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Sensual ProDomme and Dakini (a Tantric priestess and practitioner) and multi-modality healing artist with an emphasis in sacred embodiment, tantric activation, sensation play, impact, bondage, hypnotic vocalization and psychological play.

🔗 MADELINE LINKS |  madelinepryor.com

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00:00:00:04 - 00:00:28:08

Luna

And our guest today is a sensual Dom and Queenie, which is a tantric prefix and practitioner. She weaves the worlds of tantra and Bdsm together for a deeply energetic and alchemical practice that dances between pleasure and pain, desire, longing and heart centered power play for full body liberation. She's a multimodality healing artist with an emphasis on sacred embodiment, tantric activation, sensation play, impact bondage, hypnotic vocalization, and psychological play.

00:00:28:10 - 00:00:32:22

Luna

Welcome. The Incredible Mistress dominatrix goddess. Madeline.

00:00:33:00 - 00:00:36:00

Madeline

Thank you so much. While it's amazing to be here.

00:00:36:00 - 00:00:57:16

Luna

I am so excited to have you here. It's been a couple months coming. Can I tell people where we met? Yes, please. Okay, so I was doing a flogging workshop at Mr. Justine's cross dungeon Dungeon East in downtown L.A., and I met Madeline there, and we sat next to each other. And then I got to experience, like, very, very, very happily got to experience, like, some of your skills.

00:00:57:16 - 00:01:10:03

Luna

You have a lot of them. Thank you. Can you start off by telling our sweet listeners, if you had to rate yourself today on A shame, a meter with ten being the most full of shame and one being like, what shame? Where do you fall today? Right now?

00:01:10:05 - 00:01:26:02

Madeline

Maybe two to 2 or 3. I'm feeling bold today. I'm feeling shameless today. I'm feeling in my power. And I think anytime that I sit down and talk about my work in a really cohesive way, in an intentional way, it helps drop some of that shame. It's awesome. Yeah.

00:01:26:03 - 00:01:31:16

Luna

When in your life does it fluctuate like is it higher in work? Lower in work? What's it like for you?

00:01:31:18 - 00:01:56:07

Madeline

Well, it fluctuates a lot. And I've been really bringing attention and awareness to that recently. A big point of my work is to eradicate shame itself. So I'm constantly working with my own clients around their sexual shame and where it lives in their body. And so very naturally, I'm tracking that in myself as well. And I noticed that it spikes when I talk to my parents.

00:01:56:09 - 00:02:22:10

Madeline

And I have to explain this work to my sweet, sweet southern parents from Tennessee. I notice that I start to feel that shame pump a little bit, and obviously predicated on some religious background, right? Some religious shame as well. And when I'm dating, I find it to be a complicated conversation to have with people I'm dating. And I'm still navigating how to have those conversations in a way that feels really confident without experiencing those shame spikes.

00:02:22:10 - 00:02:38:18

Luna

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so in your personal life, I have the same thing where like, as soon as it's time to talk to a regular person, mind spikes. I interview a lot of people who are like, oh, my show meter goes down when it's time to talk about sex with a partner. Interesting. And mine is like that total opposite.

00:02:38:19 - 00:02:52:12

Luna

Even with people lately where I'm like sex, sex, sex. And then once we start fucking, I'm like. Do you find it easy to hold space talking about intimate, erotic things with clients? More so.

00:02:52:14 - 00:03:18:03

Madeline

Completely? I feel very low shame when I'm talking to clients and that's where the work of going into your archetypes becomes really helpful. Like when I'm with my clients, I am in my dorm or I'm in my Cuny and those archetypes are super strong. And so when I go into those spaces and I'm embodying the priestess, there's no shame there.

00:03:18:05 - 00:03:44:21

Madeline

It's it's really open and it's really confident. I think when I have to then translate that to the secular world, right, to the everyday, to the layperson, that's when it becomes complicated, because the work is complicated, the energetics are a felt experience. And so when I have to sort of translate that out and explain to people what I do in these sessions, it can be it can get lost in translation.

00:03:44:21 - 00:04:04:18

Luna

Absolutely. Yeah, I can really relate to that. I guess I'm embodying the Dharma Duchesne, but the podcaster, I don't know the curious interviewer because I have no problem talking to you at all. And I'll get really explicit and then. Yeah. Can you tell us, did you get a sex talk or sex ed lesson or any information about consent growing up?

00:04:04:19 - 00:04:35:13

Madeline

I can't say that I got any direct information about consent, but I did get a sex talk delivered by my dad. Oh, really? Of all people. Yeah. My dad got passed the baton. I don't even know how. I don't know what the inner negotiations of my family looked like, but I got my sex talk from my dad when I was probably 13 or 14, somewhere early, like early adolescent into teen years, in the car on the way to school, just trapped.

00:04:35:15 - 00:04:59:12

Madeline

I mean, I remember the visceral nature of, like, my converses up on the dashboard, my pink converses, and just staring directly into the shoelaces, being like, when will it end? My sweet dad being like, you know, sex is actually kind of fun when it's with the right. He did so good. He did an amazing job, but at that age, you can't take it anymore.

00:04:59:15 - 00:05:08:19

Madeline

You can't receive it. I got the talk that maybe I needed, but I think no matter what, it's always mortifying when your parent is the one walking you through it.

00:05:08:20 - 00:05:13:12

Luna

Was it, like, mostly biological or were there emotional or social components to it?

00:05:13:14 - 00:05:35:19

Madeline

Emotional and social components, for sure. I think it was a long time coming for them, because I was a very sexually curious child, and they knew that from a young age. And so I think they wanted to make sure they were covering all their bases, because I'm sure their assumption was like, we've got this child with all this erotic energy.

00:05:35:20 - 00:05:53:02

Madeline

We don't know what to do with her. Exactly. And now she's becoming a teenager. She's certainly going to start exploring in the next few years. So I think theirs was like a preemptive like, let's get it under control now. It didn't work. But but God bless them. They really tried.

00:05:53:04 - 00:06:02:09

Luna

Do you feel comfy saying how they knew you were an erotic child? Like a kid? Because I was very curious, but I like hit a lot of stuff. And I also didn't know what was sexual. But like, did they catch you doing?

00:06:02:14 - 00:06:21:09

Madeline

Yeah, definitely. Man, I have never talked about that anywhere. But yes, I mean, looking back, I know that they knew and there were moments where they would have conversations. I'll just say it. I'll tell the story. My mom had a neck massager, so it always got.

00:06:21:11 - 00:06:23:14

Luna

My head one, too.

00:06:23:16 - 00:06:52:22

Madeline

And I discovered it really, truly, deeply discovered it at a super young age. I mean, seven, yeah, like that age range. And they had a talk with me during that time period about the appropriate uses of said neck massager. And they were like, this is how this is used. And my dad like showed on my mom's body, like this is for our neck and our shoulders, not for other places on the body.

00:06:53:00 - 00:07:00:02

Madeline

I just was like And then the second they left the house I was like straight back.

00:07:00:04 - 00:07:03:00

Luna

You're like sorry I'm full of my own wisdom and.

00:07:03:02 - 00:07:13:00

Madeline

I'm like you guys are missing the whole point of this song. I'm like I'm not going to be the one to tell you. But I figured out the real way to.

00:07:13:01 - 00:07:21:08

Luna

Okay, so now can you tell us, please, what is sexy to you, either a personal definition or just like, how do you understand that word?

00:07:21:12 - 00:07:52:02

Madeline

Yeah. Sexy. To me, it's interesting. Like this I was actually recently asked this question and where I landed is that sexy to me is all about authenticity. It's all about raw, unbridled, unedited, uncensored human expression. And that can run the gamut. Like, to me, sexy can be a woman dancing in a room with her eyes closed, like, just fully embodied with her own erotic essence.

00:07:52:04 - 00:08:09:14

Madeline

And it can also be someone having like that deep, cathartic cry that they needed to have. And they don't care that other people are in the room. They're just in full expression of that. I think anything that's coming out as true expression to me is like peak sexy.

00:08:09:16 - 00:08:16:21

Luna

That's amazing. Now what do you think counts of sex?

00:08:16:23 - 00:08:41:13

Madeline

I think any time that you're engaging in an exchange of energy that is penetrative and moves through the body, so it doesn't have to be physically penetrative, but anytime that you are in an erotic, sexual like sacral energetic connection where you're passing energy through, I think that is some version of sex.

00:08:41:15 - 00:08:55:10

Luna

I love that. I think what came up for me is you're saying that too is it's almost there's an inherent agreement. So it's like in order for it to like, really be sex, both parties have to be like, yeah, engaged. Absolutely. Oh, that's hot. Whether or not there's physical.

00:08:55:10 - 00:08:55:17

Madeline

I think.

00:08:55:17 - 00:09:07:02

Luna

So involved. Love that. Okay. So now can you just give us a little overview of what your sex related work life is like? And tell us, do you identify as a sex worker?

00:09:07:04 - 00:09:34:23

Madeline

I'll start with what my work is, the basis of my work. A new title I'm trying out is called Body Alchemy. And so really using that as the umbrella thematic of everything that I do. And it's feeling, it's feeling really good. I'm in the early stages of playing with that terminology, but it encapsulates both the tantra work that I do and the Bdsm work, because it's all about heating up the body.

