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23 American pansexual cis male, married with some poly mixed in.

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00:00:00:08 - 00:00:16:16

Luna

Our guest today is a 23 year old American cisgendered male. He is pansexual, married with some poly mixed in. He's into biting, scratching, choking, pegging, giving and receiving. Oral and bondage. An IT dude from the South currently living in Florida. Welcome, Zach.

00:00:16:18 - 00:00:18:02

Zach

Happy to be here.

00:00:18:04 - 00:00:28:06

Luna

We're so happy to have you. Can you start off by telling us about your shame? A meter on a scale of 1 to 10, with ten being super full of shame and one being not so shame you. Where do you fall today?

00:00:28:08 - 00:00:52:12

Zach

In this current situation, I would say zero because I've listened to your podcast on and off, and in my normal life I'm not really shameful either. It really depends like on the vibe of the person I know. Just since I listen to your podcast, actually, I'm more blunt. I'll talk about sex more openly, and if someone starts to act like, oh, what the, you know, I'll start to tone down like, oh, okay, that's not normal to them anyway, you know?

00:00:52:14 - 00:01:00:09

Luna

Nice. Okay, so it sounds like you have a good barometer historically. Did you have a lower high shame a beta? Like, how has it flowed over the years?

00:01:00:11 - 00:01:17:20

Zach

Maybe when I was younger, I had some shame because I had some, like, bits where I didn't know if what I was doing was wrong. You know, in my formative years. But now I look back on like, oh, that was just normal puberty, teenage boy, you know? Totally.

00:01:17:22 - 00:01:22:10

Luna

Can you tell us what your sex life is like right now? Just a little overview and your favorite parts.

00:01:22:12 - 00:01:36:06

Zach

My wife and I, we both have a lot going on mentally, so we definitely are working on ourselves a bit. So we don't have sex. As much as I would be up for, but I'm definitely I understand it.

00:01:36:08 - 00:01:41:17

Luna

And you're doing the investment work. Just want to point that out. Like taking time to work on ourselves is huge.

00:01:41:19 - 00:01:58:11

Zach

Yeah, I definitely understand like what we're both going through, you know. But it definitely is good when we have it. It's definitely very intimate, very passionate. Anyway, my favorite parts are, I guess one, we're just doing it. I'm a very sexual being, so I just enjoy the trip. You know?

00:01:58:16 - 00:02:09:17

Luna

I enjoy the journey and the destination and looking forward to the journey and then looking forward to the next journey after I reach that first destination. How long have you been married? How long have you been in this relationship?

00:02:09:19 - 00:02:24:06

Zach

So we've been married two years in four days, actually, and we've been together since 2019, in May. So, like a while, over three years, I want to say. Yeah, go on for awesome.

00:02:24:08 - 00:02:29:12

Luna

Okay, now tell us what is sexy to you.

00:02:29:13 - 00:02:49:07

Zach

Sexy. I think to me would be like confidence or when someone's interested in your interests and when you're talking to them, you don't feel like they're, like, bored out of their mind. They're listening in like they find it really interesting. So just, like, invested in this, I guess, if that's even a word.

00:02:49:09 - 00:03:00:06

Luna

Yeah. I was actually thinking about that exact thing this morning. I was like, is it called attention to. I just am I an attention whore? Is it? No, I just want to be seen. I just want someone who likes me and I like them.

00:03:00:08 - 00:03:07:07

Zach

And then I think sexy, like as a visual. I like thigh high stuff like that. I've.

00:03:07:09 - 00:03:09:08

Luna

When do you feel sexiest?

00:03:09:10 - 00:03:30:11

Zach

Maybe. Like when I'm wearing, like, a cool outfit. Like I've been trying to go out of my comfort zone lately with not just wearing, like, my male specific clothes, trying to, like, blur the lines a little, you know, or when I let people, like, just put makeup on me for fun, I just kind of like being seen making a scene.

00:03:30:11 - 00:03:39:17

Luna

I guess making is being seen and making a scene, I love that. Okay, now tell us what counts as sex for you.

00:03:39:19 - 00:04:01:10

Zach

He asked me when I was younger. I would have said strictly, probably penetration. But in the world we live now, I think sex is like we've brought in it because there's people that can't have intrusion or things like that, you know? So I think sex could be anything from like oral sex to whatever you classify yourself as. Sex is sex.

00:04:01:10 - 00:04:02:01

Zach

To me.

00:04:02:03 - 00:04:19:20

Luna

It is so contextual, just like you said, because in my own brain, with my own upbringing, same thing. It's penetration, not just per view, but like if there's fingers like for me, it really is penetration related in my like brain. If I was like, oh, I fucked someone like they fucked me, that's like what I would be thinking of.

00:04:19:22 - 00:04:32:03

Luna

But then if I meet someone who, like, only wants to have like sex or just likes blowjobs or only wants to receive oral or, you know, something like that, I'm like, oh yeah, that's our sex. And so then I would like re categorize it in my head.

00:04:32:05 - 00:04:35:08

Zach

It definitely varies person to person. I would say, yeah.

00:04:35:10 - 00:04:44:14

Luna

Okay. Tell us now, did you ever get a helpful sex education or explicit health and safety talk or a lesson in consent from a grownup that you trusted?

00:04:44:16 - 00:05:00:14

Zach

So we did get the normal sex ed class that everyone got. I remember when I got it, I think high school, but actually in high school I think that's the first and really only time I heard about consent was in sex ed and they showed us. I don't know if you're familiar with the T video.

00:05:00:16 - 00:05:02:00

Luna

I don't know the T video.

00:05:02:02 - 00:05:18:20

Zach

It's like a metaphor for consent. Like, think of you're in a house with someone and you're like, would you like some tea? And they're like, yeah, I'll have some tea. And then you bring them the tea and they change their mind. You're not going to force them to drink the tea. So tea and consent, that's what we learn.

00:05:18:20 - 00:05:28:22

Zach

Basically. If you're not sure if consent is there, think about the tea. Like would I make a person drink this tea, you know. Or if they're not sure about the tea, am I going to make them tea?

00:05:29:00 - 00:05:36:20

Luna

Was that helpful for you? Like has that been helpful throughout the years? And like, do you remember what it was like when you learned that, like, I wonder if that would be helpful for me?

00:05:37:00 - 00:05:44:23

Zach

At first, I don't know if it made sense, but when you think about it like as an adult, it definitely is like consent is clear.

00:05:45:01 - 00:05:52:05

Luna

It's not for a lot of people. It's really not for so many people I talked to, and they get so squiggly when I use that C-word.

00:05:52:06 - 00:05:55:22

Zach

I don't know, I'm just not interested. If there isn't consent, you know?

00:05:56:00 - 00:06:08:05

Luna

Absolutely. Have there been specific moments that you've thought in the past where you, like, had to remember the tea to, like, guide you? Or was it something that was then so easy because you just had it in your brain already?

00:06:08:07 - 00:06:24:19

Zach

I think it's really easy for me, since it's like some reason I think about things a lot, and that's one of them. I don't know why, just because I was young and probably when I was multiple. So it's in my like forefront of my brain or whatever. If I'm in a situation, I will always ask, is this okay?

00:06:24:19 - 00:06:39:11

Zach

Are we good with this? Yeah, good. I'll ask. Even my wife like threw out a couple times just because if something's uncomfortable or not wanted, I don't want to continue. That's not what I'm here for, you know? Yeah.

00:06:39:12 - 00:06:59:05

Luna

I've been a really big fan lately of the phrase, does this feel good? And then after, like, yes, I add, how could I make it better? It's an invitation to collaborate. And then if they're like, no, no, this is really perfect, then I know it's not just a polite answer because I was kind of one of my biggest actually continues to be one of my biggest sex figures.

00:06:59:05 - 00:07:16:22

Luna

And it's probably the reason this podcast exists, because my insecurity comes from a place of like, I have a hard time reading human signals, and I also have a hard time trusting the human explicit signals that I receive back, because I know that there's so much nuance and in between and stuff can be true, but it can also be not true.

00:07:17:00 - 00:07:26:03

Luna

So, okay, anything else to say about, like your formative health and safety consent, like all of that stuff, you didn't get a parental sex talk.

00:07:26:05 - 00:07:46:11

Zach

I did, but not really on consent. Just like more like what a penis is. What a vagina is, where babies come from. That's about it. I do have one more thing on consent that I just remembered. I was living with a girlfriend at the time. She was going to college, and they had these pamphlets on sexy ways to ask for consent or make sure there is consent.

