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38 bisexual monogam-ish cis female, she/her pronouns, in a 5 year hetero relationship, creator of Aurore, a digital space for hot confessional stories.

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00:00:00:00 - 00:00:22:23

Luna

And our guest today is a 38 year old bisexual, monogamous, this woman who was raised by a Catholic mother and is in her fifth year of a relationship with a nice man. She is really into sex, including leaving and receiving marks with trusted partners, bruises, hickeys and build up. Especially the days, weeks or any amount of time before she has sex with someone, especially a new someone.

00:00:23:00 - 00:00:40:17

Luna

She also loves intense teasing, edging and like me, journaling about intimate encounters and fantasies and encouraging others to share their stories too. The creator of Aurora, a digital space for confessional written erotica. She splits her time between L.A. and Brooklyn. Welcome, Kali.

00:00:40:19 - 00:00:43:10

Carly

Hi. So happy to be here with you.

00:00:43:12 - 00:00:57:00

Luna

I am so happy to have you here with us. Could you please start off by telling us if you had to rate yourself today on a sexual shame, a meter with ten being the most full of shame and one being like, what shame? Where do you fall today? Right now?

00:00:57:02 - 00:01:01:10

Carly

I think I'm around a three. Yeah.

00:01:01:12 - 00:01:06:16

Luna

Why? And then are there any contexts, people or places where it gets squiggly up or down?

00:01:06:18 - 00:01:35:02

Carly

Yeah. You know, I mean, you mentioned Catholic mother immediately. I was raised with a lot of shame and guilt around sex. But when I started doing the work that I do with Aurora, I realized that compared to a lot of people, my shame is quite low. And maybe it's not that I don't experience shame, but I'm able to have that conversation with myself and remove it from the equation.

00:01:35:06 - 00:02:01:17

Carly

So it's always there. But I can, you know, close the door on it or push it out the window. And it's certainly never shows up in the way that I interact with others. I do not ever judge. And I think that's also what's allowed me to do this kind of work. People have always come to me to kind of share their sex stories, sex issues or their shame.

00:02:01:17 - 00:02:24:07

Carly

And I think look to me as a person who they knew would not judge them, would make them feel better about it, would be able to laugh it off or tell them something worse. I had done. So the shame is there, but I I've made friends with it in a sense that I can tell it to fuck off when necessary.

00:02:24:09 - 00:02:47:18

Luna

Yeah, it almost sounds like your awareness of the shame as it comes up is really maybe good in real time, and that you're perhaps a hyper processor of it, you know, because it's like, is it like voices in your head that are like shame voice and then you're like, be nice to my voice, or kind of like, what is the experience in like, how did you create that inside of you?

00:02:47:20 - 00:03:28:05

Carly

Yeah. You know, I think that I was sexually shamed or slut shamed from such a young age because. Cause I have gorgeous, beautiful boobs that developed quite early. I experienced being a sex object and being called a slut because of the way my body looked before I had even kissed a boy, right? So very young age. And I think that my relationship to that shame, that experience, I started to absorb it and own it and be the slut that others thought I was.

00:03:28:05 - 00:03:30:13

Carly

You know, I, I think about this.

00:03:30:15 - 00:03:32:08

Luna

I, I think about it a lot.

00:03:32:08 - 00:03:55:03

Carly

Like, did I become this because I had to because it was put on me, you know, like if my body didn't look the way it did at such a young age, would I have gone into a different field, you know, would my whole life be different? Would I be less interested in sex? I debate that also because I was very early interested in sex.

00:03:55:09 - 00:04:19:06

Carly

That was something that fascinated me from a young, young age. But yeah, I think that I had to make friends with the shame. And it's not necessarily a voice of, you know, good and evil. But I feel guilt for everything all the time. Not working hard enough, sleeping too late. And I just remind myself that I need to rest.

00:04:19:06 - 00:04:30:07

Carly

I need to listen to my body. I deserve to rest, I deserve pleasure, and yeah, it's just a conversation, I guess.

00:04:30:09 - 00:04:51:18

Luna

Beautiful. On the note of that conversation, you almost kind of preempted this question, but I would like to hear maybe an additional layer or maybe some more adult reflections as you think about your relationships and your personal pleasure throughout your life. How do you notice societal norms have affected them, either for the good or the difficult?

00:04:51:20 - 00:05:20:22

Carly

Definitely for the difficult, I think. Yeah, I think that sex, the way I was raised in the time I was raised, the place I guess two probably played a part into it. But yeah, there was a lot of shame around sex. It was considered to be very bad to have sex too early. It was considered just tacky or taboo or cheap to own your sexuality or enjoy your body.

00:05:21:00 - 00:05:48:15

Carly

I think that was all so much behind closed doors, you know, and not even just in my house, but everywhere, I think. And I mean, even thinking about when I first got my period, I had a lot of shame around that because I thought I was the only one. And I think that it's so important for there to be open dialogs between friends, between, you know, in sex ed, things like that.

00:05:48:15 - 00:06:17:14

Carly

Because if I had talked to people about it, I would have realized that a lot of other people at that time also had their periods and were also feeling shame around it. And that's so much the basis of the work that I do now, is kind of being able to name your shame and and name the ways that society has, has deterred you from embracing your body and pleasure and realizing that so many other people suffer from the same issues.

00:06:17:14 - 00:06:28:04

Carly

I think that itself is incredibly freeing. And I think just that open conversation and being able to name a thing and feel connected.

00:06:28:08 - 00:06:47:21

Luna

Day, you know, it's so funny because I too had an early experience in high school where the popular girl who I kind of looking back, I'm like, oh shit, I had a crush on her, walked up and called me a whore. Like, with her to like, grown girls. And I'm like, I had just kissed one boy at the time and like, was trying so hard but was getting rejected.

00:06:47:21 - 00:07:05:06

Luna

And, you know, so I have the same kind of like reflection on like, what would it have been like, you know, and also with shame. And I would be curious to know, like your experiences about this. Like I have so many examples where I'm like, oh my God, we're all the same with the shame part. Oh my God, people have so many other different shame parts that I didn't even consider.

00:07:05:11 - 00:07:15:14

Luna

That's why maybe I accidentally explored people a lot, you know? Do you find the connection both in the like sameness of the stories, but also like the differentness of experience?

00:07:15:16 - 00:07:39:09

Carly

Yeah, I do find that really interesting, how it manifests in each person. And I think, as you were saying, that I thought of, you know, your original question was like how societal norms have either prevented or encouraged pleasure for me. And I thought about in high school how by that time I was used to being called a slut, even though I was not.

00:07:39:11 - 00:08:11:21

Carly

I'm like, oh, what if? Yeah, what if being a slut, though was like the coolest thing to be? And I was so horny, like I wanted sex before I had it. I wanted to rub up on anyone and everything. And like, I did feel shame about that. And I did feel that there were a lot of moments where I was hooking up with somebody, and I stopped them because I was ashamed of my body or ashamed of maybe I didn't smell good, because I think that these were a lot of things.

00:08:11:21 - 00:08:41:09

Carly

As you were developing or at that age that were really like scary, like if you don't taste good or if you don't smell good. And Peaches and Cream was like a really popular song at the time. And so it was like, I also, luckily, I think grew up high school time. For me, it was encouraged for women to get oral pleasure, which I think is amazing, but I think I had a lot of like fear and shame around letting people do that to me.

00:08:41:11 - 00:08:49:20

Carly

And if I hadn't, wow, I would have probably had a lot more oral sex.

00:08:49:22 - 00:09:12:22

Luna

Well, I think that's such a good point, because I think one of the things that I personally have found so difficult about connecting with people about sex and learning about sex is there's a lot of shoulds out there. Right? So I hear so often you should communicate. You should communicate with your partner. And I have been spending my entire adult life figuring out how to communicate about sex with these different things.

00:09:12:22 - 00:09:42:13

Luna

So it's like you should receive oral pleasure. Well, what are all the pieces for me? My own personal self, with my relationship with my body, with this particular partner and their personal shame baggage? Like what are the actual frameworks that are going to be concrete helpful for me to do that should. Right? Otherwise, I'm just like wallowing. You know, my my first decade of having sex, there was a lot of wallowing in confusion and the added layer of meta shame because I wasn't doing the should, you know.