00:09:35:01 - 00:10:02:06

Madeline

Whether you're heating up the body through breath or through movement or through sexual energy, through body work, through massage, you're heating up the system like a furnace, giving it the opportunity for transformation. And that transformation can be full body activation. It can be orgasmic bliss. It can be sensitizing parts of yourself that were numb or blocked or stuck.

00:10:02:08 - 00:10:26:09

Madeline

And it can also be healing. It can be an activating mechanism for trauma release and so that's sort of like the broad umbrella. But what it actually looks like in practice is working with clients in person and working with them through exercises, techniques, through hands on massage work, through Bdsm, through impact play, through all the things that you mentioned at the top of the conversation.

00:10:26:15 - 00:10:38:08

Madeline

Also working with clients, virtually, teaching them how to heal themselves, how to turn your own body on and up so that you're creating these opportunities for transformative healing through sex.

00:10:38:10 - 00:10:42:21

Luna

Oh, that's amazing. That's amazing. And do you identify as a sex worker?

00:10:42:23 - 00:11:03:07

Madeline

I think I identify as a sex educator lover, but I'm also trying to destigmatize the term sex worker in my own body and mind. I think when I first started this work, I was like, I'm this, not that, and now it's feeling more like semantics to me. Yeah, I think there's a negative connotation of sex work in our culture.

00:11:03:07 - 00:11:28:11

Madeline

In many cultures, and it's really imperative that that gets broken down and dissolved. And part of that work means taking ownership of the term and helping people better understand it. And so while I don't have that as the tagline, I certainly do work that involves sex, that incorporates sexual energy. And so, yeah, I like bringing illumination to the space.

00:11:28:13 - 00:11:46:14

Luna

I love that I'm also on my own. You know, when I was like, oh my God, I am a sex worker and I want to be all of the sex workers. Okay, I'm going to go, oh my gosh, there's still stigma. It's real okay. Yeah. Is there a sex story that you can share that you have encountered because of your work that you maybe never would have experienced otherwise?

00:11:46:14 - 00:11:49:06

Luna

And like the sexy or the better.

00:11:49:08 - 00:12:16:06

Madeline

I don't know why this one's popping to mind for me, but in the very beginning of my work, actually, I was very secretive about the Domme work and the Bdsm side. I was at Burning Man, I was teaching, tantra class actually, and hadn't come out at all as a Dom, but after the class I had a man bit younger than me come up and ask me so directly, are you a dominatrix?

00:12:16:08 - 00:12:45:17

Madeline

And I was like, so taken aback. Like, did someone else who said something to you? And he just asked it so earnestly and looked me directly in the eye and for whatever reason, felt emboldened in that moment to say yes and he said, I thought so. I thought so I could tell by your presence. And he spoke into this desire of wanting to do a session on the playa at Burning Man.

00:12:45:19 - 00:13:09:17

Madeline

And I really wasn't taking clients at that time, but again felt compelled to say yes. So he took this young man through a multi-day scene. I mean, I had him like just an array of tasks, right? Like I had him come back to the camp the next day to do his intake. And then I had him leave me a note on my door telling me what times he would like to come and actually have a session.

00:13:09:20 - 00:13:38:23

Madeline

Then I left a note in return that had the session. It just was an ongoing scene that lasted multiple days. In this incredibly creative environment, Burning Man is just breathing new ideas and strong dynamics for exploration. And then I finally did the scene with this young man. We were exploring some of his gay and bi curious fantasies that he had never talked about, never spoken to friends, lovers.

00:13:39:01 - 00:14:03:20

Madeline

And so it was really an edgy exploration for him. I identify as queer, so it was really fun for me to get to lead someone through this gateway into their queer identity and exploration. And at the end of the scene, we went through this very, you know, erotic fantasy. And then at the end of the scene we're closing, we're sitting across from each other having a conversation.

00:14:03:22 - 00:14:19:12

Madeline

And he was like, I do identify as bisexual. I'm realizing that in this moment and before, he was very sort of focused on the fact that he was identifying as straight but wanting to explore this. And so I don't know if that's the sexiest story, but it was very sexy.

00:14:19:12 - 00:14:21:12

Luna

I was gonna say that it's very sexy.

00:14:21:18 - 00:14:34:22

Madeline

And it was really one of these, like, prime examples of someone finding themselves through the exploration of the erotic, like going on this journey and then landing in a different place than where they started.

00:14:35:00 - 00:14:53:21

Luna

It's like you've said, the authenticity, like the permission to be his full, authentic self. Yeah. And I wonder how many straight with air quotes dudes out there have, you know, at least flexibility or curiosity that they haven't explored because of stigma and culture and all of that, but oh damn.

00:14:54:00 - 00:14:55:01

Madeline

That's hard. Yeah.

00:14:55:05 - 00:14:58:19

Luna

Can you share any physical specifics from that one?

00:14:58:21 - 00:14:59:11

Madeline

I can.

00:14:59:16 - 00:15:02:17

Luna

So was it dirty? Like. Yeah. Like, how did you.

00:15:02:19 - 00:15:31:22

Madeline

I mean, we're at Burning Man, right? So it's like, it's complicated enough to just survive there. And so I had a lot of parameters around what I was open to and also what I felt safe taking someone else through, given just the environmental controls. And so I was pretty strict about no penetration, but I used a flogger as an appendage.

00:15:32:00 - 00:15:59:22

Madeline

And really created like the feeling and the concept of what it would be like to be penetrated. And I had to get creative because I didn't want to cross my own boundaries, and I didn't want to take someone through a more deeply penetrative and energetically intense scene than I felt like they were prepared to go through. And so I really had to play into the theater of it.

00:16:00:00 - 00:16:10:18

Madeline

I really had to say, okay, what can we do to create a scene without crossing some of these boundaries? And so it really became about like where my props at, what are my.

00:16:10:18 - 00:16:34:14

Luna

Props? Yeah. And I just think the energetic container of it is so sexy. I think that one of the things that I've found the most sexy about, you know, allowing, offering, being another person to have control over me in some way is just waiting to see what they will offer, waiting to see what they will ask of me, waiting to see what opportunity will be afforded me to discover or about my own self.

00:16:34:14 - 00:16:44:15

Luna

You know? Exactly. Within the confines of their boundaries and desires. That's so. That's incredible. Can you tell us, what are you loving most about your work right now?

00:16:44:17 - 00:17:13:05

Madeline

The thing that I'm loving the most is the healing aspect, and that has a lot of different permutations of how it looks. But I love when a client comes into the space looking to work on something, heal something, or maybe not. Maybe just coming in with curiosity and then having an experience that opens their body up, that gives them a new perspective, that helps them break through a block that they didn't even know they had.

00:17:13:06 - 00:17:30:13

Madeline

Those moments are what tell me that I'm on the right path. Those moments make the work just so rich and full of life and gratification and fulfillment. Those moments and those clients show me that I'm on the right path. That's awesome. Yeah.

00:17:30:13 - 00:17:36:20

Luna

When you say opens the body up, do you mean literally like energetically? Kind of both? Maybe. Yes. It depends.

00:17:36:20 - 00:17:47:17

Madeline

It depends. And it can be both. When I say open the body up, when I'm usually talking about is kind of harkening back to our chakra system.

00:17:47:19 - 00:17:49:05

Luna

And.

00:17:49:07 - 00:18:14:08

Madeline

Talking about people creating connection from root to crown. Okay. And a lot of people hold energetic locks in their system. And some of us, you know, actually have physical tension that's around those energetic blocks. So some of us have a lot of tension in our bellies or are really closed and numb at our root. And those energetic tensions can have physical manifestation.

00:18:14:10 - 00:18:37:12

Madeline

And so when I talk about opening the body up, I'm talking about like clearing that superhighway of energy from root to crown and creating a clean path for the energy to flow throughout your body, which then creates the opportunity for higher sensation, for more embodied sexual experiences, and also just for knowing yourself on a deeper level.

00:18:37:14 - 00:18:44:17

Luna

Okay, so beyond just like a butt plug training, okay, I heard it's part of it.

00:18:44:18 - 00:18:51:00

Luna

But do you feel that like do you have like feeling powers or do you have to like touch someone to know where their blockages are?

00:18:51:02 - 00:19:15:02

Madeline

Such a good question because every practitioner is different. My teacher, Lauren Harkness, we'll give her a little shout out. Yeah, I love her. She's a really powerful and incredible skinny, and she can feel someone when they walk in the room. She can feel them in her system. She's a huge feeler for me. My gift is my energetic charge.

00:19:15:02 - 00:19:33:18

Madeline

Like I'm a pretty potent energy. You can feel me walk in the room, and for me to really understand someone's system, I usually need to be either close to them or have my hands on them. At least at this point. And I work with people on zoom, and the way that I track them is like by reading their facial expressions, by reading their bodies.

00:19:33:20 - 00:19:58:08

Madeline

And so everyone has kind of a different superpower and a different set of skills that makes them predisposed to be great at this work. But it's the variety, I think, that makes it a super interesting space to be in. It's like all of these different practitioners with their different specialties and being a part of that and learning from those people has been really creatively inspiring.

