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Host of the Strictly Anonymous confessions podcast.

🔗 KATHY LINKS |  strictlyanonymouspodcast.com / @strictanonymous / x

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00:00:00:05 - 00:00:19:07

Luna

Our focus today is professional, and our guest is the host of the Strictly Anonymous Podcast, a podcast where you can listen in on the secret lives of total strangers. You know, we like that here. She uncovers the details of her guests hidden lives and in her own words, gives unprofessional advice, remaining strictly anonymous herself. Welcome, Kathy. Kay.

00:00:19:09 - 00:00:26:00

Kathy

Hi. Listen. You know, I feel like we've existed in the same space for so long. It's so nice to finally meet you.

00:00:26:01 - 00:00:41:17

Luna

Likewise. Also, I first heard about you from my uncle. He was like, oh, you have a sex podcast? And then he told me about. You were then, apparently. And this was years ago. He was like, yeah. At the end, she asks everyone this question of, you know, if you could go back and give yourself sex advice. And I was like, oh, I have that.

00:00:41:17 - 00:00:45:05

Luna

But I didn't I hadn't listened to your show at that point. And so I was like.

00:00:45:07 - 00:00:47:00

Kathy

So, foster.

00:00:47:02 - 00:00:55:05

Luna

Can you start off by telling us about your work? Like, how are you making the world of sex your more loving place and tell us your professional origin story? Like, how did it all come to be?

00:00:55:06 - 00:01:14:15

Kathy

Oh my God, it came to be so long ago. And I'm so glad that it did. Because I love what I do. And I feel like if I started it now would be so much harder to, like, build it up and everything because everyone's doing a podcast. When I started, it was like eight years ago. There just wasn't a lot of people doing it, but I was in Entertainment World.

00:01:14:17 - 00:01:30:18

Kathy

I had always worked with comedians. That's what I did like for a career at that time. And those were the people that had podcasts, right? And they were always like, okay, because I talk a lot, blah, blah, blah, blah. You should have your own podcast. So they were the ones, this one guy, Robert Kelly, he, got me all set up.

00:01:30:23 - 00:01:46:17

Kathy

He taught me everything that I needed to do. You know, I knew I wanted to do a call in advice show because I love, like, you know, peeling back the layers and analyzing my friend's problems and helping them with it. And, you know, they were always annoyed by me. So I'm like, why don't I just go out and do it for other people that want it, right?

00:01:46:17 - 00:02:03:04

Kathy

Yeah. So that's how it started. I didn't set out to do a sex podcast. Really. Like I said, I wanted to do just like a call, an advice show. And at the time, you know, I was so nervous that my show was going to suck and I was going to be terrible at this because I didn't know what I was doing.

00:02:03:04 - 00:02:18:19

Kathy

I had never had a show. I wasn't a host. I was never talking to people in this kind of way. So I did it on the down low. In the beginning, I didn't want anyone to know what I was doing because if it failed miserably, which I figured I was going to fail miserably, nobody would, you know, know about it.

00:02:18:21 - 00:02:37:08

Kathy

So I'm like, how so? How am I going to get guests on my show, right? Without telling people I can't go to my Facebook, I can't go to my Twitter. So I decided to go to Craigslist. And Craigslist was around back in the day. Thank God for effing Craigslist, okay, because that's how my whole show started and this is like, so funny.

00:02:37:12 - 00:02:52:22

Kathy

So I go on Craigslist and I'm like, I want to post an ad for my show to get people to call in. And when I went to, like, the community boards or wherever I went first, like, you have to pay like 30 bucks for an ad. And I was like, you know, thinking my show was going to suck and I had already invested all this money.

00:02:52:22 - 00:03:09:08

Kathy

I'm like, I'm not paying $30. Like, where can I go for free? Like, I swear to God, I was just being cheap. And the only place to post for free was in the personal sections. And there. That is how it all started. I didn't have the title of my show. I didn't know what my show was going to be.

00:03:09:08 - 00:03:30:02

Kathy

My friend told me just like start taping things and you could figure that out later. So I posted an ad in every section on Craigslist, like men for men, women for men, casual encounters, all that free. Put it up there and it was like I hit gold. I got like so many emails back from people with the craziest stories I had ever heard.

00:03:30:02 - 00:03:36:04

Kathy

You know, I taped five episodes. I had a co-host in the beginning. We took five episodes in one day. The first time.

00:03:36:06 - 00:03:37:08

Luna

Yeah, embarrassing.

00:03:37:09 - 00:03:54:11

Kathy

And then it became like this show. And so. And then I was like, oh, like, maybe we can make people anonymous, and I could do this all the time. And then it became this whole thing. But I had like probably ten episodes taped before I figured out the whole concept, figured out the name, knew what I was doing.

00:03:54:12 - 00:04:13:01

Kathy

And then it became this. And so Craigslist became like my place to find people like the first couple of years. That's what I did. I was work in Craigslist, in every city in the whole United States, trying to find people to call in my show and get somebody on a weekly basis. I don't have to do that now.

00:04:13:06 - 00:04:20:07

Kathy

But that's what I did. And, you know, listen, there was never a shortage of interesting stories in crime, you know what I mean?

00:04:20:09 - 00:04:25:09

Luna

Yeah, I do, and it's the so it sounds like you're like me. Were you like, love hearing people's stories?

00:04:25:09 - 00:04:40:21

Kathy

Yes. Well, that's what I always say in my show. Like, honestly, like, if you were at a party with me, you would see me in the corner sitting down, talking to someone, doing the same exact thing that I do on my show. I like people a lot of times will be like, well, how do you get like your questions set up and stuff?

00:04:40:21 - 00:05:01:15

Kathy

I'm like, I never have one question written. Ever. The less I know about someone, the better, because you're going to start talking to me and I'm just going to start digging and asking questions because I am naturally curious and naturally interested in people I like. I said, I do it in my life on a regular basis anyway, so what I'm doing on my show is the exact same thing.

00:05:01:15 - 00:05:17:09

Kathy

It's not hard for me, it's what I enjoy, I love it, I'm fascinated by people and I truly believe that if you ask enough questions to anybody you know, you could find that people are like super interesting. You know, you just got to like, dig in deep.

00:05:17:13 - 00:05:22:12

Luna

Totally. I know I talk to people and they're like, oh, I'm boring. I'm like, no, you're not. If you enter a question, then.

00:05:22:12 - 00:05:42:06

Kathy

There's the story and everyone you know, and I love people stories. I love human nature, I love psychology, I love like life path and like where people are growing and evolution and growth and change and issues and problems and all that real shit that life is about, you know, that's like my favorite stuff. And that's what I uncover and talk about on my show.

00:05:42:08 - 00:05:47:04

Kathy

That's what I love about it, because I get to do that, which is what I, like. I said, do naturally.

00:05:47:10 - 00:05:51:16

Luna

Oh, I love it. This totally off topic. What's your astrology? What's your sign?

00:05:51:18 - 00:06:02:03

Kathy

Oh, I know I values astrology, I know everything, I am Libra rising, Aries I'm an Aries, you know, with the Libra rising in a Virgo moon. And I'm very much all three of those things.

00:06:02:03 - 00:06:08:06

Luna

Yeah, I mean, Libra Rising is here for conversation. I love the Libra. Aries that's a built in, nice built in polarity.

00:06:08:06 - 00:06:18:12

Kathy

Their balance. But the Virgo moon, let me tell you that makes me, you know, sometimes a pain in the ass because I'm very Virgo deep down inside, you know, moon sign is very important.

00:06:18:18 - 00:06:24:21

Luna

Are you like the like, hypercritical Virgo or like the, like worshiping Virgo or like discerning like, how do you or it's not just the editor in you?

00:06:25:03 - 00:06:43:22

Kathy

I'm that, you know, I am the critical Virgo. I know I'm on time, I do everything right, but I'm also into health. I think I have a very intense interest in that kind of stuff and medical stuff, like I'm all that Virgo and an astrologer once told me because I also like, booked speakers and stuff for a living at some point.

00:06:43:22 - 00:07:05:12

Kathy

And I do a lot of like famous astrologers. And someone told me this about astrology is very interesting. And it really rings true that up until you're 40, you're you're sun sign, but after 40 you're like, you're moon sign. And I really see that in my life. Like, I am much more like a Virgo now than I am an Aries.

00:07:05:16 - 00:07:18:14

Kathy

And I see it and all my friends like, it's super interesting and start looking at people that way that you do and like the second part of your life is like more your moon sign and that's what you supposed to grow into. And that's like the natural sort of evolution in astrology.

00:07:18:14 - 00:07:32:12

Luna

Gosh, I could get real astrologically nerdy with you, but I just will say Virgo mixed with Libra like that is such a great advice giver. Like that kind of like combination there, because Libra has the like relationship and the connection.

00:07:32:14 - 00:07:33:02

Kathy

And Virgo.

