227 | Go Until I’m Ugly: Cherie DeVille on Woo
- Luna Robbie
- Aug 25, 2023
- 45 min read
44 sex worker, in an emotionally monogamous and sexually open relationship, journalist, and sex work advocate, into: power play, cougar things and continuing her journey of sexual exploration on and off film.
🔗 CHERIE LINKS | @CherieDeVilleXO / @CherieDeVille / tiktok / OF
00:00:00:02 - 00:00:18:23
Luna
And our guest today is a 44 year old sex worker, journalist and sex work advocate who is ten years into an emotionally monogamous and sexually open relationship. She is into power play, cougar things and continuing her journey of sexual exploration on and off film. Welcome the internet step mom, Cherie Deville.
00:00:19:01 - 00:00:24:05
Cherie
That was an amazing intro. Thank you so much. I feel like really gassed up right now. Ready?
00:00:24:07 - 00:00:36:22
Luna
Well, I am very ready for all of your details. So could you start off by telling us if you had to rate yourself on a sexual shaming meter today, with ten being the most full of shame and one being totally shameless? Where do you fall right now?
00:00:37:00 - 00:01:01:08
Cherie
I would say maybe at the most a one, but that's not something new in my life. Like I wasn't raised with a lot of the like, religious background that I feel like feeds a lot of the shame in our society. Sexual exploration. So I was always, you know, open and enjoyed exploring and was never really shamed for doing that.
00:01:01:09 - 00:01:24:12
Cherie
I think there might have been a time, you know, in our teens where people were judging when you did or didn't lose your virginity. But other than that little blip, I haven't had the experience a lot of my friends and colleagues have had of, oh, you know, some religion saying don't masturbate or save yourself for marriage or a lot of those things that others have struggled with.
00:01:24:12 - 00:01:27:03
Cherie
I've gotten to sort of pass by, luckily.
00:01:27:07 - 00:01:36:07
Luna
Amazing. That's awesome. Can you tell us what sort of sex talk, sex ed or lesson in consent you got growing up? If anything you about was helpful.
00:01:36:09 - 00:01:57:23
Cherie
You know, that is actually a really interesting question. The last part of it just made me realize I never got any lessons in consent. You know, it's so important to me now, and it's such a a popular topic of conversation as it should be. But I don't recall my parents or any of my peers having that discussion with me.
00:01:57:23 - 00:02:24:21
Cherie
I mean, obviously everyone knew they didn't want to be assaulted, but between assault and, you know, perfectly consensual sex, there was absolutely no discussion. You know, even in my first sexual experiences, while I considered them unbelievably consensual and beautiful. I feel like we talked about consent, but not in any kind of formal way. It was more of a do you like this?
00:02:24:23 - 00:02:50:06
Cherie
Do you not like this kind of feelings? That's really interesting. I'm probably going to think about that a little bit further. And even, you know, as my nieces grow, I feel like that is an important part of everyone's sex talk. And I think for my parents, it wasn't as much of an explicit sex talk as a, you know, make sure that you're happy to make sure that you feel good about this person.
00:02:50:08 - 00:03:11:06
Cherie
You know, be safe. Of course, in terms of pregnancy was definitely a topic of conversation. There was an SDI conversation, you know, but I don't think anything as robust as what I would want to talk to my nieces about, you know, and even though my parents did a really good job, they were raised with a lot of sexual shame.
00:03:11:08 - 00:03:16:15
Cherie
So they had a really different experience than they were able to help me have, you know.
00:03:16:16 - 00:03:32:04
Luna
Totally. So it sounds like you had a lot of good pieces growing up, but also sounds like you were very good at like translating them into what sounds like it amounts to consensual relations for you. Can you tell us now what is sexy to you?
00:03:32:06 - 00:04:01:07
Cherie
I feel like that has changed and evolved so much over the years where, like, at this moment, I find vulnerable to be, like, one of the most beautiful and sexy things. Like when I feel like I can make an intimate. It doesn't have to be love. But when I feel like I can make an intimate connection with someone and that we're both able to be sexually vulnerable with each other, that to me is just like, profoundly beautiful.
00:04:01:09 - 00:04:24:15
Cherie
I've been really into that. You know, when I was younger, it was more like, I don't want to experience this act or this act or this act, and I want these things to happen. And that was really what got me there. But now that connected, vulnerable component is just so hot because it is hard to find a partner on or off film that's really willing to go there with you.
00:04:24:15 - 00:04:32:03
Cherie
And when someone's willing to put that kind of trust in me, man, I just find that both beautiful and erotic. Oh, I.
00:04:32:05 - 00:04:43:20
Luna
Totally get it. I'm going to ask you kind of an impossible question. Can you put into words that feeling of vulnerable connection, like, how do you know when it's happening?
00:04:43:22 - 00:05:06:11
Cherie
I think it's a combination for me of eye contact and communication. You know, when someone is willing to tell you that what you're doing, not even in a negative way, like I had a beautiful experience just a few days ago with someone that I was working with, and I was just loving the way that she was correcting my oral sex techniques.
00:05:06:13 - 00:05:29:22
Cherie
It was one of the hardest experiences for me because as she was honing in on her pleasure, I felt so successful. You know, she had a great orgasm in the end. I loved the feedback because I felt like she was comfortable enough with me to say, no, I like it this way. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so intimate.
00:05:30:00 - 00:05:49:06
Cherie
This is so beautiful. She's not even though we're on film, just going to lay there and fake an orgasm because it's on film and no one would ever know, right? Yeah. She wants pleasure from me. And that was especially for work. That was real nice, emotionally. Just beautiful.
00:05:49:11 - 00:05:57:11
Luna
That's really, really beautiful. Yeah. Do you find communication like that happens often for work, or is it rare?
00:05:57:13 - 00:06:21:06
Cherie
We always try and do a lot of communication before the scene, but during the scene at work, I find a lot of people are unwilling to verbalize those changes. And I don't know why. Maybe they think it'll ruin the fantasy of the scene, but I actually think it adds to the scene because it shows a level of realism that we should all be, you know, at home.
00:06:21:06 - 00:06:40:05
Cherie
Of course I do that all the time. I'm always telling my partners, oh, more of this, less of that up there, down there. You know, I feel like that's a really, really normal part of sex that really isn't seen a lot on film. So I have, especially lately, trying to do more of that on film to really communicate my needs.
00:06:40:07 - 00:07:05:19
Luna
That's like my nerdy life said, like literally what I'm preparing is I have my bucket list. I am still in the like, want to try these actions phases. Although I'm hoping now that now that you've pointed it out and put it on my radar, I'm like, well, of course I want as many of them to be as vulnerable and connected and present as possible, but I really am fantasizing about scenes in which, like the first bit is us negotiating, you know, having a conversation and then doing it and then debriefing.
00:07:05:21 - 00:07:28:06
Cherie
Yeah, because all of that is done, but it's just not always shown on film. Like, you go to work and you have massive like, checklists, you go over yeses and nose on sex acts and on words and on positions and on all kinds of contact. And then you review it again after. But I would love to see more of that throughout the film in a hot way.
00:07:28:12 - 00:07:34:15
Luna
Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally. Oh my gosh. Okay, so now what do you think counts as sex?
00:07:34:17 - 00:07:36:23
Cherie
Like what acts count as sex?
00:07:37:02 - 00:07:41:22
Luna
Yeah. What do you count it as and like? Does it change situation to situation?
00:07:42:00 - 00:08:06:05
Cherie
Yeah. I think for me, anything that is erotic can be sex. You know, if somebody wanted to lick my foot until they orgasm, that would be sex. You know, if someone wanted to lick my nipples until I came, that would be sex. Like, I really enjoy my bellybutton being played with, you know, especially if I were to orgasm from that which I can.
