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201 | The Secret Life of Kinky Parents: Alec Bond on Woo


37 pansexual heteromantic white cis male, in a monogamous relationship with his partner of 17 years.



00:00:00:03 - 00:00:23:09

Luna

Our guest today is a 37 year old, pansexual, hetero romantic, white cis man who is in a monogamous relationship with his partner of 17 years, kinky and adaptable in almost all circumstances. He enjoys Bdsm, exhibitionism and voyeurism, fetishism, male chastity and denial, pregnancy and lactation play, and so much more. A computing engineer originally from Florida, he now lives in Atlanta, Georgia.


00:00:23:10 - 00:00:25:12

Luna

Welcome, Alec Bond.


00:00:25:14 - 00:00:26:14

Alec

Hi. Thank you. Thank you.


00:00:26:18 - 00:00:34:20

Luna

Alec. If you had to rate yourself on a sexual shame a meter from one being shameless to ten being super full of shame. Where do you fall right now?


00:00:34:22 - 00:00:53:05

Alec

I'm going with a two. There's still maybe 1 or 2 topics that are those fleeting thoughts that crossed my mind once a year or something that I'm still not ready to even shame talked through with myself, much less the world, because things will disappear over time. Like, I'll think that I have an interest in it. Just disappears or floats away.


00:00:53:05 - 00:01:04:05

Alec

I don't think about it again, kind of a fleeting thought. And then others sit there and grow into a nice little tree that finally sees the sunshine, and I may bring up or experiment with.


00:01:04:06 - 00:01:11:19

Luna

The ones that grow into trees. Do the trees unashamed, and the fleeting ones? Do they stay shaming, or is there a correlation, or does it just depend?


00:01:11:21 - 00:01:29:08

Alec

No. Normally if it's a completely fleeting and it just disappears, I don't think about it again. So I don't know if I could associate shame with them. It's just like there's a shame in the moment of having the thought. And then maybe it will never recur. Anything else that sees sunlight normally shame pretty much disappears rapidly.


00:01:29:10 - 00:01:47:01

Luna

I wonder. This is a question for our listeners. If anyone else out there has the internal response of like, oh my God, I want to know what your shiniest things are. I keep trying to think about, like what mine are and the parts that I still keep inside. Like, are there any that you remember now that you're like, oh yeah, that's still shaming and have you told those to anyone close to you?


00:01:47:03 - 00:01:56:21

Alec

Oh absolutely not. I would rarely admit to myself that it's something that's past my mind. It's kind of just strange. Dark passenger thoughts, I guess.


00:01:56:23 - 00:02:04:12

Luna

Okay, okay. So are there any other places in your life where shame comes up, like with people or zones?


00:02:04:14 - 00:02:23:16

Alec

Yeah. I don't find shame with my thoughts, preferences, whatever, but I find places of where it's appropriate or not. And I say that because I've heard other guests go, oh well, I don't want to talk about it with my parents, or I don't want to talk about it at work, and I don't have a shame about it to my coworkers.


00:02:23:16 - 00:02:39:13

Alec

I just also wouldn't talk to them about a lot of my other habits, just because it's not the appropriate venue for it. So I'd say my shame is pretty flat across the board. Regardless of who it is, it's just a matter of whether or not they care to hear about it or it's appropriate at the time.


00:02:39:15 - 00:02:46:02

Luna

In your personal sphere, where are the appropriate talk about sexy places?


00:02:46:04 - 00:03:03:04

Alec

Any time somebody so much as bats an eye about something, that could possibly be an interesting topic. So I said, oh, don't talk about it at work things. But I've had things pop up where somebody said, oh, I used to live in that city too, and I used to go to burlesque shows there, and myself and my wife pole the pole dancing.


00:03:03:04 - 00:03:19:19

Alec

And so I've told them, even in an interview for a tech position, I work. And I went, oh, did you ever attend any of these venues? And they said, yeah, yeah. I said, well, if you went there in between this year and this year and there was a man there, it was probably me. And that's still not like getting into my deep, dark desires.


00:03:19:19 - 00:03:38:08

Alec

But a lot of people would go, wait, you talked about that with a potential coworker? And I go, well, yes, they don't like that and choose not to hire me because of what I want to be on the team. Or if they do really like that, who cares? To me, it just still fits into the team fit, personality fit, whatever type of thing.


00:03:38:08 - 00:03:38:21

Alec

Yeah, I.


00:03:38:23 - 00:03:46:12

Luna

Love that nuance. Okay, can you give us a little overview now of what your sex life is like and what are your favorite parts right now?


00:03:46:14 - 00:04:21:01

Alec

Right now it is secretive. It is secretive because myself and my wife, we have three children and they are three, and I'm almost, almost four, one that just turned eight and an almost 11 year old. And we live in a rather rural area outside of Atlanta. We've been homeschooled just because of our schools. Pre-COVID. I've worked from home for many years, pre-COVID and everything, so they are always here and that makes anything with sound at any time of day, anywhere in the house become a secret mission almost.


00:04:21:03 - 00:04:43:00

Alec

It's hey, what would be a really good idea? What can we have you do that safe where we're not completely in our heads going? Are they laughing in the distance, or did somebody fall out of a tree and hurt themselves? You know, whatever. Yeah. And so right now there's a lot of, oh, hey, everybody's eating breakfast. Mom and dad have to sneak away because we need to put away laundry while our hands are free.


00:04:43:01 - 00:04:52:23

Alec

And those types of little covert things aren't necessarily ideal, but it's become entertaining to its own accord. Yeah.


00:04:53:01 - 00:04:58:14

Luna

What's the dynamic like between you and your partner? It sounds like there's something juicy.


00:04:58:14 - 00:05:32:00

Alec

There were fun. I am definitely the immediate gratification or complete lack of gratification. One of us. Whereas she's more of a slow build up and sizzle through. So sometimes a sneak away is, hey, I'm in this mood, what mood are you in? And it doesn't always match. There's a lot of that. Where again, the book that I've read after listening to this podcast come as you are going through that, she and I had many a talk about, oh yeah, I'm just like, I've got two accelerator pedals.


00:05:32:00 - 00:05:53:21

Alec

It's not a gas brake, I've got two of them. And realizing that she has a few more breaks in that, and having that realization about each other is where we got into a lot of things. In the introduction, you mentioned, like chastity play in denial stuff because it's a way for us to I feel like compromise always sounds like somebody is not getting what they want.


00:05:53:21 - 00:05:56:05

Luna

Totally. It sounds so disappointing.


00:05:56:07 - 00:06:25:07

Alec

It's not compromise. It's agreement. I think, for example, if I'm very in a mood and she's perhaps not in the same mood, that becomes a perfect opportunity or time to introduce denial aspects, because maybe it's she does not want to. Hey, let's go spend 30 minutes and put on lingerie and get showered up and have a whole whatever session of anything at that time.


00:06:25:09 - 00:06:47:01

Alec

But if my mindset is focused on I am right now horny, I am right now really desiring things. Whatever else, it's a fun shift that she'll go, oh well, that's really great, so I'll consider that later. If x, Y, Z, whatever type. Simple task. Things like you do good at work today, you help me with dinner tonight, whatever else.


00:06:47:03 - 00:07:13:14

Alec

And my thoughts that were already on sex can stay there. Yeah, but can kind of focus them through other things. And because I like denial and I like anticipation, maybe later the day has gone well. We're both in great moods because we did everything together. We cooked a great dinner. We had a great evening. Whatever else, maybe it'll shift and it will turn into what I wanted earlier in the day.


00:07:13:19 - 00:07:36:16

Alec

But maybe who knows what her break is still there, or anything else where she's not at the same level of desire. It's really easy to go, hey, no, you're going to have to earn it and wait another day and boom, just like that. Totally. That's where I feel like it's not necessarily a compromise. I'm still getting something I really enjoy out of it, and her investment into that is minimal.


00:07:36:16 - 00:07:59:10

Alec

But she also, through time, has found that it's still kind of fun to be snarky with it. She likes to see me happy, just like I'd like to see her happy. And so even in a bad day for one of her, so the other, if we can see that we can readily have an effect on the other one to make them happy, feel desired, feel complete, anything else then?


00:07:59:10 - 00:08:01:02

Alec

Yeah, we're going to take that opportunity.


00:08:01:04 - 00:08:22:03

Luna

I love that, and I would like to offer the phrase creative strategizing or just collaboration. Like it sounds very collaborative and it's like you are mutually, like you said, agreement, but it's an agreement in a specific direction. And it's active. It's active collaboration toward your pleasure in a way that actually fits into your life. And it sounds like can stretch and change, which is fucking awesome.


00:08:22:05 - 00:08:42:23

Alec

Yeah. And that came out of being young and having times where one or the other of us would have a different mood, a different day. Our works were different. Whatever else, a different perspective on a day than the other. And we would have times where it's like, oh, my mood is this and yours is something different. And we would catch ourselves being frustrated with each other because of it.


00:08:43:01 - 00:08:56:22

Alec

And I see so many people where they get stuck with that. Oh yeah. Oh well, I want this and they don't like that or they don't want this. And it's like, but they don't want that. Right? Then how do you get to, you know, using it at its correct time.


00:08:57:02 - 00:09:03:15

Luna

Totally I love that. Can you tell us now what is sexy to you?


00:09:03:17 - 00:09:25:05

Alec

I'll say opportunity with an advised willingness because being willing always isn't necessarily the smartest thing to do. Taking advantage of opportunities is not always the correct thing to do. So I an advised willingness that goes into everything. So willingness to be uncomfortable, willingness to explore, willingness to be embarrassed on either party.


00:09:25:07 - 00:09:30:01

Luna

I love that specificity. When do you feel sexiest yourself?


00:09:30:03 - 00:10:01:07

Alec

To me, it is when I am desired. Most often I feel desired through means of objectification. I really like the reverse chauvinism almost of that. So we both were at pole dancing studios. We both did a lot of pole fitness stuff and whatever else, and I really liked the kind of reverse dichotomy of when we would go and perform at a show or something, and there would be 9 or 10 women doing things that were way beyond what I'm capable of.


00:10:01:09 - 00:10:25:22

Alec

But I really appreciated getting to go in and be the token male that an audience of friends of this pole dance communities were mostly women who were also there for fitness, or were also dancers or whatever else, and getting to play the part of the lone male out. There's a very comfortable to the audience and to myself. Objectification of a man in that situation.


00:10:26:00 - 00:10:39:04

Alec

Now, is that the same desire that perhaps my wife has for me? No, it's it's not the same level, or at least I won't know if it is. But it's feeling desired. It's feeling confident. It's feeling like I'm wanted.


00:10:39:10 - 00:10:42:11

Luna

Yeah. What counts as sex for you?


00:10:42:12 - 00:10:51:03

Alec

I want to quote the Supreme Court. I don't know what it is, but I'll know it when I see it. The official ruling on pornography, whenever that was.


00:10:51:05 - 00:10:56:17

Luna

Did you ever get an explicit health and safety talk or lesson in consent growing up?


00:10:56:18 - 00:11:21:07

Alec

Consent? Absolutely. I grew up kind of as the youngest of four children. And then when I was a teenager, my parents adopted more children. We had a lot of consent talks just because I think by the time I was the youngest, my older siblings were up there in grade levels in school and everything else. And so I think my parents saw on the horizon, oh, hey, we've got these daughters who are attractive and we have boys showing up and whatever.


00:11:21:07 - 00:11:41:07

Alec

So let's teach them how to be safe, how to be, you know, expressing their consent towards anything. And I just kind of overheard it. So there wasn't the we're going to sit you down across the table and talk to you and give you a hard time about this. It was just one of those things you just accept, like learning a language by immersion.