00:07:46:16 - 00:08:05:14

Zach

And I thought that was like, really cool at the time. Yeah. And we kind of did it jokingly. I think there's a video to I was like, is this okay? Do you like this? Is this good for you? So I would say, like everyone and we kind of just had like a fun bout about it. But I definitely think that is a clever way to implement consent to some people.

00:08:05:14 - 00:08:22:09

Zach

I think following consent conversations are scary, so I think that would help if it's more of like not do we have consent? But like more of like a do we have consent but in a more conversational way, like, yeah, is this okay? Or we are.

00:08:22:14 - 00:08:29:15

Luna

Going to be in legal trouble now? It's like, is this an awesome time for you, babe? Like it's just a totally different tone.

00:08:29:17 - 00:08:31:02

Zach

Make it a conversation.

00:08:31:04 - 00:08:52:21

Luna

Yeah. The reason I started for fronting this at the beginning of episodes is as I would talk to people and bring up the concept of consent, I noticed this kind of pattern of like, I didn't do anything wrong. Like every time it comes up and it's like, oh, I know, but like, what are we even talking about? And so I want to live in a world where everyone can just experience great joy and feel safe enough to do that sexually.

00:08:52:21 - 00:09:13:00

Luna

So that's part of it. But that consent word scares a lot of people. So thank you for introducing me to the T concept. Now I will always think of consent. Okay. Now as an adult, can you give us an example of a time that you've said a very clear yes to something that turned into something sexy and or hot for you?

00:09:13:01 - 00:09:35:21

Zach

I can't think of anything that I have said an explicit yes to, but something I asked someone else an explicit yes to. I think it was before my wife and I got married and I was super nervous about mentioning this to her just because we're close. But it's like, not an easy thing to ask. I was like, so how do you feel about strap on and she's like, hell yeah, let's do it.

00:09:35:23 - 00:09:54:17

Zach

Where are we getting it? And that opened a lot of doors for me, because I had learned early on that I could ask her anything and I would get a enthusiastic and whatever I wanted. Pretty much answer would come out of that conversation, you know? Wow. Because we're very similar people.

00:09:54:19 - 00:10:09:08

Luna

I'm going to say it sounds like awesome compatibility. Okay. Now tell us what, if anything happens to your shame, meet her when it's time to talk to a partner about safer sex. And in your ideal world, how do those conversations unfold?

00:10:09:10 - 00:10:27:18

Zach

I wouldn't say I have a shame. I meter when I talk about, say, sex and another person just kind of make the conversation not so like cut and dry, like they're filling up paperwork, basically. Like, what do you like, what does it for you? What's your test status? You know, yeah. Just to learn about the person. Not necessarily like have an interview, you know.

00:10:27:19 - 00:10:28:06

Zach

Totally.

00:10:28:12 - 00:10:33:23

Luna

When do you usually bring it up? Like when in the new connection? If it's a new connection.

00:10:34:01 - 00:10:49:18

Zach

Pretty soon after, just like maybe over texts or when we meet in person, like, what are you looking for? Basically, I let them know I'm married because sometimes that is a red flag. Okay, so I definitely am very open about what my situation is.

00:10:49:20 - 00:11:03:09

Luna

Nice. That's awesome. So now take us back to your early years. Walk us through your formative sexual experiences starting at the very beginning. What happened to shape Zack into the sexy being that he is today?

00:11:03:11 - 00:11:20:11

Zach

I remember, I think first time ever sexual experience I went to a friend's birthday party and he was like, oh guys. And it was late. And one of them was like, what have we just watch porn? All of us together? And I was like, hell yeah. Even though I've never seen porn in my life, I'm like a child, you know?

00:11:20:14 - 00:11:47:03

Zach

Yeah. But I think that was the first encounter and it was scary, I think. I don't know, it's just like when you're young and you never seen the things happen before. You're like, what is that? Why are they doing that to that person? Are they okay? You know. Yeah. Porn is like a shock. If you've never seen it, it can be good, but it can also be pretty bad, I think, depending on like the audience.

00:11:47:03 - 00:11:47:20

Zach

Basically.

00:11:47:22 - 00:12:07:23

Luna

I think it's also framing and context and like what you get exposed to first. Well, I don't know. I'm not an expert, but just from talking to people, I know that people have completely different understandings of stuff going into literally everything. What do you remember seeing first and thinking and feeling about it? And can you set the scene for us?

00:12:07:23 - 00:12:13:18

Luna

Like, where were you guys? Were there grown ups around? Do you remember how old you were? Like.

00:12:14:06 - 00:12:33:18

Zach

Do not remember how old, probably teen or right pre-teen, like right around there, a little younger. There was one adult, but she was asleep. It was my friend's mom, and it was dark because there was an older like, probably like a little bit older than us, a teenager that I guess had watch porn before. So he was like, what we just watched it.

00:12:33:18 - 00:12:51:19

Zach

So we put it on and we're like, what is this? And it was like really weird. Like, I've never seen it again to this day, but night vision porn, we're like, it's dark and it's like, got the night vision lens. I thought it was pretty interesting. Then I guess that was what my brain was on as a child on like night vision.

00:12:51:19 - 00:12:53:02

Zach

That's pretty cool, I know.

00:12:53:02 - 00:12:55:20

Luna

Like, what are they using a baby monitor? Like?

00:12:55:22 - 00:13:14:16

Zach

I have no idea, but I thought it was pretty neat. Like a trail cam maybe, or something. Yeah, but yeah, that was the first sexual like memory that I can recall. Okay. I have like a rough idea of what sex was, but hearing about it is a lot different than seeing like, at this point, I didn't know what masturbation was.

00:13:14:21 - 00:13:18:08

Zach

Anything like that. So it was definitely a shock.

00:13:18:10 - 00:13:35:09

Luna

Okay. So what unfolded for you after that, or did it just sort of sit for a while, like, when did you start really understanding more about what it was and or experiencing your own turn on to differentiate from like young child, like curiosity.

00:13:35:11 - 00:13:57:06

Zach

Like right around that time after I saw it, I probably watched it on my own at home. I had this tablet, and I'm sure that thing has so many viruses because I was going through puberty with it, you know? But the funny thing is, I had terrible internet, I lived in the country and we had satellite internet. And if you ever try to watch porn on satellite internet setting.

00:13:57:07 - 00:13:59:09

Luna

Or do anything besides e-mail.

00:13:59:11 - 00:14:25:19

Zach

So basically, even though I'm pretty young, I had to live pre-internet kind of puberty stages. So I came across some of my dad's magazines that were hidden in, like this little coffee table, and I would come home from school, I'd be home by myself, and I would just look through them. I'm skipping ahead, actually a little. So when I started watching porn on my tablet, I didn't know what masturbation was in my head.

00:14:25:19 - 00:14:41:14

Zach

I was like, vaginas are kind of like circles and I can make a circle in my hand. So what if I just, like, kind of did that for a while? I'm like, oh, that feels good. And I had no idea what was going to happen because I guess I didn't connect the dots or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And something happened eventually.

00:14:41:14 - 00:14:57:23

Zach

Obviously it took a while and then I was like, what? I thought I was an explorer. I thought I found something no one else knew. I didn't know what this was called. I thought I was a freak. That's one of you. Probably my shame. A meter was a little high because I felt like I shouldn't be doing that.

00:14:57:23 - 00:15:19:05

Zach

Whatever I just did, because I didn't even know what I did. Yeah, and I didn't talk about it with my parents because obviously I was embarrassed a little. So that's when I discovered that I didn't know what it was. I guess somewhere in the porn journey, I learned what it was and found out, oh, that's not just something other people also do that.

00:15:19:07 - 00:15:44:14

Zach

So the magazines I found were like these lingerie magazines. I thought my dad would just draw pictures because he at the time drew a lot, and I didn't think anything of it. But my dad is actually trans. So I'm guessing she now would, you know, look at the magazines and purchase stuff and, like, draw pictures to make, you know, whatever she wanted.

00:15:44:14 - 00:15:50:05

Zach

But at that time, it was just my dad, you know? Now, my dad's a she still call her dad.

00:15:50:07 - 00:15:58:07

Luna

That's awesome, I love that. Do you want to talk about that at all? You're the first person I've interviewed who has a transparent that they've told me about.

00:15:58:09 - 00:16:16:11

Zach

Yeah, we can talk about it. So I didn't know about it until I was 16. It was my 16th birthday. I remember it pretty clearly. We went to see Jurassic World. Yeah, I think Dress World came out on my 16th birthday. I'm really invested apart and all my friends were there and everything, and it was like the morning of or the night of.