00:09:42:13 - 00:09:54:01

Luna

So I would love to hear in your current adult life, what do you need in order to feel excited to connect with someone sexually?

00:09:54:03 - 00:10:18:18

Carly

Well, I was just thinking about on Aurora's Instagram every week we do a kind of Q&A poll with our community based on something in this story and last week's story had like very heavy praise, kink. And the question that I asked our community was like, what do you want to hear during sex? Like what would make you feel good during sex?

00:10:18:20 - 00:10:49:22

Carly

And as I was getting all these answers, I was like, yeah, I want to hear that and I want to hear that. And I think that had there been, you know, had I had the vocabulary to ask for stuff like that at a younger age or in my relationships prior to when I was able to ask for that, that would have helped so much in getting me to a space where I was able to receive pleasure and feel and remove that shame around my body.

00:10:49:22 - 00:11:16:00

Carly

And I think I didn't learn that other than when somebody I was with started to say these kind of things to me. And I think that's why you can talk all you want about intimacy and sex, but like, if you're not actually doing it, it's really hard to learn. And people have so much to teach each other. Sometimes we learn we don't want something or that this person isn't a good fit for us.

00:11:16:00 - 00:11:52:15

Carly

But oftentimes we learn, okay, like this is one way to do this or ask for this or talk about this. And I think that's a really beautiful thing. So I definitely need to feel safe with somebody. I think that when I have more casual sex, I'm much more guarded. I am much more attached to that shame. But when I am in a more intimate relationship and I feel safe, I can be so much freakier, so much kinkier so much more fun.

00:11:52:17 - 00:12:12:19

Carly

I think if I feel safe to not have to think so hard about how I look, how the other person feels. Not that I don't think about them anymore, but like I have a level of understanding of what they want, what they enjoy, and that they're into it. They're here for a reason. It's not just like we happened to come together.

00:12:12:21 - 00:12:48:13

Carly

So the monogamous thing is interesting because I am working on that. I think I have always been more open, but the people that I tend to choose are people that give me this deep security and safe place. Well, the men that tend to be those like deeply secure, safe, tight also tend to be a little bit less open to explore, at least in my experience.

00:12:48:15 - 00:13:19:15

Carly

And so I think I'm on a road to monogamy, but I think that it's going to be a long one for this relationship, because it is very uncomfortable for my partner to think about. So I'm working on figuring out how to talk about what I want in a way that makes him feel safe and not threatened. And it's, you know, I think there's a lot of like, coaches out there and people that do the shoulds, as you mentioned.

00:13:19:15 - 00:13:35:15

Carly

And there is no one way to talk about these types of things. It all really depends on the person that you're with. And so I'm still trying to figure out exactly what that looks like. But yeah, yeah, I am monogamous in my heart.

00:13:35:17 - 00:13:56:07

Luna

Okay. Monogamous. On the road toward possibly more openness at some point, you know, and it's it's a tricky conversation, right? I talk to people about poly stuff a lot. I'm a person that like, in kindergarten, I made up a game called mistletoe Time where I would literally chase boys and hold a green. I had like a little green plastic volleyball and I wouldn't, like, actually kiss them.

00:13:56:07 - 00:14:10:05

Luna

Or maybe I'd kiss them on the cheek like I didn't. I didn't have my first kiss. I was 15, but they were my three future husbands. I am not, I never married any of them. I don't know where they are, but, Zach, Mark and Jordan, I don't know, I don't remember, but now.

00:14:10:05 - 00:14:11:07

Carly

Those names.

00:14:11:09 - 00:14:39:02

Luna

You know, they were very like classic. Well, and it saved by the Bell. It was a Catholic kindergarten that I went to because it was the only, like, school that would have me in school all day. And both my parents worked. I've always been a more open hearted person, but have similarly struggled with those pieces of, you know, kind of finding the balance and security of the openness and not going back to what you said about casual partners and that feeling of safety with trusted partners.

00:14:39:04 - 00:14:53:06

Luna

In your personal experience, can you, like, start in a casual connection and turn it into trust, or are you like on a path toward relationship or like, no, that's casual. So staying casual, how does it work for you?

00:14:53:08 - 00:15:08:11

Carly

You know, I think it's gone both ways, actually. When I think about my current partner, I think I felt that it was casual in the beginning, but he was very persistent and kind of ignored.

00:15:08:11 - 00:15:09:13

Luna

Those.

00:15:09:15 - 00:15:34:10

Carly

Leanings that I had. But also, I think it was a way I was protecting myself by keeping something casual. The time that I met him, I had the previous three years probably had like three really intense breakups with people that I did have really close, intimate relationships with. And I think by the time I met him, I was like, you know what?

00:15:34:12 - 00:16:00:00

Carly

That didn't work. So I'm not going to get into another serious relationship. And for the first like a year that we were dating and I wasn't seeing anyone else, but I like, was like, I don't want to be your girlfriend. Like, I don't know what that means, but I don't want it. And he, as I mentioned, coming from a kind of more conservative background and like place.

00:16:00:05 - 00:16:20:11

Carly

So he would go home and his like family would ask like, oh, are you seeing anyone? And he'd be like, yes, but she's not my girlfriend. And they would be like, well, what does that mean? And, and I think he really struggled to like, explain like, well, we're seeing each other like, well, you know, we're dating but we're not like together.

00:16:20:11 - 00:16:48:23

Carly

Together. And finally he like said, you know, I need to know that this is going somewhere. And it was like obviously going somewhere. But like he needed the title and I think I had wanted that in the past too. But he was the first relationship that the first person I've had that I could imagine myself being open with because I feel so safe and so protected.

00:16:48:23 - 00:17:11:02

Carly

And I think that that is the number one thing needed in any open relationship is feeling first and foremost, safe and loved with your primary partner. Because in the past they think I was like two jealous and insecure to consider that to be an option. And so that's a beautiful thing because I do think I am open in my heart.

00:17:11:02 - 00:17:17:19

Carly

But I had never really gotten to a place where I felt like I could be in practice.

00:17:17:21 - 00:17:36:00

Luna

What are the concrete behaviors that make you feel safe? Because I would say most people, when they tell me their sex stories, the sexiest ones, whether they are open or monogamous, have a strong element of safety and trust. And I like to hear kind of like what that looks like for different people.

00:17:36:02 - 00:18:09:00

Carly

Absolutely. I think that for me I have a anxious avoidant attachment style and probably leaning more anxious, and for me to feel safe in a relationship and therefore in sex, I need like even in times of conflict for that person to to remind me that they are not going to abandon me. And that is, something that manifested naturally in this relationship, like one of our first big fights.

00:18:09:02 - 00:18:32:12

Carly

I left the room and closed the door because I was, like, very upset. And he stuck his head in and he was like, I am mad at you right now, but I still love you. And that was like game changing for me. So the reassurance that you can mess up and we can be mad at each other and we can have conflict and recover and I still love you.

00:18:32:12 - 00:18:56:01

Carly

That doesn't change just because we're in conflict. And I think that goes for like having a more open sex life, too. It's like because there inevitably are problems that arise in in being open, but knowing that the love is there regardless of the issues you're experiencing and that you can return to that person. I think that that's the safety for me.

00:18:56:03 - 00:19:14:08

Luna

That's beautiful. I think that is so important, and I'm so glad that you shared it so clearly. For me, one of the phrases that I have used when I'm in conflict, whether it's with a partner or a dear friend, I'm like, I'm upset right now, but we're on the same team. We're just not on the same page right now.

00:19:14:08 - 00:19:32:03

Luna

I'd like to get on the same page, you know, regardless of what that looks like. If it takes time, like, let me know what you need. And typically that has helped me realize when a relationship isn't going to continue, because if it's just about fighting, when I'm like, let's be my teammate. Like, let's figure it out and there's no collaboration there.

