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33 white genderfluid trans person, poly-ish, intimacy coordinator.

🔗 MIA LINKS | linktr.ee/consentwizardry / consentwizardry.com / @consent.wizardry

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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:19:20

Luna

Our guest today is a 33 year old white, genderfluid, trans polish single person. They are into armpits but cuddling all night and they turned their dating profiles into a song, which you can hear at the end of this episode. A consent educator and intimacy coordinator from Los Angeles, California. Welcome, Mia Schachter.

00:00:19:22 - 00:00:21:21

Mia

Hi. Thank you for having me.

00:00:21:23 - 00:00:34:07

Luna

I'm so excited. So if you have to rate yourself on a sexual shaming meter with one being completely shameless and ten being so full of shame, where do you fall? Right now and when? If ever, does it fluctuate?

00:00:34:09 - 00:00:57:01

Mia

I think like a two okay or like a 1.5 or I guess one because zero is an option. I sometimes say stuff and then I'm like, oh, well, maybe that was like recently told my parents that I was listening to, not even about me. I was listening to a podcast about poop friends and, you know, the history of like, shame around poop.

00:00:57:05 - 00:01:16:22

Mia

And then I was like, I now have friends who get paid to poop on other people. And they were like, okay, like pushed me out. It's like, right? I have to remember, like where I, where I am because that pretty much to your question like doesn't fluctuate. I'm open to talking about this stuff kind of with anyone at any time.

00:01:16:22 - 00:01:19:21

Mia

And I have to kind of sometimes remember my audience.

00:01:19:23 - 00:01:27:11

Luna

Have you always been that way, historically speaking, or has it changed and is it related to your work and is it the same in your personal life?

00:01:27:13 - 00:01:55:11

Mia

I think as an adult, I've pretty much always been this. Like once I started having sex, I've pretty much always been this way. Okay. But I feel like I do what I do the way that I do it, because I am this way. One of my superpowers, I'd say, is like being able to have really complex conversations or like conversations about really complicated things in a way that's like very simplified and like approachable and accessible.

00:01:55:12 - 00:02:30:15

Mia

And I think that's apparent in like, the way that I talk about a lot of consent stuff. I write like I speak, I don't use a lot of like, flowery language, and I'm able to take like pretty complex ideas and concepts and like distill them and then explain them in ways that are like really easy to digest. And I feel like when it comes to sex and stuff, there's a similar thing, but then it includes a way of like, and this is like, I think a really valuable asset as an intimacy coordinator that I can talk about things that generally are stigmatized or like can make people feel very uncomfortable in a way that is

00:02:30:15 - 00:02:40:16

Mia

pretty casual and down to earth and kind of get us out of that stigmatized mindset around it, just make it feel very comfy and casual.

00:02:40:18 - 00:03:00:18

Luna

That's fucking beautiful and such a skill, and I hope to absorb as much as possible from you in this conversation, because I actually think I have the opposite gift of like taking something very, very simple. And then just like thinking about it so deeply that it, like, winds into the whole wide world. So that's really cool, which is, you know, it has its own merits.

00:03:00:18 - 00:03:09:10

Luna

I get a lot of I call it noodling out, like I think about stuff out loud together. So, okay, you mentioned being very single. What is your sex life like right now though?

00:03:09:12 - 00:03:27:08

Mia

Well, currently I'm having more sex than I've had regularly in a long time, which is still very little. But enough to remind me that I'm a person in a body and I feel pleasure and I get to feel sexy feelings. Yeah.

00:03:27:10 - 00:03:28:20

Luna

What would your ideal be?

00:03:28:22 - 00:03:51:14

Mia

My ideal. I mean, I really am looking for romantic and sexual partnership. Someone to, like, build a life with. I'm a cancer. I have multiple cancer placements, and I've dated, but I haven't been in a relationship with any kind of, like, consistency. Like going on five years. And I think as we back up, like I'll explain the context for that.

00:03:51:14 - 00:04:05:04

Mia

But in terms of like frequency of sex, I mean, I like to have a lot of sex. So I think like ideally it would be like every day or every other day. I'm also like my dream of dreams is to like wake up next to someone else every day.

00:04:05:06 - 00:04:11:13

Luna

Okay. Yeah. Big cuddles. What would you say you love most about your sex life right now as it's happening.

00:04:11:15 - 00:04:35:07

Mia

I think I've found myself like having sex with friends again in a way that I did a lot in my 20s, and it felt really nice and I thought I was like, kind of done with that. I guess, because I was really dedicated to finding, like, a partner. And by that I mean like someone who really wants to, like, do life with me.

00:04:35:09 - 00:04:57:17

Mia

Yeah. And then I found myself sleeping with someone in New York who I like a lot and care a lot for. And we have really good chemistry, but, like, they're not going to be that person. But like our sex is really fun. And then I'm also sleeping with someone a little bit occasionally in Los Angeles. And like that's another situation where I'm like we're friends.

00:04:57:23 - 00:05:16:21

Mia

And it's really nice to get to do this with you. So that's been fun. I think like what I like most about my sex life right now is that it's kind of like opening me up to more dynamics in which being sexual feels good to me. Amazing. That's awesome.

00:05:16:23 - 00:05:23:03

Luna

Okay, this is a new question. I've never tried on anyone but what I call noodle fresh, so we might fix it or noodle through.

00:05:23:03 - 00:05:25:15

Mia

Or through the spaghetti at me and see if it sticks.

00:05:25:15 - 00:05:48:19

Luna

I use the term noodles to keep people from thinking I'm being judgmental and like I have an idea. I'm like, no, I'm just noodling. And sometimes it's fresh noodle dough, sometimes it's a pokey uncooked noodle, sometimes really? Well, this one's just past the dough stage. How? If you could put it into words, would you say sex meets your social intimacy and or connection needs?

00:05:48:21 - 00:06:13:05

Mia

Oh, for a long time now, I think I've understood sex as like one of my many artistic mediums. It feels like a mode of self-expression and very creative. That's like now on my dating app and didn't make it into the song. Oh, okay. There needs to be a second song. Probably now. Yeah. At this point. And I also think of like, creativity as a form of connection.

00:06:13:05 - 00:06:19:15

Mia

And that's like an idea that I got from Kate Tempest. Book on connection, which is like, I've read it three times in two years. I really highly.

00:06:19:15 - 00:06:23:11

Luna

Recommend. Oh, I love it. Is it just called connection? Who is Kate on connection?

00:06:23:11 - 00:06:38:03

Mia

On connection K Tempest Kate either a British spoken word poet and musician trans person and they wrote this beautiful book, almost like a creativity manifesto.

00:06:38:05 - 00:06:45:11

Luna

I need to read this because I go around being like, sex is our original creativity. What are we doing? We got to do our creative stuff.

00:06:45:13 - 00:07:13:17

Mia

Yeah. And they talk about creativity as connection. Like, that's what it is. Whether it's passion with yourself or connection with others or connection with, like, source or anything like that. I really like that idea because I've thought of sex as like a medium for artistic self-expression or co-creation. Yeah. Yeah. Co-creation. And I think, like at periods of my life when I have not had sex for long periods of time, mostly due to illness, it's like not just that my body's kind of offline.

00:07:13:17 - 00:07:22:10

Mia

It's like I'm like, missing this artistic channel. It's like it's shut off and it impacts like my other creative worlds.

00:07:22:10 - 00:07:28:05

Luna

Same until I figure out how to get, like, regular doses of sex in safe ways.

00:07:28:05 - 00:07:35:02

Mia

I was going pretty crazy. Yeah, it makes me feel really, like, dulled. Everything kind of goes gray. Wow.

00:07:35:06 - 00:07:42:18

Luna

Okay, so when you're having sex, you have those needs met. What would you say your best qualities are as a lover?

00:07:42:20 - 00:08:11:19

Mia

I've been told this is like a really sweet compliment. Once that I'm very graceful when I'm intimate. Like really lovely. I think intimacy has been like a through line in all my work. And even when I'm not consciously going for that, I mean I think I'm almost never consciously going for that. And yet it's like feedback that I get over and over, you know, whether it's my music or my writing or plays I've written or anything that I do creatively intimate is a word that comes up a lot.