00:19:58:10 - 00:20:04:07

Luna

So cool. Okay, so building off of that, what makes you excellent at what you do?

00:20:04:12 - 00:20:06:04

Madeline

Ooh, I love that.

00:20:06:04 - 00:20:07:13

Luna

Question.

00:20:07:15 - 00:20:46:00

Madeline

Let me brag a little bit. I think my greatest gift is in the intensity of my energetic field. And I'll kind of even bring that more to the tangible. I pack a punch, and when I work with a client and I focus all of my energy and attention on that person, it's quite a potent experience. And that energy can come in the form of high eroticism, like a lot of sensuality and a lot of like, and it can come in the form of stern, strict, sadistic, dumb energy and everything in between.

00:20:46:01 - 00:21:10:18

Madeline

And so where I am now, at first, that energy was just constantly pouring out of me all the time, which was impactful and erratic. And so the last, you know, many years have been about honing that energy and learning how to both calibrate it and access it for certain objectives, right? For certain clients, for certain moments, for certain experiences.

00:21:10:19 - 00:21:25:01

Madeline

And so now I can really like a mixologist, turn on like a little of this, a little of that, a little of this. You know, it's a mixture of being an actress and a healer and, you know, a writer.

00:21:25:01 - 00:21:39:22

Luna

On the fly. Yeah. You're like literally writing things for people. And also just to speak to my tiny slice of personal experience with you, like, you have some skills, like, literally just I've only experienced plucking from you, but I experienced a good amount of.

00:21:39:22 - 00:21:44:01

Madeline

It that you got a high dose. I did.

00:21:44:01 - 00:21:58:05

Luna

I did I had like delicious bruises from it, even though I was wearing pants and like, I've been a flogger and also a flogging of people who don't really know what they're doing. You know, like I'm in the learning space and you have skills. What other actual tangible skills do have?

00:21:58:07 - 00:22:24:12

Madeline

Yeah, I mean, the skills are a set or a toolbox that keeps on growing. And so I'm always adding new things to the mix. Flogging is a favorite for sure, and I have an array of impact play that I work with. I have lots of tools. I just brought in, with a little single tail that is very hot, and I've been bringing that into the work I do bondage work.

00:22:24:14 - 00:22:48:09

Madeline

I've been playing with shibori lately and really finding that space fascinating and intimidating and it turns me on all the things. And so rope bondage is coming in, and, you know, the hard skills are there's such a variety. It really depends on the preferences of clients. Like when I know that a client like something that maybe I don't do, I'm very motivated to learn it totally.

00:22:48:09 - 00:23:22:01

Madeline

But for me, I think the psychological aspect of both the tantra work and the Bdsm work is where I really shine in truly creating a thematic experience. Right? And so from putting the scene together to actually taking someone into an experience of eroticism, fear, humiliation, sometimes like that psychological aspect, I guess you would call them soft skills, but really playing with the human psyche in a responsible way is very intricate work.

00:23:22:01 - 00:23:30:04

Madeline

And so I think that set of skills that maybe I can't like taken swing Around is certainly a favorite as well.

00:23:30:06 - 00:23:51:00

Luna

Okay, one more little follow up question on the note of your excellence. Your eyes are insanely beautiful. Do you use them to just stare at people or like, are they? Do you experience them as powerful? And for our listeners who can't see on camera, Madeline has incredibly beautiful, piercing blue eyes. Not like an evil villain sort of way, just like beautiful ones do.

00:23:51:00 - 00:23:52:14

Luna

Use them. Are they part of your superpower?

00:23:52:14 - 00:23:56:11

Madeline

Thank you. So do you. Also, I think we're having some kind of some. I play.

00:23:56:11 - 00:23:59:16

Luna

On the exterior, I think I think.

00:23:59:16 - 00:24:25:11

Madeline

Well that's nice. Yes, I use them a lot. I use both my eyes and my voice. I would say is primary tools. There's a lot that can get delivered and a really direct, penetrating stare. There's a lot that can get activated by bringing the tone of your voice up and down. And that's something that I've studied, like hypnotic vocalization is a part of my practice.

00:24:25:11 - 00:24:29:14

Madeline

And so you use what you've got first and foremost.

00:24:29:16 - 00:24:44:00

Luna

It's important too, because it's like, yes, I have eyes. Yes, I have a voice. Half the time I'm using it like a screechy, funny child, you know? So I'm like figuring out all the things about power. Can you tell us now what is your professional origin story like, how did you get here doing all these things?

00:24:44:00 - 00:25:14:03

Madeline

Yes, yes. I love telling this story because it wasn't only a professional origin story, it was also a huge personal healing journey. I found this work when I was in my 20s and my mid 20s, and I was very desperate for help. I was in a long term relationship and cohabitating with a partner, and had completely lost all sensation, all sexual and erotic sensation.

00:25:14:03 - 00:25:15:14

Madeline

I was numb.

00:25:15:16 - 00:25:16:13

Luna

Physically, emotionally.

00:25:16:13 - 00:25:46:05

Madeline

Both physically. Physically. Yeah, physically numb. And I of course, when that happens to you, you automatically think there's something physically wrong with me. There's a physical manifestation happening in my body. Must be a physical problem. And I went to doctors. I went to gynecologists, I saw therapist, and none of them could really pinpoint the source of this. And I got invited to a conscious sexuality retreat that I went to on a whim.

00:25:46:05 - 00:26:07:21

Madeline

It was absolutely not in my field or in my practice or something that would normally speak to me, and I did it because I, you know, got a little intuitive pinch that I should. And at that retreat, I met my teacher, Lauren, and she was the first person to tell me that the problem might be energetic, that the block might be energetic.

00:26:07:23 - 00:26:39:20

Madeline

And even over the course of those couple days, I started to feel through the exercises we were doing, through the work that she physically did on my body, that something was shifting, like I didn't experience a breakthrough, but something was moving. And so I, being the deep diving extremist that I am, I was living in San Francisco at the time, and I bought a one way ticket to New York and basically just showed up on her doorstep and was like, hello, I want to work with you.

00:26:39:20 - 00:27:09:16

Madeline

I want to learn from you. I want to heal with you. I think that this work could be the thing that gets me through this moment, that takes me through this, like very physical, very hauntingly awful experience that I'm having. And we work together for a couple months in a really immersive, directed way. And I started to gain sensation back in my body through a mixture of body work and then practices that she was giving me to do his homework.

00:27:09:18 - 00:27:33:10

Madeline

I started to feel sensations start to come back, and after six months of working with her, I not only was feeling more sensation in my body than I had ever felt, but I was feeling the positive impact of turn on and pleasure and orgasmic energy throughout my day, throughout my life.

00:27:33:12 - 00:27:34:00

Luna

I get it.

00:27:34:00 - 00:28:00:09

Madeline

I was like getting turned on by my work. I was getting turned on by life itself, getting turned on by delicious meal, whereas I couldn't even get turned on in sexual experiences months before. Unlike this cheesecake, like, I just it changed my life in the most welcome way. And that's really what sparked coming to the tantra work generally.

00:28:00:11 - 00:28:19:17

Madeline

It took me years to claim it as a profession. At first I thought it was just like a very sexy hobby. And I kept training. I trained and trained and trained and I followed her path all the way through, and she introduced me to another teacher and started specializing. And the next iteration of coming into the profession is a different, different story.

00:28:19:17 - 00:28:24:00

Madeline

But that was the seed where I really felt the power of the work.

00:28:24:02 - 00:28:38:11

Luna

Okay, do you want to hear the second chapter? But I also just want to say, listeners, all of you who write to me that are like, I'm turned off, I'm this, I'm that, or just even people in my life who are listening here, like when you're like, well, I do like everything so much. I don't know why. I don't know the answer for myself.

00:28:38:11 - 00:28:55:23

Luna

But I'm like those sensations, like I've always been like, who are delicious. I love everything, and people are like, why are you so much? And I think I just am a feeler. Are you able to modulate that for yourself? Do you want to? Do you ever need to tamp it down? Because I think my problem my whole life I've been like, oh, I can't be to help.

00:28:55:23 - 00:29:03:15

Luna

Sorry, I really enjoy everything. Let me just I try not to fuck everybody, like, you know, like, how do you manage that?

00:29:03:17 - 00:29:33:07

Madeline

Yes, I did, I did need to learn to once again, like calibrate and use the dial. I'll never forget I went through a really intense summer summer of 2019. I'll never forget it. Where I had honed my skills. I had done several trainings. My body was like lit up like a Christmas tree and I was on Mars. I was just feeling so much all the time.

00:29:33:11 - 00:29:59:00

Madeline

My self-pleasure practice was like at a just all time high and I felt amazing. I felt like, you know, like I was walking on air, but I was not grounded. I used to have a practice of recording voice memos after my self-pleasure sessions, because I felt so creatively inspired. And the ones from 2019 are bananas like, I hope they go into my book one.

00:29:59:00 - 00:30:00:13

Luna

Day, but.

00:30:00:15 - 00:30:01:17

Madeline

They're very rich.

00:30:01:17 - 00:30:02:21

Luna

I'd love to hear them.

