stole a box of tampons, took one of the display vibrators, and we give out feedback forms at the end of the workshop. And she was like, have any of you lesbians ever actually had sex with a man? You should try it.

00:26:55:16 - 00:26:56:05

Fancy

She was really.

00:26:56:05 - 00:26:59:03

Fancy

Having a day. I kept that evaluation form. I was like.

00:26:59:03 - 00:27:01:15

Fancy

This is seriously art.

00:27:01:17 - 00:27:21:06

Luna

Almost like Uncon sensual performance art that she was like, look at me, look at me do this thing. I mean, that's it sounds like you had a lot of much more difficult experiences than I have ever had in five years of talking about my own sex life publicly, or even in the various forms of sex work that I've been exploring over the past three years.

00:27:21:08 - 00:27:22:06

Fancy

How did you.

00:27:22:06 - 00:27:33:21

Luna

Take care of yourself? It sounds like you had supportive coworkers, but like, what did you do to sort of like regenerator do whatever you needed to do after a lot of the very fucking assholes you dealt with.

00:27:33:23 - 00:27:56:07

Fancy

That was really hard retail work in general. It puts you in the path of a lot of people going through a lot of stuff, and there's not a ton of protection. And because you were in the service industry, you are not seen as powerful or treated in a way that is like acknowledging of your humanity. So, yeah, my coworkers really were the saving grace.

00:27:56:07 - 00:28:07:23

Fancy

We kept each other safe. We would find non carceral solutions like not calling the police, but locking the store and ordering people out sometimes, like dragging people out physically. If that needed to happen.

00:28:08:00 - 00:28:09:00

Fancy

Damn.

00:28:09:02 - 00:28:15:09

Fancy

New York City, Lower East Side. But then I also was in therapy. Still am great. I highly recommend.

00:28:15:09 - 00:28:16:06

Luna

Always me to.

00:28:16:06 - 00:28:18:07

Fancy

Yes, you know.

00:28:18:09 - 00:28:38:19

Fancy

And it was part time. So I was also filling my days with other things. I knew I couldn't take on a full time schedule of just working on the self-care and teaching workshops that that was going to grind me down. So yeah, performing really did end up becoming like much more of a job around that time because I needed something where I had more autonomy and more of a sense of personal power.

00:28:39:00 - 00:28:39:19

Fancy

Yeah.

00:28:39:21 - 00:28:54:03

Luna

On the note of performing, it was very surprising to me when I started sharing unclothed pictures of myself publicly that when I had, you know, this is my hair grown back one year in two months. I had a shaved head for six years. And so at the beginning, for me, it was like.

00:28:54:05 - 00:28:54:23

Fancy

What is this.

00:28:55:04 - 00:29:23:14

Luna

Container? Do I have a relationship with it if I don't have hair? Because that's what it was, what I got complimented for, like, am I? Am I sexy to me? What does it mean? And I was shocked. Two months, years in discover that many people out there do equate simple nudity with sex and me being naked with their permission to have sex with me in any way, shape or form they want, regardless of where they are.

00:29:23:16 - 00:29:37:05

Luna

I would love to hear your understanding and your experience specifically around like people's expectations about sex as it relates to burlesque and performance, where people are unclothed themselves.

00:29:37:07 - 00:29:54:11

Fancy

So I've been solicited a number of times at shows, like with an expectation that I am performing as a way to sort of like demonstrate what the goods are that are available. So like I will have people like trying to, you know, like to hire me as a full service worker or something like that. After the show, I.

00:29:54:11 - 00:29:57:22

Luna

Hope they at least offered good budgets.

00:29:58:00 - 00:29:58:16

Fancy

I think most of.

00:29:58:16 - 00:29:59:11

Fancy

Them could not afford me.

00:29:59:15 - 00:30:00:19

Fancy

But the that.

00:30:00:19 - 00:30:18:02

Fancy

In and of itself is not like I don't think that's wrong per se. And that that had been a lot of the like if we were in the 40s or 50s, a lot of the burlesque performers at the time would use their stage performance in the same way that like a stripper at a club is like doing a stage performance to sell a private dance.

00:30:18:07 - 00:30:47:06

Fancy

So I don't hate that. I do think the idea that if you are in any way sexually liberated, if you are sexually expressive, if you are like interested in your own body, or if you are interested in displaying your body in certain ways, that that is open season on you or like that people can then just like project their desires or, you know, be gross or intrusive or that they have permission to access other parts of you.

00:30:47:11 - 00:31:07:12

Fancy

I find that to be really repugnant. It feels like this is one of those things that I write about in the book that, like depending on my like sleep levels and hydration and like where my compassion was at, I could sometimes understand that. It's like we really don't have like media literacy almost around that kind of stuff. So it's like people are really doing the best with what they have and what they have is bullshit.

00:31:07:15 - 00:31:18:12

Fancy

Yeah. So I have compassion for that. But then when it is something that threatens my safety or that's like a boundary pushing thing on a bad day or something like that, I will just sort of shut down and do like a hard correction for sure.