00:08:11:21 - 00:08:34:23

Mia

I think I'm a bit psychic. So, you know, obviously I teach consent and I like really value verbal communication. But I really love that point where you've gotten permission and kind of at a point with someone where like, you know, what's okay and what's not okay, and you can kind of just flow with it and like, really be creative.

00:08:35:00 - 00:08:44:12

Mia

And then I get to be psychic. I can often feel my experiences and I can feel what they're feeling. And that can be yeah, really cool for both of us.

00:08:44:13 - 00:08:49:00

Luna

That is so cool. Okay, so here's a question just for you, which is a little off topic.

00:08:49:05 - 00:08:50:03

Mia

00:08:50:05 - 00:08:57:04

Luna

But it came up in your song so much I just would love to hear. What does it mean to you to be in love.

00:08:57:06 - 00:09:24:00

Mia

I think like I know that I'm in love when there's a certain kind of like the other person is like transparent to me in a certain way. I can see them really clearly again, like in a way where I start to feel like I can read their mind and that sort of psychic feeling is present a lot. I think there's a feeling of connection.

00:09:24:02 - 00:09:43:02

Mia

I mean, I think I feel these things like to a degree in all of my close relationships. But when I'm in love, I think it's like a certain depth of it or like a hue that it's sort of turned out like a, you know, saturation or something where it's like just up really high. And then I feel very seen.

00:09:43:02 - 00:09:54:21

Mia

Also like I feel that that person really sees me and like can see what I feel and like what is true for me.

00:09:54:23 - 00:10:12:13

Luna

Beautifully said. Thank you for sharing that. I've been really wondering this a lot lately because I myself am trying to figure out what romance is and what love is. I'm learning that I'm not truly not driven in either head or heart by a lot of the things that drive other people, like what I feel is connection is different from a lot of people.

00:10:12:13 - 00:10:31:12

Luna

I think this is what I'm deeply researching, and I've been wondering about it because sometimes I walk around and I'm all by myself, but I feel I'm like, wow. I'm so I feel like in love with existence or the world. And I mean, in a very grounded way. And I'm like, but does this count as love? I don't know, do I need another person to be in love?

00:10:31:13 - 00:10:42:22

Luna

Sometimes I think, yes, I'm like, or is it just my relationship with everyone? Everything. We are one. I don't know. But. So anyway, I've just been noodling on it a lot, especially in a romantic context. So thank you for sharing that.

00:10:43:00 - 00:10:57:18

Mia

Yeah, I'm with you there. I think I find myself, like, in awe all the time of just like, flowers. Like, what the fuck? We get flowers that just, like, pop up all over and they look like that, you know.

00:10:57:20 - 00:11:01:10

Luna

And they open up to say hi, and then they go to sleep and close at night.

00:11:01:12 - 00:11:20:15

Mia

Yeah. And they're like, part of this thing that's larger than themselves, you know? And then I'm in awe of, like, my animals. And I'm in awe of like, I mean, we get sunsets and. Yeah, yeah, I just I mean, I really do like, walk around so often, you know, I hear those people say about like, you know, stop and smell the roses.

00:11:20:15 - 00:11:37:20

Mia

And I'm like, I do all the time. Like just I went on a walk this morning and I was like, whoa, you know, we're surrounded by things that are just so incredible all the time. And it's really easy to dwell on things that are so horrible. So I do feel that sense and I feel that oneness and that connection.

00:11:37:22 - 00:12:03:19

Mia

This also relates to illness. I sort of truly found that on and like sense of oneness through illness, and returned to Judaism several years ago. I feel that like with the world around me, I feel it with myself too, like I've done a lot of work on, you know, my relationship with me. And like, I am able to really feel that sense of like, I love this person a lot, like very, very much and very deeply.

00:12:03:22 - 00:12:26:12

Mia

And I think there's also that feeling that I can have with someone who I also feel like romance and have sex with. And I'm a person who wants a family and like a home and someone to do that with me for like more than just practical reasons, though, the practical reasons are getting more and more appealing also. Oh, absolutely.

00:12:26:13 - 00:12:36:03

Luna

So what does it look like when you invite a partner to have sex with you? Or give us the menu of options, like how does someone know that you want to get it on?

00:12:36:05 - 00:12:50:22

Mia

I mean, I'm usually very direct. I'm usually like, do you want to get in bed or like, do you want to go be horizontal with me for a bit or do you want to roll around? You want to go feel each other and like I'm like just really straight to the point.

00:12:51:00 - 00:12:57:00

Luna

I love it. Okay, so now what is sexy to you and when do you feel sexiest?

00:12:57:02 - 00:13:23:09

Mia

Someone who I've been sleeping with, I don't know, we were just sort of having this conversation where, like, there's this job that's like online and, you know, sexting remotely type of job for sex workers. Before I knew what it was, I was like, oh, I might be interested. And then I found out it was that. And I was like, well, fuck, because I think that what I think is sexy is, like, not generally working for like, most other people or people looking for that kind of thing.

00:13:23:11 - 00:13:45:20

Mia

Because I feel like laughter is so sexy. Like, if someone can make me laugh, can I get turned on? I get turned on from, like, mental stimulation. So, like, a really good conversation will do it for me. Like, as I said, tree conversations and my song, like, it feels like every conversation you have is like, all part of the same conversation.

00:13:45:20 - 00:14:09:04

Mia

It's just all kind of like, branching out, like, that'll turn me on. I've like, gotten off the phone with someone where we're just talking about whatever. And like, then like, I have to masturbate. Also, I don't know, like, goofiness, silliness, like good food. Yeah, like wholesomeness, like all that stuff. Feeling really cared for and nurtured. Feeling really safe.

00:14:09:04 - 00:14:31:01

Mia

Feeling really comfortable. Like all that stuff makes it really easy for me to get turned on and makes me feel sexy myself. Like if I can be really comfortable, you know, I wear a lot of baggy clothes. Like I love getting in sweatpants. I've started being like, it's socks and Crocs o'clock. Like, we're just, you know, full relaxed mode.

00:14:31:04 - 00:14:39:21

Mia

Like, that's when I feel really sexy and when someone else is, like, turned on by my comfort, I feel very sexy.

00:14:39:22 - 00:14:43:15

Luna

I love that, and what counts is sex for you.

00:14:43:17 - 00:14:59:00

Mia

That's a good question. I mean, that's something that I've been kind of trying to figure out and like, as a queer person is kind of it's almost like it's like depends on not only what I think is sex, but like what the other person thinks is sex. Because if they think we had sex, then who am I to say we didn't have sex?

00:14:59:00 - 00:15:16:04

Mia

You know, like if kissing for them is sex, then like, yeah, who am I to say that? That's not what happened, you know? I mean, I've definitely expanded my definition of sex to include, like, I don't know, like my favorite kind of sex these days is like, we keep our clothes on and just, like, drive home each other, like, like teenagers.

00:15:16:04 - 00:15:42:06

Mia

I mean, not that clothes on. Yeah, that's something that, like, I think when I was younger, I thought no one else would be into. And so I would kind of like, steamroll through my own comfort and boundaries and like, now as a 30 something, I'm like, this is the cutest thing. This is my favorite. We can just, like, roll around and make out and like, grind on each other.

00:15:42:08 - 00:15:55:05

Luna

Amazing. I love that. Can you give us an example of a sexy, explicitly clear yes that you have either given or received that led to something super hot?

00:15:55:07 - 00:16:23:11

Mia

Well, so with that partner, you know, loosely defined in New York on our first day, we were talking and sort of like leaning closer and closer and closer, and I could tell that they wanted to kiss me. And I just was like, do you want to kiss me? And they said, yeah, I love that. Yeah. And then we, like, got so hot and heavy at the bar that the bouncer was eventually like, are you okay?

00:16:23:13 - 00:16:37:11

Mia

Kind of to just sort of be like, I think you maybe need to go home now. And we were like, yeah, we're good. And then we did go home. I think that was the night the clothes stayed on and it was super hot. Amazing.

00:16:37:13 - 00:16:41:16

Luna

Do you feel comfy sharing what your health and safety conversations with partners are like?