00:07:33:02 - 00:07:52:00

Luna

Is like, yeah, the balance and Virgos like and I will use it to heal. So okay, that's beautiful. But I'm excited to ask you this question. And this question is my origin story as a podcaster. I was like, oh, do I count or do you identify as a sex worker? And like, how do you define that? And, you know, if you're making money from sex related details, like, what do you think?

00:07:52:01 - 00:08:18:11

Kathy

You know, I definitely would I don't think like if you were just to ask me a question, am I a sex worker? No, I would never say that I'm a sex worker, but I feel very much a part of the sex industry, and that's a difficult place to be. Like, I deal with a lot of the same things that sex workers deal with, you know, because I have a YouTube channel and, you know, you get strikes because of content and all kind of stuff.

00:08:18:11 - 00:08:30:13

Kathy

So I can absolutely relate. And I feel like we exist in the same place. But I never call myself a sex worker, though I do believe I'm in the sex business. Okay, but maybe that is the right title. I don't know.

00:08:30:18 - 00:08:30:22

Luna

I.

00:08:30:22 - 00:08:32:22

Kathy

Don't know. Do you call yourself a sex worker?

00:08:33:00 - 00:08:50:01

Luna

Well, I'm a sex worker now for other reasons, but podcast wise, initially I was like, I am sharing my very personal details. And then I was, you know, for a minute I was like, posting nudes on OnlyFans, but they were like very artistic and I wasn't really thinking of as sexy. And that's when another podcaster was like, you're a sex worker.

00:08:50:01 - 00:08:50:15

Luna

And I'm like, oh.

00:08:50:19 - 00:08:51:12

Kathy

Yeah, am.

00:08:51:12 - 00:09:12:09

Luna

I? And so that's what sent me down this deep, deep dive rabbit hole of like wanting to talk to people in the industry to like, learn about commerce and sex and censorship and all of this. So I just think it's so interesting because, like, you know, I don't know, people have different definitions and relationships to that phrase. So would you tell us now, like what is a regular day, week, month or year in the life of Kathy K?

00:09:12:09 - 00:09:19:15

Luna

Like, like, how do you spend your time in your sex related work? Like what's what's the juiciest about it for you, etc.?

00:09:19:17 - 00:09:44:20

Kathy

I mean, I would say, you know, listen, this is like a 24 seven gig for me. It wasn't the first. You know, I've been doing my show for eight years. The first six years it was something that I just did because I loved it and I did it consistently. Like I never missed an episode I posted at the same time every, You know, Sunday at 8 p.m. for six years straight and, you know, but it was like a thing on the side that I did.

00:09:44:20 - 00:10:08:23

Kathy

And then I'm a single mom. I had a child, I had my son, and when I had my son, the first couple of years, I continued to do it. I was I really it was very important to be a stay at home mom. You know, my life was being a mom at that time. And then when he went into school, it was like, either I go back to work and, you know, my podcast keeps going as this thing that I love to do, but a side project or, you know, maybe I could try and monetize this and make this my get.

00:10:09:02 - 00:10:30:19

Kathy

And, you know, it was during Covid, I was stuck at home. I lived in New York City. So we were, you know, pretty much like you can't go anywhere. I decided to set up a YouTube, set up a Patreon, really start getting into monetizing my show. And I had such a large back catalog that the minute I decided to do that, the money came in and I was quickly able to make it a full time gig.

00:10:30:19 - 00:10:55:08

Kathy

And that's my life now. I, you know, I just I do three episodes a week now. I have a, like I said, a Patreon that grew. I almost have a thousand followers. And there I have a YouTube channel. I love YouTube because of the commenting and the conversations that go on about my episodes. So you know you're going to find me on my phone all the time answering back comments there, you know, tending to my Patreon members, editing episodes.

00:10:55:08 - 00:11:11:19

Kathy

I do mostly everything myself on my show because I'm a little bit of a micromanager. Yeah, trust me, I have a guy that will do like cut out some ums and stuff, but I do like the editing of the content and everything, you know, and I do, and the fucking and the talking to my guests and the social media, everything.

00:11:11:19 - 00:11:26:13

Kathy

So I'm just doing that, and I'm a mom. Like, those are the two things that I love the best. And those two things fill up my time. So I'm always, I work from home. I really have to get like a standing desk. And I was thinking recently, I have to get a standing desk in a walking thing. You know what?

00:11:26:13 - 00:11:40:15

Kathy

You know, what are those things? And, because I'm like, I'm not moving because I could sit in front of my computer all day long and work totally same. So I'm just always working my show and working the episodes and trying to, you know, get more followers and grow my show.

00:11:40:17 - 00:11:51:16

Luna

That's awesome. So you're anonymous. Do people in your life know what you do like? Do you get any reactions when people learn what you do? Or are you mostly like living in this sort of secret space?

00:11:51:18 - 00:12:09:07

Kathy

Yeah. Well, you know, like I said, it was very unintentional that I was going to be anonymous. It was only because I thought it was going to suck. Right? But then when it became so much about sex and you know, how, like back in the day, eight years ago, the really big social media platforms dudes were like Twitter and Facebook, right?

00:12:09:07 - 00:12:31:08

Kathy

So here I am on Facebook. I have all these different people on you have, you know, it's like weird Facebook. I hate Facebook now, but back then, you know, you have a Facebook and you have your friends and then you have coworkers. It's like such a weird mishmash of people that, yeah, I in a weird way, as open as I am to people that are sitting across from me like a bigger picture like that, I was never somebody that just like, put all my stuff out there.

00:12:31:08 - 00:12:58:10

Kathy

So I kept it to myself. And then the more it started growing and then became so much like, you know, this crazy show about all these crazy sex things. I just then decided to really keep it under wraps. And then when I became a mom, you know, and I have this young boy, and even though I'm in New York City and it's a very open place and everything, you know, I just decided it's even better to keep it quiet, because I think sometimes with, like my show, I always explain it to people.

00:12:58:10 - 00:13:16:09

Kathy

Like, if you look at the titles, you know, it just sounds like this crazy. We're just talking about sex. But if you really listen to it, it's not what it appears. You know? I know how to title the show to get people to listen, but when you're listening, it's like really interesting. And it's. But I know most people won't write like most people would be lazy.

00:13:16:09 - 00:13:29:06

Kathy

They just judge it by the title. And because I have a young child, I really keep it under wraps. And it's a hard thing because, you know, I live a nice life and I live in New York City and have all these things. And, you know, I always worry like, oh, someone's going to ask me, what do you do?

00:13:29:06 - 00:13:45:05

Kathy

You know, how do you answer? And I really try to avoid those questions. So, you know, the answer is I don't tell people. And it's weird. You know, it's a weird kind of a place where I'm at right now. When my son's a little bit older, he kind of knows. I bring it up to him and mentioned things.

00:13:45:05 - 00:14:01:05

Kathy

He's only seven now, but, you know, it'll be a conversation with him. Like, how does he feel about it? Because it would be a part of his life too, you know what I mean? Yeah, but I'm fine at this point letting people know. But I still keep it under wraps. Mostly because of him.

00:14:01:07 - 00:14:07:02

Luna

Wow. Wait, so you don't have a cover story? If someone does ask you directly, do just squiggle.

00:14:07:04 - 00:14:17:23

Kathy

It's really weird. I, you know, like people don't ask. I don't know, you know, I don't get my question a lot, which is great. And I asked a friend of mine recently, I'm like, so like, what should I say if people ask you.

00:14:18:01 - 00:14:18:18

Luna

Yeah, yeah, I'll.

00:14:18:18 - 00:14:20:07

Kathy

Just tell them you're in marketing.

00:14:20:09 - 00:14:22:06

Luna

Yeah. I mean, that's true.

00:14:22:10 - 00:14:39:08

Kathy

Yeah. But then, you know, I'm a very honest person and this is what's so kind of weird about me. Like, here I am, this very honest person. Like I said, if I was sitting across from you, I really am an open book. I was always very open about everything. And now I'm living like this bigger sort of lie, almost.

00:14:39:09 - 00:14:55:13

Kathy

And so I it would be very hard for me to not say what I really did, because I get so nervous someone's going to ask me more questions, but it doesn't come up that much, thank God. You know, my family knows, my closest friends know, but a lot of people don't.

00:14:55:15 - 00:15:10:12

Luna

Wow wow wow wow. That is yeah, I'm wrapping my mind around that also, you know, because I have like so many safe for work covers, I'm like, oh, well, you know, sometimes I'm a photographer. Oh, I'm an artist. So I do these things, you know, I do so many different arts and then people don't ask questions. Too many things.

00:15:10:12 - 00:15:17:01

Luna

But for a person who loves their work like the way that you do, that is so interesting to me.