00:19:32:03 - 00:19:49:07

Luna

That's kind of that's kind of it. Where can you go from there? Going back to what you said about casual relationships and feeling more guarded, how does that manifest for you? Is it emotional or their physical behaviors? Is it like eye contact during sex? What does it feel like to be guarded with a casual partner?

00:19:49:09 - 00:20:15:19

Carly

You know, that's actually funny. You mentioned eye contact because I wasn't aware that this was something that I struggled with. And I think that there was also, in these instances, definitely drugs and alcohol involved, which don't help focus, you know. Yeah. But I did have two separate lovers like, say, demand that I like, look them in the eyes while they were fucking me.

00:20:15:19 - 00:20:34:11

Carly

And I think that it's less of like, I don't know if that's so much like a protective thing or more like I'm in bliss and I'm in the moment. And I think maybe I do avoid that eye contact that is more natural with somebody I'm close with because I can with my current partner. Like, we laugh a lot in sex.

00:20:34:11 - 00:21:11:06

Carly

Like it's because it's silly and like things happen and whatever. It's like he, moving on and the eye contact isn't necessarily heavy, but it's there. You check in and you just, you know, in the laughter you check in to. I think with people where I'm having more casual sex, it's more about being a little reluctant, like less game first stuff like, I am not going to necessarily want to experiment with anal penetration with somebody.

00:21:11:06 - 00:21:37:07

Carly

I don't trust because I don't totally know their approach. And also like that can get messy. So you want to be with somebody that you're like, okay, like we're in this and they're going to be cool about whatever happens. I think that, yeah, being vulnerable sexually, like physically is more difficult for me in a casual situation, but also absolutely emotionally.

00:21:37:07 - 00:22:10:02

Carly

And I think there definitely have been people that I've been casual with that I have wanted it to be more, and I tend to be like the type to cut off when that happens, because I am incapable. Once those feelings arise, I can't really be casual with that person anymore. And well, you did mention in the beginning and the intro talking about like the weeks or days or hours of like wanting but not having.

00:22:10:04 - 00:22:37:12

Carly

I think that my ability to deny prospective lovers if like I feel I need to cut them off has actually manifested this really fun game of cat and mouse and desire. But knowing I can't, you know, not wanting to let myself and I do, I do really enjoy that game and denial and thinking about it and wanting it.

00:22:37:18 - 00:23:02:03

Luna

I love this entire window into intimacy. Right. It's something I've been thinking about. Increasingly, I don't have as much casual sex. Well, that's not really depends on how you language it, right? Like, I don't ever just like go out and strangers suck. It's not interesting to me. I get so many internet people that assume that because they know that I'm kinky, because they listen to my podcast, that they are suddenly going to be my online dominant.

00:23:02:03 - 00:23:26:19

Luna

And like, then they're going to come fly out and visit me. I'm like, no, that's not you know, I have to have a really good reason to fuck someone. And, you know, I mean, for me, that can look like 30 minutes of really connected conversation and clear communication about overlapping desires and what I'm hearing, you know, in your share, is that, like, I mean, I'm having some personal insights because, like, I'm a I'm a contact person.

00:23:26:19 - 00:23:42:18

Luna

And so I've had to learn, you know, I've had people be like that was intense or like, that's intense eye contact and learning that there are different like levels of intimacy that are allowable. And I just love that you are so in tune with yourself that you're like, actually, I want more intimacy than the container we've built together.

00:23:42:20 - 00:23:52:23

Luna

And then you back off. Is that something that has led to like increased closeness, or is that usually the end of a relationship, or does it sounds like there's some edging in there, at least sometimes. Yeah.

00:23:53:00 - 00:24:19:11

Carly

It leads to I mean, I'm thinking about there and this has been a while for me, right? A few years and this is all like pre-pandemic because I don't think would be our world now allows for like that same casualness. Yeah. I think there were like recurring characters in my life who would show up, you know, at a friend's place almost every weekend or every weekend.

00:24:19:11 - 00:24:49:00

Carly

And if I had some kind of intimate relationship with them prior, and we had gotten to that point where I knew that they weren't able to give me more, they would continue to show up and try to go home with me, but I would have, like drawn that line for myself without necessarily explaining in detail to them, without making myself vulnerable by saying, you know, you can't give me more.

00:24:49:00 - 00:25:18:00

Carly

So I'm no longer going to engage in sex with you and it might sound a little fucked up, but I don't think so. I think that I drew the line and they knew that I wanted more, and they they knew they weren't interested or couldn't give it to me, but they still wanted to fuck. And so that feeling for me of being desired, but having drawn that line, was really empowering and and really like a turn on for me.

00:25:18:00 - 00:25:40:07

Carly

And there was someone, there's only one person that I ever broke the rule with, and this was someone that was like very toxic, bad person. I mean, not bad, but like bad to me, really. And I did tell him very straightforward. Like how much he had hurt me and like how shitty he was treating me, but I somehow could not say no.

00:25:40:07 - 00:26:05:03

Carly

And I would like delete all contacts, you know, block him on everything. And he would still find a way to get in touch with me. And I would go over intending on doing this edging and like drawing the line. But inevitably with him I could never keep it. I he always broke down that barrier, but otherwise, other than that one, I think that line drawing and keeping has been really empowering.

00:26:05:03 - 00:26:23:20

Carly

And I remember like a couple of years ago, I saw one of these people at a Christmas party and like, there's just an electricity, you know, there's a tension that you feel with people that you've been intimate with. You don't hate them like there's still love there. There's interest. And I felt that and I knew it was like going to be the same thing.

00:26:23:20 - 00:26:37:20

Carly

I knew he was going to follow up texts me, etc., but I laughed and I drew that line. And yeah, it's a great thing. I encourage everyone to practice. It was fuck Boys especially.

00:26:37:22 - 00:27:01:12

Luna

Yeah, I mean, that's such a good point. And I think I just want to highlight the beauty in knowing yourself, knowing your needs, sticking to it and allowing yourself room to be human. Right. I like I call those people boomerangs and like they always come back, you know, like boy boys especially seem to be boomerangs and like, yeah, I can so relate to people where it's like there is an animal body chemistry that it is.

00:27:01:12 - 00:27:07:16

Luna

It isn't toxic. What would you say are the most satisfying parts about sex for you.

00:27:07:18 - 00:27:48:00

Carly

While kind of going off of this edging and like denial for myself, I have recently not so recently, but in the last couple of years. And I think this has something to do with being in a more monogamous relationship. I think that the most satisfying part of sex is what comes before sex. I think that that up, that wanting and not giving into is actually more satisfying and more interesting to me than actual sex.

00:27:48:00 - 00:28:16:08

Carly

And so, of course, like we can work that in the sex with edging and denial, but I don't know, like the things that I fantasize about are these lead ups, these like wanting somebody and I used to self impose a no sex on the first date rule for like a lot of my dating life. And it was not for any specific reason, I don't think.

00:28:16:08 - 00:28:47:00

Carly

But looking back, it's like, I think I really just enjoyed that desire or the building up desire and thinking about what it was going to be like and just being so immersed in the horniness of wanting to fuck somebody and not fuck them. And it's not like a letdown when you do finally fuck them. But you can. I don't know if you can get back to that place of the desire before you have sex with someone, unless you're like a long distance relationship.

00:28:47:00 - 00:29:15:16

Luna

I would say it takes creative, purposeful architect of a relationship and to incredibly conscious humans. And also just to throw in some neuroscience like 90% of our I'm giving okay, this is stated clearly in the book Atomic Habits by James Clear when he talks about how in our nucleus accumbens, like 90% of it is built for the dopamine system, the seeking, the motivation, the curiosity, the desire, the thing that gets us learning, the thing that gets us seeking only 10% is liking.

00:29:15:16 - 00:29:32:04

Luna

So that's why so often people are like this desire, my desire, my desire. And then the desire gets met and they're like, disappointed because it's like, yeah, well, it's only going to be like a 10th of how exciting it is to pursue. And so that's why I always want to encourage kind of books. Right. Because it's an evolution.