00:11:41:09 - 00:12:00:04

Alec

I learned consent just by immersion because the schools talked about it. People talk about it, families talked about it. And so it wasn't ever an explicit discussion, but it was known and communicated thoughtfully as opposed to just, oh, they've got cable. They probably know about it. Right, right, right.


00:12:00:06 - 00:12:03:13

Luna

And then so you didn't get a sit down talk. What about like sex ed at school?


00:12:03:15 - 00:12:34:11

Alec

Florida is is not very well known for their schooling. It was the most stereotypical American, a third grade, fifth grade and then seventh grade. I think third grade is a hey, you might notice that your body is changing. And here's a video that's of the Mr. Rogers or Bob Ross era and kind of that presentation level of like, here's a friendly person who's going to give you very calm but very forthright information about how your body will change throughout puberty.


00:12:34:13 - 00:12:53:12

Alec

Fifth grade, I think, was a repeat of the same thing, but they also gave you a free deodorant to take home. And please don't show up to class. Smelly seventh and eighth grade was a lot more scientific, and it was less with the intention of having anyone be safe or hygienic or anything else. It was really like, here's your body, let's learn about all the organs and your sexual organs just happened to be part of that.


00:12:53:12 - 00:12:55:01

Alec

So we've got chapters on that too.


00:12:55:06 - 00:13:03:13

Luna

Interesting. Okay, so now as an adult, do you have an example of a very clear yes, but lead to something sexy?


00:13:03:15 - 00:13:26:04

Alec

Oh, I feel like I have a lot of yeses that are in them that lead to something sexy, but it's like you're already, two turns down the road and it just lets it go further. Myself and my wife, we will have perhaps partaken something that's casual to us. A normal makeout and a normal hey, we're making out and this is going to turn into PIV sex in a position that we're already familiar with.


00:13:26:10 - 00:13:54:02

Alec

And if we're really shifting gears and going to something completely wild that one of us thought of or something that we haven't previously discussed, we will normally not introduce it at that time, but there are like soft bends in it, like changing to a position that is perhaps one that you do not know or don't do often, or is just an opportunistic one because, hey, you're on a couch this time and there's an arm of the couch there and that's not on the bed.


00:13:54:02 - 00:14:09:14

Alec

Favorite those types of things. When we were younger, we would try to just like, I'm going to take your hips and put you in this position, and then you realize that, no, that's accidentally get kicked in the face or something as you're trying to move somebody's body around and they go, how do you actually want me? So all the time those soft shifts will have it.


00:14:09:16 - 00:14:33:11

Alec

Hey, there's an arm on this couch. Can I do this and put you over that? And then you don't accidentally get kicked. Nobody falls and make something into a humorous or injurious time. So those subtle absolute yes is happen all the time. They're very fluid with having a relationship and and going on other ones, usually directly come from conversations.


00:14:33:11 - 00:15:00:20

Alec

Again I spoke about chastity and and also that that came from me kind of twirling in my mind and going, well, I don't want to make her feel pressured to pleasure me if I'm in that type of mood, but I also don't want to find myself being upset and anything else. And I sat there during a very boring work meeting once, and just went through it on the little notes app and made bullet points of like, hey, here's how this might work, and we're watching some dumb food show or something at night.


00:15:00:20 - 00:15:15:10

Alec

Night. Hey, so I've been thinking about something. What do you think about this? And she goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. We can do that. And I'm like, but I prepared a whole presentation on why it makes sense. Can I go through that? And she's like, yeah, you can go through it. And as I went through it she goes, yeah, that makes sense.


00:15:15:10 - 00:15:33:03

Alec

Okay. I hadn't thought about it. That angle that makes sense. And so that was a very good very distinctive I would like to do this. Can I do this. Can I do this. And will you be involved with it. And is there an angle of this that could be also interesting arousing whatever for you. Yeah. So that's a very distinct.


00:15:33:05 - 00:15:36:02

Alec

Yes. That definitely turned into good things.


00:15:36:04 - 00:15:48:16

Luna

Wow. Okay. So you are monogamous. So maybe you don't have recent experiences with safer sex conversations. But take us through your experiences and what you remember of them for yourself.


00:15:48:18 - 00:16:16:18

Alec

So early on, just coming from small town and whatever else and not being well-educated. I had paranoia about everything. Anxiety, perhaps not paranoia, not just sexual things. Early on, when I was 15, 16 and first getting involved in dating or anything else, there wasn't questioning anything like there wasn't a hard talk with anyone of, hey, should we use protection?


00:16:16:18 - 00:16:47:21

Alec

Hey, are you comfortable with protection? It wasn't a negotiable. And in my minimal dating experience before my wife, it wasn't negotiable for myself or whomever I was dating. The people that I was dating were very much like me. And so there never was a selling the idea of contraceptives or condom use to someone else. The first partner or two that I had, there was not much correct discussion of things other than hey, we've both never had any partners before.


00:16:47:21 - 00:17:09:18

Alec

That means we're safe, right? I don't remember how did that class date. We can try to look this up on the internet. Gosh, we're really both horny. Let's go for it anyways, so not always the best advised decisions by that. Was it early on? And then when my wife and I did our couple of years that we worked in the adult industry, we worked almost solely with each other.


00:17:09:18 - 00:17:36:16

Alec

We worked solely with each other for anything that we considered sex. But there was still things rope bondage, flogging scenes, stuff like that that still involved other parties. So through the consent talk with other people, there would also be a talk regarding not just physical safety, but all aspects of safety and to the point of monogamy. Myself and my wife are monogamous.


00:17:36:16 - 00:17:58:22

Alec

We don't have any other love interest, any other partners. But one of our best friends that we've known for years is in poly relationships, and she enjoys being a bottom four particular types of impact play. I don't consider impact play sex. My wife does not consider impact play sex. Our best friend here does not consider impact play sex.


00:17:58:22 - 00:18:27:07

Alec

So I still consider myself monogamous. She is not in a sexual relationship with me. She has a loving relationship with us. But it is not the same degree of loving relationship that myself and my wife have. It's not a romantic love. We absolutely love her. She loves us. It's just not a romantic love. So there is well, we've had discussions regarding safety because with impact play, occasionally there may be small amounts of blood left on a toy or piece of rope or whatever else.


00:18:27:07 - 00:18:39:01

Alec

And so with her having other partners from her poly relationships, we'll have continuous discussions about that before whenever we play, just to make sure that there isn't a need of heightened concern on our part.


00:18:39:03 - 00:18:48:17

Luna

Absolutely. Even monogamous relationships have to have health and safety conversations ongoing, especially if you're kinky, you know, like switching roles, like trying new things.


00:18:48:21 - 00:19:13:15

Alec

Yeah. A note on partner is my spouse's name can be gendered to either gender. And so I have found it entertaining as I've worked through particular different regions and states where people are more or less open to the idea of someone being in a homosexual relationship, that I would say, oh yes, me and my partner with their very openly gendered name and our kids are going to go do this.


00:19:13:17 - 00:19:36:06

Alec

And it kind of helped me gauge where I need to be with discussions with people in the workplace as to whether they know what did he say, partner? And is that a girl or a boy name as opposed to people who go, oh well, I'd love to meet him. And I go, oh, I'm sorry, it's not that. It's kind of a mean playfulness, but I, I like to play with that and see where it brings me.


00:19:36:06 - 00:19:47:00

Luna

I don't know, I'm really learning about humans and maleness, and that to me just sounds like a playful litmus test, unless you're using it to like, trick and trap and shame people and then that's mean. But that's a little bit different.


00:19:47:00 - 00:19:51:00

Alec

It's it's not ill intentioned, ever. It's more of a playful thing.


00:19:51:02 - 00:20:03:20

Luna

Okay. Now let's go through your sexual timeline. I'd love to hear what formative milestones shaped your sexual being. Take us back to your early years and start with what do you remember first.


00:20:03:22 - 00:20:28:09

Alec

I go way back to when I was probably three ish and I still lived in the northeast, and probably the earliest remembrance I have of gender existing, even like I just as a child, you are told, hey, here's a mother, here's a father, and you accept it. So it wasn't until I think myself and my siblings we got lost in the woods once.


00:20:28:09 - 00:20:48:13

Alec

You know, it's the early 80s, you could just go and play in the woods. That was great. And going, I really have to pee and I could. And so I did. No problem. And then we're still lost in the woods hours later. This whole time we're maybe half a mile from our house, if that even we were not lost, we just couldn't see that front of the house anymore.


00:20:48:15 - 00:21:02:21

Alec

And one of my sisters mentioned the same thing, and I'm like, okay, well, we'll wait. No, I'm going to wait until we get home. Okay. And that was just like one of those little tiny sparks of, like, I wonder why I wouldn't want to wait if I have to go to the restroom. Yeah.


00:21:02:23 - 00:21:04:00

Luna

Yeah.


00:21:04:02 - 00:21:30:10

Alec

I then kind of just jump and stagger through for some years until knowing, I don't know, maybe kindergarten ish time, knowing that there was stereotypes. And this was, again, all the 80s media, the 90s media, between music videos, even outside of music videos, just the ads that showed up in the newspaper at the time recognizing like, oh, men desire women.


00:21:30:10 - 00:21:55:06

Alec

And there's some reason why I don't know yet, but there is. And oh, there's jokes in the whatever Family Circus comic in the newspaper about the little boys disappearing with the, Jesse Penney's, bra ads and I don't know why they do that, but these types of things have a running trend. And so you start to go, why is there a trend around this?


00:21:55:06 - 00:22:17:18

Alec

I don't get it. I then go to a couple years older than that. So I'm probably first grade ish or so and having, morning erections. And I remember just like waking up and I'd wake up super early. No idea why. Way earlier than I need to wake up for school and be sleeping on my chest and just be like, oh, look.


00:22:18:00 - 00:22:35:11

Alec

Okay, well, that feels nice. That's present. Okay. And, you know, would sit there and just go, oh, that's an interesting thing. There wasn't any playing with it or anything else. It was just like a oh you exist. Hello, welcome to the world. And okay, you're going to go away by the time I go to eat breakfast at the table.


00:22:35:11 - 00:22:56:15

Alec

And so I don't have to say anything about it. No one had told me to be not talking about it. I just didn't think too the same way. I didn't think to talk about picking my nose or any of my other bodily functions. Yeah. You know, you tell an adult if you need to go to the restroom so that you have the proper facility, but other than that, unless something hurt on my body, a reason to bring it up, that's just the way it is.


00:22:56:17 - 00:23:24:17

Alec

Then you jump through there. Up until I got involved with computers, I was from a family of computer engineers in the same field I'm in now, and got an upgrade to the home computer, and my older siblings already had computers, so this was probably like 9495. Very dawn of the modern consumer internet era.


00:23:24:19 - 00:23:25:20

Luna

How old were you?


00:23:25:22 - 00:23:49:04

Alec

I was, 10 or 11. Okay. And because my father worked from home at that time, we had internet connectivity in my home. So I had a computer and I could do anything with it if I could learn how to use it, because I didn't have an operating system on it or anything else. So that early on my, my older brother, who's seven years older than me, he went, oh, here's an operating system, install it from disk.


00:23:49:04 - 00:24:09:23

Alec

If you can figure it out, you can use the computer. And that got me into just the internet. I didn't have graphical browsers, Internet Explorer or Netscape anything, and I just had alt text stuff. So I was going around the internet to old bulletin board systems and chat programs to see all the chat rooms or channels that were around.