00:31:18:12 - 00:31:38:10

Luna

For sure. Well, and I think that's such a good point, because we live in a culture that seems to thrive in lack of clarity, like what I've learned from interviewing hundreds of people about their sex lives, is that like my desire for clarity doesn't match most people's like I'm like, but what do you mean? Those words are unclear to me.

00:31:38:10 - 00:31:53:05

Luna

And so I would like you to define this one and this one and this one. And I've only just like in the last year and a half, like through sex work, through being like, why am I not very good at selling this stuff when clearly so many people think I'm sexy? There's some sort of like nuance there, right?

00:31:53:05 - 00:32:19:00

Luna

And so it's like, yes, there could be the invitation by for being naked, but also like there are no actual norms. And we also do not have the conversational tools. Which brings me to my next question for you. And we can circle back to burlesque as needed. But you are good at reading people's kinks. You are good at cold reading people's kinks on the fly, and I imagine we're going to hear a little bit about phone sex.

00:32:19:00 - 00:32:30:13

Luna

But also like, when did you realize this? How the fuck do you do it? If people have like, maybe, I don't know, neurodivergent brains that need a lot of literal stuff, do you have any advice for them?

00:32:30:15 - 00:32:31:10

Fancy

Oh well.

00:32:31:10 - 00:32:58:03

Fancy

So okay, so I'm going to start this off with like maybe the least sexy fact about me, which is that the most impactful thing I did in college was take improv class, the skills that come from improv class, around listening around watching for cues, around co-creating things on the fly, making agreements, giving gifts to asking good questions, adding information that all of that was something that I practiced for.

00:32:58:07 - 00:33:24:11

Fancy

I mean, we were very hardcore, the improv troupe I was in. So we would practice for like three times a week, like 2 or 3 hours at a time. And that was like a lot of intense team make believe. And so that skill helped me a lot when I was in retail, trying to cold read and mind read with customers who didn't have language around desire, who didn't have language around what toys they were looking for, who weren't sure what the fit was.

00:33:24:11 - 00:33:33:03

Fancy

And so I ended up doing a lot of what I think of as like being a sexy optometrist, that it's like, okay, do you mean more like a or more like likely.

00:33:33:05 - 00:33:34:19

Fancy

You know, like, okay, so.

00:33:34:19 - 00:33:47:05

Fancy

Does this librarian look like what you're looking for? Does this one, it's like, okay, so you don't want a vibrator. Okay. So what you may want is a dildo instead. So here are some of our dildos. Is there one that you feel drawn to? You. Let's like pick it up and squeeze it. It's like, oh I feel too squishy.

00:33:47:05 - 00:34:03:07

Fancy

Okay. So you may want a firmer, you know, just sort of like feeling my way through that. It's not like I can't into it. I can't mine read for people, but I can sort of clear the pathway and use language to translate their experience. And it's like, okay, I've seen that you're looking at this. I know that you haven't.

00:34:03:09 - 00:34:23:13

Fancy

Like as we've been talking, you've still been sort of like holding this toy. Like, is there something that you feel particularly drawn to, you know, just sort of having those questions that help steer people towards what they might need. And then when I got on the phone, it was sort of like the varsity level of that, because I was talking to people that I couldn't see.

00:34:23:15 - 00:34:30:10

Fancy

The only thing we have are the words that we're using with each other, but then finding people who still don't have language for it.

00:34:30:12 - 00:34:32:14

Fancy

Yes. Oh, I thought that.

00:34:32:14 - 00:34:42:04

Luna

Sex work was going to be like, fun. I can show up and do the thing and I'll find people to play with because I'm so good at playing. I just need a clear frame. And the world is not full of clear frames, and sex work.

00:34:42:04 - 00:34:48:00

Fancy

Is not full of clear frames. It's the opposite. It's the opposite, right?

00:34:48:00 - 00:34:57:18

Fancy

And I remember there being this like phone call I had where a guy was like, oh, you know, my dick is six inches. Do you think that's big or small?

00:34:57:20 - 00:35:00:06

Fancy

So what?

00:35:00:07 - 00:35:05:00

Fancy

I think it is slightly above the statistical average, but that's not what somebody wants to hear.

00:35:05:02 - 00:35:06:23

Fancy

But it's like, am I supposed to be like, you.

00:35:06:23 - 00:35:16:04

Fancy

Have the biggest fucking dick ever? That's going to strip me out and fill me up? Or am I like, that's a tiny little pencil dick. And I'm like, it's worthless. And I was like, I don't know.

00:35:16:09 - 00:35:19:01

Fancy

Yeah. So I remember that was like.

00:35:19:03 - 00:35:21:22

Fancy

I was at a crossroads. I just like made a 5050 guess. At that.

00:35:21:22 - 00:35:23:07

Fancy

Point.

00:35:23:09 - 00:35:33:15

Fancy

I tried to look at his like username to see if there was like a clue or something like that. And then at the end of the day, I was like, it's just sounds like a small penis guy. I don't know, there was something in his voice. I was like, this is a lowercase.

00:35:33:15 - 00:35:36:18

Fancy

Voice, like, I'm gonna.