00:29:32:04 - 00:29:44:11

Luna

What about for you? Journaling. Because for me, journaling after the fact about something and like capturing the leader, but then the details of the experience almost extended for me in the aftermath. What is it like for you?

00:29:44:13 - 00:30:06:16

Carly

Absolutely. I think you get to relive it. And I think, going back to that one person that I mentioned that I would keep giving into even when I tried not to, so many of my journals in my more adult life were about him and about that desire, because it was so often taken from me or unavailable to me.

00:30:06:16 - 00:30:51:13

Carly

So even when I would give in, I would still have that, unrequited feeling and journaling from that place is, I think. Yeah, it was like ripe erotica. I used excerpts from my journals directly in the story that I wrote about him, and there's just so much, I mean, it's torture is it's like torture porn, basically, because I can read that and feel again, like how horny I was, like, delirious and like, thinking of the moment that we spent the touch of his body and skin on mine, like, just would make my whole like, I felt like I was on drugs thinking about it.

00:30:51:13 - 00:31:17:21

Carly

And that's like a outrageous experience for sure. And so journaling absolutely extended it. But I do think it again, goes back to the like, unavailability and like the the wanting what you can't have. And I do like I hate that that is such a fact. And as you just give the neuroscience explanation for it, it is. And I think that that's something that you can either make work for you or it's going to work against you.

00:31:17:21 - 00:31:35:13

Carly

And so like withholding doesn't have to be about being chased or having shame around having sex, but I think that it builds that, that reward up. And then it is a better reward than getting it right away. Yes.

00:31:35:13 - 00:31:52:19

Luna

Also, as a person who will, I'm a person that is so full of desire that I'll go straight toward the goal and I'll get it, and I'll love it, and I do. I love it, and then I'm like, again, again, again, again, you know? And I have learned that that is not a way to make my partner value me.

00:31:52:21 - 00:32:13:13

Luna

And so I have learned that as much as I don't want this to be true, whether it's a photography client or a listener who wants to engage with me like I actually need to withhold in order to feel valued, is the sad truth that I'm, like, stumbling upon after all these years of wanting it to be different, you know?

00:32:13:13 - 00:32:38:17

Luna

And so I will I definitely, definitely am practicing more of like, self-restraint to sort of like, make sure that I'm filtering to gain the highest quality of people in my life where there will be mutual support. Right? Because I have so much to give, I'm like, oh, I want someone who has the same right. And like you said, we can kind of like create that tension together.

00:32:38:19 - 00:32:59:18

Luna

I would love to hear what is your definition of real erotica? We kind of talked about that and like, why are confessions sexy like secrets specifically? Or do you even see your erotica as secret? I mean, they're confessions, but like, you're here with me as a person. We know you're Kali, but like, maybe most of the people here from Art.

00:32:59:20 - 00:33:01:20

Luna

Tell us a little bit about that for you.

00:33:01:22 - 00:33:27:04

Carly

I would say most people who write for the site do use a pen name, and I wanted that to be available because I don't think that in the world we live in, that you want your name attached necessarily to something sexual online. That will certainly follow you. And we do have some writers that are like lawyers or in like very professional positions that they could not be out about this.

00:33:27:06 - 00:33:47:21

Luna

I boggles my mind so much. Sorry to interrupt, but I'm just like, but if we all banded together and said, yes, sex is a part of life and I know we're not there yet, but I'm like, how will we be the change? We want to see if everyone wants to hide. And, you know, I wonder if it's the same thing I do of like, I'm here being myself, but then I'm like a secret keeper for all these other secret relationships.

00:33:47:21 - 00:33:58:07

Luna

And I'm like, I'm not a secret podcaster on the side for you, you know, like, so that for me is like a tricky part. But I also understand that people don't share as much if it's attached to their self.

00:33:58:09 - 00:34:25:00

Carly

Right? I mean, I think that people like you and me have made a decision that this is going to be our life, you know, like we are going to be in this work and we are part of the fight. I actually had somebody recently asked to talk to me. They were like wanting to start an erotica thing. And, their like main question was, you know, how do you deal with like the shame or like working in this industry and like what others think of you?

00:34:25:00 - 00:34:46:01

Carly

And I was like, if you are worried about that, then you, you know, you have a long way to go in that sense, because you can't really care if people are going to associate you with sex in this industry. It's a it's a fact. And you have to be like, I think, really willing to fight to be in this industry because everything is kind of rigged against us.

00:34:46:06 - 00:34:48:07

Luna

Censorship is real.

00:34:48:09 - 00:35:20:17

Carly

It really is. Wow. And it's like you can have an idea of it going into it, and then you are in it and you're like, oh, I'm fucked. Like, I had no idea it was this bad. But real erotica. I've always enjoyed reading smut, reading romance. But I would get this like X-Factor if something in the plot was anti-feminist, if it was like, annoying trope, if it was archaic gender roles, which a lot of romance and erotica is that.

00:35:20:18 - 00:35:45:23

Carly

And at the same time, like having been writing real erotica myself and my journals, I realized and we were talking about a challenge earlier, I had lost my two clients, I had just got out of a relationship, and I was like, you know what? I'm going to take myself on a trip through Europe, and I'm going to give myself an assignment to interview people about sex.

00:35:45:23 - 00:36:08:00

Carly

And then in each city that I go to, and this was quite a few years ago. So like, Tinder was still like a nice, happy place where you could just, like, meet people and have real connections. And I would go, like, I landed in London. I traveled all throughout Europe and in each city. I met up with people, and when I got there, I'd be like, oh, I'm doing this project.

00:36:08:00 - 00:36:40:01

Carly

Like, I was clear that I was just visiting, but I didn't say, like, I want to interview you on the app. I waited till we got there and vibed and everyone. I was dating all men at this time. Everyone was so open and excited to share and have this conversation and and it was just a really intimate conversation about, you know, kind of the things that we're talking about now, like what dating has been like for them, what what relationships they've had, what they consider to be sexy.

00:36:40:03 - 00:37:10:09

Carly

And at the end of these conversations, inevitably I ended up sleeping with a lot of these people because we had been so open and vulnerable with each other. Yeah. And that project. So I had all these, like, recordings of our interviews, and I wanted to share both the interviews and the experience of actually being intimate together. And I was like, I was like, how do I like, where do I put this?

00:37:10:09 - 00:37:36:06

Carly

What do I do with it? Like, I want to tell these stories. And so that's how I started raw and wanting to to create more of these stories that are true, that are written by women, for women, that are empowering, feminist, all of these things that typical romance and erotica has not been for women. And yet it is the top grossing genre in America.

00:37:36:06 - 00:38:10:13

Carly

Like people love these stories. People love to read porn, but I want to read smart porn. And I also realize, I mean, I was living in New York, like L.A., I'm sure as well. The truth is often spicier than anything you can make up. I mean, we're having some crazy and beautiful sex. I think. So, yeah, that was kind of the genesis of a raw, which is like as you're talking about your plans.

00:38:10:13 - 00:38:11:17

Carly

I mean.

00:38:11:18 - 00:38:13:14

Luna

Do you think it's really similar?

00:38:13:17 - 00:38:13:22

Carly

Yeah.

00:38:13:22 - 00:38:34:14

Luna

I went on a walkabout in South America. So like you did Europe. I was in South America. That's where I was like starting to take naked pictures of myself, and I didn't. I was only journaling for myself at the time, but I was like, fucking as much as possible wherever I once was. Pre podcast two years before I started Sex Stories, and that was where I was like, why is some of this sex good and why is some of it so bad?

00:38:34:14 - 00:38:50:19

Luna

And I like all the people. I don't understand what's happening here, you know. And so I had a much more internal exploit. So you would just like bring your recorder and be like, can I record like, or what would you that would be cool. And also like, oh, so cool.

00:38:50:21 - 00:39:08:13

Carly

Do you know what I think it is at that time at least like it was genuine connections were still maybe more common from meeting people online. Like it was like new, but it wasn't so new.

00:39:08:13 - 00:39:12:21

Luna

I even more like traumatized by online connections as widely as maybe.