00:24:09:23 - 00:24:42:12

Alec

You would just say list them. Well, if you are on the right set of servers and you say list, you would see, oh, golf talk. Okay, baseball sports. And then there would be things that you couldn't quite read because it P0RNT1T13S and you go, what is exclamation point porn titties I don't know. Well, if I don't know something, I need to probably learn about it.


00:24:42:12 - 00:25:07:12

Alec

Just like school. If I don't know what a word means when I'm reading a book, I go to the glossary, the glossaries right here. Let's dive in. So my first like real knowledge of sexual things beyond just like an anatomical was, pretty deep dive into the world of internet and fantasy and whatever else. I was probably, again, anxious, paranoid.


00:25:07:12 - 00:25:27:03

Alec

I didn't want anybody to know I was there. I didn't want to break the computer or anything else. So I was just always a lurker. And that was for the best. I didn't have to lie about my age. I didn't have to worry about people asking me weird questions because I didn't need to talk to anybody. There was so much just to read and consume that way.


00:25:27:03 - 00:25:50:07

Alec

And so, for better or worse, that's where a lot of my early but still useful, sexual knowledge came from. I think it gets a bad reputation when you think of it as pornography, or at least nowadays it does. And yeah, there was absolutely stuff that was purely just explicit for the sake thereof. And great. But there was also a lot of stuff shared in those same things.


00:25:50:07 - 00:26:19:14

Alec

That was what nowadays you'd find on the shelf in Barnes and Nobles. Yeah, because it was deemed explicit just because it had advice on how to provide pleasure to someone as opposed to just anatomical differences. So not all of it was intended to be erotic, but kind of circles back to you, I said with my wife and I, but if you can do something that is providing a pleasure to someone else, why wouldn't you?


00:26:19:16 - 00:26:48:09

Alec

So it wasn't necessarily intended to be erotic or intended to titillate, but it absolutely was. That because it's like, oh, well, here's how this is how it works, and here's how the nervous system works. And if you tie these two together, you find how really good things work pretty quickly thereafter, it was, hey, this reading this stuff, looking at this stuff is nice feeling, nice feeling, mentally satisfying, perhaps, as opposed to nice feeling physically.


00:26:48:11 - 00:27:15:06

Alec

I remember I was in junior high, and I remember not understanding when people would say random insults to people in elementary school. People would go, oh, it's a dork. And then sometime you go and you look in a dictionary, you go, dork means whale penis. It's that much funnier to call somebody that I like that now. And I was in middle school and high school in the very late 90s, and it was this, like really big insult to call somebody a jerk off.


00:27:15:07 - 00:27:36:07

Alec

And it was like, oh my gosh, yeah, I don't like that kid. He's a jerk off. I remember hearing him in like the movie The Jerk. Is that what this is about or. I don't get it. And because of reading these things, some of them were very tutorial like. So there were things on how to give an excellent blowjob, how to just masturbate, whether you're male or female or whatever else.


00:27:36:12 - 00:27:55:20

Alec

And so you read enough of that. And I find it's like any other fascinating hobby. If you get interested in pens and you start looking around, you've read all about how they look across paper, and quickly you find yourself with a pen out, rolling it across paper. And if you read enough about how to make your penis in your body feel really nice, well, goddammit, if I have a penis, it's going to come out.


00:27:55:20 - 00:28:18:05

Alec

I'm going to see if these people are right or not. So yeah, it was probably early teens, like maybe not even teens 1213 ish in there. And way back to first discovering, waking, hard ons or whatever else. Morning erections, you know, you eventually find, oh, well, it feels nice to just hump my hip against the mattress or whatever else.


00:28:18:09 - 00:28:41:19

Alec

So then reading these tutorials just kind of combined it. And honestly, now I can't remember if it was weeks, months, days or years of doing that without actually fully orgasming and ejaculating or not. I do remember reading about, oh, you know, people do this and then they have a rhythm, but I didn't know what it was, so I wouldn't have known it if I saw it.


00:28:41:21 - 00:28:59:03

Alec

And so I think that I was masturbating to completion before my body was actually capable of ejaculating, but I don't know if it was that I really wasn't, you know, making it all the way past point Z, or if my body was just not ready to make it past point Z. So, hey, here's you made it all the way.


00:28:59:03 - 00:29:14:11

Alec

Congratulations. But, you know, there's no reward shooting out of the end. Yeah. So that was in those times. And I remember going back to school and just chewing on it on it mentally. And the next time I heard somebody call somebody a jackoff or something, I was like, but do you know what that is? Because, like, I don't know if that's bad.


00:29:14:11 - 00:29:34:17

Alec

Like, have you checked off? This feels really good. And other kids, I think it was in the cafeteria or something being like, yeah, actually, Jack, you know, it's really cool, dude. I don't know why people say that either. And it's like, oh, okay. So like just like that with singularly defeated, jack off or jerk off as being an insult in my middle school by having like 2 or 3, I get the feeling.


00:29:34:23 - 00:29:38:08

Alec

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I.


00:29:38:10 - 00:29:51:08

Luna

I love it. I am so grateful for all of the people out there that are like. But we literally isn't it like this for you? And then everyone else around is like, yeah, yeah, I have, I have that experience so often.


00:29:51:10 - 00:30:03:13

Alec

So I just couldn't imagine someone going to an adult and being like, oh, well, here's a big insult for you. You're somebody who has sex and finishes at the end of it, and it's like, well, yep, you got me.


00:30:03:15 - 00:30:09:08

Luna

So when did we get to touching other people or letting other people touch you?


00:30:09:10 - 00:30:29:23

Alec

I had, again, anxiety, the poor girl. That was essentially my my first girlfriend. I very unfortunately probably drove her up a wall because she was really stepping out of her comfort zone to make it very clear the things that she desired from me. And at this point in time, I'm talking like, have your arm around me at the movie theaters, you know, peck me on the cheek in public.


00:30:30:01 - 00:30:51:15

Alec

She was stepping so far outside of her comfort zone to push for things, and I think she thought that I was too stupid to know what she was looking for, as opposed to no, I'm just too scared shitless to take action upon it. That's everywhere in life. See, I don't want to start drawing something because then if I fail, well, then I fail.


00:30:51:15 - 00:31:15:10

Alec

But if I don't start it, I didn't fail. And that fear of rejection, even from somebody who is doing everything up to the point of explicitly saying no, really do this to me, wasn't there. And so we were riding on a bus, from an event in our town one day and a boy in front of us, you know, turned around in the seat of the bus or was like sitting with his back to the window, as his people did at that time on the yellow school busses.


00:31:15:12 - 00:31:32:15

Alec

And she was sitting next to me, and we were just being flirtatious. We were 14. And this kid, he might have just been small. I remember thinking like, oh, he's like 8 or 9, you know, this was a local concert thing they bused kids into. And he's like, you guys flirt too much. Why don't you just start making out?


00:31:32:17 - 00:31:53:06

Alec

And I was like, how did this kid read us so well. And, so this girl, she just grabs me, she goes, are you ever going to kiss me? And I went, I kind of just hesitate for a moment and she just grabbed me and starts kissing me, and I don't remember what I physically did because mentally I just lost it.


00:31:53:06 - 00:32:10:23

Alec

And I don't mean lost it in like, oh, this is amazing. This is erotic. This is everything I've ever dreamed about. I'm sitting there like, what the hell is happening? And when am I going to wake up? I don't know what's happening. Did I ruin this? Is this good? Is this bad I laugh about I still remember she pulls back and she goes, oh well, that wasn't what I expected at all.


00:32:11:00 - 00:32:37:18

Alec

And then just turns of looks out the window. And that was my first experience. Like beyond like, hey, let's hold hands as we walk across, campus with a big open school. Wow, it's really funny. Now, at the time, it was just, really anxiety inducing and confusing. We essentially dated. I'll air quotes that we still, like, met up and hung out and went to the beach together and did movies together.


00:32:37:18 - 00:32:51:23

Alec

But that was the end of Physical Contact for it's like, I think she had built up that this was going to be, you know, like the pinnacle moment. And I knew at that point that she had dated other people, and she definitely was. I don't mean to sound in the same way, but she was definitely more experience than myself.


00:32:52:01 - 00:33:07:21

Alec

And yeah, I know, I think that just killed it for her. I think it was like somebody who maybe thinks they want to live in another country or really likes the food, and then they go to that country, and the first thing that happens is the car passes them and throws mud on them, and they just go, this is shit.


00:33:07:23 - 00:33:17:23

Alec

Now is that. And then, shortly through that year of schooling, I ended up switching schools. So my shame was able to, rest in peace over there. Wow.


00:33:18:00 - 00:33:35:02

Luna

Do you have any advice for, I don't know, forward ladies who were like, hi, hi. No. Yes. No. The signal. Like, I guess sometimes you just kind of let other people do whatever they're going to do. And if they don't pick up the signal, you just let them go. Or, like, is there any sort of like. I mean, you're so young in that story too.


00:33:35:03 - 00:33:37:05

Luna

That's that's just a first experience.


00:33:37:05 - 00:33:59:14

Alec

But that's the thing is, I think she thought I was missing the signals. And so I think she was like, oh, you know, the telegram didn't work. Let's put up a beacon like, oh, the beacon didn't work. Let's put. And she was continuously increasing signal strength. I read it all. I heard it all. I just had in case anybody in again was so afraid of screwing it up that I was just a deer in headlights with it.


00:33:59:16 - 00:34:20:10

Alec

Now, what would be the dream? And that situation would be to go back and me to have the lack of shame enough to go, hey, I really like you too, but I don't want to screw this up. And I've never kissed anybody, so I'm probably not good at it. What do you think? And she might go, oh, it or might go, well, I'll teach you.


00:34:20:11 - 00:34:22:13

Alec

You know, if, who knows, how could it go?


00:34:22:15 - 00:34:31:22

Luna

Who knows? Well, okay. So high school, middle high school. You switch schools. We only have a few years until you get to meeting your partner. If I'm doing math correctly.


00:34:32:00 - 00:34:57:05

Alec

Yeah. So I played in a, punk band throughout high school. I played bass guitar and was, occasionally and on and off front man for it. Just because for some reason, singers were less likely to show up to continuous practices than guitar players, bassists and drummers, I don't know. Yeah, and we had filthy songs and we had filthy songs about all the lovely things that we would like to do to people's genitalia and stuff like that.


00:34:57:05 - 00:35:20:14

Alec

Like our lead guitar player Kit. He was hilarious and, I don't know who to compare it to. I'm sure now, just like the lyrics of them people would think is Eminem ish or something like that, but it was punk, so it was a completely different presentation. But he had a whole songs he had written that were just like choruses of like, no, seriously, girl, I just want to lick you from where you pee and stuff like that.


00:35:20:14 - 00:35:41:04

Alec

That was overt, and I'm absolutely sure when he wrote it, he meant it and he meant it to the bone. But I ended up as the front man occasionally, and so I'd end up singing this stuff. And so there was this weird reputation that we got. I acquired more of a bad boy vibe than I perhaps deserved. A skateboarder played in the punk band, you know, surfer, whatever.


00:35:41:04 - 00:36:02:23

Alec

All this type of like stereotypical 90s, whatever stuff. So then when you front me on that stuff, I had a reputation somehow of being fantastic, a kind of linguist before I had ever seen a vagina. And I wasn't one to go out of my way to dispel this myth because, again, what makes me feel sexy? I like feeling desired.


00:36:02:23 - 00:36:25:05

Alec

And this had fantastic results where people had this held opinion. It wasn't like directly discussed with me. It's not like I had people coming up to me and said, I heard you're really good at this. It was just this kind of Mobius around me. And that resulted in, the first date with one of the girls that I dated in high school.