00:35:36:20 - 00:35:51:10

Luna

Damn genius. I love this series of answers to because it does give me, I tell myself, a lot of unhelpful stories about basically, like I'm hopeless and I know I've read the books and I'm like, I'm supposed to catch up to other people socially when I'm around 50. So I've got a decade and a half plus to go.

00:35:51:10 - 00:36:16:06

Luna

But like hearing that, there are concrete ways to check in. And what I'm also noticing in these stories is that there is a mixture of compassion with like allowing privacy for these people, whereas sometimes I can be like, but what do you mean? You know, like I'll get to direct or so it's sort of like allowing them. I'm learning about like privacy and secrecy spaces, but shared secrecy, and I'm trying to dance in that.

00:36:16:06 - 00:36:19:13

Luna

And so that's what I hear coming through in your stories and discoveries of people.

00:36:19:15 - 00:36:43:04

Fancy

Absolutely. Thank you. I've never heard that specifically articulated, but that's right. And that was actually something that we received specific training on in the retail space, because it's like, for example, we had strap on harnesses, some of which had one ring. So like just for a dildo. And so that had two rings with the understanding that like one opening would be for a dildo and one opening would be for a flush dick.

00:36:43:04 - 00:37:08:02

Fancy

So like if somebody wanted to do deep, but so a couple would come in and we couldn't read their genders and we weren't going to assign who was doing what or like what body parts somebody had. And so we were really keeping it focused on the product rather than these people. So I would never ask, oh, which one of you is going to be wearing the strap that it was more like for people who are looking for like DP, that they could, you know, put a dick through, like, these are our models.

00:37:08:02 - 00:37:21:13

Fancy

And for people who are looking for sort of a single dick experience like here, you know, and to just let them say only that much and not have to give more of their life or of their biography than is necessary.

00:37:21:15 - 00:37:44:07

Luna

Yeah. It's so beautiful. And just as a person who has accidentally exploded many, many, many, many, many potential partners who clearly wanted to have sex with me until I attempted to get clear, like I'm like, oh, I see, I'm learning. Okay. And on that note, I would love to hear about robot role play, how you discovered it. I identify kind of as a human robot.

00:37:44:07 - 00:38:03:12

Luna

Like, I'm like, I'm just a sex robot. You just have to program me and I'll be perfect, I promise. Like, you know, because I'm a I'm a service submissive. I work in top space a lot because I'm that sub and that service oriented. And I am so curious about what robot role play means to you, what you love about it, maybe what you haven't explored, I don't know, tell me.

00:38:03:12 - 00:38:05:20

Luna

I don't know what I don't know, so you tell us.

00:38:05:22 - 00:38:25:04

Fancy

So when I started doing fun sex work, my deepest desire was to find myself embedded with a niche fetish community because I was like, I want something interesting. Like, I've been around the block. I would like to learn something about a fetish that I don't know very much about. I'd like to have consistent clients. I'm willing to go really deep.

00:38:25:04 - 00:38:46:11

Fancy

I'd like to have more sort of emotional investment, more repeat customers, longer calls, more emotional labor, whatever, rather than sort of shorter sort of passing fancy calls. And so my first week, I got a message from a member of the robot fetish community who, like, sent me some cash upfront and was like, hey, you seem like I like the way you write it.

00:38:46:11 - 00:38:51:23

Fancy

I like the way you present yourself like you seem creative. Would you be willing to do a robot role play with me?

00:38:52:01 - 00:38:52:23

Fancy

Fuck yeah.

00:38:52:23 - 00:38:55:16

Fancy

Like tell me, do I pass the Turing test? Like, what's that?

00:38:55:16 - 00:38:59:00

Fancy

Like you're a robot. I was so excited.

00:38:59:00 - 00:39:20:08

Fancy

About that because I was like, I've never we in these quarters before. And so he was so lovely and kind like fetishists, like talking about their fetish. A lot of people, not everybody. And so he was really willing to share with me, like resources and show me robot porn that he liked. And I was like reading their message boards and things like that and taking notes.

00:39:20:08 - 00:39:23:03

Fancy

And I had a little Pinterest like I wanted. I was like, I'm.

00:39:23:03 - 00:39:23:17

Fancy

Going.

00:39:23:19 - 00:39:24:19

Fancy

Deep on this.

00:39:24:21 - 00:39:26:11

Fancy

But of course.

00:39:26:13 - 00:39:31:16

Fancy

Just robots, like robots, are not a monolith. And so there would.

00:39:31:16 - 00:39:32:18

Fancy

Be the.

00:39:32:18 - 00:39:52:23

Fancy

Robot fetishists who wanted a robot that was malfunctioning, or the robot fetishist who wanted a robot that was really subservient, like a sort of 1950s housewife robot, or people who wanted like a really strong robot that could, like, crush them at a moment's notice, or robots that could be disassembled or robots that were begging to be made human.