00:39:13:02 - 00:39:31:19

Carly

I just know. I think that's 100% it. There is still this trust and like I can go meet this person and they're not going to be shitty or waste my time. I also think had I been dating women, they might not have been as willing to, oh, I'm going to go meet up with this person who's in town for three days.

00:39:31:19 - 00:39:46:19

Carly

Like, that's not as interesting, right? But to a man, I'm like, I'm in town for a few days, let's date. And then men also, I think straight men, especially don't have these outlets to talk about their feelings.

00:39:46:19 - 00:39:47:03

Luna

So it.

00:39:47:05 - 00:39:47:17

Carly

Is.

00:39:47:18 - 00:39:48:14

Luna

So true.

00:39:48:15 - 00:40:26:07

Carly

So somebody's asking them to do so is like, oh wow, you want to you want to have this conversation and listen to me and I'm safe with you and you're not going to judge me. It's like they really. Yeah, they had a lot to share somewhere definitely more guarded than others. You know, some were a little like, heehee, like, sure, I'll participate in your questions or whatever, but like five of the people that I met on this journey, I ended up having like other experiences with later, like we stayed in touch and like saw each other again.

00:40:26:09 - 00:40:53:06

Carly

The beauty of having vulnerable conversations, intimate conversations, like you get so bonded. And I'm thinking about, I went on a bachelorette trip a few weeks ago, and I ended up getting like, a signed, I guess you call it a room with this woman who I barely knew. Like I had been, like, at parties with her. And when we checked in, they were like, oh, we, like, only have a king size bed.

00:40:53:06 - 00:41:19:01

Carly

And it was like, okay, like, so we're going to share a bed and a room like, we barely know each other, but like, whatever. And we ended up having this, like, girl talk sleepover where I told her this really, like, intimate stuff about, like, my parents divorced my childhood, like, things. And I haven't told, like, a lot of friends that are much closer, that I've known a lot longer because she asked.

00:41:19:01 - 00:41:53:04

Carly

And because we were in this, like container literally together in a space, and we we just open to each other's really beautiful thing. Yeah, I like that, you know, and we talk a lot about sex, but like this exists in every kind of relationship. And I love now, you know, my mom is Catholic and she has a lot of guilt and shame around sex, but I love asking her about her early dating life and things that happened between her and my father to better understand who she is as a person.

00:41:53:04 - 00:42:05:04

Carly

I think that we don't all have the opportunity to do that with our parents, but I think that it can be incredibly enlightened when we see our parents as people rather than our parents.

00:42:05:04 - 00:42:32:00

Luna

Totally. Oh my gosh. And just to reflect my own experiences in response to what you just shared, when I think about the amount of permission I now feel after, you know, this is the sixth year of collecting sex stories and talking to people. Prior to that, I felt, I mean, I was criticized or like kind of attacked for being too curious and like, I maybe m2 curious, like that's that is perhaps true.

00:42:32:00 - 00:42:53:01

Luna

If there's such a thing as truth, like I can get infinite and you point me in a direction and I just want to know everything about that one thing. But what it's done is created really connected relationships. Wherever I go, whatever I'm doing. And that's how I ended up here, because as a photographer, you know, I that work kind of like started because I'm just curious about people.

00:42:53:03 - 00:43:20:18

Luna

And now with I'm doing like you know, I'll do sometimes content retreats or I'll be on a weekend where I'm like in an Airbnb with a couple of, like, sex worker friends. And so I'm, like, capturing their hotness. But then at night it's the sleepover vibe. And that is one of the most special times to me. And so I've been, I think, the end of 2024, after after the 52 days of fucking or 52 First dates or however it turns out, I think that will my goal is going to be to create more like weekend long retreats.

00:43:20:19 - 00:43:34:02

Luna

Maybe we do a writing oriented one, you know, that kind of combines that creativity with the vulnerability in a safe space, because I think that's how I've experienced some of my, my largest personal growth, like in a in a safe space of health.

00:43:34:04 - 00:43:48:13

Carly

We're doing that. I just have to say, this retreat 100%. I've been thinking about that as well. Like I want it. I know other people want it too. And I think that we are all craving community so much right now.

00:43:48:16 - 00:44:08:20

Luna

And it's immunity. It's. Yes. Yeah. It's so it's so true and it's so fun. It's so fun to just get together with play friends and like, learn about each other and cook good food. And you know, that's that's my favorite, you know, and that's, that's why it's very hard for me to show up in online spaces where I know I should, as I should with my air quotes.

00:44:08:20 - 00:44:29:05

Luna

I'm not a fan of shoulds, you know, because if you replace it with a could you get real clear on why you aren't? And I'm really clear on the fact that, like, I haven't been showing up on Instagram or OnlyFans or Twitter or all these places because screens make me feel bad and I have so much more fun connecting with clients directly in person and at the same time, I do miss talking to people from all over the world.

00:44:29:05 - 00:44:54:11

Luna

So I'm looking for that balance, and I'm thinking that there could be a fun way to create it in those real life spaces. As you reflect on your sexual evolution as a person, what kind of the standout moments of learning for you like, whether it's sex education, whether it's early experiences or just kind of like growing into adulthood, like what formed you as a sexual being.

00:44:54:13 - 00:45:01:18

Carly

While, having an orgasm against a Jacuzzi. That was a major turning point for me.

00:45:01:18 - 00:45:05:15

Luna

Amazing. Wait, how old were you? Like, where was this in your human timeline?

00:45:05:17 - 00:45:37:21

Carly

Actually, I was around 15 years old and I was with my first boyfriend, and he positioned me against it and it was like, oh my God, this blew my mind. So that was a very special turning point for me. I, you know, talking about emotion and safety. I realize in the first few relationships that I had sexual relationships, I couldn't orgasm until I felt safe, until I felt comfortable to let go.

00:45:37:23 - 00:46:07:20

Carly

And I also had for so many years an issue orgasming through oral sex. I think for the same reason, and as I mentioned earlier, just this shame and like kind of fear and discomfort around somebodys face being like up in my pussy and I had a orgasm through oral sex with someone probably seven years ago, and it was the first time I was intimate with this person.

00:46:07:20 - 00:46:29:03

Carly

And it happened without my, you know, I didn't know it was happening, just happen. And it was wild. Like I was like, oh, I kind of thought something was wrong with me. I was broke and I couldn't do that, and I did. And after that experience, I was able to do it with other people. And so it really just broke free.

00:46:29:03 - 00:46:56:03

Carly

This guardrail I had put up like for years, I mean, decades. I was having sex, oral sex and never being able to come that way. So I think that realizing that even after being sexually active, being slutty for so many years, like there's still things you can learn and discover and like overcome like that is a really beautiful, exciting thing to me.

00:46:56:03 - 00:47:03:15

Carly

So I'm working on, I'm not really, but I'm like, so next I will nipple orgasm. But you. Yeah.

00:47:03:16 - 00:47:04:12

Luna

Like, dude.

00:47:04:12 - 00:47:05:11

Carly

I'm like, there's so many.

00:47:05:11 - 00:47:07:21

Luna

Possibilities, right? Like, yeah, let's.

00:47:07:21 - 00:47:14:07

Carly

Let's do it. Let's try. We have a lifetime ahead of us. We have infinite sexual possibilities.

00:47:14:07 - 00:47:41:11

Luna

Absolutely. And I am a neuroscience nerd. Like, my favorite podcast is the Huberman Lab. I talk about it constantly, but I just can't stop thinking about Doctor Ali Crumb's research about beliefs, about how important it is, like our physiological responses to what our minds decide is, quote unquote, true. And so I really encourage everyone to go look at her milkshake experiment, research that where, like, the ghrelin in our stomach actually responds.

00:47:41:11 - 00:47:59:03

Luna

If people think they're having a high calorie milkshake versus low calorie, there's one about exercise related that she did. And so, you know, it's funny because as you're talking, I'm like, oh, well, I'm not a person that could ever have a nipple orgasm. My nipples aren't sensitive. And I'm like, well, not with that attitude. You know? I'm like, and then my brain is like, what if we had a nipple focused retreat?