00:30:03:00 - 00:30:24:12

Madeline

And that's around the time that I started learning calibration, okay. And went to my teacher and just said, I feel amazing and I can't sleep at night. Yeah. And she really helped me. She she was like, okay, now it's time for the fine tuning work. Yeah. And that's really when we started to learn, you know, the subtlety and the nuance of energy work.

00:30:24:15 - 00:30:34:16

Luna

Amazing. Yeah. Because I'm like, I my dopamine baselines are too high. Sometimes need to come down. Okay. So chapter two, like what was the next iteration of getting into the Bdsm work?

00:30:34:19 - 00:31:08:20

Madeline

Yeah, the Bdsm work was its own journey. And I really came to that work sort of organically from my own personal interests. I'm like thinking, you choke me. I like to explore these dynamics, but what really pushed me deeper into the space was a really challenging, romantic relationship that I went through, where there were a lot of wacky power dynamics that were happening on the surface, that were happening just below the surface, and that were happening totally in the shadows.

00:31:08:22 - 00:31:36:02

Madeline

And as equipped as I was as an energy worker and a tantric, I couldn't navigate these waters. I felt really out of my depth. And when the relationship ended, I really turned to Bdsm as a personal healing modality. And I happened into a course where I was getting trained as a professional once again, doing a training for my own healing.

00:31:36:02 - 00:32:03:06

Madeline

That also led me into the work. And so it was a certification program, and I started the course saying, I don't know what I'm going to do with this work. And I ended the course saying, I am announcing myself as a Dom. So it was a really deep, powerful container that I used to understand myself, that used to understand, you know, what unintentional power dynamics in my creating in my life?

00:32:03:06 - 00:32:15:01

Madeline

And do I like them? Yeah. Am I into these? Yeah. Which ones are my opting into consciously and which ones would I like to opt out of? Yeah. And so it helped me have some agency.

00:32:15:03 - 00:32:25:01

Luna

Opt out of or shift even. Are you able to shift like in personal life relationship like are you like a power dynamics ninja now or like how does the work?

00:32:25:03 - 00:32:58:12

Madeline

I don't know if I'm a Power Dynamics ninja. Yeah, yeah. But I would say I'm very skillful with both shifting and creating dynamics. A big part of my work is around polarity, especially with couples. I love to do the polarity work with couples because couples are often experiencing imbalance of, you know, either someone is always in their masculine and needs the chance to flip into their feminine, or there's an imbalance between the power dynamics of the couple.

00:32:58:12 - 00:33:24:22

Madeline

There's a lot that can happen in that space that is usually polarity related that needs to be rebalanced or shifted. And so I would say I'm incredibly skillful there. And in my personal life, you know, who those who can't do teach in my personal life, I think it's easier to look at someone else's container and be like, oh, I'm going to do these small tweaks.

00:33:25:00 - 00:33:51:21

Madeline

I think in my personal life, I'm still shining the flashlight on the parts of my subconscious that want to be explored and how to do that in a healthy way. Yeah, like the part of me that wants to be dominated. How can she get explored without being in a relationship that is disempowering? And so it's just about bringing intention and consciousness to the space.

00:33:52:01 - 00:33:58:19

Madeline

It's like shining a flashlight. Then you get to see what's in the room, like what's in this dusty, shadowy corner.

00:33:58:21 - 00:34:20:11

Luna

Yeah, I love that. I feel like my version of it right now is like, I see the room and I can describe the room very clearly, and I do it in words that don't support the relationship. Whereas I'm now learning that after interviewing hundreds of people about their sex lives, I learned them a little bit different. And b I learned that a huge part of sex and romance is the unspoken.

00:34:20:11 - 00:34:38:19

Luna

And while that makes me wildly uncomfortable in many cases because I'm like, that's how it gets rapey, I'm learning some of those nuances and like looking at my own shadowy corners. But that's a digression, and I would love to hear more about A day in the life, or a week in a life, or a month in the life you travel or you are in different cities.

00:34:38:19 - 00:34:45:04

Luna

You see people online and in person. You work with couples. Yeah. And solo people. Yeah. All gender.

00:34:45:06 - 00:34:46:07

Madeline

All genders.

00:34:46:09 - 00:34:47:22

Luna

Okay.

00:34:48:00 - 00:35:13:11

Madeline

Yeah I think the practice is always evolving and sometimes it looks like a lot of in-person session work and sometimes it's mostly on zoom. And so it's in a place where I have the freedom to fit it to my life in the way that I move through the world. And so I am bicoastal. I travel between New York and LA.

00:35:13:11 - 00:35:34:20

Madeline

I have a client base in each city, and I'm also on the move. You know, I'm in, I'm in Mexico City and then I'm in Paris. And so I do my best to find clients or work with people who are similarly flexible and mobile when I can. And then I have my home basis. And that work is different.

00:35:34:20 - 00:36:02:01

Madeline

With every session. I say that I create bespoke containers and I really do, even to the level of, you know, how many sessions I think a person should have in order to work on a specific thing. And for the in-person work. It's a lot of, you know, experiencing the somatic. So it's everything from breathwork to movement, exercise to tantric massage and really activating the body.

00:36:02:03 - 00:36:30:23

Madeline

And then the virtual work is again implementing some of those practices, but also integrating these experiences, moving through coaching work, talking about the somatic experience as it relates to your everyday life. And so that's where my training lies and that's where it's led me. But every time I do a new training or I learn something new, or I meet a new teacher that I inevitably become obsessed with, then I get the opportunity to expand that skillset and add something new into the mix.

00:36:30:23 - 00:36:37:09

Luna

Amazing how are people finding you and how are you kind of like filtering? Who is a good fit for you as a client?

00:36:37:11 - 00:37:04:23

Madeline

People are finding me more often through word of mouth and through anything else. I'm still in that phase where I have, again a broad community and a global community, and they share my work. People find me on Instagram very often and that has been the method of working as far as just being present online, talking about my work in community and seeing who comes to me from there.

00:37:05:00 - 00:37:18:18

Madeline

Usually the right clients will self-select. They'll find me, they'll pull on a thread, they'll hear me, you know, talk on a podcast. Yeah. And they'll make their way to me. And it's been a really effective kind of first chapter of business.

00:37:18:18 - 00:37:23:21

Luna

That's so cool. What are some of the reactions that you get when people learn what you do?

00:37:24:00 - 00:37:51:20

Madeline

Yeah. Wide variety. Oh, wide variety. People are curious. People are interested. Some people know a lot about the space, and so they really lean in and want to talk about it. But I also experience judgment. And I experience people feeling intimidated by the work or feeling like it's too woo woo and it's too out in left field.

00:37:51:20 - 00:38:17:21

Madeline

And they need a little bit more science to go with their spirituality. And it's really the range. And something that I tell myself often is I don't need to be for everyone. My potency is my power. And so being true to my work and true to my particular style of work is what will lead me to the right clients.

00:38:17:23 - 00:38:30:07

Madeline

And being diluted and palatable and for everyone is, first of all, not my style at all. But it's also not an effective way to reach people and the place they need to be reached.

00:38:30:13 - 00:38:46:07

Luna

Yeah, that's when we get generic and boring and then everyone's just doing the dance instead of exploring their sexy authenticity. Absolutely. Okay, so on that note, what are the sexiest and least sexy parts of your work? And you could also translate that as like favorite, least favorite, but like, what are the parts that really turn you on?

00:38:46:09 - 00:39:20:00

Madeline

Yeah, I mean, the parts of my work that turn me on the most are twofold. The creative side. I'm a creative director by trade. Before these days. And so for me, the creative exploration of building a scene, creating a session, putting together the smells and the lighting and the, you know, artistry of the moment and the type of verbiage I'm going to use, the type of archetype I'm going to embody.

00:39:20:02 - 00:39:47:10

Madeline

It really is such a creative exploration, and there's so much turn on for me in that I'm making playlists, I'm making mood boards. I'm really activated as a creative as I set up these scenes and sessions and workshops, the workshops, especially the events, it all just sparks me in that category. And I think also the work itself is hot and radical and amazing.

00:39:47:10 - 00:40:22:16

Madeline

And whether I'm embodying the mother, right. And I'm bringing in a lot of loving, nurturing energy or I'm embodying the Enchantress and I'm coming in like wild and sexy and like, magician vibes, or I'm bringing in the Dom and coming in in like a stern, strict way. All of the above are such opportunities for erotic energy to come through me, and for erotic energy to come through my clients in whatever way it wants to.

00:40:22:18 - 00:40:26:11

Madeline

So I think that is the sexy part.

00:40:26:13 - 00:40:28:10

Luna

But with the turn off.

00:40:28:12 - 00:40:54:20

Madeline

There are a lot of unsexy parts to this work, and I hope someone I don't think it's me, but I hope someone at some point writes a book, a series of short stories, something about the unsexy, unglamorous side. I think about it a lot when I'm in New York, because I'm running around the city. I'm moving from place to place, like I'm going to a meeting during the day, and then I've got a scene night.

00:40:54:23 - 00:41:04:04

Madeline

And so I'm in like a Starbucks bathroom, like zipping myself into my latex. And in the summer, in the heat, just sweating through the city like bustling to.