00:15:17:03 - 00:15:36:19

Kathy

I know, I mean, listen, I get paid to talk and I mean every day I feel grateful for the fact that I have this gig and my show is successful and it does pay my bills and I can do it. And I love with it. And I'm proud of what I do. And I am as open minded and non-judgmental as I am on my show.

00:15:36:19 - 00:16:02:15

Kathy

But I'm also a realist, and I know that most people aren't. You know, the world still hasn't caught up the younger generation. I feel like so much, you know, they're very different and they're very open. And thank God for that. Right. But they'll have these, a lot of people that are judgmental and like we talked about before, like being a sex worker or being in the sex industry, I mean, there's a lot of stigma still attached to that.

00:16:02:15 - 00:16:15:21

Luna

Unfortunately, I didn't realize it until, like, a year. Yeah. Those details are for different podcast, but like. Yes. Feel really feel you. I just like stumbled into some of that stigma. I'm like, oh wait, why are they treating me different? Oh my God, it's real.

00:16:15:23 - 00:16:16:19

Kathy

So yeah.

00:16:17:00 - 00:16:22:10

Luna

Tell us now, where would you like to see your work lead? What's the thing? Strictly anonymous dream.

00:16:22:12 - 00:16:46:17

Kathy

My big, strictly anonymous dream is to really grow my audience. Like ten times. Like either to get on serious or get a show, or get something to really make it as big as they can. Because, like, I have a very big audience now, but when you think about like, oh, the world is sort of my oyster, and I could get all those people, you know, I feel like I've got my audience as big as I could get it without being well known, without ever really doing anything.

00:16:46:17 - 00:17:04:23

Kathy

I don't advertise it. I never did the thing where I went on other people's podcasts. I it just sort of grew what are mouth are people google and find it. So for me at this point I feel like to make a really big jump forward, which I really want. I would need to come out of hiding first of all, and I would do it for that.

00:17:04:23 - 00:17:23:05

Kathy

I mean, I was point 100%, would I go out there and be me and do that? But it would have to be because I'm going to, like I said, increase my audience ten times. Yeah. So that would be I need more exposure, you know. So that's eventually what I want, because I really do believe that my show helps people.

00:17:23:11 - 00:17:28:10

Kathy

And that's really what I love to do. And I want to do that for more people.

00:17:28:13 - 00:17:40:01

Luna

Like, yeah, oh man, I feel that. Also, what a great incentive for people to like, you know, boost you and go, share, share, share. Tell us know what are the sexiest and least sexy parts of your work?

00:17:40:03 - 00:18:02:03

Kathy

Oh, the sexiest part. It's hard because it's like, you know, this is when the baker's baking. Is he, like, you know, thinking about cupcakes? Probably not. Like, I don't think like, because people ask the question a lot of the times, like, are you horny when you're listening? And there have definitely been times, yes. And especially more early on.

00:18:02:03 - 00:18:30:14

Kathy

But I feel like, you know, sometimes I tape three episodes a week. Nowadays I tape a lot to find like the killer stories, because I'm in my head and just listening from like a curious standpoint, not from like my pussy, like. Yeah. So it's like, is it sexy? The sexiest part for me of my show is when, you know, I get somebody on and they're really open and they're really descriptive and they could really tell some hot stories, you know, within their bigger stories.

00:18:30:14 - 00:18:51:07

Kathy

So that's the sexiest part. And that's for my audience, you know. And for me, I think the least sexy part of it is, is that I'm, you know, taping a show and I'm talking, like I said, from a different place. So in a weird way, it's kind of unsexy on sexier. I think, than some people would think, you know?

00:18:51:09 - 00:18:56:00

Kathy

And I think maybe that's always a letdown for people I don't know, like, are you horny when you're talking to people?

00:18:56:02 - 00:19:24:06

Luna

Sometimes, but I'm a unique case. I'm probably like, after interviewing hundreds of people over the last five years and, you know, spaces where I'm talking to people. I'm one of the horniest people I've ever met. Like, I like, I'm I'm extremely horny. And like you said, I have boundaries and so I can feel myself. For me, it's kind of the duality of like, there's this part where I'm like very curiously listening and like tracking with my, you know, the part of my brain that's kind of become a trained therapist.

00:19:24:07 - 00:19:43:04

Luna

And then the other part is like me, just like simmering quietly. But I've also been practicing that skill ever since I realized that the feeling of excitement that I felt was turn on. So I'm, like, almost too heavily bound right now. And I like, don't know when to, like, allow the horniness out. It's like clamped and tamped down.

00:19:43:04 - 00:19:43:16

Luna

And I'm like.

00:19:43:20 - 00:20:05:06

Kathy

That happens the more you do it. Like I have 620 episodes, I think in how many episodes did in air. So at this point, you know, we're talking like seven, 800 people I've talked to about these stories. So it's less likely for that to happen now that in the beginning, you know, and plus, like, I'm 54, I was 40 something when I changed.

00:20:05:06 - 00:20:09:23

Kathy

Like as a woman, you know, your horniest time in your 40s and then, oh.

00:20:10:01 - 00:20:11:21

Luna

I'm going to get hornier.

00:20:11:23 - 00:20:21:22

Kathy

Yes. You. When you said that, I was like, are you in your 40s? Because. Yeah, if you are not in your 40s that you are going to get that is like, oh shit, you're that's the horniest time. It's the best.

00:20:21:23 - 00:20:28:03

Luna

I'm only 33 right now, so. Damn. Yeah. Okay. Oh, wow. I don't even know what's about to happen.

00:20:28:03 - 00:20:41:22

Kathy

That is nobody I for you. I was always high sex drives higher than most of my guys. Like they like. Come on, Kathy. Like, not. You know, that's how I was too. So yeah, that only gets more in your 40s. It's wonderful. Wow.

00:20:41:23 - 00:20:59:10

Luna

Oh my God. Oh, right. Well, I have lots to look forward to. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about, like, shame as you've encountered it through your work like other silly experiences of it's not experiences. Like what? I would just love to hear your insights on shame because you have been doing this for so many years.

00:20:59:12 - 00:21:06:07

Kathy

Gosh. I mean, I think that, you know, shame in what sense and like for what I do like, well, you know, like.

00:21:06:07 - 00:21:19:08

Luna

Other people's shame coming up. Like, have there been funny circumstances where someone and I mean, your shame too. I don't know how it comes up for you, but like, I just have noticed funny reactions to things and I'm like, why is that person? Oh, I see shame. And I didn't clock it, you know.

00:21:19:10 - 00:21:21:15

Kathy

Oh, you mean when you're talking to your guests?

00:21:21:15 - 00:21:24:19

Luna

Yeah. Or people out in the world or just. Yeah, wherever, anything.

00:21:24:22 - 00:21:51:02

Kathy

Yeah. Well, listen, I mean, I think on some level, why do I not tell people what I do is a shame. No, but it's like, oh, I don't want them to make judgments on me. So, you know, I don't know if I face shame so much. Like and and not even when I'm talking to people. I feel like typically people call into my show because they feel like, oh, this is one place where they don't have to feel that.

00:21:51:02 - 00:22:09:08

Kathy

And it's like healing for that part of them. And that's what's so important. You know, it's shame. Is that something that I really deal with? I think when I was younger and I drank more and I did terrible things sometimes when I was like fucking blacked out, like I felt more shame. But it's not something that like, I really face in my life at this point.

00:22:09:10 - 00:22:26:14

Luna

I'm curious if it comes up in people's stories or requests for advice too. Like what factors of shame? Because I see it come up a lot when you know someone's talking to me and they share, they share, they share. And then as soon as, like, a third party enters the room or as soon as I like ask a certain sort of there is a shut down.

00:22:26:16 - 00:22:38:07

Luna

And I'm not good at recognizing shame. And I think my shame comes in different places than most people's. And so I'm trying to learn more about shame mostly with this question, and I'm still finessing it.

00:22:38:09 - 00:22:52:13

Kathy

Yeah, I don't even I feel like I don't even know what it means. And I listen, I talk to I include a fetish Friday, I do three episodes a week, and I included a Fetish Friday in there because it's a more it's a smaller audience for those kind of episodes, but I feel like they're so important to.

00:22:52:13 - 00:22:53:04

Luna

Have.

00:22:53:06 - 00:23:18:23

Kathy

And put out there and have for the people that find them, because I feel like there's a lot of times shame involved with people who have certain fetishes, you know, I don't think any of that stuff is bad or wrong, you know? But I feel like if I see it anywhere, I see it mostly when someone's calling up and maybe they have a fetish and they're living these secret lives and I don't know, like, is feeling like guilty about something.

00:23:18:23 - 00:23:34:09

Kathy

The same thing about shame, because I know that when I have cheaters, I have a lot of cheaters on my show and not like, I don't believe that all cheaters are the same. I'll always have a cheater story on, because I think you have to hear the whole story before you make a kind of judgment against, you know, what is going down there.