00:16:16:11 - 00:16:35:10

Zach

They told me about it and I just remembered I'm like, this is my fucking birthday, and you bring this up now. And at that time I'm not really sure the whole details of it, but I think they just said that my dad was a cross-dresser. They didn't say that she was trans or anything, and we didn't learn about that until later.

00:16:35:10 - 00:16:58:00

Zach

My mom claims that she didn't even know that my dad was trans until the transition period, you know? So it was definitely a shock. And for a while it made me feel like kind of like a mistake. And I felt like I kind of like, put a halt to whatever plans my dad had, you know, like, if she did want to transition, I felt like I was kind of stopped or whatever you would call it.

00:16:58:00 - 00:17:06:09

Zach

I felt like I was a mistake, that I kind of stopped whatever she wished to do with her life, you know? Wow. So I felt bad about that for a long time.

00:17:06:11 - 00:17:09:23

Luna

It sounds like that part has stopped the feeling bad.

00:17:10:01 - 00:17:30:10

Zach

Yeah. I mean, because eventually I'm like, I'm not a mistake. I was born for a reason, you know, like I was born. I'm a human. It happened. I don't need to worry about what my parents were thinking about at the time. I need to live my own life for me. Yeah. After I turned 16 and found out all that, there was a big conflict because my dad was trying to leave.

00:17:30:13 - 00:17:40:12

Zach

And supposedly there's cheating and stuff involved, and my mom was going crazy. It was just real bad. Like they kept making me feel like I had to choose sides.

00:17:40:14 - 00:17:41:13

Luna

Oof, that's.

00:17:41:13 - 00:18:05:20

Zach

Tough. I think I turned 18 and I was pretty pissed at my dad because basically she left us and like, made her side of the family, like basically kind of think of us as the black sheep, like, hate us and everything, even though we didn't really do anything wrong. And then I guess they made up and my mom invited her to come back live with us.

00:18:05:22 - 00:18:23:22

Zach

So I was like, real man, I was 18. I'm like, why would you let her come back? She called the police on you at some point, you know, I ran away. I went and lived with my girlfriend at the time at her college town and then she dumped me. I came back home and I was like, you know what?

00:18:24:00 - 00:18:40:11

Zach

I'm going to join the military. I was there in the process. And like, two weeks later, I left. 18 years old, was gone on my own just because I wanted to get out of that environment. I wanted to live my life, not be involved in someone else's conflict.

00:18:40:13 - 00:18:55:07

Luna

Yeah, thanks for sharing all of that with us. Side question jumping ahead, maybe to a detail, but like, have you ever done anything kinky with Jurassic World? Or was it just like a pure like non-sexual like, would you ever have a role play, be informed by your love of that property?

00:18:55:08 - 00:19:09:14

Zach

Yeah, I think that would be really interesting. I'm not sure if the roleplay would involve you pretending to be dinosaurs, or if you're pretending to be characters from Jurassic Park, but that definitely that sounds awesome. I'm all about like, geeky stuff being involved in the bedroom.

00:19:09:16 - 00:19:28:05

Luna

Okay, the one that popped into my mind is you're in a tropical setting, you know, like you're on one of the island type places where there could be dinosaurs, and it's only a matter of time before you get eaten by the T-Rex, so you have to fuck as much as possible and maybe you fuck the right amount then, like, it'll create magic and keep the T-Rex away.

00:19:28:05 - 00:19:30:08

Luna

Or, I don't know.

00:19:30:10 - 00:19:32:23

Zach

Just be very, very still, you know?

00:19:33:01 - 00:19:36:12

Luna

Ooh, that would be really good. The T-Rex is right there.

00:19:36:14 - 00:19:42:02

Zach

When you mentioned it, my brain immediately went to the inflatable T-Rex costume.

00:19:42:02 - 00:20:01:22

Luna

So that would be so fun. Cool. Okay, so tell us about your formation during that time becoming a young adult. When did you start exploring with other people? We hear that you had a girlfriend by the time you were 18. When did you start playing with people? When did you start understanding more about your own sexuality?

00:20:02:00 - 00:20:22:20

Zach

So between masturbation and partner, the first thing I really remember is in high school is like freshman, sophomore year of high school, how old you are? Then I had this girlfriend. I was like crazy about her. She was a little a little wacky. I think that's maybe where a lot of my formative quirks and kinks maybe came from.

00:20:22:22 - 00:20:24:13

Luna

What flavor of wacky, though.

00:20:24:15 - 00:20:44:06

Zach

When I'm looking back on it now, I didn't know at the time, but probably like somewhere around like Blood Play, kind of like knife play and a little bit more extreme stuff, you know? Okay, so that's not super what I'm into, but I've tried it. I mean, it's got its place. You know, I could tell even at that age that she was pretty, pretty freaky.

00:20:44:06 - 00:21:07:14

Zach

And I was down for it, you know, really the only sexual experience we had because we were young. And it's really hard to have sexual experiences when you're young because you're with parents and everything all the time. And our high school towards the end of the year, like when there's no classes and everyone's done with their testing, they kind of just sit you in the cafeteria and you just sit there and, like, play on your computer or hang out friends or whatever.

00:21:07:16 - 00:21:30:03

Zach

And I remember she brought this blanket and she started to give me a handjob in the cafeteria with, like, my friends around and like, no one knew, but they might have known, you know, like, yeah, on the low end, I remember this janitor, like, really funny, like janitor. He was like love throughout the school. Really good guy comes up missing.

00:21:30:05 - 00:21:46:21

Zach

So what y'all doing? Like, kind of like, making fun of it, like, just cold, you know, chillin. He's like. Any lip. So I think he definitely knew what was going on but no one else knew what was going on. So that was probably my first partner oriented experience.

00:21:46:23 - 00:21:50:01

Luna

Wow. Okay. I'm assuming you liked it.

00:21:50:03 - 00:22:22:16

Zach

It was okay. I mean, it's like you're young, you don't know any better. So a lot of squeezing in, like, hard grabs and stuff that don't feel so great. Yeah, I remember that, which is funny. But then actually seeing girlfriend was at the Jurassic World, birthday thing. And I remember in Jurassic World, like us just making out in like hand stuff in that was probably like the first time I had ever tried to do anything for someone.

00:22:22:18 - 00:22:41:16

Zach

I can't remember if I did anything in the cafeteria with her or not. I don't think so. After her, I, started dating this church girl that I met. She was really sweet, really cool. We only ever really did hand stuff after her. I started seeing this girl that one of my exes tried to get me to cheat on her with.

00:22:41:16 - 00:22:59:23

Zach

It was really complicated. So I was dating a girl that wanted to end the relationship, but she didn't want to break up with me. So she tried to get one of her friends to have me cheat on her with her to end their relationship. And eventually, a couple years later, I did end up dating this girl and the one that she wanted me to.

00:22:59:23 - 00:23:22:05

Zach

She was. And that was actually when I lost my virginity. I was 18 with the girl I ended up living with at the college, and even at 18, that was definitely a lot of formative of my kink upbringing and like learning about what stuff was, because College Girl is kink and I am not really, at the time, pretty new.

00:23:22:06 - 00:23:24:05

Zach

You know, to all of it. Still young. Yeah.

00:23:24:10 - 00:23:37:06

Luna

In these experiences so far, had you learned about your sexuality, like were you attracted to non straight things yet or like what was that part like for you? Did that come with your kinky explorations?

00:23:37:08 - 00:24:07:01

Zach

I started kind of late on that too. Like I didn't really know I was attracted to anyone but women until 19 and like I tried when I was younger. This is kind of also some of the stuff that I was embarrassed about, like I would try to put things in my butt, things that shouldn't be there. You know, when I was young and I actually eventually told my mom about that one time, I was like this, and I feel prepared, and she didn't really make a fuss about it.

00:24:07:01 - 00:24:16:14

Zach

So I kind of appreciate that looking back on it. Yeah. Like I was really embarrassed about it and felt like I shouldn't have done it. She was like, okay, all right, whatever.

00:24:16:19 - 00:24:21:02

Luna

Why did you tell her? Did you need help with something or did like, did it get stuck? Or.

00:24:21:04 - 00:24:43:02

Zach

You know, with most female razors, they have the handle and it's like round and just looks like very smooth looking. So I felt bad because it was my mother's razor, and I let her know that I threw it away and basically so that she wouldn't go ahead and use it, you know. Yeah, I don't even think I got far because I was like, oh, that didn't feel good.