00:16:41:18 - 00:17:02:16

Mia

Yeah, there's like a funny thing that happened recently in that realm with that same person, which was that I went back to New York like a month or so later and brought a bunch of toys for us, and it was so easy for me to be like, I just got tested and my results came back negative. How about you?

00:17:02:17 - 00:17:25:03

Mia

Like, super easy. And then when I brought up the toys, I got like all giggly and nervous and awkward. So I was really struck by the contrast of being able to be like, here's my health info. But I also brought these like, funny, you know, like purple dicks for us. I just couldn't I couldn't do it.

00:17:25:03 - 00:17:31:19

Luna

Do you think they make more purple dicks and other colors? Because I feel like people talk about purple ones the most, and I see that. I see many colors.

00:17:31:19 - 00:17:56:08

Mia

I also, by the way, hate the color of purple silicone. Like, why is there only one color of purple silicone? I can't stand this shade. It's a very specific shade and purple's my favorite color. And I hate this purple, but the majority of my sex toys are that terrible purple. Because when I go to the store and they're like, sorry, we only have it in this horrible purple.

00:17:56:10 - 00:18:01:07

Mia

And so I take it, I don't know why they're all purple.

00:18:01:09 - 00:18:19:14

Luna

Is there other stuff you get shy? Like, I keep laughing because I'm like, I talk about sex all the time. I literally facilitate sexual conversations and discussions and openings up for other people literally daily. But then I still have these moments where, like, I recently made a partner list of things that I wanted specifically for that partner for the first time.

00:18:19:14 - 00:18:24:11

Luna

And I like, went into a vulnerability like giggle fit and was like, I'm shy.

00:18:24:12 - 00:18:42:22

Mia

Oh yeah, but you did it. I did it then. Yeah. I mean, there's also something like really lovely about that feeling of like giggly awkwardness, you know, like, oh, this is like telling me something about how I'm feeling. But I mean, that giggly awkwardness, like, I get that singing that song that I sang and you do. Oh, yeah.

00:18:42:22 - 00:18:43:11

Mia

I mean, I never.

00:18:43:11 - 00:18:44:03

Luna

Would have known.

00:18:44:05 - 00:18:58:08

Mia

That's part of what that song kind of is about for me, in terms of like, its purpose is like to practice saying it and like meaning it and not being super awkward, like, this is what I want. Is that okay? Okay.

00:18:58:13 - 00:19:06:08

Luna

Is that part of being in love and or romantic like that discomfort, or do you think? No, it's like the titillation because it's sort of thrilling.

00:19:06:10 - 00:19:08:09

Mia

Yeah, I think so.

00:19:08:11 - 00:19:17:19

Luna

Do you have moments of suddenly like driving up to the person's place or whatever? I don't know, and then suddenly wanting to just like leave and run away, but then you don't notice me.

00:19:17:21 - 00:19:43:20

Mia

Yeah. My own version of that, I'd say. I think there's times when I'm like, oh my gosh, what's going to happen? But I also have like a long history of getting, like, so nervous before a date that I think I'm sick, like, I think I'm going to throw up. And so I've learned that that's part of like my kind of faulty neuro section where I'm like, okay, I need to kind of push through it.

00:19:43:21 - 00:20:00:02

Mia

You know, it's like my body's telling me that this isn't safe, but like, my higher self is like, no, this is safe. And I can show you and I'm going to like, hold your hand through this and you're going to be okay on the other side. And then maybe you'll learn a little bit that it's so like it happens less now, but it's still there.

00:20:00:04 - 00:20:06:11

Mia

I've been dating for, you know, 16 years and I still get nervous on first dates. Wow.

00:20:06:12 - 00:20:24:16

Luna

I don't get nervous until at the end of a first date, and then I'm like, oh fuck, we went on a date. Now all the other things have to decide and it's not true. I'm evolving ever. But okay, tell us now. Did you ever get a helpful sex education, an explicit health and safety talk lesson from an adult you trusted, or a lesson in consent when you were growing up?

00:20:24:18 - 00:20:45:07

Mia

No, I think the closest thing that I got to that was like listening to Tristan Terminus podcast and Dan Savage's podcast when I was in my early 20s. I mean, maybe I did, and I don't remember, but I'm fairly certain I never did. I mean, I remember learning about consent, and it was just kind of like if someone says no, stop.

00:20:45:09 - 00:21:02:06

Mia

And also that that was something that I wouldn't have to worry about from that side as a, you know, quote unquote girl. But like, I would have to worry about someone not respecting my. No. And that, I think, creates this like really dangerous and harmful binary in consent education.

00:21:02:08 - 00:21:19:22

Luna

Yes. And a very unhelpful paradigm for horny people and bodies like mine. Yeah. I think like I literally grew up being told that it would be so easy if I wanted to fuck, that I could just go out and get picked. And my whole personal story is about rejection and just getting rejected because I didn't have the social finesse to get it.

00:21:19:22 - 00:21:36:12

Luna

Yes, a lot. Even though I was like, you know, eager and cute enough. So now take us through your sexual timeline starting at the very beginning. What do you remember hearing? Feeling, thinking, remembering first when it comes to sex and what were your formative experiences?

00:21:36:14 - 00:22:06:00

Mia

Yeah, I think like the early years were like, you're going to have to protect yourself basically. Yeah, like, be careful and you might get raped. I was like kind of the way that the messaging install told in this hard drive or whatever. I remember learning what sex was pretty young. I mean, I think older than many actually. Like I think I was like 8 or 9.

00:22:06:02 - 00:22:23:06

Mia

And, you know, I just thought it was gross. Like I was like, why would you do that? And like, why do you have to do that to make a baby? That seems like a lot of trouble, if I remember correctly. Like it was sort of dropped at the end by my mom, like, and sometimes people do it to feel good.

00:22:23:08 - 00:22:48:11

Mia

And I was like, what? Like, what do you mean? And then I was like, I was kind of a late bloomer. I didn't get my period until I was 14. And a lot of this, I think, does relate to, like, the health issues that I've mentioned. I was like very small and I looked very young for, I mean, I still look pretty young for my age and a lot of this stuff, it felt out of reach for a long time.

00:22:48:11 - 00:23:16:06

Mia

Like I was like curious about like, sex and romance and dating at 14, 15, 16, but wasn't really doing much of it until college. And then the first time I had sex, I was a freshman in college. It was with someone who I didn't really care much for, but I like wanted to care. I guess I was like, you know, on paper this person is great, but I just like wasn't really feeling the feelings, but did it anyway.

00:23:16:08 - 00:23:36:04

Mia

Then I did experience a sexual assault that was like very damaging. I didn't recognize it as assault for like ten years. Yeah. Like I just sort of thought that what happened was like, normal. And then like, the anger that came after from him was also normal and was probably my fault. And so then I didn't have sex for a while, like a year and a half.

00:23:36:10 - 00:24:03:03

Mia

Then I had a boyfriend who I really learned to enjoy sex with. It was like quite an awakening, I'd say. Our sex was like very playful, very exploratory, and really fun. That was like a pretty short relationship. And then I had a boyfriend after that. I've, like been clear dating for some time, but my like most significant relationships have been with people who identify as cis men or did at the time.

00:24:03:05 - 00:24:19:02

Mia

It wasn't until a few years ago that I was like, I'm really putting intention to like, not dating, since men. I describe it as like, if I don't actively swim against the current, like that is what will come my way.

00:24:19:04 - 00:24:20:16

Luna

Oh man, I feel you so hard.

00:24:20:16 - 00:24:30:12

Mia

Yeah, yeah. And so it was like it was a very conscious decision, like three years ago now where I was like, okay, I'm committed to like actively swimming upstream, you know.

00:24:30:14 - 00:24:35:05

Luna

That first boyfriend where you said you were like having fun and stuff? What age was that for you?

00:24:35:07 - 00:24:37:17

Mia

I think I was 21. Okay.

00:24:37:17 - 00:24:39:11

Luna

Okay. So like college ish.

00:24:39:12 - 00:25:00:20

Mia

Yeah. Yeah. I think like one of the big epiphanies that I had in the relationship that was my longest and like most significant relationship was but stuff. I was dating someone at 23 and he was really into but and like I think before that my understanding of like men who are into butts is that they just want to stick their dick in your butt.