00:23:34:09 - 00:23:54:18

Kathy

And I do always love to ask somebody like that, like, do you feel bad about what you do? Like, how do you feel about it? Because I think, you know, it's, people's morals and values are their own. You make them up herself. It's not my place to put them on somebody else, you know? So I like to figure out where that line is or how someone feels about what they're doing.

00:23:54:20 - 00:24:12:23

Kathy

But so I don't feel like I get a lot of shame on my show. And I'm like somebody that most people and I think it's because I, I'm very non-judgmental and I'm very flawed, and I've been through a lot of shit in my life, and I've done a lot of things. So, you know, who am I to judge anybody?

00:24:12:23 - 00:24:30:15

Kathy

I don't and, you know, and like I said, I'm a realist. I believe life is supposed to be messy. Yeah, I believe in that spiritually. Like we're supposed to do shit and we're not here to be perfect. So I don't think we're ever really coming from that place. When I'm talking to people, you know, it's not the time for that.

00:24:30:15 - 00:24:48:23

Kathy

It's more the time to be open and release. I feel like that's what I hope to do with my show is take away that shame. And I feel like when I say my show helps people, like, those are the emails that I get like, thank you so much for doing your show because you made me feel not alone, or you made me feel like there's other people like me, you know?

00:24:48:23 - 00:25:11:00

Kathy

And I don't have to feel bad that I wear pantyhose, you know? I mean, like, there's just, like, all these things that people are doing that no one wants to fucking talk about. So I think in a weird way, I'm just like, I'm trying at all times to take that away, not really focus on it by just getting these two stories and just putting the facts out and letting people know that this is what real people do sometimes, you know?

00:25:11:02 - 00:25:35:09

Luna

Yeah, that's so interesting. And I as I hear you talk, I'm reflecting on the fact that, like when I'm interviewing a guest, I have this beautiful container of trust, you know, people know my work well enough to know that if they come on their show, they're not going to get judged. It's a safe space. I say if it's legal and consensual, I'm going to celebrate whatever you're into and in the regular world, or even even in my community, outside of being one on one with a guest.

00:25:35:15 - 00:25:53:16

Luna

Just yesterday I had an experience where someone emailed me and they're like, well, you shamed me to dinner and I'm like, what? How? Where? We are not a guest. But, you know, we'd had we'd had an interaction off pod replaying it in my head. I was like, well, so you've seen five years of my work, like, I don't know what you mean.

00:25:53:16 - 00:26:18:21

Luna

And that's, you know, that's the thing where I and hilariously, it was in a conversation about explicit communication because I rely on explicit communication, because I miss a lot of the, like, secret social signals. But most people, you know, kind of bump around into. So it was very interesting. And I've also noticed that, in other circumstances where maybe people don't know that I'm a podcaster, but they are trying to engage with me sexually in some of the sex work here, things that I'm doing.

00:26:18:23 - 00:26:43:02

Luna

I'll get totally blindsided because I'll be like having a conversation. I'm used to people coming to me with all their trust, and then suddenly someone will like, be like, right? Like they'll get kind of like mad or they'll like, accuse me of something. And I'm like, wait, what's happening? And then I realize that it's related to their own shame or self judge or whatever, you know, and I've read all Brené Brown stuff on shame versus guilt and the I think guilt is like I am bad or shame, I can't remember.

00:26:43:06 - 00:26:44:11

Luna

We'd have to go look at her. Yeah.

00:26:44:13 - 00:26:48:02

Kathy

But I'm like, yeah, right. Like I'm, I'm a bad person as opposed to I did something.

00:26:48:02 - 00:26:49:11

Luna

I did something bad. Yeah.

00:26:49:13 - 00:27:12:22

Kathy

Yeah. I'm so, you know, I like me being like, that's, you know, you made me see, maybe I think I deal with shame, quote unquote and other people bringing it up on YouTube. And that's what I love about YouTube, because I get these really horrifying, super judgmental comments over there. And that's what I love. I love to not I love a good to be, you know, I'm not afraid of that.

00:27:12:22 - 00:27:28:16

Kathy

And I like and I think that those conversations have to be had. And I feel like sometimes, you know, and I love answering back to those people and sticking up for my callers or what they're doing or what they've done and go against that person sort of judgment and try and change your mind and have them see it in a clearer way.

00:27:28:16 - 00:27:49:01

Kathy

Because I do believe the way I see it is correct. I just think so many people look at things with blinders on, especially the things we're talking about. So I feel like, you know, I think I'm in that space more on YouTube. And that's why I love YouTube as my show, because I want to go there. I want people to feel less of that and not put that on to people because that's fucking wrong.

00:27:49:01 - 00:28:07:19

Kathy

And like I said before, like I really believe that everybody's morals and values, like you make it up yourself like that, you know? And to me, what's most right is that you're not doing something that you think is wrong. You know, whether it that's something that someone else thinks is wrong or right, it's not your fucking business. It's like, you know, if that's how you feel.

00:28:08:01 - 00:28:25:12

Kathy

So I love those kinds of conversations. Bring up shame and try to shame one of my guests. And we'll have a good debate. And hopefully I'll change your mind because I want to help those people because sometimes it's just ignorance, you know, and it's not such a bad thing. Or people don't know, you know, and sometimes you turn people around and I love that.

00:28:25:14 - 00:28:33:13

Luna

I love that too. Also very inspiring because I've been sort of like ignoring YouTube because I'm like, I don't know how to deal with that. And now I'm like, oh, I party.

00:28:33:17 - 00:28:58:02

Kathy

Oh, I have a love hate relationship with YouTube. It's like a bad boyfriend, but I can't get away because. Because like I said, I do love having these conversations and because I also love the conversations that happen about sex. And I want, you know, my whole goal is to make people more open and less judgmental about it, that I feel like the episodes live on over there, and I like YouTube the most for the conversation.

00:28:58:02 - 00:28:59:14

Kathy

That's really what I use it for.

00:28:59:20 - 00:29:00:10

Luna

Amazing.

00:29:00:10 - 00:29:01:20

Kathy

You know? And it's awesome.

00:29:01:22 - 00:29:10:00

Luna

That is awesome. I would love to hear if you're willing to share how your sex related work has influenced or informed your own sex life.

00:29:10:02 - 00:29:29:19

Kathy

Oh, you know what? It's definitely made me realize, like, I'm into certain things that I didn't know I was into for sure. And let me tell you, listen, when I first started doing my show, I had no idea that there were like a man that wanted to watch their wives fuck other people. Like, the whole thing was very interesting to me.

00:29:29:19 - 00:29:35:16

Kathy

And then I started to think, before I knew that there was like a queen word, right? I start to think like.

00:29:35:16 - 00:29:36:11

Luna

Oh, I.

00:29:36:11 - 00:29:53:19

Kathy

Think I have that a little bit because, you know, I'm not the type of person that's in long term relationships a lot. And but at any time, like not in a long term relationship, I always have someone I'm getting my needs met with. You know, I have had very like long term booty calls. And yeah, I always am getting serviced, you know, and whatever.

00:29:53:19 - 00:30:09:22

Kathy

And I would always be like, I mean, we start to think like I used to like beg my booty call to tell me who fucked before me and like all this stuff. And I started to like, I was able to put things together and be like, oh, I'm a little bit. And then I realized that's the the word is cut queen because I, you know, I'm a little bit of a cock.

00:30:09:22 - 00:30:31:17

Kathy

I kind of get that thing. I could see myself getting off on that. I also, you know, always tried to do every different type of like open relationship and different kind of thing when I was younger before was like in style. So my show has given me a lot of insight of how to do that kind of stuff properly, you know, in the right way so that you could be successful.

00:30:31:17 - 00:30:52:15

Kathy

So to me, like the next relationship I went in, I would do it and be very intentional about having it be a non-monogamous, open relationship where we could try these things that I'm into now. I'm also into tease and denial. I never really realized that. The fact that I would like dry hump someone when I was 40, that that meant that I was into that.

00:30:52:15 - 00:31:00:07

Kathy

I just thought I was like crazy, you know, people would be like, why are you dry humping Kathy when you could, like, talk? I'm like, have you tried dry humping? Like, yeah.

00:31:00:09 - 00:31:02:16

Luna

Look at her. So I love it too, actually.

00:31:02:16 - 00:31:05:06

Kathy

Right. Yeah. You like tease in denial, right? I mean.

00:31:05:06 - 00:31:07:11

Luna

Like, oh, yeah, a whole everything. Yeah.

00:31:07:12 - 00:31:23:14

Kathy

Like those boundaries. Like, I had this one guy that I was sleeping with, and I would love to just be like, you know, we were not allowed to, like, do anything, like, we can't even, like, one day I was like, we can't even kiss. But. So we were just, like, laying on top of each other, like breathing and doing everything and rubbing in.