00:24:43:04 - 00:24:59:12

Zach

That was probably early on. Some of the mixing ins that I like, stuff that was more than just your usual heterosexual interests, but I also think that heterosexual people should definitely try stuff with their butts.

00:24:59:13 - 00:25:20:01

Luna

Oh, absolutely. And I know lots of people who identify as straight of either gender or any gender that love butt stuff, and it's, you know, and it's funny to me that some people consider butt stuff kinky and some people don't, not because I think it is or isn't. I just think it's funny that we have different words to say the same stuff depending on where we are and what our experiences are.

00:25:20:03 - 00:25:29:06

Luna

I would love to hear about what you learned about yourself with that kinky college girl. Like, what did you discover? What did you learn? What unfolded for you?

00:25:29:08 - 00:25:42:23

Zach

So she pretty early on told me that she was into drag as like a lifestyle more than just the kink. I think that's the right term. Like the lifestyle form of reality.

00:25:43:05 - 00:26:02:05

Luna

Tell us your understanding and her understanding of it. And do you, for anyone listening who doesn't know is dirty done little girl. But some people use lifestyle to mean not a professional sex worker. Some people mean it's part of the scene. Some people mean I'm a 24 over seven lifestyle person. So tell us what she told you lifestyle was.

00:26:02:05 - 00:26:24:18

Zach

I think it's really meant to her like that. We just kind of like caretaker role, like, I'll do things for you. I'll take care of you. I'll make you food, I'll put on the cartoons and you just chill. It's like a safe place for you to be with someone that protects you. Basically. Yeah. And when you bring up dog, it really depends on who you're telling.

00:26:24:18 - 00:26:48:00

Zach

But usually most of the time you'll get backlash for it. People will think, oh, you like children? No, that's not what this is. It's hard to put into words, really. It's really just a caretaker and the person being taken care of. In my mind, it's someone that doesn't have to really worry about the world and someone that will protect you from the world.

00:26:48:00 - 00:27:09:19

Luna

In my experience, dating some daddies in the last year has been, like you said, an extreme, nurturing quality where when I am in the submissive role, if I'm not being daddy, then I get to just relax and follow along and play and I don't have to worry about, you know, it's not that I'm not sexy. It's not that I'm not womanly.

00:27:09:19 - 00:27:33:19

Luna

It's just that I can be little and cute in whatever I want. And I haven't experienced, like, the cartoon stuff, or like wearing a Snuggie or like a plushie, or like having all of that accouterment yet. But I've not yet met someone who identifies as a daddy, to be very accurate, who seems like a pedophile. Then again, I'm in my 30s, so I don't know what an 18 year old or 20 year old might experience.

00:27:33:19 - 00:27:44:23

Luna

I don't know who looks much younger, how much experience did you have with the concept of anything? You know, I know you had the wacky girl that was a little bit kinky, but like, was it brand new for you? And kind of like wasn't very new.

00:27:45:02 - 00:28:13:08

Zach

Okay, so she prompted it with basically taking the Bdsm test. Yeah, she had me take the test and I was like, my results probably back then were like, vanilla missionary man woman. You know, very cut and dry stuff because that's what I knew. Yeah. So I didn't really know what G was. And back then I was a researcher, I still am if I don't know how to do something like I remember, I would look up how to kiss or how to eat pussy, stuff like that.

00:28:13:10 - 00:28:37:21

Zach

And just like looking at wiki house, like constantly. So I remember I think there's a wikiHow on dog and YouTubers back then that would like kind of explain what it is, because at the time I probably reacted like, oh, this sounds wrong. Like we're pretending that you're a child and it doesn't sound good. But then when I learned what it was, I was like, oh, this is already kind of what I do in a relationship.

00:28:37:21 - 00:28:57:20

Zach

I try to be the caregiver, the protector, the person that keeps you safe. So yeah, let's roll with it. So we definitely dive headfirst in and just kind of went with the lifestyle, kind of like what I was saying. She would like have cute outfits and like she had stuffies and stuff, like you were saying plushies or whatever.

00:28:57:20 - 00:29:08:16

Zach

And we would just have her watch cartoons. And I would make her something like food, like nuggets and stuff like that. You know, you don't have to look into it so much. It's like carefree, I guess.

00:29:08:16 - 00:29:10:17

Luna

Yeah, so playful.

00:29:10:19 - 00:29:32:18

Zach

But she also was into some bondage, which definitely introduced me to that because I had no idea what bondage was. I remember having fantasies when I was younger about being like, kidnaped by a crush and tied up to a chair, you know? Yeah. And then, maybe this is something we use, like scarves or ties or something in, like, tiny each other.

00:29:33:12 - 00:29:53:14

Zach

So, like the bed. And that was like my intro to bondage, and I thought that was really interesting and fun. I still do, obviously. I found at that time, like, I like tying people up, but I prefer, I think, to be the one tied up. Yeah, just because it's makes me feel vulnerable. Which is weird, I guess, to say that you like feeling vulnerable.

00:29:53:14 - 00:29:55:10

Zach

I guess it's normal to say.

00:29:55:12 - 00:30:11:06

Luna

Well, how many times in our lives are we given permission to just be vulnerable? And for me, if I can get into a space with someone that wants that for me, it's so delicious. It's kind of being seen in a way that I don't usually get to get looked at, or the people don't try to look at me that way.

00:30:11:08 - 00:30:13:18

Luna

What do you like to have done to you when you're tied up?

00:30:13:20 - 00:30:40:04

Zach

Oh, anything and everything. I mean, back then it was just pretty simple stuff, probably like scratching in, like kissing, like leaving hickeys and stuff, you know, young love stuff. But she loved giving blowjobs, and that was like the first experience I ever had with them. Yeah. And I was, like, hooked ever since. It's probably like my favorite thing to feel, you know, just because there's nothing quite like it.

00:30:40:06 - 00:30:47:09

Luna

Specifics, please. What do you like to feel? What do you feel? Are your balls involved? Like what an exquisite blowjob for you.

00:30:47:11 - 00:30:53:03

Zach

Balls can be involved. Not entirely necessary, but ever necessary.

00:30:53:03 - 00:30:54:18

Luna

But like.

00:30:54:20 - 00:31:15:03

Zach

I'm not sure what I like about it so much. It's just the experience of all of it as a whole. I don't think there's anything specifically that I really like. I'm like, oh, that's what I like. But I remember one time she lived in a college town and I lived pretty like two hours away. So I would go visit her every like weekend or so.

00:31:15:05 - 00:31:36:13

Zach

And she lived with her mom in like an apartment, like right near the college. And I remember one time I just got there and her mom was like, on the couch in the living room. Like, living room is like, right here. And her room was like right next to it. And I got there and she just takes my pants off, starts giving me a blowjob with the door open with her mom, like, right in the next room.

00:31:36:13 - 00:31:54:06

Zach

I was like, oh my God, I guess that's another like, would that be like exhibitionism? Kind of like the thought of, oh, I could be caught at any moment. This is even hotter, you know? Yeah. So I was pretty lit. She must've really liked giving blowjobs, cause I remember just she would do it a ton, like, once a day.

00:31:54:06 - 00:31:57:00

Zach

Maybe that's commitment.

00:31:57:02 - 00:32:08:02

Luna

I don't know, I personally am, like, if there's a cock around that I have access to, I'd like to put my mouth on it pretty often, even. It doesn't mean it has to be a whole production, but it could be, you know, I get it.

00:32:08:06 - 00:32:14:09

Zach

Yeah, I feel the same way. I mean, I get it now at the time, but I didn't. But now I get it.

00:32:14:11 - 00:32:19:14

Luna

Yeah. When did you start giving oral? You said that that's something that you were into.

00:32:19:16 - 00:32:44:11

Zach

So I did try to give Oral with her. I guess something wasn't right because it just didn't taste right. I guess she wasn't getting the proper care or something. Or maybe she had an infection or something, but I just remember that I could not do it with her because I have a pretty weak stomach. So if something tastes off, I'm going to get sick.

00:32:44:15 - 00:32:55:15

Zach

Yeah, yeah. So I couldn't really do with her. Now, I found that I love giving oral to anyone men, women, whatever you identify as, I don't really care, you know?

00:32:55:17 - 00:32:57:19

Luna

Yeah, yeah. I want to use my mouth to make some pleasure.