00:41:04:05 - 00:41:05:23

Luna

It's just a carry everything.

00:41:06:01 - 00:41:34:13

Madeline

Totally caring of just a bag full of flowers and toys and tools and so happy. And it's life. When this is your business, it's also becomes enmeshed with your life and life can be quite unsexy. Life can be really messy and graceful and unglamorous. And it's funny to see that combined with this work that people think of is like, who's sexy, mystical?

00:41:34:13 - 00:41:35:03

Madeline

And I'm like.

00:41:35:03 - 00:41:41:09

Luna

Yeah, if a limo, like a hover limo could just drop me off at each location, I could just take scope and do the thing. But people don't realize.

00:41:41:11 - 00:41:46:05

Madeline

That I'm like, no. Sometimes there's a subway involved, especially during rush hour.

00:41:46:06 - 00:41:59:22

Luna

And I'm like, no, no. I had to plug in everything and set it up with the lights and do the things, and we're going to do it later. It's like a lot, okay. We talked about shame a little bit earlier, but what have you noticed about other people's sex related shame through your work?

00:42:00:00 - 00:42:11:22

Madeline

There's a lot of it. Yeah, there's so much of it. And that is probably the strongest throughline when it comes to my mission is eradicating shame.

00:42:12:00 - 00:42:23:13

Luna

I will say shame. Smashing, because I think it sounds fun, like whack a mole and I'm like, imagine it popping. But as a dominant practitioner, there's also ways to play with it. Oh, absolutely. In order to smash or destroy or whatever. Right.

00:42:23:13 - 00:42:49:07

Madeline

Absolutely, absolutely. And that's where it's really fun to play with the intersectionality of this work, because you can come at it from a few different angles. If someone's experiencing shame, I can come in as my sweet, loving, skinny and I can work with them on, you know, energetically releasing that we're doing, we're talking about it. We're doing breath around it.

00:42:49:09 - 00:43:09:12

Madeline

We're taking them gently into their experience of shame and allowing them to release it. But the other side of that coin is coming at it by just absolutely immersing in it, expanding and exploding it. And there's the soft way. And then there's the hard and effective way.

00:43:09:14 - 00:43:12:01

Luna

Like you notice it happening and you're like, do it.

00:43:12:01 - 00:43:38:03

Madeline

For me. Yeah. You call it out, you call it into the scene. I mean, there are people who want to experience humiliation, objectification, who want to come into a place that feels shameful and allow themselves to experience that shame in a safe container with a practitioner who can help them release it. And there are lots of different techniques that I'll use to help someone release their shame.

00:43:38:03 - 00:43:41:09

Madeline

But first we got to. We got to shine the flashlight on it. We have to find it.

00:43:41:10 - 00:44:01:23

Luna

Well, that's my question. How do you recognize it? I'm not sure I do. So I think I live in a funny bubble where people seem to be less shamed around me. Like when I go places people don't seem shy. Or maybe I'm just not clocking it. Or a combination. How do you know it's there? Aside from someone like shutting down the stream.

00:44:02:00 - 00:44:26:02

Madeline

I sense it. I can really feel it. It can feel dark. I normally know I'm like going into where I experience it. I feel it in people's solar plexus and their bellies most often, and it just feels like thick, heavy energy. It can feel like a total void. It can feel like, oh, I don't feel anything there, like numbness.

00:44:26:02 - 00:44:48:02

Madeline

And people will also describe it. So magically some people have pain in their bellies, some people have tightness that they can't release, like people with really tight corners are often protecting a bubble of shame. And then people will also just get flooded with the emotion during session. And if I see something come over them, I see their face change.

00:44:48:02 - 00:45:26:03

Madeline

I see them shift. I'll ask like, what's your experience right now? And people often are at the level at that point of feeling comfortable to share. Wow, I'm really feeling shame right now. I'm really feeling like disgusted with myself. And that's a really potent moment to go in and be with that person and help alleviate that. Whether it's through breath, whether it's through energy, whether it's through talking them through it, whether it's through whispering affirmations in their ear, there's a lot of different ways to play with it, but that's the point that we'll call them molten State.

00:45:26:08 - 00:45:48:20

Madeline

And that's really where Bodhi Alchemy was born, because this idea that we're taking our bodies, we're creating a furnace, we're turning the heat all the way up, and then what wants to come out? Sometimes it's the shame that wants to come out, and it just wants to spill out into the scene. And so that's the opportunity when you're at that molten state to transform the shame into something else.

00:45:48:22 - 00:45:59:00

Luna

Wow. That literally I mean, that is alchemical. Like, that's so magical. I've been trying to figure out that taboo or taboo and shame related. Like, what do you think.

00:45:59:02 - 00:46:00:13

Madeline

Taboo induces shame.

00:46:00:13 - 00:46:05:11

Luna

To go into a situation and people kind of like it. So there's like a delicious aspect of it.

00:46:05:16 - 00:46:34:05

Madeline

Well, we were talking about Carolyn Elliot and that's the central kink. Earlier, people like experiencing the unconscious parts of themselves that they don't typically get to experience. It's still in us, even if we're ignoring it and turning a blind eye to it. And I think that is a big reason that people like to experience taboo is there's some part of them that feels or has previously felt in conflict with that thing.

00:46:34:05 - 00:46:49:14

Madeline

Whatever it is with that topic and the exploration of that is something that the psyche deeply craves. It wants to make the unconscious conscious. Yeah. And so it'll find ways to do it. And taboo is definitely one method of exploration.

00:46:49:16 - 00:47:00:00

Luna

I feel like like I feel like I cross the bridge and I'm like, what happened? What do you mean? I love everything? And then I'm like, am I humiliated right now? You're just peeing on me. So what? You know, I'm like, oh, I don't know.

00:47:00:02 - 00:47:02:12

Madeline

It totally.

00:47:02:14 - 00:47:07:15

Luna

Do you feel comfortable sharing how your work has influenced your own sex life?

00:47:07:17 - 00:47:12:07

Madeline

Yes, and I think I'm still also sorting that out how my work is influenced.

00:47:12:10 - 00:47:14:03

Luna

It's ongoing for the rest of forever.

00:47:14:03 - 00:47:43:12

Madeline

Yeah, two things I've noticed. One is that it gave me so much more toys on the playground. There were so many more things I wanted to try and new techniques, new areas of exploration, things I didn't think that I liked, that I now realize I love. And so it definitely broadened my spectrum of possibility and discovery, pleasure, desire.

00:47:43:14 - 00:48:20:13

Madeline

And I've also become really discerning about who I let into my energetic field. I realized that dating is a lot harder now. It's totally it's so hard, I, I realized that I have more specificity in terms of the type of people that I want to engage with romantically and the ways that I want to engage. And also, you know, what I'm available for because if I do engage in something that's low frequency, then it's going to carry into my work.

00:48:20:15 - 00:48:45:11

Madeline

And so there's all these implications. Now, I've found that especially in the last few months, I've been grieving a breakup, intentionally not dating. Coming out of that and feeling vibrant and sexy and like I'm ready and realizing that the pull for me has shrunk significantly because I don't want to be my lover's teacher.

00:48:45:12 - 00:48:52:14

Luna

You need to, I do. I'm like, how do I know so much more than okay? I guess that's what happens when you research for five years about sex.

00:48:52:15 - 00:49:06:02

Madeline

Yeah, and it doesn't mean that I don't like to take my lovers into these spaces that I know so much about. But I want to also be with someone who can lead.

00:49:06:04 - 00:49:06:14

Luna

Yes.

00:49:06:15 - 00:49:37:17

Madeline

And I feel like I carry a lot of dominant energy now. Duh. I'm. I'm a dog. And so even I don't need to be with someone who's, like, trained in Bdsm and tantra. I won't say no to it. It's just about looking, finding, immersing in communities where they exist. But for me, I've found that dating post transitioning into this type of work and I'm truly single, truly single, and dating for the first time in 6 or 7 years.

00:49:37:19 - 00:49:38:18

Madeline

It's a different world.

00:49:38:23 - 00:49:59:11

Luna

Okay? It's not that I don't ever want to teach my lover or partner anything. It's I don't want the same energy happening in what I normally get paid for to be in my private life. Beautifully sad because at what point? Like, how do I filter, you know, all of the messages that I get from strangers that are like, hi, I'm going to be in your area, do you want to go out?

00:49:59:11 - 00:50:09:13

Luna

And I'm like, but like you're a stranger. You didn't even introduce yourself. So who are you? Why? Why was that compelling? Are you even a good student? Yeah. You know, like, what's the factor here?

00:50:09:15 - 00:50:16:16

Madeline

And that's why I pinpoint. I don't want to be my lover's teacher. Yes, but I would love to teach my lover thing, hopefully.

00:50:16:19 - 00:50:23:18

Luna

And have a back and forth. Yeah. Yeah, because we are hopefully we are teaching and learning from everyone we engage with.

00:50:23:18 - 00:50:24:20

Madeline

Absolutely.

00:50:24:20 - 00:50:34:17

Luna

But it's like having that clear container about like what's the agreement? What are we really doing here? Can you tell us know what the boundaries between your work and personal life look or feel like?

