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CEO of Bloom Community, a sex-positive and kinky app for events, connections, and building community.

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00:06:11:21 - 00:06:36:05

Luna

And our guest today is helping people connect in ways that can be friendly, very friendly, or downright kinky. Our guest is the CEO of bloom Community, the app for sex positive and kinky people to discover events, make connections, and build community. She has over a decade of business experience in some of the biggest tech companies, including square, Lyft, Adobe, and a decade of experience building communities and events in the sex positive and non-monogamy spaces.

00:06:36:07 - 00:06:47:03

Luna

She claims that her biggest kinks are creating safe containers for sexual discovery and indulging in people's deepest fears and dreams. Luckily, these two work well together. Welcome, Noah. Ellen.

00:06:47:05 - 00:07:02:07

Noa

Hi. I feel like we could be best friends because I feel like both of us just want to get into people's, like, hearts, right? Like it doesn't matter the way, but it's like, share with me. Like your deepest, deepest desires and secrets.

00:07:02:11 - 00:07:17:19

Luna

Oh my gosh, that's the best. And that usually means we're gonna have a pretty good conversation. So could you please start us off by telling us if you had to rate yourself on a sexual shame, a meter from one being totally shameless to ten being so full of shame? Where would you say you fall right now and when?

00:07:17:19 - 00:07:19:21

Luna

If ever, does it fluctuate?

00:07:19:23 - 00:07:40:16

Noa

I feel I, I would probably say a four. And I think part of it right is like being honest with myself about what is shame, right? Like if I think about shame, I think about what makes me embarrassed that other people know. So there's things that I feel no shame about. Then I feel very transparent about sharing it with people.

00:07:40:16 - 00:08:05:20

Noa

But when it actually comes to things that I'm, I feel like embarrassed about and I don't want people to know, then I feel it very, very deeply. And I've actually been thinking about it today because I have yet to, like, announce to my professional network that I'm the CEO of bloom. So in like the community, parts of it like people know and we made like an official announcement and people really supported me and we got amazing reflections.

00:08:05:20 - 00:08:32:19

Noa

And I've been leading communities and creating safe spaces for a really long time. Yeah. But then my professional network, my business school friends or my friends from tech, they haven't really heard about it yet, and I have a lot of shame around them discovering this about me right. In some way. Yeah. And I think it's really interesting, right, that I have, you know, especially being like, as in you maybe you have thoughts on this, but being like a human that is like I'm as if like sexually bent.

00:08:32:19 - 00:08:52:12

Noa

And I talk to people all the time about sexuality and how they can live freely in the world. And anything you want you can ask for. But I'm very, very like safe and hiding behind, like living on a tiny island without my family around me, without my professional network seeing me. And I've been really thinking about it. Like how scared I am, right?

00:08:52:12 - 00:09:14:12

Noa

Am I coming out right? I know, like shame is right because I'm not. I don't make it about myself. But yeah, there this way that I have been normative passing. Right. Like I pass this normative person. I have a family. I have a husband. I'm like quite professional, like no one thinks that I'm a weirdo, right? And so I get all this privilege from people thinking that.

00:09:14:12 - 00:09:34:18

Noa

But then I'm like, actually not doing the work right to educate people that normally people are actually also freaks. And not only people who are freaks, also normative people. Today I've been thinking about a lot of these, have been writing this announcement on LinkedIn, meaning like, by the way, I'm a CEO of this company and it's my dream job.

00:09:34:20 - 00:09:57:12

Noa

And yet I've been waiting for months to tell you because I'm really scared by how the implications like how people will judge me or what people will say and how will that impact. But also I'm like, yes, this is the work, right? Like this is the work. Like I need to leverage my power and, you know, all the privilege they have in order to allow other people to actually, you know, express freely in the world.

00:09:57:14 - 00:10:21:07

Luna

Yeah, and I totally relate to that on so many levels. And I also have one opposite experience, too, because like, in some ways, I have exactly the same thing, because I have been like dabbling in sex work since I got so down the rabbit hole of like, research is how I kind of think of it. Anecdotal research I started doing like sex work related things, and that's the part where I still feel secretive.

00:10:21:07 - 00:10:40:21

Luna

But I always was like, I have a sex podcast, and that has I have almost the opposite experience of like, people just come to me and they tell me that they're so open. I bet your network, even though you're uncomfortable, they're probably going to actually receive a huge gift like of permission because I am just a permission giver because of how I exist in the world to people.

00:10:40:23 - 00:10:54:23

Luna

But I have the opposite. Where in my personal life, sometimes I'm like like on on pod, I'll be like my fantasy. This is my fantasy. That meant a little bit. And then just the other day, I was with a lover and I was like, I was having a fantasy about you went, oh my God, I feel squiggly. I don't even know if I want to tell you.

00:10:54:23 - 00:11:00:11

Luna

And I had and I was like, well, okay, so it's all directions. Yeah.

00:11:00:12 - 00:11:05:21

Noa

And I think it's really weird how, you know, how conservative the world still is, right? Like I out.

00:11:05:21 - 00:11:07:08

Luna

Loud in public.

00:11:07:08 - 00:11:20:16

Noa

Yeah. I mean loud. Right. And you know. Right. Like you're on Instagram and you're like, yeah, you know, you're an influencer and I'm sure that, you know, that there's things that you cannot write right then or that you cannot read. Regina. Yeah.

00:11:20:17 - 00:11:30:08

Luna

Or six the sex stories Instagram got taken down. I didn't figure it out. My artist one is still up, but it's too it's too much. It's too hard.

00:11:30:10 - 00:11:57:12

Noa

But that's what I mean, right? And I think part of what's really scary to me is with threads, right? Threads coming out now and thread is going to pretty much like replace Twitter, like, and then mirror is going to own all of the social conversations. And when the owns all the social conversations, they also own moderation. Right. And they decide what we can talk about and that will like reinforce that none of us talk about being sexual adults at all.

00:11:57:18 - 00:12:14:03

Noa

And where does this land us? Right? With like porn? And you know, being in alleyways and talking about stuff. So it's like just it's so sad to think about how conservative and, you know, normative, like social networks are making all of us seem externally.

00:12:14:05 - 00:12:27:02

Luna

Totally. But also, maybe you will be like the drop that creates the ripple that starts to shift some of the tech people, you know, like, who knows, who knows? We don't know. And that's these conversations are going to do all of that. Thank you for sharing that.

00:12:27:04 - 00:12:47:16

Noa

But yeah, I do think that platforms like Bloom or Lex or oh my god, yes. Or all these platform that proactively talk about sex and are distancing themselves from ad money that is connected to conservative corporations, like all of that will power to create more self-expression in the more free speech.

00:12:47:18 - 00:12:55:02

Luna

But yeah. Can you tell us what is your definition of sexy? Like what is sexy to you?

00:12:55:04 - 00:13:17:21

Noa

For me, is sexy is the ability to be in this like back and forth of power and play? I feel like for me, I find the edges of connection with people, right? So like, can I ask a question and how do you react to that? Or can you propose that we do this data? And then I add like a twist to it, like I think like the back and forth there.

00:13:17:23 - 00:13:23:10

Noa

I really for me, sexy is like the edge of the friction of where we go back and forth together.

00:13:23:12 - 00:13:38:04

Luna

Oh, I love that answer. I always say I'm like looking for our overlaps so that we can, like, make a tight container and then play the fuck out of it like, but I like I love how you said that. Damn. Okay. What do you think counts as sex?

00:13:38:06 - 00:13:58:04

Noa

Oh my God. You know, this is like the biggest thing when a roomie who is my husband and I, when we opened our relationship, there was like, all of this hiding behind definitions, right? It's like, so hard to come and say, like, I, like, kissed someone or I touched someone's boobs, or I did this. So we would say like, oh, I made out.

00:13:58:04 - 00:14:14:17

Noa

We made it. I went to this party and we made out and I'd be like, but what is made out of me? Like, what is the edges of me? That right off was the edges of things. And how can we stop hiding behind definitions and actually talk about like, the actual things? So I don't know where sex starts and ends.

00:14:14:17 - 00:14:38:10

Noa

Like, what if you meet someone on a chat room and you share your deepest secrets with them, like that's going to be considered infidelity or sex, right? And you could all at the same time go to like a sex party and, and actually have penetration with someone in that can be. So I think the edges of what I consider like sex is where you share energy or have an experience where your sexual energy intensifies.