00:32:58:01 - 00:33:16:10

Zach

I feel like I like it because. And one of the closest ways you can get to a person like my favorite way to do oral on a vagina is just have her sit on my face. So that's, like, as close as you can get basically to a person, you're literally suffocating in them.

00:33:16:12 - 00:33:45:21

Luna

It's like direct and very deep. I think this is also why, for me, in the last year or two, I've really gotten into not just 69, but I've been thinking of it. Oh my gosh, am I hilarious? I guess it's kind of like a sexy circle. Like a closed loop. Like, I love to put my mouth on my partner's genitals and lately I've been, like, positioning myself in a way where they can either be fingering me and kissing me or also, you know, 69 and but it doesn't have to be the like classic somebody switching someone, you know, any sort of form.

00:33:45:23 - 00:34:02:03

Luna

But I'm realizing that even if I am being penetrated, I really want my mouth also on like ideally kissing, but like, if not, then maybe an ear lobe or something so that it creates this like closed loop of hotness. I love the idea of like no frills, just very direct and very deep.

00:34:02:03 - 00:34:23:02

Zach

I definitely get the mouth thing because I guess it's where biting comes in for me. Like I say, I'm really fixated and people think that's like always sexual, but not really. I, I used to chew gum a lot. I like my mouth to be busy, I don't know. So in sexual experiences I'll just bite onto something. Of course, like with consent, I won't be like, oh yeah, yeah.

00:34:23:02 - 00:34:43:10

Zach

Or you do it lightly and see how they react. You know, with women I prefer it to be like kind of like the 69 where like I'm laying down and then the woman just kind of like laying on me with leaning back, you know, I find that to be the easiest and most appealing way. They don't have to do anything like orally on me.

00:34:43:10 - 00:34:45:08

Zach

I just like that position.

00:34:45:10 - 00:34:57:21

Luna

Yeah, I really like the sideways position too, because there's so many different ways to be sideways and then I can reach stuff more easily, angles wise if I am putting my mouth on them too.

00:34:57:23 - 00:34:59:03

Zach

Often trying to.

00:34:59:05 - 00:35:00:19

Luna

I highly recommend you do.

00:35:00:23 - 00:35:21:15

Zach

I've never tried the like type situation. I never even thought of 69 that way. Yeah, because it's going to be funny. But one of my friend that sometimes is a partner, I guess you could call him. And I was like other men 69 and he was like, what? I'm like, well, think about it. In my mind, there was only the one way to 69 one on top.

00:35:21:15 - 00:35:36:08

Zach

When I'm on, I'm like, the dude on the bottom is going to get suffocated with the dick. How do you happen like they do it on their side, dumbass? I was like, oh, okay, that makes sense. I never thought about it like that.

00:35:36:10 - 00:35:56:08

Luna

I also but there are, you know, couples of penis owners out there who can, I don't know, audience. You tell us, are you a penis owner with a partner who's a penis owner, and you've got each other with cocks, like, how do you 69 because I feel like it also might really depend on bodies. Okay, so with that college girl, what else did you discover?

00:35:56:08 - 00:36:09:13

Luna

Or like, what else were you kind of how long were you together? Like, what else did you do together that was part of your whole thing. Like when did you start also exploring with other partners and kinky people? Like what came next? Basically.

00:36:09:15 - 00:36:33:11

Zach

Okay. We were living together for like a year. She was very spontaneous, like in public. She would do something and I thought that was like super hot. I never had experienced that form would be like in a grocery store, and she'd be touching on me and stuff, you know? Yeah. And then in, like, parking lots and just like all these public places that I never had, like, experience before, that was like, what if I got caught?

00:36:33:11 - 00:36:39:22

Zach

What if this happened? You know, just kind of like that danger kind of feel.

00:36:40:00 - 00:36:41:19

Luna

Oh. Did you ever get caught?

00:36:41:21 - 00:37:05:15

Zach

I think one time we were, like, making out. Nothing like super crazy outside of, like, a Jimmy Jones. And I think I walked up and knocked on the window and we're like, what's up? And that was like, all that really ever happened. Like in court. Now, when she would come and visit me where I lived, we had this little neighborhood and they had this dirt road that went way into the woods, and it was only one way.

00:37:05:15 - 00:37:24:13

Zach

So you had to drive in and back out. So that's where we would most of the time get our sex on, you know, out in the woods, in the car. I thought that was pretty fun to kind of like the danger. Like there's houses like. Right. Yeah. A couple hundred and like 100ft away. What if they saw our car?

00:37:24:15 - 00:37:28:15

Zach

So it was pretty intense and same kind of vibe.

00:37:28:17 - 00:37:33:03

Luna

Also, woods are hot, like that's a bakery, Korean hot and primal kind of, you know.

00:37:33:05 - 00:37:36:21

Zach

That's something I definitely want to try out in the woods. I never have.

00:37:37:00 - 00:37:37:23

Luna

Same, never.

00:37:38:04 - 00:38:01:06

Zach

So I did want to mention that like some of my maybe exhibitionism came from there. She dumped me. I come back home couple days later. I was kind of, this is how I was when I was younger. I found another girl that I started dating, like right after she dumped me. Pretty much the first time we had sex was in a hotel because she wanted our first time to be special.

00:38:01:06 - 00:38:18:08

Zach

I remember that, and then she was fine with whatever after that, basically. Okay, so we had sex in the hotel room and she was like, super concerned about because I wanted to go down on her because I wanted to try it. I wanted to experience it again because I didn't really have a great experience with my previous girlfriend.

00:38:18:10 - 00:38:38:11

Zach

So she was like all week. She was like eating pineapple and everything because she thought that was like the like way. And I don't know if it worked or not, but it tasted fine. And, you know, I obviously was down there for a while. And then after that we kind of like had a lot of little bouts in my car, like in parking lots.

00:38:38:16 - 00:39:01:12

Zach

It was always pretty ironic where we had sex in the parking lot. So we did it at Church Park part one time. I was like, this is pretty funny. A school parking lot in her front yard and the driveway just kind of like everywhere there was a lot of car sex because we couldn't do it in our homes because we're still young, you know, and parents are involved.

00:39:01:14 - 00:39:13:00

Zach

And then I left, went off to boot camp after her. We dated for like a month, and then I left and then I went to boot camp. Doesn't happen. Boot camp. I didn't even masturbate at all.

00:39:13:01 - 00:39:16:11

Luna

Not even like in the shower, just exhausted. Okay. Wow.

00:39:16:12 - 00:39:36:11

Zach

I guess I was just so tired and boot camp and stuff that I didn't put in my job training, which is after boot camp. It's like you learn your job. I did masturbate in the bathroom or like in bed when everyone's asleep, you know? But I was still dating the girl at the time, but she cheated on me when I got to it, so I kind of sucked.

00:39:36:13 - 00:40:02:15

Zach

But then I met this girl, and I it. That's what job training is called. And she was 28 and I was 18 at the time, so I was like, hell yeah, she was a mom. So it was like all very interesting stuff to me. Yeah, we had little makeout sessions when we were not supposed to be behind like walls and stuff at my training, because you're not supposed to do that kind of stuff.

00:40:02:16 - 00:40:04:06

Luna

Yeah. Don't fraternize.

00:40:04:08 - 00:40:13:05

Zach

Basically. But when you get to a certain level, you can also go off base. So we would go see like a movie and like do hand stuff in the movie.

00:40:13:06 - 00:40:15:08

Luna

Go off base to get to first base.

00:40:15:10 - 00:40:40:05

Zach

Yeah. And that was about all it got to. I left my training. This is when Church Girl. When I was talking about that, we'd never had sex. She was like, do you want to have sex when you come back? I'm like, okay, I guess because I'm single, I don't have anyone. So she actually my mom and her were really good friends, so she came up with my mom to my graduation, my ex.

00:40:40:05 - 00:40:59:10

Zach

We all stayed in the same hotel room. My mom had a bed and then she had a bed. And then there was a wall separating us and I slept on the couch. Okay. And I think she sent me a text and she was like, hey, you're awake. I'm like, yeah. And she comes over and starts giving me a blowjob with the wall.

00:40:59:10 - 00:41:17:10

Zach

And my mom like right there. So that was definitely like an experience. She's, you know, down there and I have an orgasm and then I hear my mom getting up, so I'm like, go, go, go, you need to go to the bathroom. So she goes in the bathroom, just acts like she's in the bathroom and I pretend to be asleep.