00:25:00:22 - 00:25:21:16

Mia

I was not aware that they liked stuff in their butts and that there's like other things you can do with butts. So it became this thing where, like, he really wanted to eat my ass. And I was like, what you'd want to do? What? Like that's something that you want to do. Like, not just because you think it'll feel good to me, but because you actually want to do that.

00:25:21:18 - 00:25:41:00

Mia

He was so stoked about that. And then he was like, unbelievably stoked that I wanted to do that to him. And then, you know, like fingers and butts and it was like, this huge awakening for me about this, like, whole other realm of sex that I had not. I had just learned, you know, being perceived as a woman.

00:25:41:00 - 00:25:54:05

Mia

It was like, you know, men are going to want to put their dick in your butt, and there's nothing in it for you, I guess was like kind of the way that I understood it. And like, if you want to be cool, you got to let him put his dick in your butt. And I was sort of like, why?

00:25:54:05 - 00:26:05:12

Mia

What? Like that's. So I didn't get it at all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah, he really opened up that whole, so to speak, that whole world to me. So I'm very grateful to him for that.

00:26:05:13 - 00:26:18:18

Luna

That's amazing. Although I come from the land where, like, butt stuff is just a loophole, you know, like you're still. Oh right. So but that's the benefit. Damn. Wow. Wait, so that was how early 20s, mid 20s, would you say? It's like.

00:26:18:18 - 00:26:23:15

Mia

Yeah, I was 23 when we started dating and then we dated on and off for like six years. Okay.

00:26:23:17 - 00:26:41:13

Luna

Have you had like partners who are into. But since then because I had a partner like I was always trying but stuff. But then when I had a partner that was like really into it, I was like, oh yes. And then since then I've only had like 1 or 2 people casual, like, I'm not a big casual but stuff person yet I don't know for you.

00:26:41:13 - 00:26:59:17

Mia

What's your no feelings stuff for me like the biggest surprise for me about but stuff was that it's like the most intimate to me. Like it's so intense, it's such an intense sensation and like, there has to be so much trust there for me that, like, it's not something that I do quickly or casually. Okay.

00:26:59:18 - 00:27:09:21

Luna

I have done it quickly and casually with other partners that were like buds. And then it worked out fine. But it's just interesting because, like, I totally I totally hear you on the intimacy.

00:27:09:21 - 00:27:38:15

Mia

Yeah, well, what I'll tell you in like when you first asked me to be on the show, I was like, oh, we're probably going to get to this, which is that I dated my boss at one point. And like the way that that kind of ended was like one too many fucking times. He stuck a dry finger in my butt, even though I had asked for him to use lube, like over and over and over again and like the first time that we ever made out, he, without asking, stuck a dry finger in my butt.

00:27:38:17 - 00:27:57:02

Mia

So yeah, like didn't ask to touch my butt in the first place and then didn't use any kind of lube whatsoever. And I was like, that's weird. Like, must have been an accident, right? Then it happened again, and then it happened again. And I was like, hey, like, you got to use lube like buttholes don't self lubricate.

00:27:57:02 - 00:28:12:10

Mia

Yeah. Would you would know if you ever touched your. Yeah. If you ever touched your own. But like, you would know this you know. Yeah. But he just did it again and again and again. And it was like this weird thing where like, we even hired a sex worker. I don't know, should we go here? Why not do.

00:28:12:10 - 00:28:20:13

Luna

This? Okay. Wait. I want to insert and just say, I know some people that like, dry stuff in their butts because they're into pain and sensation, and it's not the place to do it.

00:28:20:13 - 00:28:22:02

Mia

Okay, you got to talk about it.

00:28:22:04 - 00:28:30:20

Luna

What do you know with a partner? Definitely. But because they are into it themselves, they don't necessarily. But I'm like, no, those micro terrors are real. Deal. So you got to be careful.

00:28:30:22 - 00:28:33:15

Mia

I mean, I think this guy just had no idea what he was doing.

00:28:33:19 - 00:28:36:10

Luna

Yeah, yeah, it sounds like it. But you hired a sex worker.

00:28:36:15 - 00:28:42:21

Mia

Yeah. So his idea was to hire a sex worker to tell him what to do to me. I loved this idea. I was like, yeah, that sounds great.

00:28:42:22 - 00:28:44:18

Luna

Super, dude. My kind of sex.

00:28:44:18 - 00:29:06:07

Mia

And I will just say yes. I'm like, yes, please bring it on. She was a friend of mine. Or I said to him, you know, like I had this friend who I'd be really comfortable doing this with. So I called her and I was like, look, we're not in love. Like he's married. They're open. Like, you know, this is not a situation in which, like, I want you to ask us to, like, gaze into each other's eyes and, like, tell each other we love each other.

00:29:06:07 - 00:29:27:14

Mia

Like, please. None of that. However, I need you to know I do like a finger in my butt, but he has been sticking a dry finger in my butt despite my asking him to use lube. And it's drive me crazy and I just wanna make sure that doesn't happen. She was like, I got you like, don't worry. And I was like, okay, great.

00:29:27:14 - 00:29:54:23

Mia

So we get to it. She guides him to go down on me. She guides him to put a finger in my vagina and get it super wet. And then she guides him to, like, move it over towards my butt and whatever this like mental block was for him. He interpreted that as that he should use his other hands, which was like physically impossible.

00:29:54:23 - 00:29:58:22

Mia

Like he's like propping himself up on his elbows, like he can't.

00:29:59:00 - 00:30:06:05

Luna

Well, maybe he was just backwards because you do have to be conscious if you're going after pussy, you know, I don't know. Damn.

00:30:06:08 - 00:30:31:10

Mia

And he had already gone as to pussy. And I was like, why are you doing this? Like, do you not know what A is so and not that day. But like that was a thing that I had to talk to him about. By the way, this was a man in his 50s. Yeah. Anyway, so then he tries to use the other finger and I reach down and with like as much kindness as I can muster in that moment, I like take the hand that's like currently inside me and I'm like, with this hand.

00:30:31:12 - 00:30:52:03

Mia

And then he uses that hand. And then the next morning he like, I mean, there were a lot of things of this dude that were just like kind of really weird and out of whack in terms of consent, like it just wasn't really like happening. And he wanted me to dom him. But the way that he was going about that was like by intentionally pissing me off.

00:30:52:05 - 00:31:12:23

Mia

Yeah, it was a mess. But anyway, he woke me up the next morning by going down on me, which also was a thing that we had never agreed was okay. And then he told me, tell me what to do to you. And I was like, I'm like asleep. Like I just came to, okay. Like, I'm not in a position to be, like, telling you what to do, but like, okay, so then I'm telling you what to do.

00:31:13:01 - 00:31:31:15

Mia

And then despite it not being what I told him to do, he starts to go towards my butt with a dry finger and I screamed lube like at the top of my lungs. And he said to me, I love it when you're angry or I love it when you scream at me. I don't remember exactly what he said.

00:31:31:17 - 00:31:49:11

Luna

That sounds like the type of submissive I've encountered who truly just gets off on boundary pushing. Yeah, and there's a certain type they're not about they're not a set. They're not a real submissive. They are just they're just a boundary pressure. And that's a lot of people's unconscious kink. Dan, I'm so sorry that your butthole was exposed to that.

00:31:49:12 - 00:31:51:15

Luna

Wow. How long ago was this? Have you recovered?

00:31:51:15 - 00:31:52:09

Mia

Ivan, what did.

00:31:52:09 - 00:31:55:00

Luna

You do to take care of yourself? Did you have support?

00:31:55:02 - 00:32:12:00

Mia

So that was it for me. Like that was like when that happened, I was like, this isn't happening anymore. Like I'm done. Yeah. And so that was like the last time that we slept together. But, you know, it was like the kind of thing where, like, I was 27, you know, I felt like fully in my agency the entire time.

00:32:12:02 - 00:32:30:00

Mia

And because it was like, so clearly like this person being an idiot. Yeah. It didn't feel traumatizing or, you know, it was violating, but it didn't feel like the kind of thing where I was like, you know, internalizing anything at all. It was just kind of like, fuck you.