00:14:38:10 - 00:14:48:18

Noa

Right. And so it could be even like eye gazing and breathing. But if you're trying to get to orgasm or you're trying to get the other person to orgasm, I think that is considered sex.

00:14:49:00 - 00:14:58:21

Luna

I love that frame of like consciously choosing to escalate, turn on together. Oh, do you think it has to be together? Or can one person be having sex and the other one's not? What do you think?

00:14:58:23 - 00:15:00:13

Noa

Not totally right?

00:15:00:18 - 00:15:03:18

Luna

Probably, I don't know. There's probably a way.

00:15:03:20 - 00:15:28:14

Noa

That when people feel creepy, right? Like when you're when someone's like, oh, I just want to give you a massage and then you're like, yeah, doesn't feel really nice, right? Is it because you are maybe not thinking about as sexual interaction? And they are. Right. So sometimes that is part of I think when we feel uncomfortable with people nonconsensual, when they actually have a different level of sexual interaction, then.

00:15:28:16 - 00:15:46:22

Luna

That's one of my personal great concerns, because I'm always afraid that I will have missed a social signal, and I am always higher desire. So like I've never been creeped out and like, yeah, touch me. And I'm very good at enforcing boundaries, but it's why it's so hard for me, especially to hit on femmes because I'm like, do you?

00:15:47:00 - 00:15:58:00

Luna

You know, because I really have to check in a lot. And that annoys the fuck out of some people. When you were growing up, did you ever get sex ed a helpful talk or lesson in consent?

00:15:58:01 - 00:16:19:09

Noa

Well, I think, you know, I remember I hear my parents have sex when we're on vacation and we're like in the same hotel room. And that was really uncomfortable. But I also think that maybe that made me feel okay with sex. You know, like I always think of, like the things that actually are uncomfortable are also the sex education that we're getting about what's good or good.

00:16:19:11 - 00:16:35:16

Noa

So I think that was part of it. You know, I don't know, I forgot anything at school, but my mom was a really big she was, you know, she believed in safety so much. So she always said, like, I prefer that you actually even said to me, she probably said to me that. But she was like, I prefer that.

00:16:35:16 - 00:16:56:11

Noa

No, I had sex in her house where she can, like, ask for help or whatever it is versus go to someone else's house. So from a very young age, like my house was like the easiest place I could bring boys to and stuff like that. So I think that is like such an incredible opportunity, right? To learn that you're safe and to learn that you can actually control the environment of your sexual encounters.

00:16:56:17 - 00:17:13:06

Noa

So I'm really grateful for that. You know, now I have kids, so I have an eight year old daughter and a five year old son, and I think everything is sexual education. Right? Like from, you know, teaching her to not like, pull down my bra and be like, hey, you have to ask me for like, I don't like it when you do that.

00:17:13:06 - 00:17:38:20

Noa

And teaching her consent to actually, like, how do I talk to her about masturbation or how do I, you know, so I think it's like this is continuous. Right. And I think sex education as a program only touches probably on 5% of what we remember. And we really remember the way people behaved with us. Right. And if if your mom, do you have to hug your grandpa because he's grandpa, then you learned that your body isn't actually yours, right?

00:17:38:20 - 00:17:46:20

Noa

So it's like, how do I continuously think about consent as a framework or engagement and not just in the sexual realm?

00:17:46:22 - 00:17:53:05

Luna

Oh, yes. So how wait, so how did you learn then? Or like when did you learn? Just like trial and error.

00:17:53:07 - 00:18:13:23

Noa

I think so, I think, you know, so much of it is luck, right? I was so like getting to, you know, I had like an idiot teenage boyfriend, but at the end of the day was like pretty safe, you know, he wasn't, you know, he cheated on me and blah, blah, blah. But he was still not abusive. He was still like, respected my boundaries, still cared about my pleasure.

00:18:14:00 - 00:18:37:19

Noa

So I think I probably learned from meeting respectful people and learning that I deserve it. Okay. Someone unlike, you know, back in the day, this was like I want to say, like before 2000, in the 90s, I was in like a AOL chat or one of those chat rooms. Uhhuh. And I pretended that I was 18, but I was actually 16, and I met this person.

00:18:37:19 - 00:19:03:03

Noa

He was 21, and he was so nice. And I remember being like, I have to come clean. I'm actually 16. And he was a little bit of my sex like educator. He was like, you should read this book. Like the story of, oh, and you, you better like, masturbate and learn what you like. And he never did anything sexual with me, but he was like this enlightened or like consensual character in my life that I'm super grateful for.

00:19:03:05 - 00:19:08:16

Noa

I then tried to have sex like six years later and it wasn't very good. But I'm grateful for oh.

00:19:08:16 - 00:19:13:07

Luna

Wow, six here. That's so cool. Wait, so you read Story of oh, when you were 16?

00:19:13:09 - 00:19:17:01

Noa

I know, I know, I took you home, right?

00:19:17:03 - 00:19:19:04

Luna

Was that your first exposure to kink?

00:19:19:06 - 00:19:37:19

Noa

I think so it's like, okay, you know, I remember I was like the read too diary thing, like, there's all these, like, TV shows that were, like, sensual ish stuff. So I think it probably there was some power dynamics there. But yeah, that was like the most intense okay I've ever.

00:19:37:21 - 00:19:54:05

Luna

So I would love to hear your professional origin story. Like what got you to this moment through the lens of like, whatever parts of your sexual self you feel comfortable sharing. Like how did you get like you said, this is your dream job. Like, tell us whatever you feel comfortable sharing.

00:19:54:07 - 00:20:12:01

Noa

You know, there's like the way that sexuality was always my hobby in some way. You know, I remember I met my partner, one of like 25, and we were like, drive down to our apartment, were roommates, and we were like, talk about sex the whole time and be like, what about this? And about that? And then we weren't even dating.

00:20:12:01 - 00:20:34:12

Noa

But we love, like flirting and talking about it. So yeah. And then we started going to sexy themed party started with like regular parties, but it was like kinky themed. Or there was like this path that, like, sexuality was always part of my aliveness. And then really, what took off? And, you know, I'm so grateful for him, Romi, because he was like, what about this party?

00:20:34:17 - 00:20:53:19

Noa

He was like the instigator of, like, googling because it's really hard. It's like, to find these communities. Right? So you're like, I know that there's cooperatives happening somewhere, but I have no clue where they are. Right? Because they're not on Facebook. And there was no Facebook then. But it's like terrible website, the drag. Is anyone actually there and what are they trying to tell me?

00:20:53:21 - 00:21:19:20

Noa

So he did all of this hard work probably of like finding in these communities. And we slowly, slowly we tell you we go to like play parties and we just play with each other and like slowly, slowly we start opening. But what made the biggest change for me was, you know, I just had my second child and I was working at Lyft and I could I got into this tech track and I was like developing and getting more and more power.

00:21:19:22 - 00:21:37:06

Noa

I felt extremely alone. Right. Like tech tells you, like, don't worry about it. Your friends are your peers and don't worry about it. Your mission in life is like our mission as a company and don't worry about it. Will impact is how much revenue you're building for the company. And that really didn't feel good because I didn't really like my coworkers.

00:21:37:08 - 00:21:52:23

Noa

They didn't love the way we made the decision as a company, and they didn't really like how much revenue abroad for the company. So I was like, yeah, what am I like, why am I spending all this time? And who am I? And where do I belong? And I kind of decided I call it the Fall of Rage.

00:21:52:23 - 00:22:16:01

Noa

I had this like rage that I was like, you know, everyone must suffer if I'm suffering at work. Romi, you better suffer at work, you know? And I got, like, this month, and I was like, I don't think that's actually true. What if I, like, just went and found my people and I got committed, and I found this community called bonobo Network in the Bay area that they hosted, like six positive spaces and six parties.

00:22:16:01 - 00:22:35:18

Noa

And I was like, you're going to be my people. And I came to mission with them, were the founders. And I was like, I'm going to create a kissing booth at your party. I didn't want to play with anyone sexually, but I'm going to create something that I cannot ask people vulnerable question and make them like roll the dice and then they can tell you whatever it was, connection like you.

00:22:35:20 - 00:22:56:21

Noa

And then I built community, you know, the I remember, like coming out of that party and like three people became friends, like, asked me to be friends on Facebook. And I was like, this is community. And like a year later, like, they have become my friends. They're like, suddenly I walk into an event and like, these people like, like me, and they know me and I feel like they cheer for me.