00:50:34:17 - 00:50:37:23

Madeline

Do strong. Yeah, they really are.

00:50:37:23 - 00:50:42:01

Luna

Mine are opposite. I'm like, what do you mean my passion is everywhere?

00:50:42:03 - 00:51:08:19

Madeline

Haha. Well, I'll say this, I do bring my work with me everywhere. I am constantly talking about what I do, engaging with what I do. You know the girl at the party who's doing energy work on someone in the corner so it finds its way. But I do create a lot of clarity around who is a client, who is a lover, who is a friend that I sometimes work with.

00:51:09:01 - 00:51:32:14

Madeline

That level of clarity, I think is really important because it holds the sanctity of the container. I think it helps to have strong boundaries. There, especially when you're bringing sexual energy into the space. When I work on someone, there's a high likelihood that at some point during our work together, they will feel a feeling, you know, if there's an attraction already present.

00:51:32:16 - 00:51:50:10

Madeline

And if I'm like, you know, taking their body through this energetic journey of healing. And I think it's really important for my own integrity to make sure that those relationships remain held by the safety of a professional container.

00:51:50:12 - 00:52:05:00

Luna

What does that look like for you? Like how do you navigate those boundaries, whether it's with a client or a friend or a friend client, like do explicitly say like here is what we are doing, here's what's allowed. Or do you just create it up chemically somehow?

00:52:05:00 - 00:52:31:07

Madeline

Yeah, both. I at the beginning have negotiation consent. We have that conversation. Sometimes it's accompanied by paperwork. Everyone has their preferences there. And I also hold it. I hold it during the session and even with friends. It's kind of funny with friends because I've worked on some of my best friends, and even then I'm holding the container ritualistically.

00:52:31:09 - 00:52:50:03

Madeline

So I'm coming in. I'm doing an intake with them, even though we kind of want to talk about what happened over the weekend or what's going on in their lives, I really maintain the container. We talk about session. I'll take them into the session space. I open the same way every time and there's an incantation. I'm, you know, burning sage.

00:52:50:03 - 00:53:13:05

Madeline

And again, just bringing us both into this container that's very specific. We go through session, whatever that may be. It could be Reiki, it could be massage, it could be, you know, any number of things. And then we close the container together. And often I will kind of leave immediately and be like, we'll hang tomorrow every now and then with a dear friend.

00:53:13:05 - 00:53:34:03

Madeline

I'm like, all right, we can have dinner. But that ritualistic opening close is really important in establishing in this moment. I'm your teacher guide and now we've ended that container. We've created a clear close, and now we can go back to our everyday relationship to one another. But it just helps create safety.

00:53:34:06 - 00:53:52:23

Luna

Yeah, it's so funny because hearing you describe it, I'm like, oh, that's what I do in photography sessions. You know, now I do mostly erotic photography, but even back when I used to do mostly portraits and headshot sessions, I had that same sort of clarity, even if it was a friend. And if I didn't, the session was trash and they didn't.

00:53:53:05 - 00:54:06:06

Luna

They didn't show up for their themselves, you know? And so that's I had to learn to do that. And I hear you sometimes I'm like, okay, you know, by you, you go out the door now and then sometimes I'm like, all right, we can do it. We can bring the room. Yeah.

00:54:06:07 - 00:54:11:22

Madeline

I'm glad you mentioned that though, because also, as a photographer, you're holding that space for some, like intimacy.

00:54:11:22 - 00:54:21:18

Luna

And I didn't realize I was doing intimacy work for years until I started doing more sex work stuff and then online sessions, and I'm like, it's the same. But I could oh my gosh, I.

00:54:21:18 - 00:54:23:01

Madeline

Couldn't hear before.

00:54:23:03 - 00:54:39:21

Luna

I did. This is familiar. Yeah. But now I bring all my favorite things into one place. Yeah, definitely. Getting to be a voyeur is the best. Yeah. And then like support people in that way. Damn. What about you have to deal with subcontractors. You have an assistant like when it comes to talking about sex with like, other professionals.

00:54:39:21 - 00:54:45:16

Luna

Is there anything to say there, anything that you find helpful or bumpy, or is it just regular?

00:54:45:18 - 00:55:10:18

Madeline

I think that I'm also getting to that point where I'm in a little bit of a bubble. Yeah. I don't feel a lot of charge around it in a professional sense. I don't feel a lot of charge when I'm talking to other professionals, when I'm explaining, when I do. Like my assistant is really and now she's my chief of staff, I should say she's really comfortable with the work.

00:55:10:18 - 00:55:37:11

Madeline

Explaining it to her was very easy. I think I'm lucky in that when I started my practice, especially in New York and L.A., these metropolitan cities, tantric work, Bdsm, all of these spaces were starting to get illuminated, and so there was less work for me to destigmatize in every conversation I had. It was much more accepted than I thought it was going to be.

00:55:37:17 - 00:55:46:12

Madeline

I thought I was going to have to jump off a cliff, and it's like I jumped off the cliff. But then the ground was just like 2 or 3ft below, and I was like, oh, I'm fine, and.

00:55:46:12 - 00:56:00:21

Luna

It's a trampoline we can work with. That's awesome. Okay, can you tell us now what you've learned about social and or cultural norms through your work that has either surprised you or that you would like to shift about?

00:56:00:23 - 00:56:27:00

Madeline

I mean, many there are many norms that I would like to shift in the way that people relate to one another and in the way that people relate to this work. And I think the big one that feels so obvious, I have to say, it is shifting the stigma around sex work, sex education and sex, everything in the professional realm.

00:56:27:02 - 00:56:54:08

Madeline

And it really only took me a few months into my practice to see how valuable this work is and the healing capability of it that really doesn't exist in any other type of interaction. And, you know, I know that from my little sliver of the industry. And I also now can see how that extrapolates out across the industry, because there are things that I don't offer and I don't engage sexually with my clients.

00:56:54:08 - 00:57:13:17

Madeline

And so I now see, just from my vantage point, how the full spectrum of this work is valuable. It's super necessary, like must exist. I feel like my activist is really activated and emphasized by just that understanding.

00:57:13:17 - 00:57:35:21

Luna

Yeah. Damn. I've been interviewing a lot of ladies who work at brothels, and I'm like, if that were only covered by health care, like I'd be in such a different space that like having that intimacy and like having someone like you who can help unblock whatever shit, you know? Because just because someone goes to a brothel doesn't mean they're having a transcendent experience if they're black as fuck.

00:57:35:21 - 00:57:37:12

Luna

But like.

00:57:37:14 - 00:58:02:11

Madeline

Loneliness is an epidemic and people are feeling more isolated and lack connection in a way that they never have before, that's where we are in our digital world. It's post-pandemic. It's, you know, due to many factors, but that has more implications on mental health and physical health. And our society is willing to recognize. Yeah.

00:58:02:15 - 00:58:04:20

Luna

And so yeah, we can barely talk about mental health.

00:58:05:00 - 00:58:16:12

Madeline

Yeah. Barely, barely. And so talking about relational health, it's just, you know, it's given such little airtime when it has such huge impact on our physical bodies.

00:58:16:12 - 00:58:33:15

Luna

Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like the conversations about technology and screens are only kind of like niggling around the edges too. And I'm like, and I also I'm like, it's fine if you're in the virtual space and you're spending thousands of dollars to create your erotic roleplay avatar and you're going to, like, explore your queerness that way, that's cool.

00:58:33:15 - 00:58:51:15

Luna

But like, also getting touched. I am a person that thinks that human bodies need to get touched, but that's that's what I mean. So yeah. Okay. Since you began this work, have you noticed any sex related trends in your areas of industry like either in your own business practices or personal life, or just at large?

00:58:51:17 - 00:59:06:07

Madeline

Definitely. Everybody's at least a little kinky and everybody's maybe a little gay. Those are the trends. Yeah. And and I don't say that to discount the straight people. Totally.

00:59:06:07 - 00:59:07:14

Luna

Plus you're real.

00:59:07:16 - 00:59:19:16

Madeline

You're real, and we are not erasing you. And there is a lot more queer curious city and kink curiosity than our society at large would have you believe.

00:59:19:17 - 00:59:21:20

Luna

Can we say the word query city?

00:59:21:20 - 00:59:55:21

Madeline

Is that area city you heard it here first. I'm seeing so much of it. I'm hearing so much about it. There's a lot of desire for exploration in both of those areas, and those are big trends. And I recently was in Miami, and I was in a room full of people, and I asked them to close their eyes and imagine the weirdest, freakiest, most taboo thing that they desire to do.

00:59:55:23 - 01:00:22:06

Madeline

That is it. That is a turn on for them is a kink for them. And I invited them to come tell me later as a secret and I'm not telling anyone secrets today, so don't even think it was such a fun exercise. And the point in asking everyone to do that, and to close their eyes and to go to that place, is everyone in that room had a weird thing or something that they considered to be weird?

01:00:22:06 - 01:00:24:15

Luna

What's it? Yeah. Is it really weird how much thought.

01:00:24:18 - 01:00:31:20

Madeline

They had a non-mainstream what felt to them like an edgy, maybe shadowy?