00:39:53:04 - 00:40:12:14

Fancy

In some cases, I think, like particularly with people who were neurodiverse having robot fetishes, that didn't even seem to me to be related at all, like people who just wanted me to sort of read from a technical manual or like run diagnostics on my software, and for that to be like a really erotic experience for them. And that was wonderful.

00:40:12:16 - 00:40:14:18

Fancy

I love that. Wow.

00:40:14:19 - 00:40:20:17

Luna

Has it all been virtual or have you ever, like, done an in-person robot exploration?

00:40:20:19 - 00:40:44:00

Fancy

It's all been virtual and doing it virtually has permitted me to sort of use my film school skills to do like audio and some video editing so that people are really getting a lot more of what they want. Like, I could do some things with like costuming or whatever, but that being able to do digital manipulation, you know, gets closer to the sort of real thing that people are.

00:40:44:02 - 00:40:44:17

Fancy

Right?

00:40:44:18 - 00:41:05:17

Luna

Right. Because even a fantasy roleplay scenario, it's like they're going to feel your flesh and beating heart, but like, oh, that's so hot. Robot play is on my bucket list. But I haven't gone that like I have too long of a bucket list. Even without all the subtypes I have done some like statue fucking stuff because I like, you know, bring me to life or like doll stuff is what I'm really interested in.

00:41:05:19 - 00:41:16:17

Luna

But I love, I love that. What about none and religious play do you find interesting and is it in kind of the same realm, or is that something you might bring into like real life with costumes?

00:41:16:19 - 00:41:17:08

Fancy

Yeah.

00:41:17:10 - 00:41:46:13

Fancy

We're like veering closer into my sort of real world interests and practices. I think I have grown up in a religious minority under a sort of like Christian, hetero patriarchal hegemony. I think it's fun to reappropriate and fuck with iconography, imagery like things that are not mine, that belong to a dominant people, that it's sort of like a reverse cultural appropriation, almost.

00:41:46:15 - 00:41:47:12

Fancy

Like.

00:41:47:13 - 00:41:55:10

Fancy

It's like, here I am. I'm like, what are like, you shoved all of these images down my throat. So now I'm going to show these images. So my friend.

00:41:55:12 - 00:42:00:12

Fancy

Yeah, you said exactly. And like, yeah playing with.

00:42:00:12 - 00:42:10:00

Fancy

Shame, playing with secrets, playing with like punishment and forgiveness and yeah, like the whole thing is so fucking kinky. Like forcing other people to, like, eat and drink things and.

00:42:10:01 - 00:42:12:07

Luna

Get on their knees. Yeah.

00:42:12:09 - 00:42:14:16

Fancy

Come on. So, like, one of my.

00:42:14:16 - 00:42:18:23

Fancy

Sort of pandemic obsessions was to look at any sort of foreclosures, like if there.

00:42:18:23 - 00:42:19:16

Fancy

Were.

00:42:19:18 - 00:42:24:19

Fancy

Churches that were liquidating because I was like, I would really like to get a confession booth.

00:42:24:21 - 00:42:27:09

Fancy

I'm just like, put that in my apartment, dude.

00:42:27:12 - 00:42:46:04

Luna

I have been noodling on what does a traveling sex stories confessional that I can take to different sex shops and easily set up look like because that's, you know, and this podcast has never been about confessions. It's been about shame, smashing. But I'm like, oh, but people like it better if it's confessions. Okay. So like how how could that be fun?

00:42:46:09 - 00:42:53:09

Luna

And how can it make them feel cozy and safe and private and, you know, able to share and I fold. Oh my gosh, you would have one in your house.

00:42:53:13 - 00:42:58:02

Fancy

I mean, I would like to I don't have a ton of real estate. I have a guest room. So I was like.

00:42:58:04 - 00:43:00:09

Fancy

We just put that out. Yeah. At some.

00:43:00:09 - 00:43:01:03

Luna

Point. Oh that's.

00:43:01:03 - 00:43:03:00

Fancy

Amazing.

00:43:03:02 - 00:43:06:15

Luna

Your family comes to visit. You're like, oh, it's just this is part of an.

00:43:06:15 - 00:43:13:19

Fancy

Actor, you know, rehearsal space for zoom calls. Yeah. My tiny little room that has crosses on it, but.

00:43:13:19 - 00:43:14:17

Fancy

You don't have to worry about it.

00:43:14:17 - 00:43:17:11

Fancy

Yeah, I kind of love that.

00:43:17:13 - 00:43:37:15

Luna

Would you want to, like, dress up as a nun, or do you like gender bending? Like, would you. I mean, you're a burlesque performer, so, like, maybe this is a good segue to, like, you've done just like a fucking array of things. What about religious play in your own sex life would be most juicy to you if it included a costume and a willing partner to, like, improv, play and fuck with.

00:43:37:17 - 00:43:43:12

Fancy

With my. I was talking to my ex about like doing nun and like altar boy kind of stuff.

00:43:43:14 - 00:43:44:23

Fancy

Oh, and I, we.

00:43:44:23 - 00:44:02:00

Fancy

Didn't get to do it like, damn it. But it's still on my bucket list. But I was like, I don't want like, I love latex nuns, I love sexy nuns. But I was like, I don't want that. I want sort of like traditional. Like I want the itchy sort of like wool, whatever their garment is made out of.