00:36:25:06 - 00:36:33:19

Alec

Well, I guess no, it was direct. Somebody bringing it up, and she went, hey, is it true that you can do this? And I mean, yeah, of course I can.


00:36:33:21 - 00:36:35:06

Luna

You did. But the very.


00:36:35:06 - 00:36:59:00

Alec

Same confidence of I've read enough, there's only so many ways I can screw it up. Right. I like twisted my tongue upside down. And the conversation was like, yeah, you're just upside down and you twist your tongue vertically and whatever else, and great. She too was young. She too did not have much experience in this, so she too had no idea whether I was serving her a fine champagne or, something from a gas station wine bottle.


00:36:59:03 - 00:37:19:19

Alec

So she thought it was fantastic. And that's great for me. And that was great. And because she had her little pot of friends and her extracurricular teams and stuff, and so I. Yeah, this reputation somehow worked out. And I don't know if it was the faking confidence or whatever else, but kissing and everything else just kind of came in, swoon with that.


00:37:19:19 - 00:37:40:19

Alec

You know, I figured that out as well with things. While I was dating her in high school, I took French class, Central Florida. Lots of kids who already knew Spanish took Spanish, and I went, I want to compete with them. This beat, Spanish tone and German was already for when I signed up. So I took French. I took French and was the only male in the class.


00:37:40:21 - 00:37:56:17

Alec

Kind of like I said earlier, we're doing pole dance. As a man. I liked being out of the way. I got to hang out with the girls who I'm much more comfortable around and whatever else. So that's where I met my wife. Now, at the time, she was dating someone else and so was I, and we met and we were just pals.


00:37:56:21 - 00:38:20:08

Alec

I mean, like, hung out in class, talked about music, made fun of the teacher, whatever, the high school bullshit. We didn't hang out outside of school or anything else. We just knew each other. Throughout the high school years, I ended up breaking up with other girlfriend and having another and breaking up and just normal high school pettiness. And at the time, IQ and AOL were big internet talk ways, whatever.


00:38:20:08 - 00:38:21:04

Luna

Oh yeah.


00:38:21:06 - 00:38:46:04

Alec

My now wife and I would talk on AOL just about crap, you know? Hey, is there another band at the concert venue this month? Whatever. We didn't go to concerts together or anything else. We just chatted and we both went away to college. I ended up dating another girl for three and a half years, pretty much from high school through early college, and when we went to college, we went to different colleges, and that just rapidly fizzled.


00:38:46:04 - 00:39:06:00

Alec

And I was heartbroken after it and thought like, oh my gosh, my parents were married young. They were both 18 when they wed. And so I had kind of come up in this like, oh, that's how it works. My sister was wed when she was 18. I think my grandparents were 18 and 19. It was just there was no one saying, this is the way it was just the path I saw.


00:39:06:06 - 00:39:24:18

Alec

Yeah. So I was heartbroken after this girl and I got into my collegiate slutty days, kind of found myself in a little bit of confidence at that time, I had gone from always being way too skinny, like I think my biceps were as big as my wrist through high school. It was not a healthy looking, thin for my frame and everything else.


00:39:24:20 - 00:39:47:18

Alec

But now at college I was working for the university as well. I was going out surfing like I worked for days and did school for days, and then I went surfing three. So that, combined with being late teens and whatever hormonal changes suddenly started to go, oh, I don't have to wear long sleeves and long pants all the time to hide my, you know, wiry, spindly ness or whatever else.


00:39:47:19 - 00:40:04:19

Alec

And at that time I lived 30, 45 minutes from my hometown, living there one night and one day I have the chat programs open on my computer and I get a message from my now wife just going, hey, do you remember me? It's like, yeah, we only like, hung out and talked for like years. What do you mean do I remember you?


00:40:04:21 - 00:40:24:09

Alec

And she was at a different university and had just broken up with her boyfriend. Said, hey, do you want to, you know, grab coffee or something sometime night? Yeah, sure. And she said to me, okay, great. So we met up for coffee. Nothing to it. And from there we went and said, well, let's do something else. We'll do a dinner and a movie thing.


00:40:24:09 - 00:40:39:04

Alec

And she says to me, well, is this like a date? Like we're just friends, or is this like a date date? So this is again, the, where a woman is being rather forward and I'm going, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. And so I probably let her sit there, you know, what felt like forever, probably five minutes or something.


00:40:39:04 - 00:40:56:16

Alec

And I went, let's go for a date style. So I talked to her. Her friend still lives in our hometown. I was going bowling with her and some friends that week and I said, hey friend, I have an actual date date with now spouse, you know, what do you think of that? She goes, a mutual friend of both of us, and she goes, if you go on a date with her, I'll fucking kill you.


00:40:56:16 - 00:41:14:12

Alec

She's not ready to date again. She just got out of relationship, you piece of shit. Now, she said that with a she didn't say it as angrily. She said it in the angry tone, but like, yeah, yeah, not as a I'm going to hurt you, but as a protect my friend. Like I'm being serious with you, but also being friends with you.


00:41:14:13 - 00:41:28:16

Alec

Yeah. And so yeah, we went on our date, everything went off good and we both went, hey, I'm not looking for, like, bullshit. Like, I don't want to. Hey, I'm heartbroken. Long relationship. And that sucked. Like, where do you see yourself in ten years? Do you want to have kids? What do you think of this? What do you think of this?


00:41:28:16 - 00:41:49:06

Alec

And we both just grilled the snot out of each other while we walked the beach for hours and hours until three in the morning or something, and then it sort of downpour on us and we ran back. We couldn't find which parking lot my truck was parked at, and we laughed about it. So we took a picture together on like the first cell phone with a camera or whatever back then.


00:41:49:09 - 00:42:05:18

Alec

Yeah, of the two of us in my truck and I regret it now. I cropped it and I cropped it because she was wearing a very nice white tank top, and we just got caught in the pouring rain, and it was completely see through at that point, and I have no idea why the hell I did that. But we still know that because we still have that picture.


00:42:05:18 - 00:42:22:02

Alec

And on our anniversaries, whatever will be, hey, here's our, you know, all these years together. And so I brought her home and, you know, gave her a hug. Whatever went to kiss her good night, she goes, no, no, no, no, you can't kiss me like that. So so here's this circle of like, where did I oh, shit. I'm like, okay.


00:42:22:02 - 00:42:39:14

Alec

Like, what did I do? When did they talk up? I didn't realize I fucked up and she's like, I don't want you to think I'm easy. So you have to wait at least three days. And then Prince, you know, skips Princess inside her household. Okay. Yeah. From there, it was just a steamroll. Wow.


00:42:39:16 - 00:42:51:01

Luna

Oh my gosh, what do you think? I'm not waiting on the kissing thing. I mean, I do notice that I don't wait to kiss and I'm single, so I'll just put that up there.


00:42:51:03 - 00:43:07:12

Alec

I'll say she she'll say that she regrets it now. But it was still worked out. It was really just like some of our first dates, like her ex was still calling her, being like, hey, you should move back to the city again. Again, we're very honest with you. So she was like, hey, this thing we have is really new in this thing he and I have.


00:43:07:12 - 00:43:25:03

Alec

It's like we have years of stuff and yeah, it got Rocky, but I don't know where I feel yet. And it was that a little, like hurtful to me. Yeah. Because I'm like, oh great. Now I'm in competition with this guy and he's already proven he's a shitbag. Like, come on. But at the same time that honesty was really appreciated because it was like, okay, cool.


00:43:25:03 - 00:43:35:23

Alec

Like, I know don't invest too deep emotionally, mentally, whatever you get until you figure this out. But hey, I'm still in the running, so let's keep trying to figure this out in my favor. Yeah.


00:43:36:01 - 00:43:50:00

Luna

I want to circle back to the part where you were going down on ladies. What happened to your anxious self? Was it the rock star thing, like the the rock star syndrome that suddenly made you be like, I could just do this? Or was it because you had nerd knowledge? Like, what was it for you?


00:43:50:05 - 00:44:10:01

Alec

It was somehow nerd knowledge combined with dick driving. Not even ego driven, just pure. Holy shit, this feels really good to me. Mentally, I am very satisfied. Other people are very satisfied. This is great. I'm giving someone pleasure and it's pleasurable to me in ways that I did not yet know.


00:44:10:05 - 00:44:20:11

Luna

Great. Okay, so in those details, I hear that you were getting the feedback both in your own body and it sounds like from partners that it was actually good and you were able to kind of like calibrate.


00:44:20:13 - 00:44:34:19

Alec

There was definitely feedback that, yeah, to a 17 year old kid seemed very positive. But yeah, I don't know. Beyond that. I just knew that I enjoyed it and other people reportedly did too. So that's kind of it.


00:44:34:23 - 00:44:52:05

Luna

Okay, I just because I'm a person that like, I guess it's a self-trust thing or it's a care, I don't know. That's where my anxiety comes up, where I'm like, was it good? Like what my what I don't know, like that's to me is so like bold and brave unless I'm really getting told to do something outside my comfort zone to just, like, initiate and do it.


00:44:52:05 - 00:45:17:06

Alec

So I struggle with that now with things. My wife all the time. We learned very early entering into Bdsm type stuff. My hearing and the phrase oh and the phrase ooh are very similar. And so we've had plenty of like oohs or O's that I've had to say we were sorry. I know I'm killing them out. Is that an oh, or is that a no?


00:45:17:08 - 00:45:31:20

Luna

Okay, so let's get into your kinky stuff. Like what? Are you going to tell us the details? You told us some really hot stuff in your intro. Where do you want to start? And also like pole dancing. How did that happen? Although 17 years is a long time. Take us away.


00:45:31:22 - 00:45:50:19

Alec

My wife into leaving this ex again. She wanted to find the confidence and get rid of her own vulnerabilities. So she went and paid a private studio to do nude photos of her. And so she did that. And that was before we had gotten together. That was one of their previous breakups. But she shared them online because she was really fucking proud of these and rightfully so.


00:45:50:21 - 00:46:12:18

Alec

So when we got together, she was still endeavoring to make something out of that. And this is again, I'm talking IRC in this now. This was way before modern commercialization of pornography. Like it was absolutely commercialized, but it just wasn't the same beast that it is today. And at the time, Playboy was still doing in-person trials and things.


00:46:12:20 - 00:46:31:10

Alec

So she went and went with me, and she had 1 or 2 of her friends with her, and she went and she auditioned with Playboy and got to meet some of their key named photographers and whatever else. And at the auditions that she was at, she was the only brunet and she was the only one with natural breasts.


00:46:31:12 - 00:46:51:07

Alec

She also happens to have very, very striking bright green eyes, which also just really helps her stand out. And so one of the key photographers for Playboy pulled her aside too and said, hey, I also, whether you know, they want you for this or not, I also want to shoot you. So she did end up being chosen from that audition casting.


00:46:51:07 - 00:47:16:09

Alec

She did get to appear in a couple different editions of Playboy, never the main line play. Oh no, she wasn't one of the main line playboys as just a single photo, never a spread or anything cool. And then she got to do some of their lingerie special editions. Through that photographer. We started meeting other local photographers because they'd say, hey, we're going to do a big photo bash, we're gonna get these ten girls, and we're going to go down to the beach and get them all naked and take a bunch of pictures and trade around.


00:47:16:11 - 00:47:34:04

Alec

And one of those people said, hey, you guys are pretty cool because people would always get iffy about me being there. They'd go, oh, great young guy. He's going to come and be jealous or get in her way or be a pain in the ass. You know, they all learn that from experience. And we would go, oh, well, if she doesn't know you, she's not going to be naked without somebody.