00:08:06:05 - 00:08:12:21
Cherie
That would be. We'd have you do play with your belly button. I like the inside. Like really deep.
00:08:12:21 - 00:08:27:03
Luna
No. So I don't because I have a completely different relationship. So my cat likes to step on my belly button when I'm asleep and it makes me feel weak and scared because I'm like, it's thinner there, I might pop. What if it goes so I.
00:08:27:05 - 00:08:50:15
Cherie
So I'm like really actually sensitive. But I appreciate that. It's a strong feeling. But if you ever got to the place where you felt like experimenting and like pressing, like in the center of your belly button, kind of deep. Some people find it pleasurable, some people find it pleasurable, but a lot of people that I know can feel it in their genitals.
00:08:50:17 - 00:08:53:06
Luna
What? Okay, I'm going to maybe try this experiment.
00:08:53:07 - 00:09:03:02
Cherie
Try it gently. Try it with, like, maybe a softer object. You know, if, like, my nails are sharp, that wouldn't be my first experiment. But if you have short fingernails, I did.
00:09:03:02 - 00:09:03:22
Luna
I just cut them.
00:09:03:23 - 00:09:14:05
Cherie
Yeah, that'd be a perfect thing to just gently. And you will not pop to just gently, gently press or move around the inside of the belly button area and see if you like it.
00:09:14:06 - 00:09:20:15
Luna
Can I ask you some detailed questions about your belly? Yeah. When did you realize that you were into your belly? But like that, it felt good.
00:09:20:16 - 00:09:28:20
Cherie
Super young. I started masturbating very well. Who knows what young is? I'd say I was could be as early as 1011 for sure.
00:09:28:22 - 00:09:31:05
Luna
Okay. Do you have an any or an Audi?
00:09:31:07 - 00:09:48:00
Cherie
Any? I'm not sure if it matters who knows what the components are to the pleasure. But it's not just me. I know other people can feel it in their genitals, and some people find it to be very strong and displeasure. But because it's very it, I think it's a pretty strong sensation. So whether you like it or not, you'll feel it.
00:09:48:02 - 00:09:49:17
Cherie
Yeah.
00:09:49:19 - 00:09:51:21
Luna
You've never really explicitly thought.
00:09:51:21 - 00:10:03:03
Cherie
About it since I. I wonder if there's other people out there, people that, listening to me say this going where we.
00:10:03:05 - 00:10:08:00
Luna
Do, people make out with your belly button. Do you like that? Can that make you cum? Or is it like pressing?
00:10:08:00 - 00:10:17:10
Cherie
I don't like wetness in there because I do have sort of a deep hole. Maybe if I had an Audi I would like wet. I feel like wetness is like a wet willy situation.
00:10:17:12 - 00:10:25:07
Luna
I can also imagine someone making out with my belly button and having it feel like they're going down on me, like I'm I can use my hands really nice.
00:10:25:07 - 00:10:35:05
Cherie
Or like a combo move, like if they're going down on you and just like rubbing the belly button, that is a plus. That is everything.
00:10:35:07 - 00:10:37:11
Luna
Yeah, I'm I'm needing to add things to.
00:10:37:13 - 00:10:50:13
Cherie
Bucket list now. Maybe you can do the belly button, but I'll do it. I'll help you experiment. I will help you discover your belly button. Personally, not with these nails. No. Better now so we can.
00:10:50:13 - 00:10:52:04
Luna
Do the glove cotton ball trick.
00:10:52:04 - 00:11:02:04
Cherie
And I've been using my finger. Q-Tip. I mean, trust me, you're gonna love it.
00:11:02:06 - 00:11:04:20
Luna
I am in the to play. I'm not afraid.
00:11:04:23 - 00:11:05:23
Cherie
Of a thing.
00:11:06:04 - 00:11:08:12
Luna
If our agreement was. Don't pop for me. I mean, you know.
00:11:08:16 - 00:11:22:12
Cherie
Yeah, I swear to God, you won't. I'm also a physical therapist, and with my medical background, I can guarantee. I can guarantee there will be no popping of any kind. Okay.
00:11:22:14 - 00:11:23:13
Luna
Man. Oh, man.
00:11:23:13 - 00:11:25:08
Cherie
I'm I'm I.
00:11:25:10 - 00:11:28:23
Luna
Have you talked about your belly button, like, on TikTok or anywhere else? I've got to go through it.
00:11:29:01 - 00:11:42:17
Cherie
I mean, maybe you should. I wonder if I've. I've definitely talked about it with colleagues. I wonder if I've talked about it on. I mean, I'm open to anyone knowing about it. I think it's fantastic. That's an excellent question. Yeah. Okay.
00:11:42:19 - 00:11:47:04
Luna
I have another follow up question. Can you come from your nipples? You mentioned getting them. You know.
00:11:47:04 - 00:12:12:00
Cherie
When I was younger, it might be because I've had a breast augmentation, but when I was younger I absolutely could come from nipple play. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But I haven't had an orgasm from nipples in many, many, many, many, many years. Okay. And even though I really, really love them being touched and played with, I don't know if it's like hormonal changes or the breast augmentation changes, but it's not quite the same as it was when I was younger.
00:12:12:04 - 00:12:22:00
Cherie
Okay. Yeah, maybe I was just so, like horned up when I was like young that I was like, you probably touched my ear lobe, but I could come at one point, you know, how you're like.
00:12:22:01 - 00:12:33:11
Luna
Oh my God, that's amazing. Since we're on the subject of orgasm, if you feel comfy, do you mostly come from like. I mean, if you can come from your belly button and do come from internal stimulation, external all over, like what does it like now?
00:12:33:11 - 00:12:59:22
Cherie
So combo is my favorite. Penetration with clitoral stimulation is my favorite orgasm. My second favorite is clitoral and I can come from penetration alone, but almost never on the first orgasm. Do you know what I mean? I feel like my first orgasm is like, I'm going to need a little more, you know what I mean? I'm going to need clitoral and penetration or at least clitoral.
00:12:59:22 - 00:13:05:08
Cherie
But after that, if my emotions are in the right place, penetration is a possibility.
00:13:05:08 - 00:13:19:23
Luna
Okay, I love it. Okay, but back to the interview in its regular form. What we heard a little bit. What is your sex related work like right now? Do you identify as a sex worker? We know that you do from your info. Okay. Yeah.
00:13:20:00 - 00:13:46:02
Cherie
I do identify as a sex worker. I think in the beginning I might have identified as like, gosh, maybe like a porn ography or blah blah blah, but like, what is sex work? Then I kind of got pissed off that people were creating, and even society was creating this kind of like hierarchy, you know what I mean? Of like, what was like the least slutty and the most slutty and what made you a sex worker and, like, all of that stuff.
00:13:46:02 - 00:14:08:13
Cherie
And I decided, like, I reject that to me. Like, if you're a fetish model sex worker, even if you've never been penetrated, if you are a cam model, sex worker, if you're an in-person worker, sex worker, pornographer, sex worker, like if my content, in whatever form it takes is creating an erotic vibe, if its purpose is to create an erotic vibe in another human.
00:14:08:15 - 00:14:19:20
Cherie
I am a sex worker. So I just decided that was far easier than being like some nuanced, unimportant category. You know what I mean? Yeah, yes, I do.
00:14:19:22 - 00:14:34:17
Luna
I do, I do, I'm still going. And I also still like all the funny names too. I like the regular ones, I like the funny ones, and I'm trying to explore the whole hierarchy. So tell us a little bit more about your work. Like how do you spend most of your time? What are your favorite parts? What's the origin story?
00:14:34:17 - 00:14:35:15
Luna
How did it all come down?