00:44:02:00 - 00:44:18:11

Fancy

Like, I want the full habit because I think there's something that's so dirty about the idea of like, yeah, a nun's habit that you sort of lift up and there's nothing underneath to me that did something that like a sort of specifically like fetishized costume would not do, I don't know, I'm a nitpicker.

00:44:18:13 - 00:44:39:17

Luna

I fucking love that. No, I think that's also why you are such a beautiful, specific artist, right? Like the amount of thought and storytelling that seems to go into every piece of thing that you do is like truly next level. And like, I can imagine there'd be like difficult parts if you live in that kind of brain. I mean, I have my own version of it, but, you know, the artistry that comes out the other side is very beautiful.

00:44:39:19 - 00:44:55:18

Luna

I would love to hear about power play and how it's yummy for you at this moment in your life. If people go read your book, they can read a little bit about your arc with it, but I would love to hear, like, why do you love cocks? How do you love subs? What's juicy about power play?

00:44:55:20 - 00:44:57:23

Fancy

Ooh, I think there's a real.

00:44:57:23 - 00:45:29:14

Fancy

Negotiation with my relationship to the patriarchy that comes out in the sex that I have. We live in a culture that presumes male dominance. I mean, the first of all, that presumes heterosexuality. But that also presumes male dominance and female submission. And for those to be like the options, the binary. And I accepted that, and I assumed that I was submissive when I was younger and that there was something really satisfying about being able to accommodate somebody else, like give somebody else pleasure through becoming what it was that they wanted me to be.

00:45:29:16 - 00:45:42:08

Fancy

And that's something that I can also do as a dominant, like being a service top or something like that. But for me, what I found most compelling was like genuine suffering and psychological distress.

00:45:42:10 - 00:45:47:03

Luna

Which also goes with nuns, if you know about Mother Teresa. So. And the suffering.

00:45:47:03 - 00:45:51:19

Fancy

Oh, interesting. Oh, say more. You know, banking and.

00:45:51:21 - 00:45:55:09

Fancy

Flogging and all of that kind of stuff like impact play or pain play.

00:45:55:11 - 00:45:56:20

Fancy

Was like, okay, I.

00:45:56:20 - 00:46:14:00

Fancy

Find that like to be like decently interesting and reasonably hot. But for me, the thing that is the most compelling is like, if I can really get in a person's head and like, fuck their shit up once again, consensually, but in a way that sucks, like in a way that somebody like, they don't enjoy it. They have to enjoy their lack of enjoyment.

00:46:14:04 - 00:46:49:14

Fancy

And so I think that's sort of like why cuts come in to my world so frequently, because what's being played with is a lot of denial that there's a lot that's dangled in front of them that they don't get to have or they don't get to experience. And that that denial is like what gets eroticized, as well as the sort of imbalance of power, like the idea of their dominant being able to do whatever and fuck whomever and have this like freedom of movement and then to sort of be stuck, like happily stuck, like understanding that their role in their position in life is to be subordinate, that there's something about that.

00:46:49:14 - 00:47:05:21

Fancy

It's really enlivening living in a body that is disempowered and like discriminated against from a gender standpoint, like to be able to put that on and also to give the other person relief, like to give a man relief about his position in the patriarchy. Like, sure, why not? If that's like a side effect, then enjoy it.

00:47:05:21 - 00:47:07:18

Fancy

You know? Wow.

00:47:07:20 - 00:47:23:00

Luna

Okay, there's so much here that I like. Okay, we're not going to get lost in all of the weeds, but in your physical body, do you ever feel at odds with your own desire to fuck with cocks? I mean, you don't fuck them, right?

00:47:23:02 - 00:47:38:17

Fancy

I do not fuck them. Yes, it depends. When I have, like, emotional closeness and like, fond feelings and a crush on the person who has the cock, there is this sort of like self-denial that ends up happening. Then I'm like, yeah, you don't get to fuck me. And I'm like.

00:47:38:20 - 00:47:42:21

Fancy

I don't get to fuck you. You know what I mean? Like, I would, I would really like that. I think it would be nice.

00:47:42:21 - 00:48:06:21

Fancy

And there are some relationships where that's also possible, like where we can sort of have sex outside of the role, but generally speaking, I am quite a patient person, and I'm willing to have and I have had long term sexual relationships with people where there hasn't been any penetrative sex. There's a lot that counts, and that is interesting and sexy and juicy about my relationship with them that isn't necessarily geared toward that.

00:48:06:23 - 00:48:14:14

Luna

Are there physical sensations outside of penetrative sex or is it all mental in those cases? Or I imagine a mixture, but like.

00:48:14:16 - 00:48:34:02

Fancy

Yeah, there's a mixture. Like I've dated people where they have never touched my genitals, where like the only play is like with toys or like my hands or something like that, but they don't have permission or privileges to do even the sort of like barest of sexual contact with me.

00:48:34:04 - 00:48:36:07

Fancy

It's hot, right? Like it's enjoyable and it's.