00:22:56:21 - 00:23:20:18

Noa

So like in some way, while I was doing this, like tech work and advancing in it, my VR like meaning in life became these communities where I felt like I belonged. And then after I saw the power of that, I was like, I want to bring that to more people, to start organizing my own events and started organizing, you know, workshops and circles and seeing the impact of what it feels like to create a safe container.

00:23:20:20 - 00:23:43:10

Noa

Yeah. And then it was like, how do I do more of that? Because, like, I like the tech. And, you know, I like working with really smart people. But I see the transformation in creating safe containers and creating content culture. So how do I bring these two together? And then when bloom can I mean Luna, who is the founder, we got connected and but like this is it like this is actually my dream.

00:23:43:10 - 00:23:50:09

Noa

Like how do I create more of, like a scaled up version of, you know, safe containers?

00:23:50:11 - 00:24:01:10

Luna

I'm here for it. Okay. So tell us, what's your day to day like? Like what do you actually do? How do you spend your time? How are you making the world a sexier, more loving place? Like, what are the parts that light you up?

00:24:01:12 - 00:24:21:07

Noa

What like for me up is hearing people that are not alone. You know, it's either I talk to users all the time, and what I hear is people to think like, oh, I found, you know, my wife came out as bisexual and I felt really confused by it. And I went on bloom and I went to this, you know, poly happy hour.

00:24:21:07 - 00:24:42:05

Noa

And I met another dad who their wife is poly. And we are now we're going on walks and I have a support system. And so hearing those stories is what really lights me up. And then talking to educators and people who organize the spaces and they're like, yeah, every day me like five more people that come from your app.

00:24:42:05 - 00:25:01:20

Noa

So it's just like this idea that I'm allowing more counter-culture people to actually find their really likes me up. And then, you know, I'm so grateful for the culture that we have on the app. So what I do all day is like meeting people like you. Let it be like, oh, let's talk about it. How do we make the world sexier and less shameful?

00:25:01:22 - 00:25:12:04

Noa

And then in addition to that, like meeting other educators and there's so many cool events happening that I'm like, how did I never hear about, you know, people doing such creative events?

00:25:12:06 - 00:25:21:13

Luna

I feel that way so much. Also reading the bloom newsletter. And I'm like, okay, invite. And I've invited so many of the people from there too. So it's like all unfolding in divine timing to things.

00:25:21:15 - 00:25:40:12

Noa

I love that. Right, exactly. So it's like, how do we feel more of and I think there are subgroups, but you have to be invited to them. I think part of it is how do we actually, you know, event organizers want to meet more people. And there's so many weird, freaky, sexy people that want to find events. So how do we actually allow that to happen?

00:25:40:14 - 00:25:59:22

Noa

Yeah. And then the second thing is that I'm thinking, you want to do like how do we create a better culture, right. Like I do think about consent. Right. There's like all these apps, they only do cancel culture. Right. So they do two things. It's all like a numbers game, which is like we need more women, right? And we'll make the men pay for the dating app, which is like what dating apps do.

00:25:59:22 - 00:26:24:07

Noa

And it's like a numbers game. And then if you misbehave, we're going to kick you out, right? Cancel culture, you're out. You're a bad person. But these terrible men that just go to the next day are friendly because no one's giving them feedback and no one's actually teaching the community how to behave in these like highly, highly sexual or highly high possibility spaces, like because they don't have any access.

00:26:24:07 - 00:26:50:22

Noa

Did before. So they come in and they're like, oh, you seem sexy. You probably just want to see my dick. It's like, no, actually not. So how do we teach people that? Right? Because they're blinded by what they see. So I'm really thinking a lot about how do we do consent culture at scale and how do we educate people how to behave in these places, and how do we educate people, how to ask and how to say no and how to receive no?

00:26:50:22 - 00:26:55:19

Noa

So that's like a lot of my new thinking is around, like, how do we do more Asian?

00:26:55:21 - 00:27:22:20

Luna

That's my favorite stuff to noodle on. And my personal focus or foci over the last couple years have really been honing in on the specific, like verbal communication, noticing actual needs and desires, finding reasonable ways to have people who probably have trauma in their nervous systems to articulate, and then just like knowing it's a whole mess. And I think one of my personal pet projects is talking to dudes who people usually yell at, you know?

00:27:22:20 - 00:27:42:12

Luna

And so I always kind of like have these like, steps that I go through where like, yes, it's very annoying and terrible to receive so much attention from complete strangers. So they're like, hello, I exist. Therefore I'd like to fuck you because you seem good, you know, and I get those messages or some version of that. I'm obviously exaggerating, but I have a lot of education energy still, and I love doing that.

00:27:42:12 - 00:27:46:10

Luna

So that's if you ever want to noodle on topics. That's literally my favorite thing.

00:27:46:10 - 00:28:07:17

Noa

So. Well, I think it's really interesting. If you gonna talk to Me by Rick, he does involve the admin of and he talks about that. There's like a two side to this conversation or like how do you feel the know inside yourself and how do you create space for someone else to feel know how do you speak now in a way that lends for someone else to know?

00:28:07:22 - 00:28:36:20

Noa

And then how do you speak harm and kind of repair, right. Because like, there's so many layers of consent from like feeling it inside you to speaking it, then working with someone hurts, hurting and I'm building that community here in Maui and I'm like, harm will happen and hurt will happen. Like, this is like we are human beings and us engaging in anything feels like we will hurt each other and we will, you know, press on each other's like buttons and scars.

00:28:36:22 - 00:28:52:22

Noa

The big questions like, are we feeling safe enough to bring it up? And are we feeling safe enough to receive it? And I think that you're in trouble because you're a bad person now that you did it. And are we feeling safe enough to actually repair or not repair, but have these, like, really difficult conversations about it?

00:28:53:00 - 00:29:11:16

Luna

Yeah, and it's such a good area of research. One thing that I've noticed through the last five years of cultivating my personality to allow myself to express my curiosity in question form, because before age 27, when I started this, I, like, could barely ask the millions of questions. I was just like, confused and disconnected most of the time.

00:29:11:16 - 00:29:33:15

Luna

And I was like, what the fuck is happening on this planet? But I was just trying to pretend to be like everyone else. What I've realized is we are. I'm gonna speak broadly here. So these are generalizations, but I've noticed that there seems to be this pattern of, like, judgment of ourselves and each other in an effort, oftentimes to create safe spaces, but it creates the cancel culture that you were kind of referencing.

00:29:33:15 - 00:29:52:07

Luna

And I personally, in the last year or two of my own research and in my own personal life, have gotten so much mileage out of the phrase, hold on, I need something different. I have to figure it out. Like when I get a know in my body or when I, you know, and I'm a person that's pretty full of yeses and I'll be like, touch me here, go there, you know, and I will frame it in the positive.

00:29:52:09 - 00:30:03:10

Luna

But I've, I've really found because I'm a person that will trigger the fuck out of people on accident, because I'll have really clear boundaries and I'll express them immediately, like, not like that. And that was like what my early sexual communication sounded like.

00:30:03:10 - 00:30:21:00

Noa

So that really resonates. And then how do you create that? Right. So when something's when I play with people, I tell them like, you know, for me, actually it's really hard sometimes to say no. So what helps me is if you check in and allow me, like 10s to think about it because my automatic will be like, yeah, I'll time it.

00:30:21:00 - 00:30:27:03

Noa

How do I onboard people right to what I needed to feel safe to say no?

00:30:27:05 - 00:30:51:06

Luna

Yeah. I love also not asking people yes or no questions. I love to be like, what's feeling good right now? What needs to feel different? Is there anything I need to change? You know, because I really practice with partners, inviting communication. In the beginning of being with a new lover, I usually do some version of like, I really love to know what you're enjoying, and I need to know if you need anything different because I want, you know, and that works really well.

00:30:51:06 - 00:31:05:18

Luna

Like that has worked really well over the past couple of years too. Then again, if I'm with penis owners, like they're pretty happy for the most part I haven't. We'll see. I'll continue to workshop that. But I have a lot of friends too who are nonverbal, especially when turned on. So it's like, you know, we all have to do our best.

00:31:05:20 - 00:31:18:15

Luna

Okay. But work what? How are you spending most of your day to day? Like it's talking to people and then like organizational stuff and then you're, like, noodling on, you know, saving the world with consent, but like, what's it like?