00:31:23:14 - 00:31:40:05

Kathy

All the clothes are on and, you know, and I don't know, like, that whole tease and denial thing can be so fucking hot if you, know how to get into it, you know. Yeah. I had a boyfriend that would only put his dick in half. I the halfway in, I called him the. I called it the halfway in game.

00:31:40:06 - 00:31:57:20

Kathy

And my friends would always be like, you know, like, how can you stay with him? And I'm like, you don't understand. Like, I started teaching people about the half way in game, and I played the half way in game with other guys just to prove that it's like the hottest thing ever. And it's like, you know, when you're like, fucking someone.

00:31:57:20 - 00:32:13:19

Kathy

Like, you need it harder and faster when you're getting closer to orgasm because you're so used to like the feeling, whereas like when that guy would only put it halfway because he had some weirdo commitment issues, and we would be like, laying there not doing anything. The slide latest movement.

00:32:13:19 - 00:32:14:17

Luna

Yes.

00:32:14:19 - 00:32:33:10

Kathy

Would make that feeling so fucking intense, you know. And it was that tease and denial. It's just like they're you're making out and you just. And I would like cough and it would be like the hardest pounding I ever had because you're not over like the sensation you have nothing that the littlest thing. You know what I mean?

00:32:33:10 - 00:32:50:00

Kathy

It's not like when you're regular begging and you need more because you're so used to it. So the halfway in game was like really hot to me. And I've done it with other guys, like for fun. Like, that guy had issues and that's why he was doing it. But I have played the half way in game where you just put it in and you do not move.

00:32:50:00 - 00:32:53:00

Kathy

Yes. And you just do everything. Have you done that?

00:32:53:02 - 00:33:13:14

Luna

Not halfway, but when I was all the way, all the way. So I learned about it through Mormon friends growing up. And they were like, it's called soak in. You just put it in and you don't move. And I was like, and that's something that always to. When I got my first boyfriend, finally, that was the first time I felt like at 22, safe enough to be like, can we try this thing?

00:33:13:14 - 00:33:16:10

Luna

And we did. And I got so turned on by it.

00:33:16:12 - 00:33:18:00

Kathy

Oh my God, wait, are you Mormon?

00:33:18:05 - 00:33:20:02

Luna

No, no, I just I'm for a.

00:33:20:02 - 00:33:22:14

Kathy

Lot of you, not lose your virginity till you're 22.

00:33:22:17 - 00:33:34:10

Luna

I was 19 when I did lose it. I got rejected the first four times I tried. It wasn't for lack of trying. Like, there's a reason I'm trying to figure out sex. Still, I just didn't know it was an option for a while.

00:33:34:12 - 00:33:37:12

Kathy

So it's called soaking. That's so when you just put.

00:33:37:12 - 00:33:40:01

Luna

It in, don't. That's what they said, I don't know. Yeah.

00:33:40:01 - 00:33:57:06

Kathy

Yeah, yeah. And it's hot. Yeah. So that's what I, what I've done more with the other guys. It's more, it's more soaking more. Put it all the way. Yeah. And then don't do anything. Just make out and just sit and don't allow yourself to do anything. And it's like really hot. So yeah, my show has made me realize I'm into all kinds of, things.

00:33:57:06 - 00:34:16:12

Kathy

But I was really young way before I started my show. I always was very interested in sex. Like, unlike you, I couldn't wait to lose my virginity. I think I was like 14, looking for someone to have sex with because I really just wanted to live in the world. I wanted to be grown up. I wanted to be able to answer questions in Cosmo magazine about sex.

00:34:16:12 - 00:34:35:01

Kathy

Like, I just wanted to get it fucking on. So I was always like trying to get there. So I lost my virginity. But I when I was really young, I was always like, really? I would always be like, oh, you know, when I'm like 60, I'm going to be like a swinger. I saw this really great documentary called The Lifestyle and it was like really great.

00:34:35:01 - 00:34:53:10

Kathy

This was a long time ago, and I remember thinking like, oh, that's what I'm going to do. And you know, I've kind of been there, done that. Like, why not? You know, and it's just so funny when I think back to like who I am then to who I am now, now, like, I'm in that world and I'm talking to people and I'm still teetering sort of on the outskirts of it.

00:34:53:12 - 00:35:02:17

Kathy

Yet I really am like in that world and talking to these people. And this was what was fascinating to me, like 30 years ago, you know, I wasn't. Yeah.

00:35:02:18 - 00:35:19:16

Luna

Damn. Oh, that's so cool. Okay, here's a question for you. What are your work life and personal life boundaries like, especially in terms of your own sex life, like I find myself lately, like really having to work to stay out of interviewer podcaster mode on dates. Like, what's your vibe like there?

00:35:19:18 - 00:35:50:03

Kathy

Yeah, it's hard because it's always like, when do I bring up what I do? Right? And then how does somebody think about it? But I feel like for me, I'm not I haven't dated in a little bit because of my son, but I feel like my podcast and what I do is the perfect intro into eventually letting somebody know that I would be dating, that I would be more open to something more alternative, you know what I'm saying?

00:35:50:03 - 00:36:10:06

Kathy

So for me, it's like a positive. But you know, being a single mom, like I haven't really dated. I, you know, I have a booty call person. And that person knows what I do, but I feel like the next relationship I would have, I would lead with my show and I would 100% let them know. And I feel like it would be helpful.

00:36:10:11 - 00:36:25:21

Kathy

You know, it's going to help lead the conversation. And because like I said, through my show, I realize, like, I wouldn't have a monogamous relationship, I would want an open relationship. So, you know, they'd have to be down for that. And my show is the perfect intro to the conversation, right?

00:36:26:03 - 00:36:39:14

Luna

Yeah. What about like, boundaries in terms of talking either with an editor or even with guests that you talk to? Like, do you have to, like, enforce stuff like, how do you kind of navigate that? It seems like you're probably pretty good at it. I feel like.

00:36:39:16 - 00:36:56:21

Kathy

Yeah, like it's funny because, I once had this, fetish person. She was a woman who was emailing the. I had, like, a fetish guy on. And this the girl that he was dealing with, that was buying stuff from, like, emailed me about him and trashing him and saying that's rude things. And I was like, wow.

00:36:56:21 - 00:37:14:23

Kathy

I don't sort of experience him in that way. You know, I, you know, you would think in our job and maybe you feel the same way. You know, I've talked to all these people, these men, these almost 700 love and women that doing all these kind of crazy things. It's very rare that people cross boundaries with me.

00:37:14:23 - 00:37:33:00

Kathy

I mean, I could probably count on my two hands any time that, like, I got a dick pic or anything like that. I just feel like I know that line really well, and sometimes people will. And this goes back to your sex worker question. Like sometimes somebody will say like, can you send a picture of your feet? Or why don't you post sexy pictures of yourself?

00:37:33:00 - 00:37:48:19

Kathy

I'm like, well, there's a difference. Like I'm a host of a show, like I'm hosting a show, like I'm a talker. Like, that's what I do for a living. So like, I give you pictures of my guests and all that stuff. It's about them, you know, that that's. But for me, I'm like the host, so it's like a different kind of a thing.

00:37:48:21 - 00:38:08:20

Kathy

So I feel like people really respect my boundaries. I don't get a lot of guys that push it, but I'm very clear with what I do. That's some place where I'm very black and white, like, I just don't cross those lines. I had a girl once call it, and she fucked some really famous YouTuber guy that kind of does what we do and stuff.

00:38:08:20 - 00:38:22:09

Kathy

And I was like, oh, that. And I was a little judgmental. I was like, I can't believe he's like fucking the his guests, you know, on his show and stuff. And I'm like, well, maybe if I was a guy, I do that. But like, I just don't, you know, I don't fish in that pond. It's like, what I do for a living.

00:38:22:09 - 00:38:37:23

Kathy

And I love the people that I talk to, and I feel very close to them after we speak. And a lot of times they keep, you know, and talk and contact with me and I'm always looking for updates, but I don't cross boundaries at all. I don't make friends with people. I don't ever let them know who I am.

00:38:37:23 - 00:38:46:08

Kathy

I, you know, I, I keep it very much like this is my job and that's, you know, I'm very professional. I always have been in any job that I have.

00:38:46:10 - 00:39:02:23

Luna

I mean, that's awesome. I feel like the more that I mix my personal and professional life together, like I've just been like mixing for the past several years, and I'm like, I don't know what the lines are. I've been an artist. What do I who artists are allowed to fuck people, right? And then, you know, I have crossed that line a couple times and been like, oh shit, I'm not doing that again, you know?

00:39:02:23 - 00:39:19:11

Kathy

So yeah, but that guy is an artist too. And I think that that's okay, though, you know what I mean? Like, I was like when I found myself being judgmental, I was kind of like, why should I be like, why not? That's just not the way I roll. But what is the problem? You know? And so I think that that's okay.