00:32:30:02 - 00:32:44:09

Luna

Yeah, it sounds like you were consciously going through the like, no, like this. No. Like this. No. Okay. You're out. You know, like, yeah. I was like, you were like walking through the process, watching it happen, just hoping it would get better, but damn. Okay. So let's balance that out with a little bit of like, what is your body love?

00:32:44:09 - 00:32:50:21

Luna

What are your favorite asshole things? Like what sensations do you get over how you had gasm like take us to your favorites.

00:32:50:23 - 00:33:14:14

Mia

Gosh, okay, I am feeling a little bit of that fluttery like vulnerability thing I feel, because this feels very, I don't know, like revealing. Okay. One of my favorite things to do with someone that I am really, really like, connected to and feel very, very safe with is to have them like put a finger in my butt just while we're making out.

00:33:14:16 - 00:33:19:12

Mia

Oh yeah, like just that, because it kind of just makes me completely melt.

00:33:19:18 - 00:33:20:17

Luna

Just your butt?

00:33:20:18 - 00:33:47:16

Mia

Yeah, just my butt. And then they can put a finger in my pussy also, eventually. Or I will or will touch my clit or whatever, because, like, I can come like that and it's like, really? It's actually one of the ways to like, tap into your parasympathetic nervous system. You're like rest and digest nervous system is to have a finger in your butt and you can feel it, you know, if you feel safe and if you like it, your whole body will just sort of melt and feel so incredibly relaxed.

00:33:47:16 - 00:33:53:21

Mia

And so I feel totally, yeah, held and like, just like, you know, that.

00:33:53:21 - 00:34:13:19

Luna

Time I do know most of the time when people say, you know, I don't know, but I really. I want to keep knowing details. But I also actually at this point would love to fill in. When did you start like learning about consent at a level to teach it and intimacy coordination? And then when did you know that you were genderqueer?

00:34:13:19 - 00:34:15:16

Luna

Like, how did that all evolve?

00:34:15:18 - 00:34:36:14

Mia

Yeah, I think it's like all kind of intertwined. I think before I had the language, I had a sense of being genderqueer for a good portion of my life. It's like things now I look back and I'm kind of like, oh, maybe this was part of it. Like I didn't really like dolls. And I kept getting dolls because I thought I was supposed to, and then, like, not playing with them and like, wondering why.

00:34:36:14 - 00:34:52:06

Mia

And all my friends are playing with them. And Sporty Spice was my favorite Spice Girl and like, you know, dumb shit like that. But then people would mistake me for a boy and I liked it. I think that was like the thing that now I look back and I'm like, oh, well, that's significant.

00:34:52:08 - 00:34:56:04

Luna

But do you remember what you liked about it? Like, what was the feeling of that? Like.

00:34:56:06 - 00:35:13:13

Mia

It must have been a sense of like feeling seeing or like feeling like I have a secret or something. Oh yeah. Like, I would smile and kind of, like, giggle a little bit. I think I cut my hair really short in high school and was kind of like, oh my gosh, like, this is what I'm supposed to look like.

00:35:13:13 - 00:35:42:22

Mia

Like, there I am. Yeah, I remember in high school describing myself as a gay boy and like, not really knowing what I was, say, you know, like, now I look back and I'm like, oh yeah, like because you're trans. But at the time it was more like, haha, isn't that funny? And then I think there were things later in college like once they started having sex, that at the time I thought like, oh, this is just misinformation.

00:35:42:22 - 00:35:59:16

Mia

That's like told to women such as like, if you have sex with someone, you'll fall in love with them. And like, I was like, that's not my experience. Therefore, am I not a woman? Or like, we got to stop telling women that. And I don't think that women fall in love with people just because they're having sex with them.

00:35:59:16 - 00:36:20:03

Mia

I think that's bullshit. But it certainly got me kind of starting to think about like, well, what is true? And then everything started to kind of unravel. I took a philosophy and feminism class in college, and I was volunteering at the Blue Stockings bookstore in New York and starting to meet trans people and gender queer people and like, started to learn about they them pronouns and stuff.

00:36:20:05 - 00:36:50:16

Mia

And I think it mostly felt like it just was something that I understood so easily and quickly and I remember reading, but I still wasn't like applying it to myself. I remember reading Eileen Myles book Chelsea Girls and hearing them talk about being mistaken for a man like, quote unquote mistaken and how much they liked it, and thinking like, wow, this is like the closest I've ever heard anyone describe something like what I experience around my gender.

00:36:50:18 - 00:37:08:08

Mia

And then in 2019, I started training to be an intimacy coordinator. The way that I happened was that I was writing a movie with a friend about an intimacy coordinator, and then I, a show I was working on hired one, and I asked to interview her because I was writing this movie. And then at the end of the interview, I was like, this is the perfect job for me.

00:37:08:09 - 00:37:11:14

Mia

Like, I am primed for this,

00:37:11:16 - 00:37:15:14

Luna

I'm afraid of you. Tell me about it. I'm going to want to go out and do that too. And I'm like many things.

00:37:15:18 - 00:37:21:20

Mia

Well, now I'll tell you, I would not recommend it to anybody. I steer as many people as well as in a way from.

00:37:21:20 - 00:37:25:00

Luna

Great. I'll just stick to making adult content.

00:37:25:01 - 00:37:42:14

Mia

Yeah. But so okay. So so then I met an intimacy coordinator. She ended up training me. That was when I started to learn about consent in like this sort of full body like ongoing more comprehensive way. Part of what I had to do for that training was I had to go to a dungeon and we did like a consent 101 and then a flogging 101.

00:37:42:16 - 00:38:04:00

Mia

I remember just feeling like my brain making all these connections and learning about trauma and learning about like, whoa, it makes so much, you know, for I had any experience with like Bdsm or kink, I was like, those people are freaks and they like to hurt each other. Like, what the fuck? And you know, and it's not inaccurate.

00:38:04:01 - 00:38:21:14

Mia

It's not inaccurate. There's just a different tone. Right? And then it's like, oh, of course, if you're going to do that with someone who you care about or like are invested in their well-being, you have to be able to create a container in which that can happen really safely. And I was dealing with all these health issues also.

00:38:21:14 - 00:38:44:03

Mia

I got my diagnoses. You know, I equate the Bdsm kink thing to like my experience in the punk scene, which was only tangential, like via people that I was friends with or dating, and it was like I had always felt like, oh, that's like a really angry bunch of troublemakers as, like as a kid. And then, you know, in college and later in my 20s, it was like, actually half of them are vegan, straight edge people like a love nerd.

00:38:44:05 - 00:39:09:12

Mia

Maybe they all have cats and like, they're all like, really sweet, soft spoken people that have really healthy outlets for their anger of like, how amazing is that? But so I got my diagnoses for like lifelong health stuff as I started training for an intimacy coordinator, like within a few weeks. And so as I was learning about like health and trauma and consent and like how to heal my body, it was all intertwined.

00:39:09:12 - 00:39:27:02

Mia

I was learning about how to listen to what my body was saying to me, how it was communicating with me. I really had to repair the trust that had been broken by, you know, capitalism, white supremacy, patriarchy, blah, blah, blah. Tell my body to just shut the fuck up and suck it up and like, eat what everyone else can eat and be fucking normal.

00:39:27:04 - 00:39:49:23

Mia

You know, like I'm a loser because I have to spend so much time in the bathroom after drinking a beer or whatever, like, and then you know, having this, like, complete overhaul of realizing like, oh no, my body has certain needs. They're different from a lot of other peoples. And like, we're going to learn to talk to each other again so that was how I got into consent and learning about consent as an intimacy coordinator.

00:39:49:23 - 00:40:10:12

Mia

Immediately my feeling was like, I have to bring this to as many people as I possibly can fucking like. Beyond the entertainment industry. Like, I just want to spread the good word of consent because this shit is changing my life so fast in such positive ways. Like, I just need to share it as widely as I possibly can.

00:40:10:12 - 00:40:14:23

Mia

And then that became, you know, the consent was your account. And like the work that I do now.

00:40:15:01 - 00:40:27:15

Luna

Fuck yes, I fucking love that. Is it possible to give like a three point highlight of what you want to bring to people most? Or is it better to just direct them to your work right now? I would love to direct.