00:14:35:15 - 00:14:40:06
Cherie
I wish I spent most of my time having sex, but I spent most of my time at my computer.
00:14:40:08 - 00:14:42:06
Luna
I know material I get.
00:14:42:08 - 00:15:04:17
Cherie
I so you know, you get into sex work and you're like, this going to be all this hot sex. And there is like twice a week. Like every other day. It's like social media and like, promotion and editing and like, talking to my team members and texting my fans, and like, that's the job, you know, at the end of the day.
00:15:04:17 - 00:15:29:00
Cherie
And like, coming up with concepts, hiring locations, getting costuming, all these organizational tasks that are fun, but certainly not like when I first got into sex work, I'm like, I'm just going to have sex and get paid. Yeah, just like full stop. That was it. I'm like, have sex, get paid, this is great. And then I'm like, wow, this is a really, really time consuming job.
00:15:29:02 - 00:15:50:17
Cherie
Yeah. Like outside of the cab sex and get paid. But yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. But as for my origin story. So I'm also a physical therapist. Yeah. And 13, 14 years ago I was kind of just getting bored of the 9 to 5 grind, but wasn't trying to exit my career. I wouldn't have had any idea how to exit.
00:15:50:18 - 00:16:11:04
Cherie
I would have been too scared to exit. I had spent years getting my doctorate degree, so there was no way I was just going to be like, fuck it. Yeah, I guess no, like like this was my like path, you know? And I was on it and I was doing it and I was bored. It was hard to admit that to myself, but I was bored.
00:16:11:06 - 00:16:33:15
Cherie
So I started dabbling in other ways to make money, thinking it would just be spending money, like extra fun, spending money doing something that I found very exciting and very enticing, which was just nude modeling. That's it. I was just doing nude modeling for like, Model Mayhem, random dudes with cameras. Totally, which I found very erotic.
00:16:33:16 - 00:16:36:14
Luna
Also, my gateway drug. Yes, well, one of many.
00:16:36:19 - 00:17:00:18
Cherie
It was kind of hot because they weren't professionals. Yes, if that makes sense. So there is this like like when I work with a professional photographer, it doesn't feel like I'm turning them on, even if I am, because we're both just like, really, really at work. But when I worked for the Model Mayhem photographers, I knew that it was mostly for their personal collection, so it definitely had a really fun energy.
00:17:00:18 - 00:17:30:05
Cherie
I loved it, I was doing that. I had my resume there, I had my resume, whatever you want to call it, a resume there. I had my resume on Sexy jobs.com. Oh yeah. And so I was doing stuff. I'd gotten into a few, like men's magazines, nothing like Playboy, nothing like dramatically amazing. And somehow my current adult agent, Sandra O.C. modeling saw my resume or one of her headhunters did and was like, would you like to come to LA and shoot porn?
00:17:30:05 - 00:17:55:01
Cherie
And I was like, oh, you want me like you want me to shoot? I was like, how does one even shoot porn? Like, that'd be like, hey, want to be an astronaut? I'd be like, sure, but like how? Like what? Where is it shot? How does it work? Like, I knew nothing, but like, Boogie Nights potentially was my only like, frame of reference for the industry.
00:17:55:01 - 00:18:15:10
Cherie
It was like a blank slate. But I was like, you know what? I don't even know if I was already going to swingers clubs and stuff at this point. If that helps. Like frame my sexuality. But I was like, God, like, that is scary and fascinating. And then I asked myself, like, when you're 90, if you didn't do this, how will you feel about yourself?
00:18:15:10 - 00:18:35:07
Cherie
And I was like, pissed pants. Like, I like, yeah, I don't care what comes of this, but like, I don't want that kind of like that missing out. Like, coulda would should, I'm like, worst case scenario, you can be like, look what Nana did. Look at these crazy DVDs. Like, look what a bad bitch I was when I was younger.
00:18:35:07 - 00:18:57:13
Cherie
Like Nana lived her life. Children. Do you know what I mean? I'm like, worst case scenario, I have this, like, I was in a porn, like I was in a porn. Y'all like a mainstream it so I couldn't I couldn't pass that up. I couldn't pass that up. So I flew my little self to LA. I took my week's work that my agent had booked me.
00:18:57:13 - 00:19:18:23
Cherie
I was only doing girl girl at the time because I was like, these boys seem scary and they have large penises. So I was like, that fell over. That felt overwhelming at the time. So I did my week's work and I loved it. I loved the people. I love the hair and makeup, I loved the costumes. I loved the weird scenarios.
00:19:18:23 - 00:19:39:08
Cherie
And I'm like, oh my God, this is awesome. So like, I was like, well, you know, I'll just come to LA once and like seasonally, you know, almost like is a vacation, like shoot some porn. See my new little friends like do the LA thing, which was like new to me too, and then go home and do my regular job.
00:19:39:08 - 00:19:47:16
Cherie
And I did that for years. I was just like, randomly, I was just randomly doing porn and working as a physical therapist for years.
00:19:47:17 - 00:19:51:00
Luna
That's so hot. Wait, where how far were you flying in from?
00:19:51:02 - 00:20:10:08
Cherie
That's. Sorry. I live winters in Nashville, Tennessee and summers on the beach in new Jersey at the time, so I was just like randomly, secretly shooting porn. I did contact a lawyer to make sure I couldn't lose my license and all of that stuff. You know, I did some due diligence, and then I was like going like every few months, Stella.
00:20:10:10 - 00:20:33:07
Cherie
And then like every other month to LA and then like a week every month to LA and then like two weeks a month in LA. And then I'm like, let's take a step back. You're doing that like, like you're doing this more than physical therapy. Like, okay, people like your were like, you're building a name for yourself every time you're available, you're getting hired.
00:20:33:07 - 00:20:56:02
Cherie
Like, what do you want? Do you want to continue doing therapy as your primary and doing this as your side hustle? Or do you want to see where this can go as a career and I'm like, this is amazing. I've never been so excited about something. I've never felt so motivated. I've never been so hard working at anything on and off camera.
00:20:56:04 - 00:21:12:09
Cherie
I'm going to move to LA. I think part of it that I was scared that no one would like me or like that it wouldn't work out. So I was almost like, I feel like not putting both feet in was like almost like an emotional safety net for me. But so eventually I'm like, you're good enough to do this.
00:21:12:09 - 00:21:31:00
Cherie
You can do this. People like you be brave, put both feet in the swimming pool and try your hardest in all the ways that you can, you know, in your business ways and your social media ways like do it to the best of your abilities and let's see what happens. And it's gone very well.
00:21:31:02 - 00:21:36:06
Luna
Tell us the highlight. Tell us what's the amazing. Also, how long have you been in L.A now?
00:21:36:08 - 00:21:38:11
Cherie
Maybe over eight years. Nine years?
00:21:38:14 - 00:21:40:21
Luna
Yeah. Tell us your favorite parts. Tell us what lights you up.
00:21:41:01 - 00:22:09:19
Cherie
So many boring and exciting things. So some of the boring things that have changed my whole life. I'm my own boss. I can work any hours that I want. And ironically, I put in way more hours than I ever have as a 9 to 5 physical therapist. And I do it joyfully. It's my business and I run it how I want, and I choose all of my employees, and I do the type of content I want, and I do it when I want at the price point that I want.
00:22:09:19 - 00:22:32:04
Cherie
Like I've just never had so much autonomy because I was not my own boss. As a physical therapist, I worked at a clinic where they tell you when to come in and who to see and when to leave, and how much vacation you get and what kind of vacation you get. And you have to schedule it, and you have to know now if I'm like, you know what, I'm going to take two months off, okay?
