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43 single pansexual woman, a Sex and Pleasure Educator and creator of Peg the Patriarchy, into: kissing, face sitting and butt stuff, kink, toys, threesomes, consent, communication and so much more.

🔗 LUNA LINKS |  lunamatatas.com / @lunamatatas / x / tiktok

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00:00:00:10 - 00:00:21:12

Luna Host

And our guest today is a 43 year old single, pansexual woman. She is a sex and pleasure educator who does online classes as well as workshops one on one and couples coaching. So anyone looking to learn about kink, toys, threesomes, consent, communication and so much more, go check out our website. Creator of Pig the patriarchy, she is into kissing face sitting and butt stuff with maybe the best name ever.

00:00:21:12 - 00:00:23:17

Luna Host

Welcome, Luna Matatas.

00:00:23:19 - 00:00:24:16

Luna Matatas

Oh my gosh.

00:00:24:16 - 00:00:25:13

Luna Matatas

Thank you so much for.

00:00:25:13 - 00:00:29:06

Luna Matatas

Having me here. I'm so excited. I'm so excited. I'm like, I'm.

00:00:29:06 - 00:00:42:00

Luna Host

So excited to ask you start out, but please tell us if you were to rate yourself on a sexual shaming meter with ten being so full of shame and one being like, I'm not shaming at all, where do you fall today? Right now? And when? If does it ever has it ever fluctuated?

00:00:42:02 - 00:01:00:01

Luna Matatas

I would say I'm around a three and it definitely has fluctuated up around seven, eight, nine, ten. I mean, I grew up Catholic, so I knew a lot of the, the shaming kind of stuff that we're taught around masturbation and sex with partners and desire. And then I also maintain the three.

00:01:00:01 - 00:01:01:12

Luna Matatas

A shame, because.

00:01:01:14 - 00:01:08:03

Luna Matatas

I definitely have fantasies that I feel ashamed about, but I don't want to bring them to reality. But they're so hot.

00:01:08:03 - 00:01:13:00

Luna Matatas

So hold on to I totally feel that.

00:01:13:02 - 00:01:19:16

Luna Host

I feel like I talk about fantasies all the time, and then like I'm with a partner or like and I'm like, no, never mind. I don't know nothing about admission.

00:01:19:18 - 00:01:21:10

Luna Matatas

Can you tell us what is.

00:01:21:10 - 00:01:23:09

Luna Host

Sexy to Luna?

00:01:23:11 - 00:01:24:05

Luna Matatas

Ooh.

00:01:24:05 - 00:01:48:08

Luna Matatas

Okay. So there's I'm going to give you a boring answer and a hot answer. So sexy for me is definitely communica ative. If someone is communicative, either verbally or non-verbally. So I know what the signs of pleasure or displeasure are, then I feel more confident I'm getting enough information to kind of push the right buttons. And then another sexy thing that that's more more hot.

00:01:48:13 - 00:02:08:11

Luna Matatas

I really think spanking is it's just so sexy, like giving and receiving. There's just so much naughtiness. And then there's this pushing the boundary between pain and pleasure. And it's a great activity for people who are like, I don't know how to get into kink. What's kink? What? That it's so simple. You got your tools right on your body with your hands.

00:02:08:13 - 00:02:09:12

Luna Matatas

And yeah, I like.

00:02:09:12 - 00:02:11:06

Luna Matatas

Do you like spanking or you spanking thing?

00:02:11:06 - 00:02:16:12

Luna Host

I was going to ask if it's too much information. If I reveal to you that I have a very bruised sore ass right now.

00:02:16:14 - 00:02:19:14

Luna Matatas

I'm in a spanking summer. This has been a summer, like.

00:02:19:14 - 00:02:24:17

Luna Host

The most things ever, and I've gotten the most bruises. I have a partner that has really nice hands and is really good at it.

00:02:24:17 - 00:02:25:22

Luna Matatas

So like.

00:02:26:00 - 00:02:36:18

Luna Host

And I got spanked in the car for the first time, which I don't know if I should even talk about, but it was like a road head spanking situation and a big truck with a big center console. And apparently those are perfect spanking benches. We were very safe.

00:02:36:20 - 00:02:39:12

Luna Matatas

Oh my goodness. Oh that's a.

00:02:39:14 - 00:02:40:12

Luna Matatas

You're having like a.

00:02:40:12 - 00:02:41:23

Luna Matatas

Hot but spanking summer there.

00:02:42:00 - 00:02:47:05

Luna Host

Really. I mean that's why I love that you said spanking. That's so hot. Have you taught a lot of people to spank?

00:02:47:07 - 00:03:11:06

Luna Matatas

Yeah, that's actually one of my more popular classes because it is something that we kind of see. It's a little bit more of a normalized kink, right? Like it's more accessible for people. And so I think people are always curious about, okay, can I feel naughty and still feel sexy even though in our brains, yes. But then when it comes to bending over someone's knee or, you know, having someone on the bed and you're spanking there, but like, does it feel weird?

00:03:11:06 - 00:03:20:06

Luna Matatas

Does it feel awkward? So I give people the kind of the hard skills, but also the psychological skills, like how do we tune in to how do we feel in our spanking?

00:03:20:08 - 00:03:39:21

Luna Host

Oh, I love that so much. Can I ask you a practical detail? Because I just went to a spanking workshop and like the presenter, it was a big group, so I didn't get to like ask all my detailed questions. But the presenter was talking about like imagining a heart shape on the ass. And I didn't know if the upright heart or upside down heart for in terms of like an aiming target for you to imagine your head.

00:03:39:23 - 00:03:41:03

Luna Host

What do you think about that?

00:03:41:03 - 00:03:45:07

Luna Matatas

I think that's actually a great way to think about it. And the.

00:03:45:09 - 00:03:46:02

Luna Matatas

I don't I don't know.

00:03:46:02 - 00:04:04:03

Luna Matatas

Actually if it would be upside down or I guess maybe in the position, I don't know, but I think the chunky parts of the heart, the rounded parts will probably land in the steam, but she kind of area we're just avoiding like lower back genitals and like any of the area where we might have more impact on like internal organs or potential.

00:04:04:08 - 00:04:05:07

Luna Matatas

We want to hurt people.

00:04:05:07 - 00:04:06:05

Luna Matatas

We don't want to injure them.

00:04:06:10 - 00:04:10:10

Luna Host

Yeah, I have to ask extra if I want pussy's laughing, right?

00:04:10:10 - 00:04:11:13

Luna Matatas

Yeah.

00:04:11:15 - 00:04:11:22

Luna Matatas

Okay.

00:04:11:22 - 00:04:19:13

Luna Host

So tell us now, what do you think in your mind, in your vocabulary, in your personal dictionary? What counts as sex?

00:04:19:15 - 00:04:58:02

Luna Matatas

I love that question because I think when I was growing up, sex was penis and vagina. And so if that didn't happen, then sex didn't happen. So I didn't count a lot of my early sexual experiences with kissing or even fingering or oral as sexual experiences. And I think that actually sex is however you define it. So if that's about swapping fluids, if that's about penetration, if that's about kissing, if that's about, you know, oral, whatever it is that makes you feel like you have engaged your sexual and erotic self, because for a lot of people, just getting think that sex or that we've got eroticism and sex.

00:04:58:04 - 00:05:15:22

Luna Matatas

And I think that a lot of times we focus on sort of a, a reproductive, really heteronormative idea about what sex is. And even heterosexual people find that limiting, you know, needs to be done is so limiting to consider as sex. So I think where ever you're getting pleasure out of your erotic side, that sex.

00:05:16:01 - 00:05:19:09

Luna Host

Oh, I love that definition. Thank you for that.

00:05:19:11 - 00:05:19:18

Luna Matatas

Okay.

00:05:19:23 - 00:05:27:00

Luna Host

Let's know what sort of sex talk sex ed lesson or consent education did you get in your Catholic upbringing?

00:05:27:02 - 00:05:28:08

Luna Matatas

None.

00:05:28:10 - 00:05:30:14

Luna Matatas

I got it. Well, I got I got how.

00:05:30:14 - 00:05:38:05

Luna Matatas

To make babies. Like, I remember this pamphlet showing, like a full grown baby with, like, a face in a drawing or something, you know?

00:05:38:05 - 00:05:38:14

Luna Matatas

Right.