00:31:18:17 - 00:31:43:06

Noa

So I think part of it is like, what's the needs of our users, right. Like whether it's event organizers or our community members or what's their needs in terms of like what products we need to build and that product could be like on the app itself. Like people want to be able to filter events based on what they're interested in or people want to be able to, like, send you know, connection requests with a small amount.

00:31:43:07 - 00:32:02:14

Noa

It's like understanding continuously what people are like looking for that, like one part of it. The second one is like, what content do we want to have on the platform? Right. So what's really interesting is there's some events that are not great for every platform, right? So like kink events and sex education is really hard to promote on regular social media.

00:32:02:16 - 00:32:21:03

Noa

So we get like a lot of them in our platform. But then if you think about dance events or, you know, storytelling events like that's much easier to put on social media. So we get a lot less of them. But if we know that our audience is looking for these events, how do we proactively go out and bring them into our platform?

00:32:21:03 - 00:32:30:06

Noa

So like a whole second piece of the work is how do we think about the content, our platform and how we continuously improving the type of content that our audience wants?

00:32:30:12 - 00:32:31:00

Luna

Yeah.

00:32:31:05 - 00:32:53:14

Noa

The third one is really thinking about building the community. So like what processes we need to put in place for consent, what processes do we need to put in around like communication? What processes do we need to put around for like ticketing? Like everything that actually makes allows us to scale in a inefficient and like still tight way as a community.

00:32:53:16 - 00:33:05:16

Luna

Yeah, yeah. For anyone who's not familiar with the app, I have downloaded it. I made a profile. I'm not a big swiper, but will you just explain kind of how it works? Because it has daily limits and things, and I think people like to know these details.

00:33:05:18 - 00:33:34:02

Noa

So our app, my vision for what we should do, is that bloom is the place for you to find alternative communities, right? So the alternative dating app for alternative people. So if you're a non-monogamous, queer, kinky, you know, if you believe in like plan medicine or if you believe in like activism or, you know, all of the things that are outside of like normative humans, which a lot of us are non-normative in so many ways, it's a place for you to find your people.

00:33:34:04 - 00:33:51:15

Noa

And we believe that the best way to find your people is actually by meeting them. So yeah, we have a part of it that is you can see profiles and you can, you know, like or not like and connect with people because we believe that the better way to connect with people is through conversations and through shared experiences.

00:33:51:17 - 00:34:14:06

Noa

So we have live events. We have online events where people actually meet. So for example, you go on the app and you look for real events and you'd be like, oh, there's a rope jam and there's a rope workshop in my city. And as you look at the different events, you can see who going to these events. You're like, oh my God, I saw this person last week in the munch.

00:34:14:08 - 00:34:46:23

Noa

And you can connect with them and be like, hey, I'm going to be there. Maybe you want to like sharing an exercise together, or maybe after the event you go and you find the people and you like connect to them and you're like, it was great meeting you. So it's a way to build like a way deeper level of relationship because I really believe, even though it feels like today you can meet a million people in five minutes, the majority of them are very, very, you know, surface level relationships just because there's so many, you know, if you go on any dating app, you probably have 5000 people in line for you to like, like.

00:34:47:01 - 00:35:11:16

Noa

But the truth is, relationship takes time and connection takes time and community takes. And so we believe that creating these links between events and communities and chats is what creates enough depth for people to like. Actually become in relationship. And that's what I hear. I hear from people, oh, it came from bloom just to find events. Because we're probably the most advanced event listing app.

00:35:11:22 - 00:35:23:06

Noa

I came for the events, but I found all of my partners pretty much on it. So I think that it's like people come for the events and stay for the relationships in some way. But yeah, I love that.

00:35:23:06 - 00:35:34:16

Luna

I love, I know that you said you haven't, like, shared with your whole network yet, but the people who do know about your new job so far, like what have the reactions been like?

00:35:34:18 - 00:35:58:05

Noa

It's been really amazing. I feel like I'm really connected to the Bay area six positive community. So like I said, Bonobo Network or some more like other alternative communities. And we've been doing, you know, unofficially so many events and working on a lot of like content culture and a lot of accountability work. So just feels like I get to work with my friends, which is pretty amazing.

00:35:58:06 - 00:36:21:18

Noa

Yeah, people are really excited, and I think just my ability to also bring the tech sides of I've seen some big companies like Square and Lyft and Adobe and being able to bring that mindset into a world which has been always like very alternative. I think it was really welcome because I think it will help us like scale and actually bring the story into more mainstream a culture.

00:36:21:20 - 00:36:31:19

Luna

That's awesome. So you really do have a gift for fostering creating community. What do you think it is about yourself that makes you so good at what you do? Like why? How?

00:36:31:21 - 00:36:36:05

Noa

Yeah, I think well, I'm short. I think that helps. I think I'm like.

00:36:36:06 - 00:36:36:18

Luna

Really?

00:36:36:22 - 00:36:45:19

Noa

Yeah, I know I'm five one. I think people experiencing me as like not very threatening and I think that really helps.

00:36:45:21 - 00:36:54:10

Luna

Oh my gosh, I wonder. So I've always been like, why are people treating me like I'm in charge? Why do they think that? Why are they getting mad at five eight? Yeah. All right.

00:36:54:10 - 00:37:18:06

Noa

Thank you. So interesting. I was I saw on LinkedIn the CEO he posted like we should really have underneath our zoom what our height is because because I get really surprised by people's. And I was like that is like so interesting and actually completely like does not take into account minorities and like the impact of people who are like not unlike the correct side of like the average.

00:37:18:07 - 00:37:34:02

Noa

Like actually this helps people who are should not be marginalized. I think like it's just like so interesting how you completely did not take that into account. But I do think that, you know, it's great when you're tall and you can like, assume that people assume a lot more power of, you.

00:37:34:07 - 00:37:51:02

Luna

Know, I just figured it out, like last year. I'm like, I'm submissive as fuck. And I'm always like, don't ask me questions. I'm not the I don't know, I don't know, you know? And then I was at jury duty and everyone is asking me what to do. And I'm like, I do know the answer, but why do you assume that, you know, okay, well, I think.

00:37:51:02 - 00:38:14:01

Noa

That is part of it, right? Power dynamics, I think you so I was just talking to someone about it yesterday. That is like we need to be aware of power dynamics, right? Because like, even if you feel like, oh, I'm just like a normal person and I don't know anything about life and I'm just, you know, feeling shy and embarrassed and an outsider as much as anyone else.

00:38:14:03 - 00:38:40:23

Noa

Still, the world sees you in a different way, right? So if you're like a male or if you're a CEO or if all these things like people project on you, even if you don't feel it. So move away from like for leaders, like you have to move away from just thinking that it's not going to happen. If you tell everyone that you're, like, embarrassed and still feel like a 12 year old kid and actually own the fact that you have power and then like, own it and then behave in accordance to it?

00:38:41:01 - 00:38:51:08

Noa

Yeah, I think because I'm assured, you know, women and people are. Yeah, just assume that I'm safe, which I'm not. I'm very, very, very mischievous and.

00:38:51:10 - 00:39:04:06

Luna

I love that. Okay. But like at work, do you, are you like putting puzzle pieces of people together? Like, what is it about group or community that, like, speaks to your heart? You know, I feel like you probably have some skill you take for granted that I could learn from.

00:39:04:08 - 00:39:30:05

Noa

Yeah. My husband Romi, he produces festivals and festival called Soul Play, which is about connection and intimacy and embodiment. And he's always on stage and he's super these incredible leader. And we're extremely different. He has this vision. He's like, people will walk into the venue and they'll go through this experience. And even if some people will feel uncomfortable with it overall is going to create a better experience.

00:39:30:05 - 00:39:53:18

Noa

And I think that his very unique superpower, and I am much more like in the one on one and the experience. So I think what makes me a good people manager, a good community leader, a good deal is that I really understand what is hard for people and I'm able to like, identify like the challenges, the opportunity, like where it's like the actual emotional block and the need.

00:39:53:20 - 00:40:10:13

Noa

And I'm able to like, maneuver through it being like, oh, you're saying that you don't want this, but what I actually hear you is that you don't feel like safe or people like, see you in this way. So I think that there's like a way that I understand, like the underlying needs. You've been talking about needs, but underlying needs.

00:40:10:15 - 00:40:11:04

Luna

Yeah.