00:40:27:15 - 00:40:48:06

Mia

Them to my work, but I think there's points that probably set my work and consent apart from other people's work and consent in terms of like what my specific interest is within that field. It's mostly about consent with yourself, which I think is like not often how we're taught consent. You know, it's a way to relate to other people and to make sure you treat them well.

00:40:48:08 - 00:41:16:20

Mia

But we're not so much being taught that. It's also a way to get to know yourself and know who you are, and then make sure that not only are other people treating you well, and that you're treating other people well, but that you're treating yourself well. That's one. I think the second thing that I'm finding that I talk about in my work a lot, and I'm kind of like in a moment in my work where I'm sort of going back to art and like merging my art practice with my consent work.

00:41:16:22 - 00:41:48:04

Mia

Is that consent with myself that way and creating that sense of internal safety has led to such a boom in my creativity. I feel safe to fuck up. I feel safe to make dumb shit. I feel safe to like, you know, try and fail and try again. I know because I've seen it time and time again that like, if I just practice enough, my body will learn and I will no longer have to think about it.

00:41:48:04 - 00:41:58:18

Mia

So I almost never have that feeling anymore of like, oh, I'm too old to like start this new thing. I'm like, if you just do it enough, like, yeah, you'll get better at it, but kind of can't not, you know.

00:41:58:20 - 00:42:08:21

Luna

Well, here's a question, okay. That first one consent with myself. To me, it sounds like there's a relationship between being clear on my boundaries and needs for myself. Is that all those part of the ingredients?

00:42:08:23 - 00:42:10:23

Mia

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Cool.

00:42:11:01 - 00:42:14:21

Luna

What about do you think the word consent is difficult for some people to hear? Like how do you.

00:42:14:21 - 00:42:36:15

Mia

Explain it to people. Yeah, it is really hard for people to hear it. I mean, this is something that I am dealing with in all areas of my life. Like I have a speaking agent who's hardly been able to get me any gigs because when he brings up consent to pitch me, people are like, oh, we already did our sexual harassment training, or oh, we already had Tarana Burke.

00:42:36:17 - 00:42:43:13

Mia

And I'm like, what? Like because what happens is that you say consent and people feel accused and they go on the defensive.

00:42:43:14 - 00:43:00:16

Luna

Exactly what I was asking. Yeah, yeah. So I wonder yeah. Are there other words that you've used or frames to explain what it is? Because I've been to so many play parties or just sex positive, queer friendly spaces and I consent, you know, consent is important. And and you all got to get consent. So just make sure you're consenting.

00:43:00:16 - 00:43:00:22

Luna

And I'm.

00:43:00:22 - 00:43:01:12

Mia

Like.

00:43:01:14 - 00:43:11:10

Luna

Could you guys each just like, give us some like concrete practical guidelines and I'm not you don't need to do that here for us. But it just in spaces I'm like guys can we do some definitions.

00:43:11:13 - 00:43:14:13

Mia

Right. But like what does that mean. Or like how do you actually do it. Because it's always.

00:43:14:13 - 00:43:15:17

Luna

How you want it to show up here.

00:43:15:17 - 00:43:46:12

Mia

Yes. And people conflate consent with permission. So when they say like, you know, ask or get consent, they're really talking about get permission. And consent is like a way broader, larger thing that is really a practice and like a way of relating to yourself and to other people, a way of like attuning to not just verbal communication, but nonverbal communication, asking, checking in about like, what does that nonverbal thing mean when you do it?

00:43:46:17 - 00:44:13:16

Mia

And then also like knowing that about yourself because like a giggle can mean completely different things to different people. You know? You know, for some people it's their fun response. And for some people it's like, I'm having a really good time. So being able to like, not only know that for yourself, but be able to communicate that to other people, ask them to like, you know, when we first started doing this, you were looking right at me, and now you won't look at me like, what does that mean?

00:44:13:19 - 00:44:31:22

Mia

Because for some people it means stop. For some people, it means I'm distracted. And for some people it means I am like enjoying this unbelievably, you know, and I think when you start to bring in neurodiversity into the equation, it's like you really have to learn what each of these like. It's an individual thing, you know, it doesn't mean the same for everyone.

00:44:31:22 - 00:44:51:20

Mia

Yeah. When you look away or when you break eye contact, or when you make eye contact, like it's going to mean different things for every single different person. I talk about that a lot with enthusiasm, too. Yeah, like your enthusiasm is going to look different for my enthusiastic and someone else is enthusiastic. And so it's not just enough to be like, make sure they're enthusiastic.

00:44:52:00 - 00:45:01:07

Mia

And also like, if you're requiring me to be enthusiastic, but I've never done the thing before. Like, you're kind of getting in the way of me being able to try new things.

00:45:01:09 - 00:45:14:21

Luna

Right? And then we get into the definition we use of enthusiastic in both the specific context of, like the phrase enthusiastic consent and enthusiasm within a scene or play session or whatever, you know, and it's a bunch of there's a bunch of stuff.

00:45:14:23 - 00:45:19:22

Mia

So I kind of lost the what was the question? Oh, like, how do I explain what it is? Yeah.

00:45:19:22 - 00:45:39:01

Luna

And you gave us a great relational framework of consent as an ongoing conversation. So for me, I'm really big into reframing instead of don'ts. Anytime someone's like, don't be like this or like, you know, if you're like, I'm just reframing and what the do looks like. So for me, my takeaway from your conversation, it is do continue to talk to your partners.

00:45:39:07 - 00:45:57:02

Luna

Also just stay updated. You know, it's funny, sometimes I talk to people who've been together for a minute and they're like, well, I know what the other person likes. And I'm like forever though, like, and yeah, you're and you're in their brain as they change. And like for some people that that is their mutual experience. And I've definitely met and spoken with and been with couples where I'm like, yep, you are that in sync.

00:45:57:04 - 00:46:00:16

Luna

And then I, you know, I know enough to know that that's not most people.

00:46:00:18 - 00:46:01:01

Mia

Just.

00:46:01:01 - 00:46:20:07

Luna

From my personal experience. In which case, I would love to actually get back to some of your personal details, because we haven't talked about armpits or cuddling specifically, when did you discover that you were like into armpits and like, how is it for you to, like, tell partners that, like, are you ticklish? Is it your armpits? Is it their armpits?

00:46:20:07 - 00:46:22:03

Luna

Is it all of it? Like tell us.

00:46:22:05 - 00:46:45:17

Mia

Well, okay, so for all of his like dumb mastery and putting a dry finger in my butt, that guy did teach me that. I love having someone put my foot in their mouth. And I also love when someone makes out with my armpit, like, he did that. And I don't even think I'm pretty sure that he had said that he like, had never done that with anyone else, but just sort of like felt like I would really like it and then did it and I was like, well, yeah, I really like this.

00:46:45:18 - 00:47:04:09

Mia

Oh yeah. I mean, I think there's something really intimate obviously about like something that we're sort of taught is gross and someone else is like really into it and like wants to, you know, lick it and touch it. And so their face in it like, that's amazing. But also just the sensation is incredible. I'm like really, really sensitive to touch.

00:47:04:09 - 00:47:13:21

Mia

And I am ticklish. But something really amazing happens when I really, really trust someone and really safe with them. Is that I am no longer ticklish.

00:47:13:23 - 00:47:22:07

Luna

I have a similar thing where my ticklish shyness will go away when I hit a certain point of arousal. And then other points. It ramps up way high. So.

00:47:22:11 - 00:47:33:00

Mia

Oh interesting. Yeah. So mine is like if I feel a certain amount of like trust with someone and I think it's part of like the psychic thing because you know how like you can't really tickle yourself.

00:47:33:02 - 00:47:38:15

Luna

Sometimes I accidentally have when I hit myself in a funny way. But normal or impossible? Not on purpose.

00:47:38:17 - 00:47:57:21

Mia

Yeah, well, it's kind of like I'm now experiencing this. Like, from your perspective. And so you can't tickle me anymore. And, you know, if you touch me, like, lightly, even then, I mean, the ticklish ness just completely goes away. But, yeah, like, someone making out with my armpit is like, I'm in fucking heaven. It's just incredible. Wow.

00:47:58:02 - 00:48:10:06

Luna

What about your other pressure points on your body, like genital or otherwise? Like, what else brings you just great, delicious joy? It sounds like physical touch in general, and judging by the cuddling, like extended physical touch.