00:47:34:04 - 00:47:49:02

Alec

She does though, so do you want to do this or do you not want to? So I very quickly got the in with the pros where they were like, hey, yeah, I know he's cool. And one of them said, hey, you guys should go to this adult convention that I go to. There's lots of other photographers and stuff there.


00:47:49:06 - 00:48:11:04

Alec

And so we went to an adult fetish based convention. It's in Tampa, Florida. It's still running today. It's huge fetish con. And so we went knowing nothing, and we went for like a half day and hung out with these photographers. And we were just hanging out and chatting and, you know, watching other people do shoots and stuff. And inevitably one of the guys who owns a rather large rope producing company said, hey, have you ever been tied up?


00:48:11:04 - 00:48:32:17

Alec

And she goes, not yet. And they go, do you want to be? And she goes, oh, sure. So Pro guy just really quickly whipped together a pretty quick little chivalry thing, had her there in the hotel room. And they're like, how does that feel? Whatever else. And she's like, yeah, it's fine, whatever. And they're like, okay, well do you care if we do photos?


00:48:32:17 - 00:48:49:07

Alec

This is something I'm already here. Sure, go for it. So that's just like slowly escalated and it wasn't like a oh, we're trying to just push you one step further. It was absolutely a hey, is things cool? Like, do you want to like, you're here? You're only here at the convention for a day. Do you want to, you know, get more out of it.


00:48:49:09 - 00:49:05:11

Alec

And so she ended up doing nude chivalry type photos there. And then at the end, they dropped her a large amount of cash for it, not buying the rights or anything else. They were using it just for their own collections or whatever else at the time. But she wasn't expecting to be paid. She was just there for the experience.


00:49:05:13 - 00:49:19:18

Alec

Yeah, I was just there for the experience. We were just hanging out with good friends and talking art and trying people up over there. So the next year when that convention rolled around, we had set up our own stuff and whatever else, and we knew that there was money in this, and we knew these people were cool as heck.


00:49:19:20 - 00:49:43:19

Alec

And I really liked it. Had a huge overlap with the Tampa Renaissance Fest, which is the Bay area, which is so wonderfully named after, and the amount of people that attend the Renaissance Fest. And like their leather and whips and road art and the biker community, and then the fetish community was like, hey, I know you. Oh, you're like, all of these little things just tie together.


00:49:43:19 - 00:50:15:05

Alec

We know everybody. And so by then we were working in other content and other content. So many of the women that attend that will work with photographers and whatever else, but some of the photographer companies will show up and have a crew and they'll just be filming women doing solo work. Well, she had a guy, and so they would go, hey, if we do all the bondage on her, are you okay to, you know, go in there and spank or whatever else because you guys have a good dynamic here or something.


00:50:15:05 - 00:50:39:14

Alec

Yeah, sure. Whatever. So that escalated to us writing entire scenes of like, oh, hey, here's how we're going to do whatever. And then me running it and it just kind of worked. The the exhibition is to me liked it. I was a guy that could perform on camera. That alone got us a lot of things. But then also like, hey, when I'm pulling her hair and we're making out and stuff, it looks pretty real.


00:50:39:14 - 00:51:02:04

Alec

It looks actually passionate. Oh no, it really is. And so that footage and stuff sold better. So be content creators there. I already had things for feed and whatever else, like we already had, like, oh, these are, we lovingly call them the slut shoes. You know, you cannot walk in these. Well, she can walk in them, but you're not intended to walk in these, you know, six inch heels and stuff like that.


00:51:02:06 - 00:51:27:07

Alec

And so when content creators, especially in the fetish road, are like, oh, hey, and you have small potatoes and feet like, hey, is it okay if you, like, sucks on your toes while you do this? Not and I'm like, fuck yeah, it's okay. Yeah, let's do that. And so a lot of our growth there was driven by our own willingness again to do things, but it also was ways to explore things we were already interested in.


00:51:27:11 - 00:51:45:13

Alec

But it kind of got us over the hump. So if there's something that you are maybe interested in, but you're kind of like, I don't know. I don't know if it's worth setting up a crazy amount of dildos to do an insertion scene at home. Like, do I want to take the entire drawer out just to do that?


00:51:45:15 - 00:52:01:11

Alec

No, but if you're being paid for it, then oh yeah, you can make a whole thing out of going from this one to the next, one to the next and whatever. Yeah. And so that got us into a lot of stuff. We then made friends at our local dungeons because, hey, the same people and these travelers, as well as we made friends internationally from that.


00:52:01:14 - 00:52:20:13

Alec

One of the first conventions, we went to a gentleman that we're still in our lives. Now we're crossing on a crosswalk, not even at the convention center, just near to it. And she was wearing like a kind of pinup dress and heels, but not, you know, anything, adulteress of heels. I had, like a suit on or something, and he went, hey, this guy's wear, like a Hawaiian shirt.


00:52:20:14 - 00:52:34:21

Alec

He's from up north. And being in Florida with scorching him. And he was, hey, do you guys want to do pictures for a book? And we went, well, we normally only do paid shoots and stuff now anyway. That's a bummer. I'm trying to put this book together on the cheap, but you guys have a really cool look.


00:52:34:21 - 00:52:53:17

Alec

And if you end up with spare time, you should come to me and we'll. We'll see how this will work out. And then we met him again. We bumped into him in the halls or something. I said, okay, sure. Show us what you got. He goes by Lord Morpheus and he runs or ran for many, many years. He has multiple books written about bondage and rope and everything else.


00:52:53:19 - 00:53:14:14

Alec

And then he also ran for years the Morpheus Bondage Extravaganza, which took place worldwide. But it did have a location in Central Florida that we participated at. And from that, you know, she already had her little hey, I got to be in Playboy and published, and we were on these DVDs with these amateur companies and whatever else. But then we also got to be in a book.


00:53:14:14 - 00:53:36:05

Alec

So we're also published in there. And his book was all about different things people do. So he had sections on pegging, sections on rope play, foot worship, food play, all of this. And so we were kind of going, well, he has these people who are really like really, really into latex and rubber play. They have all the equipment.


00:53:36:05 - 00:53:54:15

Alec

Obviously that's who he's going to shoot for that section. So when it got into sections on pegging and stuff like that, we went, hey, yeah, that's us. Because early on, just in the discussions of like, hey, what's really weird, but what do you think you might like? It actually started out as like a, hey, you know, she's giving me a blowjob.


00:53:54:17 - 00:54:21:21

Alec

And throughout that she's, you know, playing with balls and whatever else. And then she's reactions from me and I back in that wonderful world of erotica and masturbatory youth, had read tons about prostate play and anal play for men. Likewise, despite considering myself completely hetero romantic, I had read group porn and homosexual porn, whatever else, through that. So I was like, okay, yeah, there's absolutely something to discover here.


00:54:21:23 - 00:54:37:00

Alec

And so because we were comfortable completely switching in these things, it worked for him because he could come in and get the content of, oh, well, here's a guy who's being a top in this scene, or here's a guy who's being pegged here and whatever else. And so we were thinking we were going, what can we do for this guy?


00:54:37:01 - 00:55:07:08

Alec

He's really great. He comes and hangs out with us and everything else. We really want to wow with something. And I went, you know, I bet he doesn't have anybody in his book that can suck their own cock. And she went, yeah, I bet you're right. And so I had been a teen and being tall, thin and lanky, I don't remember the day I found out, but I can reach and I can reach enough to put my nose to my testicles, like I can reach.


00:55:07:10 - 00:55:35:10

Alec

And people will go, oh, you must be really gifted. And it's like, I'm very flexible. I am not a exorbitantly large penis or anything else. I'm probably straight in the most statistical means of length that there could be for a white male in America, but I can reach and I don't mind reaching. So we filmed and did videography for him, and instead of it just being, oh well, here's just some random guy sucking his own cock, because sure, that might be somebody thing that might be great to somebody.


00:55:35:16 - 00:55:53:18

Alec

But instead we turned it into her, like rolling me up to do this. And so instead of it just being me doing that, she's doing it with me. So there's all these male fantasies of two people or whatever else, you know, having their lives on the opposite side of a cock at the same time and whatever else, we can do that.


00:55:53:18 - 00:56:13:17

Alec

And we didn't need a third person. So that became a fantastic conversation piece. There's a lovely photo of myself and my wife with a penis in our mouth, and everybody looks at it and twists their head and they go, there's only two of you in that picture, aren't there? But that was always a fun one. And so that became the party trick to pull out for content creation.


00:56:13:19 - 00:56:24:02

Alec

An early fetish website that's still around, that's a large site, categorizes everything. And I was very proud that we got to write to their webmasters and go, do you have a section on auto fellatio? Yeah. And they were like, what the hell is that?


00:56:24:05 - 00:56:24:17

Luna

Yeah.


00:56:24:19 - 00:56:44:12

Alec

And so we got that in. And so that was one of those this is something that we do. And other people go, whoa, wait. Wow. What? There used to be a Central Florida publication called What's Happening Orlando, that was primarily a gay and lesbian advertisement and small magazine that existed in the city. And they used to do an annual nude issue.


00:56:44:14 - 00:57:00:07

Alec

And through people we met up and they said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we you guys are okay being in the gay magazine, but you're a straight couple, right? It's just naked people right now. Like, yeah, it's like you were all going to wear costumes and be naked in a field and do naked modeling stuff and was like, great, great, great.


00:57:00:10 - 00:57:07:20

Alec

It got out as well that I was capable of this. And that turned into a whole another fun time. Just because a different audience.


00:57:07:20 - 00:57:29:04

Luna

That's so fun. You are definitely the first person that I have talked to who has made out with their partner on their own cock. How wonderful. I feel like you probably have a thousand stories for us, and I'm really curious about all the details, but I want to highlight some of like the stuff that we haven't talked about yet that you mentioned.


00:57:29:06 - 00:57:46:04

Luna

First, I want to start with pole dancing. Like I know that that's not explicitly sexual. That's technically kind of, but it is erotic for so many people. And I would just like, love to hear because you mentioned it. Like, did it work into your sex lives at all? And did you think of it as sex worker? Was it all sounds very exploratory.


00:57:46:04 - 00:57:48:14

Luna

Also, hashtag life goals.


00:57:48:20 - 00:57:54:10

Alec

So we never did it for pay. Well, I take it back. We took classes for pay.


00:57:54:10 - 00:57:54:21

Luna

Got it.


00:57:54:21 - 00:58:27:22

Alec

But the classes that we taught were much more based on gymnast sex style pole dancing than it was erotic style at first. So we had moved across the country at one point and my wife started doing pole fitness just to feel herself kind of an empowerment thing. And I also was not so healthy at the time. It's I was running and counting calories and all this kind of stuff, and in my mind I when she goes off and dances with her friends for an hour a night, three nights a week, and she's now freaking ripped and I'm running.


00:58:27:22 - 00:58:49:15

Alec

I'm eating food I don't like, I'm counting calories, and I still look like shit and I feel like shit too. And so I said, I said, so would it be crazy if I came to your classes and then went, no. Why? So I went and started taking classes as a student at first, and it was a bit of a struggle because it is not purely a male versus female anatomy, but it is a large portion of it, centers of gravity and things.


00:58:49:15 - 00:59:24:15

Alec

So some of the more gymnastic type movements that are perhaps lower on the learning scale for women are higher on the learning scale for men. Likewise, certain things that many women will struggle to do because of hip based weight centers, a man may be easier at initially simple things like inverting into ideas and things like that. Very often men will find that they have a preexisting upper body strength and that their hip weight, momentum, they're able to do it, whereas that's something that for women entering into these things, it's normally considered a level two three plus move for them.