00:05:38:14 - 00:06:02:22

Luna Matatas

Like, at like, three months or something. And so I didn't really learn anything about pleasure. I didn't learn about desire. I didn't learn about queer sex. I didn't learn about anything other than reproductive parts and what they do and put together. And so the consent part didn't actually matter. It was sort of fed to me as well. This is what you do when you are married, and it's sort of a condition of marriage, and this is how you participate.

00:06:03:00 - 00:06:15:00

Luna Matatas

So it was only actually until I started volunteering with the Gay Men's Sexual Health Network. And at the time that I was in high school, it was all gay men talking about HIV. There were really not a lot of other populations that were focused on.

00:06:15:02 - 00:06:17:21

Luna Matatas

And I was like, wait, why people have sex for.

00:06:17:21 - 00:06:18:15

Luna Matatas

Reasons other.

00:06:18:15 - 00:06:20:14

Luna Matatas

Than babies?

00:06:20:16 - 00:06:22:00

Luna Matatas

So I credit gay men.

00:06:22:01 - 00:06:29:09

Luna Matatas

With me learning about like, consent and pleasure. I was like, what? That's awesome.

00:06:29:11 - 00:06:36:05

Luna Host

I would love to hear your professional origin story and mix in any personal details that feel relevant and comfy for you.

00:06:36:07 - 00:07:06:14

Luna Matatas

Oh yeah. Absolutely. And so I actually studied approaches to sexual health that were focusing on HIV in school. And so my target region was eastern and southern Africa. So after I graduated, I went to eastern Southern Africa for two years, and I was doing HIV kind of frontline education, working with organizations around gender, no matter where I was, if people were still like I could talk to, I was blue in the face about condoms and people would come up to me afterwards and say, yeah, but my husband doesn't get me wet first, or how do I get her to go down on me?

00:07:06:14 - 00:07:25:14

Luna Matatas

Or how they were concerned about pleasure, like how to do the sex? Yeah. And so that was such a big missing piece in public health for sure. We talk about fear, we talk about avoidance. We talk about, you know, all these kinds of things that are just not sexy, but we need to talk about. So when I came back home in Toronto, I was doing frontline work with marginalized groups.

00:07:25:14 - 00:07:49:11

Luna Matatas

So LGBTQ youth, seniors, racialized people, and eventually I, I thought, you know what? The same conversations are happening here. People really want to know about how to connect, how to have relationships. And so I kept working my day job, and then I started launching my classes on the side. And the first class that I taught was at a feminist sex shop, and it was called How to Have a Threesome with Classes.

00:07:49:13 - 00:07:50:17

Luna Matatas

People knew about it. Yep.

00:07:50:17 - 00:08:14:06

Luna Matatas

Fills up I agree, I agree, and I had had so many terrible threesomes and I thought there must be a way to do this better. And so I used my own crappy experiences and thought about, you know, how can we navigate these really real things that come up, things like self-judgment, things like jealousy, things like rejection, which are all things that if you're dating or having sex with people are in relationships, they're going to come up even in friendships.

00:08:14:06 - 00:08:32:19

Luna Matatas

You know, you want to do something that your friend doesn't want to do. And so there might feel have some feelings of rejection. Then eventually, I launched my own biz. I took the leap, which was amazing, was such a great community to leap into. There's just so much, so much fun, so much connection. I met so many really cool people and I also learned about censorship.

00:08:32:19 - 00:08:40:09

Luna Matatas

We live in a really censored world and it's really hard for me compared to other small businesses, to just be a business. So there's.

00:08:40:14 - 00:08:40:19

Luna Matatas

There's.

00:08:40:19 - 00:08:42:08

Luna Matatas

Been challenges for sure.

00:08:42:10 - 00:08:58:21

Luna Host

I literally filled out my stripe account, just got taken down. I don't even know because I feel like podcast payments through it and like, I'm maybe we'll change the name of this podcast to Secret Stories. I don't know, I don't know what to do, but I feel you on that. It's wild. So give us just an overview of like your day to day, week to week, month month.

00:08:58:21 - 00:09:06:00

Luna Host

Like what is your work like right now? And do you identify as a sex worker? What do you how do you understand that definition?

00:09:06:02 - 00:09:06:19

Luna Matatas

Let's start there.

00:09:06:19 - 00:09:25:00

Luna Matatas

So I think, sex work adjacent I think that the world like stripe and, you know, these payment processors really just lump everybody together and there's no discernment. And so we all face the same censorship. So we definitely have some of the same kinds of challenges. But I think in terms of our work it's a little bit different.

00:09:25:00 - 00:09:51:10

Luna Matatas

I don't do any hands on work with clients, and I've worked with so many different sex workers in partnership, and so it really brings like two different worlds together that have such an obvious overlap. And so sex worker rights are super important in my business. They're super important in a lot of sex education spaces. And then my day to day I have a mix of like doing really fun things like I'm doing with you, where I get to talk to new audiences, I get to meet new people.

00:09:51:12 - 00:10:09:18

Luna Matatas

So a lot of information and education kind of jazz. And then I work one on one with clients. So today I have a full day of clients, which is awesome. People come to me to talk about shame or fulfilling a fantasy. A lot of my clients come to me purely for confidence, like, how do I feel more confident in this situation?

00:10:09:18 - 00:10:27:07

Luna Matatas

I want to get into and luckily I'm a night bird, so I usually work during the day and then take a break. And then I'm probably teaching at night as well. The teachings. My favorite part of everything I hate doing admin. I hate doing social media, but I love I love just teaching. I want to just create education.

00:10:27:07 - 00:10:34:15

Luna Matatas

I want to talk to people like you. I want to be on podcast. And so that's actually my joy time. That's when I'm like in my my element.

00:10:34:17 - 00:10:41:11

Luna Host

That's so cool. Okay. What are some of the reactions you have received in your time doing this work? When people find out what you do.

00:10:41:13 - 00:10:47:21

Luna Matatas

Most people fall into one of two categories. So even if I'm getting my hair done or something and someone asks like, what do you do?

00:10:48:02 - 00:10:49:06

Luna Matatas

You know, I kind of gauge.

00:10:49:09 - 00:10:49:17

Luna Matatas

Is this.

00:10:49:18 - 00:10:50:09

Luna Matatas

Person did.

00:10:50:09 - 00:10:57:19

Luna Matatas

It, you know, be okay with this? So most people are immediately uncomfortable and then don't ask any more questions.

00:10:57:21 - 00:10:57:23

Luna Matatas

Do.

00:10:57:23 - 00:11:02:13

Luna Host

You are you like, I'm a sex and pleasure educator? Or do you start out softly with pleasure? Like, what do you what.

00:11:02:13 - 00:11:04:08

Luna Matatas

Do you do? You know, I.

00:11:04:08 - 00:11:35:04

Luna Matatas

Gauge, like, if I'm taking an Uber and if it's a dude, I'm not telling him what I do. I'm usually saying I do things. I've just had too many bad experiences, so I just, I teach, workshops for wellness and confidence approach. So I might kind of like, soften it. But for the folks who are uncomfortable, I just kind of say I'm a sex educator and they picture children, they picture use, like kind of in school sex education, the best group are the people that are like, oh my God, I've always wanted to be a swinger or how do you do a standing on your head blowjob?

00:11:35:04 - 00:11:38:05

Luna Matatas

And they just play right into it.

00:11:38:07 - 00:11:56:00

Luna Matatas

Which is great when I'm in the mood for it. And then sometimes it's also my job. So I don't want to talk about sex all the time. But I love the curiosity. I love the enthusiasm. So many people are starving for spaces in their friendships and their relationships to have frank and honest conversations about sex. So I end up as someone who feels safe.

00:11:56:06 - 00:11:59:17

Luna Matatas

And so I get the kind of verbal diarrhea ING of like, oh my God.

00:11:59:17 - 00:12:03:09

Luna Matatas

I want to do all these things. You know, I totally get that.

00:12:03:11 - 00:12:06:21

Luna Host

That is why this podcast exists. I was like, oh, my friends are married. They don't want to talk the details.

00:12:06:21 - 00:12:10:15

Luna Matatas

Okay. Oh no, it's not how it came to be. Yeah.

00:12:10:15 - 00:12:25:21

Luna Host

And because of and because of my history, my personal history with rejection and trying to figure it out and my own struggles with communication and my and I have not yet hit my saturation point when it comes to talking about sex. Like it's my favorite topic. It's my fixation with the tow truck driver. The other day I was like, podcast.