00:39:19:11 - 00:39:39:10

Luna

You know, there can be imbalance, though. And what it took me a minute to realize. And then I had to kind of remake some rules for my own self because I was like, this is fun. And it's a friend of a friend. And this is and, I didn't understand the nature of parasocial relationships. I didn't understand, like, the projection or the people think I'm fancy, you know, because of beat, because they've listened to me, because I've been in their ear.

00:39:39:10 - 00:39:55:10

Luna

And so that was a big learning curve for me. And kind of like not understanding, like why, you know, I think what I look for in lover ships now is, is just like a blind desire, because when we have it and it's funny, it doesn't have to be exactly the same. But I didn't know how it was different.

00:39:55:10 - 00:40:06:15

Luna

I want to at least have some consciousness out of like, oh, is this person trying to be like a medium star fucker? Or like, do they like, you know, are they attracted to me for personal reasons? You know? Yeah. Body reasons. Animal. Yeah.

00:40:06:15 - 00:40:26:08

Kathy

Yeah, totally. I mean, listen, I get some of obsessed fans and I try to respond to a lot of people's DMs and YouTube comments and stuff. But as I've grown, it's like, I can't do it as can't keep up. Yeah, I find, though, that it's actually better when you don't respond too much because then they lose that boundary.

00:40:26:12 - 00:40:27:11

Luna

Then yes.

00:40:27:11 - 00:40:36:17

Kathy

They I mean, I've had some, you know, fans that like they're literally having arguments with me as if like we broke up and I'm like, I don't know where you're creating that. You know what I mean? Right?

00:40:36:17 - 00:40:37:12

Luna

And I just got one.

00:40:37:13 - 00:40:59:17

Kathy

So yeah, you have to, I realize that you can't really be so consistent and stuff because then they think something else is going on and they don't really get. And I think I get why people don't understand it, but, sometimes I have to explain, like, listen, I have like a million of you in my inbox and in my DMs and my things, you know, and I love every single person that listens to my show.

00:40:59:17 - 00:41:20:11

Kathy

I value them so much. I do try to get back to everyone but the people that I, and I think you could always sense, once you get used to it, the person that's going to get a little addicted to you and you know, I intentionally I'm not consistent with that person as much because I don't want them to get addicted to me, you know, because I can't cross that boundary and I'm not going to become friends.

00:41:20:11 - 00:41:28:06

Kathy

And it's not going to go past that because I'm, you know, I don't have that time. And I it's just that's not what I do. Yeah.

00:41:28:06 - 00:41:41:16

Luna

Yeah. It's so interesting too. I love that you say that you value all of your listeners because I do too. I'm like, oh, I value you so much. And it's so funny when I realize I'm in a situation where I'm like, oh, they're not. They're not valuing me as much as I'm valuing them. There is an imbalance here, and it's reverse.

00:41:41:16 - 00:41:43:22

Luna

Okay. You know, like the expectations they're so.

00:41:44:00 - 00:42:00:16

Kathy

Yeah, they could be mean sometimes and like you know it's and it's like wow. But you know I never understood like, you know, listen I'm a person that I love music, I love art, I love movies, I love pop culture, you know? So I'm a fan of people, you know, and I always felt like embarrassed to be a fan in a weird way.

00:42:00:16 - 00:42:24:15

Kathy

I can't explain. Like, I would never be someone that would go and, like, ask someone for an autograph because I'm like, oh, how embarrassing. But now that I actually make something and put it out there, I really realize, like how it's so not that like it's not embarrassing to be a fan. Like it's like the people like, I don't know, like I love my listeners, like the way I like, if they didn't listen or they I would have nothing.

00:42:24:15 - 00:42:39:10

Kathy

So I never really realized how it was on the opposite. And you know what I mean? That if I went up to somebody who I loved and was like, fawned over them, that they would just love that because that's how I feel now, you know what I mean? Someone that loves my show, I'm like, I love that you love my show.

00:42:39:10 - 00:42:59:17

Kathy

Like, that feels so amazing because it's like what you create. You know, you're an artist, right? You create more than your show. It's like for somebody to appreciate your art. You know that feeling, you can't understand it. So I never realized that until I was on the opposite end that, you know, to appreciate someone's thing and let them know that you love their shit is like, awesome.

00:42:59:17 - 00:43:09:15

Kathy

Because I think most people who create stuff in everything, you know, you hear people say it like they love their audience. Now I get it, because that's how I feel for my people, you know?

00:43:09:15 - 00:43:21:10

Luna

Totally well. And it's also about how the appreciation is shared for me. I think, you know, like I when someone's like, I love your show, I'm like, me too. Like it was like I'm like, well, like you like the same things I like basically.

00:43:21:15 - 00:43:23:05

Kathy

Yeah, yeah.

00:43:23:07 - 00:43:40:10

Luna

Okay. So I would love to know now what you have like, learned about social and or cultural norms through your work that you've either found surprising or interesting. This is kind of like a broad pattern question, but I'm curious what you have noticed through talking to 700 plus people in this way.

00:43:40:14 - 00:44:03:20

Kathy

Well, I think it's, all the fetishes that exist, like, I mean, you know, I didn't realize how many men wore pantyhose underneath their pants. I didn't realize how many guys really have a thing for their girl. Fucking another guy. I think I always knew that a lot of guys were blowing guys behind everyone's backs. I mean, like, come on, you know.

00:44:03:21 - 00:44:06:06

Luna

Did you know? I didn't know.

00:44:06:07 - 00:44:24:14

Kathy

I knew because I think most people are a little bisexual. I mean, I think the end of the spectrum is more, I think is, you know, the less people exist on either hetero or homo it most people on some place in the middle, you know, there's so many more women that are sort of out about being into women, but not as many guys.

00:44:24:17 - 00:44:41:18

Kathy

Why? Because there's a stigma, not because there's not as many guys that are into. Yeah. You know, so I always knew that existed. I think I didn't know about all these other things. And just when I think I've heard it all, I hear about something else. And that's what I love. I think it's like fun and it's super interesting.

00:44:41:18 - 00:45:16:14

Kathy

And who the fuck cares what people do? I don't know why people actually are so judgmental about what people do in their sex life. Like you said, as long as it's legal and consensual, you know, I don't know why people get so tired. I think it's up some sort of like inner jealousy because they wish they could do these kind of thing himself or something, I don't know, but it always is interesting to me to learn about all the different things that people are into, all the fetishes, all the kinks, you know, all the interesting stories and the different kinds of things that people do when it comes to sex, I find fascinating.

00:45:16:14 - 00:45:21:13

Kathy

And that's what I've learned from my show, that it's it's always fun and super interesting.

00:45:21:15 - 00:45:32:09

Luna

Yeah, yeah, yeah. On that note, like, which of these norms it sounds like maybe the judgment stuff, like what would you like to shift? Like if you could just be a culture, go this way. Like, what would you what would you be in charge of?

00:45:32:11 - 00:45:50:22

Kathy

You know, I think that and I think it's already shifting. I mean, when I grew up, I told you I couldn't wait to lose my virginity. I fucked whoever I wanted. I didn't need to be in a relationship. I was actually rarely in a relationship. But if I want to fuck a guy, I would like. But when I was growing up, because I'm in my 50s, like, no girls did that.

00:45:50:22 - 00:46:13:14

Kathy

Like I was the minority, you know, I it was like I was a slut, quote unquote. You know, like my guy friends would say to me, I can't tell you how many times I heard like, oh, Kathy, you know, you're not the kind of girl you marry. You're like the kind of girl you fuck, you know, and totally no, I, I, you know, that Madonna for thing, I think for women, you know, and I think it's already happening because most women are like me now.

00:46:13:14 - 00:46:33:01

Kathy

I think I was like, I was ahead of my time, you know, that women are able to like sex and enjoy sex and also be a mom and being everything else, you know, and it's just a part. It just like a man can, you know, and I think that that is what I want. I that's why I love having women on my show.

00:46:33:01 - 00:46:50:08

Kathy

That fucking love sex and do crazy things, you know, because and I love YouTube for people that go there and say shit because I'm going to stick up for them because I think it's important. Like women like sex as much as men. But I think a lot of times they had to repress it because of the stigma around that.

00:46:50:08 - 00:47:07:22

Kathy

And I hate that because like I said, I'm older and I grew up with that, and I was like, I'm going to fuck whoever I want. Like, I used to have the saying and I drew a picture of it, and you're an artist with a love. My picture was like, I was always like, I say whatever I want and I fuck whoever I want, and I feel most free and things that originate from my lips.

00:47:08:01 - 00:47:31:09

Kathy

Lips, meaning my lips on my mouth and lips on my pussy like I do what the fuck I want. And I always have. And I think that women should, you know. So I like for that to be I the Donna whore complex to be gone, you know, and for people to be less women to be less oppressed. And I also think for men, I hate the homophobic shit that's out there in my mind.