00:40:11:06 - 00:40:16:15

Noa

And I'm both like then address them without getting too caught up in the details.

00:40:16:17 - 00:40:37:12

Luna

That's incredible. And I think that through all of my research that's the skill that I don't have that I am desperately trying to teach myself because my brain is very literal and I love to take people at their word because consent, right and agency right. And I'm going to do what they said, right. And through interviewing people over the last five years and like, oh my goodness, there are layers.

00:40:37:12 - 00:40:56:08

Luna

And at some point it's up to me to decipher and make a choice about what their animal body is saying versus what their words are saying. And especially in sexual spaces, you know, and especially spaces where I am so rule following, I'm so consent oriented. That's like to be able to read between those lines is beautiful is a beautiful skill.

00:40:56:08 - 00:41:01:04

Noa

So a book that I highly recommend is Crucial Conversations.

00:41:01:06 - 00:41:01:17

Luna

Okay.

00:41:01:17 - 00:41:22:12

Noa

And Crucial Conversations really speaks to the underlying narratives. Right? There's like you perceive something, you perceive me saying something, you make a meaning out of it and you react to the meaning versus the actual behavior. So it anchors people on like, oh, what you have to start with is the middle. Like the meaning? Like what exactly did you make meaning out of?

00:41:22:12 - 00:41:27:13

Noa

And how do we unfold this versus the behavior that you witnessed?

00:41:27:15 - 00:41:43:22

Luna

Yeah, yeah. And sometimes when I hear a phrase or a series of words, I can understand it with my very creative brain in like four different directions. And then sometimes in asking those clarifying questions, they think I'm being a little shit and I'm just like, no, I'm just trying to make sense of it. I can't wait to read Crucial Conversations, I will.

00:41:43:22 - 00:41:46:02

Luna

I read books like this all the time. It's my favorite.

00:41:46:04 - 00:41:48:03

Noa

Wait, what do you recommend that I read?

00:41:48:05 - 00:41:49:20

Luna

What are you trying to learn right now?

00:41:49:22 - 00:42:02:00

Noa

I think I'm really interested in reading. I'm well, I just buy this book The Rise of Virtual Communities. I think I'm like, really interested in how do you connect deeply but like one to many verses, 1 to 1.

00:42:02:02 - 00:42:04:19

Luna

Have you read the Art of Gathering by Priya Parker? Yeah.

00:42:04:21 - 00:42:06:13

Noa

Of it. Yeah.

00:42:06:15 - 00:42:09:03

Luna

That's like definitely necessary.

00:42:09:05 - 00:42:10:03

Noa

But I need to.

00:42:10:06 - 00:42:25:22

Luna

Oh that's great. I have the audiobook and I just relisten to that, especially because I am so obsessed with, you know, I'm working toward long term goals of creating IRL spaces for people that are kind of like retreat like or like the Starbucks of the kink world, basically, or whatever. You know, this is maybe mixed with a museum.

00:42:26:00 - 00:42:45:03

Luna

And so that's so I think a lot about that. I'm looking at my books over there, if you just for funsies, just because it's amazing. If you haven't read A Curious History of Sex by Kate Lister, she is fucking hilarious. She's a British historian and author, and it's just one of my favorites. And she also wrote harlots, Whores and Hack about a brief history of sex for sale.

00:42:45:05 - 00:43:03:11

Luna

So she's one of my just like favorites is just like, delightful in the space connection wise. I also really enjoyed and found insightful. Tell me what you Want by just and Lee Mueller. He's another podcaster and I'm trying to get him on here because it just talks about people's fantasies. I also really like this. This is like a written for adults to talk to their kids.

00:43:03:11 - 00:43:26:06

Luna

But I'm obsessed with the book Beyond Birds and Bees by Bonnie Giraffe, because it's such a helpful framework for thinking about the weirdness around our culture and sex and how to have conversations. And it's written for parents, but I'm like, it helped me a lot too, so I love that. Okay, well, are there any, like, juicy sex stories that you've encountered because of your work that you can share with us, like things you never would have come across otherwise?

00:43:26:08 - 00:43:30:17

Noa

Well, I can tell you a story that is not connected to my work that.

00:43:30:19 - 00:43:31:21

Luna

Oh, I love that.

00:43:31:23 - 00:44:00:11

Noa

Well, this is like one of the things that I wanna, I'm actually curious about doing because I think there's so many events that are happening that, you know, we have like 10,000 events every year that people post on boom. Wow. And like probably so many of them are like wacky, creative ideas. So I want to, you know, do some kind of write up or like a blog or a podcast where we actually talk about the level of creativity when people combine sexual energy and activism.

00:44:00:16 - 00:44:30:15

Noa

Yeah. So I went to this event where it was a six year event where it was about capitalism, and each person that walked in the room and got an envelope when they were like they were born with some amount of wealth. Right? Similar to like the real world, like all random. And now you had to walk through this party and like, engage and, you know, you could you had to pay money to sit on the sofa or have a snack or get a massage.

00:44:30:15 - 00:44:52:13

Noa

And now you had to deal with whether or not you had money and if your privilege or not, the privilege. And as I think that was like really interesting and I came in with this vision, I was like, I want to be a trophy wife. I want to see what it feels like to be a trophy wife. So I pay this matchmaker to connect me with the richest person that she knew about in this party.

00:44:52:15 - 00:45:27:03

Noa

And I found this like he was like a baller, you know, he had, like, a money tie and, you know. Yeah, I had only $40. He had $20,000. And I got that experience, which was pretty boring and terrible where I was extending extend like making small talk. And he would just give me money periodically. Okay. The joke is really boring because I kind of want to go and like, play and hang out and do shenanigans, but I'm like attached to this rich, kind of boring person that everyone else wants to talk to because they're the richest person in the room.

00:45:27:05 - 00:45:51:22

Noa

And in order to, like, get this stream of funds. So after ten minutes, I was like, okay, no thank you. It was nice, like I wanted because like, but but it did me like a great experience. So I like these ideas. Like I like the idea of, like the crazy things that people do to like, push the edges of sexual experiences and, you know, meaning and values.

00:45:52:00 - 00:46:11:10

Luna

Wow, that's so fun. I have also never been a trophy wife, but it's something that I think about a lot because one of my my like next project that probably no one will take me up on the offer for collaboration with is. I'm like, well, I've never been interested in marriage, but I'm a little curious about divorce and I would be interested in project based.

00:46:11:10 - 00:46:34:10

Luna

Marriage is like the only way someone can get me monogamous is if they're like, six, you know, 6 to 9 weeks, whatever, six, nine months. And so I've been kind of like thinking about this because I'm like, well, what is the difference between a trophy wife and a prostitute other than like, social acceptance, you know? And that's that's kind of just the question that I want to explore with that performance art, you know, and like the legality of all of it and the whatever.

00:46:34:16 - 00:46:38:06

Luna

I mean, I wouldn't change my name anyway. I don't know, I already didn't change my name.

00:46:38:08 - 00:47:01:18

Noa

I would ask and my friends like, would you rather be a trophy wife or a groupie? It's like one of my all time favorite questions, which is like, would you rather be wealthy? But like someone else owns you, right? So it's like you don't follow your passions and dreams, but you live a cushy life. Or would you rather chase the dreams but maybe be like, extremely like, wealthy?

00:47:01:21 - 00:47:18:05

Noa

So, yeah, I think along with that, a lot of, like my internal kind of thinking, like, how do I think about what does it mean to be like desired versus desire other people. Right. Like, is it a higher value that's on wants you?

00:47:18:07 - 00:47:25:01

Luna

Well, I think there's probably categories to like. Which versions of desire are the most juicy for which people you know.

00:47:25:03 - 00:47:26:23

Noa

Totally.

00:47:27:01 - 00:47:38:10

Luna

Damn. I mean, I would want to be the trophy wife that has, I don't know, a stag husband who's like, yeah, babe. Which which rock star this week, you know.

00:47:38:12 - 00:47:41:07

Noa

There is something for everyone, right? Like speak it.

00:47:41:09 - 00:47:53:09

Luna

Okay. What did you learned about, like, social and cultural norms through your work that has either, like, surprised you in an awesome way and or that you would like to shift, like, what are you noticing about our relational world?

00:47:53:11 - 00:48:13:10

Noa

Well, I've learned that, you know, socially, every city is so different. When I was just talking to Violet, she's on my team on the content and event team. She comes from New York and she came to the Bay for a week and she's like, you guys are weird. Why did you use Facebook? You know, why does everyone still use Facebook in the Bay area?