00:12:25:22 - 00:12:36:18

Luna Host

I was like, about what? I was like an adult. Adult talking about sex. And then, you know, and turned into a whole, like a tow truck flirty romance, which I initiated, you know? So I'm like, I need to calm down a bit.

00:12:36:20 - 00:12:40:11

Luna Matatas

I know what you mean. Yeah. Okay. So you said you.

00:12:40:11 - 00:12:53:00

Luna Host

Love teaching the most right now. I would love to hear details like. And maybe you just like all of it, but like, in the workshops, is it primarily in-person? It sounds like you do a mixture like, tell us the juiciest bits of teaching for you. And have you always been a teacher?

00:12:53:02 - 00:12:53:14

Luna Matatas

Ooh.

00:12:53:16 - 00:13:20:11

Luna Matatas

You know, I think I think I've been a teacher ever since. I wanted to, like, lined up my stuffed puppies and, you know, teach me. I was like 11 and be like, okay, we're going to do this. I would love to do them. But I was like, okay, I think there is a natural communicator educator in me that like, sex education is like a vehicle for connecting with people, but also disseminating knowledge in a way that's accessible, that it's not just, you know, kind of either too vague or too specific.

00:13:20:11 - 00:13:39:01

Luna Matatas

So I think I'm very much a teacher. The is a facilitator and so having to take in from the audience at the same time as giving to the audience. So I actually love that multitasking. I love being so present where I know what I want to say, but I have to tune in to what the audience wants to say.

00:13:39:03 - 00:13:59:09

Luna Matatas

And that's easier in person because I can see people, I can read them. So pre-pandemic, I was definitely teaching way more in person, and I teach mostly online now, which I also really like, because lots of people don't have a feminist sex shop, and wherever they live in the world, they can't go in-person to something. And so for me, it's better reach and it's also more accessible.

00:13:59:09 - 00:14:23:14

Luna Matatas

People can watch the class whenever they want. They don't have to feel they're going to be exposed to their community. My classes are fuller when they're there online. Yeah, but I love that that dynamism of I'm creating this space and they're actually helping to shape it, even though they're also passively learning. But because I'm tuning in to whatever they need, they get to feel like, okay, I got what I wanted, even though the whole thing wasn't just about me.

00:14:23:16 - 00:14:35:10

Luna Host

Yeah, yeah, that's a really amazing and incredibly unique skill set. I have such a hard time like facilitating online thing. It's like a lot for my brain. So I think that's awesome. But you do work with people in person?

00:14:35:10 - 00:15:00:00

Luna Matatas

Sometimes I do, yes, I'm in Toronto, but I'm all over the place. So now I'm running more intensives in person versus kind of like big group workshops. So I'll be in Portland in October. I'll be in Atlanta in September, and a couple other places in Canada, Halifax in Victoria in November. So it's great to be able to kind of pop into places and do work with people, and then they still have access to me online.

00:15:00:02 - 00:15:09:21

Luna Host

Yeah. That's awesome. Can you share a story that you've encountered because of your work? Like a sexy, I don't know, something you've learned, something you encountered that you like, never would have stumbled across otherwise?

00:15:09:23 - 00:15:23:19

Luna Matatas

I had this rule about very early on in my kind of entering this like pleasure teaching phase. I was like, I'm not having sex with any of my workshop participants. I'm like, this is a hard rule. I want to maintain this thing. So then I broke the rule.

00:15:23:21 - 00:15:28:06

Luna Matatas

And it was so hard. Okay.

00:15:28:08 - 00:15:30:01

Luna Matatas

Thank you for empathizing.

00:15:30:03 - 00:15:32:13

Luna Matatas

What's really hard.

00:15:32:15 - 00:15:51:15

Luna Matatas

But I kind of set up the rule because I thought, you know, people see me in this like, confident, education giving kind of role. And that's not how I am completely sexually. I also have shame. I also have body issues. I also have performance anxiety. And so I didn't want to be held on a pedestal if I was having sex with people.

00:15:51:15 - 00:15:54:13

Luna Matatas

Feel you and I didn't want to be a teacher. I didn't want to be like, oh.

00:15:54:13 - 00:16:06:02

Luna Matatas

I got to come in here and coach because you're not. You can't get an erection. You can't do like, I don't want to. I just want to like an equal partner. But there was this couple that they were so hot and they came to my threesome workshop, and then they went home with.

00:16:06:02 - 00:16:09:11

Luna Matatas

A threesome teacher.

00:16:09:13 - 00:16:32:13

Luna Matatas

And it was still one of my best threesomes, I think, to date. So I don't regret it. But what I learned was, I think a lot of times we have these expectations around performance. And so even though I just taught the class and we talked about connection, we talked about all these things, I could tell because we were the first time together and we didn't take a ton of time do we didn't go out to dinner like we just had drinks at their place.

00:16:32:13 - 00:16:42:06

Luna Matatas

So there wasn't a lot of social lube kind of time. And I think that's so important. Like sometimes we have this fantasy and when we take it into reality, we forget.

00:16:42:06 - 00:16:43:13

Luna Matatas

To lube.

00:16:43:13 - 00:17:02:02

Luna Matatas

That fantasy into reality. Right? You forget it was shit. Yeah. We just kind of plunk it. And so I found that I was really like performance and but because they were really cool, I eventually got comfortable. But I wasted an hour sort of being like, okay, I'm going to take charge. I know what to do instead of just like, receiving.

00:17:02:02 - 00:17:08:04

Luna Matatas

So I think that really helped me see how my own performance shows up and what to look for.

00:17:08:06 - 00:17:23:06

Luna Host

Thank you for sharing that. I am just so appreciative because it's also a lot of what I'm sort of like working through right now to where I'm like, oh, I'm a person. Can you tell us what are, would you say, the sexiest and least sexy parts of your work?

00:17:23:08 - 00:17:24:12

Luna Matatas

Ooh, okay, I'm.

00:17:24:12 - 00:17:52:10

Luna Matatas

Gonna start with the least sexy, I think the least sexiest part is the harassment I continuously get harassed by. I'm pretty sure it's, like, 99% cis head men. So men who think that. Because I'm a sex educator that they can send me all kinds of disgusting photos or messages or be super inappropriate. And so I get emails all the time that are just disgusting and through my business email, I'm like, do you email your dentist, like doing this?

00:17:52:10 - 00:18:12:08

Luna Matatas

Like, maybe they do, I don't know, but it's so objectifying and it happens to me in person as well. Even though I've stood and talked for two hours as an educator, as a leader, as a teacher, I'll have someone come up to me and ask me about my kids or something. And it's so hard to switch from being an educator to then being like, oh my God, I just got objectified.

00:18:12:08 - 00:18:34:10

Luna Matatas

Just like patriarchy does. Like in the real world everywhere, you know, coming from a place of power and then getting disempowered. So I think it's really unfortunate. I think it's just that men need way more education and openness to education and challenging all these kinds of things, but definitely they're the worst part. My favorite part is when people send me testimonials or DMs.

00:18:34:12 - 00:18:35:03

Luna Matatas

Yeah, I.

00:18:35:03 - 00:18:56:15

Luna Matatas

Cry every time. I'm like, I'm so touched and humbled that a someone took the time to, like, reach out to me and be that we had this connection that I didn't really know about, but that there was something happening for them that I was giving. And I always feel really inflo really aligned when I'm teaching and hoping they're getting what they need.

00:18:56:21 - 00:19:02:22

Luna Matatas

But to have someone also be receptive is super important, right? Like I can't do the reception work for people.

00:19:03:04 - 00:19:10:12

Luna Host

Yeah, but what about your own reception work? Is that part of your professional and personal? This is a off the cuff, brand new question.

00:19:10:14 - 00:19:10:17

Luna Matatas

Yeah.

00:19:10:19 - 00:19:33:19

Luna Matatas

No, I like it, I like it. Yeah, definitely. I have a really hard time receiving. I definitely get stuck in like give or mode. So I have to be conscious of, am I thinking that they were down there too long and now I need to like, you know, do this. And it's been good to see other people kind of struggle with issues that I knew were in me, but I didn't know how to actually articulate about them or how to observe them.

00:19:33:23 - 00:19:54:00

Luna Matatas

So there's this beautiful community of we're all dealing with the same stuff. We've all learned how to be shameful in sex. Pretty much in the same ways, and it manifests differently from body to body and person to person. But we've all learned that, you know, sex positivity or embracing our erotic side is not something that's celebrated by the larger world.