00:48:36:07 - 00:48:43:19

Fancy

Like, if I ever gave them permission, like, this is again, me being like, addicted to details. I'm like, if I ever crossed that, then it wouldn't have the same charge or power.

00:48:43:19 - 00:48:44:23

Luna

It's a different dynamic.

00:48:44:23 - 00:48:54:18

Fancy

It's a different dynamic. Exactly. So there's there's a lot of pleasure and a lot of physical pleasure in those relationships. It just looks a little bit different. Yeah.

00:48:54:20 - 00:49:13:14

Luna

Are there other sensations or things that you love that we haven't talked about either in the course of like romantic, fucking partnered fucking, or just like even burlesque? Like, I imagine the physical sensations of burlesque could be a whole range of things. But like physically, what does your body enjoy the most?

00:49:13:16 - 00:49:28:15

Fancy

So I have burlesque acts that include kinks and physical sensations that people associate with, sort of like in the bedroom, behind closed doors kind of sex. Like I have an act where I'm fully nude and I pour a bunch of candle wax on myself.

00:49:28:17 - 00:49:32:23

Luna

Body safe candle wax. Right. So you don't get burned, like from the sex shop. Candle wax.

00:49:33:01 - 00:49:48:12

Fancy

Not from the sex shop, but body safe. So the saint candles. Here's that religious stuff again. Those, like, same candles are cheaper wax. It's like mixed with mineral oil so that it melts at a lower temperature. So it's not something that I would like definitely recommend to everybody. It's something I've tested out on my body.

00:49:48:17 - 00:49:51:06

Luna

It's intense. It's so intense.

00:49:51:07 - 00:50:08:21

Fancy

Yeah, it hurts and that's the point. And like I use a lot of different colored ones as opposed to just like the white ones because I wanted to show up on stage. Those have different melting points and those get hotter because of the dyes. It's fine for me. It may not be fine for somebody else. I don't play with a lot of wax plant homes because I'm like, oh my God, I'm going to get that on my sheets too.

00:50:08:21 - 00:50:09:13

Fancy

I can't, I.

00:50:09:13 - 00:50:12:02

Fancy

Have it's horrible with a massage.

00:50:12:04 - 00:50:28:17

Fancy

You're like, you're with the iron and the wax paper or whatever the fuck they tell you to do. So annoying. So I have that act where I experience the sensation of doing like a ton of actual play with myself. I have acts where I like, tie myself up in rope, and those are physical sensations that I really enjoy and like I'm open to in the bedroom.

00:50:28:17 - 00:50:46:17

Fancy

Like, I've definitely dated a dated a rope person for some time and that was great. I really like the sensation of biting in this sort of bitey spinny kind of matrix. I really like that kind of stuff. I'm not that interested in, like hitting, although being slapped in the face and slapping someone in the face. It's like a strong cup of coffee in the morning.

00:50:46:19 - 00:50:48:13

Fancy

I love it. Okay, I think you're.

00:50:48:13 - 00:50:57:16

Luna

The first person who's like, not so much impact, but yes, face slapping because I'm I'm used to all that. People are like, not the face though. And I'm like, oh, okay, okay. You know, if they know how to do it safely. But I love.

00:50:57:16 - 00:51:00:07

Fancy

That. But yeah, that there's.

00:51:00:07 - 00:51:04:01

Fancy

Something it's taboo. Like thinking to me feels like.

00:51:04:03 - 00:51:07:07

Fancy

You know, like, oh, I've been snagged so bad. I'm so naughty. Whatever.

00:51:07:13 - 00:51:09:09

Fancy

But you really shouldn't hit me in the face.

00:51:09:11 - 00:51:10:15

Fancy

00:51:10:17 - 00:51:20:01

Luna

I'm like, yes to all of it. Also, I'm sitting on a very bruised ass right now because I have a partner that loves to overwhelm me with speak like I'm a high sensation seeker.

00:51:20:03 - 00:51:20:05

Fancy

A.

00:51:20:05 - 00:51:34:07

Luna

Little bit spectrum me like I can take a lot and I love it. Especially like face slapping at the right moment before an orgasm, or if I'm edging and like, you know, avoiding the or get. Don't you dare, you know, like, or like good girl.

00:51:34:09 - 00:51:36:09

Fancy

I love all of it. Are you a.

00:51:36:09 - 00:51:38:07

Luna

Giver of those types of sensations at.

00:51:38:07 - 00:51:39:20

Fancy

All or. Yeah, I love.

00:51:39:20 - 00:51:56:06

Fancy

To give like down to receive. Yeah. I really like seeing what it does to other people. And I do think there's like a lot of inquiry to be done around the idea of stimming and like certain kinds of Bdsm and impact play as like forms of stimming. And so I don't tend to have that same sort of response.

00:51:56:08 - 00:51:59:19

Fancy

I feel like, unfortunately, pretty neurotypical. So I'm kind of like.

00:51:59:21 - 00:52:02:18

Luna

It's all a blessing and a curse, right? We can learn from each other.