00:22:32:06 - 00:22:57:01
Cherie
You know, I have more time to see my family and see my nieces grow and take as much or as little time as I want. So like that for just my life, my life quality, my family relationships, my friend relationships, my emotional health has been life changing. Also, I have a bad neck and bad thumbs which are totally fine.
00:22:57:01 - 00:23:17:21
Cherie
Now since I don't do 12 hours a day of manual therapy. So it's helped me physically. And then just like so hard to say if it's like a cultural thing or a family thing, but I was raised either by my family or by society to feel like these are the things that you should go for. And I went for them and I got them successfully.
00:23:17:21 - 00:23:51:13
Cherie
I was educated highly. I had a career that was very acceptable, but I think there's always been this scared little artist part in me that never thought I was good enough to shine. As an artist that feels so seen and loved, that I get to be creative and be an artist and have that part so celebrated by my fans and my community that like, I feel so proud and so joyful of that part.
00:23:51:15 - 00:24:11:14
Cherie
And then the job is fun. I mean, the job is objectively fun. Any job in which you're can and should have orgasms is just, like, objectively fun. It'd be like having a job, eating, or having a job sleeping. It's like the three things that we need in life. Like my job entails a basic human need. So like, that's real nice.
00:24:11:16 - 00:24:13:02
Cherie
That's so yummy.
00:24:13:08 - 00:24:25:07
Luna
Oh my gosh. Are there any, like, specific scenes that stand out? Like were there moments where you're like, oh my God, this is my job right now. Like scenario is the things that are just like your favorites.
00:24:25:09 - 00:24:47:05
Cherie
I think and say that almost every day on set, there's like almost always a moment on set where I'll turn to someone and be like this is her job. Can we just all just stand here for a second together and be like, this is our motherfucking job right now? I'm dressed as an alien, and I'm not about to peg the shit out of you, and I'm being paid.
00:24:47:07 - 00:25:02:00
Cherie
And like what? Even after 12 years, I still have to, like, reality check myself and be like, this is my day. Like I spent all day the day before yesterday dressed up as seven different Barbies for my own content.
00:25:02:00 - 00:25:06:07
Luna
Like, yes, oh my God, that's so good. Like, oh man.
00:25:06:09 - 00:25:08:17
Cherie
That is a beautiful day for me.
00:25:08:19 - 00:25:15:16
Luna
Oh my God. Okay, what would you say makes you excellent at what you do?
00:25:15:18 - 00:26:06:18
Cherie
I don't think it has anything to do with my looks or even necessarily my skills. I feel like the very best performers that I've worked with and the most successful performers are both really, really, really smart and really, really, really available to be present sexually. There are definitely a lot of performers that look gorgeous, but they're slightly checked out during scenes and I don't know if it's obvious to the audience because they're doing all the things, they're making all the sounds, but they must be able to tell subconsciously, because a lot of the highly award winning, highly popular performers are also the ones that when I work with them, I'm like, oh, you're so here
00:26:06:18 - 00:26:33:09
Cherie
with me, like, this is really a joint effort. And you just start, you know, during the scene, like feeding off of each other and you're just really authentic. And they're and not trying to look cute or hold your stomach in or twist to your best angle. You're just trying to fuck, you know? Totally. Wow.
00:26:33:09 - 00:26:35:19
Luna
So you feel like you drop into that?
00:26:35:21 - 00:26:48:13
Cherie
Yeah, I feel like it. I'm a pretty confident lady and like, like, I have a lot of friends that, like, would be upset if their makeup was really, really messed up at the end of a scene. I'm upset if my makeup isn't messed up.
00:26:48:15 - 00:26:51:05
Luna
I need to get messy otherwise. But a lot.
00:26:51:07 - 00:27:11:14
Cherie
A lot of people, really. It's really important to them to look pretty throughout the scene. And I think the fact that I'm confident enough, like during one of my first boy girls scenes, the director, whenever I see him at a party, comes up. He's like, remember what you said during your first boy girl scene? And I was like, fuck me until I'm ugly.
00:27:11:16 - 00:27:34:12
Cherie
And that's what I wanted because I just want to express myself sexually. I don't want it to be about like my pretty fake eyelashes or my hair extensions, or my like this or my that. I just want to be animalistic and raw, and that doesn't mean rough all the time at all, but it just means raw and real.
00:27:34:12 - 00:27:37:08
Cherie
And I think there's something about that that resonates with the audience.
00:27:37:08 - 00:27:49:00
Luna
That's so cool. This is a total question of projection, because I went to film school and I'm like, but you let other people be behind the camera. So it's like mind control stuff comes up. How taking care of do you feel on set? Like, what is it like for you?
00:27:49:02 - 00:28:12:18
Cherie
First of all, it's tough because on set, every set and production company is a completely different company in and of themselves. And so while there are like general industry standards of behavior, everyone can take those standards in their own direction. So there are some people that I like, companies that I like working with more than others, like Brazzers and Adult Time.
00:28:12:18 - 00:28:36:12
Cherie
There are certain companies that are like at the very top of like care and consent companies that have a talent liaison on set, whose only job is to keep both eyes on you, to be mindful of your consent checklist and whether or not you're able to verbalize anything. They're going to do it for you. So like if I said I don't want to be slapped, I don't know whatever.
00:28:36:16 - 00:28:54:05
Cherie
And then during the scene I, you know, ones being mean, but like you, sometimes you just do something and then I get slapped and maybe I'm so, like revved up in the scene that I didn't cock cut for myself. The talent liaison will call cut and be like, okay, I saw that you just got slapped. Is that okay?
00:28:54:05 - 00:29:12:12
Cherie
Now, have we changed our consent checklist like, how do you feel? Let's like back down from all the adrenaline and the hormones and the dopamine and, like, take a breath and decide, like, do you want to keep that slap in? Should we were assigned, you know, whatever it is. So like there are some sets that take it to the safest place.
00:29:12:12 - 00:29:43:03
Cherie
And those are the only people in my career that I work with now. It just is really, really important to me because while I feel very powerful and do call cut all the time, you do get in like a revved up, like hormonal, emotional like state, and it's nice to have extra sets of eyes on the whole scene that are really, really making sure that everyone isn't going to go home and calm down and be like, ooh, yeah, I'm not sure I wanted that slap on film, you know, or whatever.
00:29:43:04 - 00:30:08:17
Cherie
Let's say you were going to a swingers club and you think carefully while you're not horny about the things that you do and you do not want to do, and then you arrive and you get super horny and all of a sudden your parameters change. And that's not bad, right? But when you're on film, you have to be really careful about like, is this your hormones talking and it's temporary, or is this you talking?
00:30:08:20 - 00:30:18:07
Cherie
And you really, really want this. You know, I think we've all experienced making interesting choices when we're super horny or hungry or whatever.
00:30:18:09 - 00:30:18:20
Luna
Oh, yeah.
00:30:18:21 - 00:30:22:08
Cherie
Like we don't want that on site. We don't want any remorse.
00:30:22:12 - 00:30:35:07
Luna
Yeah, yeah, that's really wise. I do think sometimes my whole life was created because I am constantly pretty horny, and sometimes I look at it and I'm like, oh my God, what did I do? Well it's perfect. Are you still active in the swinger lifestyle? Like, is that something.
00:30:35:07 - 00:31:16:15
Cherie
That I wish I'm not? Okay, but I'll tell you the only reason why, because of the work that I do. So the primary reason that I don't do any swinging anymore, even though I used condoms with men while I was swinging, I performed oral sex on women at swingers clubs without any protection. You can judge that however you want, but that is what I did, and out of respect for my colleagues, I no longer have sex with untested partners and when I say untested, I would not have sex with a partner who didn't have a 14 day or newer STI test from one of the three standardized clinics that do the tests that we need.