00:19:54:01 - 00:20:10:15

Luna Matatas

There's like people like you and me that are doing this work, but I think that's like a really big challenge that keeps coming up for me around receiving, even from a business sense of being able to see my worth, able to see my value. You know, sex education isn't a defined field for a lot of us entrepreneurs in it.

00:20:10:15 - 00:20:16:21

Luna Matatas

And so having to navigate that, people want this education, but it's blocked everywhere. Yeah.

00:20:16:22 - 00:20:19:01

Luna Matatas

And you know like.

00:20:19:03 - 00:20:30:00

Luna Matatas

Like it's really it's really challenging. So even receiving in that way receiving success receiving partnership receiving support that that's all new because we've all had to be really protective.

00:20:30:02 - 00:20:31:09

Luna Host

Oh man, I feel that. Yeah.

00:20:31:09 - 00:20:32:02

Luna Matatas

Thanks for sharing.

00:20:32:02 - 00:20:38:04

Luna Host

I bet on the note of shame, what have you learned about sex related shame through your work that you have insights on for us?

00:20:38:05 - 00:21:03:13

Luna Matatas

Even so, a lot of people struggle with body shaming, and we think that bodies that look more conventionally attractive, that have six packs or are 22 years old or whatever, we think somehow that that equals more pleasure and your body is a vessel for your eroticism, and you're going to have to come into relationship with it over and over and over again.

00:21:03:15 - 00:21:04:16

Luna Matatas

We're all aging.

00:21:04:21 - 00:21:08:05

Luna Matatas

So every day you're going every day, every day, every day.

00:21:08:05 - 00:21:12:18

Luna Matatas

Only J.Lo is not aging. But like the rest of us, mere mortals are.

00:21:12:18 - 00:21:14:22

Luna Matatas

Aging.

00:21:15:00 - 00:21:38:10

Luna Matatas

You know, postpartum, new medications, menopause, perimenopause, all kinds of things are going to change the way we relate to our pleasure. And I think that that changes in thinking that we're going to somehow eradicate it, that it's never going to be there. It's more about how can we show compassion to that side of us that is carrying a narrative that we are not enough.

00:21:38:12 - 00:21:58:23

Luna Matatas

And what does that part need to hear from us? What does that part need to do for us? And a lot of times that's around boundaries. That's around raising the bar for our relationships and partners. I think that's a huge shame. And, I think that I often think, you know, I'm the oldest I've ever been. I'm the fattest I've ever been.

00:21:58:23 - 00:22:17:21

Luna Matatas

I'm the most scarred. You know, these are just life like you. You're your body changes. And yet I'm having the most pleasure ever. And so I wish I could go back and tell, like 24 year old me. Me who was worried about her tummy or worried about body hair or worried about whatever, that it actually doesn't matter. Like develop that erotic relationship to yourself.

00:22:17:23 - 00:22:19:22

Luna Matatas

That is a fucking hot answer.

00:22:19:22 - 00:22:29:12

Luna Host

Thank you for that. What a hot answer. When it comes to shame. So do you feel comfy sharing how your work in this field has influenced your own personal life?

00:22:29:13 - 00:22:47:17

Luna Matatas

Yes, I think I always kind of felt, you know, when I went into the bedroom that I had to be liked, you know, that I had to try and like, do sexual things so that the other person validated my sexiness. And my work has actually taught me, even by teaching it. You know, those who teach can't do as.

00:22:47:18 - 00:22:48:08

Luna Matatas

Like, kind.

00:22:48:08 - 00:23:12:16

Luna Matatas

Of like it came back to me and I was like, oh, actually, no, I need to be here thinking about what's being given and received that it isn't just about me coming in and getting sexiness and getting sexy validation by someone telling me I'm sexy. Like I have to come into my work and into my bedroom feeling like my cup is full and everybody else gets the overflow.

00:23:12:16 - 00:23:33:17

Luna Matatas

They're not here to fill my empty cup, right? That's such a vulnerable place to put myself in, feeling like, oh, this person, whether they think I'm hot or not, is going to depend on whether I have pleasure or not. So I really learn to come into my sexual experiences like like a goddess. I wanted to be like, you know, like, why are you approaching a goddess without an offering?

00:23:33:17 - 00:23:37:10

Luna Matatas

Like, what is this? You don't do oral, you don't do this, like, get out of here.

00:23:37:10 - 00:23:39:13

Luna Matatas

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:23:39:15 - 00:23:46:01

Luna Host

At the very least, I have an excellent invitation for a date like I. You know, I don't know if you get a lot of messages like, hey, I want you.

00:23:46:03 - 00:23:48:15

Luna Matatas

And I'm like, I'm like, who are you? What do you look like?

00:23:48:15 - 00:23:52:05

Luna Host

Where are you? Are you going to invite me to something nice like, are you.

00:23:52:06 - 00:23:53:22

Luna Matatas

What do you want?

00:23:54:00 - 00:23:58:09

Luna Matatas

I just got back on dating apps, and all those messages make me want to just, like, offer you.

00:23:58:09 - 00:23:59:21

Luna Matatas

So I'm like, what?

00:23:59:23 - 00:24:02:16

Luna Matatas

What is wrong? Like, who is going out with these people?

00:24:02:19 - 00:24:07:05

Luna Matatas

So I'm like, where is working? Yeah.

00:24:07:07 - 00:24:21:21

Luna Host

I mean, maybe it goes back to what you said about raising the bar with partnership too. It's like, yes, it's like that needs to happen on all sides. How? I mean, do you feel comfortable sharing how that dating process is going? Because I just stumbled into people in real life recently, in the last two years before that, I was like, oh no.

00:24:21:23 - 00:24:25:04

Luna Matatas

Yeah, I'll happily share. So I'm double banned from Tinder.

00:24:25:06 - 00:24:28:19

Luna Matatas

I'm sorry, I'm banned from OkCupid.

00:24:28:21 - 00:24:30:16

Luna Matatas

And now I'm on Bumble.

00:24:30:18 - 00:24:33:07

Luna Matatas

Okay, okay.

00:24:33:09 - 00:24:57:12

Luna Matatas

And I think I do people of all genders and my experiences with threats with, you know, this like really low effort and then entitled when I don't want it. It's again definitely around, I think how men are socialized around sexuality and entitlement. So I guess there's like feels that that's lacking there. But it's so common and so overwhelming that it's just really disappointing.

00:24:57:12 - 00:25:05:19

Luna Matatas

I think there's so many missed opportunities for connection within themselves and for connection with other people. And they're like, well, why is this working all women are jerks. No, it's.

00:25:05:20 - 00:25:06:08

Luna Matatas

Like.

00:25:06:10 - 00:25:08:00

Luna Matatas

I don't want to come to your house.

00:25:08:00 - 00:25:11:01

Luna Matatas

Mike, tonight. Like, you know, you should.

00:25:11:03 - 00:25:17:16

Luna Host

Your self-love seems low, so I'm not available to you. Go work on yourself and then give me a better invitation, and we'll talk.

00:25:17:18 - 00:25:20:01

Luna Matatas

I'm going to copy and paste that and.

00:25:20:03 - 00:25:24:02

Luna Matatas

Take it to every. Hey answer that you can. Yeah yeah yeah.

00:25:24:04 - 00:25:47:16

Luna Matatas

But I think it's also good for my, my practice around boundaries. So I always tell clients, you know, if you want to start practicing you're no use dating apps. Because when someone says, yeah. So I don't want to go for a coffee, can you just come over, say no, and see how they react? Because if they're going to react badly to a preference before you've even met, what's it going to be like trying to assert your boundaries in the bedroom?

00:25:47:18 - 00:26:00:02

Luna Matatas

And I think it's so important. Every time I've done that, I think it really weeds out people who are caring about my pleasure and my comfort, and people who really just want somebody to masturbate inside of, you know? Yeah.

00:26:00:04 - 00:26:03:02

Luna Matatas

Like, oh, object. Yeah. Oh.

00:26:03:04 - 00:26:15:07

Luna Host

Yeah. That that is such a good point too, you know. And you want to weed them out right away. Because the last thing I want to do is what I've done in the past is get attached to those people, and then it's even harder when the boundary transgressions get bigger. And then it's like a whole situation.