00:48:10:08 - 00:48:45:16

Mia

Yeah, I sleep really well when I'm being quite old. I mean there's like some erogenous zones that I've discovered like more recently that sex worker taught me about the sort of space like where my leg meets my crotch. Like that area, like I had my vulva mapped by a psychological body worker and like learned that really like the whole outside like and this is like something that a lot of people I've found, you know they like zero in on the clit like I like surface area like cover as much area as you can't.

00:48:45:16 - 00:48:50:00

Luna

I'm like touch all of me before you get there and then touch it again.

00:48:50:02 - 00:48:50:05

Mia

Yeah.

00:48:50:07 - 00:48:56:08

Luna

Before, during and after we go back. So you got you have to vulva mapped by a sex. What a sex.

00:48:56:08 - 00:48:58:09

Mia

A logical body worker giving me things.

00:48:58:09 - 00:48:59:13

Luna

To add to my research.

00:48:59:17 - 00:49:05:18

Mia

Damn. Okay. Damn. That's probably something that would interest you more than intimacy. Coordination. I mean.

00:49:05:18 - 00:49:09:03

Luna

All of it. We can we hear why intimacy coordination sucks. I'm just.

00:49:09:03 - 00:49:30:15

Mia

Curious. What I have found is that in this field that was created to combat abuses of power in the entertainment industry is itself like abuses of power are running rampant within the field. There's a lot of people trying to make a lot of money off of it when there's like, not enough work for the intimacy coordinators that there already are.

00:49:30:17 - 00:49:58:01

Mia

I started a training company and ended up leaving that training company for a slew of reasons. But one of them being like, I didn't feel good about trying to help people get into this field where there's still so much resistance to intimacy coordinators that can be really traumatizing. Like, I have a significant amount of trauma that I'm still working through in like therapy and eMDR because of people who have made it extremely clear that my position was not welcome on their set.

00:49:58:03 - 00:50:12:13

Luna

That makes sense to me. Just with my history as a regular world producer and my experience like as an erotic photographer and filmmaker, I'm like, that's an expensive job for you to do correctly, right? I would imagine.

00:50:12:15 - 00:50:38:05

Mia

Yeah. But there's just people who feel like we're there to babysit them. Or again, the consent thing, it's like, if I'm there, it means that you've done something wrong. And so you need to defend yourself. And then within the field itself, like there's people really abusing their power. And, you know, like self-proclaimed consent and like power dynamics experts who are engaging in, like, very coercive practices to make money.

00:50:38:07 - 00:50:53:22

Luna

Okay. Well, that sounds like the rest of the world. Yeesh, we really need to do our own work to make it sexier and more loving. Okay, so what is a sexy, logical body worker and how do I find one and get my vulva mapped? Do they look at it with their eyeballs, or do you like send a picture?

00:50:54:00 - 00:51:13:05

Mia

No, they touch it. They map it with their fingers and they teach consent. They like build safety and trust with you over time and then begin to incorporate touch. And then if you want to, they can map your vulva. And she literally like, you know, did it with her fingers and then like took notes. And I have like a physical map of it.

00:51:13:07 - 00:51:16:20

Luna

That sound the wild. What did you learn about your vulva?

00:51:16:22 - 00:51:25:19

Mia

That I'm sensitive like all over the whole thing. Like it's not just like my clit. It's like I'm like, super sensitive all over my. What is it? The outer labia. Yeah.

00:51:25:19 - 00:51:46:07

Luna

I mean, also, like most people I touch love just getting petted and. Yeah, just a massage around there. I've been really into massaging like hips and that joint lately because most people hold so much tension there and then just making sure to like go around but not getting anyone but and warning them that I'm not going to go in their butthole without permission, but just playing with all the skin and the muscles there.

00:51:46:08 - 00:51:47:04

Mia

00:51:47:06 - 00:51:51:21

Luna

What else is important for us to know about your like sex life or sexual experiences.

00:51:51:23 - 00:52:02:13

Mia

Well the thing that I keep kind of circling around that I feel like is really relevant is that like after I figured out what was going on with my health and went through like really extensive treatment and started to get better, I shot a TV show.

00:52:02:13 - 00:52:02:16

Luna

In.

00:52:02:16 - 00:52:24:13

Mia

Mexico, and my health started to decline over the next three years. And this was like basically from the beginning of the pandemic until last summer. And so all these doctors were like, you know, your stress, drink more water, you know, do this liver cleanse, like take these herbs. Are you meditating like that? Kind of, you know, gaslighting that we get a lot from the medical community.

00:52:24:13 - 00:52:57:21

Mia

And it was a lot of like these old problems have just returned. And then July of 2022, I had like a week of violent illness and then shit out a tapeworm. Oh, shit. Yeah. So my sex life went dark for like two and a half years. Not entirely dark like I did date. And there were a few people that I had sex with, and, you know, I was, like, able to enjoy it, but it was, like, not the same body that I had remembered.

00:52:57:21 - 00:53:19:00

Mia

And I was like, wow, is this just, you know, my 30s, like my libido is dwindling, like it's really touch and go, you know, I think this is just like my life is just like dealing with this kind of illness and, you know, having to warn people that I may have to cancel the last minute. Like, I was driving to my friend's house once and I had to pull over on the side of the freeway to barf.

00:53:19:02 - 00:53:40:06

Mia

You know, I started getting migraines. Like, I took my vitamins one day and puked. I, like, couldn't sleep, I had insomnia, I was like just a shell of myself attempting to, you know, quote unquote, be normal and like, date and have sex and stuff, even like after the not after the pandemic, we're still in a pandemic, but like, I just don't like post-pandemic.

00:53:40:06 - 00:53:58:19

Mia

I feel like we're just dealing with Covid forever now. But like Post-vaccine, I'll say even post, like being able to get tested regularly and starting to feel like, okay, like I could date I didn't have the energy, like mental, emotional, physical energy to like go out and meet people and connect. It was really hard. It was very sad.

00:53:58:19 - 00:54:13:19

Mia

And then discovering that it was all because I had had this worm living in me. I'm now I feel like a totally different person. I'm like the healthiest I've ever been. And my musical is about this summer of discovering I had this tapeworm.

00:54:13:21 - 00:54:14:07

Luna

Wow.

00:54:14:07 - 00:54:19:19

Mia

Yeah. And the tapeworm comes out, and then it's a puppet on stage with me. Yes.

00:54:19:19 - 00:54:21:16

Luna

I am so here for it. Yeah.

00:54:21:17 - 00:54:26:01

Mia

So that's that's the musical that I'm working on. I'm making art out of this, like, horrible thing that happened.

00:54:26:01 - 00:54:26:15

Luna

Beautiful.

00:54:26:15 - 00:54:45:17

Mia

But, yeah, like, in terms of my sex life and I think about like, wow, I've, I haven't been in a relationship or I haven't consistently had sex in my life like I want it for. Yeah. Going on five years, but like two and a half those years, I mean, a there was a pandemic and B like I had an alien living inside my body and sucking up all my energy and nutrients.

00:54:45:19 - 00:54:50:22

Mia

Wow. So you are in a whole new era. Yeah.

00:54:50:22 - 00:54:56:10

Luna

So what are your hopes for your sex life going forward? I want lots of sex.

00:54:56:12 - 00:55:03:23

Mia

I want lots of playful, creative sex consistently. If I'm just like naming dreams.

00:55:03:23 - 00:55:13:06

Luna

Yeah, yeah, name all the dreams. And if there's any specific kinks you want to explore or like types of fantasies or types of partnership. I also I'm curious what polish. I think you said you're Polish.

00:55:13:08 - 00:55:28:07

Mia

Okay, well, I think when I wrote Polish, it was because, like, I'm not really dating anybody. Yeah, I have some like sex friends basically, but I'm not like I'm not in like partnership with anybody in any kind of committed way. So it's like funny to say that I'm poly when I'm like not in a relationship.

00:55:28:07 - 00:55:30:02

Luna

Okay. But so low poly vibes for now.