00:41:17:12 - 00:41:38:14

Zach

We made it just by the skin of our teeth. My mom never knew. You know, it was pretty funny. But then, same time, while I'm visiting home around when I got out of training, we also went to amusement park, and we had a hotel right outside of there. And then we had sex for the first time because I never actually had sex with church girl until then.

00:41:38:19 - 00:42:01:00

Zach

There was never a chance to vanilla sex. Nothing crazy with her. Yeah. So after that, I was done visiting home. That's when I got stationed in. And I lived in Korea for a year, which is where I met my wife eventually. But when I got to Korea pretty soon after, that's when I had this situation happen that was like, not super cool.

00:42:01:01 - 00:42:22:08

Zach

So I was talking to this girl that was one of my military buddies, friends that lived in California, actually. And and we just hit it off like we're really good friends. And we talked a lot like we saw the potential to maybe like, date when I got back and she was just being like real wishy washy. So it made me like pretty upset.

00:42:22:10 - 00:42:55:11

Zach

So I, you know, I did what every person does when they're upset, go get drunk. So I went to Derek's party and just got super blasted on some Jack Daniels. There was a guy that I was flirting with supposedly, and eventually they took me back to my room. I was laying in bed, I threw up in my bed, and then one of my team leads helped me shower with the guy I was flirting with, like they weren't in the shower, but they were like, outside.

00:42:55:11 - 00:43:19:09

Zach

Like, make sure I was okay and stuff. And then my team Leon leaves. So it's just me and the guy that I was flirting with. And then after that, I kind of blacked out. I don't know what term to put on the situation, but the guy kind of took advantage of the situation when I was real blackout drunk, even if I flirted with him, I don't feel like that's what I wanted, you know?

00:43:19:11 - 00:43:24:15

Zach

Yeah, like I just threw off my bed. I don't really know if I have the best judgment right now.

00:43:24:17 - 00:43:30:06

Luna

If someone has thrown up in their bed, it's probably not the right moment for them to drink tea.

00:43:30:07 - 00:43:50:09

Zach

They can't drink the tea. Yeah. So they're blackout. Yeah. I felt used and kind of like like taken advantage of, like I didn't have a say in what happened to me. It bothered me for a while. I was over there, but it doesn't bother me really now. I think subconsciously it does a little because as some people say on your podcast, go to therapy, it definitely helps.

00:43:50:11 - 00:44:08:03

Zach

It helped me and they think subconsciously a lot of that might have had to do with what is all going on in my brain. You know? So I never thought about it. I never even really mentioned it in therapy until they I answered a question and said, do you ever look back on something and think about it off, saying like what?

00:44:08:04 - 00:44:18:16

Zach

What? What was it? What do you think about it? Yeah. Like, oh, I had this thing happen. And then I realized then I was like, wow, maybe that was something bad, you know, like something that shouldn't have happened.

00:44:18:18 - 00:44:20:05

Luna

00:44:20:07 - 00:44:32:18

Zach

But it's a really weird situation because after that is when I started to think maybe I am interested in more than just women. Maybe I'm more than just straight, because at the time, I thought I was just straight.

00:44:32:20 - 00:44:34:02

Luna

How was that for you?

00:44:34:04 - 00:44:39:07

Zach

It's weird because it took that situation for me to realize, so it's kind of iffy.

00:44:39:09 - 00:44:40:06

Luna

00:44:40:08 - 00:44:55:11

Zach

But anyway, on a lighter note, after that, a couple months, I was like, you know what? I'm going to explore this. So I bought a prostate simulator and that was fun. But I found out that I'm not really into self stuff with my.

00:44:55:11 - 00:45:22:06

Luna

But do you think it has to do with, like, relaxation? I feel something similar, whether it's my pussy or my asshole. Like I really love having stuff done to it, but when I have to do it myself. So far, we'll see how my future unfolds. Right now, it feels like I cannot yet get into the same state of relaxation if I also have to, like, manage all the activity for myself.

00:45:22:06 - 00:45:36:02

Luna

Which is not to say that I don't sometimes include my own self penetration when I'm pleasuring, but it is, completely different experience and it's not the like surrender of receiving that I would prefer with a partner.

00:45:36:04 - 00:45:55:06

Zach

Yeah, I definitely think that's a factor, because when you're not doing it yourself, you just get to relax. You just get to be in the moment. You don't have to worry about logistics and like, how should I lay or how should I use my arms? Yeah, I just don't think I'm relaxed enough when I do it. So yeah, it'll either hurt or just not feel right.

00:45:55:12 - 00:45:57:20

Zach

It was a good like introduction, I guess.

00:45:57:22 - 00:46:19:20

Luna

Oh, here's a question, because I'm now reflecting on the best penetration I've had at my own literal hands, but I was in combination on the phone in hot sext message mode with a partner who was telling me what to do since they were far away. Is that something that you think you might explore if if the situation never arose?

00:46:19:22 - 00:46:29:17

Zach

Definitely. That does sound fun. I'm always down to try anything at least once and only twice. If the first time wasn't clear enough, you know, totally.

00:46:29:18 - 00:46:43:02

Luna

I always say three times just to be sure. Unless the first two were like, traumatizing. Terrible. Okay, so prostate stuff you're exploring where there live cocks at some point or kind of what not just tell us what unfolded next for you.

00:46:43:05 - 00:47:03:17

Zach

Yeah. So after that, I actually was still dating women. I opened my Tinder or whatever to men also, but I just wasn't really super interested. I got Grindr eventually because I found that existed. Never anything came of that in Korea. I'd like talk to people, but they were just like a little bit too much. I think for me, in time, I'm like brand new in the world.

00:47:03:18 - 00:47:21:07

Zach

I'm not like looking for a whole lot. I'm just kind of like looking for an introduction, you know? But everyone's like, oh, I do this. I'll do that. I'm like, that's nice. You know? I don't know anything about that right now. So it was a little bit too much. Yeah. And then I ended up actually going on a date with my wife.

00:47:21:07 - 00:47:27:10

Zach

And that's how we met. Went to a movie first date. That's always a movie. It seems like for me.

00:47:27:12 - 00:47:34:17

Luna

Local movies are like such an integral part of your explorations. Anyway, though, you met your wife.

00:47:34:19 - 00:48:00:00

Zach

We didn't have sex for a couple weeks because she wanted it to be special and she wanted to be with someone she loved. I respected it because she was tired of like, meeting people that just wanted sex. Yeah, and we waited like a month or two, maybe even. And then we we did have sex in my room. Normal stuff, but very passionate and loving just because we how close we gotten.

00:48:00:02 - 00:48:19:18

Zach

It's a connection that I haven't shared with anyone else, so it makes everything ten times better. Like even just kissing. It's like, you know how they describe kissing like fireworks, like in the movies and stuff? Totally. That's how it feels when I kiss my wife. It's like there's a static, something going off electricity. It's insane.

00:48:19:19 - 00:48:32:03

Luna

But awesome. So it sounds like you had quite a bit of sexual compatibility. What is it been like for you, and how has it been since you've brought another life into this world with this person?

00:48:32:05 - 00:49:00:16

Zach

I would say we're pretty sexually compatible, but our drives are quite different. My wife could go forever without having sex, but me, on the other hand, I could have sex three times a day and I'd be just fine. Plus, she's working through stuff. I'm working through stuff. So we're figuring that out, but we're still super sexually compatible. It's just kind of on a break while we figure out what's going on in our brains and our lives.

00:49:00:16 - 00:49:01:06

Zach

You know.

00:49:01:08 - 00:49:16:05

Luna

Absolutely an opportunity for self-discovery and mutual creativity to figure out how you want to collaborate. Whatever unfolds. I mentioned in your intro that there's some, like, Polish stuff. How does that come up for you? When did you start kind of those explorations? How is it for you?

00:49:16:06 - 00:49:40:20

Zach

Yeah, so actually, it's funny, we learn about it kind of from your podcast. I was interested in it. And then we heard one of your episodes, kind of like on Polly, and I didn't know much about it at the time, so I was pretty interested in it. So I did some research and stuff like I usually do, and I was like thinking in my brain like, wow, this would be pretty good for me because I'm taking some of that pressure off of my wife.

00:49:41:02 - 00:50:00:19

Zach

Like, I'm not saying I pressure my wife, but I'm sure she feels pressure. You know, for me, because I'm so sex is more than just sex in my brain. It's like healthy relationship. Like, this is how I check in with my relationship, you know, it's how you get close with someone. So I definitely need it. Even though sex you don't need.

00:50:00:19 - 00:50:03:00

Zach

But in my brain, it feels like I need it.