01:00:31:20 - 01:00:38:04

Luna

All of them had a non-mainstream, because then that means that our weird stuff is mainstream. It's just unique. Right?

01:00:38:04 - 01:00:38:23

Madeline

That was the point.

01:00:39:03 - 01:00:40:02

Luna

Okay.

01:00:40:04 - 01:00:44:08

Madeline

That was the point of the exercise. Why? Oh, you did it perfectly.

01:00:44:08 - 01:00:53:09

Luna

When people are like, oh, I'm sure I couldn't possibly tell you my deepest, darkest. I'm like, no, everyone has it. What's the no, it's okay. I talked about this with people. No, you can tell me, you know.

01:00:53:11 - 01:00:54:04

Madeline

I never push.

01:00:54:04 - 01:00:57:03

Luna

People, but like. And that's the point. What are we all so shy about?

01:00:57:03 - 01:01:05:02

Madeline

Is that all of this fringe stuff, like the stuff that we feel we can't talk about, maybe we only tell our therapist and maybe not even most.

01:01:05:02 - 01:01:07:07

Luna

People don't tell it. Yeah, but I talk to.

01:01:07:09 - 01:01:37:07

Madeline

That is all very normal human desire behavior. Yeah. And if I could send one message out into the world, it would be that it would be the kink that you want to explore. Or the secret sexy desire that you can't tell your partner, or the the rupture that you're experiencing in your relationship or the issue you think that is totally unique to you is actually universal.

01:01:37:09 - 01:02:04:02

Madeline

So many people are sharing your experience. You are not alone. There's people out there to do the weird sex stuff with you. There are people out there to help you heal and explore, and that's what I think people are missing when they feel stuck in their eroticism or stuck in their sexuality, is they feel really alone. They feel like their experience is unique to them, that it's a dysfunction in some way.

01:02:04:04 - 01:02:08:01

Madeline

And so once again, it's just it comes back to eradicating that shame.

01:02:08:03 - 01:02:29:16

Luna

I've been wondering lately if it's just part of the human experience because I was like, yeah, we'll smash all the shame and then it won't be there and it'll be perfect. And then I'm like, oh, but without shadow, it's all just blinding light. So like, do you think people can enjoy their kinky, weird parts without that sort of like cultural like, oh, couldn't possibly, you know what I mean?

01:02:29:18 - 01:02:37:20

Madeline

Yeah, I think they can. And I think that nothing ever becomes 100% blinding light, but it's.

01:02:37:20 - 01:02:46:09

Luna

Like the journey of scraping away the shame, maybe as part of the pleasure. Because you're right, we're never going to get to, like, purity in this human world.

01:02:46:11 - 01:03:08:18

Madeline

Yeah, I think scraping away the shame, alchemy, using the shame is part of the pleasure. I also think accepting the shame is part of the journey too. It's not all about like, dissolving and smashing and breaking. Sometimes it's about accepting the fact that I am experiencing shame in this moment, which.

01:03:08:18 - 01:03:10:07

Luna

Requires noticing, which.

01:03:10:07 - 01:03:35:22

Madeline

Requires being aware of it. It requires the willingness to look at it and accept it. And that's why you hear a lot of talk around shadow work being an acceptance of your shadow, not a dissolution or an eradication of your shadow, but an acceptance of it. And sometimes part of that acceptance is also accepting the fact that you feel shame in moments.

01:03:36:00 - 01:03:49:23

Madeline

We like to alleviate it. We like to bring it up and out. And a lot of my work does focus there, but it also focuses on self-acceptance, even in the shadow, even the yucky parts or the low frequency parts. We accept those too.

01:03:50:01 - 01:04:01:23

Luna

Damn. Lately I've just really been noticing my degradation kink like she is everywhere. I'm like, there she is again. There she is. You know, just trying to make it more conscious and all these ways. And I'm like, damn well, okay, well, at least we're playing together.

01:04:02:03 - 01:04:03:14

Madeline

Yeah.

01:04:03:16 - 01:04:07:13

Luna

You recently were in Miami for something fucking cool. Will you tell us about it?

01:04:07:15 - 01:04:43:20

Madeline

Yes, yes, and I get to shout out a team that I love so much called Unbound Ritual, which is a cabaret collective of really amazing artists. And I came in and joined them as their sensual, dominant performer, creative, and came in and did a scene at this event and then also spoke on a panel on Conscious Kink and really diving into what led me to the space, along with several other really talented, interesting, intelligent people.

01:04:43:22 - 01:05:15:09

Madeline

And it was a showcase of sorts. It was a night of artistry and performance and conversation and CPO sexuality, and it really opened me up to what is possible in these sensual and sexual spaces, and opened me up to what's possible in play spaces. It doesn't all have to be about sex acts. It can be about an exploration of the erotic.

01:05:15:09 - 01:05:30:17

Madeline

And I think we see more and more of that popping up and out and coming into the light. But it felt really beautiful to be a part of it, and I know that we'll continue that collaboration, but it really came to life in Miami that came to light.

01:05:30:18 - 01:05:49:19

Luna

Show us. And I love calling out or highlighting that bit about sex acts are not the same thing as eroticism. They can be part of it. Yeah, I think I think that's a lesson I've been learning to the more I'm like, what do you like? What do you like? What's hard about it to you? Because for me, oftentimes they are so intertwined because I'm just like, I'm here, I'm in it.

01:05:50:01 - 01:05:56:01

Luna

What would you say you're most excited to explore or grow in your work going forward?

01:05:56:03 - 01:06:11:11

Madeline

Ooh, I am very excited to build curriculum that has been where I've been over the last six months, is in this really deep creative portal, is what I'll call it. I've been writing almost every day.

01:06:11:15 - 01:06:14:11

Luna

I'm excited for you to build curriculum.

01:06:14:13 - 01:06:39:23

Madeline

It's coming. It's not here yet. We are in the gestation period. My belly is full. I feel it growing and forming and taking shape. There are a couple of different courses that want to come out. There's one on polarity, which I know I've mentioned a couple of times on helping reestablish polarity between the Divine Masculine Divine feminine. Not everyone likes this term, so I also use Shiva and Shakti dominant submissive.

01:06:40:04 - 01:07:06:23

Madeline

What we'll explore in the classes that a lot of those are kind of similarly grouped energetics, and it's about reestablishing polarity in your relationship, but also within your own body. So how are you balancing your own Shiva Shakti energy? And that one is it's in the ether. It's coming through. I think the more the more immediate piece that I'm building and that actually is already out in practice.

01:07:06:23 - 01:07:27:21

Madeline

I'm taking clients through it one on one, and then I will release it into the wild as a chorus or a live workshop series on heartbreak, alchemy and working through the stages of heartbreak. My teacher tells me and told me at the beginning of my practice when I was wondering where to specialize. Where do I put my attention?

01:07:27:21 - 01:07:49:09

Madeline

Where do I put my energy? What do I teach? Why do I teach it? She said, you don't have to do that much work. It's actually pretty simple. Listen to the field. Listen to what comes to you. Listen to what people are asking you and your own experience will dictate where you work. And she was very right on both counts.

01:07:49:09 - 01:08:13:06

Madeline

This is the thing that people are coming to me the most often for, and this is the journey that I just went on. I'm just took myself through this program very intentionally and documented it the entire process. And so to bring it out into the world and to see people start benefiting from it has been so gratifying and exciting.

01:08:13:06 - 01:08:35:13

Madeline

And it's not just for breakups, it's not for people. It's it's yes, for people who are going through heartbreak from romantic partnership, but also people who have lost a loved one, people who are grieving, a parent that's sick, that hasn't yet passed, people who are, you know, feeling heartbreak after losing a job or many, many ways the heart can break.

01:08:35:13 - 01:08:46:01

Madeline

And I think as society, we don't bring enough intentionality to the way those break ups happen. And it leaves a lot of mangled hearts.

01:08:46:01 - 01:09:08:13

Luna

Absolutely. We don't have rituals for it. We don't have spaces to acknowledge it. I think, you know, living in Los Angeles, being a headshot photographer for years, going to film school, being in spaces with actors people don't know how to grieve as their dreams transition, as their desires evolve. And so it's that's beautiful work we need. Oh, I'm so excited actually doing past.

01:09:08:13 - 01:09:11:09

Madeline

Versions of yourself as well. Yeah, that's a huge piece.

01:09:11:09 - 01:09:15:13

Luna

Yeah, yeah. And noticing it as it's happening like, oh man, I can't wait for your classes.

01:09:15:17 - 01:09:17:15

Madeline

Thank you. I'm very excited.

01:09:17:17 - 01:09:25:01

Luna

So now if you could wave a magic wand and teach everyone in the world something about sex, what would it be?

01:09:25:03 - 01:09:36:05

Madeline

Slow down and breathe. That's it. There's a lot of disembodied sex happening out in the world. There's a lot of disembodied people.

01:09:36:06 - 01:09:37:00

Luna

Don't I know it?

01:09:37:00 - 01:09:38:14

Madeline

Yeah, right.

01:09:38:16 - 01:09:40:15

Luna

Felt it.