00:48:13:12 - 00:48:38:03

Noa

And why do you only have house parties? Like what is about the capitalist party? She's like, we never have those. We just go to like, we know where, like the queer bar is. And that's we follow that queer bar on Instagram and that's how we know what's happening. But you search for like a bar of your topic of people versus you find a community, and then the community moves in different venues.

00:48:38:08 - 00:49:02:17

Noa

So I think what I've learned is how different it is and how it's so culture, like micro culture is right of like the the ways people like engage in their self-expression and exploration. And I think it just makes me think about how much more mindful we need to be around, allowing a city to actually build itself up versus try and like put a framework on people.

00:49:02:22 - 00:49:20:21

Luna

Yeah, yeah. Well, and here's a question. Is it the city of self or is it the individuals who are choosing to inhabit that particular place that have the resources and the desire to actually be the hosts? You know what I mean? Because I'm like starting to meet some of those people in L.A., and I'm also been hesitant to go to events in L.A. because I'm like, I don't want to go as why and get recognized.

00:49:20:21 - 00:49:33:01

Luna

Should I be in a week? I don't know, what am I doing? I don't want to be like a citizen, you know? And so it's it's interesting because it's like, yeah, who is creating that culture? What about the other cities? Like, do you have other like broad generalizations for them?

00:49:33:03 - 00:50:00:18

Noa

Yeah, I think that like the San Diego City is really interesting. San Diego is a very tight community, even I think in big cities like L.A. and the Bay in New York, like you have micro cultures, right? So there's like poly people, but there's four different organizations that each one has, like their different flavor of consent. And whether or not they like costuming or don't like costuming, they have a theme or they don't have any way that the cool kids visit, like the weird kids.

00:50:00:20 - 00:50:23:11

Noa

And then places like Diego and Portland, it's like, there's not enough of us. We have to go to all the things, right? Like, I'm kinky in poly. There's all like these layers that all merge together just because of the sheer amount of people. There's a lot more exploration, I would say, and a lot more fluidity versus, oh, is this right for me?

00:50:23:11 - 00:50:27:18

Noa

Exactly. In this moment where like big cities have that a lot more interesting.

00:50:27:18 - 00:50:31:18

Luna

Are you in the US only or are you in other places?

00:50:31:19 - 00:50:45:08

Noa

Yeah, currently we're in US only just because we need like the market. Right. You know, it's not like we're dating or it's not just online. So we need enough events. So people, when they join in, they're like, oh yeah, I have enough friends for me here.

00:50:45:08 - 00:51:00:13

Luna

So that makes sense. That makes sense. Okay, so have you noticed in your position any sex related shifts or trends in this industry in general, like when we're at whether we're talking about like dating apps or kink spaces, like it's anything come to mind?

00:51:00:15 - 00:51:30:22

Noa

Yeah, I just and you know, again, I think it's because we've grown from like the very clear, sex positive community of the Bay that we have all these very consent minded people. But I've been talking with people, and a lot of money here is like, I don't know if I can reach out and how do I make sure that I have consent, like messaged someone on the app and so much more like mindfulness than I've ever seen on Earth around like behaviors and being aware of privilege.

00:51:31:00 - 00:51:49:14

Noa

So I think that's really cool. You know, I am originally from Israel and even Israel, which we used to be like way more of a macho country. Like every time I go there, I see a lot more consent and like female first norm. So I think that's super cool and so excited about it.

00:51:49:16 - 00:51:58:16

Luna

I love that. How has your work influenced your own sex life? It sounds like there's a little bit of vice versa, but like, what's that dialog like?

00:51:58:18 - 00:52:18:15

Noa

Yeah, I spoke about this a little bit before, but I didn't speak it about myself. But I like acknowledging my own power. Right? I think I always I did events in the side and you know, I mainly am like a participant and I hang out with a lot of people who lead communities. I've never had to really deal with what you're dealing with, what you're like.

00:52:18:15 - 00:52:37:17

Noa

You're the face of something, right? Like I always like, hang out and create experiences, but I've never been the face of it. I've only been like on the side. I like this privilege of being like, oh, you know, no one actually pays attention to me. And now I am like that person. I am the person with power for the like.

00:52:37:19 - 00:52:58:21

Noa

You know, I still go to like, play parties or dungeons and like, I'm like, oh, how do you even, like, engage, right with people? Like how much more layers of consent and power awareness do you have to, like, bring into the conversation to actually feel safe to like play right and to self express? I think I'm in the middle of transition in some way.

00:52:58:21 - 00:53:17:13

Noa

Like I feel like I haven't done it enough to really feel anything, but this is something that I'm thinking about all the time right now, being like, oh yeah, I'm the person these people are. They're like, I feel like you're familiar. And I was like, maybe from that email from like the news, you know, I'm sure that happens to you.

00:53:17:13 - 00:53:22:22

Noa

But yeah, like I think it's like leaning into, like, oh, the responsibility that comes with it.

00:53:23:04 - 00:53:45:10

Luna

Yeah. I feel that. Yeah. For the juiciness of in progress though, you know, and and for me too, like giving myself permission to let go of authority as identity all the time. Because if I am not at the end of the day, connected to my own core of pleasure and desire and, you know, creating safe spaces for myself to be in that, then I have lost the whole point of everything.

00:53:45:10 - 00:53:57:08

Luna

So I feel you in figuring that out. Okay, so in your perfect world, what are your boundaries between work life and your personal life look like.

00:53:57:10 - 00:54:05:07

Noa

Like again, like, this is where I feel like I understand why famous people only hang out with famous people because it's so hard to lean on. Anonymous. Yeah.

00:54:05:09 - 00:54:08:05

Luna

You're like, hey, I'm here.

00:54:08:07 - 00:54:24:14

Noa

Yeah, but this is like the work of the shame, right? Like, I think this is it comes back to like, what's the shadow in it? Right? Like, what am I like really embarrassed by people seeing. Right. Like, how do I create a world where it's like, totally fine to be like a normal person going to, like, play parties?

00:54:24:14 - 00:55:01:03

Noa

This I think, where I'm like, reevaluating my value system or like my shame experience, like, oh, you're something for me to work on, right? It's like, you know, you going to play parties when you're like in a different state, but what about when your communities there? So I think my perfect world would be that I would be able to like, speak very transparently about what embarrasses me and what I know, like actually be humanly right and like, actually be able I could deal with like, ouchies and be able to deal with my needs without wanting to, like, look perfect all the time.

00:55:01:05 - 00:55:01:13

Luna

Yeah.

00:55:01:13 - 00:55:26:23

Noa

And you know, work for me. Right. It's so much conditioning around like needing to be perfect and needing to be like the best and stuff like that. And I want to create more spaces than people to just be them. And there's like a we're in a together experience that people would feel. But I know that it's available. I just I need to get over my stories about, you know, my worthiness.

00:55:27:01 - 00:55:44:03

Luna

And maybe your nervous system needs a safe space to just practice growing into this new thing. You know, I was just listening to one of my favorite podcast, the Huberman Lab, on this episode on Growth Mindset. You know, and as I'm listening to it, I'm like, oh, that's a lot of, oh, wow, you know? And I was praised for being smart growing up.

00:55:44:03 - 00:56:05:22

Luna

The basic thesis is sort of like kids who are praised for being intelligent, get this perfectionistic streak, and then they actually choose easier questions than their performance drops. Whereas kids who are praised on the like effort are more likely to choose harder problems. And then in the long term, like Excel. And I was like, oh yeah, I've always been a process oriented rather than product oriented human, you know?

00:56:05:22 - 00:56:21:20

Luna

And that's what I really like about talking to people and understanding where we are. I think it's also why I accidentally explode people sometimes, because I don't realize how extreme most people's need to be perfect is because I'm not very perfect, and I am very messy and in a good way, you know? But like, yeah, how do we bring that in?

00:56:21:20 - 00:56:29:10

Luna

Especially when there's that sense of like needing to be at charge. And I started hiding more from the internet when I was like, I don't know how to deal with an audience. Yeah.

00:56:29:12 - 00:56:45:03

Noa

We all it is like, okay, for us to feel okay with like our failures in our and in the ways that we, like, hurt other people than the rejection that we get. Right. And then, yeah, being okay with that will allow for more of this, like beating down.