00:31:16:17 - 00:31:44:02
Cherie
Because for me and everyone makes different choices. There's no rules in sex work. But for me, if I went to a swingers club and I got gonorrhea in my throat eating out some beautiful woman, and then I went to sex the next day and got gonorrhea introduced into the industry, I'd feel like a total asshole, you know? I just don't feel like that would be respectful to my scene partners to be making risky choices in my private life that don't just affect my body.
00:31:44:02 - 00:31:52:14
Cherie
I'll make risky choices in my private life if they only affect my body. But they don't. I'm a sex worker now, so my choices affect hundreds of people.
00:31:52:16 - 00:32:04:17
Luna
That is literally exactly what I was wondering, because since I have gotten more and more into the land of sex work, I have encountered swingers who want to hook up and they don't want to use protection.
00:32:04:17 - 00:32:06:02
Cherie
Well, that's another level.
00:32:06:02 - 00:32:19:17
Luna
And I'm like, wait, what? Well, in protection, I mean, like, they don't want to let me go down on the lady with laurels, which are the natural rubber latex panties, like they don't want to use anything. And there's an entitlement that I find quite a turnoff, so. Yeah.
00:32:19:18 - 00:32:40:19
Cherie
All right. And then they judge you as if you're, like, prudish or like, oh, you think I'm gross? Oh, I don't have an STI. I feel like a lot of non sex workers get very offended when you ask for an STI test. I'm not dirty. I'm like, nobody said the word dirty. STIs aren't dirty. No one's judging you morally.
00:32:40:19 - 00:33:05:00
Cherie
And having an STI isn't a moral judgment upon you, you know. But that culture around STIs, which really should change, I think, is preventing a lot of non sex workers for testing non sex workers that are very sexually active for testing inappropriate amount. My non sex worker friends have skills that are sexually active in the bar scene or the tinder scene, have STIs that are much higher rate than I do.
00:33:05:06 - 00:33:11:05
Luna
Man, I know I'm like, could everyone just get a clear path or talent test it like constantly and be great?
00:33:11:07 - 00:33:14:12
Cherie
It would be. Then we could all just bang all the time. Yeah.
00:33:14:17 - 00:33:23:15
Luna
Also, wouldn't it be interesting if the stigma around any infection was the same? Like what if like anytime someone got any kind of sick we were just like, see? Well it's fine.
00:33:23:15 - 00:33:38:17
Cherie
Yeah. Or like why is an STI different than a head cold? Like, if I came to work with a head cold, people wouldn't be like, gross. How'd you even get it? Yeah. How are you even a l l who were you near? How did you, Like what?
00:33:38:19 - 00:33:53:11
Luna
Like it's also interesting around. Like what? Boundaries are common or not common? Like, I went on a date a few weeks ago. Like a just a first date. And at the end, this dude, like, leans in to kiss me. And we had not had a connected anything. But I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I was like, saliva exchange is a big deal for me.
00:33:53:16 - 00:34:04:18
Luna
I get sick, he's like, I don't want to, you know? And it's like he was so much more than that. But I was just like, we're not on the same page here. I understand you're doing a social norm right now. However, I don't know where your mouth has been. You don't like no no no no no no no.
00:34:04:18 - 00:34:11:06
Luna
It's just very interesting. Okay. So are you out about what you do with people? Like, do you get reactions when you tell them like what's that like?
00:34:11:12 - 00:34:33:00
Cherie
Thank God I live in L.A. Because like, my neighbors obviously know, you know, I own my house. I've been here for a while. They're going to figure it out. I've been doing this long enough to where unrecognizable. So I'm not trying to lie. I'm very open, especially with all my health care providers. Anyone that I'm going to be seeing on a regular basis.
00:34:33:00 - 00:34:52:01
Cherie
I don't feel the need to lie about it. The only reason I would ever lie is not for like if I was in an Uber, I would lie. And that's not because I'm ashamed. It's because I don't think it's safe to tell someone who I'm trapped in a car with that I'm a sex worker, because sometimes men specifically think that that means something.
00:34:52:01 - 00:35:11:05
Cherie
It doesn't mean it means that you're willing to do things that you're not willing to do. And as any femme presenting person will tell you, rejecting a man can be a very, very dangerous thing to do. You know, if someone comes up to you at a bar, you rebuff their advances. Oh, you're just a cunt. You're just a bit you.
00:35:11:08 - 00:35:20:03
Cherie
It turns angry quickly, often. So if I lie about my job, it's because I feel like I'm in a situation where it might not be safe to divulge that information.
00:35:20:06 - 00:35:26:14
Luna
That makes a lot of sense. What are your go to lies about what you do you have any or do you just make it up every time or do you just deflect?
00:35:26:16 - 00:35:36:16
Cherie
I don't have to make it up because I'm also a physical therapist. Oh, I have all of the information on deck about physical therapy, so no one would ever like question it.
00:35:36:18 - 00:35:42:07
Luna
It's such a good point. I do know I'm an artist and a photographer, so exactly.
00:35:42:09 - 00:35:54:11
Cherie
It's easier to tell like omissions than like straight lies. If I was like, oh, I'm, YouTuber, they'd be great. What's your channel? Oh. My life fell apart quickly.
00:35:54:13 - 00:35:58:02
Luna
So do you get recognized out in the world in Los Angeles? Like, has that happened?
00:35:58:02 - 00:36:20:08
Cherie
Yeah, I was actually on Venice Beach doing some, like, street interviews with my friend Magnolia for our content and like, multiple people, like, ran up to us and we're like, oh, my God, are you Sherie Deville? And I'm like, Yes. Will you be interviewed on oh that's amazing. Yeah. Normally people are super nice and super respectful. Yeah.
00:36:20:10 - 00:36:27:00
Luna
So what have you noticed or learned about sex related shame through the work that you do?
00:36:27:02 - 00:36:52:13
Cherie
Oh gosh. Sex related shame is such a shame because imagine if, for whatever dumb ass reason, our culture put the same vibe on something else that we need because we need sex. We need sex to procreate. We need sex because we're mammals. It is programed into us on the deepest biological level. It is not a want, it is a need.
00:36:52:15 - 00:37:25:10
Cherie
So what if you took another need, like sleep or food and started wrapping it with shame and judgment? That would fuck you up? Yeah, like the fact that anyone doesn't feel free to express themselves sexually, I think is a tragedy in their lives. An actual full on tragedy, because sexual expression should be one of your biggest joys, and you should be able to do it in whatever way is emotionally comfortable for you.
00:37:25:10 - 00:37:36:00
Cherie
Like how many men, especially like in the middle of the country, are gay or pansexual or bisexual and will never be able to express that?
00:37:36:02 - 00:37:50:03
Luna
Yeah, or even just want to touch their books. Maybe then maybe they really are straight, but like, maybe they want to touch their. Maybe they want someone else to touch their button. They'll never get to you because they stand around a circle with their dude friends and talk about how gay that is.
00:37:50:05 - 00:38:13:06
Cherie
Yes, all of those things, or women who have been raised to think that if their body count is above whatever and it changes generation to generation, that they have no more value to a partner, so they're going to limit their sexual partners just to be purchasable for marriage. I mean, tragedy.
00:38:13:08 - 00:38:14:20
Luna
Not enough room for pleasure or.
00:38:14:20 - 00:38:38:09
Cherie
People who are not naturally monogamous. Being forced into 50 years of actual monogamy, you know, just all of these tragedies. I don't particularly believe in the afterlife. So to me, if you are not living however you want to live, as long as you're not hurting others. I mean, to say that you're wasting your life is almost an understatement.