00:52:02:20 - 00:52:09:08

Fancy

I'm like, well, I'm like, over there. I need best friends who will explain the world to me. And co-creators.

00:52:09:10 - 00:52:21:11

Luna

Well, okay. Are there other enjoyments, fantasies, fetishes, kinks that feel like just relevant to even maybe list here in kind of a lightning round fashion and or things you want to explore going forward?

00:52:21:13 - 00:52:37:19

Fancy

I want to be at the buffet. I don't consider myself to be like a fetishist in the sense that I have like specific things that need to be there in order for me to enjoy myself. Like there's a lot of different sex that I will enjoy and take pleasure from. I like to do other people's fetishes with them.

00:52:37:19 - 00:53:00:16

Luna

Yeah, that's how I say you sound like I relate to the idea of if I had a fetish, it's curiosity or around sex and I love. I have such strong, responsive desire that, like each person, when I learn about them and you seem like this to me, so this is why I'm talking about myself. But like, they become my muse of the moment, and then it becomes like, that's where I feel like I can do improv.

00:53:00:16 - 00:53:17:01

Luna

Like I, you know, my main artistry used to be headshot photography, and I got really, really good at, like understanding that person's goals, their needs, and then just writing them storylines that would, you know, guide them through the entire shoot and so, like the sex version of that is my personal favorite. And so, like, I totally get what you're saying.

00:53:17:01 - 00:53:17:11

Fancy

Absolutely.

00:53:17:16 - 00:53:19:21

Luna

Or at least I get my version of it.

00:53:19:23 - 00:53:20:21

Fancy

Look surreal.

00:53:20:21 - 00:53:45:13

Fancy

Yes, the responsive desire is like a huge thing that it's like, I want to see people tap into that place that feels so like beyond language, like to have people in that sense of like full embodied pleasure. And so whatever it is that like, gets us there is kind of like cool and interesting to me. And unfortunately, like, I've ended up dating a lot of people who are vanilla.

00:53:45:15 - 00:53:48:10

Fancy

Which is wild thing. I'm like, I'm like.

00:53:48:10 - 00:53:50:11

Fancy

What are you into? And they're like.

00:53:50:13 - 00:53:52:06

Fancy

You know, big band convergence.

00:53:52:06 - 00:53:52:23

Fancy

And I'm like, yeah.

00:53:52:23 - 00:53:59:04

Fancy

I like it. Okay. Really interesting. So like wasted this one song.

00:53:59:06 - 00:54:19:23

Luna

Yeah. No, I, I really relate to that. I really relate to that. This might be a nonstarter question, but the way that you might experience that little spark from someone's fetish, is there a parallel between like, the way you design burlesque shows for yourself? Like, it sounds like most of your act inspiration comes from some part of you?

00:54:19:23 - 00:54:24:16

Luna

Is it is it related to your sexual self? Is there a like connection there?

00:54:24:18 - 00:54:37:01

Fancy

I don't find those two things to be particularly related in my life that, like my private expression of sexuality, is so different from a public performance of sexuality. I mean, they come from the same brain, right? So there's going to be some overlap there going to be some common themes.

00:54:37:01 - 00:54:41:02

Luna

Well, they'll inform each other, but it's a different experience is what it sounds like.

00:54:41:04 - 00:54:58:12

Fancy

Exactly. And so it's usually much more of my narrative brain that's on when I'm creating acts. It's like much more of a writing process. So it's more like, where do I want to take people? What do I want them to understand? Maybe it's sort of like if I'm topping writing a scene with somebody that it's like, I want to make you feel like this.

00:54:58:14 - 00:55:07:10

Fancy

So what are the beats that we go through in order to sort of end at that moment where you truly feel the way that I have intended and designed for you to feel?

00:55:07:12 - 00:55:17:19

Luna

Yeah. So it's like the creative turn on and that's distinct from your own physical, sexual, emotional, mental turn on as a sexy creature.

00:55:17:21 - 00:55:22:05

Fancy

Yeah. Which I guess is like really outing me as like a control person, but like.

00:55:22:06 - 00:55:38:03

Luna

We all are to some degree, though, like, what I've learned is like, anytime someone's like, oh no, I'm not. It's just because they think they're already in control. And then when shit hits the fan, they're like, oh my God, I'm not. And I'm like, we never were, we never were. We just tell ourselves stories to make us feel like we are sometimes absolutely damn.

00:55:38:08 - 00:55:47:17

Luna

Okay. What would you say if you had to just put it in a couple of sentences or paragraphs? Skills that make you a great lover.

00:55:47:19 - 00:55:59:22

Fancy

I am creative, I am not shy, I am attentive, I listen well and I speak well. I want the things I want. I want to give other people the things that they want.

00:56:00:00 - 00:56:04:10

Luna

That's a fucking great answer.

00:56:04:12 - 00:56:13:04

Luna

What are your hopes for your sexual future going forward? Maybe both personally and or professionally?

00:56:13:06 - 00:56:14:00

Fancy

I hope to.