00:56:45:05 - 00:56:51:18

Luna

Or for me, I have a rejection kink. So I'm like, yes, please. You'll just like me. To everyone.

00:56:51:19 - 00:56:55:22

Noa

But that just means that you're saying that you have like an internal like safety.

00:56:56:03 - 00:57:04:21

Luna

Oh, yes. Yes, yes. It's a great defense against disappointment if I just like, expect everyone to reject me and just really, you know, and it keeps me from having to grow in uncomfortable ways.

00:57:04:23 - 00:57:23:14

Noa

I didn't know about that. No, I think it allows you to. Actually, I've just been reading this book from I don't know her name, but it's called, I will not remember it now, but it's this product. She writes a book about how to use dominance and submissive to get what you want.

00:57:23:16 - 00:57:31:17

Luna

Is it unbound because she Urbani uck I that's the other one. I almost recommend it. Yeah, I love that book and she's got a lot, but that's a.

00:57:31:21 - 00:57:34:20

Noa

Welcoming note, right? She talks about.

00:57:34:22 - 00:57:38:04

Luna

Oh, I've gotten so good at it.

00:57:38:06 - 00:57:42:15

Noa

Good job. One day I'll be like you when I grow up.

00:57:42:17 - 00:58:01:22

Luna

No, I don't, I hope not, no. You have social skills that you don't have to worry about that. But. No, I'm really good at receiving. No, I'm too good at it. And sometimes I'm like, yeah, good. Reject me again. Thank you. You know, and I think, I think my task is to practice more of her asking, like in that book for me, just the asking practice writing down the people I can ask from.

00:58:01:22 - 00:58:08:19

Luna

I'm like, okay, you know, that oh, here's what you should read if you haven't already. Have you read Existential Kink?

00:58:08:21 - 00:58:28:09

Noa

I started it. I never did like the exercises. You know, I like I like it, and sometimes I like, lean into it, and then I'm like, how do you find the balance between victim shaming and existential kink? Right. Because it's like, are you bringing on yourself all the bad things that are happening to you because you want it?

00:58:28:11 - 00:59:01:10

Noa

Like, I think it's like a good practice if you're someone who feels empowered in their asking for they want to say no, and you're able to use that as a framework for evaluating, like what's in the shadows for you. I like it, but if you're someone who continually falls into like bad relationships and continually like allows yourself to like, be manipulated or taken of, it could make it sound like you're actually wanting it versus like you're trying to clear it up or, you know, stuff like that.

00:59:01:10 - 00:59:20:00

Luna

So I think she has a section that is specifically addresses that or sort of is like, don't do these exercises if you're in this sort of place. For me, it's just been an extremely helpful tool for creatively assessing the patterns that have been showing up in my life over and over again. And then also being able to like, enjoy when shit goes wrong.

00:59:20:00 - 00:59:35:22

Luna

Because I, I read it two years ago and I'm just like, oh, well, like, for example, I have a kink for an overwhelmed pattern. I love to just like learn and learn until I'm like spinning out. And so that's actually helped me bring enough awareness to it to shift. But I totally hear what you're saying on it's got to be the right moment in someone's journey.

00:59:36:00 - 00:59:55:17

Noa

Yeah. And I totally hear you. Like I think sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm like reliving the same story that no one takes me into account again with every relationship. But what's the chance of that actually being true versus when a partner be like, I'm bringing it on myself? Someone could be like, I'm choosing these people that do it for me.

00:59:55:17 - 01:00:01:03

Noa

But like recognizing that you are the driver of it allows you also to shift.

01:00:01:05 - 01:00:13:10

Luna

Yeah. That. Yeah, yeah. It's such a delicate balance between like taking on all the responsibility for yourself and everyone and just being like, okay, this is just part of me. I choose something different now. I struggle with that. Or rather, I'm finding that balance.

01:00:13:12 - 01:00:34:02

Noa

Here about like existential kink. If men read it, you know, like, you know, and this is like very gender binary. But I'm like if like overall more men would read it, would they be like, bullshit? And you know, the lie like, does it like perfectly match women's like taking on so much of the responsibility?

01:00:34:04 - 01:00:49:16

Luna

That's a great question. I don't know, I've, I've told the frameworks to a couple guys. I mean, then again, I give it to a former partner and we broke up not long after that. So it's a great question. Yeah, that's that's something I would be really, really curious. I don't think that community has a lot of dudes, but I don't I don't know.

01:00:49:18 - 01:01:05:17

Luna

Well, so here's a question. What do you feel like you have learned is useful when communicating about the topic of sex? Like what do you find most helpful in those kind of like situations or conversations? Whether it's in the work zone or in a play them?

01:01:05:19 - 01:01:32:11

Noa

So I think continually when I talk to people about my own process for non monogamy or my own process of sex positive spaces, I can just anchor in my own experience, right? Because I find that so many people have so many feelings about it, right? Like there's nothing that triggers all of your stuff like sex, right? But like, if I talk about it, being an orgasm is like anyone who's married has so many feelings about that, right?

01:01:32:11 - 01:01:51:05

Noa

Like, so being able to, like, just own that. It's my experience and own the fact that it might not work for other people. And also like acknowledging like the risks of it. Right. And being able to be like, yeah, I don't know if I'll stay forever. Like it can promise the best outcome will happen or like what you're afraid of won't happen.

01:01:51:10 - 01:02:20:23

Noa

It's like just being able to. It was more space for all the experiences has been really helpful. I think what I'm really curious now is how do we do more of like that shared responsibility, right? Like we spoke about like being able to hear know and being able to speak, you know, you know, a lot of what people are talking to me about now is like, how do I feel safe and how do I feel safe to, like, show my face on an app that talks about kink or non-monogamy and like, yeah, how do we make it safe for people?

01:02:20:23 - 01:02:41:08

Noa

Are they like acknowledging their fear is really like, you might be penalized if your boss finds out that you're in an app and right that you're kinky. Like, I can't promise that's not going to happen. So like validating the, you know, allowing people to be informed about the risks that they're taking. And then the second one is like, what do we do as a group?

01:02:41:11 - 01:02:50:22

Noa

How do we take the risk and try and put it across as many people, not just the people that are the most vulnerable in the most like risk averse.

01:02:51:00 - 01:03:05:12

Luna

Yeah. Damn. I am feeling how strong I'm in a bubble right now because it's been a minute since I've had to think about, like, actual repercussions other than when I was like, interviewing someone from Utah. You know, like, I haven't thought about the fact that there can be, I guess, consequences.

01:03:05:16 - 01:03:32:16

Noa

I was hugging someone the other day and they were saying that they're like job searching, right? They're like 23 and they're like, I don't know what if someone who interviews me sees me on the platform or I think there something like open, which is the non-monogamy nonprofit that focuses on elevating non-monogamy, they say that like 78% of non-monogamous people say that they were penalized in some way for being non-monogamous, too.

01:03:32:18 - 01:03:59:14

Noa

Yeah. Well, so I think it's like real, you know, I want to believe that it's not, but it's also real. People get kicked out of the house, people get kicked out of their job. People get like, not promoted. So part of it is owning it. And one of the I'm excited about is like, how do we create more accountability, right, in some way, which is, you know, when you go to a dungeon, even if you see your coworker, you're like, you're here just as much as I am, like, you're wearing a weird color and just as much as me.

01:03:59:14 - 01:04:27:07

Noa

And there is this like share. Like, you have skin in the game just as much as I do. And what I'm interested in is like in a virtual platform like bloom, how do we create this mutual responsibility, which is like you have skin in the game, like you committed to this and you're not just like a tourist. So I'm like, conduce you think about that because I don't want only, you know, people that are vulnerable to be at risk and need to pay, you know, to be incognito or whatever it is.

01:04:27:07 - 01:04:33:23

Noa

But I want more of like the community to spread it across the community to make sure that the more people are actually paying.

01:04:33:23 - 01:04:45:14

Luna

Especially since so many people, like, literally are behind closed doors. It's that's the funniest, saddest thing about all of society to me is I'm like, we're all, do we? You're weird too. Okay, well, totally.

01:04:45:18 - 01:05:07:01

Noa

That was just googling, like, who are like the most famous poly celebrities and it's like very little. And I'm like, I'm sure that there's like so many. They just are like, not out of that. Oh yeah. Like and only like five people like that Cosmo found. And like, it's so sad to me, right, that we're still so conservative in that world.