00:38:38:09 - 00:38:56:12
Cherie
Like, I'd want to just shake you and be like, what are you doing? You are going to die. This is going to be over, and you're going to let the opinions of people you don't. Or maybe that you do care about it dictate what you do in the 80 years that you have on this planet before it is over.
00:38:56:14 - 00:39:31:13
Cherie
To me, that is fucking crazy. And to think that something like shame can waste years or a lifetime sucks. I would just encourage anyone who has shameful feelings around sex to. And I love my therapist. So this isn't like get a therapist. I don't say I think therapy is fantastic. I think therapy for everyone. But if you have shameful feelings around sex, working through that with a sex positive therapist might change your whole life, might bring you joy that you didn't even know you could achieve in your life.
00:39:31:15 - 00:39:48:03
Luna
Yeah, and I just want to tack on to that. If working on sex stuff feels too scary working on any part of your life, emotions, creativity like that cracked it all open for me. I was like, I don't really know why I'm so unhappy with work. And then I was like, oh, I'm not being late. I'm not doing anything I want.
00:39:48:03 - 00:39:50:13
Luna
Okay, yeah, overhauls are possible.
00:39:50:18 - 00:40:03:16
Cherie
I think overhauls are absolutely possible. And I think that we should all have multiple overhauls throughout our lives. Yeah, I think that if you haven't had any overhauls, you're not really growing like you could be as a person.
00:40:03:18 - 00:40:15:22
Luna
Absolutely. So how has your work influenced or informed your own personal life? And like, what exactly does emotionally monogamous mean for you? Like how does it manifest?
00:40:16:00 - 00:40:43:21
Cherie
Well, for me, I think at this point in my life, just if I'm being completely blunt and honest, I'm too insecure and jealous to share a partner emotionally. Maybe that will change as I become more confident in myself and more confident in my connection, and more centered in who I am. But right now I just have this emotional insecurity.
00:40:43:23 - 00:41:17:06
Cherie
Really. All of my jealousy is just a fear of loss. I'm so desperately afraid of losing my relationship that sharing them emotion really just scares the shit out of me. So that's where I am with that in my personal journey. But maybe if I continue on my journey and continue becoming more confident, I'll be able to allow them the freedom to emotionally, powerfully connect sexually and physically with other humans.
00:41:17:06 - 00:41:22:12
Cherie
You know, right now I'm only comfortable with that sexual connection.
00:41:22:14 - 00:41:31:08
Luna
God. Okay, I literally was thinking of it totally backwards because I was like, how do you not fall in love with people? Like, oh.
00:41:31:10 - 00:41:56:07
Cherie
Yeah. So like, it's not even a separation thing. It would be more like for me and everyone, it's totally different for me. Like even before I ever have sex with someone, like, I kind of, like, instantly know if I could love them. Like, I feel like someone's energy. Like I fall in love hard and fast. Okay? And it's only happened a few times in my life, so it's super, super, super rare for me.
00:41:56:07 - 00:42:18:10
Cherie
I have all kinds of other feelings, but like love, I'd say has happened less than ten times for me in my life. And it's not necessarily like sex related, although sex is involved. Okay, so like if I were to like have that knowledge of potential with someone in the current form my relationship takes, I would just sort of avoid increasing my intimacy with that person.
00:42:18:10 - 00:42:26:19
Luna
That makes sense. Yeah, that sounds like you were really clear idea container or experience of, shall we call it romantic love?
00:42:26:21 - 00:42:27:14
Cherie
Yeah.
00:42:27:16 - 00:42:29:16
Luna
Okay. I'm trying to understand.
00:42:29:16 - 00:42:58:15
Cherie
That giving me an orgasm is not going to make me fall in love with you. It might help our intimacy, which is fantastic for relationships and growth together. And I think sex helps my intimacy with a lot of my friends and coworkers. It is intimate and it is beautiful and it is pleasurable and my genitals are happy. But it doesn't mean I'm like, you know what I mean?
00:42:58:15 - 00:43:15:20
Cherie
Like in love. Yeah, I feel like that feeling can be concurrent, but it also has nothing to do with the sex. All those orgasms and dopamine and vulnerability can build intimacy. But I don't think it's necessarily like the foundation of love or.
00:43:15:22 - 00:43:32:00
Luna
What is being in love. Then I always experience it as like maybe containers and I put the right amount of love in the right containers, but I actually so I'm a little bit autistic and I don't, I don't know if I understand. I mean, I don't not that this is a whole podcast on love. We really do try to stick to sex, but like, I'm really curious.
00:43:32:00 - 00:43:35:08
Luna
I'm getting really curious about love lately. I'm like, what is it for me?
00:43:35:08 - 00:43:59:04
Cherie
And I don't know what it is for everybody. For me, it is like this powerful tummy butterfly. I can't get enough of you. I feel addicted to you. Everything you do feels amazing. I want to spend all my time with you. I feel so safe with you. I feel like I can be my most authentic me without any judgment.
00:43:59:04 - 00:44:31:07
Cherie
With you, I feel like I could tell you all of my secrets. I want to not feel like I could. I want to tell you all my secrets. I want to, like, wrap myself in you until we're like one. You know what I mean? Physically and emotionally. It's just that desire to, like, have this, like, insane level of closeness and safety and security and, like, wiggly butterflies and, like, hormonal addiction all in one.
00:44:31:09 - 00:44:32:13
Cherie
Wow.
00:44:32:18 - 00:44:38:06
Luna
Also, I love that you said wiggly because I've been wiggling every day for four years. Yeah, kind of like personal practice.
00:44:38:11 - 00:44:47:14
Cherie
Yeah, yeah, I do that in the pool a lot. I like, like bouncing around and wiggling and really feels like the sensory experience of that is like, so joyful.
00:44:47:16 - 00:44:55:23
Luna
I totally get it. I love to wiggle in the pool, and I also love to like, do swirls, like, how do I say this? Like with my I love to spin around in a row. I think of.
00:44:55:23 - 00:44:57:00
Cherie
It, I feel so good. I go.
00:44:57:04 - 00:44:58:12
Luna
Through it and I get so dizzy.
00:44:58:12 - 00:45:07:03
Cherie
In a tube to like, swirl the tube around faster and faster. Yes, it's exactly like sensory amazingness. It's really it.
00:45:07:05 - 00:45:20:09
Luna
Okay, so what are the boundaries between your work and personal life look like? Like, do you have to set them up real strong? Do you like how do you imagine them and or with colleagues, clients, friends? Like what does that kind of like look like in Shari DeVille's life?
00:45:20:11 - 00:45:42:08
Cherie
Yeah, I don't feel like I cognitively set them up real strong. I just feel like my only parameter would be if I start to feel that love feeling, I would back off from that human until it either went away or again within the current parameters of my relationship until it either went away or yeah, yeah, I'm not like, do this, don't do this.
00:45:42:10 - 00:46:13:21
Cherie
It doesn't feel like that for me. There are some people who I have beautiful relationships with friendships, vulnerabilities, good sex, all of that. And I value them as a human. I need them in my life. They're fabulous friends. I share my secrets with them, and I just don't feel all romance with them. Yeah, yeah. Like if my partner were to have sex with someone and then start, like, sharing all of his intimate feelings with them, I'd be so jealous.
00:46:13:23 - 00:46:15:08
Luna
Okay. Yeah.
00:46:15:10 - 00:46:23:01
Cherie
You know, but without that, yeah, it doesn't spark that in me for whatever reason. Yeah.
00:46:23:03 - 00:46:34:16
Luna
What about boundaries for, like, social media purposes or just like, like keeping work separate from your personal life? Or is it pretty integrated? And also, does it inform your sex life like so?