00:55:30:07 - 00:55:58:10

Mia

Sure. You're thinking a low poly. Yeah, yeah yeah, that sounds right. I really do want someone who wants to, like, build a life with me. I'm a fan of commitment. I want to, like, grow with someone in a long term way. I do want kids, and I want to, like, build a home with someone. And to me, that's like also the person that I want to be having, like consistent, regular, fun, creative sex with.

00:55:58:16 - 00:56:21:09

Mia

And then I think I also dream of like a life where I have a lover in every city that I frequent and like, I think there's like kinds of sex that I want to explore. I've been interested in, like group sex. I'm interested in like play parties, and I'm very much aware that I'm a person who, like, has the capacity.

00:56:21:09 - 00:56:46:12

Mia

And it's very likely that I'm going to, like, fall in love with multiple people over the course of my life. It's important to me that I get to explore that, including physical intimacy with them and sex. And I don't really believe in like a hierarchy in the sense of like prioritizing anyone's needs over anyone else's. But I also do very much see myself like with someone like a nesting partner and someone who's co-parenting with me.

00:56:46:14 - 00:56:54:17

Mia

You know, for all the barking of traditionalism that really is like present in my life, there's like that desire is really there.

00:56:54:19 - 00:57:11:20

Luna

And we're always both right, no matter how traditional we look. In some ways, like, I'm a blond haired, blue eyed farm girl. But that's not an accurate description of me. Do you know what I mean? Like it's like, and and it's still true. And I want to have as many gang bangs as possible and, like, fuck the world and, like, you know, and, like, probably not.

00:57:11:22 - 00:57:26:06

Luna

I don't know, you know, like, maybe we'll see. Would you go back in time and give younger you a piece of sex advice? And if you would, what age or ages would you pick and what would you say? Fully knowing that time as it happened, it unfolded in this reality is perfect, but just for fun.

00:57:26:06 - 00:57:57:03

Mia

Yeah, in my 20s really. Like I was so afraid of being like a quote unquote tourist, you know, to the lesbians or whatever. And like that inner critic, like, you know, Terf was lesbian was like very present in my head, who was going to think that I was like using them to experiment or something like that? And like, as a result, I kind of shied away from really exploring what queerness meant to me.

00:57:57:05 - 00:58:11:14

Mia

And I think the advice that I would have really liked to hear back then was like, if you want to make someone feel good, you're going to figure out how to make them feel good, like body parts don't. It's whatever. Like you're going to figure it out. Yeah.

00:58:11:16 - 00:58:19:19

Luna

Is there anything else sex related that you would like to noodle on with me and or any questions that you want to ask me that are sex related?

00:58:19:21 - 00:58:25:06

Mia

Maybe, like, what advice would you give that younger version of me knowing what you know?

00:58:25:07 - 00:58:28:09

Luna

Ooh, knowing what I know about you. Oh, no one's ever asked me that.

00:58:28:12 - 00:58:40:21

Mia

Oh, well, not just me, but like that sort of figure. Like the young queer who's, like, afraid that they're not going to be good at whatever. What would you tell them? Oh, man.

00:58:40:23 - 00:59:00:11

Luna

Honestly, the reason I ask other people for advice is because I never feel good at giving it. Like, I don't ever feel like I have an opinion or no. And so I think like cop out. But really true answer is always like, just keep asking questions until you understand what's going on. But that has a lot of privilege with it.

00:59:00:11 - 00:59:17:22

Luna

Like, I'm in a human body where I've never been afraid to ask. I'm just like, but why? But why but why? And so I think, you know, then I would modify it to sort of just be like, trust your curiosity. I just want all of us to trust our curiosity and trust that if there's a desire there, a we deserve it.

00:59:17:22 - 00:59:44:09

Luna

It doesn't matter what it is. Assuming, I mean, well, then we get into complicated questions about do no harm unto others. But I believe that when we have a true desire, a desire that is planted within us, it's going to lead us toward an experience or a learning that is for our best growth and highest good. So I believe in following our curiosity, and if any of our desires ever have impulses that are harm related, we talk to other people about it and get this.

00:59:44:09 - 00:59:45:06

Mia

Fully.

00:59:45:08 - 00:59:51:19

Luna

Just to acknowledge all parts of that. Yeah, I'm still curious. Ask questions. Where can people find you on the internet?

00:59:51:21 - 01:00:06:13

Mia

I'm on Instagram at consent dot wizardry. I also have an art account called Mac Silver Makes Art. That's where my ceramics are and I'm moving my music over there. Also. And my website is content wizardry.com.

01:00:06:15 - 01:00:12:23

Luna

And links to all of those things are in our description below. Mia, thank you so much for being a guest on six stories.

01:00:12:23 - 01:00:33:15

Mia

Thank you for having me. This is great. I play music under the name Max silver, and I'm writing a musical, and this is like the opening song. Can you hear that? Oh yeah. Okay.

01:00:33:17 - 01:01:00:06

Mia

Just a nice Jewish boy. You can play too long for one from Stevie for passing. You're gonna feel so tangled up.

01:01:00:07 - 01:01:16:23

Mia

Like my ancestors now.

01:01:17:01 - 01:01:39:13

Mia

I want to spend as much of my life lit up as possible. And want to spend as much of my life in as possible.

01:01:39:15 - 01:01:54:18

Mia

I'll psychically whisper to. You while you're at work. No fear.

01:01:54:20 - 01:02:30:00

Mia

And scream. I see the yard mothership. So super fun time. Who doesn't wanna spend as much time as possible? I want to spend as much of my life in. Tulsa time.

01:02:30:02 - 01:02:43:17

Mia

I as number ten first people to know for sure. And you should leave all three conversations. I want someone.

01:02:43:19 - 01:03:10:17

Mia

All day sexting all the time. Will you sleep in my arms and tell you time to come out?

01:03:10:19 - 01:03:52:09

Mia

I want to spend as much of my life for us as possible. I want to spend as much of my life in my possible husband, my life. As possible, I want to spend as much of my life in my hospital.

01:03:52:11 - 01:03:54:20

Luna

Oh my God, thank you so much.

01:03:54:22 - 01:04:02:04

Mia

Thank you. I love thinking about like, how many people are going to listen to this episode and be like, I've seen that profile.

01:04:02:06 - 01:04:16:22

Luna

I love that, and I also just have to know now, like, where are you on dating apps? And like, how have those things gone? And have you gotten some of that, like because anyone written erotica about you.

01:04:17:00 - 01:04:52:14

Mia

Not since it was put on my profile. No I'm on a few dating apps. I'm on Field and Hinge and Raya and I'll tell you, you know this is like related to a lot of stuff that's been on my mind a lot recently, which is that as my kind of like visibility has grown and as my platform has grown, being on dating apps has gotten really complicated, especially because of like specifically what I do like, it's not like I'm, I don't know, an actor, like I am a musician, but that's not why people know me.

01:04:52:16 - 01:05:03:02

Mia

So I've matched with people who are like, I follow you on Instagram and your work has really helped me open up my relationship with my partner. And I'm like, that's great. I'm very single.

01:05:03:02 - 01:05:03:19

Luna

I feel you.

01:05:03:20 - 01:05:30:16

Mia

Yeah. Or people are like, you know, full disclosure, like big fan of your podcast. And it's nice, you know, it's very sweet and touching. But it also over the last several years has like created this sort of like, heart sinking feeling, because inevitably what happens is that they have a fantasy of me, like they have a whole relationship with me that predates this connection.

01:05:30:18 - 01:05:47:16

Mia

And then they bring all of that to our dynamic. And it is a power dynamic that is like nearly impossible to overcome. I say nearly because I have it's possible, but in a dating situation it's really, really challenging.

01:05:47:22 - 01:06:05:22

Luna

Yeah, yeah, I have not had any success translating someone from like, I mean, here's the thing, I can hang with a worshiper, but there's different levels of worship, right? Like there's there's a real kind of the oh man, dude, I'm so excited to talk to you. Okay. What a delicious introduction to you. Well, first of all, who's your cute kitty cat?

01:06:06:02 - 01:06:09:12

Mia

Oh, this is Lucy. Lucy, we love Lucy. Oh, we.

01:06:09:12 - 01:06:10:12

Luna

Love Lucy, we.

01:06:10:12 - 01:06:13:23

Mia

Love Lucy. It's dark for Lucifer, I love it.