00:47:59:03 - 00:48:04:02

Luna

And I'm like, you know, I mean.

00:48:04:04 - 00:48:05:08

Carly

I will go to that.

00:48:05:08 - 00:48:07:13

Luna

I will help facilitate.

00:48:07:15 - 00:48:13:14

Carly

I'm like, I don't know how to do it, but maybe somebody there will like, let's find that nipple orgasm person.

00:48:13:14 - 00:48:29:01

Luna

And it's different for everyone, right? Yeah. And I love just like hearing what people are into in those ways. So in terms of your own story, in your own development, when did you realize that you enjoyed Mark's giving and receiving? And do you do you identify as kinky?

00:48:29:03 - 00:48:56:23

Carly

I don't know, I have kind of an issue with like wanting to put labels on myself of any kind. I struggled a lot with your question of, my sexual orientation, because I have been with men and women and non-binary people, but I, I'm like, am I pan am I like, I don't know, and I don't care really.

00:48:56:23 - 00:49:19:10

Carly

I think, I mean, I guess and because it really is just like about the person, like it's I can't totally decide. But so no, I don't like necessarily identify as kinky, but the Marx thing, I always enjoyed bruises, even if they were just like, I walked into something or I fell or whatever. I like that they are colorful.

00:49:19:12 - 00:49:47:18

Carly

I like that they hurt when you press on them. I like this, like, visual marker of something being off, like, I don't know, like, I'm trying to think, like, hickeys. I was obsessed with, in high school, I think was like my hickey phase. I loved that it signified like, yeah, I made out with someone so heavily and we were, like, sucking each other's bodies enough to leave a mark.

00:49:47:18 - 00:50:13:19

Carly

I also bruise very easily. So it's like not two people together to give me a mark. I would like ask people to bite my inner thighs and they would leave these like insane looking bruises, like purple and like huge. And I really enjoyed that. I also had a friend in college where we would like, punch each other like over and over in the same spot as hard as we could to give each other bruises.

00:50:13:21 - 00:50:18:13

Luna

So it's like actually a real like, was it just from regular where.

00:50:18:15 - 00:50:39:07

Carly

Of relationship mostly like upper arms to kind of like that's again something visible. And yeah, like I have had so many friendships with women that were not overtly sexual but certainly had sexual undertones, like we used to kiss all the time. Oh, yeah. And I, I don't know, friend.

00:50:39:07 - 00:50:47:01

Luna

Ooh, yeah. Keep kissing in nice. And we. That's what you had a kissing punching friendship.

00:50:47:03 - 00:50:53:03

Carly

Yes. That was our two main ways of touching each other. And we also were big cutlers as well.

00:50:53:03 - 00:51:00:13

Luna

I love love, yeah, I like bruises because they make me feel both delicate and strong.

00:51:00:15 - 00:51:30:02

Carly

Yes, I definitely identify with. I feel that, yeah, it's it's like all of this pain is concentrated into this, like, little circles space. And it reminds you of maybe what happened. It reminds you of your ability to be bruised, your vulnerability. Yeah. Bruises are fucking awesome, and I do. I love, like, being marked by my lover. I love, like, their teeth marks on me to show that I am their skin.

00:51:30:02 - 00:51:49:02

Luna

Same same again with the understanding, the caveat. Just because we're having a public conversation that this is with a partner that we've asked for this from, that there's trust. We always want to make sure that if we're giving marks to someone, they want them. Because I have definitely interviewed some people who have been traumatized by marks they didn't agree to.

00:51:49:03 - 00:52:14:12

Carly

So absolutely. And I think that it's something you mentioned, you know, like when you're in this industry or when you're just generally sex positive, people make a lot of assumptions about what you would be okay with. Without consent with them. Yeah. I had a situation where I was, having sex with someone who I was quite close to, and they slapped me across the face without consent.

00:52:14:13 - 00:52:47:15

Carly

And it was incredibly traumatic for me. And I remember talking to a friend. It was a mutual friend. So they were also close with him. And she was like, yeah, but like, you like that, right? And it was just so presumptuous and upsetting that as I was trying to seek, you know, some help or outside support about this, that they would also assume, because I had sex positive, that I would be into being slapped.

00:52:47:15 - 00:52:55:15

Carly

And so, yeah, absolutely. Like you have to ask you have to have to have enthusiastic consent.

00:52:55:17 - 00:52:58:01

Luna

Dear. I'm so.

00:52:58:03 - 00:52:59:11

Carly

Sorry. Yeah.

00:52:59:15 - 00:53:18:22

Luna

No, no, no, I mean, I think that is obviously true. And also, consent is not a single conversation, right? Like, I might want to get slapped in the face by someone one day and not having another. Yeah, I've had partners where I'd have to be like, actually, I have a photoshoot coming up and I don't want to spend hours photoshopping or like I'm going to do this thing.

00:53:18:22 - 00:53:28:17

Luna

So like, I want to be with my family, so please don't leave bruises all over my ass today. You know, if it's ongoing and my body might feel different on a on a given day. So I.

00:53:28:17 - 00:53:35:16

Carly

Think really, I think especially with the cycle like the yeah kind of touch you want to experience varies so much like when to eat.

00:53:35:16 - 00:53:59:11

Luna

Different all the time and I think that's why I struggle with, you know, some of the mainstream narratives I've encountered are from people who are like, why don't you even know what you want? And I'm like, well, because I'm interesting and because every single day something is different. And because, like, it's great if you're like, I'm a three point checklist and boom, I'm done.

00:53:59:11 - 00:54:20:01

Luna

Like, that's good for you if that's satisfying. For me, everything is about the exploration of the present moment and the connection with that individual who I am being energetically present with and selecting individuals who want to be energetically present with me in compatible ways are fun, you know? And and for me, that does look like talking and connection.

00:54:20:01 - 00:54:32:17

Luna

And I don't want to like, dig into a dramatic moment. But when that happened, were you able to say anything to that partner in real time, or did you just freeze or like what? What was the actual connection there? Like, for you.

00:54:32:19 - 00:54:41:18

Carly

I am a freeze. That is my unfortunately I like I'm like, why should I be a fucking fighter? But no, my.

00:54:41:20 - 00:54:48:02

Luna

I don't know, it's it's just different sets of problems. I mean, it's a different set of problems. I would love to fight though.

00:54:48:02 - 00:55:23:20

Carly

Like, I'm a great fighter, but that's not where I go in those moments. And it actually happened a couple of times in this sexual experience. And then I started to cry. And then they noticed. And then I, communicated that that was not okay. And of course, you know, they were very apologetic, but it did set into motion a very it was just a difficult, ongoing conversation, I think, because that really ruptured my feeling of trust and safety with them.

00:55:23:23 - 00:55:52:13

Carly

And they weren't really able to be patient with me for that to be regained. Like they felt like, okay, I apologize, like, no big deal. But I really needed like time and trust rebuilt and it, you know, it makes me think of with Aurora stories like I ask that they're all about positive experiences or that if they're not, you know, you can rewrite it to be a positive experience or one where you triumph.

00:55:52:15 - 00:56:34:02

Carly

And it's not because I don't know that there are so many bad sex stories and worse than bad sex stories, right? I have been in a lot of traumatic sexual events, but I want to share and champion the positive stories and educate using the positive stories. Yes, because I think creating these sexual scripts for people by sharing our real experiences, what we enjoyed, especially as women, is like incredibly instructive for people who want to hook up with women.

00:56:34:04 - 00:56:43:01

Carly

But yeah, I've had my share of bad sex and sexual assault. And yeah, I think we all have.

00:56:43:03 - 00:57:05:16

Luna

Absolutely. And to your point, I think the framing around sharing those difficult experiences and why are we sharing them is incredibly important. You know, I, I went to film school and the amount of material that had to do with like traumatic rape oriented things, that was like not even a personal story, but because they were looking for like dramatic highs, so problematic.