00:47:31:09 - 00:48:03:11

Kathy

Even the guys that are doing it, they'll be like, oh, but, you know, I like to think, but I'm not gay. I'm like, but like, okay, maybe you're not, but like, why would that be a bad thing? It's still like a thing. And even in the swinger community, I can't tell you how many swingers I have on. And we always talk about how even in that world that's so super open, guy and guy action is still stigmatized and it's so it's back and I can't believe I'm like, you guys need the the PR person for the transgender community because they have like, surpassed you.

00:48:03:11 - 00:48:21:16

Kathy

Like, why is that more accepted than gay man? Like what the fuck is why do people have such an issue? It's like so ridiculous. And I think that that's terrible. And I think that, you know, I think that that needs to be stigmatized. You know, there are like I said, I, you know, I love to have a guy on that's blown other guys.

00:48:21:18 - 00:48:24:12

Kathy

And he's going to admit it because that shit's going down.

00:48:24:15 - 00:48:31:02

Luna

Yep. Totally. Anyway, yeah, I fucking love that also. So areas of you to be such a trailblazer. Just saying. Right.

00:48:31:03 - 00:48:51:23

Kathy

I am, yeah very much areas that with me, like I said, in my first 40 years I was the areas doing whatever I wanted. It wasn't really accepted. I mean, you know, and I, I never stopped myself or it didn't really matter. And I had my friends accepted and I moved to New York City. And that was like a great place for me to be because it is more accepting.

00:48:51:23 - 00:49:12:01

Kathy

But where I grew up in the suburbs, I felt like a freak, you know, because it was like everybody read the book and did what they're supposed to do and got married and whatever. And I just think God, I didn't do any of those things. You know, I had a child when I was older by myself. I just, you know, I just did everything my own way when it was right for me.

00:49:12:01 - 00:49:21:08

Kathy

And I wish for other people to be more that way. But I think people are, you know, you're from a wet. You're from a different generation, like, you see these things in your generation or is it is a different now?

00:49:21:08 - 00:49:36:13

Luna

I see a lot of what you're saying across age groups. I mean, the the younger like Gen Z, they're, they're the big split. There's the ones that are like really, really up with it and they're like, yeah, I myself don't worry about it. And then there's the ones that are like, you don't know how to research and or maybe more constrained than ever.

00:49:36:13 - 00:49:54:05

Luna

But I think what I see in my, you know, people in their 30s and 40s, it's it's very similar. And a lot of it seems to depend on, you know, the early upbringing. And I think the more that we are able to see examples, I know it's been huge in my life just seeing examples of other people that are like me, because I grew up on a fucking farm in the middle of nowhere.

00:49:54:05 - 00:49:55:17

Luna

So, you know, I, I.

00:49:55:17 - 00:49:57:08

Kathy

Did it there in America and when.

00:49:57:08 - 00:50:19:06

Luna

In California and in Central California. So, you know, I'm, I'm from a small town between Fresno and Bakersfield. Like, it's the middle of nowhere. And I grew up on 40 acres of oranges and just, you know, read a lot of books. And, of course, the romantic examples that we see in literature and TV and movies, like, I think as that starts to shift, that's the most powerful thing, I think media and storytelling.

00:50:19:06 - 00:50:42:16

Luna

And that's why I love what we do, because it's, in my opinion, a more real storytelling. Like, yeah, now I'm like, what? What do you mean? You know, I was home actually just a few days ago when my mom was looking at the local newspaper and was like, wow, 10% of generation Z identifies as LGBTQIa. Plus, what? Oh, and I was like, only 10%, you know, like doesn't line up with my data.

00:50:42:18 - 00:51:00:03

Luna

So but I do I do still see the homophobia quite often and I've actually it's come up in conversation a lot. The idea of, you know, being hetero flexible, basically like people think like, no, no, I'm straight, but I'll suck a dick or like a little guy, suck my dick or, you know, whatever. And I'm just like, well, what's up with you?

00:51:00:04 - 00:51:09:01

Luna

We really have to get specific with the labels here. And, you know, for some people it's very important and some people it doesn't really matter. And I'm more team like, let's have pleasure. Like let's just like follow.

00:51:09:02 - 00:51:25:03

Kathy

Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. But yeah I do to say what I say about labels that I have to say because like when I was younger there weren't as many labels. There were two, you know, you're either straight or you're gay and no, there were like three or you're bisexual. And bisexual meant something very different back then when I was.

00:51:25:03 - 00:51:45:05

Kathy

But there was no other relationship except being single or being married. And I never fell into any of those groups. And because I did whatever I wanted, it was like I felt very dysfunctional, you know, because there were no terms. So I feel like I see even as an older person, like I'm always like, don't fucking knock labels.

00:51:45:05 - 00:52:04:01

Kathy

Like, I think eventually people don't need them in their life. And you just, you know, but at a certain point, especially when you're first starting out, it can be very helpful to be able to put a label for and to feel like you're sort of just like existing out there and there is no place for you, especially when you're younger.

00:52:04:01 - 00:52:21:21

Kathy

So I think the label thing is actually great for younger people. I wish there were more labels, like I said when I was younger, because I didn't feel like I fit in anywhere as a person that didn't want to be monogamous, that like to fuck a lot of different guys that tried to fuck women like, you know, where do I belong that didn't want to get married?

00:52:21:21 - 00:52:42:02

Kathy

I didn't want to get married when I was younger. Like, I just didn't get that whole fantasy, you know, I kind of, like labels. I think that they're helpful. Like I said, I don't need a label for myself now, but I think that they're good at a certain time, and I think they're helpful that there's so many of them now that people don't have to feel so weird about what they're doing because there's a label for it.

00:52:42:04 - 00:53:00:14

Luna

Yeah, well, I think I think labels can be helpful unless someone is very caught up on the label. And when I notice that happens, it's usually people who are there's so much more behind the label that they don't want to say, you know, so there's like the difference between just like trying to identify with something versus like using a label as a shortcut to get to know a person.

00:53:00:16 - 00:53:19:12

Luna

That's kind of what I think has been, the nuance of labels being helpful or not helpful that I've noticed. Okay. I would love to know some starting strictly anonymous. Have you noticed any like, sex related trends, specifically in the area of like podcasting? Like you kind of alluded to this earlier by saying, oh, there's been an explosion.

00:53:19:12 - 00:53:27:19

Luna

You know, as of five years ago, one of those exploders. But yeah, what have you noticed business wise, work wise, sex podcast wise?

00:53:27:21 - 00:53:45:16

Kathy

Well, there are so I mean, I think a lot of people realize that more people are talking about sex and more people want to, like recently. And I don't know if it went anywhere, but when Gwyneth Paltrow starts like a fucking sex podcast or some sex conversation thing, you're like, oh, I was like, really excited. I'm like, oh, it's becoming a little bit more mainstream now.

00:53:45:16 - 00:54:12:18

Kathy

I don't know whether her whole sex talk thing went anywhere, and I think maybe we're still a couple years away from being more mainstream and having it more out there, but I feel like a lot more people are talking about sex. It's more okay to talk about sex because podcasting in general is more popular, and now everyone's putting money into it.

00:54:12:18 - 00:54:30:15

Kathy

Everybody in their mother wants to start a show, you know, and there's a lot more. And I mean, as somebody and I'm sure you feel this way because you got in many years I've been seeing your show around for a while. You know, you you got in before the big boom. Like, I'm so grateful that I did because I wouldn't be able to be as successful now.

00:54:30:15 - 00:54:50:21

Kathy

So there's just a lot more people in the space. But what I love about podcasting is I feel like the more the merrier. Like, I think that there's not that sort of competition aspect, and everyone does it in different ways, and there's so many different angles for it, you know? So I think it's great. It only helps our cause.

00:54:50:21 - 00:55:11:19

Kathy

You know, I always feel like sex podcasters and all of us in the business are, you know, stronger together than we are separate, you know, definitely. Because the world needs to know about these things and people really still need help accepting that the shit that we're trying to get them to accept, you know? So the more the better.

00:55:11:19 - 00:55:30:14

Kathy

So I think it's great. And I just see more people talking about it and doing different things, a lot more erotica on there, which I think is great. You know, more people doing like what we're doing, people coming out, having conversations, you know, telling people's stories. So I think it's all great. And it's, you know, it's definitely happening.

00:55:30:16 - 00:55:41:16

Luna

Yeah. What would you say you're the most excited to explore or grow in your work going forward? I mean, so obviously we're at the precipice of Kafka. Maybe becoming public, maybe being like, yeah, TikTok.

00:55:41:18 - 00:55:58:13

Kathy

Yeah, that's what I want. Yeah. There's been times like when I started my Patreon page, I'm like, oh, maybe I'll be like, oh, strictly on anonymous there. And I'll put my face there. And that's how I get people over. But then people will like a lot of times when I say I'm going to like out myself, a lot of times people, people, people, you know, what can be like by making yourself.