00:50:03:02 - 00:50:26:01

Luna

I read a book that said men often experience emotional intimacy through physical intimacy. Women often need a lot of emotional intimacy to want physical intimacy. That's a very broad generalization. But like, that's why it's, to me, extremely tragic when partners are not connecting in ways that, you know, where there's an imbalance.

00:50:26:03 - 00:50:46:10

Zach

Yeah, I think I've heard that before, just in a different way. But I think it resonates with me because it definitely supports like my emotional health and like how I feel connected to my partner. Yeah. When I'm physically involved with them. So that's kind of like what sparked my interest in it. So I mentioned it to my wife.

00:50:46:12 - 00:51:05:14

Zach

And then of course, I had her listen to your episode of the podcast that was talking about it, and she's like, wow, that does sound really interesting because at the time we're both like monogamy. No, you can't, you can't do this. We've been taught on our lives that, yeah, we have to be cookie cutter. We can't do that.

00:51:05:14 - 00:51:29:06

Zach

That's wrong. Stuff like that. And when we listened to the episode, we were like, well, there's more you can have multiple connections with different people, and that doesn't diminish your relationship at all. Yeah. So that's kind of what introduced us. So around like May of this year we started trying to like dip our feet in, you know okay.

00:51:29:08 - 00:51:56:22

Zach

We got like the dating apps and started talking with people. And we went to like a bar and met people, you know. So that's where it kind of started. But we mainly stick with for now anyway, partners that are same genital partners. So that makes sense. So me with same genital partners and then she was same genital partners okay.

00:51:57:00 - 00:52:12:08

Zach

Because we just don't see the need to really explore because we have each other for that. And we're young. So we didn't really get to experience the same general side. So that's kind of what our mindset is on it. Cool.

00:52:12:10 - 00:52:17:23

Luna

Would you ever want to explore together or it sounds like maybe you're exploring more in parallel?

00:52:18:01 - 00:52:26:12

Zach

We are in parallel, but I would definitely be interested in experiencing something together with like a third, like shared partner or even more.

00:52:26:14 - 00:52:32:17

Luna

Would you want to go to play parties and things like that? If it was a great environment, obviously that's always a given.

00:52:32:19 - 00:52:49:15

Zach

Definitely I am interested, but I just don't know how to locate that or how I would feel in that situation. But I just want to give it a shot. Like I want to go to the party or like the clubs and kind of just get a feel for it. Just because I think it would definitely be up my alley.

00:52:49:17 - 00:52:54:08

Luna

So what was it like once you started playing with other penis partners?

00:52:54:10 - 00:53:11:06

Zach

So when we first started, we went to this bar and I met this guy and he was just coming on to me way too strong. I guess it was a turn off because at first I was like, this guy is good looking. I'm gonna check up, see what's up. But then he just came on too strong and was way too interested.

00:53:11:06 - 00:53:51:09

Zach

So I was like, not interested at all. But then later on I started chatting with this guy and really cool guy, like he's like my type to a tee of feminine top energy. And he was really the first experience I had with the man that I actually wanted to happen, you know? Cool. So that's definitely been fun. I mean, like just learning everything at this age is like, definitely interesting because there's stuff I've never done until very recently, like given a blowjob or like just had sex with the guy, stuff like that, you know, it's like insane.

00:53:51:09 - 00:54:00:15

Zach

Like, I definitely love giving oral to men and women. Like I was saying something about it. I'm not sure. Like I said, just as close as possible you can to the of the person.

00:54:00:21 - 00:54:03:20

Luna

Absolutely. Is that when you started getting to.

00:54:03:22 - 00:54:19:22

Zach

Know my what my wife and I do it. We have under the bed restraints. You know, you just sit under the mattress and they have the straps that cuffed to your hands and legs. So we use that pretty often. Fuck yeah. I've never tried that with the same sex partner. Just been my wife, I think.

00:54:20:03 - 00:54:23:19

Luna

Would you want to or is that something that comes with deeper trust for you?

00:54:23:21 - 00:54:50:01

Zach

I think it would have to be a deeper trust, but I think that could come with the person that I've known. You know, for a while, some of the stuff that I've found that I enjoy is like oral, like I said. And then something I never thought of is like shared masturbation, I guess you would call it, where it's like someone is using their hand to masturbate you both like at the same time, like on each other.

00:54:50:01 - 00:54:56:13

Zach

And that's definitely very like close feeling in like hot. I don't know how else to put it.

00:54:56:15 - 00:55:10:06

Luna

Where, like, they're masturbating themselves and you, or you're touching them and they're touching you. Or are they? I've got a new vision of my brain of like, you're sandwiched together and there's two cocks together and there's one hand making it. I don't know if that's it. Yeah.

00:55:10:06 - 00:55:12:16

Zach

What you just said is exactly how it's done.

00:55:12:18 - 00:55:22:13

Luna

That's so hot. I wonder if there's another name for that, doesn't I? Okay, because it is different for me. Okay. Shared cock jerk off double cock. Same.

00:55:22:13 - 00:55:31:06

Zach

I never even thought about it until it happened in it. It feels like insane. It's got skin, so it feels like you're almost like fucking someone or something like that.

00:55:31:12 - 00:55:51:21

Luna

That is so cool. Especially because I think about I'm really turned on by variety. If you guys haven't figured out, I love the idea to of cocks that look the same, cocks that look different, like the just the different physical experiences that could come from that. That's so cool. What are you doing while that happened? Like, are you watching or are you just like receiving it?

00:55:51:21 - 00:55:54:22

Luna

And have you been the giver of that or would you want to be?

00:55:55:00 - 00:56:18:10

Zach

I haven't been the giver, but I would definitely be down. Mainly I've been the less dominant submissive person with same sex partners, but I would definitely be interested in being more dominant. But with that situation, I'm just basically laying there in there on top and there kind of just going to town, you know, it's like I think I'm more submissive because with women I'm more dominant.

00:56:18:10 - 00:56:21:13

Zach

So it's nice to kind of like just be in that space.

00:56:21:15 - 00:56:43:00

Luna

Amazing. I really want to make like a video in slowmo of that happening. And maybe the top is doing like orgasm control of the bottom. And because I'm thinking of making this for a video, it does have a climax. And it's not about coming together, but it would be really cool to see both cocks like come together. That would be so hot.

00:56:43:01 - 00:56:53:00

Zach

Yeah, we were definitely it was like almost on sync takes him a little bit longer. So it's kind of cool when he can like right after. So I was like, this is a good experience.

00:56:53:00 - 00:56:59:05

Luna

Oh my God, that's so cool. Who would you ever want a threesome or more awesome with penis owners?

00:56:59:10 - 00:57:08:10

Zach

I think that would be pretty great. I don't know how it will work logistically. I feel like that's a lot of like sensations that I would barely be able to make it happen.

00:57:08:13 - 00:57:18:13

Luna

Maybe the first couple of times you are the bottom to a couple of top family energy types, and then you don't have to worry about figuring it out. All you have to do is show up and receive.

00:57:18:15 - 00:57:40:04

Zach

That would be pretty lit. I would definitely enjoy that, but I think I would also enjoy being dominant in a position I just haven't had the chance to like. Really try. Like, I'm new to it. I have time to grow and I think I definitely would be interested in like a threesome with my wife or group sex or more than just men.

00:57:40:04 - 00:57:44:13

Zach

Men or men. Women, you know, like everybody. I think that'd be cool. Yeah.

00:57:44:15 - 00:57:58:10

Luna

Have you talked about if you might be interested in, like, straight up swinging together like a two on two where you're sharing each other, but maybe not even engaging with the same genital partner yet? I'm just in fantasy mode now.

00:57:58:12 - 00:58:15:12

Zach

We've discussed it, but that's not really something that is super up our alley for some reason. I'm not entirely sure why we like to have connections with people. That's why the poly works better, because we have like these friends that we can hang out with, but also make out with. You know, it's more than just a fuck buddy.

00:58:15:12 - 00:58:38:15

Zach

It's like a friend. You're making a friend that you can be whatever with, you know, we call it kitchen table poly because basically the thought behind it is, I know who she's with, she knows who I'm with. And we could all share meals together at a table. But let's talk behind it. We can all hang out. And I think it definitely boils down to us wanting more friends.

00:58:38:17 - 00:58:43:22

Zach

We just want to be more social and have friends, and it's good to have a bunch of people.