00:59:24:17 - 00:59:50:20

Alec

So I struggled a little bit because the instructors didn't know what to do with me because of this. And we found that there was a huge movement overseas, particularly in Europe and Eastern Europe, with very stunt based male pole dancers. A lot of them exist in the United States as well. There's some ridiculously amazing people here too. But like when we were first going through Instagram and online, this is like 2015 time period when we got into pole dancing, a lot of what we saw was overseas.


00:59:50:20 - 01:00:12:13

Alec

So instead of going to my instructors and saying, help, what do I do? We could go in and say, hey, here's something a guy's doing. Is that something I can do? Particularly things that I was very weak at a lot of doing pole dancing is thigh holes. I always joked to people, my thighs don't even see the sun, much less see the friction pressure of holding 200 pounds off the ground.


01:00:12:15 - 01:00:37:04

Alec

Whereas women often have better thigh grip, their thighs are more used to being exposed. Shorter shorts, whatever else. So I got into that and did just like the studio Zocalo, hey, come to a show off thing, whatever else. And they had classes. They also were heels classes, so these were much more eroticism based. They were kind of the crossover with the chair tees, classes and stuff.


01:00:37:06 - 01:00:58:16

Alec

So chair Tease for us did circle into the bedroom, but almost humorously like learning particular moves and going, okay, I'm going to do a chair dance for you, whatever. Whereas our home pole is installed in its own room and we have very nice lighting in there and stuff like that, but it's not, you know, nice bedroom thing or whatever else.


01:00:58:16 - 01:01:11:13

Alec

It's, it's a this is a fitness area. Yeah. So the heels classes I started going to and they said, you know, you don't have to wear heels whatever. So I go to women's socks, I could slide around and do tricks. And then I went, okay, I'm going to learn this. I, I've seen enough of the guys do this.


01:01:11:13 - 01:01:33:10

Alec

I can do this. I had a very large struggle finding pole dancing heels in my shoe size that I think we're actually considered for pole dancing. I think most of them were considered for drag queens to do performances with. Yeah, so there wasn't a entry level, two inch, three inch, four inch heel. There was eight inch heels. Yeah.


01:01:33:12 - 01:01:57:07

Alec

So I got my introduction to pole dancing in heels in eight inch boots and so much of its platform that I was amazed by how good I was at walking in them, naturally. So another studio open in the state we were in, and we helped fund a little bit of their starting, and we were doing everything from painting to installing floors and whatever else for them, and it was purely a sport based pole dancing place.


01:01:57:09 - 01:02:19:08

Alec

But people kept going. But don't you guys do erotic classes sometime, right? Sometimes, like maybe after your clothes? And so we started an after dark class and I got a I am not a certified pole instructor. My wife has gone through different certifications and she is qualified, certified, whatever. So she would run the classes, I would come in for choreography or doing the examples and whatever else.


01:02:19:10 - 01:02:40:07

Alec

And so we ended up doing the after dark shows or classes, excuse me, to bring in anybody, whether they had ever done a poll or whether they were rather advanced. And we do over the course of like three courses, here's an entire five, eight minute long song choreography. But we're also teaching you the tricks in the middle of it and whatever else.


01:02:40:09 - 01:03:04:17

Alec

We ended up having male students as well, so we also had fun with adjusting various things. It wasn't super gendered, but there are times where it's like, hey, during this pause or break, if you're a male or female or whoever wants to do whatever you may choose to do this part and, you know, thrust, grind or whatever in this manner versus if you're somebody who can do this aerial move, you might do that because it would accentuate your butt very nicely.


01:03:04:19 - 01:03:15:23

Alec

From there, we just ended up doing local bar performances, burlesque shows, just stuff like that. My wife is definitely way more acrobatic and powerful with it than I am, but I got to be the token male.


01:03:16:04 - 01:03:30:13

Luna

I wanted to ask you, did you guys know how compatible you were? Sexy wise? Am I projecting here? It sounds like you're so compatible and you did so many sexy things together. And here you are still, like sneaking around a bunch of kids.


01:03:30:15 - 01:03:50:11

Alec

I think the compatibility came from the openness part. Occasionally I'll sit down and have conversation with her and go, hey, do you have any really wild ideas that you think about that I haven't done yet? And very often we just go, no, because if we did, we would have already brought it up. It's kind of like trying to buy gifts for each other at the holidays.


01:03:50:11 - 01:04:16:10

Alec

We go, do you mean for your birthday? And we go, no. If we needed something or wanted it, we bought it when we could because we did. So I don't know if when we were both 19, we had all of these things already sprouted inside of us and they just happened to align. I think it's more so that we had kind of firm roots about what we wanted out of life or a relationship.


01:04:16:12 - 01:04:26:19

Alec

And hey, if you plant two trees in the same field, they're both going to grow towards the same sun. And so you both kind of branch out in that same direction. And I think that helped us along. Wow.


01:04:26:19 - 01:04:39:06

Luna

Well, not everyone has the same experience. I can say that for sure. I would love to hear if you're fetishism. Well, first of all, how do you experience it? And it did it come from that first day when they were like, do you want to suck your toes?


01:04:39:08 - 01:04:51:12

Alec

So I could get into all types of Freudian analyzation? I think some of that's just Florida. And Florida is a very sandal and painted toes and beachy state. It's another part of the body that's out.


01:04:51:17 - 01:04:54:12

Luna

But you like them or do you like yours to be worshiped or both?


01:04:54:18 - 01:05:00:10

Alec

Oh no, I have no interest in having mine ever. Not in shoes. Ever touched ever.


01:05:00:12 - 01:05:01:02

Luna

Really?


01:05:01:06 - 01:05:21:05

Alec

Yeah. I just couldn't care less about it. It's not like an aversion to it. It's just not an interest of mine. It started as purely a just a visual thing. If I saw a person who has a nice face, I like a nice face for whatever value of nice that is. It's the same thing for legs, but any part of the human body.


01:05:21:10 - 01:05:42:18

Alec

At first it was just part of the whole picture with doing feelings of in with experimenting with each other at all. Yeah, you get little early card games that are like, would you ever do this or whatever? And it's just such a big category. Yeah, it's like, I think other than perhaps rope bondage or blindfolds, it's like probably even passes those as far as like stereotypical male fantasy things.


01:05:42:20 - 01:05:43:20

Luna

Really.


01:05:43:22 - 01:05:44:06

Alec

Oh, because.


01:05:44:07 - 01:05:56:04

Luna

I literally so few people talk about it with me. I have a huge fantasy about going to dinner with someone who has a foot fetish and putting them under the table, and I have yet to meet someone who, like, will admit if they have that fetish.


01:05:56:04 - 01:06:17:06

Alec

Like I know that's wild to me. Maybe it's because all my search histories and everything else are tuned to me because of the modern internet. But even when we were filming stuff that seemed like a very popular category, there's categories of people who really love sweaty feet, dirty shoes. This not there's a whole category for like pedal pumping, like, let's get the trunk stuck and we're doing this.


01:06:17:08 - 01:06:37:09

Alec

My wife's done some of the pedal pumping videos, but that's not erotic to me. That's not my cup of tea with it. My cup of tea with it, outside of just the visual look of it, is very specifically physical and sexually based. So I like the texture. Hands feel different on the body, even just rubbing on the back hands feel different than a foot does.


01:06:37:12 - 01:07:01:23

Alec

Yeah, particularly with regards to the penis, the face being freshly shaved on the face and having hands or feet or breasts, any part of body. It's also a good way with my switching to get into to a, I don't feel like it's a topping from the bottom, but some people will say it is where it's a hey, I'm in the interest of doing something where I can provide you pleasure, and I find it sexual.


01:07:01:23 - 01:07:20:03

Alec

Whether or not you find it sexual and having someone allow you to give them a foot rub, most people aren't like, oh no, no, not that anything but that. It's pretty. It's a pretty easy way in. We do a lot of massage. We do hot stone massage, wax massage, whatever for the whole body. But feet are a focus of that and shoes and stuff.


01:07:20:03 - 01:07:39:21

Alec

I just that's, part foot fantasy that also gets into legs and stuff. Just the again, doing pole dance and being in higher heels. The change that it makes to your hamstrings and glutes and everything else is very visually appealing to me. And then with feet too, there's some of the subservience in it, not in the service method.


01:07:40:01 - 01:08:00:18

Alec

I still haven't found quite the way around it. Whether it's humiliating degradation, or if it's just a objectification or something of like, hey, I'm in a really feeling submissive mood or want to get out of my head. Whatever, you're watching a show, can I just lay there in front of you and have you put your feet on me, or rub them over my face or whatever?


01:08:00:20 - 01:08:21:03

Alec

And I would be completely content to just have her sit there and not give me any interest at all. There's a kind of a bored and ignored fetish there if, like, I'm not giving you the attention you want, but I'm not, like completely stuffing you in a corner and giving you zero attention, I'm being like, yeah, you can use that if you want to, like feigned reluctance.


01:08:21:05 - 01:08:41:09

Alec

So I like to have them on my penis, whether they're dry or whether there were lotion. I like to feel them on my body pretty much anywhere. Normally they end up on my face, my chest, whatever, particularly during penetrative sex. It's like, hey, I'm already putting your calves across my chest. What if I just bend your knee a little bit and then I can do this as well?


01:08:41:13 - 01:09:05:00

Alec

Sometimes it's very involved foot jobs from her perspective, where she's like, really killing her thighs because of whatever position we're laying in. And she's lifting her entire leg over and over or whatever else. Other times it's, hey, can you lay on the side of the bed and just present your soul to me, and I'm going to stand there and just fuck them because it feels nice and you can relax and whatever else.


01:09:05:02 - 01:09:22:02

Alec

A personal favorite that we got into. It started as a joke. We both kind of were like, haha, food plan. People always talk about sex with food when they always want to talk about whipped cream, and they want to put it close to their genitals and stuff, and it's such a bad decision. But my wife is a very excellent baker.


01:09:22:02 - 01:09:41:04

Alec

We have large fruit and vegetable gardens and stuff, so she makes pies. And so when you're half joking for my birthday, I said, Will you feed me a pie with your feet? And so that's what she did. So I was just completely stripped down again. I kind of like the, clothed female nude male or completely naked. Both of us.


01:09:41:05 - 01:09:54:01

Alec

Pending mood. We have a couch in our room, and we have the bed in the room, and she just sat on the edge of the bed and put a piece of pie. I didn't want to ruin the whole pie, and we didn't know how this would go and just put a piece of pie on the ground and just kind of tapped in it.


01:09:54:01 - 01:10:11:22

Alec

And at first and very just, like, present a piece for me to eat off of her foot or whatever else. And then it kind of turned funny where she, you know, stuff it in there with her foot or, you know, kind of smeared across my face, which is that little bit of playfulness. Yeah. I see it as kind of a degrading thing, but that's not her intention.


01:10:11:22 - 01:10:13:12

Alec

It's just the playfulness.


01:10:13:14 - 01:10:28:17

Luna

Oh my God. Okay, we talked about chastity a little bit at the beginning, but what about specifics of like, do you wear anything you have accouterment that go with it? Like, is there anything more to say about it that feels like relevant? And then I do want to hear about like pregnancy and lactation play.


01:10:28:19 - 01:10:51:14

Alec

At one point in our early internet days, we also ended up doing testing of toys for a couple of toy companies. There weren't that many couples. They could get reviews from single women, single men. But having reviews from a couple was different. Yeah, and across those, when you go on the web to any different sales site, there's here's toys for women, here's masturbator for men, here's strap ons for whoever wants strap ons.