01:05:07:01 - 01:05:28:15

Noa

And hopefully I think as we maybe as Gen Z becomes, you know, more active, maybe we'll we'll be, you know, I was just thinking about Esther Brill talks about it a lot and she's and I love her, but she talks about monogamy. Used to be one person for your whole life. Yeah. Now, monogamy like one person at a time.

01:05:28:17 - 01:05:31:18

Luna

In theory. Not usually in practice.

01:05:31:19 - 01:05:51:06

Noa

Right. And then, like, you know, maybe the next generation would be like one person in an any given moment, right? Or whatever it is like, I think that is like one person to raise your kids with or whatever it is like, I think the idea of like, we think that monogamy is always been, you know, the core of our society.

01:05:51:06 - 01:05:58:15

Noa

But the truth is monogamy has opened up significantly since, like parents generation and definitely our grandparents generation.

01:05:58:17 - 01:06:11:14

Luna

Yeah. Yeah, certainly. And more public ways. But affairs and courtesans have existed forever. So what are you most excited to explore in your work going forward?

01:06:11:16 - 01:06:36:06

Noa

What I'm most excited about is I'm imagining a world where there is like sub. We have chats right now in our platform. So now there's like event, there's people and there's chat rooms, which is like, oh, massage exchange or like Burning Man event. And I'm excited about the idea that this will be a place where people like stay in touch with groups like dating one on one.

01:06:36:06 - 01:07:05:05

Noa

You do like dating a community, dating like a family or whatever it is. I'm excited. Like what? Like me, a business idea of feeling when you go to bloom that the layers of relating is like even in there. Like I have the people that I've talked about being a parent. I have a people that I talked to about being intimate, have the people that I talk to about, you know, makeup and how do you then go and feel like you have different layers of yourself in different places?

01:07:05:07 - 01:07:13:23

Luna

Oh, yummy. If you could wave a magic wand and teach everyone something about sex, what would it be?

01:07:14:01 - 01:07:36:11

Noa

That it doesn't matter whose fault it is, it really matters how you own the hurt and actually connected people. And I feel that with like my eight year old daughter, she's like, it's all my fault. And I'm like, I know it's not your fault, but you still should check in on this person and that you're like, bumped into them, or you still should, like, clean them like that.

01:07:36:11 - 01:07:56:18

Noa

Your brother still, but like, there's this like inherent like cancel culture or like, you know, who is responsible and you have to pay the price that happens, which I think leads us to disconnection all the time, being in defense. So if I could teach anyone anything about sex is like, you're not in trouble. Like, even if you hurt people, you're not in trouble.

01:07:56:18 - 01:08:05:17

Noa

And it's like way more meaningful if you repair. And if you speak up for action, then like the actual behavior that happens.

01:08:05:19 - 01:08:25:20

Luna

Yeah, yeah. My personal goal in life is to do everything in my own power to make a world where taking care of each other is the norm. That's what my future sci fi sex ed musical feature film is called mission 69, because it will remind each other to take care of each other. And it's like that is an ongoing, active thing that we all just have to continue to participate in if we want that.

01:08:25:20 - 01:08:35:10

Luna

You know, I do, yeah, I don't I don't like the attack culture we live in. What else have we not touched on? What else do you think we need to make the world a sexier, more like have.

01:08:35:12 - 01:08:44:03

Noa

To deny now? Because yeah, the only thing that nine is like a terrible position because, like, no one's getting that attention.

01:08:44:07 - 01:09:07:16

Luna

I used to feel that way, but that was when I was at a time where I was, like, concerned with my own performance because I was like, this is not the best angle for me, because I was mostly with penis owners at the time. I was like, worried about my body. And then I sort of like have shifted over the past few years of like if when I'm 69, it's because I'm in a delicious mess of original creativity that is sex.

01:09:07:16 - 01:09:22:12

Luna

And I've also been spreading the word about like On Your Side 69 too, because you can I can reach much better. And I love stimulating and like 69 times. I've even now wigs on both people. Like sometimes I just love to get like fingered while while I'm like on the whatever whatever part I'm on.

01:09:22:17 - 01:09:27:08

Noa

If your goal is in like orgasm, it's all about the co-creation and the experience.

01:09:27:10 - 01:09:41:19

Luna

And the next level. Yeah. And it also really depends, I think, on the body sizes, like it doesn't work as well with some people. You know, it's just it's the reality of physics. So that's when we have to get creative. Do you have any other like work related sex stories or thoughts or anything else you want to share?

01:09:41:21 - 01:10:06:12

Noa

Yeah, just share how cool it's meant to be able to like, work in an industry that everyone I work with is like aware because someone told me of my coworkers and my partners and the organizers are all, like, so skilled with communication and like, and, and I just feel like so lucky to be able to, like, be able to work with people who care about interpersonal lives.

01:10:06:12 - 01:10:31:04

Noa

And I think it's like, so cool. And then also there's this way of like, how do you actually create a work environment, right? That it's like, yeah, we can talk about this, but we cannot go to like a play party together or like I think it's like really interesting to kind of feel like, how do you both embody sexuality as like something that is completely normal and also understand, like the implications of sexuality as like something that is like a big deal.

01:10:31:04 - 01:10:38:04

Luna

Emotionally for people. Yeah, yeah. I mean, how do you navigate those boundaries? So like, do you just stay away from colleagues outside of work.

01:10:38:06 - 01:11:00:18

Noa

Like go to the same parties? You're like, you kind of like negotiate like which communities? Arikara, which community they're using. The thing like that is part of it. And like a lot of communication, like on my bloom profile, I'm like, I work at bloom and I will not escalate unless someone else escalates. And, you know, like do a lot more proactive communication.

01:11:00:20 - 01:11:18:21

Luna

Oh, I love that. I will not escalate unless someone else escalates. But then you just have to make sure that they're good at using words and not just like yeah. Well I still have a fantasy of going to a play party, just like mouth taped and put like, I'm shy. Please pet, I don't.

01:11:18:23 - 01:11:22:01

Noa

Want any help that I would love to help.

01:11:22:03 - 01:11:40:00

Luna

Yeah, I need that. I just want someone to, like, point me because I'm. I'm sort of just like, I don't know. Okay, let's end on a fantasy brainstorm. If you had an unlimited budget to build a sexy playroom or play house, or play castle or play whatever structure you want, it could either be for yourself and or represent bloom.

01:11:40:01 - 01:11:41:22

Luna

What would it be like?

01:11:42:00 - 01:12:15:10

Noa

I would probably create as much to choose from. I would probably create like different. It would be like this like Victorian home with probably like ten different rooms and each room would be like a different experience or like focus areas. I'd be like, dance like, how do you land in your body right? And it would be like sensuality, like an almost kiss booty or something that would people through the experience of like, oh, I could play different flavors because I think that's what bloom is about.

01:12:15:10 - 01:12:46:03

Noa

It's about like, it's not just like one community, but like variety and like exploration maybe, or like not into it and like, again, but you try it once. So it's create like these different rooms that each one would be a different type of sexual exploration and self-expression and allow people to like, try it out and then decide like how the experience, like you said, of seeing like no or saying yes and following up with questions so they can actually learn the skills of curiosity and boundaries.

01:12:46:05 - 01:13:03:14

Luna

I love that. I was so yesterday I was at the park collecting sex stories because I do that on Sundays, and it was the Lotus Festival at Echo Park Lake. And I was staring at the lotus, and I was thinking about the fact that I was going to interview bloom tomorrow. And I was like, what if there was a big building in the middle of the desert?

01:13:03:16 - 01:13:21:05

Luna

Every room was a petal and it and then I was just like, what am I thinking? Like, I never answer this question for guests, but I was like, blooms could be. And then I don't know, are the outer petals less intense? And maybe the inner ones are the kinkiest? I'm a big fan of circles, so I always think in circles and spirals and in my perfect place.

01:13:21:05 - 01:13:33:22

Luna

I think the upper floors are the kinky ones, the lower ones, or you know, or maybe somewhere where people can watch, somewhere where people can play on. And then, you know, of course, education is the base of all of it. The museum to the.

01:13:34:00 - 01:13:34:21

Noa

Well.

01:13:34:23 - 01:13:45:08

Luna

Yeah. And lovers, you can go find Bloom community.com on the internet. Download the app. I am on there somewhere. And Noah, thank you for being a guest on Sex Stories.

01:13:45:10 - 01:13:48:12

Noa

Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure, I thank you.