00:55:58:13 - 00:56:16:02

Kathy

And I was like, people could paint the picture themselves like, there is something to it, you know? But I feel like personally, I feel like in my God, I feel like if I'm ever going to make a jump, I probably have to give that up. And I would. And that took me a long time to get to that place to make that decision.

00:56:16:08 - 00:56:33:10

Kathy

And I feel like now that I said, okay, because I believe a lot and energy and intention and what you put out, you know, it was really my choice. Like, do I want to get that big that I would have to put myself out there? You know, I didn't really know that because I think that there's a lot that comes with that.

00:56:33:10 - 00:56:53:11

Kathy

But I decided that. Yes. So and I feel like now that I decided yes, like and I'm open to it, I hope that that comes and that's like my big future goal. How long that takes, I don't know, I tend to be because I'm such a realist like I, I not someone that believes it happens overnight. You know, I could still be years away from that, but that is what I'm working towards.

00:56:53:11 - 00:57:10:08

Kathy

I just do though, you know, and I think you know this about anything. I mean, it should be about the journey, not the destination. For me. I love 100% what I do anyway for my show. So even if it stayed like this, I couldn't be happier. Like, because I love editing it, I love posting it. I love commenting on it.

00:57:10:08 - 00:57:28:14

Kathy

I love talking to the people. I love making this. You know, I love advertisers. I love making the ads. I like it all. So it's all fine now. But you know, I do hope that my future goes to where it needs to be, which is where I do come out. And I put my face to it, and I feel like maybe the timing will be perfect.

00:57:28:14 - 00:57:46:16

Kathy

My son will be a little bit older and we all come together at the right time, you know? I don't know, but that's really my future goal is to come out, my coming out because people will be like, what's your secret? I'm like, oh yeah, somebody once said, like, maybe your secret is your show. I'm like, yeah, that is just like my yes, I'm living a secret.

00:57:46:19 - 00:57:57:10

Kathy

I'm living a secret life too. I have this whole thing. Let's see. It's at this point it's like just becoming a bigger secret as we go on. So I have to make it not a secret one day.

00:57:57:11 - 00:58:07:14

Luna

Oh, I love that so much. Okay, so if you could wave a magic wand and just teach everyone in the whole wide world something about sex, what would you teach them?

00:58:07:16 - 00:58:25:19

Kathy

Oh, God, I feel like me that I've said it a thousand times. The same thing where they just come to me. Sex, money, food like these are just like the pleasures in life. Like there's nothing wrong with any of those things. They're just positive. And I hate that people turn them negative. Like people do the same thing with money, you know what I mean?

00:58:25:19 - 00:58:44:02

Kathy

It's like these things could be just positive things. Sex is positive. What people do in their own private time is nobody's business. A lot of times, like, I don't know if you hear this a lot, but I have people comment like, oh, what? She tell her kids that she fucks like people when her husband watches? I'm like, no.

00:58:44:02 - 00:59:01:07

Kathy

But my mother wouldn't tell me how she fucked her vanilla husband last night either. Like vanilla people don't tell their kids about their sex, so why should these people? You know, it's all like stupid judgment. So my my magic wand would wave and just make people just, like, know that this is the shit that goes down. This is what people do.

00:59:01:07 - 00:59:26:16

Kathy

And who the fuck cares? So that some people that are hiding these things to be more open because listen, the trickle down effect of this judgment is all this cheating and secret lies that are going down and the devastation that comes out when things are found out. I mean, it ruins marriages. It ruins. You know, I my favorite question is always like, where do you hide your shit?

00:59:26:16 - 00:59:40:16

Kathy

You know, because my thought is always like, oh my God, imagine you get in a car accident and then, you know, they find your stuff and you die. Now your wife has to be like, what the fuck was he into? You know, there's a whole stash of women's clothes. You know, they never got to explain. And now you're forever going to be known as that.

00:59:40:16 - 01:00:08:17

Kathy

And, like, what is that thing, you know? Yeah. So I just feel like the more accepting people could be the last of all this nonsense, there would be as well. And like I said, it breaks up marriages. And it's sad because it weighs on people. So I think I would, just like for people to get into reality, you know, a lot of times, and I find it very rude, a lot of times, just even my regular friends will be like, oh, yeah, because, you know, you're talking to crazy, you know, the crazy people you talk to.

01:00:08:17 - 01:00:28:04

Kathy

And I'm like, but I don't see the people on my show as crazy. And sometimes, like the YouTubers will comment, oh yeah. Because, you know, like they use that word crazy. I'm like, no, like that's the opposite. Like what I'm trying to show you is these people are not crazy, quote unquote, like these. This might be your uncle, this might be your brother, this might be your husband, it might be your girlfriend.

01:00:28:04 - 01:00:48:10

Kathy

It might be your mom and dad. Like, I'm trying to show you the exact opposite in the fact that people still see things that way is what I want to try and get away. Like they're not perverts. They don't live on an island. They don't look a certain way. These are regular people that have regular jobs and regular everything like you, and they're just doing these things in the bedroom, you know.

01:00:48:15 - 01:00:53:06

Luna

And talking about it like if they're if they're crazy, we're all crazy. Like, it's just the.

01:00:53:08 - 01:01:07:02

Kathy

The one crazy, you know, weird, crazy weirdos like, well, you know, oh, it's like, no, these are just these are regular people that do crazy things. Maybe you want to say that, I don't know, but I, you know, so I would make everybody be more accepting.

01:01:07:03 - 01:01:26:16

Luna

I love it. Okay. Now, I would like you to help me with a fantasy brainstorm my lifelong project. Imagine a giant creative space. It's part sex ed museum. It's part erotic art gallery. It has a secret members only sexy place base, maybe a dungeon or something. Maybe it's a co-working space that sex workers and performers can also use.

01:01:26:16 - 01:01:45:02

Luna

Like a sexy sex worker. We work, there's play parties on the weekends, there's educational events, and you have been tasked with designing one of the rooms so it can represent you. It can be the strictly anonymous. It could be a coffee game room, like whatever you want. You have an unlimited budget and it for you represents pleasure or an experience you want people to have.

01:01:45:04 - 01:01:47:08

Luna

What would you make?

01:01:47:10 - 01:02:04:20

Kathy

Oh wow. Well, I would want to be in charge of the whole fucking thing. And I would probably like, run it like I run my Patreon, which is like, you know, because I have these two separate places in my Patreon. I feel like when you say that, I immediately thought, oh, like, my dungeon room would be like my discord.

01:02:04:22 - 01:02:24:08

Kathy

My like, I would invite everybody in and I love to foster relationships and get people talking and create a place where people could meet each other and be open. And then when they want to go further and do that private stuff and get more sexual, I would send them downstairs to the dungeon and I would have no part in that.

01:02:24:13 - 01:02:41:18

Kathy

I would want that to happen, but I would love to foster the relationships and get everybody in the mood and then let them go do their thing. So I would be like that hostess and that's like kind of what I do on my Patreon. Like I invite everybody and then they could go on to my discord and there's like all kinds of X-rated things, and people get to share and do whatever.

01:02:41:18 - 01:03:01:14

Kathy

And I'm like, I don't get involved there. But I love to create that space to bring people together for them to go there and then enjoy themselves. So I would do the same thing in that little space. I'd have like dungeon for everyone to go have fun, but I'd love to invite them in and get them comfortable and get them in the mood and get them introduced to everybody.

01:03:01:14 - 01:03:13:02

Kathy

And then they could go have their fun. And I would like to stay separate like I do. Has to as well, because for me, I suck. It's like I'm like more private. So that's not the way I would roll. Is that lowering I don't know.

01:03:13:04 - 01:03:19:12

Luna

No I've no there's literally never a wrong answer. There's only right answers and fantasy brainstorms so that's right.

01:03:19:12 - 01:03:20:15

Kathy

Right, right. Well, yeah.

01:03:20:16 - 01:03:27:16

Luna

I love that. Anything else you want to say about strictly anonymous or sex or anything else? Any other final thoughts?

01:03:27:18 - 01:03:46:01

Kathy

I don't really know. I mean, like, listen, people could follow my show. I'm like, strictly anonymous. Like I said on, you know, every podcast app, I do three shows a week and I do that so that I hope that, like, you know, my audience could find at least one episode that they're interested, if not more than one episode a week.

01:03:46:01 - 01:03:53:00

Kathy

You know, I have my YouTube channel, I have my Patreon. My Patreon is like a fun place. So like, you know, people could go find all my stuff.

01:03:53:04 - 01:04:01:03

Luna

Oh yeah, we have links to all of that in the description below. Kathy Kay of Strictly Anonymous. Thank you so much for being a guest on Sex Stories.

01:04:01:05 - 01:04:03:20

Kathy

Thank you. It was so great to finally talk to you.