01:09:40:17 - 01:10:10:08

Madeline

Once you recognize that, you can't unsee it as you move through the world. And we are so mind focused and mind centric that a lot of us have evacuated our systems. A lot of us have evacuated our systems so that we don't have to experience certain emotions or depths of emotion, or due to trauma. There's lots of good reasons that we don't choose to inhabit ourselves, but what it does in sexual experiences is it really limits the potential for connection.

01:10:10:08 - 01:10:38:18

Madeline

It limits the potential for pleasure, and it also keeps us disconnected from the process and from the act and from the experience and from the other person in a way that we deeply desire to be connected. So we're cutting ourselves off from this thing that we really crave. Yeah. So that's my magic. One moment I would just drop us into our bodies, all of us just and then create the level of support that's needed to facilitate that experience.

01:10:38:18 - 01:10:58:02

Madeline

Because sometimes dropping into the body after being disconnected from it for a very long time can be an intense experience. And so I'll bring light to that, too. That illuminating that space can also be intense. And so seeking support when you're in that process is really important.

01:10:58:04 - 01:11:26:09

Luna

And communities. Yeah. Support. Yeah I wish I wish everyone had a community where they could feel safe with help no matter what emotion is coming up. And we had like feelings, doulas and then the touch ones of truly damn. Are there any other sex stories you can share that you find inspiring? You. You did an inspiring one at the beginning, but anything else you can leave us with that is like a an experience you had related to your work that people might be inspired by.

01:11:26:11 - 01:11:59:13

Madeline

I feel like every client is a little anecdote of inspiration. What feels really present for me right now is my work with men. I work with all genders, I work with couples. But especially in the last few months, I've had a few key men in my practice that have just made these quantum leaps and their own level of comfortability around intimacy and like what they're feeling in their own systems.

01:11:59:13 - 01:12:34:17

Madeline

Their hearts have opened. And there's something really tender about that work as a woman and as a woman who's been enmeshed in women's work for the last decade, for my own personal practice and healing, there's been something really special and sexy and fun and inspiring and, like, deeply moving about watching the masculine come online, wake up, heal. Really like go to these deep sexual vulnerable spaces because it's not always what I experience in my personal life.

01:12:34:21 - 01:13:13:22

Madeline

You know, as a practitioner and a woman. Those are two different things. Recently, I worked with a widower whose wife had passed away years prior, and he has not been intimate in a very long time, and that was a really moving experience. I think both of us shed tears by the end of it, just like reconnecting his body with touch, reconnecting his heart, really kind of moving into this very gentle, very soft session that was just about like being in the presence of a woman and sharing space and receiving touch.

01:13:13:22 - 01:13:41:00

Madeline

Receiving, even just like a hand on the cheek, can be so meaningful, very intimate. Yeah. Very intimate. And I felt so honored to hold that space. And even though this man was much older than me, I really felt the eroticism fill the space. And it was so telling that it doesn't all have to be about sex like, but it all is.

01:13:41:00 - 01:14:15:20

Madeline

And it all is. It all has to be. And it all doesn't have to be. And it's so much broader than the spectrum that we're used to playing in. And there's so much erotic to be had in, like the graze of a hand in eye contact and in sexual touch. All of it is a yes. And so I don't know, my dudes, my dudes are really inspiring me lately from the sessions that are fun and sexy and playful, and we're discovering new things.

01:14:15:20 - 01:14:46:11

Madeline

I'm tying up a guy in Jabari because he's never felt tired before. He's never felt that containment. Wow to, you know, guiding a man through a recent heartbreak and letting him be a puddle and express that raw emotionality and cry and be vulnerable and be in his tender place, that he doesn't feel like he has the ability to access, like all of it is feeling just so juicy and so aligned and sexy.

01:14:46:14 - 01:14:52:16

Madeline

It's hot, it's hot. Dudes, we want your vulnerability. We celebrate your tears.

01:14:52:16 - 01:15:16:09

Luna

Yes. And as I was listening to talk, I was thinking about how for the past, I don't know, my adult life, I've been confused because I'm like, okay, wait, there's these narratives about men are stoic and shut down. I see that happen in groups. I see kind of like the broad strokes of that. But my experience with any dude one on one is that they're super feeling, and I have learned that this is not the experience that everyone has.

01:15:16:13 - 01:15:35:20

Luna

Yeah. And that there's something about me that creates permission. And, you know, looking back on all my work because like, photography led to success stories like all of my work as an artist, I was like, wow. In my one on one work with people, other photographer people aren't really opening up to me a lot. And then that was like the same time that my friends were getting married and not sharing their details.

01:15:35:20 - 01:15:54:02

Luna

And I fucking love them. And now I'm looking back and I'm like, well, there I was, one on one with them, holding space for them, literally telling them what to do so they didn't have to worry and then like touching their temples as I brush back their hair or like arranging their shirt and asking all the while, but like holding space and I'm like, maybe that had something to do with it.

01:15:54:02 - 01:16:12:03

Luna

And, you know, I used to work with pickup artists and with these men who were here to try to be better, to try to make connections. And for like a decade, my mom has been like, but I think you should give people relationship advice. Why don't you just help them? You you have so much knowledge and so many skills and I've been like, nope, nope, nope nope, nope, that's not what I do.

01:16:12:05 - 01:16:27:11

Luna

And then, like you were saying, it's like people always come to me and ask for advice and I'm like, I'm single, I don't know. But then I tell them stuff and it works. And so it's like it finds you and I just, I really don't understand the myth of, like, men not having feelings. They're so fucking full of feelings.

01:16:27:11 - 01:16:36:20

Luna

And they love to talk about them. And I think globally, if I could wave a magic wand, I just want safe spaces for sharing those feelings everywhere. You know.

01:16:36:22 - 01:16:40:09

Madeline

Permission that comes down to permission for everyone.

01:16:40:10 - 01:17:08:09

Luna

Yeah. Damn. That's so beautiful. Okay, lastly, Madeline, could you please tell us if you were going to create your fantasy playroom and it can be for you personally, or it could be a space you would bring clients. You have an unlimited budget. What are the elements of that space? What's it like? Or if you can't set it one, maybe like with your Mexico, one would take like this one with your client.

01:17:08:11 - 01:17:45:14

Madeline

I'm like, are you limiting me with an unlimited budget? Yeah, that doesn't seem right. I mean, so many. I feel like I've said that for every question, and there's a lot there's just so much variety. And I think part of the thing that turns me on and appeals to me about the space is the variety. In my previous life, I ran a marketing agency so that I didn't have to stick to one brand or one vertical, and I could be constantly tasting all of the different industries and all of these different companies and mission statements and all the things.

01:17:45:14 - 01:17:47:01

Madeline

And so I'm a variety.

01:17:47:04 - 01:17:48:06

Luna

Let me too.

01:17:48:11 - 01:17:52:01

Madeline

It's the only way to be right. Variety is the spice of life.

01:17:52:01 - 01:17:55:05

Luna

It is. And I always want to have a sampler platter or like bites of other people's.

01:17:55:05 - 01:17:55:23

Madeline

Food tasting.

01:17:55:23 - 01:18:00:05

Luna

Menu. Cut all the chocolates open. And I mean, not anymore. But like, yeah, I hear you.

01:18:00:10 - 01:18:48:03

Madeline

And so with that being said, I think the room that's coming to my mind right now is this Venusian gold multi sensory space. And actually there's a space that I created alongside a beautiful partner who built this room that we called essentialism. It was a space where dancers and I was doing energy work in the space. I was also tying Jabari, and we had a musician who was drumming in the hand pan, and it was this gorgeous array and cornucopia of flavors and sounds and different activities that were happening at any given moment.

01:18:48:03 - 01:19:10:17

Madeline

And that room, it was a really special night, but it lit people up and it opened their bodies up. And the people who came in and out of that space over the course of the evening have had a really impactful experience. I was doing energy work and people were having Kundalini awakenings. And then in the corner, someone serving tea.

01:19:10:19 - 01:19:39:19

Madeline

And so that to me is an ideal space where you've got multiple practitioners and you have someone doing body work while someone else is singing, and then somebody else is just organically moving their body and maybe even doing like striptease, and then somebody else is getting flogged and someone else is getting tired, and Jabari and someone else is crying because they're experiencing the beauty of the moment in such a cathartic way that that's how they have to express.

01:19:39:21 - 01:19:57:20

Madeline

And I imagine beautiful food and honey and cheese and fruit and wine and just the whole like, you know, the best of every sense, all five senses incorporated into this space. I want to live in that.

01:19:57:20 - 01:20:01:15

Luna

I do energetic. I can't wait for us to build it.

01:20:01:17 - 01:20:02:18

Madeline

We'll start putting the pieces.

01:20:02:18 - 01:20:15:16

Luna

Together for damn lovers. You can go to Madeline pryor.com p r y o r. The link is in the description. Madeline, thank you for being a guest on Set Stories.

01:20:15:18 - 01:20:27:11

Madeline

Yes. Thank you. I had such a good time and really appreciate you exploring this topic. It's so important. It's vital. It's life giving and it was a pleasure to be a part of it.

01:20:27:12 - 01:20:29:02

Luna

Oh my god. Yeah. Listen.