00:46:34:16 - 00:46:58:06
Cherie
I don't have personal social media at all. The only reason I have social media is for work. So everything that you see on my social media, it's not not real, but it's curated with my brand heavily in mind. Like if I'm having like a personal crisis that we all have, like you're never going to hear about it on my social media, not judging anyone that does that.
00:46:58:06 - 00:47:31:18
Cherie
That's why everyone runs that stuff their own way. But it's not just not my thing. It's not good for a mills brand. The real me doesn't have social media. If I did, I would talk about things like that on my social media, probably. But everything that's placed on Shari DeVille's social media is marketing. And I find that with my primarily male audience that even though you'll get a few White Nights being like, oh, you poor thing, if something bad is happening in your life, it doesn't help sell porn.
00:47:31:20 - 00:47:43:06
Cherie
And my business is selling porn. So the things that I post on my page are directly to sell porn. I mean, that's I just it's just business, business, business for me.
00:47:43:07 - 00:47:46:02
Luna
So clear when you say it like that, I love that.
00:47:46:04 - 00:48:11:10
Cherie
Yeah. So if I'm like feeling something and I want to write it down, like I'll text a friend, I'll call my parents, I'll talk to my partner. Well, also, I don't care about the opinions of internet strangers. So like why I would tell internet strangers anything personal and request their advice is beyond me. But even if I wanted to, knowing that it was bad for my business would totally prevent me from doing it as well.
00:48:11:12 - 00:48:21:02
Luna
I make a lot of sense. Wow. Okay, I'm thinking about all the stuff that I tell people that is very personal, but I also am like, but my personal is my professional. I don't know, you know.
00:48:21:02 - 00:48:27:12
Cherie
That's fine too, you know? And then like, what you're selling might be different than what I'm selling. Do you know, like I'm not selling anything?
00:48:27:12 - 00:48:28:07
Luna
Yeah, more like.
00:48:28:07 - 00:48:54:02
Cherie
You're brand like. Like there are definitely people's brands that are all about all kinds of different things, you know? So it just depends who your public facing image is and how you want to appear to your audience and why you even want an audience in the first place. Like, what are you getting from those eyeballs? Like, where are you directing those eyeballs?
00:48:54:02 - 00:49:13:20
Cherie
And how do you want those eyeballs to feel about you in a business or personal capacity? You know, I feel like once you have those answers for yourself, there are no wrong answers. Then you'll be able to curate your public image in a way that feels really right and productive. Yeah. Fuck yeah.
00:49:13:22 - 00:49:18:19
Luna
So what about your work influencing your own sex life?
00:49:18:21 - 00:49:49:13
Cherie
That is an excellent question. I feel like one thing that my work has done is it's allowed me to, like, participate in sexual experiences I personally wouldn't have felt safe participating in without a crew present, like giant gang bangs. Like, I wouldn't be comfortable, just like going on Craigslist and being like, who wants to fuck? Come by my house at 10 p.m. now ten strangers have your address and like, do you even like their dicks?
00:49:49:13 - 00:50:07:14
Cherie
And are they going to get in some fight? Or do they even like each other? Like never mind testing or any of that. Like, I want to be able to be in a gangbang and be like, all right boys, I'm going to take ten for some water without anyone being like, oh, my dicks are going to like, do you know what I mean?
00:50:07:14 - 00:50:27:06
Cherie
Like, I just want it to be super safe, super consensual. Professional dicks are a plus because everyone knows what's up. No one's in a fight. Everyone's like, both having fun and at work. So for me, it's allowed me to, like, try things that I've always wanted to try in an environment that I just feel is so comfortable.
00:50:27:11 - 00:50:28:16
Luna
That's amazing.
00:50:28:18 - 00:50:46:13
Cherie
Well, plus, like, you get to know people and I don't know, it's just on film, especially because our industry is relatively like the on film part of the industry is small, like you kind of know everybody, you know, so then you do end up with like individual relationships with each person in some way, you know?
00:50:46:15 - 00:50:50:02
Luna
Oh, I fucking love that. And your partner sounds like they've always been supportive.
00:50:50:04 - 00:50:53:03
Cherie
Yeah. Like I was a sex worker before we met. All of.
00:50:53:03 - 00:50:56:08
Luna
Us. I mean, did you, like, tell them right away or how do you.
00:50:56:11 - 00:51:20:15
Cherie
Oh, yeah. Because so many people have so many feelings about it. And like, imagine a scenario. I go on a date and we have sex on the first date, and then on the second date I disclose that I'm a sex worker. If that person had a major problem with it, they might feel very upset and misled because some people would not choose to have sex with a sex worker.
00:51:20:17 - 00:51:51:08
Cherie
So I feel like it's very dangerous to me to put anyone in the position where they feel bamboozled because again, in my experience, especially men raised in our culture express rage as a frequent emotion. And I think as a lot of women, especially trans women, know, their problems with themselves can become a problem with your safety very quickly.
00:51:51:10 - 00:51:52:15
Cherie
Yeah.
00:51:52:17 - 00:52:05:02
Luna
What else have you learned through your work about either like social cultural norms that you like, see and or would like to shift sex wise?
00:52:05:04 - 00:52:35:20
Cherie
I see so many, like every cultural norm in the United States around sex is just crap. Everything like forced monogamy is absurd. Any kind of judgment on if and when you masturbate, absurd when you start your sexual journey? Absurd how many partners you have. Absurd sexual acts that are good and bad. Ridiculous. Like any rule that you're putting on someone's expression is ridiculous.
00:52:35:22 - 00:53:10:10
Cherie
Unless, of course, it harms others. You know, there are boundaries that I think we all need to maintain like, but even like I love. Have you ever heard the phrase consensual non consent. Yeah. So like everyone's like well what about stuff like that. Well even in a scenario where I'm role playing a non consensual sexual experience which is a strong fantasy of mine, I've had a preliminary discussion about exam what that role play scenario should pan out like.
00:53:10:14 - 00:53:20:19
Cherie
Yeah. You know so yes. So I think almost anything can be explored safely if both parties are firmly of age and consenting.
00:53:20:21 - 00:53:36:11
Luna
Fuck yes. Yeah. What about any trends in your personal career that you've like noticed over the years or changes in yourself, personal life, professional life? Like just like what patterns that you're noticing that I would never know to ask about specifically.
00:53:36:12 - 00:54:04:16
Cherie
You know, something that I never thought about before I got into sex work is the immense and beautiful variety of sexual expression in humans. All of the different fetishes, all of the different kinks. It is so vast. Even things that I would have previously thought were completely non-sexual, like I did a custom ones where I spent 45 minutes just sniffing my upper lip like this, and that was sexual for that person.
00:54:04:16 - 00:54:34:20
Cherie
And I did a custom where I was pretending to eat tiny plastic people in my cereal. I did a cut. That was sexual to someone. I've squished food with my feet. I've done all kinds of things that are definitely sexual for the consumer, that I would have never thought would be part of the human sexual experience. So like it has opened my eyes to like all kinds of like cool stuff, some stuff that I'm like, hey, I also like this and some stuff that I'm like, well, that's cool.
00:54:35:00 - 00:54:43:00
Cherie
I'm totally willing to like, dive down this rabbit hole with you, but I'm not necessarily getting wet over it, you know what I mean? That's so cool. Oh, man.
00:54:43:02 - 00:54:48:08
Luna
What else are you excited to explore or grow in your work going forward?
00:54:48:10 - 00:55:08:08
Cherie
You know, I get that question a lot, and I'm not even sure I feel like those things just come to me like. Like I'll just be like, I know what I want to do, and then I'll just, like, make it happen. So right now, there's no, like, big bucket list item that I'm like, must check off ABC. I won't know now that I'm thinking about it.