00:57:05:16 - 00:57:22:12

Luna

And so that's why for sex stories, for anyone who has applied or been on, you know, that I ask a question of like, okay, if you've experienced sexual trauma, has it been processed with a professional therapist, like in a private space, you know, and if you're going to share about it, can you share what helped you heal or find kind of some balance?

00:57:22:14 - 00:57:33:06

Luna

You know, so in that instance in particular, was it just a learning lesson for you? Were you able to find support in some way, shape or form from a trusted person to kind of like process it?

00:57:33:07 - 00:57:54:15

Carly

Yes. I continued to see him, although I would not be intimate with him and he actually we were at a weekend away with friends of mine, a lesbian couple, and he got frustrated with me because I wouldn't have sex with him and let's the next morning and I didn't go with him. And I told them like what was going on between us.

00:57:54:20 - 00:58:22:07

Carly

And their reaction was so immediately supportive and like, rushed. I just felt this like strength and support around me of these women being like, of course, that's not okay, and that's terrible. And are you all right? And what can we do to help you? And no, I don't think you should see him. And you.

00:58:22:07 - 00:58:22:23

Luna

Know.

00:58:23:01 - 00:58:41:22

Carly

But it was remarkable how difficult it was to get somebody to kind of take me seriously in what I was going through, experiencing, because I am known to a lot of my friends as someone who is very open sexually and down for whatever.

00:58:42:00 - 00:59:01:06

Luna

Well, there's a big difference between being actually sex positive and, you know, wanting to get, consensually abused like that. Those are two completely different things, you know? And I'm so glad to hear that you had that. You found people who were able to validate your experience. You know, I think that's a lot of what people get out of sharing stories together.

00:59:01:06 - 00:59:28:11

Luna

Is that kind of like human validation, like you said at the beginning, like we do have similarities and shame, even at the specifics are different. Or if they are the same, we can process our different kind of like responses to it and see that like, oh yeah, actually that's okay. And that's why it's so tricky when we when we are silent, when we do not share, I think that's, that's where stuff gets or rather, in my experience, in listening to people's stories, that seems to be where it gets the most tricky and sticky.

00:59:28:13 - 00:59:38:02

Luna

Shifting gears a little bit, though, I would love to hear when it comes to sex, what do you think you are the best at and how did you get to be so good?

00:59:38:04 - 01:00:15:06

Carly

Yeah, I think I am a very enthusiastic lover and I think writing deck on top, it's how it's a how I come, it's how I can make myself come easier. Ooh. And I have my tips to work with. It's a very empowering position for me, and I was surprised to hear again, this is like the shame thing, that a lot of women feel vulnerable in that position or too much on display.

01:00:15:07 - 01:00:16:04

Carly

I have never felt.

01:00:16:04 - 01:00:16:13

Luna

That way.

01:00:16:13 - 01:00:25:18

Carly

Because that position to me equals the most pleasure and orgasm. And so it's just been always my go to.

01:00:25:20 - 01:00:30:00

Luna

Facing or reverse cowgirl. Does that make a difference for you facing.

01:00:30:00 - 01:00:37:13

Carly

Definitely. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's more to work with. I think with their, like, pubic bone, for.

01:00:37:13 - 01:00:38:19

Luna

Me to.

01:00:38:21 - 01:00:41:18

Carly

Yeah, that friction is very I can wrap my legs.

01:00:41:18 - 01:00:45:03

Luna

I have long legs so I can wrap it around and, like, really thrust a lot.

01:00:45:05 - 01:00:46:00

Carly

Yeah.

01:00:46:01 - 01:00:48:02

Luna

Yeah.

01:00:48:04 - 01:01:15:23

Carly

Yeah, I think that I'm. I'm pretty good at that. And I have asked people in the past like, am I a good lover? Am I good in bed? And the answer that I've gotten more than once is like, yes. And why? Because you are vocal and excited. Enthusiastic, like you seem like you're having a good time. And I think that ultimately, like, everyone just wants the other person that they're fucking to seem like they're enjoying it, and I do.

01:01:16:01 - 01:01:16:05

Luna

Yeah.

01:01:16:06 - 01:01:18:21

Carly

Joyce. Excellent. So yeah.

01:01:18:23 - 01:01:27:15

Luna

Thank I also I love like you ride and you write to Dick. Like writing dick and writing dick.

01:01:27:17 - 01:01:29:01

Carly

I love that.

01:01:29:03 - 01:01:38:10

Luna

Like you love it. Okay. So what else is on your personal and or erotic creative bucket list?

01:01:38:12 - 01:02:11:04

Carly

Well, I think that big time opening up my relationship and figuring out the path to having a more varied erotic life and future long life ahead of us, right? That's definitely bucket list. I would like to watch my partner with another woman, and I know that that's something that will be, you know, a little chaotic for me, but it's something that I feel I would really deeply enjoy.

01:02:11:06 - 01:02:33:16

Carly

I am a bit of a voyeur. I think when I was younger I was more on the exhibitionist side. And I think as I've gotten older, I'm more I enjoy observing a long career or like work wise, I would love to script, write and potentially direct visual pornography. Oh.

01:02:33:18 - 01:02:41:04

Luna

That can happen. I mean, if you wanted to, I know we'll just added on to our retreat. Like that's basically what I want to do. And then we're going to filter porno.

01:02:41:06 - 01:03:10:20

Carly

Yeah, I think that that's something that would be really fun. And yeah, bring the whole experience full circle. The writing of these stories to be able to create that into watchable art is very exciting to me. And I've always had. I know you have a question that is about like, if you were a sex worker, like, what would you do that definitely have a lot of fantasies about porn star being in movies.

01:03:10:20 - 01:03:20:03

Carly

I mean, I've made plenty of my own sex tape. Yeah, but, yeah. I think that I guess I am still an exhibitionist in that sense.

01:03:20:05 - 01:03:37:16

Luna

I love it. That's amazing. Yeah. I think for me, one of the most gratifying things is especially when I'm working with a couple and it's like their first time making a movie together and I get to be they're like holding the camera because I'm really good at holding space for people. And in both sexy ways and photographic ways.

01:03:37:16 - 01:03:52:03

Luna

And so marrying those skills together, also with writing, I'm like, yeah, like getting to create that porn star experience for people is, again, maybe that, no, we probably can't call the retreat back because we would never be able to advertise that creative retreat. Retreat?

01:03:52:05 - 01:04:15:12

Carly

Yeah, that's something I'm still struggling with right now. Like I am making a writing group for Aurora, and I was like pulling on Instagram today, like what it should be called. And of course, like, I want to call it like slutty writing society and stuff. But I can't though, because I can't even use that word. And it's so frustrating to have to censor ourselves.

01:04:15:15 - 01:04:30:19

Carly

And how do we accurately get across, like the work that we're doing? And I want to be like, beyond the paywall. It's so good. I know I send out these emails with all these like asterisks, like bleeping stuff out. And I'm like, it's really like to just read it.

01:04:31:01 - 01:04:48:13

Luna

It's really, you know, it's it's so ridiculous. I like my mind keeps getting blown that like on social media, cigs, cigs is allowed to be a thing, but we can't say the words. I'm like it. It's the same. Me neither. I get I use the phrase original creativity, but of course only the people who deeply listen use that.

01:04:48:15 - 01:05:02:21

Luna

But I'm like original creative. You can't get mad play. You can't get mad, you know, like, yeah. So that's kind of where I'm couching stuff. But again, for people who don't know, they don't know. And so I'm also I'm with you on on noodling on that problem more.

01:05:02:22 - 01:05:09:20

Carly

And I also read something it's like it's not like TikTok or Instagram doesn't understand that. We're like, oh.

01:05:10:00 - 01:05:10:17

Luna

I know.

01:05:10:19 - 01:05:14:17

Carly

Relabeling it. I know what that is to.

01:05:14:19 - 01:05:16:23

Luna

Yeah, it's like the algorithm, I know, but.

01:05:17:00 - 01:05:18:05

Carly

I understand.