00:56:14:05 - 00:56:36:16

Fancy

Just keep having fun. I think that like we are not in a moment where like joy feels particularly abundant and sex and connection feels like an avenue for the experience of joy. And so that's my desire for myself. It's my desire for other people, like a continuation of exploration of who we are and how we have fun with each other.

00:56:36:18 - 00:56:38:04

Fancy

I fucking love it.

00:56:38:06 - 00:56:43:11

Luna

If you could wave a magic wand and teach everyone in the whole wide world something about sex, what would it be?

00:56:43:13 - 00:56:45:02

Fancy

You get to ask for what you want.

00:56:45:04 - 00:56:54:04

Luna

And if you could go back in time and give a younger you a piece of sex advice, understanding that we are perfect as is we came up perfect. What age or ages would you pick and what would you say?

00:56:54:06 - 00:56:55:03

Fancy

Oh my God.

00:56:55:05 - 00:57:08:04

Fancy

I would have sat myself down at the kitchen table the day after I lost my virginity. You know, whatever the the language is that we're using around that. After I had penetrative sex for the first time to be like, it really is just not always going to be like this.

00:57:08:06 - 00:57:11:15

Fancy

Line that was that I had that.

00:57:11:15 - 00:57:24:23

Fancy

Penetrated sex once and then that relationship ended. And so I only had sex once. I felt like the worst non virgin in the world. And I was like carrying that as my like albatross for some months. I was like, just hold on. Like the next time is going to be amazing.

00:57:24:23 - 00:57:31:03

Fancy

Like it's so much, it's a good one, okay. And if you had to be a.

00:57:31:03 - 00:57:41:19

Luna

Different kind of sex worker for two years, like in a world where all of us have to serve for at least two years by being a sex worker, something you haven't done yet. What other kind of sex worker would you be?

00:57:41:21 - 00:57:44:15

Fancy

Wow. Okay, so I.

00:57:44:17 - 00:57:44:21

Fancy

I.

00:57:44:21 - 00:58:05:14

Fancy

Would be interested in, like, signing up for a two year tour of service as a club stripper. Actually, my friends who are club strippers are like some of the most wonderful people in my life. Yeah, and it was an early aspiration of mine as a little girl. And theoretically, I could do it. But I'm not in a traditional body that like strip clubs, seek and search for.

00:58:05:16 - 00:58:07:19

Fancy

So I felt like sad that I.

00:58:07:19 - 00:58:09:17

Fancy

Wasn't able to be a club.

00:58:09:19 - 00:58:13:01

Fancy

So I would be interested in trying that out.

00:58:13:03 - 00:58:13:12

Fancy

I love.

00:58:13:12 - 00:58:34:02

Luna

That. Also, if everyone had to be some kind of sex worker for a couple of years, imagine the variety we would get in all the places. It would change everything. Okay, well we're not gonna live in that world, but okay. Lastly, you have an unlimited budget to build your perfect playroom, dungeon, castle, mansion, cruise ship, whatever you want.

00:58:34:04 - 00:58:36:02

Luna

What is it like?

00:58:36:04 - 00:58:38:13

Fancy

Okay, so I don't know if you've.

00:58:38:13 - 00:58:41:10

Fancy

Seen that Netflix show, like How to Build a Sex Room or.

00:58:41:10 - 00:58:42:13

Fancy

Whatever I have.

00:58:42:15 - 00:58:50:19

Luna

I actually have it and I so many people, because I started asking this question around the time it came out. So I need to on my bucket list. But yes, tell us, tell us.

00:58:50:21 - 00:58:57:09

Fancy

So like I think the show is great. I'm glad that it exists. I think they did a middling.

00:58:57:09 - 00:58:57:22

Fancy

Job.

00:58:57:23 - 00:59:02:05

Fancy

Of it, and I have a lot of esthetic bones to pick here.

00:59:02:07 - 00:59:06:06

Fancy

Oh. No. Okay. Wow. I'm an asshole. Here we go.

00:59:06:07 - 00:59:11:01

Luna

No, no, you have good taste and specificity and vision.

00:59:11:03 - 00:59:13:05

Fancy

Yes. Then I was like, you don't need.

00:59:13:05 - 00:59:37:15

Fancy

To be afraid of natural materials when you're building a sex room. I, I'm so annoyed by the presence of that extremely cheap, crushed like imitation red velvet. That doesn't mean sex to me. I'm like, oh, it's so annoying. I don't like that sort of cheap sort of party store purple. I'm not into that. A lot of sex furniture has like silver hardware, and I am much more of a gold girl.

00:59:37:15 - 00:59:40:01

Fancy

So I say like, okay, great. So I want old and bronze.

00:59:40:04 - 00:59:41:05

Fancy

Yeah. Golden bronze.

00:59:41:05 - 00:59:59:21

Fancy

Yes. And like wood and leather and drains in the floor and like, different sort of areas, different sort of regions, but not like, I don't know, I just, I felt like the whole thing, like I don't want a neon sign on the wall that says like, baby or whatever, like, I don't, I don't need that. I don't want that.

00:59:59:21 - 01:00:04:14