00:55:08:08 - 00:55:28:09
Cherie
And I was just saying that, you know, I've never had sex with, trans man. And I think that is a goddamn shame. Okay. I've had sex with a lot of trans women, but that's something that I'm really curious about. But yeah, as time goes on and I meet the right people and I'm like, oh, I'd like to have sex with you.
00:55:28:09 - 00:55:45:14
Cherie
Like that night all of a sudden I've done a new thing, you know? Or I'm like, oh, that prop looks awesome. Oh, I'll get that. I've done a new thing. Or like that fetish con up. Like even when I first started doing bondage and suspension work, I'm like, I don't even know if I'm going to like this. Yeah.
00:55:45:15 - 00:56:16:19
Cherie
And it turned out I loved, like, loved it in ways that I would have never known that I would want something like. Like how being like, tightly bound feels and how like even the feeling of physical distress and emotional distress can enhance an orgasm, or how, like fear and sexuality can go together. If you're in a safe environment, like all these things that I would never have known that I would like, that I was like, well, I don't know, I'll try it.
00:56:16:19 - 00:56:42:20
Cherie
And then I'm like, oh, my body is responding quite nicely to this. Oh, look at that. Wasn't even a fantasy of mine. But here we are. I'm going to be doing this again. Yeah, yeah. Hang me from the wall. Yeah I. Yeah. I wasn't like growing up and being like, you know what I want? I want to be hung upside down and be like, yeah.
00:56:43:01 - 00:56:57:19
Cherie
Like that was not for me. But then I did it and I'm like, oh my, oh my. Okay. Yeah. It sounds like you've done some fun stuff. Wow.
00:56:57:21 - 00:57:05:17
Luna
If you could wave a magic wand and teach everyone in the whole wide world something about sex, what would it be?
00:57:05:19 - 00:57:26:16
Cherie
I don't even think it would be teaching them anything. I think everyone needs to explore their body organically. I don't even think watching porn before your first sexual experience is necessarily beneficial, because the way that I fuck shouldn't be the way that you fuck, or the way that that person fucks or like, what if you would just want someone to, like, spend 20 minutes sucking on your fingers?
00:57:26:18 - 00:57:53:00
Cherie
Like there shouldn't be any judgment in that, or preconceived notion that sex goes in a certain pattern or flow just because that's the way we do it on film. Because honestly, the stuff we do on film is for the consumer. Most of the consumers are male, so it's inherently for the male gaze, and it's going in a formula that, multitude of consumers like that should not influence your sexual expression just because that is consumable porn.
00:57:53:02 - 00:58:28:04
Cherie
I think it's really beautiful to be able to like, do you without any preconceived notions, if possible. And I would also this would be God. How would the world be different? Even like at this moment in every country, if you waved a magic wand and people had no shame around their bodies that we all thought we were fantastic, perfect, beautiful, capable, sexual, and had no shame around sexual expression like I think it would not just make people happy, which is fantastic.
00:58:28:06 - 00:58:39:10
Cherie
I think it would drastically change everything. I think wars would be different. I think everything would be perfect, soundly, culturally different for the better.
00:58:39:12 - 00:58:46:20
Luna
I agree, if people wanted to dive into your content, where do you recommend they start?
00:58:46:22 - 00:59:07:13
Cherie
Well, I put all of my new stuff, all the stuff that came from my crazy little brain without anyone else's input on my OnlyFans right now. So I feel like if you want, like Power Ranger gang bangs and slutty Barbies and like seeing me with all the people I choose to have sex with and all the ways that I choose to have sex, that's where it is.
00:59:07:17 - 00:59:17:18
Cherie
Because even on film, they're like, you have to have sex for x number of minutes. My scenes could be 2 hours or 5 minutes, whatever that experience entails. Fuck yeah. Oh.
00:59:17:20 - 00:59:37:04
Luna
And links to everything are in the description below. Okay. Lastly, wrapping up, I need your help with a fantasy brainstorm. Eventually I hope to have a large, large pleasure palace, maybe also connected to a museum that the sex ed museum across the street from a sexy museum. Maybe there's a dungeon down below or near, but we'll figure out all of it.
00:59:37:04 - 00:59:38:05
Cherie
Yeah, so.
00:59:38:07 - 00:59:50:00
Luna
If you had an unlimited budget to build a sexy playroom, house, castle, whatever your deal is, either for yourself or to represent the brand of Cherie Deville, what would it be like?
00:59:50:02 - 01:00:16:01
Cherie
There would be multiple rooms, and each room for me would have a theme. Like there would definitely be a dungeon room. There would be like a house, kind of like Stepford Wife, kind of like kitchen vibe room. There would be a room with just like everything, like soft and comfortable and wonderful with like fantastic toys all over the place that people could choose from for their pleasure.
01:00:16:06 - 01:00:42:20
Cherie
There would be a room with like a great drain for any kind of like water sports for like easy clean up. That was like beautiful and nice. Yeah, I feel like it would be like a building with multiple, both functional rooms with like suspension ability and equipment. Yeah. I think it would be like different rooms with different, like color palettes and different vibes and energies and props.
01:00:42:21 - 01:00:45:08
Cherie
I love a prop.
01:00:45:10 - 01:00:52:05
Luna
Fuck yes. Great. Thank you for that input. I will take it into consideration. And, you know, we'll see when construction begin.
01:00:52:05 - 01:00:56:01
Cherie
Some screens where you could play porn or whatever you wanted to play.
01:00:56:01 - 01:01:04:22
Luna
Oh, yes. Everyone. That's amazing. Anything else that you want to say about sex, sex work, the sex industry or anything else?
01:01:05:00 - 01:01:10:22
Cherie
I would say just not you. But for just people at large. Get out of your own way.
01:01:11:00 - 01:01:13:09
Luna
I still have to get out of my own way for sure.
01:01:13:11 - 01:01:40:23
Cherie
If you just, like, take a deep breath and accept what your inner intuitive voice is telling you is okay, and trying filter out the stuff that other people have told you. Your body knows what it wants, and this is the pattern a lot of people get into knows what you want. Having a desire, feeling shame and backing up, knowing what you want.
01:01:41:00 - 01:02:12:15
Cherie
Why are we ignoring our beautiful knowing? We know your knowing isn't shameful. Your knowing isn't bad. You're knowing isn't immoral. Your knowing is self. And we only have ourselves. So please. And this isn't just for sex like intuition is your most valuable, powerful tool in all interactions with other people. It will keep you safe. It will keep you on track.
01:02:12:17 - 01:02:51:03
Cherie
It will keep you happy. We're taught to be so cerebral, and I'm not saying don't think anything through, but trust that gut feeling, that quiet knowing because that will often lead you to a place that the real you wants to be. Without the cloud of information that we, especially as like women, have been indoctrinated into our whole lives, we've been receiving messages purposefully from people in our lives and subconsciously from every piece of media that we consume that are ridiculous.
01:02:51:05 - 01:03:19:04
Cherie
Yeah, I mean, everyone thinks that 2023 is better, and it is. But like, wouldn't you say, what our moms were taught in the 70s is ridiculous. I think most people would. And what their moms were taught in the 40s, most people would. Well, guess what? What we're being taught right now is just ridiculous. And just because our culture isn't going to figure that out for another decade doesn't mean you have to waste your life swamped down with the patriarchal oppression that is taught to us.
01:03:19:04 - 01:03:25:09
Cherie
It's bullshit. Don't keep your beautiful goddess down. She is wise and she is powerful.
01:03:25:11 - 01:03:34:02
Luna
Oh, let your beautiful goddess out of it, I love it. Cherie Deville, thank you so much for being a guest on Sex Stories.
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