01:10:51:16 - 01:11:20:14

Alec

And then when you look specifically at couples toys, it's very limited. And couples toys normally points to things like a Wii vibe, whether it's a vaginal insert, a ball that has a second one that comes out for clitoral stimulation, and then there's cock rings. And that's pretty much it. Normally, maybe, maybe we have some velvet handcuffs or something so early on we had experience with cock rings and we did scenes like, oh, nurse, the conquering stuck on me.


01:11:20:18 - 01:11:47:04

Alec

How do I get rid of my erection? And in searching for cock rings, also got into balls weights, which looks similar to a cock ring but are often longer, like a half inch inch line and they're normally magnetic. So whereas a concrete you kind of have to squeeze everything in there. Yeah, these you literally pull your testicle down some and then magnets on and you make sure that you don't have a pinch of skin where that magnet hits because they're rare earth magnets and they work.


01:11:47:06 - 01:12:09:15

Alec

And I discovered that. And a lot of the community will use that to purposefully elongate their testicles for esthetic purposes or whatever else. But to me, it was twofold. It was one it was really rapid bondage. It's something that is there. It's a very heavy weight. You feel it, you know it. And the other one where it plays interestingly, is like doggy style sex.


01:12:09:15 - 01:12:35:00

Alec

My wife had commented on that she really enjoys the smacking of testicles against her vagina during doggy style sex. Oh well, hey, if I can amplify that without me having to run a marathon, to really slam in there and risk early ejaculation because of that, great. So these are like me going, hey, things that go on the penis and testicles and where else?


01:12:35:00 - 01:12:57:16

Alec

These are cool things that are a little bit different from our vibrators, our strap ons, whatever else. So with trying to figure out my mindset and what we're both switching, I'm further to each end of the spectrum than she is. So maybe I'm a negative ten to a plus ten, and she goes from a negative five to a plus five.


01:12:57:18 - 01:13:23:01

Alec

So I can really swing very early. And so I was trying to figure out ways where I can have the mindset that I want to, of being controlled or anything else without requiring excessive out of comfort zone from her on that and enter the online community and seeing chastity cages. And we had dealt with female chastity devices for some of her early shoots, bondage people and stuff.


01:13:23:01 - 01:13:43:23

Alec

One of them was a very good steelworker, and he made very elaborate female chastity cages. But they were play pieces. And that's how chastity started for us at first. Is it started as just play. There are many people who choose to do it very long term, or they set limits for themselves and reward periods, whether they're in a relationship or not.


01:13:44:01 - 01:14:01:01

Alec

For us, at first it was playtime thing. It was like, hey, everybody's in bed, we're going to shower. We're going to feel good. I'm freshly cleaned. And she would go, hey, I'm going to go start the dishes or something. That doesn't sound sexy. I'm going to disappear for a little bit, see if you can get yourself cooled down, because you have to be soft to be able to get the damn thing on.


01:14:01:03 - 01:14:21:04

Alec

There's part of that too, of like knowing that it's coming, knowing that it's going on. That alone is a fight because it's like, oh, hey, stop being excited so that we can be excited and so it would go on and we would get into whatever sexual participation we were going to get into that night and the confinement of it.


01:14:21:10 - 01:14:54:00

Alec

Most of the devices are some type of either nylon or steel cage that goes over the penis. And then you have essentially a conquering behind the testicles that that attaches to. So if you attempt to become erect in it, there is a restriction around the girth of your penis, there's a restriction around the length of your penis. And if your penis starts to win against the nylon or steel, whatever your device is made out of, then that back conquering that's behind your testicles will start to push forward, which also will now add a restriction or a pressure to your testicles.


01:14:54:02 - 01:15:13:19

Alec

It is a discomfort that, with a properly fitting device is a very good discomfort. To me. It is a I want this and I'm having it taken from me. To us though it was very session based, it was hey, we take shower, we manage. I managed to get this on to come back. We'd make out we'd have oral sex with.


01:15:13:19 - 01:15:33:00

Alec

Sometimes it would just be, hey, I'm going to give you a hot stone massage, whatever else which that alone to me, has me struggling within my confines. And then some nights she would go, okay, thank you. And that's the end of the night. So early on at the okay. Thank you. Neither of us were comfortable with me sleeping in it, because people who are new to it will still have nocturnal erections and stuff like that.


01:15:33:00 - 01:15:49:21

Alec

And you wake up. Likewise, you can urinate while wearing the device, but normally you're going to want to be seated. And sometimes it, if you like, wake up at 4 a.m. and you have to get it. Yeah. It's just you don't want to mess with that at first. And so at first it would still be like, okay, well thank you for the experience and unlock me.


01:15:49:21 - 01:16:14:10

Alec

And we put the device away and still good bad. Or there's been many a time where it's worked well for both of us because me not knowing if it's going to turn into an orgasmic or whatever else situation for me allows me to focus better. I feel like it's a little bit like putting blinders on a horse. It doesn't stop the performance of that horse, but it lets them become more focused on the task at hand.


01:16:14:12 - 01:16:39:08

Alec

And so if I'm not focused on my own pleasure, or conversely, if I'm not focused on restricting my own pleasure to not ejaculate too early and feel like I ruined something and whatever else, then I'm free of all those thoughts. It also allowed her to go, oh gosh, this thing that I already know. He thinks of it as a reward, but now he really thinks of it as a reward.


01:16:39:10 - 01:17:05:08

Alec

My first device, I think, was an eBay. I feel like this is common in the community. It was like an eBay $12. I made sure that it, you know, didn't have sharp edges on it. It wasn't going to hurt me. Whatever worked didn't fit poorly or anything else. But we eventually, after a year or more of that, went to a slightly more expensive device that is made in the USA and is 3D printed and well sanded.


01:17:05:08 - 01:17:26:22

Alec

And instead of having like two sizes, you have ten sizes of the ring and who knows how many sizes of the actual penis part, so you can get a very appropriate fit. And that allows much longer term where you don't end up with chafing. It's safe to wear through metal detectors and travel gates. It is safe to swim in and go to the beach.


01:17:26:22 - 01:17:30:21

Alec

And and because of that, it allows you to do more.


01:17:30:23 - 01:17:33:00

Luna

Have you done any of these things?


01:17:33:02 - 01:17:53:23

Alec

Yes. We just a month or so ago went on a cruise. Don't get the impression that it's a strict as flying, but I is a metal lock. But it's such a small amount and it's right behind your zipper and your button on your jeans. So even if they do call you out, they normally just want it. And there's been people who just say, oh, I have jewelry.


01:17:54:01 - 01:18:12:12

Alec

And the very worst case scenario is you show the agent your jewelry because normally if you tell them you've got jewelry, they presume you have a Prince Albert piece piercing or something like that and just say, yeah, go ahead Uber. Yeah. But being on that cruise it allowed moored in the ocean, moored in pools, wear it on their clothing, whatever else during that.


01:18:12:14 - 01:18:52:03

Alec

And that took something and just added a little extra elevation of mentally whatever. Because then even when we're doing some other action, it's still present as like a reminder. I feel like it's kind of like wedding bands to people or callers with submissives where they go, hey, I can feel my colors there. I can feel when it isn't there, because you also get ghosting with it, where if you've worn it for a period of time and then you take it off, then hours later, the day later, or whatever else you might be like, oh, okay, no, it's not there, but it feels like it is, because, yeah, our new endeavor with it is,


01:18:52:05 - 01:19:18:08

Alec

ejaculating without removing. Gosh. So that's gone back to using high touch magic wands and stuff to stimulate the penis and the testicles. Still, while the cage is on, as well as I've many times in my life been able to experience hands free ejaculation through pegging and getting it through pegging while not being able to get a full erection due to the cage or endeavoring to something.


01:19:18:10 - 01:19:28:07

Luna

Oh, that's so cool, you guys have done so much cool stuff. I really am curious to hear about the pregnancy and lactation stuff.


01:19:28:09 - 01:19:48:18

Alec

So we are both planners. I said that first date on the beach. Why do you want kids you want this night? And throughout our time, over 17 years, between different jobs we've had, whether we were working long hours, different diets, we've had different financial situations and whatever else both of us have had varying body images in our relationship.


01:19:48:18 - 01:20:17:00

Alec

I've been everything from 160 pounds when I was, you know, fresh out of high school and stuff to over 235 pounds when I first started pole dancing. So through that, we both spent a lot of time affirming that our love and or desire for our partner is not based on the flesh suit we're wearing, but also constantly reminding them that we do really, really, really like it anyways.


01:20:17:00 - 01:20:48:11

Alec

Yeah, and when she got pregnant, I had this fantastic idea that I'm going to become this model husband and model parent and make sure that I take advantage of her. Oh well, she's going to need lotion and she's going to need foot rubs because she's going to have, you know, potentially swelling in her feet or anything else. Oh, her back, it's going to suck because this kid's gonna put weight on the front of her, and it's going to tilt her hips, and her back is going to need a lot of attention through hot stone massage and anything else that we can think of.


01:20:48:13 - 01:21:14:18

Alec

And so it allowed me to play out a lot of that. But so there's like this whole other woman that emerged from her because even before our first child was born, the maternal instincts and tendencies and whatever else came out in her. So things like reading books to our unborn child and things like that. So there was a lot of nurturing that was to her body, but it was to her body for the sake of our child.


01:21:14:20 - 01:21:51:05

Alec

And there's also intention and studies regarding exposure of unborn children to loud sounds like living in industrialized areas and stuff, as opposed to exposing the same child to very light and gentle classical music at night, things like that. And I'll say that there's research, but I can't quote it regarding the mindset of the mother throughout pregnancy and the wellness that that will assist the child with if a mother's body is constantly pushing harmful or negative thoughts.


01:21:51:05 - 01:22:15:07

Alec

And that's not to blame anybody who has those, it's not to say they're doing something wrong, but that is less preferred than someone who is experiencing happiness continuously or having their brain dump a lot of serotonin into their body. So pleasuring them, whether it's purely sexual pleasure or just happiness, feeling loved, whatever else has another level of importance.


01:22:15:07 - 01:22:41:17

Alec

At that point, you are not just trying to make one person feel good, you are trying to make one person feel good and nurture another and set the one that you're nurturing up for a positive upbringing. So that's the nice thought of it. The other part of it is just there's this other woman now. There is body changes, there is hip changes, there are changes to the abdomen.


01:22:41:17 - 01:23:15:15

Alec

There are changes to the breasts. If there is a part of someone when they are pregnant, it changes. The closest thing I can compare it to, to someone who hasn't had a spouse or hasn't gone through pregnancy is If you take the eroticism of your partner or somebody else like, can dyeing their hair and dressing in a way that they never have before, if you take that and like multiply it by a thousand, like it's the, you know that the core person that you love and care for is here, but it's a whole new book cover on it that's like a very light dabbling into it.


01:23:15:15 - 01:23:34:06

Alec

But you just take that in like, oh, really, really ramp it up. And that's where it is. Lactation began, shortly before giving birth, but it's a different consistency at that point in time for, for an early infant. So we were both very hesitant about doing anything with it because we're like, oh gosh, you have to make sure there's enough for it.


01:23:34:08 - 01:23:35:03

Alec

You don't want to steal.


01:23:35:03 - 01:23:36:01

Luna

The baby's food.


01:23:36:04 - 01:23:58:17

Alec

Exactly. But she was fantastic with it. Her child was fantastic with it as well. No problems with latching or anything else, but she also would find herself producing excessively. A lot of people have this, and they end up selling it to different, milk banks and leagues that work with women who are not producing sufficiently. But she wasn't eligible to do that because of her gestational diabetes.