01:05:18:05 - 01:05:35:09

Luna

That's the part of the human experience. But I'm just like, you guys are batshit crazy. What the fuck? Like, why is that the norm? You know? Whatever. Because that's. Yeah. Oh. Writing group. Okay. How can people go get involved? If they were like, yeah, I want to do an erotic writing group.

01:05:35:11 - 01:05:54:04

Carly

So I'm doing like random pop ups for the next couple of months because I want to land on a time in a day that works for the most people, and I'm going to put them on the side on the Instagram, and I will be emailing. The best way to keep in touch is to get on the email list, because we are so often shadowed than Instagram.

01:05:54:07 - 01:05:56:11

Luna

And it's a virtual writing group. Just to clarify.

01:05:56:11 - 01:05:56:22

Carly

Yes.

01:05:56:22 - 01:05:58:03

Luna

For now it is.

01:05:58:03 - 01:05:58:19

Carly

Underneath.

01:05:58:21 - 01:06:00:04

Luna

A future hybrid retreat.

01:06:00:04 - 01:06:20:08

Carly

What exactly I mean, and I love the virtual stuff because the last writing workshop we did, we had people in South America, Australia, the UK, like all over the United States. And that's a fucking beautiful thing to bring people together like that. But yeah, absolutely. We're going to be in person one day soon.

01:06:20:10 - 01:06:33:16

Luna

Okay, you already answered my sex worker question, but I'd love to know. What do you think we, the public humanity, need to make the world a sexier, more loving place. We're taking care of each other is the norm.

01:06:33:18 - 01:07:05:08

Carly

I think, and this is something I've struggled with as I've discussed, but I think like treating each sexual encounter with care and intimacy, allowing ourselves to connect with each person regardless of our intentions with them, regardless of, you know, how much we have in common. I said at some point that, like my contribution to society is fucking men and changing their mind about politics.

01:07:05:08 - 01:07:33:20

Carly

Like, I can't think of a better way to make a man vote in a way that you want than to fuck them and convince them of the way you see the world. There's no, you know, greater intimacy and and allowing them to be safe and, and sharing your views and, and the respect that arises from that. And, and the action that arises from that, I am that's my contribution.

01:07:33:22 - 01:07:43:13

Carly

That's how I'm changing all this by fucking people that start out with different values and viewpoints and changing them for the better.

01:07:43:15 - 01:07:57:09

Luna

You're inspiring too many fantasies in me because I'm like, yes, how do I reach the incels? And if they come on and we have a long conversation, then maybe I could fuck them and change. I'm I'm like, dude, that was my dream, I don't know.

01:07:57:11 - 01:08:02:13

Carly

Oh, well, this might not be. Well, no, it will still be on the site. So a woman.

01:08:02:17 - 01:08:04:05

Luna

Who.

01:08:04:07 - 01:08:31:13

Carly

Her name is Van Pasqual Wong. She went to Ukraine when the war started and literally volunteered her body as a sex worker to frontline soldiers and volunteers. And she wrote a story for Aurora a couple weeks ago about these experiences. And it's like there was a lot of articles about her online, like kind of just being derogatory about what she's doing.

01:08:31:13 - 01:08:59:21

Carly

And I'm like, how is the volunteering of one's body in war, whether it's for sex work or literally putting your body? Yeah, yeah. It's like, why is one more valuable than another? And I just I mean, it's it's unsurprising these views, of course, as we do this work, we realize how skewed things are. But, you know, I really want to challenge people to think differently.

01:08:59:21 - 01:09:16:04

Carly

And I wish that our work was less cordoned off to the sex positive realm because this shit should be mainstream. I'm like, really? Meet the people that don't know or don't think this way, which is why we have to fuck them. That is the answer I know.

01:09:16:04 - 01:09:33:10

Luna

I mean, truly, I'm looking to create places and experiences where I can do as much as possible, but also still earn a living, right? Like, I think a lot of my listeners seem to think that I just have some charmed life, and I like, sit around all day and I'm just like, lounging and being this artist and fucking people.

01:09:33:12 - 01:09:59:14

Luna

And so they think that they can, like, have access to my time and energy for free. And I'm like, okay, me as a photographer. And then I could probably fuck a lot of people, you know, like, like if you want me to have the play party, you guys go rate and review on Spotify because we're a shadow band right now and go like join Patreon so I can afford a play space to invite you to, you know, because then I will fuck as many people as possible and, you know, and get them tested.

01:09:59:14 - 01:10:27:23

Luna

And I think also too, like sex workers have always been a huge part of war. Like as a soldier, we need comfort. You can't get that. Especially. It's insane to think about people going months at a time without sex in the most stressful environments you can imagine, right? So, and if anyone has read Burnout by Emily and Amelia Nagasaki, you know that, like after our adrenaline spikes, in order for us to reregulate like we need hugs, we need community, we need a fire to gather around.

01:10:27:23 - 01:10:41:22

Luna

We need all of these things that the modern world has stripped us of, you know? And so then replacing that with shame around things that are like normal happy body things. Yeah. So people can find that on read aurora.com.

01:10:42:03 - 01:11:03:06

Carly

Yes. Redirection is called sex in a war zone. And I actually brought down the paywall on that story because I just wanted everyone to read it. But as yours, Aurora is a reader supported site, so I depend on people signing up to read the stories so that I can pay writers and I can exist as well in the world.

01:11:03:07 - 01:11:24:13

Carly

There's absolutely kind of a distrust or like just an unwillingness, I think, to pay for sexual content because there is so much free porn. But I think there's also a lot of people that are very concerned with consuming ethical porn. And so the stuff that we create is definitely one way to do that.

01:11:24:15 - 01:11:41:15

Luna

Yeah. Beautiful. Okay. So if you had an unlimited budget to create your perfect creation space playroom, dungeon, mansion, palace, castle, hotel, whatever you whatever structure you prefer, what is your space like?

01:11:41:17 - 01:12:00:13

Carly

It's a lot of light and then lots of windows. And then as it gets like to afternoon evening, we have a lot of low lighting, a lot of like warm lamps. I'm imagining a sunken living room, but the sunken aspect is just like a huge bed mattress situation.

01:12:00:13 - 01:12:07:08

Luna

Yes, but maybe also with watching places around the edge. Oh yeah, little seats.

01:12:07:08 - 01:12:08:07

Carly

And like.

01:12:08:09 - 01:12:11:10

Luna

It's just the balcony. Yeah.

01:12:11:12 - 01:12:34:01

Carly

Oh, definitely. Balconies. Floor to ceiling windows, French doors. Throw out to the balcony so you can, like, go out and flash people. The below get flashed. Maybe we're in Europe and I don't know where we were. Somewhere very sexy. Maybe Europe, maybe. Maybe Milan. Somebody recently told me that Milan is the sexiest city and I'm like, okay.

01:12:34:02 - 01:12:34:16

Luna

Oh.

01:12:34:18 - 01:12:37:18

Carly

Going there soon. Yeah, that's where the retreat is.

01:12:37:18 - 01:12:41:08

Luna

I was just to say, should we have a retreat there? I mean, yes, everyone should.

01:12:41:11 - 01:13:02:14

Carly

Yes. Yeah. Lighting is so important to me. The vibe the lighting creates is so important. So that's a big one. And comfort. So the bed mattress, but also like pillows that are giving you some support so you can like lounge but also prop up your back. Yeah.

01:13:02:16 - 01:13:14:04

Luna

Yeah. Oh I love it so much. Okay Carly, I think we're going to have to have you back to talk creativity and more sexy work related things. But I would.

01:13:14:04 - 01:13:15:18

Carly

Love, yeah.

01:13:15:18 - 01:13:16:04

Luna

I just want.

01:13:16:04 - 01:13:23:03

Carly

To come back and we can check in and we can, you know, start really planting the seeds for our upcoming retreat.

01:13:23:07 - 01:13:36:09

Luna

Oh, I think we've planted them. We just got to keep watering and nourishing. Yes, yes. And love. If you can help nourish those seeds by visiting Reid aurora.com. Carly, thank you so much for being a guest on X stories.

01:13:36:11 - 01:13:38:23

Carly

Thank you for having me. It was beautiful to talk to you.