00:58:44:00 - 00:58:50:19

Luna

Totally. What else have you been enjoying or want to enjoy that you haven't enjoyed yet? Sex wise.

00:58:50:21 - 00:59:10:01

Zach

I definitely am interested in like more than two people, like group sex or threesome. Sex parties and sex clubs definitely sound interesting to me. I think that's about it. That I would be like interested in trying. Like I think at sex clubs are like Bdsm club. I would definitely be interested in trying more, maybe like a dominatrix or something.

00:59:10:01 - 00:59:11:18

Zach

I think that'd be pretty awesome. Yeah.

00:59:11:19 - 00:59:19:14

Luna

What kind of sensations, kink wise, have you not yet experienced or maybe want to experience more of?

00:59:19:16 - 00:59:28:12

Zach

I think I would try to experience more impact play like on myself. More bondage, probably more pegging too, because that's always fun. Cool.

00:59:28:14 - 00:59:30:13

Luna

Oh, do you have a favorite pink size?

00:59:30:15 - 00:59:51:07

Zach

Recently we just got up to a pretty decent size, so that was pretty cool. I think we found the way that works best for me just helps me relax. We like use a small one that has a vibrating function in it until I'm like in the zone. And then we'll go up a size and we'll go up another size.

00:59:51:07 - 01:00:12:21

Zach

If I just get in that zone, I can take any size that I want as long as I'm like relaxed and in the zone. And my wife is phenomenal at it, I don't know why or if it's just like our connection and my relaxed ness, but she's the only one that's ever made me orgasm just off anal alone.

01:00:12:23 - 01:00:14:01

Zach

Wow.

01:00:14:03 - 01:00:18:16

Luna

That is so hot. And congratulations.

01:00:18:18 - 01:00:39:04

Zach

Yeah, I definitely never thought it would happen that half the time you don't even know if you've orgasm or not, because it's just like a lot on your body. There's so many, like, waves and sensations that you're not sure. And then you look down, you're like, oh, I can. That's probably another one of my favorite feelings just because it's so much at once.

01:00:39:07 - 01:00:39:14

Zach

Yeah.

01:00:39:20 - 01:00:44:06

Luna

I don't know how big your wife's hands are, but like, are you curious at all about multiple fingers and or fisting?

01:00:44:08 - 01:00:59:14

Zach

Maybe. Sometimes fisting looks scary to me, but totally. I think it'd be interesting to at least try like the stepping stone to it, which I guess would be multiple fingers. Yeah, yeah, but fisting looks scary to me. I'm not sure why, I guess I know why because someone's putting a fist in my ass, but.

01:00:59:16 - 01:01:14:23

Luna

Cutting it sounds really scary. And I also, you know, even playing with slightly larger plugs and stuff on my own, which is how I build trust with my own body. Like I had one that was like, maybe that like, this was the one that I was on the phone with my former master and like, I finally got it in on my own.

01:01:14:23 - 01:01:25:07

Luna

And I was like, proud but scared, you know, because there's so much also like shaming sex negative stuff about, like, you're gonna stretch out your asshole, but it's like the sphincter. It's actually made to be very elastic.

01:01:25:07 - 01:01:25:19

Zach

It'll go back.

01:01:25:19 - 01:01:27:08

Luna

For your whole life. Yeah.

01:01:27:10 - 01:01:46:10

Zach

That's something I definitely want to try that I haven't tried, but plugs, they scare me. I think it's because I've talked to my wife because most of them have that, like, small and that I feel like I would absolutely suck in, you know, and it would get stuck in there. So I think if I found one with like a wider base, I'd be more comfortable with.

01:01:46:11 - 01:02:04:03

Luna

Anything that has like the T shape, like at the end of it, it's not going to go in the small ones. I might have a scary experience with one of the I mean, it's still my go to birthday butt plug, but like if you got a T, it's not going to go in. So in general, then what would you say your hopes for your sex life going forward are.

01:02:04:05 - 01:02:15:14

Zach

To just have more of it and more of it often I would say anyone involved, my wife, more partners, anything, more group stuff, maybe more threesomes. Yeah.

01:02:15:16 - 01:02:20:17

Luna

Wait, you mentioned blood earlier, and I just want to close that loop.

01:02:20:18 - 01:02:30:22

Zach

Yeah. So my wife and I were both kind of interested in blood playing, so we just did it. We tried it. I let her do it on me, and she seemed to like it.

01:02:30:22 - 01:02:32:07

Luna

And what did you do?

01:02:32:09 - 01:02:33:03

Zach

Just a knife.

01:02:33:20 - 01:02:35:08

Luna

Like just a knife.

01:02:36:07 - 01:03:01:00

Zach

Nothing crazy. Just like little like marks, you know? Not like even super hard. But something about it is pretty interesting. Like when you associate it with, like, a sexual kind of feeling. It does feel good in a weird way. Yeah. I haven't tried it on my wife personally, but I think she would want to try. She's a little bit of a soft person, so she's not into like all that impact play and stuff like that.

01:03:01:00 - 01:03:19:14

Zach

Unless it's like under very certain circumstances, like if she's very turned on. Yeah. And she's in the mindset for it, she'll love it. She was like really in the choking when we first started dating. And now she's much like softer and like, stuff that's not so harsh, you know?

01:03:19:16 - 01:03:25:19

Luna

Would you say it's more of a nurturing than a no intense, dominating experience?

01:03:25:21 - 01:03:29:18

Zach

Yeah, I would definitely say that unless under the right circumstances, then she's into it.

01:03:29:19 - 01:03:31:05

Luna

Totally, I get that.

01:03:31:11 - 01:03:42:21

Zach

But me in my mind, I'm in. No, whatever. It doesn't matter what level limit I can get to the level you need. So it's kind of cool to be able to fluctuate. Yeah.

01:03:42:23 - 01:03:58:06

Luna

I love that. I think responsive desire is so hot, especially when it's actually responsive. Like not hiding our actual desires because, oh, it's what they want. But like for myself personally, it's such a gift to be like, you're into that.

01:03:58:09 - 01:03:59:09

Zach

Oh.

01:03:59:11 - 01:04:18:12

Luna

That is hot because I'm attracted to you. And now maybe I have a new thing that's opening up, and who knows how long it'll last. Maybe it'll only last for that part. I don't, you know, I've had some people in my life be like, well, you're just like, morphing yourself for other people. And I'm like, I'm consciously exploring.

01:04:18:12 - 01:04:27:13

Luna

I'm still my own person and I want to try stuff like, we're always morphing ourselves for other people, whether we admit to it. And I like,

01:04:27:15 - 01:04:44:02

Zach

That's how I feel that I never heard about it. Put like that responsive design. I think that's definitely how I operate, though. Yeah, because if I'm on my own, I would have thought, well, that sounds weird, but then if someone was like, hey, I'm kind of into this, we should try. I'm like, yeah, I mean, yeah, that does sound interesting.

01:04:44:04 - 01:05:05:19

Zach

Kind of like one of my same sex partners was mentioning that he's into pitch play, and I never even thought about it until then. I was like, yeah, I would do it. That sounds pretty interesting, you know? Yeah, I have kinks, but I'm definitely more, off of the person. Like, I vibe with the person and then what they want becomes what I want.

01:05:05:21 - 01:05:13:03

Zach

It's how I am with friends too. Like, I match vibes in. If your vibes off, I'm going to be off. This is how I am.

01:05:13:05 - 01:05:18:19

Luna

I really relate to that. Yeah, I'm like, my kink is exploring other people's kinks and.

01:05:18:21 - 01:05:21:07

Zach

Sex like, what's your kink?

01:05:21:12 - 01:05:31:00

Luna

Yeah, okay, if you could go back in time and give younger you a piece of sex advice, what age or ages would you pick and what would you say?

01:05:31:01 - 01:05:53:19

Zach

Maybe just around those times when I was kind of self exploring and telling myself that I don't have to be embarrassed about what I was feeling and that I should try to also not just stick with women, that I should try to explore outside because I had many years missed where I could have maybe explored seeing six inches at a young age.

01:05:53:21 - 01:05:57:23

Luna

Like, yeah, Zach, thank you so much for being a guest on Sex Stories.

01:05:58:01 - 01:05:59:05

Zach

Thank you for having me.

01:05:59:07 - 01:06:01:19

Luna

Do you have a sex question you'd like to ask me?

01:06:01:21 - 01:06:06:06

Zach

What was something that you really wanted to try but ended up not liking?

01:06:06:10 - 01:06:08:07

Luna

Oh, not liking? Let me think.