00:26:15:07 - 00:26:20:20

Luna Matatas

So you just add a whole mouthful there. I have definitely been there too. You're still tangled at that point.

00:26:21:00 - 00:26:32:04

Luna Host

It gets real tingly. What, do you feel comfy stepping into the fantasy realm? Like what would ideal partnership look like for you? Like, how would it feel to be supported and pleasured by someone who's like, you know, Luna? Appropriate?

00:26:32:06 - 00:26:37:04

Luna Matatas

Yes. Yes, I am a big touch slut. I'm making so much, you know.

00:26:37:04 - 00:26:37:22

Luna Matatas

Are you? Yeah.

00:26:38:03 - 00:26:40:15

Luna Host

I never been touched enough.

00:26:40:17 - 00:26:43:02

Luna Matatas

To say I won't tap out of touch. I'll be sweaty.

00:26:43:02 - 00:26:45:12

Luna Matatas

I don't care. Yeah, yeah.

00:26:45:14 - 00:26:48:05

Luna Matatas

Do you have, like, hot spots that are your touch spots?

00:26:48:05 - 00:27:01:21

Luna Host

Most of me is hot, but, like, my clit is too sensitive. So if anyone is like boob, I'm like, stop it. But, you know, but but like, all of me likes, touches, you know, and I have to know someone a certain amount and I have to be attracted them a certain amount for their tongue to go in my ear.

00:27:01:21 - 00:27:08:08

Luna Host

Like, that's kind of all the way down. Tweets that I'm sensitive about my belly button. But everything else, I'm like, touch me. All the sensations.

00:27:08:09 - 00:27:14:00

Luna Matatas

Love that. Oh, we're still the same. Yeah, I feel like my back is like a second clit. Yeah.

00:27:14:02 - 00:27:20:08

Luna Matatas

You. I'm like, just kiss my back. You know you need to go down on me like on me.

00:27:20:10 - 00:27:48:18

Luna Matatas

So I need folks that are sensual. And I think a lot of times people think sensuality is about softness or romance. And it can be. Yeah, but I think sensuality is on a spectrum of like softer sensations and deeper, more intense sensations. But they all are about our senses. So someone who's kind of just looking to smash bodies together, I'd rather stay home and masturbate, but someone who's looking for, like, eye contact and like that touch and like kissing is like 90% of sex for me.

00:27:48:18 - 00:28:06:11

Luna Matatas

I love kissing even though I love it, I love it saying so that's like big for me too. And I also think the folks that are not rushing towards orgasm. So, you know, that's so annoying. I can't feel in the moment if someone's trying to just get to the end, you know.

00:28:06:12 - 00:28:18:08

Luna Host

Really relate to that. Beautiful. How do you navigate boundaries between, like yourself and other professionals? Does it come up at all? You said you work with sex workers. Like, what are those conversations like? What are those collaborations like?

00:28:18:10 - 00:28:38:13

Luna Matatas

I generally don't like to play with other sex professionals. I think it does feel like a professional boundary for me. Other people feel very different and I think that's cool, but I also still feel I'm on when I'm a sex educator. So I would be open to dating and getting to know each other, but sort of pick up play.

00:28:38:13 - 00:28:56:15

Luna Matatas

I don't really like to do that with other educators. I feel like there's amazing hotness amongst all that that caters, but it feels like I'm crossing a little bit of a boundary, and I worry about how it changes our professional relationship. That may change in the future. Maybe as I get better skills, but that's where it's at right now.

00:28:56:17 - 00:29:21:11

Luna Matatas

And I did a fantastic collaboration with, professional dominatrix, and she owned her own dungeon, and we wanted to do a femme dom intensive. And it was so great because her expertise around actually dealing with clients and having to unpack fantasies in an hour and, you know, step into a role all within a really short period of time, maybe not knowing somebody so well.

00:29:21:13 - 00:29:50:08

Luna Matatas

Those were amazing skills that I didn't have. I have all these long conversations. I'm texting, I'm writing erotica together. You know, we're like totally deep in the fantasy. So it gave me this improv set of skills, and I think that was so useful for our group. We had a sold out intensive, and it was all people looking to feel more confident in skill and not just learn the technical skill, like not just learn how to swing a flogger, but how do I get into someone's filthy little fantasy and tease out the parts that we can co-create together?

00:29:50:08 - 00:29:51:06

Luna Matatas

Yeah.

00:29:51:06 - 00:30:03:00

Luna Host

Oh, that's so great. Especially since I feel like the totems I've spoken with have such a clear frame around boundaries, because a lot of the professional tricks who are on the submissive side are the biggest boundary pushers out there, from what I've heard.

00:30:03:02 - 00:30:04:06

Luna Matatas

Yeah. So that's.

00:30:04:06 - 00:30:11:05

Luna Host

Really cool. Do you have any other dream collaborations with sex workers or other types of people? Like what other kinds of workshops are in your future?

00:30:11:07 - 00:30:17:17

Luna Matatas

Yes, I want to do more retreats. I'd love to spend an extended amount of time with people.

00:30:17:17 - 00:30:21:09

Luna Host

Yeah, I don't really for my own heart. I'm working on this. Okay, great.

00:30:21:09 - 00:30:23:17

Luna Matatas

I need you. Okay. Amazing.

00:30:23:19 - 00:30:43:00

Luna Matatas

I want to have a space where people can actually sink in to feeling like they have community. You know, we go to these one day things, or they spend two hours with me and they're all pumped, and then they go back to, you know, patriarchal, misogynist, like sex negative world. I want to help them broaden their world so they can feel that they can sink into it more.

00:30:43:01 - 00:30:49:22

Luna Matatas

They can take up more space in it. They can feel like they belong. And yeah, that'd be amazing to do on a beach. It would also.

00:30:49:22 - 00:30:51:12

Luna Matatas

Be amazing to do.

00:30:51:18 - 00:31:09:15

Luna Matatas

Just even sharing space together. So I'd love to do more overnights. I'd love to bring more couples together. I often get one partner working with me and then they bring the second partner in. But I think a space that's invitational to that might actually attract the people that want to learn in that environment. That's essentially that's my wish list.

00:31:09:20 - 00:31:28:02

Luna Host

Oh, I love that. I fucking love my personal fantasy around it is like so I do a lot of like artistic creativity. Like, let's unlock your creative self. Sex is just your original creativity. Not just but like it's the, you know, for for in my own experience, that's kind of been what I've been noticing. And so I'm like, all right, days 123.

00:31:28:04 - 00:31:48:12

Luna Host

We're learning edging and getting to know each other. Nobody touches themselves. Day. For anyone who wants to stay, that's a plate, you know. And everything is negotiated throughout the time and you know, so then it's all communicated and then we're all just like, but I'm like, how the fuck do I advertise back in the day? Especially when they already think that I'm, you know, I go collect sex stories in the park with my little microphone.

00:31:48:18 - 00:31:56:11

Luna Host

And it was inviting people to do that. That got flagged, I think, and solicitation on Instagram, because I had a sex related account inviting people to meet me in person.

00:31:56:17 - 00:31:58:13

Luna Matatas

So the six stories account went down.

00:31:58:13 - 00:32:06:14

Luna Host

So I'm like, maybe I should just call it secret stories. I don't know, that's so frustrating. But here's the thing once we have our retweets going, then it won't matter and people can just know where to find us. Okay, so.

00:32:06:14 - 00:32:10:12

Luna Matatas

Yes, that's what I think. We just kind of keep like hammering away at it. Yeah.

00:32:10:14 - 00:32:20:08

Luna Host

What what else have you learned about social and cultural norms through your work that you have either found, like surprising, either in a good way or a fuck sort of way?

00:32:20:10 - 00:32:42:17

Luna Matatas

I think there's one that comes up a lot around sort of our social media language around identity and things that we think are barriers or that they're challenges for us. And so, for example, people will come into my classes and they'll say, you know, oh, my partner's neurodivergent, you know, how do I how do I respond to their request for strap on play?

00:32:42:19 - 00:33:08:14

Luna Matatas

And I think, like, it's been amazing to be educated in this space at this time where we're breaking the gender binary, where, like, becoming more accessible for disability. We're like, you know, working on anti-racism. We're doing all kinds of things that are massaging a more friendly, open and inclusive society. And I think what's challenging is that neurodivergent people or trans people or queer people or racialized people are fat people.