01:23:58:17 - 01:24:25:02

Alec

They considered her to have a preexisting health condition. So, hey, we don't want your excess at the same time, because of that, she would have situations where a child would choose to breastfeed from just one breast. So we have a very humorous picture that my wife took a selfie that she had where she has an egg cup breast on one side of her and like a D on the other, because the one adding gorged and our child refusing to drink from it.


01:24:25:04 - 01:24:43:11

Alec

So the correct thing to do is not let it get to that extreme. When it's slightly smaller, either you force the child over or you pump it. So she was just pumping it, and at times when she would be in a hot shower or something, she would just plain leak. Well, shower time is really easy. Time to get, hey, a little bit of privacy and sexual time.


01:24:43:17 - 01:25:04:15

Alec

So very often, almost always we're showering together and, well, hey, if I'm already in the shower with you and you're squeezing, they'll go to your breast and it's shooting, however. Hey, what's that like? And that was the oh, tasting in whatever else and then finding it's fun. Unfortunately, to everybody who's ever thought of it, it does not work well as a lubricant.


01:25:04:17 - 01:25:05:08

Alec

It is.


01:25:05:08 - 01:25:05:14

Luna

Yeah.


01:25:05:14 - 01:25:42:17

Alec

No, the the disappointment of men and women everywhere. We also, did that for fat content because we were still doing that push content and fetish content with a pregnant woman as a market. And then when you're no longer pregnant, there's still absolutely a market for breast milk, whether it's just pumping, whether it's spraying it all over the shower wall and drawing your finger through it, whether it's, using it in conjunction with coconut oil or something to do handjobs, whether it's just suckling at the breast and tasting it or whatever else, there's a market for it, and it's fun.


01:25:42:17 - 01:26:04:17

Alec

So if we're already going to do this, it's already fun for us. It doesn't take that long to post, produce a very amateur level clip and make some money off it. So that was with our first child, and then she breastfed rather continuously. And then when we had years later, our second child, first child is often overprotected. You go, oh my gosh, they tripped and fell.


01:26:04:22 - 01:26:21:19

Alec

You're okay. You're okay. By the second child you go, oh yeah, they don't have like their kneecaps are solid yet. It's okay that you felt like if you're not screaming, you're not hurt. Like, it's okay, honey, you're fine. And the same is true of the pregnant body. The second time. The first time we weren't so ridiculous as to go.


01:26:21:19 - 01:26:53:17

Alec

Oh, no. Am I hurting the baby by putting my penis in you? We weren't like that. But there was positional concerns like, oh, hey, is being doggy style is that, you know, you're swinging around it and whatever else is that going to be problematic? We had a lot less of those concerns for the second child, which allowed us to be a lot more adventurous with things still not doing anything bondage, Bdsm, whatever with it, but even just with casual sex and whatever else, being more adventurous than we would have been out of initial caution.


01:26:53:18 - 01:27:17:00

Alec

Likewise, I am big on lists and experiences and categorizing things. We don't participate in anal sex often. We do pegging stuff, but we don't do anal sex very often. It's just not of interest. But I went, hey, so you're nine months pregnant. They're doing two weeks. Never have I ever had anal sex with a pregnant woman.


01:27:17:02 - 01:27:34:22

Alec

And that was one of those, like, explicit yes things days before giving birth and were having sex and interacting throughout it, whatever else. And she pauses and kind of pushes my shoulders up and going, oh, you know, day angle wrong or something at that. And she goes, never. Have you ever had anal sex with a pregnant woman? And when?


01:27:35:00 - 01:27:54:12

Alec

Yep. And you couldn't zip around and find, you know, lubrication quick enough, then, that was a fantastic experience as well, because there's well, because it's a fantastic experience. But I had like to think in my head that there's also anatomical hip changes and whatever else that also makes it different. Oh, and then you have lactation stuck around through that with our three children.


01:27:54:12 - 01:28:10:22

Alec

Each of them nursed until they were about two years old. But when we say until they're two years old, that's not eight times a day as you do an infant, that's like, hey, after year one, you get like this at night time just to help you go to sleep for the whole night, whatever else. Which means the rest of the time, it's all for me.


01:28:11:00 - 01:28:12:05

Alec

Wow.


01:28:12:05 - 01:28:21:05

Luna

Oh, this is incredible. Okay, obviously, we need to start wrapping up, but would you just, like, list off other stuff you've done and loved?


01:28:21:07 - 01:28:40:22

Alec

Fucking machines were a great adventure in the fetish. The fucking machines. Forced orgasms, particularly forced orgasm with bondage work. A lot of fun. While I worked at the university, I worked with the security systems there, so I knew the blind spots. So we had a particular parking garage rooftop that we liked to go to film at the top of.


01:28:41:01 - 01:28:56:21

Alec

Amazing. The first time we filmed up there, I had blindfolded her and drove around, and she didn't know if we were still on campus or not, and then just took her out of my truck, parked the trucks that was blocking the one camera angle view, and had her bent to the side of the parking garage and fucked her there.


01:28:56:21 - 01:29:23:20

Alec

And that had a really fun, I don't know where I am, I don't know if there's an audience. I don't know anything else. We've dealt with all sorts of really weird toys through toy testing. A favor that stands out to us is there was a talking dildo. It was intended for husbands to, like, record erotic audio for their wife while they went out of town, but it came with a sample disc, and the sample disc was a very heavy French accent demanding what this woman does.


01:29:23:22 - 01:29:41:19

Alec

And, we gave it away. We gave it away at one of the conventions we went to, and we had roommates at the convention. We let some somebody stay with us, and we woke up in the middle of the night because we just heard groaning from the bed next to us. So there was us and one queen, our friend in another queen, and then another model sleeping on the pull out couch.


01:29:41:21 - 01:30:00:03

Alec

And we hear this like moaning coming from her friend's bed. And he was a single man, very respectful. And we're like, he's not over there doing anything good. What is the moaning? And we flip on the lights and the model is perked up in her bed because she thinks my wife and I are having sex and she's just like waiting to see something.


01:30:00:05 - 01:30:17:04

Alec

And we look and here's the guy in the middle out of our grab bag of toys we were giving away. He had taken the talking dildo because he thought it was hilarious. So he had it there and we were just holding it up like a lightsaber as he goes. Take off your top three large insertions and stuff like that.


01:30:17:06 - 01:30:33:20

Alec

Strangely, we did a lot more large insertions to not quite almost fisting levels of stuff. Pre children post children. There's a little bit more hesitancy about it mentally for both of us. But it's also just time. That's not a everybody's eating dinner. Let's get in there and do it.


01:30:33:22 - 01:30:51:06

Luna

Yeah. You don't want to rush that one. Okay, before I ask you the wrap up questions, I would really love to hear you speak briefly to your extreme switches side. I suspect I might have that in common, but I'm just getting to know the other half of it.


01:30:51:08 - 01:31:14:06

Alec

So I have trouble negotiating it because I early on tried to negotiate it within other people's boundaries. So, you know, little quizzes, they're like, do you like this? And I'm like, yeah, I really like tying people up. Do you like being tied up? Yeah, I really like being tied up. And it seems a lot of those things just people think cancel themselves out.


01:31:14:08 - 01:31:43:02

Alec

And I struggle again with dominant versus top because I intermingle them versus submissive side and bottom side. For me, I really like topping a lot of things that I find aren't sex, so I like topping rope play. I like topping impact play. I say that I like sexually topping. There are times where I am very in control. I am very subjectively violent.


01:31:43:04 - 01:32:08:06

Alec

I am controlling, demanding, demeaning, whatever else. But when I topping stuff, I think of non bedroom things and I say that like sitting in our dungeon when I think submissively, that is my escape. It's my Alice's Wonderland. It is. The world is crazy. I want to go somewhere else. And that's not a I want to go somewhere else, like I want to be somewhere else.


01:32:08:06 - 01:32:30:11

Alec

It's more again, perhaps the horse blinders. So that becomes very service oriented, especially cleaning things, caring for things I do leather work. I'll find myself going and finding her leather boots and cleaning and conditioning them. Just because it's a hey, this is me caring for you, but I realize you're busy and this is what I want to do.


01:32:30:12 - 01:33:07:22

Alec

As well as receiving impact play, receiving things like that, having joking and teasing about maybe value as a person or whatever else. Because from my wife I can hear like you are worthless. You are just a dick here to be ridden when I want to. I can hear that type of stuff and I can believe it, but I can believe it within the safety of knowing where it's being delivered from, as opposed to coming from a work thing or somebody else where I feel like I fucked up whatever else, and I will sit and dwell on that and go, how could I?


01:33:08:04 - 01:33:29:03

Alec

What should I have said differently in that meeting or that interview or that anything? And I will get stuck in feedback loops of analyzing my own behavior and having those other things allows me to turn down that other noise, or perhaps to turn up a white noise around it. So day to day, like people who go, oh, I know that guy.


01:33:29:03 - 01:34:00:18

Alec

He's definitely a bottom, a top, a switch or whatever. I enjoy people seeing the ambiguity in me. That's part of, again, using my spouse's openly gendered name at work. I enjoy that, sure, keep people guessing, and I don't know what sets off either factor of it. Things like chastity play. We have a little hook by the light switch in our room because people touch the light switch often, so if the key is hanging there, then that is an open signal for this is the mood I'm in.


01:34:00:20 - 01:34:24:10

Alec

Because if I'm in a very like toppy mood and I just want to take her and throw around in 5 or 6 ways to Sunday and say vile things to her about what a worthless piece of cunt meat she is. Just for me to fucking come in then. I don't want that to be the day that after dinner she comes and says, hey, put this on because I might fuck you later, or I might make you wait because my mood isn't there.


01:34:24:15 - 01:34:31:12

Alec

Yeah. So it makes the mood available and kind of publishes it without me having to go, hey, I'm really feeling like this or that.


01:34:31:14 - 01:34:36:08

Luna

I love that. What are your hopes for your sex life going forward?


01:34:36:10 - 01:34:53:18

Alec

It's a shallow first hope. My first hope is to re accelerate it now that our children aren't very, very young because the younger they are, the more direct attention you have to keep. So as the first child aged up, we, you know, we're able to do more and whatever else. And then just to kind of stay the path.


01:34:53:22 - 01:35:13:03

Alec

I feel like we have a very good path. And I look at it and I go, wow, look at where we were back in 2005. Look at where we were in 2010. Look at this. In this and the different chapters of our lives. And then I go, we're writing a pretty damn good book. Like if we just keep on keeping on, it's going to end up in a good place.


01:35:13:03 - 01:35:21:21

Alec

There's no oh, great. I hope by chapter 20 we live in another country and do this. There's a, you know, just follow the path. Wow.


01:35:21:23 - 01:35:28:15

Luna

If you could go back in time and give younger you a piece of sex advice, what age or ages would you pick and what would you say?


01:35:28:17 - 01:35:54:01

Alec

I like to think that I'd go to my middle teens so 1415 and say to own my desires, not necessarily to express them to whomever I'm dating, but to at least own them to myself, not to try to repress something because of thinking it could never happen or anything else like that.


01:35:54:03 - 01:36:00:16

Luna

Alec Bond, thank you so much for being a guest on Sex Toys. Do you have a sex question you'd like to ask me?


01:36:00:18 - 01:36:27:19

Alec

If you could control a human form, say we magically can modify our bodies in any way possible reversibly, you know? Hey, surgery for you. You just pop this off, put that on Mr. Potato Head style. What would you create first? And I mean, if you could just pop off an arm and now it's a penis, or you no longer have an anus and a penis, you just have two vaginas, because, hell, why not two vaginas?


01:36:27:21 - 01:36:30:18

Alec

Oh, I'm curious just where that would go for you.

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