00:33:08:15 - 00:33:27:15

Luna Matatas

We're not a homogenous group. And so sometimes we're leading with identity. Whereas I need to hear about your feelings. Like, for me, sex and, you know, is all about feelings. How do you feel? And so if your partner has a particular challenge in this case, the example is neurodivergent. I would ask like, oh, like, how does that show up?

00:33:27:18 - 00:33:49:17

Luna Matatas

You know what? What does that look like? Maybe it's about communication. Maybe it's about wanting less touch or more touch or sensory kind of I don't know. So we I think it's encouraged me to ask really specific questions. And it encourages people to think it's a bit more about the experience and that we can't prepare for every single scenario and every single person.

00:33:49:21 - 00:34:00:20

Luna Matatas

But we can change our sex so that we're approaching it with more curiosity, and it's more about like, oh, like, what are you feeling today? You know, Tuesday you're into this. What's your body like on Friday?

00:34:00:22 - 00:34:18:03

Luna Host

I love that you said that because the other reason, you know, my whole I am neurodivergent and people often ask me, but I'm not. I'm autistic. I talk in paragraphs. I know exactly where I am. I'm not distracted. I'm right here. I know I just have four more points to make and I'm sorry I'm overwhelming you with words, you know?

00:34:18:03 - 00:34:46:11

Luna Host

And so I think that is so good and interesting because through this podcast, I've learned to ask all sorts of curious questions, and I have that sort of frame. But what I've noticed through talking to people is, is really this universal desire to control everything so we don't get hurt, whereas it sounds like maybe we're sort of in the realm of like, let's do our best to make sure we're on the same page and then trust that we are resilient and that we're choosing partners, that when shit gets inevitably bumpy because we're here to grow together, we can handle it.

00:34:46:11 - 00:34:54:09

Luna Host

And then, like, find the pleasure through that pain because that's, that's that's where it comes from. We need some contrast, you know?

00:34:54:11 - 00:35:14:00

Luna Matatas

Ooh, I love everything that you said. I love the the idea that, like, life is just messy. Being human is really messy. Relationships are constant harmony, disharmony, repair. It's like the cycle is inevitable. And so yeah, I love preparing people with skills for self-compassion. So if this thing happens, how do you take care of yourself?

00:35:14:02 - 00:35:15:03

Luna Matatas

Yeah, yeah.

00:35:15:05 - 00:35:19:20

Luna Host

In the adult sex education space, does that feel accurate to like where you live? Okay.

00:35:19:22 - 00:35:20:08

Luna Matatas

Yes.

00:35:20:13 - 00:35:30:13

Luna Host

What do you think are the largest gaps missing right now? Let's forget about censorship. Forget about funding, forget about access for right now because that's a given. But like, what do you think we need to, like, fill the most?

00:35:30:15 - 00:35:48:20

Luna Matatas

I think there's lots of classes about communication. I think people need a ton more. I don't think it's like the sexy topic that people, they want to go to BJs, they want to go to eat pussy. But, you know, communication is really the skill that helps you become better at any technical skill, like any kind of sexy skill that you want.

00:35:48:22 - 00:35:57:03

Luna Matatas

I think we're also missing information for perimenopausal and menopausal women. It's like as if they die after, you know, like 35.

00:35:57:05 - 00:35:57:16

Luna Matatas

You know?

00:35:57:16 - 00:35:59:07

Luna Matatas

Right. Like I'm 43.

00:35:59:09 - 00:36:04:18

Luna Matatas

And so I think I'm 34. I'm about to die. You're about to die. You are the ghost.

00:36:04:18 - 00:36:10:07

Luna Matatas

I'm a ghost right now.

00:36:10:09 - 00:36:10:20

Luna Matatas

But yeah.

00:36:10:20 - 00:36:27:06

Luna Matatas

I get more clients, actually, who are in there. I have a client who's in her 60s. She calls it her 60s, and I love it. I'm like a lot of people are divorced at that point. Or they're just, like, reimagining what their relationship looks to look like to themselves now that they're retired or the kids are out of the home.

00:36:27:08 - 00:36:44:04

Luna Matatas

So I think there's a huge gap there, especially because there's so many bodies changes happening. And so how do we relate to that? What kinds of loops do we need that are different and what kinds of vibrators work better? I don't do a ton of work with youth. I work with youth who are entering university kind of college level age.

00:36:44:10 - 00:37:08:06

Luna Matatas

I think we need way more work there. That is less about cover your ass consent. Like no means no consent. They want kink education. They're like choke me daddy all over TikTok. Like, why are we not talking with them about like, real stuff? And I've had some cool opportunities with like Columbia University and folks that have large audiences to be able to actually speak in like, relevant language.

00:37:08:08 - 00:37:22:04

Luna Matatas

And it's amazing because then they actually start to take it out of, you know, here's a 32nd TikTok of somebody slamming their girlfriend against the wall and calling it kink, you know, and they get some actual skills. They're not just learning from porn, right?

00:37:22:04 - 00:37:28:05

Luna Host

Right, right. What other trends have you noticed in the sex ed space that feel relevant or important to speak about?

00:37:28:07 - 00:37:40:21

Luna Matatas

I was hosting an anal sex podcast for about two years, and, I thought that was was such a great trend because we started to normalize anal because we all have a butthole.

00:37:41:00 - 00:37:45:00

Luna Host

We're all a little slut, right?

00:37:45:02 - 00:38:06:10

Luna Matatas

If you've got an interest in that or curiosity or your partner does, there's really not a lot of quality information about it. And I think that trend is beautiful that we're seeing much more beyond gay men, because all gay men have anal sex either. So we're seeing things related to different bodies. I think the other beautiful thing is that we're seeing way more trans sex educators.

00:38:06:10 - 00:38:25:09

Luna Matatas

We're seeing this quality information that's relevant to everybody, whether you're trans or not. And and I think that's great. I think that the future of sex education is non-binary. And so we should be moving towards breaking all of these made up rules that actually don't support our pleasure. And trans educators are doing so much of that work.

00:38:25:11 - 00:38:31:22

Luna Host

That's amazing. What are you personally the most excited to explore besides retreats going forward?

00:38:32:00 - 00:38:36:03

Luna Matatas

Yeah, so I just launched my own pegging dildo two weeks ago.

00:38:36:05 - 00:38:43:23

Luna Matatas

And let me tell you, amazing what I know. It was so fun. Like, I just was like, what.

00:38:43:23 - 00:38:46:12

Luna Matatas

Is my life? I'm designing a dildo.

00:38:46:14 - 00:38:48:22

Luna Matatas

And so I want to do.

00:38:49:00 - 00:39:10:00

Luna Matatas

More things that are kind of filling a niche. Like all the lows can be pegging till those really. But this one was, I thought about it from a place of look how much I know about anal sex, like let's design it to actually maximize the pleasure real estate of the rectum. Like why wouldn't we stimulate it instead of as a tube, but as a collection of nerve endings and muscles?

00:39:10:01 - 00:39:30:05

Luna Matatas

And so I'd love to, to work on creating more toys like that. Like more thing, you know, longer handles or different kinds of sensations. There's so much stuff out there on the market already, but I think having a sex educator do some of this stuff actually make sense in just making it more specific to actual human bodies and not trying to please everybody.

00:39:30:10 - 00:39:37:18

Luna Host

That's so cool. Where do people find your pegging dildo? And also what sort of straps do you use with it? Like I will have so many questions.

00:39:37:19 - 00:39:59:07

Luna Matatas

Oh yes, yes, yes they can find it at freely toys.com or on my website at Luna tortoise.com and the straps that so it's harness compatible. You can use it with like any strap on. My favorite strap on is a thigh harness. I love strapping it on my thigh because using your lower back in like a thrusting kind of motion when you don't normally do that, it's hard.

00:39:59:07 - 00:40:05:02

Luna Matatas

I'm lazy. A lot of stamina, you know, but a thigh, you got more power in your thigh. It just looks hot, right?

00:40:05:02 - 00:40:07:15

Luna Matatas

Like it's like, you know, it's so good.

00:40:07:17 - 00:40:21:05

Luna Matatas

And I think even in terms of accessibility, if you've got bad knees or bad back or something, a thigh, someone could sit on it. And then you get all of this like close contact, cut skin contact kind of stuff. Yeah. So lots of harness options other than pelvic harnesses.

00:40:21:11 - 00:40:34:10

Luna Host

Oh that's great. Also because I went to like try on a pelvic harness for the first time and I was like, this doesn't suit me. And I have like a body that like was created for fit models. Like everything off the rack fits me, you know, like and so I'm like, what the fuck is happening here? Like, where is this supposed to look?

00:40:34:13 - 00:40:50:11

Luna Host

You don't see it? Well, it just squeeze me. Maybe I'm just too, since I really like it, but I felt like it was, like, too high and too low and maybe about to fall off at the same time. And I was like, talking to the person. I think the person helping me wasn't that educated and or also was just like trying to sell me into a custom made something, something.

00:40:50:11 - 00:40:55:16

Luna Host

But I had, you know, it was like, I don't have a lot of experience wearing strap on other than like, you know, shorts, harness.

00:40:55:16 - 00:40:56:13

Luna Matatas

So, okay.

00:40:56:18 - 00:40:59:00

Luna Host

Thigh strap, I think is in my.

00:40:59:00 - 00:41:00:00

Luna Matatas

Nature.

00:41:00:02 - 00:41:03:16

Luna Matatas

I know I'm gonna send you my blog article all about harnesses and then you can read it.

00:41:03:16 - 00:41:04:18

Luna Host

The perfect one for you person.

00:41:04:19 - 00:41:06:08

Luna Matatas

I believe in this for you.

00:41:06:10 - 00:41:13:16

Luna Host

I love that. I fucking love that. What's up? Is there anything else you're super excited to explore in your work? Like that's pretty fucking good. But anything else you want to share?

00:41:13:16 - 00:41:32:21

Luna Matatas

Yeah. So this one I feel so shy about because I've been like cooking it for two years and I really want to put it out there. So in addition to kind of doing the the in-person intensives, I would love to have a community of people that we just have our own space. And so it's not censored, it's online.

00:41:32:21 - 00:41:54:06

Luna Matatas

You can pop in whenever you want, but our commitment is to working on our erotic liberation to ourselves and body freedom. So breaking all the body bullshit and actually just feeling like, okay, so somebody called you ugly or you don't feel beautiful or whatever, come to the community, we're going to love you up, and then you get to go back out into the world.

00:41:54:06 - 00:42:11:21

Luna Matatas

So I really want to create this ongoing community. It just requires a lot of resources. So I'm trying to clear my plate so that I can launch it and try it, and just invite a space where, you know, we're not going to get censored by Facebook. We're not going to have to feel that there's a giant commitment of learning, that we're doing learning together.

00:42:11:21 - 00:42:15:21

Luna Matatas

I'm learning as they're learning, and I get to lead as they're learning.

00:42:15:23 - 00:42:17:14

Luna Matatas

That is I know what.

00:42:17:16 - 00:42:20:12

Luna Matatas

I'm talking about. It makes me like, like sparkly inside this.

00:42:20:15 - 00:42:34:10

Luna Host

You know, we bring it into existence. I'm so excited, I can't wait. I mean, like a love incubator, like. Yeah, yeah, we need. I mean, if we have that, like, in every major city, I mean, that's the type of stuff where I'm like. And then if there could be a, like, sex museum above or down below, maybe that's in the dungeon.

00:42:34:10 - 00:42:40:22

Luna Host

That's the type of stuff that I'm always thinking about. I'm like, I need a creative space mixed with a sex museum. And then the play spaces there. Okay.

00:42:41:00 - 00:42:41:14

Luna Matatas

I hope you just.

00:42:41:14 - 00:42:43:18

Luna Matatas

Manifested that, because that sounds mean.

00:42:43:20 - 00:42:45:08

Luna Host

I'm working on it. Hi. I'm a.

00:42:45:08 - 00:42:48:15

Luna Matatas

Working. That's my big dream.

00:42:48:17 - 00:43:02:03

Luna Host

Okay, so if you could wave a magic wand and teach everyone in the whole wide world something about sex or pleasure or whatever you wish, what would it be? It doesn't have to be one thing. Like, what would you stick straight into our brains? Hearts?

00:43:02:05 - 00:43:16:00

Luna Matatas

I would say that orgasm doesn't have to be the goal of sex. And so orgasms happen. Sometimes they happen sometimes they don't happen. Great. Sometimes you want one to happen. Like when I'm going to sleep buzzing one out. I want the orgasm to happen.

00:43:16:02 - 00:43:19:02

Luna Matatas

You know? But I think.

00:43:19:04 - 00:43:45:19

Luna Matatas

Exploring our bodies in solo pleasure or partner pleasure, if we let go of the goal of orgasm, it let go of a lot of performance pressure to get anywhere. And I think it opens up more opportunities to discover things like, this level of pleasure. Actually, I want to hover here. And so doing things like edging, doing things like maybe coming down, touching maybe everywhere except your hot spots.

00:43:45:19 - 00:44:08:03

Luna Matatas

And some of that feels like with your partner bringing back making out, you know, like making out like half clothed. I think even for men and people with penises, the fact that sex ends after the penis ends is silly. It doesn't have to my partners that I play with. It does not happen like that, that we can keep going because orgasm is not the final thing.

00:44:08:08 - 00:44:11:21

Luna Host

Yeah, yeah, it's not the finale. The curtain doesn't close. We can keep playing.

00:44:11:21 - 00:44:15:09

Luna Matatas

Until I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:44:15:11 - 00:44:28:03

Luna Host

I love that too. You know, I had a partner that like, I met through work stuff. So we're in these, like, work settings together, being very appropriate in certain situations where I'm like, pretending I don't know, I'm really being a photographer, but, like, you know, not letting.

00:44:28:03 - 00:44:29:02

Luna Matatas

Anyone be.

00:44:29:04 - 00:44:44:07

Luna Host

Really honest, but, you know, standing next. And I realized that I was having all these fantasies about, like, licking all over their body and, you know, all of these things. And then when I'm with them in person, I'm like a magnet to the genitals and the hot spots. And I was thinking, I noticed that, and I was like.

00:44:44:13 - 00:44:53:15

Luna Host

And I talked about it with them. They're like, do the other thing then. And I was like, well, that means I have to be less patient, or you have to tell me so I can remember, you know? And so that's just something I clocked for myself.

00:44:53:18 - 00:44:56:01

Luna Matatas

Oh my gosh, that's a good observation. Yeah.

00:44:56:01 - 00:45:09:16

Luna Host

Yeah. It was like a, you know, because it's all the buzz. But it's like I'm never going to actually like lick my tongue up and down every single part of their leg just because I'm like, we might not have that much time together. I have to like, do everything, you know. So there is even I feel that pressure to, you know.

00:45:09:16 - 00:45:15:00

Luna Host

Yeah. As much as I'm like, it's not about orgasm, I'm like, but I like putting my mouth on the genitals, you know, I am.

00:45:15:00 - 00:45:33:15

Luna Matatas

Yeah, absolutely. And I work with a lot of parents and they don't have a lot of time. And they're like managing little humans. They live in a house full of people. So there's like a pressure to have sex regularly. There's like, I got to do the sex. And that is such a buzzkill for people. And so I often recommend, you know what?

00:45:33:15 - 00:46:08:19

Luna Matatas

If you just commit to, like, a three minute kiss at night and so you just make out before you go to bed, and then if it leads to sex, it leads to sex. If not, you're going to go to bed feeling connected. You're going to feel soft, you're going to feel hazy. And it's great to think I can feel that non-sexual affection without it having to lead to sex, without me worrying about how long it is or if a kid's going to come in or this or that, or I think there's just so much more reward around pleasure, relaxation, intimacy, connection, you know, feeling your own body, sleeping better, like whatever.

00:46:08:19 - 00:46:36:15

Luna Matatas

There's there's all these kinds of relaxation that comes to our nervous system. And for folks who have also dealt with sexual trauma there, the pressure to orgasm is is often such a buzzkill from what's happening in their body. And I think a lot gets talked about for women who take longer to get aroused. And I actually think that men's bodies can have that also heightened power, even in their orgasms or without their orgasms.

00:46:36:15 - 00:46:44:23

Luna Matatas

If we engage more of their body and because our thought this idea for men around like, right, like we just got this idea that like the D is the.

00:46:44:23 - 00:46:46:00

Luna Matatas

Only.

00:46:46:01 - 00:47:00:20

Luna Matatas

Thing that like, matters during sex, like, men have necks, they have like years, they have all these other hot spot nipples, you know, bums, backs, all these kinds of things that I think the way we think about male sexuality has just like, afforded, you know, afforded all of those opportunities. Totally.

00:47:00:21 - 00:47:15:13

Luna Host

Yeah. That the narrative that it's like guys are easy, you know, and it's like just income doesn't mean that like, give me a fucking minute and don't rush and let me play with your thigh creases and fuck with you for a while and you will get harder than you've ever gotten. Is the report that I've gotten from a few partners recently.

00:47:15:13 - 00:47:23:03

Luna Host

You know, like. And not that that's the goal. It's not about how hard are you? Because, let me tell you, I can come on a soft cock. It's really hot. And that's like my new.

00:47:23:03 - 00:47:25:07

Luna Matatas

Favorite this year, too. I'm like, yeah.

00:47:25:09 - 00:47:44:04

Luna Host

You know, but I love what you're saying about, like, just really prioritizing that pleasure. And, like, for me, those situations you get like that turns into, like a big simmering edging that eventually when we do get the three minutes without a kid or whatever it is, then boom, we have like a week of buildup that's so hot and it's all pleasure oriented.

00:47:44:04 - 00:47:46:17

Luna Host

So I love that you're offering people that, yes.

00:47:46:19 - 00:47:47:07

Luna Matatas

Damn.

00:47:47:08 - 00:47:51:07

Luna Matatas

Yes. You described it so well. Yeah. That bubbling, that rising. Yeah.

00:47:51:09 - 00:48:06:15

Luna Host

Are there any other like sex related stories or observations that you have? Like, I feel like there's always wisdom and knowledge that professionals have that maybe I just don't even know the questions to ask. So like if I should have asked you a question and didn't like what else is in your like, treasure trove of wisdom?

00:48:06:17 - 00:48:08:00

Luna Matatas

Yeah, I think one of the.

00:48:08:00 - 00:48:27:21

Luna Matatas

Biggest misconceptions that people come to my classes with is that if I just kind of like, you know, around especially around kink, I think kinks one of them. But even BJ's or Ipsy like, damn, if I just learn the skill then I will do the thing and it will be perfect. And what I like to bust for people is that.

00:48:27:23 - 00:48:30:00

Luna Matatas

Awkwardness is.

00:48:30:02 - 00:48:31:05

Luna Matatas

Always there.

00:48:31:07 - 00:48:32:14

Luna Matatas

You know, like.

00:48:32:16 - 00:48:52:17

Luna Matatas

There's not something that goes away. It's just kind of part. I actually think Auburn is is so cute because I think it's authentic. I think someone's kind of in there little like something's happening for them. They're not branding themselves. And I think it's such an opportunity. And so people always want to eliminate that. They want to look like what we see on TV and that it's not hot.

00:48:52:17 - 00:48:58:09

Luna Matatas

I mean, what we see on TV is so scripted. It it's very it's for entertainment. And we're not supposed to learn.

00:48:58:09 - 00:49:15:01

Luna Host

In their bodies. I'm in the entertainment world. I'm trying to teach actors how to do romance scenes. I'm like, that's not what you know. And I and I relate to that because I'm people projects that onto me because also I look graceful and long. They're like, are you a dancer? And I'm like, no, but I will trip over myself four times a day, especially if I'm turned on, like in bed.

00:49:15:01 - 00:49:16:17

Luna Host

I literally get tangled in my limbs.

00:49:16:22 - 00:49:17:15

Luna Matatas

Right?

00:49:17:17 - 00:49:34:18

Luna Matatas

You know, like your body is just what your body is. It's going to do what it's going to do, and we just want to be there to support it. So I think a lot of times people will tell me I can't be dominant or I can't be submissive or I can't do this thing because I feel like it's going to be awkward and I don't know how to start it.

00:49:34:18 - 00:49:52:13

Luna Matatas

And I'm like, good. Start with awkward. Like, you can't come in at a level ten. I don't even come in at a level ten. You know, you got to start somewhere around the one. And once that dopamine starts flowing, that adrenaline, it's also going to shift your mindset. And so you're not actually going to be as concerned about like how does this look to my partner.

00:49:52:14 - 00:50:14:13

Luna Matatas

You're going to be zoning in on oh, is this getting the response that we both wanted? Are they like sinking into their puddle. And then I can sink into my puddle, you know, so I think there's such a focus on sex being so serious. I think silly is sexy. I think playfulness is sexy. And I think playfulness is like the antithesis to performance.

00:50:14:13 - 00:50:26:13

Luna Matatas

If you can get playful, you will forget about performing. Like, I don't care if I'm good or bad in bed. I care about having an experience that's mutually pleasurable. So yeah, I'm not here to be.

00:50:26:13 - 00:50:27:12

Luna Matatas

Like, look at my deep.

00:50:27:12 - 00:50:34:00

Luna Matatas

Blowjob skills. I'm like, no, like, are we going to connect? Maybe your cock not hard today. Maybe I'm not super wet today so we can still connect.

00:50:34:02 - 00:50:47:14

Luna Host

That's fucking rad. Oh my god. Okay, if you had an unlimited budget to build a sexy playroom, house, castle, incubator, etc. for yourself, what would it be like?

00:50:47:16 - 00:50:54:02

Luna Matatas

Oh my gosh, this is so such a good question. So first I'm going to have a masturbation room.

00:50:54:04 - 00:50:55:15

Luna Matatas

What would that be like.

00:50:55:17 - 00:50:59:06

Luna Matatas

So it's the walls are going to be so practical. So I don't have to.

00:50:59:06 - 00:51:00:10

Luna Matatas

Route through.

00:51:00:12 - 00:51:17:18

Luna Matatas

My friggin box of toys, you know. And I already have like I had to build things on the wall for my butt plugs. Like, I want more space to display all the beautiful toys. And I have all of, like, the vulva puppets, all kinds of gorgeousness, lots of plants. It's going to be very like, you know, goddess welcoming.

00:51:17:18 - 00:51:25:08

Luna Matatas

And then of course, next to the the master. I would need, some sort of like a snack room. Right. We're going to need some kind of like, oh, my God, I'm.

00:51:25:08 - 00:51:28:14

Luna Host

So glad you said that. I'm tired of going to play parties that don't have snacks.

00:51:28:16 - 00:51:31:08

Luna Matatas

Me too. Or they put out things like chips.

00:51:31:08 - 00:51:32:05

Luna Matatas

I'm like, who wants.

00:51:32:05 - 00:51:34:06

Luna Matatas

To have salty sweat and jizz?

00:51:34:10 - 00:51:35:02

Luna Matatas

Or like.

00:51:35:04 - 00:51:37:14

Luna Host

Strawberries? I'm like, only strawberries. What?

00:51:37:19 - 00:51:39:11

Luna Matatas

I'm hungry for a watermelon.

00:51:39:12 - 00:51:41:03

Luna Matatas

Oh, yeah. Or cheese or something?

00:51:41:03 - 00:51:43:15

Luna Matatas

Yeah, nuts. It's lovely.

00:51:43:17 - 00:52:03:19

Luna Matatas

But yeah, I think having a more sensual relationship to food has also changed. How I feel about my body has changed. Letting go of what diet culture has taught me and really just thinking into like, oh no, like eating is a sensual experience. You can feast in a central way. So yeah, I want a very decadent snack room and then a dungeon.

00:52:03:19 - 00:52:20:00

Luna Matatas

I got to have a dungeon. Like we got to play a fully equipped dungeon. I want all the furniture. I want things that, like, are all accessible. I think it would be amazing to have a space where everyone can come in. Then I would love a luxury. Kind of like orgy room.

00:52:20:02 - 00:52:22:08

Luna Matatas

Yeah, there's just like.

00:52:22:10 - 00:52:34:02

Luna Matatas

Beds covered with blankets and like, there's lube and like, hot music and good light, like very textured. Right? Like feeling like, oof, like everything I touch is sexy or sensual.

00:52:34:04 - 00:52:34:16

Luna Matatas

That is.

00:52:34:16 - 00:52:53:09

Luna Host

Fucking beautiful. Lovers. You can find Luna on the internet at Luna tortas.com and also on Twitter, Instagram and TikTok at Luna matata spots loo and a matta tas and the links are in the description below. Luna, thank you so much for being a guest on Sex Stories.

00:52:53:11 - 00:52:56:20

Luna Matatas

Oh my gosh, thank you for having me and I can't wait to come to your sex play mansion.